On 09-21-20 21:35, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'd like to leave Melbourne, but if so, it will likely be to somewhere overseas. I did want many years ago to want to move to a town like Bendigo, but it might be too much of a culture shock for me being so
used to going to the city. I used to travel to the city centre at
least two times a week, last few years, rarely so.
I'm stuck between wanting the best opportunities for my kids, but not really wanting to leave them to grow up here.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-21-20 21:35, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'd like to leave Melbourne, but if so, it will likely be to somewhere overseas. I did want many years ago to want to move to a town like Bendigo, but it might be too much of a culture shock for me being so
used to going to the city. I used to travel to the city centre at
least two times a week, last few years, rarely so.
Actually, Bendigo isn't a bad balance. All of the services are still there, but the pace of life is more sensible, and people actually talk
to each other. I did have the advantage of growing up in a small town,
but then again, I did adjust to living in Melbourne. And I'd have
thought going overseas would be a much bigger culture shock. :)
I'm stuck between wanting the best opportunities for my kids, but not really wanting to leave them to grow up here.
Well, the city is not necessarily the best opportunity either, and they can always move back down if they want to. :)
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
When I think of "mega cities," I think of the building in the movie Dredd, which in itself was supposed to a self contained city of 50k people, with commercial, residential, and industrial zones, and it's own built-in hospital and police and fire department.
Larry Pournelle (I think) wrote a book called Oath of Fealty, about
megacities called arcologies that popped up - think of mega
skyscrapers, completely autonomous.
I want Kowloon Walled City, but with infrastructure.
... Remove ambiguities and convert to specifics
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Megacities are going to feature in the future. There are several smart-cities in development at the moment which are going to fit the description of "megacity". Neom city in Saudi Arabia is one such city and it will be larger than NYC by the time it's fully constructed. I think with careful urban planning, megacities can be large, efficient and pleasent to live in.
If you can find some way to build passive climate control and energy
generation and food production into a megacity, you'd have the things
science fiction is written about.
Geothermal heat/power? My first thought is Iceland, but you've got
long periods of darkness, so solar/plant growth would be tough.
... Towards the insignificant
On 09-22-20 22:12, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was thinking primarily of education, universities and other out of school curricula. Not necessarily sports, but libraries, book clubs, exhibitions, music, etc.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-22-20 22:12, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was thinking primarily of education, universities and other out of school curricula. Not necessarily sports, but libraries, book clubs, exhibitions, music, etc.
Depends what you're looking for, but there's a surprising amount out
here, and it's not really that far on the train, given how slow it is getting around Melbourne. 2 hours and you're in town, no fuss. :)
Universities, depends what course (we have a uni as well - La Trobe),
but yeah they may need to be in Melbourne for those few years. It all depends. :)
On 23 Sep 2020, Moondog said the following...
Autonomy is a great job per but so is being recognized if you're doing good and could do more.
And therein lies the problem. Great work is usually rewarded with more work
Jay
... A hard day's work never goes unpunished
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Warpslide to Moondog on Wed Sep 23 2020 02:49 pm
On 23 Sep 2020, Moondog said the following...
Autonomy is a great job per but so is being recognized if you're
doing good and could do more.
And therein lies the problem. Great work is usually rewarded with
more work
Jay
... A hard day's work never goes unpunished
Hopefully you work somewhere that gives raises as recognition, or recognizes they can lose you if they continue to pay you at entry level pay.
Hopefully you work somewhere that gives raises as recognition, or recognizes they can lose you if they continue to pay you at entry level pay.
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get
the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
On 09-23-20 23:38, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My children will decide on the course, IF they decide to go that is.
Who knows, I just feel it my obligation to make sure as many
opportunities are available as possible.
On 09-23-20 23:38, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My children will decide on the course, IF they decide to go that is.
Who knows, I just feel it my obligation to make sure as many
opportunities are available as possible.
I was curious if they had any ideas of what they might like to do, or
is it still a bit early? :)
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
single job until retirement. Imagine getting a job, then HR finds a spot in the building your office is at, so you can come home at lunch, or see your kids perform recitals at school without having to leave the main campus. That would fit inside a Henry Ford dream.
I was a Novell admin back in the day. I went to their user group
meetings hosted by them. Their campus in San Jose had a cafeteria,
hair salon, day care, shoe repair, dry cleaning, coffee shop and a
little general store. I was impressed with the idea of being able to
take your kid to day care, break them out and have lunch with them.
The cafeteria had booster seats.
... "I speak to machines with the voice of Humanity..."
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Sep 24 2020 12:22 am
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
For the most part, it seems there is no real loyalty between companies
and their employees anymore. Companies will go through
re-organizations or go out of business, etc. and lay off a bunch of employees. People will also move to other companies for better pay,
etc.. Some states (like mine) have "at-will" employement, meaning
either the company or the employee can terminate their employement at
any time for any (or no) reason.
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they
get the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
Probably while big companys have so much money to throw around except their workers.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Sep 24 2020 12:22 am
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they
get the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
For the most part, it seems there is no real loyalty between companies and their employees anymore. Companies will go through re-organizations or go out of business, etc. and lay off a bunch of employees. People will also move to other companies for better pay, etc.. Some states (like mine) have "at-will" employement, meaning either the company or the employee can terminate their employement at any time for any (or no) reason.
Nightfox
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-23-20 23:38, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My children will decide on the course, IF they decide to go that is.
Who knows, I just feel it my obligation to make sure as many
opportunities are available as possible.
I was curious if they had any ideas of what they might like to do, or
is it still a bit early? :)
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-24-20 00:59, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
How big are cities supposed to get? 50 million? 100 million? Surely
there is a limit to growth.
Trantor in Asimov's Foundation?
Trantor was the political capital of the Galactic Empire in the books,
and was literally a planet encased by a city.
Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
... Vk3jed scribbled to Dennisk in the sand ...
On 09-23-20 23:38, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My children will decide on the course, IF they decide to go that is.
Who knows, I just feel it my obligation to make sure as many
opportunities are available as possible.
I was curious if they had any ideas of what they might like to do, or
is it still a bit early? :)
Figuring out what you want early in life can be a great asset.
-cr1mson
Jon Justvig wrote to Nightfox <=-
... Nightfox scribbled to MRO in the sand ...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Sep 24 2020 12:22 am
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
For the most part, it seems there is no real loyalty between companies
and their employees anymore. Companies will go through
re-organizations or go out of business, etc. and lay off a bunch of employees. People will also move to other companies for better pay,
etc.. Some states (like mine) have "at-will" employement, meaning
either the company or the employee can terminate their employement at
any time for any (or no) reason.
That really sucks. People just don't have compassion for each other
like they used to.
-cr1mson
On 09-24-20 07:16, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was curious if they had any ideas of what they might like to do, or
is it still a bit early? :)
Figuring out what you want early in life can be a great asset.
On 09-25-20 04:03, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Trantor was the political capital of the Galactic Empire in the books,
and was literally a planet encased by a city.
Yes, a planet dedicated to administration, while the ones on the edge
of the galaxy where in the boondocks, the hicks. I think a lot of
science fiction canon and tropes was established when we had less of an understanding of biology, of ecology and where we hadn't observed the result of technological progress. We didn't understand the complex interplay between environment and organism, and because we weren't seriously planning on how to travel through space, the limitations
weren't that well known.
I think the more we've learned, the more we've learned how HARD such problems are.
On 09-25-20 03:43, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My older daughter, who is 8 has said Police Officer or Teacher.
Scientist I think has also come up once or twice.
My younger daughter, I don't know, she's only 5 so probably hasn't
given it thought.
Figuring out what you want early in life can be a great asset.
Works for some, didn't work for me, still doesn't. :/
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basically say that this or that is what makes a good company, they assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have some irrelevant employee surveys, and you can paint a
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want.
matters is how the HR deparment appear to their superiors and to the rest the HR industry.
Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
... Vk3jed scribbled to Dennisk in the sand ...
On 09-23-20 23:38, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My children will decide on the course, IF they decide to go that is.
Who knows, I just feel it my obligation to make sure as many
opportunities are available as possible.
I was curious if they had any ideas of what they might like to do, or
is it still a bit early? :)
Figuring out what you want early in life can be a great asset.
-cr1mson
Yeah, but knowing I wanted to be an "International Stud Muffin" early
on wasn't the advantage you might think it would have been.
Jon Justvig wrote to Nightfox <=-
... Nightfox scribbled to MRO in the sand ...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Sep 24 2020 12:22 am
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get the most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
For the most part, it seems there is no real loyalty between companies
and their employees anymore. Companies will go through
re-organizations or go out of business, etc. and lay off a bunch of employees. People will also move to other companies for better pay,
etc.. Some states (like mine) have "at-will" employement, meaning
either the company or the employee can terminate their employement at
any time for any (or no) reason.
That really sucks. People just don't have compassion for each other
like they used to.
-cr1mson
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basically say that this or that is what makes a good company, they
assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have some irrelevant employee surveys, and you can
paint a great picture about how good your work culture is, while simultaneously having a high staff turnover. What matters is how the
HR deparment appear to their superiors and to the rest of the HR
industry.
On 09-24-20 07:16, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was curious if they had any ideas of what they might like to do, or
is it still a bit early? :)
Figuring out what you want early in life can be a great asset.
Works for some, didn't work for me, still doesn't. :/
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Jon Justvig on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:19 am
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basically say that this or that is what makes a good company, they assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have some irrelevant employee surveys, and you can paint a
HR always used to grind my gears. I have yet to meet an HR professional who isn't a kniving passive agressive example of humanity. ---
MRO wrote to Underminer <=-
I say this as a fellow employer: if you can't trust your employees to give you an honest day's work either you have the wrong people, or you are falling short on your team building and motivation skills. Feeling watched all the time tends to LOWER productivity over time in my experiences.
i've had a lot of jobs over the years. people need to be watched.
Hmmmm.... Have you worked at anything other than fast food
chains?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Jon Justvig on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:19 am
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basically say that this or that is what makes a good
company, they assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have some irrelev
employee surveys, and you can paint a
HR always used to grind my gears. I have yet to meet an HR professional who isn't a kniving passive agressive example of
humanity.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-25-20 04:03, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Trantor was the political capital of the Galactic Empire in the books,
and was literally a planet encased by a city.
Yes, a planet dedicated to administration, while the ones on the edge
Yep, exactly
of the galaxy where in the boondocks, the hicks. I think a lot of
science fiction canon and tropes was established when we had less of an understanding of biology, of ecology and where we hadn't observed the result of technological progress. We didn't understand the complex interplay between environment and organism, and because we weren't seriously planning on how to travel through space, the limitations
weren't that well known.
True. Most science fiction invented some form of ficticious FTL
travel. In Foundation, it was by jumping "through" the Universe using "hyperspace", where the Universe exists as a point, but the accuracy of such jumps is limited by gravitational and other influences, and jumps require complex calculations to achieve. Of course, other SF uses warp drive and various forms of hyperspace".
One notable exception is Arthur C Clarke, who didn't invent any FTL
travel and all of his deep space novels took place at sublight speeds, sometimes with Relativistic effects, as the speeds on longer journeys reached a significant proportion of the speed of light (e.g. the Rama series, The Songs of Distant Earth).
I think the more we've learned, the more we've learned how HARD such problems are.
True! :)
Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Jon Justvig on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:19 am
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basically say that this or that is what makes a good company, they assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have some irrelevant employee surveys, and you can paint a
HR always used to grind my gears. I have yet to meet an HR professional who isn't a kniving passive agressive example of humanity. ---
Underminer - The Undermine BBS
= Synchronet = The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Warpslide wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 25 Sep 2020, Dennisk said the following...
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want.
matters is how the HR deparment appear to their superiors and to the rest the HR industry.
Exactly this. My last job got swallowed by a larger company and introduced this new program where we had to all set goals and
objectives for ourselves.
We basically had to plan our what we wanted to accomplish over the next
12 months and our yearly raise (sorry, our "total rewards merit
increase" *rolls eyes*) depended on how well we did against what we
stated a year ago.
To make it even more foo foo & feel good each of our goals had to fall
in line with the company's "core values". So you can't just say you
want to show up & do the job you were hired to do. You had to say something like "My main objective for our ownership core value is to
<fill in the blank here>" or "I'd best like to demonstrate our
integrity core value by <fill in the blank here>"
Everyone I talk to at work, including my manger, hates this program and finds it a waste of time. But nobody can get a yearly cost of living increase (or more) unless they do this.
I do get the value of charting your course every now & then and also reflecting on your career from time to time. This on the other hand
seems like way too many HR people got together in a room and sang
kumbaya.
Jay
Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / After
By: Vk3jed to Dennisk on Thu Sep 24 2020 07:52 pm
Trantor in Asimov's Foundation?
Trantor was the political capital of the Galactic Empire in the books, and was literally a planet encased by a city.
I remember reading through the first Foundation book. It's very well written but a total slog to get through. I did like the premise of a controlled civilisational collapse to ensure a quicker, less painful recovery.
On 09-25-20 14:01, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yup, I'm still waiting to feel like an adult so I can decide what I
want to be when I grow up. I turned 40 this year...
On 09-26-20 02:03, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Works for some, didn't work for me, still doesn't. :/
Also meant by that, applying yourself towards what you want to do.
On 09-26-20 09:39, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Arthur C Clarke is my favourite science fiction writer. He presents a very plausible science fiction world. Advanced technology played a
small role in Songs of a Distant Earth, as it was in perhaps my
favourite novel of all, Dune.
In Dune, they relied on behavioral adaptations, culture, displine,
rather than magical technology. We keep thinking of progress as being
one of material advacement, faster computers, bigger cities, etc, but these criteria, this heirarchy of values is particular to our culture. Thalassa, where Songs of a Distant Earth was based, was very unlike Trantor. I think we need to keep an open mind on what progress is, on what the future looks like. Having preconceived notions that it must involve mega-cities, this or that social change, flying cars, whatever,
is not productive. Who know what is best for us, we can only discover
it, and what it may be may be contrary to what we though. And thats
fine. Maybe the nations of the future will be in some way the opposite
of where we thought things were heading, and should end, and we may be pleasantly surprised.
Jon Justvig wrote to Nightfox <=-
... Nightfox scribbled to MRO in the sand ...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Sep 24 2020 12:22 am
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get t most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
For the most part, it seems there is no real loyalty between companies and their employees anymore. Companies will go through re-organizations or go out of business, etc. and lay off a bunch of employees. People will also move to other companies for better pay, etc.. Some states (like mine) have "at-will" employement, meaning either the company or the employee can terminate their employement at any time for any (or no) reason.
That really sucks. People just don't have compassion for each other like they used to.
-cr1mson
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basicall say that this or that is what makes a good company, they assert this is true then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have som irrelevant employee surveys, and you can paint a great picture about how goo your work culture is, while simultaneously having a high staff turnover. Wh matters is how the HR deparment appear to their superiors and to the rest of the HR industry.
On 09-26-20 02:03, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Works for some, didn't work for me, still doesn't. :/
Also meant by that, applying yourself towards what you want to do.
That still assumes one can identify what they want to do.
May I join in the bashing against HR?
What I hate is they are always telling you that they need to hear your ideas, that X or Y are very important, but when you bring some idea for achieving X or Y they treat you as a leper.
Because if they take your idea, they will have to implement it, and
that means working and expenses, and those things are bad news.
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
Trantor in Asimov's Foundation?
Trantor was the political capital of the Galactic Empire in the books, and was literally a planet encased by a city.
I remember reading through the first Foundation book. It's very well written but a total slog to get through. I did like the premise of a controlled civilisational collapse to ensure a quicker, less painful recovery.
I found it a decent read. The next book, Foundation and Empire
is better. I'm yet to read the third, but its next on my reading
list.
I found it a decent read. The next book, Foundation and Empire is better. I'm yet to read the third, but its next on my reading list.
What was interesting, is the idea that large societies develop and progress according to not well understood mechanics. That the sum collection of human activity is actually predictable, and will follow as if by laws of nature. This I think isn't a fanciful plot device, but perhaps quite close to how our actual large scale human socities work. That is, perhaps must of what will happen in our future is going to be based not on our choices, but emergent forced beyond our control.
I do get the value of charting your course every now & then and also reflecting on your career from time to time. This on the other hand seems like way too many HR people got together in a room and sang kumbaya.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Jon Justvig on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:19 am
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR
basically say that this or that is what makes a good company, they
assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it,
they are successful. Have some irrelevant employee surveys, and you
can paint a
HR always used to grind my gears. I have yet to meet an HR professional who isn't a kniving passive agressive example of humanity.
What I hate is they are always telling you that they need to hear your ideas, that X or Y are very important, but when you bring some idea for achieving X or Y they treat you as a leper.
Because if they take your idea, they will have to implement it, and that means working and expenses, and those things are bad news.
Wait until you get "Political" ones who think their job is to send company wide emails about racial and social justice issues. Companies will fire people who produce value before they get rid of the HR excess baggage.
The Foundation Trilogy is very near the top of my all-time SciFi
favorites list. Truly outstanding. There are some additional
books (four, I believe) that come after the Trilogy, but they are fluff/filler crap that isn't worth bothering with.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-26-20 09:39, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Arthur C Clarke is my favourite science fiction writer. He presents a very plausible science fiction world. Advanced technology played a
small role in Songs of a Distant Earth, as it was in perhaps my
Yes, Arthur C Clarke tried to keep his technological developments plausible - and at least one example is alive and well in reality today
- the geostationary communications satellite. I loved Songs of a
Distant Earth, another novel I have in my collection.
favourite novel of all, Dune.
In Dune, they relied on behavioral adaptations, culture, displine,
rather than magical technology. We keep thinking of progress as being
one of material advacement, faster computers, bigger cities, etc, but these criteria, this heirarchy of values is particular to our culture. Thalassa, where Songs of a Distant Earth was based, was very unlike Trantor. I think we need to keep an open mind on what progress is, on what the future looks like. Having preconceived notions that it must involve mega-cities, this or that social change, flying cars, whatever,
is not productive. Who know what is best for us, we can only discover
it, and what it may be may be contrary to what we though. And thats
fine. Maybe the nations of the future will be in some way the opposite
of where we thought things were heading, and should end, and we may be pleasantly surprised.
Yes, I think we're currently heading down the wrong road, and something counterintuitive might be a better way for society to go. I can't say what, but it's likely to come out of left field. ;) While I do like my tech, on a deeper level, I'm more interested in looking at the human factors, and the values that we hold deep within.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Jon Justvig on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:19 am
Jon Justvig wrote to Nightfox <=-
... Nightfox scribbled to MRO in the sand ...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Sep 24 2020 12:22 am
i dont think places give a shit about their workers anymore. they get t most out of you for the smallest amount of pay.
For the most part, it seems there is no real loyalty between companies and their employees anymore. Companies will go through re-organizations or go out of business, etc. and lay off a bunch of employees. People will also move to other companies for better pay, etc.. Some states (like mine) have "at-will" employement, meaning either the company or the employee can terminate their employement at any time for any (or no) reason.
That really sucks. People just don't have compassion for each other like they used to.
-cr1mson
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR basicall say that this or that is what makes a good company, they assert this is true then say because they are working towards it, they are successful. Have som irrelevant employee surveys, and you can paint a great picture about how goo your work culture is, while simultaneously having a high staff turnover. Wh matters is how the HR deparment appear to their superiors and to the rest of the HR industry.
It used to be a trend in IT where if the pay was adequate, perks such
as special projects or given more autonomy held more value. As long as wages were competitive with other companies, HR and managers were blind
to what employees valued outside of a paycheck. Autonomy helps teach
self motivation, while projects offer a change in the daily routine and
an opportunity to learn something new, whether it's project planning or skills related to the actual project work.
Gamgee wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
Trantor in Asimov's Foundation?
Trantor was the political capital of the Galactic Empire in the books, and was literally a planet encased by a city.
I remember reading through the first Foundation book. It's very well written but a total slog to get through. I did like the premise of a controlled civilisational collapse to ensure a quicker, less painful recovery.
I found it a decent read. The next book, Foundation and Empire
is better. I'm yet to read the third, but its next on my reading
list.
The Foundation Trilogy is very near the top of my all-time SciFi
favorites list. Truly outstanding. There are some additional
books (four, I believe) that come after the Trilogy, but they are fluff/filler crap that isn't worth bothering with.
MRO wrote to Underminer <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Underminer to Dennisk on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:53 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Jon Justvig on Fri Sep 25 2020 04:19 am
Most companies have skewed perspectives on what employees want. HR
basically say that this or that is what makes a good company, they
assert this is true, then say because they are working towards it,
they are successful. Have some irrelevant employee surveys, and you
can paint a
HR always used to grind my gears. I have yet to meet an HR professional who isn't a kniving passive agressive example of humanity.
my experience is people who get into HR positions want to have power
over other people and intimidate them. ---
To be honest, many HR people now are millenials who have no clue about
the human condition, except from some shallow points they took from a
TED talk. There is some viral talk, some popular corporate program, and they go with that. Then next year, its something else, the year after, some other buzzword or marketable culture.
The Foundation Trilogy is very near the top of my all-time SciFi
favorites list. Truly outstanding. There are some additional
books (four, I believe) that come after the Trilogy, but they are
fluff/filler crap that isn't worth bothering with.
OK, I have the first three or four, so I guess I'm not
missing much in not having the rest. I'm not a
completionists with regards to book. For example, as much
as I like Dune (probably my favourite Sci-Fi book), I'm
happy to stop at God Emperor of Dune, maybe stop after
Frank Herbert's 6th book. I've heard the other books
aren't that great, and I think that reading poor
continuations, prequels and sequels, can dampen the memory
of the original.
On 09-26-20 08:23, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
That still assumes one can identify what they want to do.
You've got a valid point. Perhaps we should not only figure out what
we want to do, but to also do everything to touch all the bases to accomplish that goal. Make a list of things to do, if it doesn't get
done on time, don't forget to get it done that day.
I had no idea back then when I was to write a term paper and speak in front of a class in high school, all I could think of was music. At
the time I was just amazed at having an electric guitar and playing
music. At the time it was fun, but perhaps it was the wrong avenue I should have went. Not saying guitars are bad, some are more musically in-tune (no pun intended). I've always enjoyed computers, much like
all of us do. I have an interest in business in computers.
On 09-13-20 18:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I think computing is a good example of where things have gone wrong, in particular software. There is the constant reinventing of the wheel,
the "need" to create new frameworks, frameworks within frameworks, to obsolete everything. A lot, a LOT of development is done, yet the end result is lacking. My office computer today makes me virtually no more
productive than the one I used in 2003 did. On a technical level, it
is far superior, yet the APPLICATION of it is poor. The poor way in
which it manages data, the still very limited ways in which I can use
it, the convoluted shared drive system which is buggy. It's basically
the same paradigm as the 90's, but 1000x more resource intensive.
A lot of progress is like this. It's like we are doing things a bad, convoluted and unsustainable way, but instead of changing how we do things, we simply make more complex tools to support dead-end
processes.
On 09-26-20 07:47, Gamgee wrote to Dennisk <=-
The Foundation Trilogy is very near the top of my all-time SciFi
favorites list. Truly outstanding. There are some additional
books (four, I believe) that come after the Trilogy, but they are fluff/filler crap that isn't worth bothering with.
On 09-26-20 12:50, Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Humans are quite predictable. As a collective, it's quite easy to see
from an analytical standpoint, what we'll do next. Our needs dictate
our behaviour. Individuals are trickier to read, however the human race
as a whole and its expansion/contraction will be dictated by the unseen laws of nature.
On 09-26-20 15:23, Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
Well, the Prequels Asimov himself wrote were nice.
What I can't stand are the unoficial sequels other authors wrote. So
much puking.
Dennisk wrote to Gamgee <=-
The Foundation Trilogy is very near the top of my all-time SciFi
favorites list. Truly outstanding. There are some additional
books (four, I believe) that come after the Trilogy, but they are fluff/filler crap that isn't worth bothering with.
OK, I have the first three or four, so I guess I'm not missing
much in not having the rest. I'm not a completionists with
regards to book. For example, as much as I like Dune (probably my favourite Sci-Fi book), I'm happy to stop at God Emperor of Dune,
maybe stop after Frank Herbert's 6th book. I've heard the other
books aren't that great, and I think that reading poor
continuations, prequels and sequels, can dampen the memory of the original.
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
Well, the Prequels Asimov himself wrote were nice.
What I can-'t stand are the unoficial sequels other authors wrote. So
much puking.
Dennisk wrote to MRO <=-
Yeah, I find that too. At the very least, they have a very inflated
sense of self worth. As if their shitty diploma in HR and a few nights watching TED videos recommended by corporate schmucks now makes them Philosopher Kings who know how the world should head.
Dennisk wrote to MRO <=-
Yeah, I find that too. At the very least, they have a very inflated
sense of self worth. As if their shitty diploma in HR and a few
nights watching TED videos recommended by corporate schmucks now
makes them Philosopher Kings who know how the world should head.
What is it about HR people and diplomas? The last two had their state school diplomas, SHRM certification, and some schmucky in-house certificate of completion hanging on their walls like they were
laywers.
I think computing is a good example of where things have gone wrong, in particular software. There is the constant reinventing of the wheel,
the "need" to create new frameworks, frameworks within frameworks, to obsolete everything. A lot, a LOT of development is done, yet the end
result is lacking. My office computer today makes me virtually no more productive than the one I used in 2003 did. On a technical level, it is
far superior, yet the APPLICATION of it is poor. The poor way in which
it manages data, the still very limited ways in which I can use it, the convoluted shared drive system which is buggy. It's basically the same paradigm as the 90's, but 1000x more resource intensive.
That's because of money. You can't just leave things "as is". People would be out of jobs. Companies like Adobe would fold. I love Windows 7. But now it's Defunked. Why? I still use it. I still use Word 2007. I refuse to play the software game.
That's because of money. You can't just leave things "as is". People would out of jobs. Companies like Adobe would fold. I love Windows 7. But now it's Defunked. Why? I still use it. I still use Word 2007. I refuse to play the software game.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-13-20 18:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I think computing is a good example of where things have gone wrong, in particular software. There is the constant reinventing of the wheel,
the "need" to create new frameworks, frameworks within frameworks, to obsolete everything. A lot, a LOT of development is done, yet the end result is lacking. My office computer today makes me virtually no more
I'm not as close to that area, but I certainly have seen some of it.
productive than the one I used in 2003 did. On a technical level, it
is far superior, yet the APPLICATION of it is poor. The poor way in
which it manages data, the still very limited ways in which I can use
it, the convoluted shared drive system which is buggy. It's basically
the same paradigm as the 90's, but 1000x more resource intensive.
I'd agree, overall, many things are no better than back then, modern systems seem to waste a lot of processor cycles (and other resources doing... what? Even simple things like managing files are affected,
click on something and the hourglass comes up, the list of icons refreshes... Why? And it seems to take forever, sometimes even longer than that slow old (by today's standards) 386 or 486.
A lot of progress is like this. It's like we are doing things a bad, convoluted and unsustainable way, but instead of changing how we do things, we simply make more complex tools to support dead-end
processes.
Yes, and I still see the same things that pissed me off decades ago, especially in Windows, though not confined to that OS.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
I'm confident of a crash, or a series of crashes, or as James Howard Kunstler put it a Long Emergency.
He has a great podcast - check it out if you haven't already. It's
called the Kunstlercast.
He talks a lot about peak oil, but also focuses on city planning and
re-growth.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to MRO <=-
Yeah, I find that too. At the very least, they have a very inflated
sense of self worth. As if their shitty diploma in HR and a few nights watching TED videos recommended by corporate schmucks now makes them Philosopher Kings who know how the world should head.
What is it about HR people and diplomas? The last two had their state
school diplomas, SHRM certification, and some schmucky in-house
certificate of completion hanging on their walls like they were
laywers.
HusTler wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Sun Sep 13 2020 06:58 pm
I think computing is a good example of where things have gone wrong, in particular software. There is the constant reinventing of the wheel,
the "need" to create new frameworks, frameworks within frameworks, to obsolete everything. A lot, a LOT of development is done, yet the end
result is lacking. My office computer today makes me virtually no more productive than the one I used in 2003 did. On a technical level, it is
far superior, yet the APPLICATION of it is poor. The poor way in which
it manages data, the still very limited ways in which I can use it, the convoluted shared drive system which is buggy. It's basically the same paradigm as the 90's, but 1000x more resource intensive.
That's because of money. You can't just leave things "as is". People would be out of jobs. Companies like Adobe would fold. I love Windows
7. But now it's Defunked. Why? I still use it. I still use Word 2007. I refuse to play the software game.
Ogg wrote to All <=-
Hello Dennisk!
** On Sunday 13.09.20 - 20:25, dennisk wrote to Gamgee:
The Foundation Trilogy is very near the top of my all-time SciFi
favorites list. Truly outstanding. There are some additional
books (four, I believe) that come after the Trilogy, but they are
fluff/filler crap that isn't worth bothering with.
OK, I have the first three or four, so I guess I'm not
missing much in not having the rest. I'm not a
completionists with regards to book. For example, as much
as I like Dune (probably my favourite Sci-Fi book), I'm
happy to stop at God Emperor of Dune, maybe stop after
Frank Herbert's 6th book. I've heard the other books
aren't that great, and I think that reading poor
continuations, prequels and sequels, can dampen the memory
of the original.
In a prior life, I really enjoyed 2001: A Space Odyssey -
Arthur C Clarke, the description of life in space, and the
notions of AI (HAL 9000).
I could not maintain interest in the sequel 2010: Odyssey Two.
But I finished it.
I didn't get very far into 2061: Odyssey Three.
I may have only glanced at 3001: The Final Odyssey.
The sequels didn't have the same passion of exploration and
the excitement of new technologies as the first.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Andeddu <=-
Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
There is passive climate control in certain smaller future cities such
as Masdar City which, despite being situated in the UAE, is cooled by
the shape of the architecture and the layout of the streets.
Come to think of it, I've heard of houses cooled in Arizona by
running water pipes underground - they pull up the driveway, install
a circulating system of pipes underground, and the temperature
differential works both ways - radiating stored heat in winter and
cooler water when the ambient temperature is high.
Not sure how much that'd scale, though.
If goverments are going to push carbon neutrality all these innovations are going to have to be put into place otherwise we will never have a "post-carbon economy".
Most of the technology innovations we think of require massive
production and carbon usage. How much carbon and technology goes into
making a solar panel? Batteries for your electric car?
I'm petrified that my kids are going to experience a climate
collapse, a massive die-off, and we're going to move to a
post-carbon, post-oil economy whether we choose to or not. I think
the last half of the 21st century is going to make the 20th century's
changes look like baby steps.
Come to think of it, I've heard of houses cooled in Arizona by
running water pipes underground - they pull up the driveway, install
a circulating system of pipes underground, and the temperature
differential works both ways - radiating stored heat in winter and
cooler water when the ambient temperature is high.
Not sure how much that'd scale, though.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
We used to have massive employee villages/towns back when a single company would roll into the area and employ everyone in some capacity or another. With a huge number of business unable to continue due to the economic situation and Facebook, Amazon, Netflix and Google (FANG) along with Microsoft consolodating their power, we could see monolithic corporations create and support entire communities once again
Facebook built a campus in Menlo Park, and some of the original plans
called for amenities and housing. I'm not sure if they went ahead
with it, but the campus is there. It seems like something is missing,
as churn is high in tech, especially when you're starting out and the
best way to get a 30% bump is to move to a new company - and younger
workers fresh out of a college experience living "on campus" without
a house, family, and kids would be most suited to living and working
on a campus.
Living where you work and building your social circle around work
makes it difficult to move. I've worked in startups where people
worked long hours, hung out after work, dated and married co-workers,
and when they laid off 1/3 of the company (and in some cases laid off
one married partner), things got *very* ugly.
I'm imagining in your exit interview needing to discuss exiting your
job position and your housing.
... Change ambiguities to specifics
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / After
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Fri Sep 25 2020 10:35 am
Come to think of it, I've heard of houses cooled in Arizona by
running water pipes underground - they pull up the driveway, install
a circulating system of pipes underground, and the temperature
differential works both ways - radiating stored heat in winter and
cooler water when the ambient temperature is high.
Engineer talking here.
Heat radiating floors rock for a number of reasons. They provide an uniform temperature for the room - where conventional heaters give you temperature gradients withing the same room - and allow you to work with lower temperatu boilers, among other advantages.
The problem is that, as their name suggests, they work via radiation (mainly Which is great for heating, but does not work for cooling.
Think about it. If a cooling floor was really effective at cooling, you woul get condensation on the floor and people will slip an it and break their skulls. That is no bueno.
NOt that you can't have a cooling floor, but I have yet to see one that work well enough as to justify using it instead of another solution, such as a fan-coil.
--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
On 09-27-20 22:34, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
There are a few reasons for the slowness. A filebrowser might be using
a GUI toolkit that has a complicated rendering engine, that is designed
to do a lot more than just display filenames. That framework may use dependencies, many of which may have installed (And load) other depedencies because library X that is referred to for feature Y only,
also loads features A-K. Then you have all the edge cases, the code
may not be efficient, it may need to accomodate correct rendering for
some obscure language. Maybe add some polling, who knows. Web browsers are slow because every damn object is built with so, so much support,
and it has to handle web designers doing things they shouldn't be
doing. Maybe a webpage uses this framework for one widget, and that is almost an OS in itself.
Way too much complexity. The older computers did very little in comparison, so it really down to bad design, and software developers accomodating for practices and customer requirements that they
SHOULDN'T be doing.
The best analogy I can think of, is "The Homer", that car that Homers
long lost half brother Herb lets him design. Homer wants this and
that, and the engineers accomodate, creating a monstrosity.
My wife considers me a hoarder, but whenever I contemplate getting a replacement product, I always mull over the question "What do I do with the old one?". It is that which stops me, as I have an almost pathological aversion to throwing out things that work. I can afford a new phone, a new computer, but the question of what I do with the old one remains unanswered. Recycling isn't really a good solution, and I can't bear to trash the planet with waste.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
another thing that i see that's weird is everyone is putting their
certs, no matter how small in their company email signature.
hollowone wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
These people will go even more nuts with disconnected ideas about their social "network" if isolated even more from the outside world, btw.
hollowone wrote to HusTler <=-
That's because of money. You can't just leave things "as is". People would be out of jobs. Companies like Adobe would fold. I love Windows
7. But now it's Defunked. Why? I still use it. I still use Word 2007. I refuse to play the software game.
the goal.. but try to open windows 95 with Word 6.0, photoshop 3.0
and launch doom, quake and duke nukem along with Warcraft 1 and Civnet
and edit your mails in BAT.
Work like that for a month then come back to modern machine and launch w10, newest office 365 set of apps, latest photoshop, launch skyrim in
4k and civ 6
it all may be shocking as memories are always fond to colorize the
past. But not everything from the past stands the time.
Trust me. My entertainment room has 7 computers from different eras,
SNES, NES, All playstations and xbox models until the latest. There are faboulous flashes of good memories when you launch something once again after years.. But there are also moments of total bummer.
/h1
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
Synchronet Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more
than 4,000+ files
Vk3jed wrote to hollowone <=-
Some excellent points there. Would be interesting to load up an old OS and matching apps on a modern PC, and see what happens. That's if it's even possible. :)
Shortly, we're talking about completely different volumes of data today that requires different architecture to handle.
Yeah, and I'm that hiring manager who's turned off by certifications.
Give me some husker who's shown a track record of showing initiative
and picking up whatever needs to be taken care of as department needs change and learning as he/she goes.
Too many times I'd get a guy with a certs whose reaction to changing technology platforms and admin needs was to balk and ask for training before he would do X/Y/Z.
- there was no GPU accelerator in my midi tower system, that came later, agp and other memory and code transfering techniques (shaders).
Is a "MIDI tower" some kind of music system?
The real issue with old computers (as in MSDOS era) was all the
hardware tinkering. Games were tailored to specific sound cards, that
sort of thing.
The software bloat is slowing. I run a 10 year old machine, and apart from not being able to run games, it does run OK. Some websites do
slow a little, but most other things still run OK. Thay may be in part because I run Linux. So the 'bloat' isn't outpacing hardware anymore, which is good thing.
<snip>
Some excellent points there. Would be interesting to load up an old OS and matching apps on a modern PC, and see what happens. That's if it's even possible. :)
Part of the downfall of San Francisco, which is quickly becoming a
tech campus on its own, is the lack of social diversity. When I lived
in San Francisco, I knew third generation San Franciscans, plumbers,
contractors, cops, pipe fitters, waiters (not hacks, but people who'd
been waiting tables for 15+ years) professional bartenders, cafe
owners, artists, and so on.
They've all been priced out of the city, and the lack of different
perspectives makes me fear that it's becoming an echo chamber for
tech workers.
Is a "MIDI tower" some kind of music system?
Maybe this is some local term we used back in the time, poorly translated back to the language.
what I refer to midi tower is a tower system for PC that is not super high but still vertical system (not horizontal that you could put your monitor on top f)
They are still sold for modern desktop PCs under the same name in my country by the way:
https://www.komputronik.pl/search-filter/2701/obudowy-midi-tower
What's the point of paying to live in a city like San Francisco to
sit in your living room eating delivery?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Mon Sep 28 2020 11:49 am
Yeah, and I'm that hiring manager who's turned off by certifications. Give me some husker who's shown a track record of showing initiative and picking up whatever needs to be taken care of as department needs change a
learning as he/she goes.
Too many times I'd get a guy with a certs whose reaction to changing technolog
platforms and admin needs was to balk and ask for training before he would do
X/Y/Z.
I've wondered about the value of certifications. For software stuff, I've often fo
I can pick up programming languages & other technologies on the job. I could spend
$1000 on a certification for something, but then I might find I'd only use it for a
short time on the job, and by the time I'd need to use that knowledge again, the
technology would have changed.
Nightfox
Part of the downfall of San Francisco, which is quickly becoming a
tech campus on its own, is the lack of social diversity. When I lived
in San Francisco, I knew third generation San Franciscans, plumbers,
contractors, cops, pipe fitters, waiters (not hacks, but people who'd
been waiting tables for 15+ years) professional bartenders, cafe
owners, artists, and so on.
They've all been priced out of the city, and the lack of different
perspectives makes me fear that it's becoming an echo chamber for
tech workers.
Sad to read it, same is happening in Seattle to my knowledge.
hollowone wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
These people will go even more nuts with disconnected ideas about
their social "network" if isolated even more from the outside world,
btw.
Part of the downfall of San Francisco, which is quickly becoming a
tech campus on its own, is the lack of social diversity. When I lived
in San Francisco, I knew third generation San Franciscans, plumbers, contractors, cops, pipe fitters, waiters (not hacks, but people who'd
been waiting tables for 15+ years) professional bartenders, cafe
owners, artists, and so on.
They've all been priced out of the city, and the lack of different
a macro perspective. There has been a lot of study into crowd psychology and how we can be pushed into doing illogical things such a buying toilet paper during a percieved shortage of commodities, rather than long lasting food an
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Sep 29 2020 06:32 am
My wife considers me a hoarder, but whenever I contemplate getting a replacement product, I always mull over the question "What do I do with the old one?". It is that which stops me, as I have an almost pathological aversion to throwing out things that work. I can afford a new phone, a new computer, but the question of what I do with the old one remains unanswered. Recycling isn't really a good solution, and I can't bear to trash the planet with waste.
You don't have to throw out old stuff - You can sell it, especially if it's still in working condition. I like to buy new stuff sometimes,
but I'll often sell the old thing I'm replacing. If I can't sell it, I might donate it to Goodwill or something. Generally I don't like accumulating too much stuff that will probably just end up taking up
space and not being used. Not having too much stuff also helps make moving easier when you need to..
Nightfox wrote to hollowone <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: hollowone to Nightfox on Tue Sep 29 2020 09:42 pm
Is a "MIDI tower" some kind of music system?
Maybe this is some local term we used back in the time, poorly translated back to the language.
what I refer to midi tower is a tower system for PC that is not super high but still vertical system (not horizontal that you could put your monitor on top f)
They are still sold for modern desktop PCs under the same name in my country by the way:
https://www.komputronik.pl/search-filter/2701/obudowy-midi-tower
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is
something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for
musical instruments.
Nightfox
Arelor wrote to hollowone <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: hollowone to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Sep 29 2020 10:19 pm
Part of the downfall of San Francisco, which is quickly becoming a
tech campus on its own, is the lack of social diversity. When I lived
in San Francisco, I knew third generation San Franciscans, plumbers,
contractors, cops, pipe fitters, waiters (not hacks, but people who'd
been waiting tables for 15+ years) professional bartenders, cafe
owners, artists, and so on.
They've all been priced out of the city, and the lack of different
perspectives makes me fear that it's becoming an echo chamber for
tech workers.
Sad to read it, same is happening in Seattle to my knowledge.
You know what?
You know all those years of bullies bullying nerds?
You know of all the mockery morons poured on the successes of clever people?
You know all the hate that was thrown against some dudes because they happened to be bookworms instead of football fans?
This is reckoning time. You tried to turn our school years into hell.
Now we drive you out of your homes. We will dominate! The world as you know it is getting to its end. The same nerds you tried to make
miserable will be your masters.
They said we were mad. This will teach them. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
* PULLS LEVER AS LIGTHING STRIKES AND THE MONSTER STARTS MOVING *
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to hollowone on Tue Sep 29 2020 08:31 am
hollowone wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
These people will go even more nuts with disconnected ideas about
their social "network" if isolated even more from the outside world,
btw.
Part of the downfall of San Francisco, which is quickly becoming a
tech campus on its own, is the lack of social diversity. When I lived
in San Francisco, I knew third generation San Franciscans, plumbers, contractors, cops, pipe fitters, waiters (not hacks, but people who'd
been waiting tables for 15+ years) professional bartenders, cafe
owners, artists, and so on.
They've all been priced out of the city, and the lack of different
diversity is very important. i've seen groups of people degenrate into their racial sterotypes when there isnt enough diversity.
i lived in an area where it was all white people in a village way from
the city and it was like living in heehaw. now i'm in an area where
it's mostly poor blacks and it's 3 people killed every day, 5 car accidents a day due to wreckless driving.
it's important to have people that have good values in the mix or
things go sideways. once things get out of balance it's hard to do a reset on an area. ---
I remember the phrase "MIDI Tower" as well, I think it was between the full tower and mini tower?
On 09-29-20 06:42, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Modern hardware is definately needed for video processing, encoding, watching hi-def, photo manipulation, DSP work, etc. However, as I said
to Andeddu, we have no provision in our world to repurpose the older technology. We ASSUME that people will upgade and dispose, and have little to no provision in our software ecosystem to merge the new with
the older. Sure, Adobe Premier will always have high system
requirements, but the OS shouldn't. It should not be necessary to
update the computer to do the same things.
The Linux Terminal Server Project was a good attempt at making old machines into thin clients for new ones. I was seriously contemplating rolling it out at a workplace I co-administered, but the transition to Linux would have been an issue. I though thin clients would return,
but they didn't. Instead we have "cloud computing", which is
pointless, because in order for your program to run somewhere else, you still need a new one, so you may as well run it all locally. As usual, the "progress" is just for the devs, not the users.
Yes, one wonders. :) When web browsers gobble up a GB or more of RAM at the drop of a hat, it's hard to believe that I started surfing the web with maybe 32MB od RAM. :)
16M!
On 09-29-20 08:54, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/REALITY
Vk3jed wrote to hollowone <=-
Some excellent points there. Would be interesting to load up an old OS and matching apps on a modern PC, and see what happens. That's if it's even possible. :)
I have VMWare Workstation on my desktop, and a Windows95 VM. It's
pretty good, but the mouse is glitchy and support for 1920x1080 is
iffy. I can run it on my 1280x1024 secondary monitor just fine.
Shortly, we're talking about completely different volumes of data today that requires different architecture to handle.
You mean my 4GB Travan drive with a floppy interface wouldn't cut it
today?
On 09-29-20 22:19, hollowone wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Virtual Machines make it possible.
I have VMs with Win95/98/MSDOS installed for some software that
requires them.
If you need instruction how to get it installed I can prepare
something.
On 09-29-20 06:32, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
My wife considers me a hoarder, but whenever I contemplate getting a replacement product, I always mull over the question "What do I do with the old one?". It is that which stops me, as I have an almost pathological aversion to throwing out things that work. I can afford a new phone, a new computer, but the question of what I do with the old
one remains unanswered. Recycling isn't really a good solution, and I can't bear to trash the planet with waste.
When most people buy an update, the older device becomes "obsolete",
but in reality we have NO IDEA what to do with these things. Worse, we have no plan aside from trashing them. Here is the hole in our system,
we buy things, but in our planning, our design, we have no provision
for how to reuse or repurpose objects when we have purchased a newer version. Our "plan", so to speak, doesn't ask the question, so it
becomes waste. We don't have an IT mentality or philosophy which repurposes these machines for other tasks. We don't design software or systems to utilise them. The real issue isn't recycling or waste handling, its our management of technology which doesn't allow further use. The mainstream software and hardware design is not designed to
make full use of our resources, so we waste them through bad management
of the lifecycle of technological products.
Now, there ARE options. Some Linux distros are designed to run on old hardware. I used to use the Linux Terminal Server Project to turn a
486 into a faster machine by using it as a thin client. There are solutions which can prevent premature obsolescence. We CAN design hardware with more capability.
On 09-28-20 11:49, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to MRO <=-
Too many times I'd get a guy with a certs whose reaction to changing
technology platforms and admin needs was to balk and ask for training
before he would do X/Y/Z.
On 09-29-20 17:04, Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Big cities are like that. You get high paying jobs, but you don't get
to enjoy your life because moving from your house to the workplace
takes hours. Then you have to eat from a tupperware in the park because you cannot afford to go home for lunch or stop at restaurant, despite being a senior devop or whatever.
hollowone wrote to HusTler <=-
That's because of money. You can't just leave things "as is". People would be out of jobs. Companies like Adobe would fold. I love Windows
7. But now it's Defunked. Why? I still use it. I still use Word 2007. I refuse to play the software game.
They are still sold for modern desktop PCs under the same name in my country by the way:
https://www.komputronik.pl/search-filter/2701/obudowy-midi-tower
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is
something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for
musical instruments.
Nightfox
---
= Synchronet = Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
You know what?
You know all those years of bullies bullying nerds?
You know of all the mockery morons poured on the successes of clever people?
You know all the hate that was thrown against some dudes because they happened to be bookworms instead of football fans?
This is reckoning time. You tried to turn our school years into hell.
Now we drive you out of your homes. We will dominate! The world as you know it is getting to its end. The same nerds you tried to make
miserable will be your masters.
They said we were mad. This will teach them. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
* PULLS LEVER AS LIGTHING STRIKES AND THE MONSTER STARTS MOVING *
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Wed Sep 30 2020 02:00 am
I remember the phrase "MIDI Tower" as well, I think it was between the full tower and mini tower?
I'd never heard "MIDI tower" before. MIDI is Musical Instrument Digital Interface, and it's a technical standard for musical instruments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI
Nightfox
Yes, it shouldn't require a huge machine just to edit a Word document, since in the past, the exact same function could be performed on much lesser hardware. Sadly, many simple tasks can't be delegated to older PCs. I'm in a better position, as a lot of my radio stuff runs in text mode and tends to have less laggy components than their GUI counterparts. BBSing is one example, and the various RoIP systems are also easy on resources by today's standards. The earlier ones could run on an early Pentium, if not a 486. And today, you could still theoretically run it on such hardware, if you can find a distro that supports it.
I did look at it, and liked the idea, but I worked in a (mostly) Windows shop. I did successfully introduce Linux for many server tasks, but the desktop environment needed to be Windows. We did make limited use of Windows Terminal Server, but the cost to roll that across the entire office would have been high. LTS fit the cost profile, but not the users.
I know I was surfing with 32MB, but I may have even started out with 8. But my memory (of the biological kind) is too hazy to know. :)
I've got a pile of old netbooks from schools. They were intended for kids programs, but only a small number were needed. But I've found a number of uses, some network routing and management tasks, where I can deploy one with suitable VPN software into a network that I manage. Did it for a friend a while back. And I've mentioned my "BBS traveller", which also has VPN access back to here, whenever it's running.
These people will go even more nuts with disconnected ideas about their social "network" if isolated even more from the outside world, btw.
Part of the downfall of San Francisco, which is quickly becoming a
tech campus on its own, is the lack of social diversity. When I lived
They've all been priced out of the city, and the lack of different
What's the point of paying to live in a city like San Francisco to
sit in your living room eating delivery?
On 09-25-20 14:01, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yup, I'm still waiting to feel like an adult so I can decide what I
want to be when I grow up. I turned 40 this year...
Join the club. I'm 52. :)
Dennisk wrote to Nightfox <=-
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is
something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for
musical instruments.
I remember the phrase "MIDI Tower" as well, I think it was
between the full tower and mini tower?
Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-
I have the feeling that a lot of people in the industry does not value certification much.
Heck, I know IT firms whose personal selection process consists in
giving the candidates free training with the software the company uses, and hire the guys who pick it up fast.
diversity is very important. i've seen groups of people degenrate
into their racial sterotypes when there isnt enough diversity.
i lived in an area where it was all white people in a village way
from the city and it was like living in heehaw. now i'm in an area
where it's mostly poor blacks and it's 3 people killed every day, 5
car accidents a day due to wreckless driving.
it's important to have people that have good values in the mix or
things go sideways. once things get out of balance it's hard to do
a reset on an area. ---
Maybe in the sticks you see that, but I've been to many, many cities which don't have "diversity" and they were wonderful. Going through Europe, the more the city was a reflection of the national character (ie, less cosmopolitan), the more relaxed, friendly and welcoming people were. My experience is the opposite. Where you need diversity, is diversity of age, of profession, of having people of different professional backgrounds together, instead of having all the office professionals in this area, the
experience is the opposite. Where you need diversity, is diversity of age, of profession, of having people of different professional backgrounds together, instead of having all the office professionals in this area, the tradies in that area, young parents there. In that respect we aren't diverse.
I'd never heard "MIDI tower" before. MIDI is Musical Instrument
Digital Interface, and it's a technical standard for musical
instruments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI
Might be an Australian thing. There is a "Mid Tower", so perhaps some people called it Midi? Or maybe it was just confusion and Mid Tower turned to Midi?
It might be an Australian thing. I did a websearch, and most of the hits were Australian sites.
Note that in many parts of Australia, a half pint glass is called a Middy. Could have something to do with that.
I'd never heard "MIDI tower" before. MIDI is Musical Instrument Digital Interface, and it's a technical standard for musical instruments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI
Nightfox
Might be an Australian thing. There is a "Mid Tower", so perhaps some people called it Midi? Or maybe it was just confusion and Mid Tower turned to Midi?
It might be an Australian thing. I did a websearch, and most of the
hits were Australian sites.
Note that in many parts of Australia, a half pint glass is called a
Middy. Could have something to do with that.
I've got a pile of old netbooks from schools. They were intended for kids programs, but only a small number were needed. But I've found a number of uses, some network routing and management tasks, where I can deploy one with
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: hollowone to Nightfox on Tue Sep 29 2020 09:42 pm
Is a "MIDI tower" some kind of music system?
Maybe this is some local term we used back in the time, poorly translat back to the language.
what I refer to midi tower is a tower system for PC that is not super h but still vertical system (not horizontal that you could put your monit on top f)
They are still sold for modern desktop PCs under the same name in my country by the way:
https://www.komputronik.pl/search-filter/2701/obudowy-midi-tower
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is something en
Nightfox
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Sep 29 2020 11:13 am
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Mon Sep 28 2020 11:49 am
Yeah, and I'm that hiring manager who's turned off by certifications Give me some husker who's shown a track record of showing initiative and picking up whatever needs to be taken care of as department need learning as he/she goes.
Too many times I'd get a guy with a certs whose reaction to changing platforms and admin needs was to balk and ask for training before he X/Y/Z.
I've wondered about the value of certifications. For software stuff, I'v I can pick up programming languages & other technologies on the job. I c $1000 on a certification for something, but then I might find I'd only us short time on the job, and by the time I'd need to use that knowledge aga technology would have changed.
Nightfox
I have the feeling that a lot of people in the industry does not value certi much.
Heck, I know IT firms whose personal selection process consists in giving th candidates free training with the software the company uses, and hire the gu pick it up fast.
--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
My wife considers me a hoarder, but whenever I contemplate getting a replacement product, I always mull over the question "What do I do with the old one?". It is that which stops me, as I have an almost pathological aversion to throwing out things that work. I can afford a new phone, a new computer, but the question of what I do with the old one remains unanswered. Recycling isn't really a good solution, and I can't bear to trash the planet with waste.
When most people buy an update, the older device becomes "obsolete", but in reality we have NO IDEA what to do with these things. Worse, we have no plan aside from trashing them. Here is the hole in our system, we buy things, but in our planning, our design, we have no provision for how to reuse or repurpose objects when we have purchased a newer version. Our "plan", so to speak, doesn't ask the question, so it becomes waste. We don't have an IT mentality or philosophy which repurposes these machines for other tasks. We don't design software or systems to utilise them. The real issue isn't recycling or waste handling, its our management of technology which doesn't allow further use. The mainstream software and hardware design is not designed to make full use of our resources, so we waste them through bad management of the lifecycle of technological products.
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for musical instruments.
On 09-30-20 08:09, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Word itself is a problem, but the point does stand. Perhaps in the
near future when many computers are single board, we could plug those boards in as if they were PCI cards, and just incorporate the older computer into the newer one. That is, when it gets to be too slow, its plugged into a newer one, and can have tasks offloaded to it.
I did as well. I introduced a proxy server and firewall using Red Hat.
It wasn't a hard sell, being free and me knowing how it actually
worked.
I know I was surfing with 32MB, but I may have even started out with 8. But my memory (of the biological kind) is too hazy to know. :)
I do remember 16M wasn't all that fast for Web Browsing, especially
with windows NT.
On 09-30-20 08:23, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I can see a use for a simple system that you can install, that turns
the netbook into a Colour Maximite, or something like that.
Not a full OS, just BASIC set up which can be used as a teaching
device, for kids to run programs and do basic work. Something I could give to my daughter to play around with, try some maths, but isn't a
full OS, so no need to worry about management, internet, etc.
On 09-30-20 06:58, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/STEPPING
... Vk3jed scribbled to Warpslide in the sand ...
On 09-25-20 14:01, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yup, I'm still waiting to feel like an adult so I can decide what I
want to be when I grow up. I turned 40 this year...
Join the club. I'm 52. :)
What's grown up? :)
On 09-30-20 16:57, HusTler wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Would you be willing to part with one of those netbooks by chance?
MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to MRO on Wed Sep 30 2020 02:15 am
diversity is very important. i've seen groups of people degenrate
into their racial sterotypes when there isnt enough diversity.
i lived in an area where it was all white people in a village way
from the city and it was like living in heehaw. now i'm in an area
where it's mostly poor blacks and it's 3 people killed every day, 5
car accidents a day due to wreckless driving.
it's important to have people that have good values in the mix or
things go sideways. once things get out of balance it's hard to do
a reset on an area. ---
Maybe in the sticks you see that, but I've been to many, many cities which don't have "diversity" and they were wonderful. Going through Europe, the more the city was a reflection of the national character (ie, less cosmopolitan), the more relaxed, friendly and welcoming people were. My experience is the opposite. Where you need diversity, is diversity of age, of profession, of having people of different professional backgrounds together, instead of having all the office professionals in this area, the
i've always lived near active big cities. i don't like having nothing
to do.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Sep 29 2020 06:32 am
My wife considers me a hoarder, but whenever I contemplate getting a replacement product, I always mull over the question "What do I do with the old one?". It is that which stops me, as I have an almost pathological aversion to throwing out things that work. I can afford a new phone, a new computer, but the question of what I do with the old one remains unanswered. Recycling isn't really a good solution, and I can't bear to trash the planet with waste.
When most people buy an update, the older device becomes "obsolete", but in reality we have NO IDEA what to do with these things. Worse, we have no plan aside from trashing them. Here is the hole in our system, we buy things, but in our planning, our design, we have no provision for how to reuse or repurpose objects when we have purchased a newer version. Our "plan", so to speak, doesn't ask the question, so it becomes waste. We don't have an IT mentality or philosophy which repurposes these machines for other tasks. We don't design software or systems to utilise them. The real issue isn't recycling or waste handling, its our management of technology which doesn't allow further use. The mainstream software and hardware design is not designed to make full use of our resources, so we waste them through bad management of the lifecycle of technological products.
I don't really keep anything that I consider obsolete other than some electronics. I don't have much storage space so I have to be picky with that I can keep. I still have an old laptop from 2005, a little M11x laptop from 2010 and a bunch of older iPhones and iPads. Nothing too substantial there. They serve no purpose however other than simply
being part of my collection.
The dude who runs the 80's Apple // BBS has repurposed one of his Apple
// systems as the central computing system for his smart home. Using speech software he has hooked up the lights, aerosol sprays and the heating system, among other things, to his old computer. It's an odd
but good example of someone repurposing "obsolete" technology. You're right though, it doesn't happen very often and a lot of perfectly good electronics are wasted.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-30-20 08:09, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Word itself is a problem, but the point does stand. Perhaps in the
near future when many computers are single board, we could plug those boards in as if they were PCI cards, and just incorporate the older computer into the newer one. That is, when it gets to be too slow, its plugged into a newer one, and can have tasks offloaded to it.
Interesting idea. Certainly not the first time one computer has been plugged into another. In the past, usually to run software intended
for a different platform - such as Z80 cards for the Apple II, Sidecar
for the Amiga 1000, or the 80286 card for the A2000.
I did as well. I introduced a proxy server and firewall using Red Hat.
It wasn't a hard sell, being free and me knowing how it actually
worked.
Linux was an easy sell where I was working at the time. I had all of
our Internet facing infrastructure running Linux, as well as inter-site links. Windows ran the LANs.
I know I was surfing with 32MB, but I may have even started out with 8. But my memory (of the biological kind) is too hazy to know. :)
I do remember 16M wasn't all that fast for Web Browsing, especially
with windows NT.
I did run Netscape under WFWG 3.11 briefly, though most of my browsing
at the time was done on OS/2 or Windows NT 4.
... The Bottom Line: The vertical crack in your butt.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
= Synchronet = Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 09-30-20 08:23, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I can see a use for a simple system that you can install, that turns
the netbook into a Colour Maximite, or something like that.
Hmm, I don't know what one of those is. ;)
Not a full OS, just BASIC set up which can be used as a teaching
device, for kids to run programs and do basic work. Something I could give to my daughter to play around with, try some maths, but isn't a
full OS, so no need to worry about management, internet, etc.
There's definitely a use for that.
I've heard many good things about OS/2, but never used it.
I don't really keep anything that I consider obsolete other than some electronics. I don't have much storage space so I have to be picky with that can keep. I still have an old laptop from 2005, a little M11x laptop from 20 and a bunch of older iPhones and iPads. Nothing too substantial there. They serve no purpose however other than simply being part of my collection.
The dude who runs the 80's Apple // BBS has repurposed one of his Apple // systems as the central computing system for his smart home. Using speech software he has hooked up the lights, aerosol sprays and the heating system, among other things, to his old computer. It's an odd but good example of someone repurposing "obsolete" technology. You're right though, it doesn't happen very often and a lot of perfectly good electronics are wasted.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to hollowone on Tue Sep 29 2020 02:28 pm
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for musical instrument
That's strange because in the UK we used to call them MIDI cases too. I beli the more modern term is Mini-ATX though.
hollowone wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
At work, we don't have servers and server rooms anymore. All is in
cloud connected by desktop/laptop/mobile devices via VPN secured
channel and edge router provided by the ISP. This saved our ass in the COVID as everybody could just go home and stay connected to the
CORPnet.
Thats pretty cool. I've got a few PC's I've collected over the years. It's kind of hard to find new uses, mostly because they are bulky, so they sit as games machines, and for the occasional multiplayer game with the kids. I plan to hand one to the children to play around on. I would use one as a BBS, but I have a Raspberry Pi to do that.
I think that effective repurposing would have to involve designing hardware specifically with that in mind (ie, motherboards you can stack together, so each is a working machine, with one motherboard acting as a 'hypervisor'.
It's challenging to come up with a legitimate use for 20-30 year old tech. Most regular people are quite happy with a main system (PC or laptop) and a tablet along with their smart phone to carry out the most basic browsing/social media functions.
Old computers are massively bulky. They don't go with modern interior design, especially the 90s beige boxes... both desktops and towers. A lot of people would consider them hideously ugly compared to modern sleek standards and get shot of them for that reason alone.
Software demands are so high now that an old system capable of getting you to the moon and back is no where near powerful enough to have any use in a modern home. It's a little mind boggling when you think about it in that context.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Oct 01 2020 10:57 pm
Thats pretty cool. I've got a few PC's I've collected over the years. It's kind of hard to find new uses, mostly because they are bulky, so they sit as games machines, and for the occasional multiplayer game with the kids. I plan to hand one to the children to play around on. I would use one as a BBS, but I have a Raspberry Pi to do that.
I think that effective repurposing would have to involve designing hardware specifically with that in mind (ie, motherboards you can stack together, so each is a working machine, with one motherboard acting as a 'hypervisor'.
It's challenging to come up with a legitimate use for 20-30 year old
tech. Most regular people are quite happy with a main system (PC or laptop) and a tablet along with their smart phone to carry out the most basic browsing/social media functions.
Old computers are massively bulky. They don't go with modern interior design, especially the 90s beige boxes... both desktops and towers. A
lot of people would consider them hideously ugly compared to modern
sleek standards and get shot of them for that reason alone.
Software demands are so high now that an old system capable of getting
you to the moon and back is no where near powerful enough to have any
use in a modern home. It's a little mind boggling when you think about
it in that context.
On 10-01-20 23:00, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
This wouldn't really solve the problem of obsolete computers today, but
it could solve the problem here on in. Especially with laptops, notebooks, the motherboard could be designed in such a way that it
plugs into a desktop. You would need smart power management, to only
run it where needed.
And you're right, having another CPU plug in to a machine has already
been done.
I've heard many good things about OS/2, but never used it.
On 10-01-20 23:11, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The Colour Maximite is an ARM based machine, like a Raspberry Pi, that boots straight into a BASIC environment, similar to the old home computers. You plug a keyboard into it, a monitor, and you turn it on
and start writing BASIC programs straight away, just as you did with
the Apple IIe. Except the Colour Maximite is more modern, much faster, and uses a text editor to write BASIC, instead of the line numbers.
On 10-01-20 13:59, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
It seems to me that many people these days may be happy with just a
tablet or smartphone, and not even a laptop or desktop PC at all. It seems somewhat hard for me to believe, but I've seen some people
recently talk about not having a "computer" (i.e., a laptop or desktop) but they use a tablet or smartphone. I still hear about many people having at least a laptop though.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
OS/2 was awesome. The description of "a better DOS than DOS" was very accurate. OS/2 ran and multitasked DOS (and Windows!) apps very well. Native apps were even smoother.
The dude who runs the 80's Apple // BBS has repurposed one of his Apple // systems as the central computing system for his smart home. Using speech software he has hooked up the lights, aerosol sprays and the heating system, among other things, to his old computer. It's an odd but good example of someone repurposing "obsolete" technology. You're right though, it doesn't happen very often and a lot of perfectly good electronics are wasted.
hollowone wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
At work, we don't have servers and server rooms anymore. All is in
cloud connected by desktop/laptop/mobile devices via VPN secured
channel and edge router provided by the ISP. This saved our ass in the
COVID as everybody could just go home and stay connected to the
CORPnet.
It's nice - I have dozens of systems in AWS, and a small dev
environment set up in the office. My server "room" is about 20U on 3
physical servers running ESX. If I had to manage a production site on physical servers in a data center, COVID would have made things
infinitely more complex.
As it is, I go in once a week to check for mailed invoices, to
dump the condensate water tank in the portable HVAC unit in our temp
space and to check in on the construction of our new office space.
I know of a number of people who only use a phone for Internet acess. As fast as my new iPhone is, I still find mobile access occasionally clumsy and limiting, and prefer a full interface for some things.
When I switched my desktop to OS/2, I moved the BBS over to my desktop machine and it ran seamlessly in the background without affecting my desktop experience one bit. This was on a 486.
Old computers are massively bulky. They don't go with modern interior design, especially the 90s beige boxes... both desktops and towers. A lot of people would consider them hideously ugly compared to modern sleek standards and get shot of them for that reason alone.
Software demands are so high now that an old system capable of getting you to the moon and back is no where near powerful enough to have any use in a modern
home. It's a little mind boggling when you think about it in that context.
I tend to prefer function over form (though I do like it when things look good). I've never seen anything wrong or ugly with having a desktop PC in my room though.
OS/2 was awesome. The description of "a better DOS than DOS" was very accurate. OS/2 ran and multitasked DOS (and Windows!) apps very well. Native
apps were even smoother.
In the mid-90s, I wished OS/2 would somehow overtake Windows, but that never happened. :/
Thats why I don't get really, how we have taken a course of development wher it is not enough. I mean, it makes sense when you look at what the software doing, but you have to ask, why are we making the software do so much?
I think some of the sleeper builds in older computer cases are really cool.
Same, after Windows 2000 (NT5) I made the switch to Windows... didn't
move to XP until like SP2/3 timeframe.
What do you mean? I kinda like my word processor making coffee for me every morning. ;)
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-01-20 23:00, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
This wouldn't really solve the problem of obsolete computers today, but
it could solve the problem here on in. Especially with laptops, notebooks, the motherboard could be designed in such a way that it
plugs into a desktop. You would need smart power management, to only
run it where needed.
It's an interesting idea that has merit.
HusTler wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Fri Oct 02 2020 08:14 pm
Thats why I don't get really, how we have taken a course of development wher it is not enough. I mean, it makes sense when you look at what the software doing, but you have to ask, why are we making the software do so much?
What do you mean? I kinda like my word processor making coffee for me every morning. ;)
Tracker1 wrote to Andeddu <=-
On 9/30/2020 10:18 AM, Andeddu wrote:
The dude who runs the 80's Apple // BBS has repurposed one of his Apple // systems as the central computing system for his smart home. Using speech software he has hooked up the lights, aerosol sprays and the heating system, among other things, to his old computer. It's an odd but good example of someone repurposing "obsolete" technology. You're right though, it doesn't happen very often and a lot of perfectly good electronics are wasted.
I really wish the effort to recycle materials from those old systems
was a bit cleaner. For the example above, and RPi 4 would use around
4-5w of idle power and have more memory and compute power, not sure
what the Apple2 uses by comparison. I tend to have almost no
preference towards maintaining or keeping older hardware. I know emulation is far from perfect, but would rather emulate on modern
hardware myself, not to mention keeping fewer physical systems in
general.
Tracker1 wrote to Andeddu <=-design,
On 10/1/2020 9:28 AM, Andeddu wrote:
Old computers are massively bulky. They don't go with modern interior
especially the 90s beige boxes... both desktops and towers. A lot of people would consider them hideously ugly compared to modern sleek standards andget
shot of them for that reason alone.to
I think some of the sleeper builds in older computer cases are really cool. Though I don't think I'd really want to run older hardware for anything myself. RPi is about as low as I go, and that's mostly
because the electric usage is so low for what it is.
Software demands are so high now that an old system capable of getting you
the moon and back is no where near powerful enough to have any use in amodern
home. It's a little mind boggling when you think about it in that context.
I'm not sure that I agree. The Apple iPad Pro is powerful enough for
most desktop use already as are most higher end smart phones for a
couple generations. For that matter, 1 more generation of RPi level and will probably actually have a desktop replacement for most uses. Most people really only need basic word processesing, spreadsheet, youtube, facebook and maybe a minimal audio or video editor.
I really wish the effort to recycle materials from those old systems was a bit cleaner. For the example above, and RPi 4 would use around 4-5w
of idle power and have more memory and compute power, not sure what the Apple2 uses by comparison. I tend to have almost no preference towards maintaining or keeping older hardware. I know emulation is far from perfect, but would rather emulate on modern hardware myself, not to mention keeping fewer physical systems in general.
On 10/1/2020 1:59 PM, Nightfox wrote:
I tend to prefer function over form (though I do like it when things
look good). I've never seen anything wrong or ugly with having a
desktop PC in my room though.
Not in the livingroom, but my desktop pc... passing the case to my daughter early next year though... tbh I regretted the rgb stuff before
I was done with it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/F98EWt4Ny9hgpUgm6
Currently have the emulator rpi in the livingroom in the standard case, but got a couple of these on back-order.
In one of their flyers, they had a plain-jane looking coffee maker. They said it was unassuming, black, non-descript, 10 cup
used Mr. Coffee filters. Why did they feature this, the advertisement asked?
It had an RS-232 port and pinouts. They were sure someone could find a use for it. I could imagine a coffee server somewhere
letting people know how long ago the coffee was made, or pinging it to make a new pot.
On 10-02-20 07:35, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
When I switched my desktop to OS/2, I moved the BBS over to my desktop machine and it ran seamlessly in the background without affecting my desktop experience one bit. This was on a 486.
On 10-02-20 08:51, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
So do I. I type a lot better with a real keyboard, and I like having a bigger screen sometimes.
On 10-02-20 09:13, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Used to do second level phone support for iomega... if you had OS/2 or
a Jazz drive you went straight to a second level tech. In general,
that meant I either dealt with more capable people, or idiots who
didn't know what they had on the IVR inbound system.
I could never do phone support again...
On 09-13-20 22:09, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
This wouldn't really solve the problem of obsolete computers today, but
it could solve the problem here on in. Especially with laptops, notebooks, the motherboard could be designed in such a way that it
plugs into a desktop. You would need smart power management, to only
run it where needed.
It's an interesting idea that has merit.
One of the great features of the IBM PC, was the open modular architecture. We are starting to lose that with people moving towards "devices", but this lesson of its utility should not be lost.
The details on how these "pluggable" computers might work, I don't know
as its just a brain fart that came to me while walking a few days ago,
but I would imagine it would be like a quasi-networked machine that OS services can run from, independently.
On 10-02-20 15:49, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Tracker1 <=-
For me, the internet broke OS/2. I was running Warp 3, and I could
never get the Windows and OS/2 subsystems talking over the same network card. I had to run a separate network cable for each, and run 2 NICs.
I discovered Windows NT 3.51 shortly thereafter, and OS/2 began its
slow fade. I ran the BBS on a 486 running OS/2 at home until got hooked
on the internet and got a Pentium-class machine. That had enough horsepower to make up for Windows 95's poor DOS multitasking, and OS/2
was gone.
On 09-13-20 22:20, Dennisk wrote to HusTler <=-
Coffee is not really my cup of tea.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Fri Oct 02 2020 08:30 am
I really wish the effort to recycle materials from those old systems was a bit cleaner. For the example above, and RPi 4 would use around 4-5w
of idle power and have more memory and compute power, not sure what the Apple2 uses by comparison. I tend to have almost no preference towards maintaining or keeping older hardware. I know emulation is far from perfect, but would rather emulate on modern hardware myself, not to mention keeping fewer physical systems in general.
there seems to be a divid amongst computer guys.
i prefer to toss things out that i dont need or use.
other people like to hang on to old stuff that they never use or could
be replaced with something better.
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when they die. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when theyThey will be worth a mint. I kept some Commodore 64's, I bought them for a few dollars. I got one for $2.
die. ---
Now check the prices...
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for musical instruments.
That's strange because in the UK we used to call them MIDI cases too. I believe the more modern term is Mini-ATX though.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Fri Oct 02 2020 08:30 am
I really wish the effort to recycle materials from those old systems wa a bit cleaner. For the example above, and RPi 4 would use around 4-5w of idle power and have more memory and compute power, not sure what the Apple2 uses by comparison. I tend to have almost no preference towards maintaining or keeping older hardware. I know emulation is far from perfect, but would rather emulate on modern hardware myself, not to mention keeping fewer physical systems in general.
there seems to be a divid amongst computer guys.
i prefer to toss things out that i dont need or use.
other people like to hang on to old stuff that they never use or could
be replaced with something better.
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when they die.
elsewhere. As for newer machines, he had a Dell 10" netbook and 3 older desktops from the last 20 or so years. While checking out the pc's and laptops, I scanned them with a usb based AV program, and every machine had multiple forms of malware and trojans. I think the only thing that probably kept him safe was he used a usb hotspot device to get internet, otherwise his older pc's connected through dialup.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to MRO on Sat Oct 03 2020 05:34 am
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when theyThey will be worth a mint. I kept some Commodore 64's, I bought them fo few dollars. I got one for $2.
die. ---
Now check the prices...
if someone dies and people clean up after him they will probably go in the t
i've seen c64s go for a lot and go for nothing. the prices go up and down.
if someone dies and people clean up after him they will probably go in
the t
i've seen c64s go for a lot and go for nothing. the prices go up and down.
I recall when they were $20 on ebay for a known running C-64. They've been going up in value, mainly because there are certain parts that do not have an option other than original parts as replacements. That's why you'll see boards for sale with the PAL and SID or thye roms removed. I've even seen empty cases for sale. There are recent replacements made for the PAL and
I really wish the effort to recycle materials from those old systems was
a bit cleaner. For the example above, and RPi 4 would use around 4-5w
of idle power and have more memory and compute power, not sure what the Apple2 uses by comparison. I tend to have almost no preference towards maintaining or keeping older hardware. I know emulation is far from perfect, but would rather emulate on modern hardware myself, not to
mention keeping fewer physical systems in general.
I think some of the sleeper builds in older computer cases are really
cool. Though I don't think I'd really want to run older hardware for anything myself. RPi is about as low as I go, and that's mostly because
the electric usage is so low for what it is.
I'm not sure that I agree. The Apple iPad Pro is powerful enough for
most desktop use already as are most higher end smart phones for a
couple generations. For that matter, 1 more generation of RPi level and
will probably actually have a desktop replacement for most uses. Most people really only need basic word processesing, spreadsheet, youtube, facebook and maybe a minimal audio or video editor.
THERE IS ONLY ONE MIDI AND YOU SHALL NOT MISUSE IT! ;-)
there seems to be a divid amongst computer guys.
i prefer to toss things out that i dont need or use.
other people like to hang on to old stuff that they never use or could
be replaced with something better.
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when they die.
I do like the idea of preserving older machines though. I have no real interest in 90s computers but I do like the late 70s & 80s systems. I would happily add to my collection despite not having a great deal of space at home.
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the wild. I
reckon most households would be quite happy having it as their sole system. Like others have said, tablets and phones have replaced desktops and laptops. People no longer want to relegate space for a big ugly computer which has no more functionality (for their use) than a sleek, thin and light tablet.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Tracker1 on Fri Oct 02 2020 08:49 pm
there seems to be a divid amongst computer guys.
i prefer to toss things out that i dont need or use.
other people like to hang on to old stuff that they never use or could be replaced with something better.
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when they die.
I generally like to get rid of things I've replaced and don't use anymore, b sometimes some old stuff might be worth good money in the future. Some peop like to collect old vintage computer hardware.
Nightfox
paulie420 wrote to Andeddu <=-
I do like the idea of preserving older machines though. I have no real interest in 90s computers but I do like the late 70s & 80s systems. I would happily add to my collection despite not having a great deal of space at home.
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the wild. I
reckon most households would be quite happy having it as their sole system. Like others have said, tablets and phones have replaced desktops and laptops. People no longer want to relegate space for a big ugly computer which has no more functionality (for their use) than a sleek, thin and light tablet.
I feel like 90s era computers are emulated well, and still look semi-correct on current systems; So while I was into 386/486 machines,
I haven't felt the need to build one... I can use DOSBOX or other emulation softwares and create a pretty decent running and correct looking/functioning box. With the boxes that I use everyday....
I am interested, however, in the older systems... the Commodore 64, the Applie IIe, some Amiga systems...
I'm starting to have some luck using Amiberry and Amibian on Raspberry
Pi for Amiga setups... but I do love a 500/1200 box - they were sexy.
Andeddu wrote to Tracker1 <=-
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably
more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the
wild.
I reckon most households would be quite happy having it as
their sole system.
Like others have said, tablets and phones have
replaced desktops and laptops.
People no longer want to relegate space for a big ugly
computer which has no more functionality
(for their use) than a sleek, thin and light tablet.
I am interested, however, in the older systems... the Commodore 64, the Applie IIe, some Amiga systems...
I'm starting to have some luck using Amiberry and Amibian on Raspberry Pi for Amiga setups... but I do love a 500/1200 box - they were sexy.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to HusTler on Fri Oct 02 2020 03:54 pm
It reminds me of those Linux Magazine articles about taking a regular coffee maker and turning it into a programmable coffee maker, so when
you wake up each morning you find the coffe is already done :-P
On 10-02-20 09:13, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Haha, I'm the type who usually leaves the curly issues for tech support
- I've already checked out the easy options. :)
I could never do phone support again...
You'd probably enjoy sites like techtales.com. :D
On 09-13-20 22:20, Dennisk wrote to HusTler <=-
Coffee is not really my cup of tea.
Nope, it's coffee. ;)
(Sorry, couldn't resist). :D
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Oct 03 2020 11:02 pm
if someone dies and people clean up after him they will probably go in
the t
i've seen c64s go for a lot and go for nothing. the prices go up and dow
I recall when they were $20 on ebay for a known running C-64. They've b going up in value, mainly because there are certain parts that do not h an option other than original parts as replacements. That's why you'll boards for sale with the PAL and SID or thye roms removed. I've even se empty cases for sale. There are recent replacements made for the PAL an
i think the only reason these computers go up in price is because one guy po
--- MRO wrote -- >
other people like to hang on to old stuff that they never use or coul
be replaced with something better.
i feel sorry for the people that have to clean up after them when they die
On 10-04-20 20:54, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I could never do phone support again...
I'm interested in learning more about phone tech support. I'd like to learn more how to be on a friendly basis with people and to either help with someone that knows what they're doing, yet need a little push in
the right direction on provide help with someone that just needs to
learn or needs work done for them.
You'd probably enjoy sites like techtales.com. :D
Sounds like a site that talks about stories of technicians. :)
On 10-04-20 20:58, Jon Justvig wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Q: What did the cup of tea say to the other cup of tea during their conversation?
A: You talk for oolong.
For what it's worth:
Oolong tea is a traditional Chinese tea. It’s made from the leaves of
the Camellia sinensis plant, the same plant used to make green tea and black tea. The difference is in how the tea is processed. All tea
leaves contain certain enzymes, which produce a chemical reaction
called oxidation.
On 10-04-20 11:39, paulie420 wrote to Andeddu <=-
I feel like 90s era computers are emulated well, and still look semi-correct on current systems; So while I was into 386/486 machines,
I haven't felt the need to build one... I can use DOSBOX or other emulation softwares and create a pretty decent running and correct looking/functioning box. With the boxes that I use everyday....
I am interested, however, in the older systems... the Commodore 64, the Applie IIe, some Amiga systems...
On 10-04-20 23:21, Andeddu wrote to paulie420 <=-
Same. Any Apple // would do me... even the //c which is still a
beautiful system. I already have the FloppyEMU for my current Macintosh and it's compatible with the Apple // so I'd have the entire library available to me. I think I would only really be interested in ProTERM
so I could BBS and perhaps a couple of games to try out.
I'd love an Amiga too. The 1200 would be ideal however the 500 can do a lot also, either model would be awesome. Amiga prices are becoming more and more steep this year though. I don't plan on picking up another vintage machine until summer next year so I have time to see how the market plays out.
Andeddu wrote to Tracker1 <=-
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably
more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the
wild.
Maybe some, but I doubt the "vast majority" of (modern) laptops.
I reckon most households would be quite happy having it as
their sole system.
I reckon you're wrong on that.
I despise a touchscreen and/or a virtual keyboard. Most people I
know would agree. For some things of short duration and limitied
typing requirements, they're fine, but not for most of the things
that I do with a computer. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.
Like others have said, tablets and phones have
replaced desktops and laptops.
Really? Where do you get all your wisdom to arrive at these sage
and all-encompassing conclusions?
People no longer want to relegate space for a big ugly
computer which has no more functionality
(for their use) than a sleek, thin and light tablet.
The Colour Maximite is an ARM based machine, like a Raspberry Pi, that boots straight into a BASIC environment, similar to the old home computers. You plug a keyboard into it, a monitor, and you turn it on
and start writing BASIC programs straight away, just as you did with
the Apple IIe. Except the Colour Maximite is more modern, much faster, and uses a text editor to write BASIC, instead of the line numbers.
It's challenging to come up with a legitimate use for 20-30 year old
tech. Most regular people are quite happy with a main system (PC or laptop) and a tablet along with their smart phone to carry out the most basic browsing/social media functions.
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the wild. I
reckon most households would be quite happy having it as their sole system. Like others have said, tablets and phones have replaced
desktops and laptops. People no longer want to relegate space for a
big ugly computer which has no more functionality (for their use)
than a sleek, thin and light tablet.
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably
more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the
wild.
Maybe some, but I doubt the "vast majority" of (modern) laptops.
I reckon most households would be quite happy having it as
their sole system.
I reckon you're wrong on that.
I despise a touchscreen and/or a virtual keyboard. Most people I
know would agree. For some things of short duration and limitied
typing requirements, they're fine, but not for most of the things
that I do with a computer. Not even close. Not even in the same
ballpark.
Like others have said, tablets and phones have
replaced desktops and laptops.
Really? Where do you get all your wisdom to arrive at these sage
and all-encompassing conclusions?
I wouldn't doubt that somewhere, there is an app to turn on/off the
coffee maker. Now if the app would just put in the coffee and water, wouldn't that be quite an invention?
Q: What did the cup of tea say to the other cup of tea during their conversation?
A: You talk for oolong.
I could never do phone support again...
I'm interested in learning more about phone tech support. I'd like to
learn more how to be on a friendly basis with people and to either help
with someone that knows what they're doing, yet need a little push in the right direction on provide help with someone that just needs to learn or needs work done for them.
I could never do phone support again...
I'm interested in learning more about phone tech support. I'd like to learn more how to be on a friendly basis with people and to either helpI've done a little tech support, both over the hone and in person. Some peop are really good and pick up on things quickly. Some are not so quick, but yo
can tell they're slowly "getting it". Those people I used to encourage to stick with it.
duck's bum, but they struggle to follow the most basic instructions. Now those really test your patience! But I have had success at times. I
... Arelor scribbled to poindexter FORTRAN in the sand ...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to HusTler on Fri Oct 02 2020 03:54 pm
It reminds me of those Linux Magazine articles about taking a regular coffee maker and turning it into a programmable coffee maker, so when you wake up each morning you find the coffe is already done :-P
I wouldn't doubt that somewhere, there is an app to turn on/off the
coffee maker. Now if the app would just put in the coffee and water, wouldn't that be quite an invention?
Sincerely,
Jon Justvig
... Idiot Box - The part of the envelope that tells where the stamp goes.
... Vk3jed scribbled to Tracker1 in the sand ...
On 10-02-20 09:13, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Haha, I'm the type who usually leaves the curly issues for tech support - I've already checked out the easy options. :)
I could never do phone support again...
I'm interested in learning more about phone tech support. I'd like to learn more how to be on a friendly basis with people and to either help with someone that knows what they're doing, yet need a little push in the right direction on provide help with someone that just needs to learn or needs work done for them.
You'd probably enjoy sites like techtales.com. :D
Sounds like a site that talks about stories of technicians. :)
Sincerely,
Jon Justvig
... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
It's challenging to come up with a legitimate use for 20-30 year old tech. Most regular people are quite happy with a main system (PC or laptop) and a tablet along with their smart phone to carry out the most basic browsing/social media functions.
After many years of retro-mania I discovered that this is more about specifi software not hardware I long for.
I want to run the customized Workbench experience instead of touching real amiga, I want to play old games with a proper joystick not on keyboard emulating joystick.
All that feeling with a real apps is what drives people back to old hardware but this can be achieved in many different ways.
/h1
... -= I must say I love this cryptic world of BBSes more and more =-
I wouldn't doubt that somewhere, there is an app to turn on/off the
coffee maker. Now if the app would just put in the coffee and water, wouldn't that be quite an invention?
You'd probably enjoy sites like techtales.com. :D
Sounds like a site that talks about stories of technicians. :)
Yes, like "war stories" for tech support people. :)
end up using DosBox quite a bit, as its more convienient. You can run Windows 3.1 in DosBox, pretty sure.
Coffee makers run on timers already, and I can imagine a solenoid valve and digital flow meter could be used to refill the water resevoir. Since you'd want to replace the filter, I imagine adding coffee at theat time would not be a hassle. The alternative would be adding a larger hopper for the coffee and some form of auger that is calibrated so it knows how much coffee is metered by turn rate or timer interval.the coffee makers at the truck stop I work at already does that. you just push the brew button and it makes the coffee. a permanent filter can be made, but you'd need to empty it each time, but wouldmake it nice if you didn't have to measure out the coffee grinds.
--- MOONDOG wrote --
On a discussion forum I visit there is a member who bought and Altai
emulator which recreates the front panel, and runs off an arduin microcontroller. I showed him a link to a Pet 2001 kit and a Sinclair ZX which both require soldering components to a circuit board, and he bough
both to recreate pc's from his past. if my Pet 2001-8 requires more than
few roms replaced, I might order the DIY replacement drop-in board kit.
Since it uses modern components, it takes up a fraction of the pc's interi
Memory and rom chips are the parts which could be consolidated into singl IC's
Secondly, desktops are all but dead in the modern household. Here in BBS land, there will be a high percentage of people wit
desktop machines, but in the real world, they are uncommon and become more and more uncommon.
A few years back we had a coffee maker where you would pour whole coffee beans into the top. You would then set a timer and it would grind the beans for you & drop them into the coffee filter before brewing.
It was a neat idea, but quite often the grounds would get jammed on their way down to the filter. This would result in either a pot of hot water or very weak coffee in the morning.
If someone could perfect that idea, and also hook it up to a water supply, this could be a $1,000,000 idea.
Secondly, desktops are all but dead in the modern household. Here in
BBS land, there will be a high percentage of people wit desktop
machines, but in the real world, they are uncommon and become more and
more uncommon.
ALL my IRL friends have a desktop or workstation at home and use it.
People is adding smartphones and tablets to their digital life but they are not using them as a computer replacement.
People Suck! ;-)
I wouldn't doubt that somewhere, there is an app to turn on/off the
coffee maker. Now if the app would just put in the coffee and water,
wouldn't that be quite an invention?
Someone might do that at some point. It would need some kind of device (or perhaps the coffee maker itself) that can get the coffee & water into the
I wouldn't doubt that somewhere, there is an app to turn on/off the
coffee maker. Now if the app would just put in the coffee and
water, wouldn't that be quite an invention?
Someone might do that at some point. It would need some kind of
device (or perhaps the coffee maker itself) that can get the coffee
& water into the
only peewee herman
I think some of the sleeper builds in older computer cases are really
cool.
I saw a Core i7 running in an Apple Quadra 700 case. Loved it, that was one of my favorite computers of the 90s.
If I could get an ADB to USB convertor, an Apple extended keyboard and mouse, and get it to run MacOS, I'd be a happy man.
Same, after Windows 2000 (NT5) I made the switch to Windows... didn't
move to XP until like SP2/3 timeframe.
For me, the internet broke OS/2. I was running Warp 3, and I could never get the Windows and OS/2 subsystems talking over the same network card. I had to run a separate network cable for each, and run 2 NICs.
I discovered Windows NT 3.51 shortly thereafter, and OS/2 began its slow fade. I ran the BBS on a 486 running OS/2 at home until got hooked on the internet and got a Pentium-class machine. That had enough horsepower to make up for Windows 95's poor DOS multitasking, and OS/2 was gone.
Coffee is not really my cup of tea.
A lot of the crap that is added onto software is to accomodate edge
cases, and other vagaries. Someone decides that software X should be
able to do Y and it gets put in, despite Y not being all the important.
Web browsers are the perfect example. They are made to be able to do so
much stuff, where they should NEVER have been. Web browsers are to
browse the web. At the point where people wanted networked
applications, a different route should have been chosen. Now the requirements to look at a PLAIN HTML web page in terms of CPU and memory neeeded are shameful (well, unless you're wiling to go way off the
beaten track.)
This is exactly my point. We are very good at pushing up system
requirements thereby compelling people to by new hardware, but we don't
know what to do with the old stuff, and I do agree that much if what you
CAN do with them, you can do with a Raspberry Pi anyway.
This just increases the need to ensure that software development is
aimed at working on existing hardware, so that you don't have to discard
the old stuff.
Our philosophy on resource management is all wrong.
"only need facebook".
That is the problem. Facebook runs like an absolute DOG on anything
old. I have an older laptop, and it is barely usable.
So if ALL that someone wants to do, is tell Aunt Lucy about their veggie patch and share a picture, they'll need to get on this upgrade/discard/destroy our natural environment train.
All those materials, those resources, the energy that went into it, the animals killed, the natural habitat lost due to mining of minerals, the
toxic chemical created during the production process, the
heavy metals from e-waste leeching into our waterways so that we can
ingest that poison back when we have tuna bake, because our wise
developers and software engineers make such garbage.
This is the opposite of what any species which wants a long term future
needs to do. But I bet these tech assholes think they are all for sustainability, etc.
On 10-02-20 09:13, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Used to do second level phone support for iomega... if you had OS/2 ora Jazz drive you went straight to a second level tech. In general,
that meant I either dealt with more capable people, or idiots who
didn't know what they had on the IVR inbound system.
Haha, I'm the type who usually leaves the curly issues for tech support - I've
already checked out the easy options. :)
I could never do phone support again...
You'd probably enjoy sites like techtales.com. :D
The majority of stuff was missing power adapters
I did phone support. People suck!
Never again. I enjoy helping people with their computers but some are just too much to deal with.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to paulie420 on Sun Oct 04 2020 10:30 pm
end up using DosBox quite a bit, as its more convienient. You can run
Windows 3.1 in DosBox, pretty sure.
Yep. And Windows 9x.
BlaZ
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
The iPad Pro, especially the newer gen ones, are considerably
more powerful than the vast majority of laptops out there in the
wild.
Maybe some, but I doubt the "vast majority" of (modern) laptops.
I reckon most households would be quite happy having it as
their sole system.
I reckon you're wrong on that.
I despise a touchscreen and/or a virtual keyboard. Most people I
know would agree. For some things of short duration and limitied
typing requirements, they're fine, but not for most of the things
that I do with a computer. Not even close. Not even in the same
ballpark.
Like others have said, tablets and phones have
replaced desktops and laptops.
Really? Where do you get all your wisdom to arrive at these sage
and all-encompassing conclusions?
Firstly, yes... a newer iPad Pro is much more powerful than the
VAST majority of cheaper and even mid-ranged laptops out there.
Secondly, desktops are all but dead in the modern household. Here
in BBS land, there will be a high percentage of people with
desktop machines, but in the real world, they are uncommon and
become more and more uncommon.
Thirdly, the average person does NOT need a desktop/laptop
computer. A modern smartphone or tablet will do.
There are of course certain use cases for something MORE
substantial so I am not speaking for ALL people.
They are probably less common than they were a couple of decades
ago, yes... but many of those desktops have been replaced by
*LAPTOPS*. Not by silly toy tablets. Tablets have dramatically
increased in usage, but they are not replacing real computers,
they are being added to the arsenal of available tools. They're
great for quick-n-dirty tasks like checking email or texting or
watching Youtube. Yep. Have you tried doing some programming on
one? Have you tried playing a modern (big) game on one? How do
they work for editing large spreadsheets/docs/databases? How
about editing some video or music? How are they at running
whatever Linux distro I choose to use? Can I run a BBS on a
tablet? Yeah........... Oh, and how's their printer support?
Thirdly, the average person does NOT need a desktop/laptop
computer. A modern smartphone or tablet will do.
For most people, that's utter bullshit. I've rarely seen anyone
so clueless about such things.
Thirdly, the average person does NOT need a desktop/laptop computer. A modern smartphone or tablet will do. There are of course certain use cases for something MORE substantial so I am not speaking for ALL people.
On 10/2/2020 3:45 PM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
I think some of the sleeper builds in older computer cases are really
cool.
I saw a Core i7 running in an Apple Quadra 700 case. Loved it, that was on
If I could get an ADB to USB convertor, an Apple extended keyboard and mou
I've thought several times about getting a Power 5 mac pro (cheese
grater) or other similar case mac and putting a modern system in it...
there are some relatively complete kits for making the mods.
Not a fan of the apple keyboards, and definitely not their mice.
--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
A few years back we had a coffee maker where you would pour whole
coffee beans into the top. You would then set a timer and it would
grind the beans for you & drop them into the coffee filter before
brewing.
I would imagine the noise from the coffee grinder could potentially wake you up though - Not very ideal for letting you get a few minutes of extra sleep while your coffee brews for you.
First off, pretty much any mid-grade or higher system built in the last 5-8 years is more than sufficient, and *might* do well with a ram (or SSD) upgrade alone.
Never again. I enjoy helping people with their computers but some are just too much to deal with.
This is why I stopped doing computer work "on the side" for friends & most family. I'll still fix my Mom's computer, becaus
well, she's my Mom.
Jay
On 10-05-20 10:50, HusTler wrote to Vk3jed <=-
People Suck! ;-)
I would never do phone support again
On 10-05-20 12:07, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
There are some great stories over at:
https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport
On 10-05-20 15:45, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was actually in the call center walking to lunch when the agent on
the Compaq side had the "broken cup holder." He popped up, because he
had to tell someone else right then, "hold on a moment," putting the customer on hold, flagging down myself and a couple others, "this
lady's cupholder is broken," snickering... "huh?" as a response. "She thinks the CD tray is a frikkin cupholder..." he just couldn't stop snickering... took a couple minutes to compose himself.
My worst story, was a guy that was worried about the power during a
storm and his Dr. thesis paper getting backed up... after about 15m of checking the cables, etc... I'm like, "Can you put the flashlight down,
an just pull the computer out into the light so you can see it better?" and he's like, "Not really, the power is out." Lending credence to the idea that you cannot make anything "idiot proof" because god will build
a better idiot.
On 10-05-20 12:55, Moondog wrote to Jon Justvig <=-
The secret to phone support is asking the right questions, and speaking
in terms that the person on the other end can understand. The person
on the other end is going to have to be your eyes and hands, unless you have access to a slick remote tool such as Bomgar, and an internet connection.
On 10-05-20 13:32, Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-
I tend to agree - Several (I'd say most) of my friends & family members (and myself) still use a desktop PC. But many of my friends & family
are either tech-savvy or just used to using a desktop. I've realized
I'm now in an older generation, at 40 years old, who are used to
certain older ways of doing things. But I'm also fairly tech-savvy and work as a software engineer, which contributes to me using a desktop PC
at home. I also like PC gaming (which still seems fairly popular among younger people).
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 9/13/2020 8:20 PM, Dennisk wrote:
Coffee is not really my cup of tea.
A lot of the crap that is added onto software is to accomodate edge
cases, and other vagaries. Someone decides that software X should be
able to do Y and it gets put in, despite Y not being all the important.
Web browsers are the perfect example. They are made to be able to do so much stuff, where they should NEVER have been. Web browsers are to
browse the web. At the point where people wanted networked
applications, a different route should have been chosen. Now the requirements to look at a PLAIN HTML web page in terms of CPU and memory neeeded are shameful (well, unless you're wiling to go way off the
beaten track.)
At this point, there isn't a better rich client option than the
browser.
It's cross platform, offers a lot of modern development features and with web-assembly or TypeScript it's pretty much got whatever people
want in the box.
Things to consider that the browser does do that MANY other client platforms don't is accessibility interfaces. It's rarely a first
thought, unless it's a legal requirement for you. All the apps I work
on require AA accessibility rating and full non-mouse, unsighted interfaces, thought the applciation that is used to review scanned
images is of limited use.
The performance on modern hardware is fine, and has been for half a
decade or more.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 9/13/2020 8:25 PM, Dennisk wrote:
This is exactly my point. We are very good at pushing up system requirements thereby compelling people to by new hardware, but we don't
know what to do with the old stuff, and I do agree that much if what you
CAN do with them, you can do with a Raspberry Pi anyway.
This just increases the need to ensure that software development is
aimed at working on existing hardware, so that you don't have to discard
the old stuff.
Our philosophy on resource management is all wrong.
So, you would rather spend $1m+ for developers to optimize vs. $10k on faster hardware? Not to mention, no new feature development while optimizing.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 9/13/2020 8:33 PM, Dennisk wrote:
"only need facebook".
That is the problem. Facebook runs like an absolute DOG on anything
old. I have an older laptop, and it is barely usable.
So if ALL that someone wants to do, is tell Aunt Lucy about their veggie patch and share a picture, they'll need to get on this upgrade/discard/destroy our natural environment train.
First off, pretty much any mid-grade or higher system built in the last 5-8 years is more than sufficient, and *might* do well with a ram (or
SSD) upgrade alone.
All those materials, those resources, the energy that went into it, the animals killed, the natural habitat lost due to mining of minerals, the toxic chemical created during the production process, the
heavy metals from e-waste leeching into our waterways so that we can
ingest that poison back when we have tuna bake, because our wise
developers and software engineers make such garbage.
This is the opposite of what any species which wants a long term future needs to do. But I bet these tech assholes think they are all for sustainability, etc.
Well, you get an IBM XT to support a 4K monitor, and we'll talk.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 07:34 pm
Thirdly, the average person does NOT need a desktop/laptop
computer. A modern smartphone or tablet will do.
For most people, that's utter bullshit. I've rarely seen anyone
so clueless about such things.
I agree totally. A lot of people I know have a laptop or
desktop, for more serious tasks than simple gaming and checking
their email. And especially now, with the covid situation, a lot
of teachers & students are going to classes online from home, and
I think a tablet wouldn't be quite enough in all cases.
Still have to get a PSU for my Apple II. :( But the FloppyEMU looks interesting. :)
I am quite happy with the home PC, laptops and RPi. I don't even
have a temptation of getting an iPad.
It may "seem" they have been replaced, but in fact, it probably has to
do with the people you associate yourself with that have such devices.
I know of only a handful of people that use iAnything and that is
counting the number of fingers on my hand.
After many years of retro-mania I discovered that this is more about specific software not hardware I long for.
I want to run the customized Workbench experience instead of touching real amiga, I want to play old games with a proper joystick not on keyboard emulating joystick.
All that feeling with a real apps is what drives people back to old hardware, but this can be achieved in many different ways.
Yep. And Windows 9x.
i just tried windows 95b and it wont install past the first part.
like when it tells you to hit enter
There was a time when the thought was that tablets would push out other devices but the market development never went in that direction. Tablets fill a need for sure but that doesn't extend to the whole house.
Ahhhh, so now you're changing your story. You didn't include the
"cheaper and even mid-ranged" part in your original statement. I
quoted it right up there at the top if you'd like to refresh your
memory. So again, an iPad Pro is *NOT* "considerably more
powerful" than the vast majority of laptops. Close the book on
that one, you lose.
They are probably less common than they were a couple of decades
ago, yes... but many of those desktops have been replaced by
*LAPTOPS*. Not by silly toy tablets. Tablets have dramatically
increased in usage, but they are not replacing real computers,
they are being added to the arsenal of available tools. They're
great for quick-n-dirty tasks like checking email or texting or
watching Youtube. Yep. Have you tried doing some programming on
one? Have you tried playing a modern (big) game on one? How do
they work for editing large spreadsheets/docs/databases? How
about editing some video or music? How are they at running
whatever Linux distro I choose to use? Can I run a BBS on a
tablet? Yeah........... Oh, and how's their printer support?
A real-world example is the hybrid learning environment many high schoolers find themselves faced with this year. My son's school opted to use Google Classrooms and Google Meet and also provided each student with a Chromebook. This hardware pales in comparison with the iPad Pro.. until you factor in cost and form factor.
Even the 2-in-1 chromebook my son got (because he's on an IEP) cost 1/4 of what an iPad Pro would. Also, you've got a built-in keyboard and pointing device wihout adding a signle peripheral.
as an all-in-one device than I ever thought they would. Trends and statistics do show that households, en-masse, no longer require a desktop PC.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Jon Justvig to Gamgee on Mon Oct 05 2020 04:36 am
I am quite happy with the home PC, laptops and RPi. I don't even
have a temptation of getting an iPad.
It may "seem" they have been replaced, but in fact, it probably has to
do with the people you associate yourself with that have such devices.
I know of only a handful of people that use iAnything and that is
counting the number of fingers on my hand.
I did not suggest that PCs and laptops do not have any use. I was
saying that PCs in the AVERAGE household have been phased out, and
laptops appear to be heading in the same direction. Laptops are popular still, I have one which I use on a regular basis. The market share for
desktops has halved between 2010 and 2020... and this includes business
use. The reality is, desktops are becoming less and less popular. As
phones become ridiculously powerful and expensive, people are using
them more and more as their all in one device. I am talking about
average households along with young folk who own powerful smart phones,
gaming consoles and tablets. I am discussing consumer trends. I am not telling you that do NOT need a desktop/laptop and EVERYONE should have
an iPad and a flagship smartphone. I am definitely NOT talking about people who, like yourself, dabble in niche devices such as Raspberry
Pi's. I am referring to average households who only use technology for entertainment, social media, web browsing/online shopping, instant messenger and video content.
English people had a more low-tech solution - a Teasmade. It's a cool looking retro-deco looking bedroom alarm clock with a kettle and a
light. The alarm goes off, the light turns on, and the water boils.
Tea in bed.
Phones are eating into the market though and have become much more usable as an all-in-one device than I ever thought they would.
As folding screen technology improves, and we begin to see larger
displays in smaller form factors, we should see an even larger uptake of mobile devices in the household and an further edging out of devices such as laptops and tablets.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Hatton on Tue Oct 06 2020 03:31 pm
as an all-in-one device than I ever thought they would. Trends and statistics do show that households, en-masse, no longer require a desktop PC.
Part of me finds that hard to believe. I guess in the strictest sense,
a desktop may not be "required", as a laptop is not a desktop, but what makes me very skeptical is that a real keyboard is a lot better to type on, and it can be good to have a screen that's bigger than a tablet screen. Even for an ordinary task like writing an email, a good screen and a real keyboard to type the email on really helps. I find that
typing on a virtual keyboard on a tablet & such a bit frustrating,
because I don't type as fast on those virtual keyboards. I learned to touch-type a long time ago, which I thought would be an essential skill
in an era of computers. I think the ability to type fast helps with
even everyday things like writing an email, or even a text message. I also like the tactile feedback (which is part of being able to touch-type). I find it hard to believe that people would be totally
okay with something like a virtual on-screen keyboard, which takes
longer to type on and takes up part of the screen that could be used
for other things, like displaying more of the message you're typing, or perhaps a game you're playing, etc..
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to BlaZ on Mon Oct 05 2020 08:51 pm
Yep. And Windows 9x.
i just tried windows 95b and it wont install past the first part.
like when it tells you to hit enter
Check out DOSBox-X. It's a DOSBox branch and Win9x install works great. Just change the dosbox.conf option core=auto to core=normal and you should be good to go.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 02:11 pm
Secondly, desktops are all but dead in the modern household. Here in
BBS land, there will be a high percentage of people wit desktop
machines, but in the real world, they are uncommon and become more
and more uncommon.
Hmmmmm. I haven't had a desktop since 2004. Once the price of laptops fell below $600 bucks and no desk, I abandoned desktops. Space is still an issue and I enjoy sitting at the kitchen table with my coffee and laptop. I'm always looking at desktops but the space thing keeps coming up. I miss my computer room I had when I was married and owned a home. I lost that room to a daughter and now I'm a dedicated laptop/netbook guy. ;-)
... Children are a comfort in old age, and they will even help you reach
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Tue Oct 06 2020 08:10 am
Hard for me to understand how this Andeddu goof cannot get this.
I think he's probably one of those who walk down a sidewalk with a
phone permanantly implanted in front of his face, pecking away at
it and updating his Instagram status. Tunnel vision and no
big-picture awareness.
I dunno.. And maybe also wireless earbuds permanently worn in
the ears all the time too.
Andeddu wrote to Hatton <=-
There was a time when the thought was that tablets would push out other devices but the market development never went in that direction. Tablets fill a need for sure but that doesn't extend to the whole house.
Yes, I did overstate the popularity of tablets in the household.
I was talking through anecdotal observations which was the wrong
thing to do. Phones are eating into the market though and have
become much more usable as an all-in-one device than I ever
thought they would. Trends and statistics do show that
households, en-masse, no longer require a desktop PC.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 07:34 pm
Ahhhh, so now you're changing your story. You didn't include the
"cheaper and even mid-ranged" part in your original statement. I
quoted it right up there at the top if you'd like to refresh your
memory. So again, an iPad Pro is *NOT* "considerably more
powerful" than the vast majority of laptops. Close the book on
that one, you lose.
They are probably less common than they were a couple of decades
ago, yes... but many of those desktops have been replaced by
*LAPTOPS*. Not by silly toy tablets. Tablets have dramatically
increased in usage, but they are not replacing real computers,
they are being added to the arsenal of available tools. They're
great for quick-n-dirty tasks like checking email or texting or
watching Youtube. Yep. Have you tried doing some programming on
one? Have you tried playing a modern (big) game on one? How do
they work for editing large spreadsheets/docs/databases? How
about editing some video or music? How are they at running
whatever Linux distro I choose to use? Can I run a BBS on a
tablet? Yeah........... Oh, and how's their printer support?
Now you're just being silly. Low-mid ranged laptops ARE the vast
majority of laptops. I have an i7-8750H/GTX1080 laptop capable of
kicking the ass of several iPad Pros, but it's not your typical
laptop!
For your second point, I am referring to AVERAGE users. I am not
talking about programmers, hardcore gamers, people trying to
carry out productivity on a tablet/phone (ridiculous),
music/video editing or Linux (lol) and BBSing (again, lol).
Chances are, if you're into computing/technology, a tablet would
not be suitable for your needs. Tablets have decent printer
support, actually. The HP WiFi printers work well with them.
Not a fan of the apple keyboards, and definitely not their mice.
Can you imagine the horror when I tell you that on my modern Mac I use a trackpad? And I love using it. :)
I got fed up of solving computer issues for family and then not being given a "thank you".
More like "Hey, my computer if broken" ($me fixes computer) "Now get lost you Linux geek".
Nowadays I bill for presential support, no exceptions.
(Bonus points if they boast an easy to use operating system after you do ALL the system maintenance for them because they are
incapable of installing a simple program)
Most people seem to have at least a laptop, but I have encountered an increasing number of people who do all of their Internet on a phone. Dunno how
they do that, would drive me batty, though I have noticed that my new iPhone is
really good for quickly getting through FB notifications. :) I still use a number of desktops. :)
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Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Warpslide on Mon Oct 05 2020 01:29 pm
A few years back we had a coffee maker where you would pour whole
coffee beans into the top. You would then set a timer and it would
grind the beans for you & drop them into the coffee filter before
brewing.
I would imagine the noise from the coffee grinder could potentially wake you up though - Not very ideal for letting you get a few minutes of extra sleep while your coffee brews for you.
It certanly wasn't silent, so you could hear it going off in the
morning. But not loud enough to really disturb you while sleeping.
The grinding was less than a minute if I remember correctly.
But of course this was all moot because it didn't work often enough to
be considered reliable.
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Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Hatton to paulie420 on Mon Oct 05 2020 11:35 am
There was a time when the thought was that tablets would push out other devices but the market development never went in that direction. Tablets fill a need for sure but that doesn't extend to the whole house.
Yes, I did overstate the popularity of tablets in the household. I was talking through anecdotal observations which was the wrong thing to do. Phones are eating into the market though and have become much more
usable as an all-in-one device than I ever thought they would. Trends
and statistics do show that households, en-masse, no longer require a desktop PC. As folding screen technology improves, and we begin to see larger displays in smaller form factors, we should see an even larger uptake of mobile devices in the household and an further edging out of devices such as laptops and tablets.
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Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 07:34 pm
For your second point, I am referring to AVERAGE users. I am not
talking about programmers, hardcore gamers, people trying to carry out productivity on a tablet/phone (ridiculous), music/video editing or
Linux (lol) and BBSing (again, lol). Chances are, if you're into computing/technology, a tablet would not be suitable for your needs. Tablets have decent printer support, actually. The HP WiFi printers
work well with them.
I am not talking about the corporate/business enviroment, nor am I
talking about people with specialised uses for computers. I am
referring to teenagers and young adults who consume content on Youtube, Prime, Netflix, etc... browse social media, are addicted to instant messeging and online shopping. These people are able to satisfy all
their needs on a phone rather than a PC or a laptop. These people are unlikely to purchase desktop PCs once they move into their own homes.
On 10-06-20 14:40, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/AMSTRAD
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 08:07 pm
Still have to get a PSU for my Apple II. :( But the FloppyEMU looks interesting. :)
Is it the original 1978 Apple II that you have? I'd urge you to pick up
a suitable PSU and get that thing back on again. FloppyEMU is great...
you can go on Macintosh Garden and pick up software. I purchased a
microSD card as part of the bundle which included a lot of
pre-installed software for my Macintosh Plus such as several terminal applications, word processors (MacWrite and Microsoft Word) along with MacPaint and some of the more iconic games to be released on the
system. Included also are images of System 1-8. All this modern tech,
such as the FloppyEMU and my WiFi serial adaptor has made dealing with these vintage machines hassle free. I would really have struggled
messing about with something like Raspberry Pi were it not for these
newer plug and play innovations.
On 10-03-20 10:29, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
As callers started tapering off on my dial-up Maximus BBS, I found
myself using TimED to read messages on the BBS, and realized I hadn't
actually logged in to the BBS in weeks. That was when I knew I needed
a break.
On 10-03-20 10:35, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/REALITY
Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I ran Warp 3 Connect and had no issues, Windows apps could use the same NIC as OS/2.
Oh, yeah - it could. I just couldn't figure it out. I was also the
only network guy, had a closet full of NICs and 2 drops. It was
easier to punt. :(
Yeah, I drifted to NT4 from OS/2, then Windows 2000.
I worked in Telecom for most of my career, and I was amazed at how
often NT4 would pop up. Northern Telecom used NT 4 embedded in their
voicemail systems for years; since they were behind a firewall and
never saw the internet directly it wasn't a big deal. But a little
startling to log into it after not seeing it for years.
On 10-06-20 08:36, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yeah, I'm not sure how people do that. But there are some things (like Facebook and others) that work okay on a phone. I think Facebook can
be a little annoying on a phone at times though. These days, Facebook
on a phone wants you to use their separate Messenger app to instant-message people on Facebook, but I don't want to have to use a separate app for that. Usually on my phone I use Facebook through the
web browser (rather than the dedicated Facebook app), and on the web browser, if I want to message someone, I'll have the browser request
the desktop version of the site, which I can use to message someone. Otherwise (if I'm using their mobile web site or app), if I want to message someone, it will say I need to use the Facebook Messenger app.
It used to be that you could easily message someone even from their
mobile web site or Facebook phone app.
On 10-06-20 19:57, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'd say outside of work, around 50% of my internet use is streaming/youtube and the other half is done mostly on my phone.
On 10-06-20 22:29, Dennisk wrote to Tracker1 <=-
Web apps aren't that great. I've used online apps, and 9 times out of
10, a native version is better. I've used web based applications, and
its always a pain in the ass. If the browser is the best, that is a
sorry state.
My child has to do home schooling. She has to switch between browsers, because neither Firefox, Opera or Brave can properly use the total set
of web-apps that she has to use. One site may work with Brave, not Firefox, and the other, vice versa. I do online banking, find some
widget doesn't work, go to another browser, and it works.
On 10-06-20 15:15, Andeddu wrote to hollowone <=-
Yes, a lot of people are looking for a sentimental nostalgic experience and, as such, they long for something authentic. This can be achieved
in several different ways, the least efficient of which is by doing it though the original hardware.
I am more of a hardware guy myself so tracking down the original
machines and accessories would be important to me.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Hatton on Tue Oct 06 2020 03:31 pm
as an all-in-one device than I ever thought they would. Trends and statistics do show that households, en-masse, no lon
require a desktop PC.
Part of me finds that hard to believe. I guess in the strictest sense, a desktop may not be "required", as a laptop is not
desktop, but what makes me very skeptical is that a real keyboard is a lot better to type on, and it can be good to have a
screen that's bigger than a tablet screen. Even for an ordinary task like writing an email, a good screen and a real keyboa
to type the email on really helps. I find that typing on a virtual keyboard on a tablet & such a bit frustrating, because I
don't type as fast on those virtual keyboards. I learned to touch-type a long time ago, which I thought would be an essenti
skill in an era of computers. I think the ability to type fast helps with even everyday things like writing an email, or ev
a text message. I also like the tactile feedback (which is part of being able to touch-type). I find it hard to believe tha
people would be totally okay with something like a virtual on-screen keyboard, which takes longer to type on and takes up pa
of the screen that could be used for other things, like displaying more of the message you're typing, or perhaps a game you'
playing, etc..
Nightfox
On 10/6/2020 2:31 AM, Arelor wrote:
I got fed up of solving computer issues for family and then not being given a "thank you".
More like "Hey, my computer if broken" ($me fixes computer) "Now get lost you Linux geek".
Nowadays I bill for presential support, no exceptions.
(Bonus points if they boast an easy to use operating system after you do ALL the system maintenance for them because they
incapable of installing a simple program)
My price for doing "favors" of fixing a computer... is the person in question in a seat next to me without a cell phone for distraction. I'm happy to talk, ask question etc... but the cost is as much of their time
as they are taking of mine.
--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
I always find the on-screen typing, especially the virtual keyboard on the screen always gets in the way. I, myself, find type touch essential.
Typing on a keyboard has always been great for me as that was the way I learned to type. I don't think this method is going to go away anytime soon as a lot of people like you and myself find real keyboards and a bigger screen a more realistic way of communicating via e-mail or texting.
I always find the on-screen typing, especially the virtual keyboard on the screen always gets in the way. I, myself, find type touch essential.
Typing on a keyboard has always been great for me as that was the way I learned to type. I don't think this method is going to go away anytime soon as a lot of people like you and myself find real keyboards and a bigger screen a more realistic way of communicating via e-mail or texting.
Hmmmmm. I haven't had a desktop since 2004. Once the price of laptops fell below $600 bucks and no desk, I abandoned desktops. Space is still an issue and I enjoy sitting at the kitchen table with my coffee and laptop. I'm always looking at desktops but the space thing keeps coming up. I miss my computer room I had when I was married and owned a home. I lost that room to a daughter and now I'm a dedicated laptop/netbook guy. ;-)
Don't forget about built-in 4g. I could imagine a minimalist having
just an tablet with a keyboard case, 4G and a TV that didn't do much
more than cast the picture from a tablet. Skip cable TV, internet, a
cable modem or DSL modem, wireless router, the laptop and everything
else.
i have a laptop sitting on a rack next to my desk but i never use it. i cant stand laptops.
Dunno how they do that, would drive me batty, though I have noticed that my new iPhone is really good for quickly getting through FB
notifications. :) I still use a number of desktops. :)
Part of me finds that hard to believe. I guess in the strictest sense, a desktop may not be "required", as a laptop is not a desktop, but what makes me very skeptical is that a real
keyboard is a lot better to type on, and it can be good to have a screen that's bigger than a tablet screen. Even for an ordinary task like writing an email, a good screen and a real
keyboard to type the email on really helps. I find that typing on a virtual keyboard on a tablet & such a bit frustrating, because I don't type as fast on those virtual keyboards. I
learned to touch-type a long time ago, which I thought would be an essential skill in an era of computers. I think the ability to type fast helps with even everyday things like writing
an
email, or even a text message. I also like the tactile feedback (which is part of being able to touch-type). I find it hard to believe that people would be totally okay with something
like
a virtual on-screen keyboard, which takes longer to type on and takes up part of the screen that could be used for other things, like displaying more of the message you're typing, or
perhaps a game you're playing, etc..
on a phone wants you to use their separate Messenger app to
instant-message people on Facebook, but I don't want to have to use
a separate app for that. Usually on my phone I use Facebook through
the
Again, Android makes this a bit easier to access, by having a little messenger "bubble" on screen. iOS versions don't do this.
I tend to dislike the mobile versions of the sites, compared to the apps. And that reminds me of an annoyance I've had, at loeast on Android, where some app links bring up the mobile web app, instead of the actual app, and in some cases, that breaks things.
I don't know about others, but when I was in school and college, I had to do a lot of homework that involved computers. You are just going to have a very bad time writing a homework essay on a smartphone, do household accounting, or sorting bills. These are things the average non-techie-nerdy user does that are not very well served by small factor mini-machines.
--- MOONDOG wrote --
On a discussion forum I visit there is a member who bought and Altai emulator which recreates the front panel, and runs off an arduin microcontroller. I showed him a link to a Pet 2001 kit and a Sinclair ZX which both require soldering components to a circuit board, and he bough both to recreate pc's from his past. if my Pet 2001-8 requires more than few roms replaced, I might order the DIY replacement drop-in board kit. Since it uses modern components, it takes up a fraction of the pc's interi
Memory and rom chips are the parts which could be consolidated into singl IC's
I just ordered one of those... or something like it... Not quite sure what I'm going to do with it after it turns up and I solder it together...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Gamgee on Mon Oct 05 2020 11:52 am
Secondly, desktops are all but dead in the modern household. Here in BBS desktop machines, but in the real world, they are uncommon and become mor
ALL my IRL friends have a desktop or workstation at home and use it.
People is adding smartphones and tablets to their digital life but they are
--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
On 10/2/2020 3:45 PM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
I think some of the sleeper builds in older computer cases are really
cool.
I saw a Core i7 running in an Apple Quadra 700 case. Loved it, that was on
If I could get an ADB to USB convertor, an Apple extended keyboard and mou
I've thought several times about getting a Power 5 mac pro (cheese
grater) or other similar case mac and putting a modern system in it...
there are some relatively complete kits for making the mods.
Not a fan of the apple keyboards, and definitely not their mice.
--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: hollowone to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 10:08 am
After many years of retro-mania I discovered that this is more about specific software not hardware I long for.
I want to run the customized Workbench experience instead of touching rea amiga, I want to play old games with a proper joystick not on keyboard emulating joystick.
All that feeling with a real apps is what drives people back to old hardware, but this can be achieved in many different ways.
Yes, a lot of people are looking for a sentimental nostalgic experience and, such, they long for something authentic. This can be achieved in several different ways, the least efficient of which is by doing it though the origi hardware.
I am more of a hardware guy myself so tracking down the original machines an accessories would be important to me.
Part of me finds that hard to believe. I guess in the strictest sense, a desktop may not be "required", as a laptop is not a desktop, but what makes me very skeptical is that a real keyboard is a lot better to type on, and it can be good to have a screen that's bigger than a tablet screen. Even for an ordinary task like writing an email, a good screen and a real keyboard to type the email on really helps. I find that typing on a virtual keyboard on a tablet & such a bit frustrating, because I don't type as fast on those virtual keyboards. I learned to touch-type a long time ago, which I thought would be an essential skill in an era of computers. I think the ability to type fast helps with even everyday things like writing an email, or even a text message. I also like the tactile feedback (which is part of being able to touch-type). I find it hard to believe that people would be totally okay with something like a virtual on-screen keyboard, which takes longer to type on and takes up part of the screen that could be used for other things, like displaying more of the message you're typing, or perhaps a game you're playing, etc..
PCs and laptops have a lot of good use. PCs in particularly seem to have been around forever, at least since the 80s. Why would they be replaced?
saying that PCs in the AVERAGE household have been phased out, and
Not my household.
Laptops are a great asset, there's much you can do with them. I do not prefer the iAnything method. About the only thing I have from Apple is an iPod I use to listen to music with since. If I would have kept my battery supply that you plug into usb, I could walk around listening to music on
my RPi.
Agreed, smartphones have become much more prevalent. Part of me wonders though how much of that is being driven by carriers versus consumers.
As folding screen technology improves, and we begin to see larger displays in smaller form factors, we should see an even larger uptake of mobile devices in the household and an further edging out of devices such as laptops and tablets.
I can't say that I agree with that analysis. There is a cost of entry for foldables is prohibitive for most casual users. Until you have proven technology that is affordable and able to handle the full day workload, they're more novelty than anything at this point.
So, which is it (anecdotal observations, or trends and statistics)
that show this?
Could you provide any sources/references to these "trends", and
even better - the statistics that show this?
Now you're backpedaling like crazy. That's what happens when you
speak in sweeping generalities, and use words like "everyone",
"nobody", "always", "never"; and somebody calls you on it.
Again, you didn't mention low-mid range laptops in your original
post. You just said "an iPad blows away all laptops"
(paraphrasing, admittedly), and "nobody needs a desktop". You
also never used the word AVERAGE in regards to users. Perhaps you
should speak more carefully/specifically when talking about things
that include/affect large numbers of people, eh?
And a day or two ago AT&T sent an Instant Message to my Go-Phone saying
they would be soon offering 5G service and the 3G service would be NO MORE that my Go-Phone uses.
I thought of using a Spreadsheet on the Tablet to keep track of Store Prices just as We used to keep the entries in the book updated.
I'm not sure now because I don't know if the entries I make to the Spreadsheet are kept on the Tablet or sent over the internet for Google to keep the data for Me.
I want to use the Spreadsheet OFFLINE just like I read and write BBS Messages. I want MY STUFF on the Tablet to be ONLY accessible to Me (unless I want to share something with another person).
The Mac stuff isn't a lot of use here. :/
I do have a wifi serial adapter but never got it configured. The one card I lack, actually, is a serial card.
I am more of a hardware guy myself so tracking down the original machines and accessories would be important to me.
That's one reason I'm more interested in original hardware. Another is being able to show it off as a (working) piece of history.
Emulators are great, but they can't do everything.
I disagree. Perhaps it's true for someone like you, however the younger generation (Gen-Z) seem to have no trouble whatsoever using a virtual keyboard. I am 35 so I am positively middle aged when it comes to these
keyboard. I am 35 so I am positively middle aged when it comes to these sort of discussions but I have encountered no problems typing quickly on an iPad or iPhone. Predictive text can also speed things up substantially
Gaming is a different ball game though... no one likes gaming on a touch screen, unless the game your playing is a point-and-click adventure title.
For some reason, I would think that someone walking around with a RPi listening to music is not exactly the kind of person I was referring to. Most people, such as almost the entire population, have no idea what a RPi is. I think this is evidence enough that when I talk about average households, and average users, you are not the kind of person I am referring to.
I believe the person I was replying to posted up evidence of this. Desktop PCs are half as popular as they were in 2010 and current trends show a decline into the 2020s. Anecdotally, I no longer see households with desktop PCs in them and the people I know who used to own desktop PCs have replaced them with laptops and tablets.
There's something special about having the original hardware. CRT monitors, clunky keyboards, floppy disks, etc... these things are half the experience for me. You can't emulate that!
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Jon Justvig to Nightfox on Tue Oct 06 2020 07:04 pm
I always find the on-screen typing, especially the virtual keyboard on the screen always gets in the way. I, myself, find type touch essential.
Typing on a keyboard has always been great for me as that was the way I learned to type. I don't think this method is going to go away anytime soon as a lot of people like you and myself find real keyboards and a bigger screen a more realistic way of communicating via e-mail or texting.
I also prefer using a keyboard. However many of the younger
generation never learned to type on a keyboard. Once they get a smart phone they pick up typing on it very quickly. I really like the "suggestions" on my smartphone and would love to see that when I'm
typing messages on my terminal.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Jon Justvig to Nightfox on Tue Oct 06 2020 07:04 pm
I always find the on-screen typing, especially the virtual keyboard on the screen always gets in the way. I, myself, find type touch essential.
Typing on a keyboard has always been great for me as that was the way I learned to type. I don't think this method is going to go away anytime soon as a lot of people like you and myself find real keyboards and a bigger screen a more realistic way of communicating via e-mail or texting.
In High School I took a typing class just to be with my Girl Friend. I didn't think I would acutually use the skill. Boy was I wrong about
that. ;-)
question in a seat next to me without a cell phone for distraction. I'm happy to talk, ask question etc... but the cost is as much of their time as they are taking of mine.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to HusTler on Tue Oct 06 2020 08:37 pm
i have a laptop sitting on a rack next to my desk but i never use it.
i cant stand laptops.
What do you need a "rack" for? Do you provide some type of services?
On 10-07-20 09:47, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yes, but it still wants you to use their separate Messenger app to send messages to other Facebook users. It used to be that the messanging feature was built into the Facebook app (and their mobile web site),
but not anymore.
Mobile web sites seem to be fairly similar to dedicated apps. I
sometimes just don't like having to have a separate app running for everything. And I don't really like staying logged into Facebook on my phone all the time. If I use the Facebook app, I'll log out and close
the app when I'm done. I find it easier to just use their web site,
and with the web browser & the Facebook page, it remembers my
credentials, so I can just open the Facebook page and close that tab
when I'm done.
On 10-07-20 16:36, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Ah, I wasn't sure if Macintosh Garden had Apple II/III compatible
images on their website. There are websites that have all the
programmes available for download. If you ever do get the Apple II up
and running you should check out the Captains Quarters BBS (cqbbs.ddns.net:6502) which is where you'll find the foremost experts
on Apple IIs on the internet.
It's a shame you don't have a serial port on your Apple II... I thought they were included and not third-party. Getting that machine online
would be pretty awesome, hope you're able to pull it off someday!
On 10-07-20 16:44, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
There's something special about having the original hardware. CRT monitors, clunky keyboards, floppy disks, etc... these things are half
the experience for me. You can't emulate that!
The auto-fill is good when dealing with grammar, but auto-correct can be annoying sometimes.
What do you need a "rack" for? Do you provide some type of services?
i just have a black powder coated rack next to my desk. i put all my shit on
Yes, but it still wants you to use their separate Messenger app to
send messages to other Facebook users. It used to be that the
messanging feature was built into the Facebook app (and their mobile
web site), but not anymore.
That was a very long time ago. But at least the way Android does Messenger feels more like something in the phone.
The auto-fill is good when dealing with grammar, but auto-correct
can be annoying sometimes.
Ducking auto-correct...
I have seen the same thing happen when I live. I think 4G service is good >enough in most areas that carriers are looking to drop support for 3G. I don't >have a 5G phone so I am tempted to pick up the cheapest iPhone 12 on release as
they are going to be future-proof.
Authenticity beats out efficiency depending on why you are going retro. I would be happy with a C64 Maxi for the games and properly proptioned keyboard for key positon and feel. Others may want to hassle with 360k floppy drives a nd data cassettes because that is part of the experience they wish to recreate.
Well I often see a lot of typos & errors that are probably caused by predictive text gone wrong, etc.. I'd think people would still benefit from learning to touch-type on a real keyboard. So even though some people might feel okay using a virtual mobile keyboard, the fact remains that typing on a real keyboard can often be better, especially when you learn to touch-type. That was my point. I mean, I'd use a mobile keyboard if I'm using my smartphone or whatever, but it has its flaws. But since I've been touch-typing for so many years, I tend to type a lot faster on a real keyboard, so I guess I don't have as much patience when typing on a virtual mobile keyboard.
Also I'm not going to necessarily want to type a long message or email on a virtual keyboard. I could type it out much faster on a real keyboard.
So what do you mean by "quickly"? How many words per minute do you mean?
There was an episode of the TV show "God Friended Me" where they mentioned someone buying a Raspberry Pi for $10,000 for hacking purposes. I thought that was funny and weird, because a Raspberry Pi doesn't cost anywhere near that much (you can buy one for around $100 or so). It goes to show you most people don't know what a Raspberry Pi is.
Functionally, laptops and desktops can be used for about the same tasks, so I see those as fairly close as far as usage. I think tablets are in a bit of a different category.
I agree. I've thought about buying a retro computer - I lived through the 80s and 90s when home PCs were still fairly new and technology was increasing rapidly, so it's nostalgic for me. But at the same time, I'm not sure what I'd do with a retro computer these days. And I've used them before, so I already know what they're all about.
True! :) A monitor is something else I'll have to source, though I do have a modded TV that will work in a pinch (monochrome/greyscale only). I used to have a nice composite monitor that I used to use as a TV (with the help of a VCR as a tuner), but it got lost along the way. :(
People probably used to believe that 3G, 32-bit PCs, etc., were also future proof. :)
Nightfox wrote to Jon Justvig <=-
After watching Star Trek: The Next Generation, sometimes I want some
tea, Earl Grey, hot.
Moondog wrote to hollowone <=-
On a discussion forum I visit there is a member who bought and Altair emulator which recreates the front panel, and runs off an arduino microcontroller. I showed him a link to a Pet 2001 kit and a Sinclair
ZX kit which both require soldering components to a circuit board, and
he bought both to recreate pc's from his past. if my Pet 2001-8
requires more than a few roms replaced, I might order the DIY
replacement drop-in board kit. Since it uses modern components, it
takes up a fraction of the pc's interior.
Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yes, like "war stories" for tech support people. :)
There are some great stories over at:
https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport
kf5qeo wrote to Moondog <=-
the coffee makers at the truck stop I work at already does that. you
just push the brew button and it makes the coffee. a permanent filter
can be made, but you'd need to empty it each time, but wouldmake it
nice if you didn't have to measure out the coffee grinds. John Guillory
Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Not a fan of the apple keyboards, and definitely not their mice.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-
At this point, there isn't a better rich client option than the
browser.
It's cross platform, offers a lot of modern development features and with web-assembly or TypeScript it's pretty much got whatever people
want in the box.
Hatton wrote to Andeddu <=-
You're falling into the problem of form vs function here. While your assumption that the computing needs of "the average person" aren't much more than a high-end smart device, nether the OS nor the interface of
said device fit the application needs of most of those average people.
A real-world example is the hybrid learning environment many high schoolers find themselves faced with this year. My son's school opted
to use Google Classrooms and Google Meet and also provided each student with a Chromebook. This hardware pales in comparison with the iPad
Pro.. until you factor in cost and form factor.
Even the 2-in-1 chromebook my son got (because he's on an IEP) cost 1/4
of what an iPad Pro would. Also, you've got a built-in keyboard and pointing device wihout adding a signle peripheral.
Hatton
---
Synchronet Three Corners and Beyond! http://3corners.us
have a 5G phone so I am tempted to pick up the cheapest iPhone 12 on release as
they are going to be future-proof.
People probably used to believe that 3G, 32-bit PCs, etc., were also future proof. :)
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
There is a middle ground, I guess. I don't mind connecting disk
emulators to old hardware. I've seen people use microSDs with images of all the software available for a system which runs everything as normal minus the disk reading noises. I've seen such devices for the C64,
Amiga and I have one for my Mac.
My point is that in the past, people had to have a desktop computer or
a laptop to carry out ANY computing task. Now that smartphones and
tablets are so capable, many people who would have purchased a desktop computer or a laptop will instead just stick with their smartphones or
use tablets as half-way devices. I am talking about people who are no longer students, folk who are only interested in casual browsing, entertainment and social media. Not the kind of people who are aware of
a Linux distro is.
I'll play devil's advocate and say that the file system is the hurdle
to tablets replacing desktops. Once people move everything over to
the cloud and they don't need to worry about local copies of
documents, videos, music, etc. then I could see a tablet with a
removeable keyboard, or a phone with a docked keyboard/monitor
becoming the standard.
There are some great stories over at:
https://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport
I used to like alt.sysadmin.recovery on usenet.
I reckon if you can touch type on a virtual keyboard, you can do it on a physical one. I've seen plenty young people who touch type, and they're
I recall selling cellular back in the late 90's telling people to hold onto their
old phones in case of an emergency since they would always be able to dial 911.
Guess that's no longer the case!
Yes, a lot of people are looking for a sentimental nostalgic experience and, as such, they long for something authentic. This can be achieved
in several different ways, the least efficient of which is by doing it though the original hardware.
I am more of a hardware guy myself so tracking down the original
machines and accessories would be important to me.
Very tempting. I'll have to figure out whether to stick with G suite
or try Microsoft 365 at home.
At the Vintage Computer Faire, my son and I saw lots of retromod
setups - an Altair case running an rPi emulator, a PDP-8, and an old
IBM mainframe, all original hardware driven by a Raspberry pi.
I actually have one of the old CoCo's (I think a 2, maybe a 3... not sure) up in the rafters of my garage. We have limited storage, don't judge.
Anyway, I've been tempted to pull it down since my son is getting a bit of the retro/emulator bug and to show him *real* 80's hardware would probably flip his lid.
I think form factor and familiarity are going to play a major role here.
What's interesting is that I myself at 46 am a victim of both faimilarity and functionality when it comes to an example.
My son is 15 and has the resolution overclocked on his laptop an his tablet. When my wife and I tried helping him with his homework he got mad when we tried lowering the resolution because neither of us could read his screens, even though I have better than 20/20 and my wife has progressive lense.
Tables and mobile devices inherently have a size limitation, and "pinch to zoom" only goes so far.
There's a nugget of current application in your statement though. Many,
many sites are being built using "responsive" libraries where the content "plays nice" with all screen resolutions. The factor is to not discount
any rather than assume utilization by a few.
I recall selling cellular back in the late 90's telling people to hold onto their
old phones in case of an emergency since they would always be able to dial 911.
Guess that's no longer the case!
My son is 15 and has the resolution overclocked on his laptop an his tablet. When my wife and I tried helping him with his homework he got mad when we tried lowering the resolution because neither of us could read his screens, even though I have better than 20/20 and my wife has progressive lense.
Hmmm, I've never had an issue with resolution on my iPhones or iPads. I think your son is possibly running a ridiculous resolution on his
systems and his eyes have just adapted to it.
The CoCo's are great machines. I saw LGR (I think) with one and he had an awesome side-car with expansion slots. Haha, he'll appreciate seeing vintage hardware in action it'll also give him a further appreciation for modern technology.
Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Oct 07 2020 01:55 pm
Functionally, laptops and desktops can be used for about the same tasks, so I see those as fairly close as far as usage. I think tablets are in a bit of a different category.
My point is that in the past, people had to have a desktop computer or
a laptop to carry out ANY computing task. Now that smartphones and
tablets are so capable, many people who would have purchased a desktop computer or a laptop will instead just stick with their smartphones or
use tablets as half-way devices. I am talking about people who are no longer students, folk who are only interested in casual browsing, entertainment and social media. Not the kind of people who are aware of
a Linux distro is.
hollowone wrote to Andeddu <=-
Yes, a lot of people are looking for a sentimental nostalgic experience and, as such, they long for something authentic. This can be achieved
in several different ways, the least efficient of which is by doing it though the original hardware.
I am more of a hardware guy myself so tracking down the original
machines and accessories would be important to me.
I used to be like that then to realize that old software and experience with it is more what drives me back.
As for the hardware itself, getting into your own micro-computing development modernized with ARM architecture and FPGA and all that IoT stuff is much more interesting than a challenge to assemble 386DX with
ISA based sound card once again.
Especially considering that I can build a computer that can be 10 times more powerful, consuming 1/10 of the power and 1/25 space of that one
and still I can enjoy a challenge to code a bare metal OS for it,
starting from a bootstrap and a BIOS kind of thing on a chip with FPGA
LUs as the platform.
Especially considering that I can build a computer that can be 10 times more powerful, consuming 1/10 of the power and 1/25 space of that one and still I can enjoy a challenge to code a bare metal OS for it, starting from a bootst and a BIOS kind of thing on a chip with FPGA LUs as the platform.
@VIA: VERT/THRCORN
@MSGID: <5F7FE8AC.8936.dove-general@3corners.us>
@REPLY: <5F7F3251.48402.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
have a 5G phone so I am tempted to pick up the cheapest iPhone 12 on release
as
they are going to be future-proof.
People probably used to believe that 3G, 32-bit PCs, etc., were also future proof. :)
I recall selling cellular back in the late 90's telling people to hold onto their
old phones in case of an emergency since they would always be able to
dial 911.
Guess that's no longer the case!
@VIA: VERT/THRCORN
@MSGID: <5F7FE8AC.8937.dove-general@3corners.us>
@REPLY: <5F7F8CDE.20114.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
There is a middle ground, I guess. I don't mind connecting disk
emulators to old hardware. I've seen people use microSDs with images of all the software available for a system which runs everything as normal minus the disk reading noises. I've seen such devices for the C64,
Amiga and I have one for my Mac.
I actually have one of the old CoCo's (I think a 2, maybe a 3... not
sure) up in the rafters of my garage. We have limited storage, don't judge.
Anyway, I've been tempted to pull it down since my son is getting a bit
of the retro/emulator bug and to show him *real* 80's hardware would probably flip his lid.
@VIA: VERT/THRCORN-snip-
@MSGID: <5F7FE8AC.8938.dove-general@3corners.us>
@REPLY: <5F7F9259.20117.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
My point is that in the past, people had to have a desktop computer or
a laptop to carry out ANY computing task. Now that smartphones and
tablets are so capable, many people who would have purchased a desktop computer or a laptop will instead just stick with their smartphones or
use tablets as half-way devices. I am talking about people who are no longer students, folk who are only interested in casual browsing, entertainment and social media. Not the kind of people who are aware of
a Linux distro is.
I think form factor and familiarity are going to play a major role
here.
There's a nugget of current application in your statement though. Many, many sites are being built using "responsive" libraries where the
content "plays nice" with all screen resolutions. The factor is to not discount any rather than assume utilization by a few.
On 10-09-20 22:32, Hatton wrote to Andeddu <=-
@VIA: VERT/THRCORN
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Hatton on Fri Oct 09 2020 04:47 pm
The CoCo's are great machines. I saw LGR (I think) with one and he had an awesome side-car with expansion slots. Haha, he'll appreciate seeing vintage hardware in action it'll also give him a further appreciation for modern technology.
I know I have one of those but beyond that, I will have to check what's
in the box and then figure out how to connect the thing to a modern TV.
There are some people who ONLY use social media, and anything else they need is "apps". I wouldn't call what they are doing "computing", that
is too generous. My mum just needs to do this, and the only reason she might want a laptop is for a bigger screen to view pictures.
When Electric Power fails I press a memory button on my wired POTS land line to let the Power Company know about it.
A virtual keyboard tends to be too small to touch type on. Also, in order to touch type, you really need tactile feedback of physical keys in order to feel where your fingers are. It's hard to know if your fingers are actually on the keys when there are no actual keys to feel. A physical keyboard also typically has small ridges on the bottoms of the two keys where in the middle row where your index fingers would go (F and J on a QWERTY keyboard), helping you to place your hands properly to touch type.
I used to be like that then to realize that old software and experience with it is more what drives me back.
As for the hardware itself, getting into your own micro-computing development modernized with ARM architecture and FPGA and all that IoT stuff is much more interesting than a challenge to assemble 386DX with ISA based sound card once again.
Especially considering that I can build a computer that can be 10 times more powerful, consuming 1/10 of the power and 1/25 space of that one and still I can enjoy a challenge to code a bare metal OS for it, starting from a bootstrap and a BIOS kind of thing on a chip with FPGA LUs as the platform.
Hmmm, I've never had an issue with resolution on my iPhones or iPads. I think your son is possibly running a ridiculous resolution on his systems and his eyes have just adapted to it.
Yeah, my son's got his screens set to the eqivalent of 2.7k on his laptop and his tablet using zoom and some video driver tweaks. It works for him and given his spot on the spectrum and where he's at in age (15 - and he *might* survive to 16 at this point) he functions fine. We just had to lay down the law that if we're going to help him it has to be on a device we can actually see the interface and read the text.
I know I have one of those but beyond that, I will have to check what's in the box and then figure out how to connect the thing to a modern TV.
Hatton
There are some people who ONLY use social media, and anything else they
need is "apps". I wouldn't call what they are doing "computing", that
is too generous. My mum just needs to do this, and the only reason she might want a laptop is for a bigger screen to view pictures.
I've heard that wired Land Line telephones get their power from Batteries in the Telephone Company's Switch Room, so it will still work when electricity goes off here.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Jon Justvig to HusTler on Wed Oct 07 2020 03:30 pm
The auto-fill is good when dealing with grammar, but auto-correct can be annoying sometimes.
Ducking auto-correct...
i just have a black powder coated rack next to my desk. i put all my shit on
Oh.. I thought you meant a "computer rack". Silly me :-)
Ed Vance wrote to Hatton <=-
There's a nugget of current application in your statement though. Many, many sites are being built using "responsive" libraries where the
content "plays nice" with all screen resolutions. The factor is to not discount any rather than assume utilization by a few.
As I was reading, I thought about using the internet in late 1996.
Some pages were designed for Netscape Navigator (Mosaic), others were better if Internet Explorer was used - and the web page said so on the bottom line.
I know I have one of those but beyond that, I will have to check what's
in the box and then figure out how to connect the thing to a modern TV.
Some TVs still have a composite video input, otherwise you can still
get composite to HDMI adapters.
Hmmm, that would be a complete pain in the arse. You'd need something
like an RGB scart cable with a SCART to HDMI converter. Even then your
TV may not support 15KHz RGB signals. It would be easier to pick up a vintage CRT TV at a swap meet than to go through all that and still end
up with display problems.
Some TVs still have a composite video input, otherwise you can still get composite to HDMI adapters.
At this point, there isn't a better rich client option than the
browser. It's cross platform, offers a lot of modern development features and
with web-assembly or TypeScript it's pretty much got whatever people
want in the box.
Maybe from the developers POV. That is why modern tech suck dogs balls, because devs are doing what is best for them, what is easiest for them, not for
the customer. Software developers really need to be ruled and controlled by non-tech types in terms of product design.
Web apps aren't that great. I've used online apps, and 9 times out of 10, a native version is better. I've used web based applications, and its always a pain in the ass. If the browser is the best, that is a sorry state.
My child has to do home schooling. She has to switch between browsers, because
neither Firefox, Opera or Brave can properly use the total set of web-apps that
she has to use. One site may work with Brave, not Firefox, and the other, vice
versa. I do online banking, find some widget doesn't work, go to another browser, and it works.
So, you would rather spend $1m+ for developers to optimize vs. $10k on
faster hardware? Not to mention, no new feature development while
optimizing.
I think developers should put down the keyboard.
There is a philosophy that I live by. It is a complete waste of time to do more efficiently, that which doesn't need to be done at all.
I'm not saying that we should use XT's. I'm saying we aren't imaginative or disciplined enough to find solutions that exist with current resources. The upgrade treadmill is a manufactured treadmill. It exists because it is ASSUMED
that there will be hardware churn, so developers can push system requirements up and invent slower ways to perform the same tasks.
As I've stated many time, I am no more productive on my computer today, than I
was back in the early 2000s. Almost everything I'm doing is exactly the same.
Don't translate that as "We should be using Pentium 166's", that is not what I'm saying. I am saying though that the churn of resources has not resulted in
a commensurate productivity gain.
Wouldn't that depend on the user? My computer needs might be completely different from yours so I may be happy with the performance of a 1.6 mghz processor with 2G of Ram where as you may not. I think the word performance is much more personalized these days. Just sayin.
I'd say outside of work, around 50% of my internet use is
streaming/youtube and the other half is done mostly on my phone.
Only streaming I use is a little Spotify first thing in the morning and the rare YouTube or FB video, and a late night viewing of current affairs.
How hard would it be to direct Synchronet notifications to email. I turn my FB notifications off but I'd use on my BBS notifications if they were available. Just sayin.
I disagree. Perhaps it's true for someone like you, however the younger generation (Gen-Z) seem to have no trouble whatsoever using a virtual keyboard.
I am 35 so I am positively middle aged when it comes to these sort of discussions but I have encountered no problems typing quickly on an iPad or iPhone. Predictive text can also speed things up substantially if you're able to use it. I am a touch typist myself and I don't notice much of a loss of efficency when typing on a tablet or phone... the tactile aspect isn't really a
requirement for me.
Gaming is a different ball game though... no one likes gaming on a touch screen, unless the game your playing is a point-and-click adventure title.
question in a seat next to me without a cell phone for distraction. I'm
happy to talk, ask question etc... but the cost is as much of their time
as they are taking of mine.
then you have to fix their computer until the end of time.
Love the Model M myself, have bought several Unicomp ones, but I get tooNot a fan of the apple keyboards, and definitely not their mice.
The old Apple ADB extended keyboard ranked along with the Dell
QuietKey, IBM Model M, and Sun Model 5 keyboard for best keyboard,
IMO. If I could find a USB-hacked Dell Quietkey in black, I'd buy it
in a heartbeat.
Oh, honorable mention to the NeXt keyboard.
I've been doing a lot of collaboration with remote peers lately, and
for the first time the web version of Excel is easier to use than
Excel 2016. Until now, there's been a feature missing from the online version, or something is easier with the desktop version.
Office365 will allow more people to use Linux as a desktop OS, but
Microsoft already has their OEM Microsoft fee. A recurring revenue
bundle is a good thing for them, though.
I went to Microsoft's Ignite conference this year online, and they
sent me a coupon code for $5 off on their digital store, and O365
family edition for $20/year. I may have to stock up - 5 licenses of
Microsoft 365, Office 2016, 6TB of disk space in a pool and
outlook.com support for desktop outlook. I think they include Skype
minutes, too.
Very tempting. I'll have to figure out whether to stick with G suite
or try Microsoft 365 at home.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed Oct 07 2020 06:58 am
At the Vintage Computer Faire, my son and I saw lots of retromod
setups - an Altair case running an rPi emulator, a PDP-8, and an old
IBM mainframe, all original hardware driven by a Raspberry pi.
I like all this stuff also. I've seen LGR do an Altair 8800 clone along with Checkmate A1500 Amiga clone. These computers obviously look like the genuine article yet are running on modern hardware. Although I do prefer authentic hardware, this still appeals to me rather than simple software emulation on modern machine.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-fo
On 10/6/2020 4:29 AM, Dennisk wrote:
At this point, there isn't a better rich client option than the
browser. It's cross platform, offers a lot of modern development features and
with web-assembly or TypeScript it's pretty much got whatever people
want in the box.
Maybe from the developers POV. That is why modern tech suck dogs balls, because devs are doing what is best for them, what is easiest for them, not
r
the customer. Software developers really need to be ruled and controlled by non-tech types in terms of product design.
Well, the market has spoken... how many pieces of software have you purchased for more than $500/user in the past decade? Because that's
what the difference is... apps that are quick/wasy to produce, updates
are deployed to a single system infrastructure without stale versions
in the wild, with modest hardware costs that would be under half a
million to develop opposed to costing tens of millions for native, optimized versions. Not to mention a much longer time to market.
Web apps aren't that great. I've used online apps, and 9 times out of 10, a native version is better. I've used web based applications, and its alwaysa
pain in the ass. If the browser is the best, that is a sorry state.becaus
That frankly depends on who is building the application. VS Code, for example, is all web tech and it does better than many IDEs for load
time, run time, and interaction behaviors.
My child has to do home schooling. She has to switch between browsers,
etha
neither Firefox, Opera or Brave can properly use the total set of web-apps
tvic
she has to use. One site may work with Brave, not Firefox, and the other,
e
versa. I do online banking, find some widget doesn't work, go to another browser, and it works.
Have you tried Chrome proper, or disabling the built in protection in Brave for essential sites you *must* use? More often than not, it's
the privacy extensions, not issues with the specific browsers... IE is really the only standout (short of really bleeding edge features) for
over 3 years now.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10/6/2020 4:31 AM, Dennisk wrote:
So, you would rather spend $1m+ for developers to optimize vs. $10k on
faster hardware? Not to mention, no new feature development while
optimizing.
I think developers should put down the keyboard.
There is a philosophy that I live by. It is a complete waste of time to do more efficiently, that which doesn't need to be done at all.
So, you don't think people should be allowed to vote, or sign
petitions?
Or be counted in census roles, or have their direct deposites work?
Maybe you should step away from your computer if you don't think it's worth using.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Oct 04 2020 07:14 am
There are some people who ONLY use social media, and anything else they
need is "apps". I wouldn't call what they are doing "computing", that
is too generous. My mum just needs to do this, and the only reason she might want a laptop is for a bigger screen to view pictures.
I am pretty much in that category myself. I have no use for a laptop or
a desktop as everything I do can be done on a phone or tablet. The
gaming laptop I have is purely for games and the Mac I am using right
now is just a piece of 80's nostaliga for BBSing. I have no genuine use for a PC anymore. All e-mails, writing, banking, browsing, shopping, social media, Skype/FaceTime calls, online shopping, video watching and photo editing are done either on my iPhone or iPad. I have a 4K smart
TV too with Netflix, Disney, iPlayer, etc... installed so I do not
require a 3rd party device. Pretty much everyone I know lives this way. Some have older laptops however they aren't carrying out any tasks that
an iPad wouldn't be capable of... and a laptop is much less comfortable
to use if you're chilling on the couch with the TV on.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-ASSUME
On 10/6/2020 4:35 AM, Dennisk wrote:
I'm not saying that we should use XT's. I'm saying we aren't imaginative or disciplined enough to find solutions that exist with current resources. The upgrade treadmill is a manufactured treadmill. It exists because it is
Drequirements
that there will be hardware churn, so developers can push system
up and invent slower ways to perform the same tasks.I
Customers ask for features and are willing to pay for them...
developers develop them... Not every software is fit for every use case
in every environment. Hell for government solutions alone thare are *MANY* corner cases and variances to differing jurisdictions that
require massive efforts, and thats without trying to shoehorn in low
level programming environments and bespoke software delivered to
hundreds of thousands of descrete systems as opposed to a few hundred uniform ones.
As I've stated many time, I am no more productive on my computer today, than
was back in the early 2000s. Almost everything I'm doing is exactly thesame.
Are you really? You're likely on a display with 2-4x the resolutioni
with a much broader color pallette with compositing desktop UI and
really smooth transition/scrolling that updates at more than 2x the refresh rate... and that's just to keep up with the monitor.
You also likely see picture and video quality at much higher levels
than typical from the time. Depending on your hardware, you may be
doing this with a lot less power from the wall if you're on a lower
power CPU with onboard graphics from back then.
If your needs are really as modest as you say, you can get away with an rPI4 at 2-4W most of the time from the wall.
Don't translate that as "We should be using Pentium 166's", that is not what I'm saying. I am saying though that the churn of resources has not resulted
n
a commensurate productivity gain.
You kind of are... where is the reasonable cutoff on what you consider good enough hardware? Like I said previously any computer in the past 5-10 years is generally good enough compute wise, and maybe needs more
ram or an SSD (not even an nvme) and likely good enough for years to
come aside from certain content creation or gaming.
As for productivity gains... I can do on my current desktop in under a minute what it took me minutes to do on my 5yo system... I save maybe
an hour or more a day. I'm also able to run more workloads locally
than I could more than 5-6 years ago and be able to run the full system locally without issue. In the 2008 era, I was literally spending
30-40m several times a day waiting for compiles... now, I rarely wait
more than a minute.
Now, if all you do is use basic spreadsheets and word.. yeah, as I've said, nearly 10yo tech is probably fine (if you were upper mid-range
tech at that time). But don't act like you're being forced to use bleeding edge, current hardware for anything other than certain gaming
or content creation scenarios. You can do on a 3yo phone more than you could do on top of the line desktop hardware in 2006.
Similar question to what I asked in another thread... how many bespoke pieces of software have you spent more than $500 in the past decade, my guess is, not much... which is why developers optimize for utility and time every bit as much as for performance... the fact is, most of it is good/fast enough on relatively aging hardware.
On 10/7/2020 6:59 PM, MRO wrote:
question in a seat next to me without a cell phone for distraction.
I'm happy to talk, ask question etc... but the cost is as much of
their time as they are taking of mine.
then you have to fix their computer until the end of time.
I've rarely been asked more than once.
Well, the market has spoken... how many pieces of software have you
purchased for more than $500/user in the past decade? Because that's
what the difference is... apps that are quick/wasy to produce, updates
are deployed to a single system infrastructure without stale versions
in the wild, with modest hardware costs that would be under half a
million to develop opposed to costing tens of millions for native,
optimized versions. Not to mention a much longer time to market.
Yeah, but the "market" also wants resource churn, e-waste and planned obsolescence. What "the market" wants isn't necessarily the most sustainable and suitable solution, or that which is best, its just what happens to sell the
most.
Getting software to sell solves a very, very specific problem while ignoring many others.
Have you tried Chrome proper, or disabling the built in protection in
Brave for essential sites you *must* use? More often than not, it's
the privacy extensions, not issues with the specific browsers... IE is
really the only standout (short of really bleeding edge features) for
over 3 years now.
No, I haven't yet. I was reticent to try Chrome because its by Google. I might try disabling some of the extensions that block things in Brave and see how that goes.
But if the web browser is a universal gui, I shouldn't have to rely on Chrome.
So, you don't think people should be allowed to vote, or sign
petitions? Or be counted in census roles, or have their direct deposites work?
Maybe you should step away from your computer if you don't think it's
worth using.
Huh? What is your argument here?
Most of my work is with word documents, spreadsheets, email, some web browsing,
use of a database. This is what all of my company uses. The only standout is
video chats.
In terms of the producton of documents and information, as well as managing that information, its the same process. Yes, PDF's look a little better, but we are still using the same processes. Wet ink signature scanned in and PDF's
which aren't searchable saved as the 'final' document. We use a cloud drive instead of a standard network share now, but thats just slower and sometimes buggy. In fact, in the past I COULD link Excel spreadsheets together, but because file access is now done through a specific app, it doesn't seem possible to create those links. Maybe you can, but no one in IT seems interested in making it happens.
Excel spreadsheets are still used as databases. People are still copying and pasting data from spreadsheet to spreadsheet.
Remember, that apps and custom solutions are purchased by managers who have no
idea at all what a computer is. Software with a six digit price tag is purchased because "this other company uses it, any they are a world leading company", or because the interface is something they are familiar with. Very few people understand what their machine can do, or can imagine what else it could do.
question in a seat next to me without a cell phone for distraction.
I'm happy to talk, ask question etc... but the cost is as much of
their time as they are taking of mine.
then you have to fix their computer until the end of time.
I've rarely been asked more than once.
i've had to fix people's shit multiple times. just because of their kids messing things up. or it's hardware. i've driven 30 miles to wiggle a wifi dongle. or the ooma box wasnt working right with the switch and the router and i had to power them down and then back up again in a certain order.
There are some people who ONLY use social media, and anything else they
need is "apps". I wouldn't call what they are doing "computing", that
is too generous. My mum just needs to do this, and the only reason she might want a laptop is for a bigger screen to view pictures.
10-08-20 23:58 Hatton wrote to Dumas Walker about Re: Before Bandwidth / Af Howdy! Hatton,
@VIA: VERT/THRCORN
@MSGID: <5F7FE8AC.8936.dove-general@3corners.us>
@REPLY: <5F7F3251.48402.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
have a 5G phone so I am tempted to pick up the cheapest iPhone 12 on relea
as
they are going to be future-proof.
People probably used to believe that 3G, 32-bit PCs, etc., were also future proof. :)
I recall selling cellular back in the late 90's telling people to hold onto their
old phones in case of an emergency since they would always be able to dial 911.
Guess that's no longer the case!
When Electric Power fails I press a memory button on my wired POTS land line to let the Power Company know about it.
I've heard that wired Land Line telephones get their power from Batteries in the Telephone Company's Switch Room, so it will still work when electricity goes off here.
Neighbors who have their Telephone Number on a Cable TV Service Router or other VOIP connections like (I think) Fiber Optic, can't call out unless the have a Cell Phone too.
I already wrote about receiving a Message on my AT&T Go-Phone about 3G service ending.
I looked at that message again, it will be February 2022 when 3G ends, so I don't have to be in a hurry to buy a 5G Go-Phone (if they will be available)
Currently, I can Renew the Go-Phone account each Year for $100.00 USD, and I won't lose any unused Minutes.
I hope when I do get a 5G phone their Plan won't change and I can continue doing that each year.
I use the Go-Phone very little, a few people have the number and I use it fo Emergency calls if I have car trouble, or to report if someone else needs help.
Speaking of 'future proof', I thought the price for a Optical Scanner would always be real high, and bought a 14" Scanner for almost $1000.00 USD.
A year or so later someone I knew bought a Scanner and told me they paid $300.00 for it.
Boy! did my jaw drop when I heard that.
Now AIO Scanners Printers (& FAX) are sold for under $100.00 USD. DUH!
73 de Ed W9ODR . .
... The care and feeding of a computer could drive You MAD!
Did you make them talk on the phone with you for the entire drive, and sit next to you while you fixed their problem? Again, I've rarely had people ask more than once when the price is as much of their time as
they use of mine.
Then again, there's always "No."
On 10-10-20 12:46, Hatton wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The CoCo 3 has a RGB output but the 2 and before only has RF.
I found some SCART based projects, those will take some time to get together and built out.
On 10-10-20 11:28, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
A couple years ago, I bought a 3-input RCA to HDMI adapter for an old Super Nintendo to connect to a TV via HDMI. It worked, though there
were some visual artifacts (patterns of green in the image), which I'm
not sure were due to the adapter or the Super Nintendo. I'm sure there were better adapters available.
Also, sometimes if I read "HDMI" fast, I almost read it as "hey dummy"
in my head. :P
On 10-10-20 14:12, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
For me, it's mostly on TV and about half YouTube including The Hill
news reports, and other channels... a few shows on different streaming things or downloaded to my NAS box.
On 10-11-20 12:27, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
I still enjoy programming, getting the hardware to do things. I write custom scripts to automate tasks, so I would feel a phone to be very limiting. You can't change the GUI, you can't make modifications
easily. Its 'take it or leave it'. Whereas with the desktop, I can
use scripts, I can generate reports that I have to create using CSV
files, groff and gnuplot, I can modify FVWM to be how I want it.
That is what I meant by "computing". For some people, the hardware is ONLY a means to run preprepared environments, for others, they direct
the hardware themselves or employ the capabilities of the machine to
solve their problems.
On 10-10-20 21:33, MRO wrote to Tracker1 <=-
i've had to fix people's shit multiple times. just because of their
kids messing things up. or it's hardware. i've driven 30 miles to
wiggle a wifi dongle. or the ooma box wasnt working right with the
switch and the router and i had to power them down and then back up
again in a certain order. ---
Can you build me a laptop or netbook for 25 bucks or under?
Perhaps your interest in old software is because you're able to program/code. I am unable to do any of that and the only old software
that would be of any interest to me would be 90's games. And I would
much rather play those games on period specific hardware than via emulation. I do agree, like I said before, that there's no point in
taking up precious space on a power hungry vintage computer when you
can use a RPi or a similar micro computer. If software is your interest there's no point in getting bogged down on old hardware and all the problems that come with it in terms of repairs/maintenence, power
usage, etc...
Well, I flew on a 4 hour each way trip (in a light plane, not a jet) to reverse the polarity of a sensor (i.e. remove a plug, rotate it 180 degrees and plug it back in) in a piece of equipment that had been shipped to Woomera, in the outback. :)
This was due to a combination of unfamiliarity at the site with the equipment and a lack of documentation.
No, I haven't yet. I was reticent to try Chrome because its by Google. I might try disabling some of the extensions that block things in Brave and see how that goes.
But if the web browser is a universal gui, I shouldn't have to rely on Chrome.
Then again, there's always "No."
it's hard for me to say no.
Lately I've seen some videos where people are restoring and repairing the Heath HERO robots, and controlling them with an rPi or arduino. Instead of gutting the machines, they are using it's RS-232 port for communications. The HERO had a wired handheld controller, and they are swapping it with an rPi.
I still enjoy programming, getting the hardware to do things. I write custom scripts to automate tasks, so I would feel a phone to be very limiting. You can't change the GUI, you can't make modifications easily. Its 'take it or leave it'. Whereas with the desktop, I can use scripts, I can generate reports that I have to create using CSV files, groff and gnuplot, I can modify FVWM to be how I want it.
That is what I meant by "computing". For some people, the hardware is ONLY a means to run preprepared environments, for others, they direct the hardware themselves or employ the capabilities of the machine to solve their problems.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Tracker1 on Sun Oct 11 2020 01:04 am
Then again, there's always "No."
it's hard for me to say no.
This has been a common theme on my performance reports for years. "You need to learn how to say No more often".
Can you build me a laptop or netbook for 25 bucks or under?
shipping to your highly exclusive neigbourhood enclave would be more expensi sir. ;>
On 10-11-20 10:14, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Recently where I work, a customer sent us a PC and an expansion card
and wanted us to install the expansion card in the PC, as part of the project we'd be helping them with. The problem was, the expansion card was PCI, and the PC only had PCI Express expansion slots in it. I
could tell they weren't very familiar with building/upgrading PCs. :)
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10/11/2020 10:26 AM, Dennisk wrote:
So, you don't think people should be allowed to vote, or sign?
petitions? Or be counted in census roles, or have their direct deposites work
Maybe you should step away from your computer if you don't think it's
worth using.
Huh? What is your argument here?
Erll, personally, I work on software for an election services
company... if we tried to use what you suggest, which is the most
resource efficient software to support older hardware, it could never
get done in time or meet the legal complexities of different districts/cities/counties/states. So they just wouldn't be able to
keep up at all, and the system collapses. These come from scanning/verification systems for petition tracking, ballot duplication for scanning, printing/distribution, etc, etc...
Because you don't think some of the things are worth doing, if they
happen to run in a browser. Fpr that matter, a lot of it has been done
in C#, which has its' own bloat on Windows, vs. a lighter OS and a
lower level language.
That doesn't even begin to cover the costs/risks associated with trying
to find skilled developers in low-level languages. but, hey we can
just print more money to pay for it all.
Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-browsing
On 10/11/2020 10:28 AM, Dennisk wrote:
Most of my work is with word documents, spreadsheets, email, some web
,is
use of a database. This is what all of my company uses. The only standout
video chats.but
Not everyone is at *your* workplace....
In terms of the producton of documents and information, as well as managing that information, its the same process. Yes, PDF's look a little better,
we are still using the same processes. Wet ink signature scanned in andPDF's
which aren't searchable saved as the 'final' document. We use a cloud drive instead of a standard network share now, but thats just slower and sometimes buggy. In fact, in the past I COULD link Excel spreadsheets together, but because file access is now done through a specific app, it doesn't seem possible to create those links. Maybe you can, but no one in IT seems interested in making it happens.
And at some companies, they're having to process 10x the amount of data/packaging/printing/scanning/resources than even 4 years ago. They *DO* need the extra/newer hardware for backend systems to handle that load. And need reasonable turn around for the sofware that can meet
those expanded needs. Waiting years for low-level development won't
cut it... also, you mention specifically you use scripts for things... most do, and scripts aren't as optimal as compiled software in a
low-level language, so guess what, more hardware gets thrown at the problem to overcome the issue as opposed to more developers which can actually slow things down and more expensive than the hardware, a lower level language, again slower time to done.
Excel spreadsheets are still used as databases. People are still copyingand
pasting data from spreadsheet to spreadsheet.no
Remember, that apps and custom solutions are purchased by managers who have
idea at all what a computer is. Software with a six digit price tag is purchased because "this other company uses it, any they are a world leading company", or because the interface is something they are familiar with.Very
few people understand what their machine can do, or can imagine what else it could do.
Again, not everyone works where *YOU* do.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Oct 04 2020 07:14 am
There are some people who ONLY use social media, and anything else they
need is "apps". I wouldn't call what they are doing "computing", that
is too generous. My mum just needs to do this, and the only reason she might want a laptop is for a bigger screen to view pictures.
Bsck in the way old days I recall a friend got a Vic-20, and we were thinking of all the cool stuff we could do with a computer. Other than run store bought software, about the only cool thing we could do with
it was type in and store his mother's recipes to tape. During the
summer his cousin would come out to visit, and he was much more
computer savvy. He made some real cool display interfaces that took up more memory in displaying data than the actual data put into it.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-11-20 12:27, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
I still enjoy programming, getting the hardware to do things. I write custom scripts to automate tasks, so I would feel a phone to be very limiting. You can't change the GUI, you can't make modifications
easily. Its 'take it or leave it'. Whereas with the desktop, I can
use scripts, I can generate reports that I have to create using CSV
files, groff and gnuplot, I can modify FVWM to be how I want it.
I rely a lot on automation, which is done mostly using shell scripts.
I have not only a lot tolerance for, but also am unreliable at
repetitive routine tasks, so the more I can offload those to my
systems, the better (gotta love ADHD ;) ). And the adjustments to the COVID world have exacerbated my traits a bit. :)
Warpslide wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Tracker1 on Sun Oct 11 2020 11:08 am
No, I haven't yet. I was reticent to try Chrome because its by Google. I might try disabling some of the extensions that block things in Brave and see how that goes.
But if the web browser is a universal gui, I shouldn't have to rely on Chrome.
You can give Ungoogled Chromium a try. All the goodness of Chrome
without the googs:
https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Sun Oct 11 2020 12:27 pm
I still enjoy programming, getting the hardware to do things. I write custom scripts to automate tasks, so I would feel a phone to be very limiting. You can't change the GUI, you can't make modifications easily. Its 'take it or leave it'. Whereas with the desktop, I can use scripts, I can generate reports that I have to create using CSV files, groff and gnuplot, I can modify FVWM to be how I want it.
That is what I meant by "computing". For some people, the hardware is ONLY a means to run preprepared environments, for others, they direct the hardware themselves or employ the capabilities of the machine to solve their problems.
I don't think script writing or minor programming is something which is suitable on a phone. By your standards, there are very few people who carry out any actual "computing"... the average consumer is happy to
exist within pre-prepared and heavily curated enviroments. People use technology because it allows them to carry out tasks, tasks such as shopping on Amazon, eBay or any other virtual storefront, keeping in
touch with their friends/family, watching entertainment on YouTube or Netflix along with sorting out utilities and banking, etc...
It's the job of those who wish to direct hardware and create software
to make applications and quality of life improvements for the rest of
us normies. We don't want to design the theme park, we just want to
play in it.
solution as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Annoyingly, I'm alwayshaving the rug pulled out from under me. I have a phone with a powerful processor, yet still have to buy a newer one, just to get a text message! Or just to get a few words of text from my daughters school. I spend money on technology, only for some Silicon Valley airhead to make my investment useless again.
Warpslide wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I still have a legacy "free" GSuite account. For awhile there I felt
like I was missing out so I moved my domain over to an O365 Basic
license. It worked ok and I liked having the 1TB of storage.
--- MRO wrote --
i've had to fix people's shit multiple times. just because of their kids m
On 10-12-20 21:49, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm lazy, and I can't stand doing what the machine should be doing.
Every time I have to copy and paste something at work (which is a LOT
of what people do, badly), to me it just screams failure. I can't help but think there is something fundamentally wrong with the workflow, and
if there is no obvious way to remedy it, then the software is
deficient, or the system is deficient.
I just finished working on a particular financial report, which I'm
trying to automate. But using Xero (yuk!) and other peoples Excel spreadsheets is just awful and reenergised my utter disdain for web
based crap. I enjoy computers only to the extent that they are
machines which I can control and can follow instruction unerringly, but
I HATE using Applications and doing work on computers. Most developers are just seeking to sell as much product as cheaply as possible, no different to property developers who want to throw up as many units as possible. Housing is not their goal, churn of resources so they can
gain profit from arbitrage is.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-12-20 21:49, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm lazy, and I can't stand doing what the machine should be doing.
Every time I have to copy and paste something at work (which is a LOT
of what people do, badly), to me it just screams failure. I can't help but think there is something fundamentally wrong with the workflow, and
if there is no obvious way to remedy it, then the software is
deficient, or the system is deficient.
Yes, we think alike. I get the machine to do as much as possible. Anything to save some typing, or in some cases, even manual steps. The computer can do it all, especially in Linux, with all of the GNU
utilities that can be used to help automate things (sed, awk, cut, bash features, cron, etc, etc :) ).
I just finished working on a particular financial report, which I'm
trying to automate. But using Xero (yuk!) and other peoples Excel spreadsheets is just awful and reenergised my utter disdain for web
based crap. I enjoy computers only to the extent that they are
machines which I can control and can follow instruction unerringly, but
I HATE using Applications and doing work on computers. Most developers are just seeking to sell as much product as cheaply as possible, no different to property developers who want to throw up as many units as possible. Housing is not their goal, churn of resources so they can
gain profit from arbitrage is.
Yes, there's a lot of monolithic crap out there.
Then the phone cannot replace the desktop. I just prepared some financial reports using data from spreadsheets. Not sure how I would do that on a phone.
Or not sure how you could automate tasks or otherwise manipulate information outside of what the apps specifically can do.
But here is the problem, the phone IS a computer. If you need to automate something, anything, it physically CAN do it. The memory, transistors and storage is there, is more than sufficient quantities. The ability to create a process on a desktop and transfer it is there. It has been for nearly TWO DECADES.
I personally dont' want to play in the theme park. I want to get from problem
solution as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Annoyingly, I'm alwayshaving the rug pulled out from under me. I have a phone with a powerful processor, yet still have to buy a newer one, just to get a text message! Or just to get a few words of text from my daughters school. I spend money on technology, only for some Silicon Valley airhead to make my investment useless again.
Thats why I'm so jaded about tech, and why I can't understand why people think the progress is so great. It seems that unless you view things purely from the developers POV, your own analysis is somehow bunk, despite material reality.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 12 2020 10:08 pm
Then the phone cannot replace the desktop. I just prepared some financial reports using data from spreadsheets. Not sure how I would do that on a phone.
Or not sure how you could automate tasks or otherwise manipulate information outside of what the apps specifically can do.
But here is the problem, the phone IS a computer. If you need to automate something, anything, it physically CAN do it. The memory, transistors and storage is there, is more than sufficient quantities. The ability to create a process on a desktop and transfer it is there. It has been for nearly TWO DECADES.
I personally dont' want to play in the theme park. I want to get from problem
solution as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Annoyingly, I'm alwayshaving the rug pulled out from under me. I have a phone with a powerful processor, yet still have to buy a newer one, just to get a text message! Or just to get a few words of text from my daughters school. I spend money on technology, only for some Silicon Valley airhead to make my investment useless again.
Thats why I'm so jaded about tech, and why I can't understand why people think the progress is so great. It seems that unless you view things purely from the developers POV, your own analysis is somehow bunk, despite material reality.
A phone cannot replace a desktop for all tasks. The issue is purely do with size - the screen is too small for any serious work. Desktops will always exist in the workplace and some enthusiasts will demand them in
the home too. There will always be a market for large computers; it's a dwindling market outside of business use, but it's still a market.
I agree with you in terms of operating systems and applications
demanding more and more resources to run. I don't see much of a need
for it. Gaming is completely different, I understand that computers are going to become obsolete within 2-3 years if the user's pushing 4K resolutions and textures and cranking up the shadows, reflections, and particle quality settings, etc... these things are incredibly resource heavy.
I guess there's so much profit in releasing new technology that there
is zero interest in leaning down applications to run on lesser
hardware. Phones and computers are so cheap now that almost anyone can purchase a new phone, tablet or laptop every 2-3 years. That means more hardware and software units sold. Everyone's happy including the
consumer who gets to justify purchasing a shiny new gadget every couple
of years.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
A phone cannot replace a desktop for all tasks. The issue is
purely do with size - the screen is too small for any serious
work.
Desktops will always exist in the workplace and some
enthusiasts will demand them in the home too.
There will always
be a market for large computers; it's a dwindling market outside
of business use, but it's still a market.
I agree with you in terms of operating systems and applications
demanding more and more resources to run. I don't see much of a
need for it. Gaming is completely different,
I understand that
computers are going to become obsolete within 2-3 years if the
user's pushing 4K resolutions and textures and cranking up the
shadows, reflections, and particle quality settings, etc... these
things are incredibly resource heavy.
I guess there's so much profit in releasing new technology that
there is zero interest in leaning down applications to run on
lesser hardware.
Phones and computers are so cheap now that
almost anyone can purchase a new phone, tablet or laptop every
2-3 years. That means more hardware and software units sold.
Everyone's happy including the consumer who gets to justify
purchasing a shiny new gadget every couple of years.
Software developers get it wrong. They see their job as getting frameworks or software to do things. Wrong. The purpose of software is to get HARDWARE to do things. Software developers exist in order to get hardware which has the potential to complete a task, to do it. Software exists in order to get hardware to fulfil its intended purpose. It is not the role of hardware to support software, it is the other way around.
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Oct 14 2020 11:22 pm
Software developers get it wrong. They see their job as getting frameworks or software to do things. Wrong. The purpose of software is to get HARDWARE to do things. Software developers exist in order to get hardware which has the potential to complete a task, to do it. Software exists in order to get hardware to fulfil its intended purpose. It is not the role of hardware to support software, it is the other way around.
Well of course, it's the hardware that's actually doing the work.
Though for many software projects, it's easy to think about the task in terms of how the software should be designed, etc.. Part of the goals
for many programming languages starting with C, C++, etc., was to be
able to compile & run it on pretty much any computer (as opposed to assembly language, where you have to know the specific instructions for
a specific computer). But in the end, it's the hardware that's doing
the work, and sometimes you just need specific hardware support to do a particular task. I don't think anyone is denying that.
I've often heard that software drives hardware to become more powerful, and in turn, more powerful hardware leads to more demanding software
being developed - so it's a cycle where both drive each other.
Nightfox
Gamgee wrote to Andeddu <=-
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
A phone cannot replace a desktop for all tasks. The issue is
purely do with size - the screen is too small for any serious
work.
But.... you recently claimed (many times) that a phone/tablet can
and IS replacing desktops, for "everyone you know". Do none of
the people you know do any serious work?
Desktops will always exist in the workplace and some
enthusiasts will demand them in the home too.
Again, you think no "serious work" is done in people's homes?
There will always
be a market for large computers; it's a dwindling market outside
of business use, but it's still a market.
It may be slightly decreasing, but it's nowhere NEAR the doom and
gloom that you project. You should expand your knowledge about
what people do (at home) with desktop computers, because it's
clearly lacking.
I agree with you in terms of operating systems and applications
demanding more and more resources to run. I don't see much of a
need for it. Gaming is completely different,
How and why would gaming be any different? I struggle to keep up
with your sweeping generalities.
I understand that
computers are going to become obsolete within 2-3 years if the
user's pushing 4K resolutions and textures and cranking up the
shadows, reflections, and particle quality settings, etc... these
things are incredibly resource heavy.
Yes, they are resource heavy, but if the hardware exists to keep
up with those demands, what's the problem? Again your "logic" is impossible to follow.
I guess there's so much profit in releasing new technology that
there is zero interest in leaning down applications to run on
lesser hardware.
Ya think?
Phones and computers are so cheap now that
almost anyone can purchase a new phone, tablet or laptop every
2-3 years. That means more hardware and software units sold.
Everyone's happy including the consumer who gets to justify
purchasing a shiny new gadget every couple of years.
You are so far out of touch with reality that it's comical to read
your ramblings. Thanks for the entertainment! LOL
It is the task at hand which drives the hardware. Whether it is the need to visualise something in detail, to process digital signals in real time, to decode multiple video streams simulatneously, store digital media, etc. Software is the missing piece that makes that possible.
On 10-13-20 20:56, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yes, there's a lot of monolithic crap out there.
"Enterprise" software is usually the worst offender. I think the
primary reason for this is that it is an easier sell. Managers who are making purchasing decisions understand the concept of a monolithic software package, they don't understand the concept of using existing tools to formulate a solution. It isn't as easy to separate people
from their money in getting them to use what they have already effectively.
There are times when I wish I had become a developer (but I would
probably ONLY enjoy developing for embeded systems). There are other times I think that software developers are the lowest form of
"engineers" and largely useless (at least those working
'professionally', there are many fine developers working on Free
Software tools). We as a society are far too accepting of their substandard practices.
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Thu Oct 15 2020 01:03 am
It is the task at hand which drives the hardware. Whether it is the need to visualise something in detail, to process digital signals in real time, to decode multiple video streams simulatneously, store digital media, etc. Software is the missing piece that makes that possible.
There are many tasks that don't require specialized hardware though. A lot of software is developed for general-purpose devices like a desktop/laptop PC, smartphone, etc., to do various tasks, from reading email, to a game, to browsing the web, etc.. Though it's true in some cases that some tasks need a specific hardware device built for the
task.
Nightfox
Dennisk wrote to Gamgee <=-
Phones and computers are so cheap now that
almost anyone can purchase a new phone, tablet or laptop every
2-3 years. That means more hardware and software units sold.
Everyone's happy including the consumer who gets to justify
purchasing a shiny new gadget every couple of years.
You are so far out of touch with reality that it's comical to read
your ramblings. Thanks for the entertainment! LOL
The idea that the phone would replace the desktop/laptop was
always laughable, and puzzling.
That usually is a cheap way to appear "savvy". proclaim that
development X is the future and will obsolete Y. Just saying
that makes you sound 'futuristic' because you are imagining major
change.
Software developers get it wrong. They see their job as getting frameworks or software to do things. Wrong. The purpose of software is to get HARDWARE to do things. Software developers exist in order to get hardware which has the potential to complete a task, to do it. Software exists in order to get hardware to fulfil its intended purpose. It is not the role of hardware to support software, it is the other way around.
In this respect, the industry fails significantly. There is a lot of hardware which physically can perform tasks, which they are unable to employ effectively. I view it this way, imagine you are running a company which chauffers people, and the people you pay to drive it, say they can't operate many of the cars. Its not you or your cars which is the problem, and has to go, its the drivers. They are deficient.
So because software developers mistakenly think the role of hardware is to support software (not the other way around), they are largely deficient.
"Consumers" accept this, because they have bought into this flawed view, and don't know better.
How and why would gaming be any different? I struggle to keep up
with your sweeping generalities.
Even I didn't know what a RPi was until this year. I genuinely thought it wa version of Android, like Jelly Bean.
I forget what TV show it was, but they said a Raspberry Pi was a super leet hacker tool that was worth tens of thousands of dollars.. and in the end the good guys were able to get the Raspberry Pi so the bad guys couldn't do their nefarious deeds!
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
Gamgee wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to Gamgee <=-
Phones and computers are so cheap now that
almost anyone can purchase a new phone, tablet or laptop every
2-3 years. That means more hardware and software units sold.
Everyone's happy including the consumer who gets to justify
purchasing a shiny new gadget every couple of years.
You are so far out of touch with reality that it's comical to read
your ramblings. Thanks for the entertainment! LOL
The idea that the phone would replace the desktop/laptop was
always laughable, and puzzling.
Indeed.
That usually is a cheap way to appear "savvy". proclaim that
development X is the future and will obsolete Y. Just saying
that makes you sound 'futuristic' because you are imagining major
change.
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Oct 14 2020 11:22 pm
Software developers get it wrong. They see their job as getting frameworks or software to do things. Wrong. The purpose of software is to get HARDWARE to do things. Software developers exist in order to get hardware which has the potential to complete a task, to do it. Software exists in order to get hardware to fulfil its intended purpose. It is not the role of hardware to support software, it is the other way around.
In this respect, the industry fails significantly. There is a lot of hardware which physically can perform tasks, which they are unable to employ effectively. I view it this way, imagine you are running a company which chauffers people, and the people you pay to drive it, say they can't operate many of the cars. Its not you or your cars which is the problem, and has to go, its the drivers. They are deficient.
So because software developers mistakenly think the role of hardware is to support software (not the other way around), they are largely deficient.
"Consumers" accept this, because they have bought into this flawed view, and don't know better.
You are preaching to the choir. I think you have hit the nail in the
head and have answered your own question by saying we live in a
consumer economy. We have this kind of attitude that anything which is over 2-3 years old is obsolete whether it's a car, computer/phone, clothing, etc... software developers are inducted into a paradigm
whereby they believe that the consumer will always replace their
computer systems and therefore only consider supporting a narrow band
of recently released systems with the most up-to-date service packs.
They know that it's more efficient to build frameworks that are unsupported by older systems as enough people are going to purchase
their product. Any notions of optimisation and trying to get the most
out of the hardware is lost as the benefits don't justify the costs.
A good example of developers working with limited hardware is console
game development. I am astounded at what developers can produce on
limited tech... a modest PS4 released in 2013 with a pitifully slow CPU and a 1.7 teraflop GPU could run a game such as Red Dead Redemption 2
in 2018. The developers must have tapped deep into the metal to produce such a technological masterpiece; it's literally a generation ahead of anything I've ever seen from a graphical standpoint. My friend had a high-end PC back then with a solid 7th gen i7 CPU and a GTX1080. His hardware was around 5 times more powerful than a standard PS4 and yet I had never seen it produce anything as impressive or advanced as a
console running RDR2. When developers are constrained by hardware limitations, they can still pull miracles out of the bag.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Wed Oct 14 2020 07:42 am
How and why would gaming be any different? I struggle to keep up
with your sweeping generalities.
When you're talking about trends and things in general, you're
going to make sweeping generalities. I can't make a point and
include every single use case, esoteric or otherwise... I'd be
there forever.
Anyway, I think I am done with you. I should REALLY stop feeding
the troll.
Bob Roberts wrote to Gamgee <=-
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all
suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
Check out "Utopia" on Amazon Prime to explore this idea further.
Dennisk wrote to Gamgee <=-
That usually is a cheap way to appear "savvy". proclaim that
development X is the future and will obsolete Y. Just saying
that makes you sound 'futuristic' because you are imagining major
change.
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
That was just scary. People who push any type of "Brave New
World" ideology worry me greatly. It's a thin veneer of futurism
painted over an authoritarian and domineering mindset.
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
Check out "Utopia" on Amazon Prime to explore this idea further.
That was just scary. People who push any type of "Brave New World" ideology worry me greatly. It's a thin veneer of futurism painted over an authoritarian and domineering mindset.
That is the tautology I was referring to. Software developers argue that people replace their hardware frequently, but software getting more bloated, or simply just failing to maintain itself is one of the prime reasons why hardware is replaced. It's you having to replace your car every few years because when I drive it I run it into the ground, but I argue that its OK to run it into the ground because you replace it every few years.
My position is to go further. I'm making the claim that the software industry in many respect is FAILING. Consider the exhorbitant Real Estate costs in Australia, where many are priced out of being able to own a home. The industry says it is successful, despite the obvious objective and empirically demonstrated facts. They say they are successful because they are choosing the metrics that suit them. Software devs are the same. They choose self-serving metrics and criteria, then make their points. But, hardware is created in order for human beings to use as tools, and if software developers are not capable of employing that hardware (in cases where the hardware does have the capacity), then they are failing. Not just being ineffecient, not just following different 'paradigms', but failing to fulfil the role that society needs. They are no different to chauffers who cannot, or won't, drive particular types of cars.
There are of course, as you noted, good developers and good design, but there is enough bad design and bad development to be a problem.
When you're talking about trends and things in general, you're
going to make sweeping generalities. I can't make a point and
include every single use case, esoteric or otherwise... I'd be
there forever.
The difference with you is.... that every single post you make is
that way. The sign of a Blowviator.
Anyway, I think I am done with you. I should REALLY stop feeding
the troll.
You're confused. I am not a troll, I'm simply somebody who calls
out bullshit when I see it. Your wild claims and constant
speaking in generalities (so you can't be pinned down on anything)
fall into that bullshit category. One of those guys who knows
everything (or thinks so), has done everything, and has a great
need to tell everyone about it. Very obvious.
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technological progression and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to
The idea is kind of irritating and repulsive to me, so I'll
pass... Thanks, though. ;-)
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Bob Roberts to Gamgee on Thu Oct 15 2020 01:01 pm
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
Check out "Utopia" on Amazon Prime to explore this idea further.
Gamgee likes to oversimplify all my arguments. He's a buffoon.
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becoming a bor like entity is the natural progression for all this technological progressio and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
Gamgee likes to oversimplify all my arguments. He's a buffoon.
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technological
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite
foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness
and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all
this technological progression and artificial intelligence. It may
not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near
future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI
interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Nightfox
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Gamgee on Thu Oct 15 2020 10:27 pm
That was just scary. People who push any type of "Brave New World" ideology worry me greatly. It's a thin veneer of futurism painted over an authoritarian and domineering mindset.
I am not pushing the ideology. There are aspects of it I do like, such
as the absence of physical suffering, however I did note that there
were significant drawbacks such as the loss of privacy and personal freedoms. I think, with technology advancing at such a rapid rate, we
are heading in this direction... so I guess you'd better like it or
lump it.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Oct 15 2020 11:04 pm
That is the tautology I was referring to. Software developers argue that people replace their hardware frequently, but software getting more bloated, or simply just failing to maintain itself is one of the prime reasons why hardware is replaced. It's you having to replace your car every few years because when I drive it I run it into the ground, but I argue that its OK to run it into the ground because you replace it every few years.
My position is to go further. I'm making the claim that the software industry in many respect is FAILING. Consider the exhorbitant Real Estate costs in Australia, where many are priced out of being able to own a home. The industry says it is successful, despite the obvious objective and empirically demonstrated facts. They say they are successful because they are choosing the metrics that suit them. Software devs are the same. They choose self-serving metrics and criteria, then make their points. But, hardware is created in order for human beings to use as tools, and if software developers are not capable of employing that hardware (in cases where the hardware does have the capacity), then they are failing. Not just being ineffecient, not just following different 'paradigms', but failing to fulfil the role that society needs. They are no different to chauffers who cannot, or won't, drive particular types of cars.
There are of course, as you noted, good developers and good design, but there is enough bad design and bad development to be a problem.
Something's got to give. As we've discussed before, I believe rabid consumerism is about to end. There will be some very trying times ahead during which we will not, as a civilisation, be able to drive a
consumer based economy. The reasource based economy you previously
spoke of will likely be ushered in during this period. Software development, at this rate, will have to take into account a broader
scope of hardware thus breaking the tautology of software driving the hardware and hardware driving the software. Developers are going to
have to become pragmatic and focus on the NEEDS of the end user rather than the requirements of a consumer based economy. In this example,
good design and good development will be heavily rewarded.
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technological progression and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 08:12 am
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite
foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness
and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all
this technological progression and artificial intelligence. It may
not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near
future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI
interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Nightfox
i think humanity should lose all its freewill for the next 6
generations. it should be programmed to improve itself and control population and come up with new useful technologies. then after that, give the free will back and we can go back to hating eachother based on our skin color. ---
Andeddu wrote to Bob Roberts <=-
Yup. That's a perfect description of this Andeddu goof. A
blow-hard know-it-all. He's the same guy who's convinced that it
would be better for us all to get some kind of neuro-implants and
be controlled by a Borg, for the "good of humanity". To end all suffering. To fill the world with kindness. LOL
Check out "Utopia" on Amazon Prime to explore this idea further.
All these things are coming though,
so he's going to appear quite
foolish in the next decade or so.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
That was just scary. People who push any type of "Brave New World" ideology worry me greatly. It's a thin veneer of futurism painted over an authoritarian and domineering mindset.
I am not pushing the ideology. There are aspects of it I do like,
such as the absence of physical suffering, however I did note
that there were significant drawbacks such as the loss of privacy
and personal freedoms. I think, with technology advancing at such
a rapid rate, we are heading in this direction... so I guess
you'd better like it or lump it.
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
Well fuckign said.
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
You talk like a bad text book. I suspect because in real life you're really not too smart. You put a lot of big words together to impress people but don't really say anything. Nothing of interest anyway.
anything.
gamgee is a nobody mosquito of a human being so i just block him.
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
While I agree we are in for changes, the question is, whether we will be
in control of the changes due to a conscious decision to veer off a path with undersirable results and take one with a more desirable outcome.
Or will we simply be smacked in the face by reality and forced when
things go awry?
I'm guessing the latter. We will continue with bad practices until
things collapse, rather than avert the problems.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:35 am
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
I don't disagree. I am saying that in the not too distant future people are going to have to become vocal on issues such as transhumanism. It
will begin with something small like an implant in your arm and then metastasize into something far more invasive, such as Neuralink. People have been writing for a long time about RFID implants.
An article from The Atlantic entitled "Why You're Probably Getting a Microchip Implant Someday - Microchip implants are going from tech-geek novelty to genuine health tool, and you might be running out of good reasons to say no" is one of many articles looking to promulgate the notion that technology IN the body is the best way forward and those
who oppose such advancements are cretinous Luddites.
Technology is going to take incredible leaps and bounds this decade especially in fields such as neural and bioengineering along with AI
and machine learning. I just hope that people are going to be given a CHOICE in regards to what gets put into their bodies as, with
measurable health benefits, I can see big tech justifying implants the same way as big pharma pushes vaccines.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:37 am
While I agree we are in for changes, the question is, whether we will be
in control of the changes due to a conscious decision to veer off a path with undersirable results and take one with a more desirable outcome.
Or will we simply be smacked in the face by reality and forced when
things go awry?
I'm guessing the latter. We will continue with bad practices until
things collapse, rather than avert the problems.
I guess the latter also. Look at the investment banking industry as an example... there are a lot of smart people involved however rather than making changes to their practices after a financial crash, they double down and make a conscious decision to keep doing the exact same thing
that caused the prior crash. It is human nature to continue a pattern
of behaviour until reality smacks you in the face forcing you to veer
off the beaten path and onto a new untreaded one.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 08:12 am
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite
foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness
and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all
this technological progression and artificial intelligence. It may
not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near
future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI
interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Nightfox
i think humanity should lose all its freewill for the next 6 generations. it achother based on our skin color.
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite fooli in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becomi a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technologica progression and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Sci-fi is just a vision of the contemporary world with futuristic technology. Sci-fi is not that good in making guesses about where
things are going overall. You get better insights about humanity from writers like Nietszche or Zizek, or Huxley.
I enjoy reading Sci-fi, but its mostly fantasy. Whenever someone uses
Star Trek as some kind of window in the future, I mentally flag them as being retarded.
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 08:12 am
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
We would probably have to stop this kind of invasive progression
early on otherwise the humans of tomorrow could become enthralled
and offer only passive resistance.
You must remember that every generation has a completely different
mindset than the previous one.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:35 am
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
I don't disagree. I am saying that in the not too distant future
people are going to have to become vocal on issues such as
transhumanism.
It will begin with something small like an implant
in your arm and then metastasize into something far more
invasive, such as Neuralink. People have been writing for a long
time about RFID implants.
An article from The Atlantic entitled "Why You're Probably
Getting a Microchip Implant Someday - Microchip implants are
going from tech-geek novelty to genuine health tool, and you
might be running out of good reasons to say no" is one of many
articles looking to promulgate the notion that technology IN the
body is the best way forward and those who oppose such
advancements are cretinous Luddites.
Technology is going to take incredible leaps and bounds this
decade especially in fields such as neural and bioengineering
along with AI and machine learning.
I just hope that people are
going to be given a CHOICE in regards to what gets put into their
bodies as, with measurable health benefits, I can see big tech
justifying implants the same way as big pharma pushes vaccines.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 05:22 pm
gamgee is a nobody mosquito of a human being so i just block him.
I have tried to reason with him however he doesn't seem to have the capacity to ignore me, or resist the temptation of typing something childish on the internet in an attempt to "roast" me. I'll just have to follow your lead and block him.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sat Oct 17 2020 08:42 pm
If I was at a party with you guys, would this be the conversation we would be having?
I don't think people should be given a choice. It should simply be forbidden. Lets say you give people a "choice". What will then happen? You'll have some people, maybe many who use it, and some who don't. We would start to see systems change to accomodate them. Maybe banks will
use them as a convienience, pub and clubs use them for entries, schools
use them to track grade. You could legally choose to opt out, but you
may find that you get left out of many things. You may find it
impractical to go without. Maybe many companies won't hire, many
services may simply not bother to have an alternative.
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for
instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
So these impants, if allowed to develop will become de-facto mandatory, because you'll increasingly have to detach from society to function
without one. Even if many people DON'T want one, they'll find
themselves in a situation where forces push them to grudgingly get one.
This is where I start to see where some luddites are coming from.
Technology never remains 'opt in'.
The reason they did this, was because they could get away with it. In tribal socities, such people would have been ejected or killed. It
actually is somewhat untrue when people say this is part of human
behaviour, because there is also an element of human behaviour
(retribution) which eliminates this and keeps it in check. That is, in
a more "natural" society, where the leaders are in proximity to those
that lead, pathological behaviour is eliminated. There are checks and balances which would moderate such things. These are gone now, and
those tasked with keeping these financial crooks in line are either powerless, weak or corrupt.
This is a problem of civilisation keeping such people separate, and therefore out of the reach of pitchforks. It is in actually BAD for our civilisation. The laws and security which protect and anonymise such
people actually can in some times, lead to a net detriment.
But.... isn't that what you and the other "transhumanism" freaks
want to happen?
I just hope that people are
going to be given a CHOICE in regards to what gets put into their bodies as, with measurable health benefits, I can see big tech justifying implants the same way as big pharma pushes vaccines.
Ahhh, so you're an "anti-vaxxer" too, eh? That fits.
If I was at a party with you guys, would this be the conversation we would be having?
If I was at a party with you guys, would this be the conversation wethat would be a very boring party
would be having?
I'm not saying I want it to happen. I'm saying it probably will happen, so I'll be making a decision whenever the time comes. As it stands, I don't really feel like I want any chips in my body.
Young people are very comfortable with technology, unlike the baby boomers and Generation X... they would be much more amenable to the idea of transhumanism than the posters here.
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
I think that was "God Friended Me"? I had mentioned that in an earlier post They said a Raspberry Pi cost around $10,000 or something.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:44 am
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite fooli in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becomi a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technologica progression and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Sci-fi is just a vision of the contemporary world with futuristic technology. Sci-fi is not that good in making guesses about where
things are going overall. You get better insights about humanity from writers like Nietszche or Zizek, or Huxley.
I enjoy reading Sci-fi, but its mostly fantasy. Whenever someone uses
Star Trek as some kind of window in the future, I mentally flag them as being retarded.
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
Start Trek is more of a philosophy than a vision of the future. At
least what was inspired by the original series. It's an interesting notion that people can grow beyond the petty things that set us back to allow us to pursue pure scientific discovery and exploration. As seen
on the show, that is more or less a dream since the rest of the
universe doesn't work that way.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 10:15 am
I don't think people should be given a choice. It should simply be forbidden. Lets say you give people a "choice". What will then happen? You'll have some people, maybe many who use it, and some who don't. We would start to see systems change to accomodate them. Maybe banks will
use them as a convienience, pub and clubs use them for entries, schools
use them to track grade. You could legally choose to opt out, but you
may find that you get left out of many things. You may find it
impractical to go without. Maybe many companies won't hire, many
services may simply not bother to have an alternative.
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for
instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
So these impants, if allowed to develop will become de-facto mandatory, because you'll increasingly have to detach from society to function
without one. Even if many people DON'T want one, they'll find
themselves in a situation where forces push them to grudgingly get one.
This is where I start to see where some luddites are coming from.
Technology never remains 'opt in'.
Call it insidious but they way they'll introduce implants is by pushing smart prosthetics which will give the wearer a much more authentic
feeling and useful appendage. They'll make the blind see, and replace organs such as our liver, heart and lungs. Then the upgrades will
arrive. Prosthetics that improve on what nature has given us. Neural
chips that allow us to interface with terminals and access the internet and cloud systems along with controlling our smart homes. Struggling to catch a good night's kip? No problem, they'll make something akin to a Penfield Mood Organ which will emit a low-level relaxing frequency deep into your brain allowing you do dose off gently to sleep. These technologies are likely going to be with us within the next two
decades. None of them are going to usurp the brain's ability to think
for itself, no machine learning or true AI delegation. That will come,
but probably not within the frame of our lifetimes.
Technology is always marching forward, it cannot be stopped. We went
from cave dwellers to web-surfers in little under 10,000 years. Unless
we end up losing all our knowledge chips are going to get smaller and
more powerful and more connected to everything around us. There will always be people willing to try new things in an attempt to push
humanity further; I don't think there will be any shortage of
volunteers, especially once the celebrity endorsements appear.
You're right though. Once body mods and and implants reach a critical mass, they may as well be mandatory. They'll become part of a NEW
social contract without which you will be doomed to languish in
societies' lowest rungs. It's a terrifying prospect, but that's the
nature of progress.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 10:22 am
The reason they did this, was because they could get away with it. In tribal socities, such people would have been ejected or killed. It
actually is somewhat untrue when people say this is part of human
behaviour, because there is also an element of human behaviour
(retribution) which eliminates this and keeps it in check. That is, in
a more "natural" society, where the leaders are in proximity to those
that lead, pathological behaviour is eliminated. There are checks and balances which would moderate such things. These are gone now, and
those tasked with keeping these financial crooks in line are either powerless, weak or corrupt.
This is a problem of civilisation keeping such people separate, and therefore out of the reach of pitchforks. It is in actually BAD for our civilisation. The laws and security which protect and anonymise such
people actually can in some times, lead to a net detriment.
Those who do it know they can get away with it with impunity. They know they're going to cause carnage and long-term suffering for so many families, but there's almost zero actual risk to them. They hide behind faceless monolithic organisations knowing they can never be identified, singled out or ran out of town by pitch-fork wielding citizens. There
are no more cheques and balances and we as a species have proven
ourselves to be docile and servile... to a point.
There was a peasants' revolt in England in 1381 where the serfs fought
for lower taxes and a new and better system. They ended up killing the Lord Chancellor, the Lord High Treasurer along with many royal and government officials causing the king to yield to their demands.
There's a lesson to be learned by today's officals so efforts can be
made to prevent history from repeating itself.
Ginger1 wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Sun Oct 18 2020 19:35:00
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
I'm experiencing this myself. And it's an unpleasant feeling - feeling detached from society or that somehow society has collectively decided
to move in a direction you're not willing to, but then feeling increasingly isolated.
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in
UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters
to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen.
Eventually, I asked at an information desk and was told all of the information was "now online". Not having a smart phone anymore, this
was annoying. But for an older person they're now forced to either
buy-in and deepen Google/Apple profits (and become addicted) or face
long walks negotiating escalators and crowds to then queue to see the
one information clerk. This strikes me as poor. What's the alternative though? Things move on right? We need to just get with the times...I
think that will be the inevitable answer to this in the minds of many, unless people start to push back a bit so that technology stays
optional in society. What's the good of living in a supposedly free democracy which values free choice, when your choice is now reduced
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen. Eventually, I asked at an information desk and was told all of the informati was "now online". Not having a smart phone anymore, this was annoying. But f
Unfortunately, most people are petty. I bet Gene Roddonberry didn't think that in 2020 that Western Society would think that the biggest advancements were getting people to use Xer/Xe pronouns.
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen.
It cost too much to have those posters printed and then securly hung on the walls. Much cheaper to put the train times online. That's what technology does. It makes things more effient for less money. People need to stop fighting technology and just learn how to use it. ;-)
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a dumb phone over a smart phone. Yeah I get not wanting to be constantly interrupted, but all those notifications are under the users control and can be adjusted and turned off with granular control.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Some sort of non-binary pronouns?
I saw someone's profile online that said their preferred pronouns were It/Them. I can stand behind that.
I don't think I'd make the blanket statement that all of baby boomers and generation X aren't comfortable with technology. Those are the generations that started building the internet, microcomputers, BBSes, etc.. I'm more of "generation Y" and I really like technology (and my dad always had a computer at home, so I was used to that), but I wouldn't want a chip in my body. Perhaps unless it was fairly benign, or perhaps is actually helpful (like controlling an artificial limb, if I ever need one). I've heard people talking about the governments wanting ID chips implanted in people, and I don't like that idea.
The reason I think things like implanted chips for banking will be what control us, is that these problems are easier to solve the making the blind see. We'll get that technology first.
As it is now, the revolt is conducted by those voting for populists like Trump.
It's certainly more peaceful, but is it effective?
Young people are very comfortable with technology, unlike the baby
boomers and Generation X... they would be much more amenable to the
idea of transhumanism than the posters here.
I don't think I'd make the blanket statement that all of baby boomers and generation X aren't comfortable with technology. Those are the generations that started building the internet, microcomputers, BBSes, etc.. I'm more of "generation Y" and I really like technology (and my dad always had a computer at home, so I was used to that), but I wouldn't want a chip in my
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of the people in orange aprons where I could find a specific item. She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone and look it up myself, but she'd do it for me - like she was doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame technology any day now.
I've thought about taking that 30-day "dumb phone" challenge. The one thing I'd miss more than anything is map capability, I'd
need to pick up one of those Thomas' Guides we all had in the seat back pocket of our cars in the '90s.
Making notifications opt-in instead of opt-out would be nice. I'd like it if nothing tried to get my attention unless I
requested it do so. When I had a candy bar phone, I forwarded messages from specific people to a text message, and it worked
I think of the amount of time I spend looking at my phone reading social networks and think of how I could get done if I used
that time to create something instead of consuming content.
RFID chips are already implanted in SOME workers today. I hear government officials in destabilised economies such as Mexico have tracking chips in th event they get kidnapped by the cartels. It's not necessarily a bad thing, b I hear what you're saying about a government that's TOO powerful. People see not to care about privacy as no rational person thinks the goverment is actively interested in them. Why would the CIA, FBI, MI5, GCHQ, etc... be interested in little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of people
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Mon Oct 19 2020 09:13 pm
Unfortunately, most people are petty. I bet Gene Roddonberry didn't think that in 2020 that Western Society would think that the biggest advancements were getting people to use Xer/Xe pronouns.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Bob Roberts wrote to Ginger1 <=-
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen.
All the transit times and information are available in Google
Maps.
When I traveled to the UK getting around was so easy
because I could plug in my destination into Google Maps, and it
would show me what train to take from what platform, down to the
entrance and exits of which tube stations to use. Then guide me
every step of the way.
Thats a million times better then posters on the wall. Half the
time I can't figure out the weird tables and grids on those
posters anyways.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a
dumb phone over a smart phone.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to HusTler <=-the
It cost too much to have those posters printed and then securly hung on
walls. Much cheaper to put the train times online. That's what technology does. It makes things more effient for less money. People need to stop fighting technology and just learn how to use it. ;-)
Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't
have service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the
train with a candy bar phone.
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of
the people in orange aprons where I could find a specific item.
She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone
and look it up myself, but she'd do it for me - like she was
doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame
technology any day now.
Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-
I don't think I'd make the blanket statement that all of baby boomers and generation X aren't comfortable with technology. Those are the generations that started building the internet, microcomputers, BBSes, etc.. I'm more of "generation Y" and I really like technology (and my dad always had a computer at home, so I was used to that), but I wouldn't want a chip in my body. Perhaps unless it was fairly benign, or perhaps is actually helpful (like controlling an artificial limb, if I ever need one). I've heard people talking about the governments wanting ID chips implanted in people, and I don't like that idea.
I didn't make a blanket statement, it was a general one. I am
aware that the internet existed before I was born therefore not
ALL boomers are uncomfortable with technology. I was clearly
saying that there's a higher percentage of people MORE amenable
to technology from generation to generation.
I respect that you're against chipping but it'll never be sold as
a bad idea. If your mindset is as straight forward as "I will NOT
have an ID chip in my body unless I require one for a medical
purpose" then fine. But like Dennisk said, if banks and such like
said that only people who are chipped can open a deposit account,
you will be forced to override your principles to partake in
modern society.
Anyway, we can discuss this subject again if we DO see things
like this occur in real life.
Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't have service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the train with a candy bar phone.
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of the people in orange aprons where I could find a specific item. She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone and look it up myself, but she'd do it for me - like she was doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame technology any day now.
RFID chips are already implanted in SOME workers today. I hear government officials in destabilised economies such as Mexico have tracking chips in the event they get kidnapped by the cartels. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but
I hear what you're saying about a government that's TOO powerful. People seem not to care about privacy as no rational person thinks the goverment is actively interested in them. Why would the CIA, FBI, MI5, GCHQ, etc... be interested in little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of people.
I suppose it better be enough, because if it isn't... there will be MORE violence in the streets. I see that around 44% of Republicans and 41% of Democrats now say that there would be at least "a little" justification for violence should the other party's nominee win the election.
i dont think us old folks are uncomfortable with technology. we may be ignorant of some popular sites at the most.
people in their 30s and younger are fucking stupid with technology usually.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Replacements for Her/He, for those who don't know what gender they
are, or want to be. Boggles the freakin mind.
little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think
technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of
people.
Looks like "Demolition Man" is only a few decades off.
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of the people orange aprons where I could find a specific item. She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone and look it up myself, but she'd do it f me - like she was doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame technology any day now.
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Mon Oct 19 2020 09:13 pm
Unfortunately, most people are petty. I bet Gene Roddonberry didn't think that in 2020 that Western Society would think that the biggest advancements were getting people to use Xer/Xe pronouns.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 19 2020 09:15 pm
The reason I think things like implanted chips for banking will be what control us, is that these problems are easier to solve the making the blind see. We'll get that technology first.
It's easier to say no to that kind of thing though. There's been a lot
of talk about moving onto a digital currency on an account you can
track on a smart phone app. That itself is a powerful control tool.
We're talking about implants but they're not even required. I suppose
if control is what you're looking for, there are easier ways.
RFID chips are already implanted in SOME workers today. I hear
government officials in destabilised economies such as Mexico have tracking chips in the event they get kidnapped by the cartels. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I hear what you're saying about a
government that's TOO powerful. People seem not to care about privacy
as no rational person thinks the goverment is actively interested in
them. Why would the CIA, FBI, MI5, GCHQ, etc... be interested in little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of people.
On 10-19-20 20:41, Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
I've seen people adopting other pronouns and specifying what pronouns
they want to use. I just hadn't heard them referred to as "Xer/Xe" pronouns.
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
It's easy to say no to a long of things. You can say no to having your
ID scanned when you go to a pub, its just you can't go to all the pubs.
You can say not to being tracked by your mobile, but it limits your mobile, and maybe locks you out of apps which you may need to do other things with.
Does the Home Depot App direct you to the isle too? Is this something new? It's been a while since I've been to a home depot. I think I'd need a home before I stepped into a home depot. ;-) But no kidding? If I need a 1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
All the transit times and information are available in Google
Maps.
That's great, assuming one can access Google Maps. What if you
couldn't do that (for whatever reason)?
Maybe they don't want to be a slave to a device. Maybe they can't
afford a smart phone. Maybe they forgot their phone at home.
Or the multitudes of poverty-stricken people that barely can feed themselves and have zero money left over?
On 10/19/2020 9:55 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't have
service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the train with a
candy bar phone.
Umn, I live in a city with buses and people seem to have managed since I was a relatively young kid without the full schedule (or any schedule)
at most of the bus stops. They had printed pamplets for the routes on
the buses themselves and included some intersecting routes.
I feel like I grew up with technology. I grew up using computers and saw BBSing, PC gaming, the rise of internet at home, and now mobile devices (for a while now). I think I'm fairly technically savvy. I have noticed some younger people who seem to be mainly used to mobile devices and game consoles and don't know a whole lot about computers or technology in general.
It's been a while since I've been to a home depot. I think I'd need a home before I stepped into a home depot. ;-) But no kidding? If I need a 1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
the pubs. You can say not to being tracked by your mobile, but it
limits your mobile, and maybe locks you out of apps which you may
need to do other things with.
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
always worries me given I'm not sure how much information is on a
driver's license mag strip. I feel like asking for a copy of their
provacy policy and an opt-out form when I hand over my license.
The alternative is they could stop being lazy, cheap assholes and put timetables up. This "move with the times" nonsense for the MOST part is just an excuse. We've had timetables for what, decades, centuries now? And now they say they can't do it? I bet they use arguments like
"saving paper" or some other nonsense.
No offense, but these days the UK is pretty 'naff.
I don't have a problem with progress, but it should be progress, not
tech fetishism and bandwagon jumping.
It cost too much to have those posters printed and then securly hung on the walls. Much cheaper to put the train times online. That's what technology does. It makes things more effient for less money. People
need to stop fighting technology and just learn how to use it. ;-)
Thats a million times better then posters on the wall. Half the time I can't figure out the weird tables and grids on those posters anyways.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a dumb
phone over a smart phone. Yeah I get not wanting to be constantly interrupted, but all those notifications are under the users control and can be adjusted and turned off with granular control.
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I feel like I grew up with technology. I grew up using computers and
saw BBSing, PC gaming, the rise of internet at home, and now mobile
devices (for a while now). I think I'm fairly technically savvy. I
have noticed some younger people who seem to be mainly used to
mobile devices and game consoles and don't know a whole lot about
computers or technology in general.
in schools they dont teach computer usage the way they did with people who are now in their 40s. not in my experience. my son is 26 now and my step daughter is 13. so i went through this a few times.
Bob Roberts wrote to Gamgee <=-
All the transit times and information are available in Google
Maps.
That's great, assuming one can access Google Maps. What if you
couldn't do that (for whatever reason)?
Google Maps allows you to download and store the maps for a city
or region on your device, so you can still use it without any connectivity. In addition most underground stations in developed
counties have full coverage, so not a concern.
Maybe they don't want to be a slave to a device. Maybe they can't
afford a smart phone. Maybe they forgot their phone at home.
It's interesting how you associate using a smart phone with being
a slave to the device.
Perhaps this is a personal issue you need to review.
I would imagine is quite a spectrum between "using"
or "owning" a smart phone and being a "slave" to it.
Or the multitudes of poverty-stricken people that barely can feed themselves and have zero money left over?
I've not seen a single poverty-stricken person that doesn't have
a smartphone.
They are basically an essential service to access
benefits, banking, and access public services. If you are low
income you can google for special benefits which can include a
free or heavily discounted smart phone and service.
Your driver's license is magnetized? I hadn't heard of that being done before.
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
Does the Home Depot App direct you to the isle too? Is this something
I've used their website often for exactly that purpose, so I'd imagine the a would do it. The Walmart app does provide such, so I'd imagine it's become quite standard.
That's one example of all this crap ACTUALLY being useful... for the 99% flu and waste of server space stuff like TikTok is, someone has something practi that actually helps people get something done. _____
Kurisu Yamato
1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find
it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
not just the isle. the exact fucking place it's at.
Wow. I got to get out more. lol
I use TikTok whenever I'm on the crapper. It's very helpful to me. The app really gets things moving ;-)
On 10-20-20 15:39, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-
@VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I thought part of being non-binary was that there should not be two pronouns. So, I get "xe", but why are there two, "Xer/Xe"?
Also, is the 'x' pronounced as a zed?
On 10-20-20 21:56, Kurisu wrote to HusTler <=-
I use TikTok whenever I'm on the crapper. It's very helpful to me. The app really gets things moving ;-)
That's a fair use. I personaly have a religious policy to never, ever touch their servers willingly. Self care and all that, haha. _____
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
It's easy to say no to a long of things. You can say no to having your
ID scanned when you go to a pub, its just you can't go to all the pubs.
You can say not to being tracked by your mobile, but it limits your mobile, and maybe locks you out of apps which you may need to do other things with.
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
always worries me given I'm not sure how much information is on a
driver's license mag strip. I feel like asking for a copy of their
provacy policy and an opt-out form when I hand over my license.
--- MRO wrote ---
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
--- GINGER1 wrote ---
At 10:44 PM on 19 Oct 20, Dennisk said to Ginger1:
No offense, but these days the UK is pretty 'naff.
Yes, it's really not great. I remember in the film Shadowlands (I think it was) the American lady says to her British love interest about Britain: "Don't stop being charming [as a country] because if you're just inefficient, damp and grey there's not much going for you." Or words to
that effect. I think the UK stopped being charming a long time ago.
Dial-Up Nights BBS: +44(0)208 3633637 (9 pm - 6 am UTC)
I have zero interest in TikTok, the concept, from what I've seen, does nothing for me. So I've never had it on any of my devices.
Privacy is not a matter of distrusting the government ONLY.
Your friendly system administrator knows which smartphones were active in the corporate network on which hours. With some creative correlation and scripting your friendly sysadmin can find out Dr. Jack is always alone with Nurse Mary every week, the same day of the week, at the same hour, out of their working hours.
Automated surveillance does not care for little you because it does not care for anybody. It just stores EVERYTHING. It is when your friendly sysadmin starts playing with the data when interesting bits surface.
Then there is also the matter that nobody knows the full letter of the law in their countries, since modern law is convoluted and complex and often makes no sense. NOBODY can possibly affirm they are breaking no law, since they don't know the full scope of the law - lawyers included. It is my opinion that everybody is most likely a law-breaker without knowing it. Therefore, it makes sense to take care with the data you spread.
Notice something? You are having to "clarify" your position (AKA backpedaling) once again, and to somebody besides me. Oh, and you
*DID* make a blanket statement, like you frequently and
incorrectly do.
Yeah, and if pigs could fly they'd have wings.
Anyway, we can discuss this subject again if we DO see things
like this occur in real life.
Sounds good. Can we agree to put it off (and not discuss it)
until then?
Looks like "Demolition Man" is only a few decades off.
There's already been violence in the streets for 4+ months now.
Google Maps allows you to download and store the maps for a city
or region on your device, so you can still use it without any connectivity. In addition most underground stations in developed counties have full coverage, so not a concern.
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having
coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
Anyway, it sounds like you and "Andeddu" could become BFFs!
I first saw those pronouns in the mid 1990s. The person who used them was a leading autistic advocace of the say and xe was born intersex and identified as
non binary, from what I understand.
One thing about being involved in the autistic community is you get a really good education about gender and gender identity, because this is community with
a very high degree of gender diversity - many times that of the general population.
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
always worries me given I'm not sure how much information is on a
driver's license mag strip. I feel like asking for a copy of their
provacy policy and an opt-out form when I hand over my license.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 19 2020 07:51 pm
Tr> On 10/19/2020 9:55 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
>> Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't have
>> service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the train with a
>> candy bar phone.
Tr> Umn, I live in a city with buses and people seem to have managed since I
Tr> was a relatively young kid without the full schedule (or any schedule)
Tr> at most of the bus stops. They had printed pamplets for the routes on
Tr> the buses themselves and included some intersecting routes.
i rode the bus to work for many years. my company paid for it. it picked me up, i fell asleep and i woke up right before i'd get to work.
i rode the bus when i was in middle school and i knew all the routes.
so i knew everything about the bus system.
i could not fucking make heads or tails out of their bus schedule. it didnt make sense most of the time in regards to what side of street it was on. there were only 2 sides of the street but sometimes it was 3 different times.
also the bus drivers didnt make sure they hit those times, they just made sure they were at the transfer center on time.
and THAT is why i'd rather drive to work.
That black strip on the back is magnetically encoded, like a credit card. I don't think anyone's tried decoding what information is being given to places that scan it to confirm your age.
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Oct 20 2020 04:53 pm
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
Target scans for alcohol and for some over the counter medications, which annoys the hell out of me.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to HusTler on Tue Oct 20 2020 04:51 pm
1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can
find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
not just the isle. the exact fucking place it's at.
How does it work? GPS?? Do they have some kind of sensors. I worked security in Home Depot years ago and they used to plant these anti theft
I live in the UK where coverage is considered "very good" and I have never come across a subway or underground station with any kind of connection. Perhaps he's talking about WiFi but I still don't see that anywhere in underground stations. I see some lines such as London's Jubilee Line has 4G access but that's probably about it... so it still is a concern for most people.
Typically the poorer the country the MORE smartphones you will see, because it's the only option people have. They don't have computers, or home internet. It's how they stay connected to services, and stay entertained.
I've thought about taking that 30-day "dumb phone" challenge. The one
thing I'd miss more than anything is map capability, I'd need to pick up one of those Thomas' Guides we all had in the seat back pocket of our
cars in the '90s.
Do you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a very limited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are in the world?
Does the Home Depot App direct you to the isle too? Is this something new? It's been a while since I've been to a home depot. I think I'd
need a home before I stepped into a home depot. ;-) But no kidding? If I need a 1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
You live in this God forsaken socialist hell-hole as well? (:
It's interesting how you associate using a smart phone with being a
slave to the device. Perhaps this is a personal issue you need to
review. I would imagine is quite a spectrum between "using" or "owning"
a smart phone and being a "slave" to it.
in schools they dont teach computer usage the way they did with people
who are now in their 40s. not in my experience. my son is 26 now and
my step daughter is 13. so i went through this a few times.
In AZ there is a 2D barcode that's read optically.
I don't know why there's such a concerted movement by governmental agencies and private corporations to indiscriminately
collate all this data. I don't break the law and I don't do anything interesting enough to warrant the collection and storag
of my personal data, and this is true for 99% of the population who are just trying to live their lives.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Mon Oct 19 2020 07:53 pm
Looks like "Demolition Man" is only a few decades off.
As far as dystopian societies go, I don't think "Demolition Man" is the worst! Up until Simon Phoenix arrived, everyone seem
fairly happy and there certainly wasn't any violence other than from those freedom loving sewer dwellers.
It is the point. The "problems" you highlight (they don't work without signal, they are too expensive, they are addictive)
solved.
Latest iOS tracks screen time and show you reports on where you are spending time, how many times you pickup the phone, resp
to notifications etc. It's easy to then configure your notifications so they don't interupt your day-to-day.
Latest iOS supports usage quotas that allow you to set limits to how much apps can be used, or set a time period before bedt
where the apps lock themselves so you can't use them. Yes you can override in an emergency (or not) but the point is the to
are there to control addictions.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Notice something? You are having to "clarify" your position (AKA backpedaling) once again, and to somebody besides me. Oh, and you
*DID* make a blanket statement, like you frequently and
incorrectly do.
Yeah, and if pigs could fly they'd have wings.
Anyway, we can discuss this subject again if we DO see things
like this occur in real life.
Sounds good. Can we agree to put it off (and not discuss it)
until then?
I didn't think I'd have to clarify my position as the notion that
ALL boomers are technophobes is plainly ridiculous. It's
self-evident that a boomer like Bill Gates isn't a technophobe!
Agreed. I am happy to drop it until we see real world examples of
people en masse induced (or otherwise) to have chips or other
forms of technology implanted into their person.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Google Maps allows you to download and store the maps for a city
or region on your device, so you can still use it without any connectivity. In addition most underground stations in developed counties have full coverage, so not a concern.
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having
coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
I live in the UK where coverage is considered "very good" and I
have never come across a subway or underground station with any
kind of connection. Perhaps he's talking about WiFi but I still
don't see that anywhere in underground stations. I see some lines
such as London's Jubilee Line has 4G access but that's probably
about it... so it still is a concern for most people.
Anyway, it sounds like you and "Andeddu" could become BFFs!
No. I have genuine empathy for the elderly trying to navigate
around this increasingly complex and technological world.
Bob Roberts wrote to Gamgee <=-
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
You stated that Google Maps won't work where there is no signal.
I stated, Google Maps allows you to cache the maps for an entire
city on your device so you don't need signal.
You stated "most people don't know about that" and "Not really
the point anyways."
It is the point. The "problems" you highlight (they don't work
without signal, they are too expensive, they are addictive) are
solved.
Latest iOS tracks screen time and show you reports on where you
are spending time, how many times you pickup the phone, respond
to notifications etc. It's easy to then configure your
notifications so they don't interupt your day-to-day.
Latest iOS supports usage quotas that allow you to set limits to
how much apps can be used, or set a time period before bedtime
where the apps lock themselves so you can't use them. Yes you
can override in an emergency (or not) but the point is the tools
are there to control addictions.
As for people that can't afford smartphones. There are programs,
as stated. Spend 10 seconds on google and you'll find them.
These programs, for the qualified, provide free or heavily
discounted smartphones and service. Now, I don't know where you
live, I'm assuming you live in a 1st world Country.
Typically the poorer the country the MORE smartphones you will
see, because it's the only option people have. They don't have
computers, or home internet. It's how they stay connected to
services, and stay entertained.
Your rebuttal to my fact based arguments can't be "open your
eyes" or "that's not really the point". You can't refute facts
with opinion, otherwise the whole conversation is pointless.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
Target scans for alcohol and for some over the counter medications, which annoys the hell out of me.
oh, i dont shop at target. (except for baby stuff i do.)
otherwise i find their selection of everything overpriced and
limited.
There's already been violence in the streets for 4+ months now.
And things are going to get a lot worse as the Democrats will not put up with another term of Trump and the Republicans look like they'll blame voter fraud if they lose the election. Too much discord, not a happy nation.
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more cool if you: had a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting, paid attention to where you went in the store so you remember it next time (perhaps taking a precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep someone in their job?
My personal experience with the internet, over heavy use for 25 years, and especially when it became weaponised through a smart phone, is that it is addictive. Not just social media, but the whole damn thing.
The psychiatry diagnostic manuals of both Europe (ICD-10) and the US (DSM-5) recognise gaming addiction as real. Internet addiction will surely be next - it fulfills all the criteria for those addicted: E.g. Pre-occupation, continued use despite evidence of harm, increasing amounts, withdrawal effects.
The parallels for me personally between alcohol and the internet were real (although of course I'm not claiming it's as harmful). To continue the analogy, making internet addicts have smartphones is like making
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing education had become watered down with the loss of programming in the 2000s. He said "There's nothing wrong with teaching kids how to use Word. We just shouldn't call it computing. We should call it what it used to be called - typing practice".
happy nation.
I'm pretty sure about 15-20% of the country is going to cry "voter
fraud" no matter who wins.
Ginger1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
At 9:31 PM on 19 Oct 20, Gamgee said to Bob Roberts:
Do you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a very limited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are in the world?
This reminds me of something I saw recently that saddened me. A
couple of weeks ago, the UK government belatedly released a Covid
tracking smartphone app, where via bluetooth it constantly sniffs
out your proximity to other app users and logs that. If one of
those other app users gets a positive Covid test, it will alert
all of those recent logged close proximity contacts. Or something
like that.
On the day of its launch, a BBC news reporter stated you would be
being "selfish" if you didn't install it.
The following day, I saw an elderly (80s) couple, wearing gloves
and masks, trying to make sense of various smart phones in a
department store. I had the feeling this was the first time
they'd been out of their house since lockdown back in March or
whenever it was. And they didn't look adept at technology.
Who knows the real story - maybe they were actually app
developers looking to upgrade to the latest iPhone and had it
rooted that same day - and I'm being horribly ageist in assuming
they were anything else. But I suspect they weren't and had gone
out because of this pressure for everyone to have a smartphone.
I know this is an example of where such technology is genuinely
useful, but it makes me feel uneasy, knowing that the
shareholders of Google and Apple must be delirious with joy that
all of this is happening.
I don't know why there's such a concerted movement by governmental agencies private corporations to indiscriminately collate all this data. I don't brea the law and I don't do anything interesting enough to warrant the collection and storage of my personal data, and this is true for 99% of the population are just trying to live their lives.
How does it work? GPS?? Do they have some kind of sensors. I workedno, in the store everything has a place. so it will say isle L13 shelf 5 and
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to HusTler on Wed Oct 21 2020 04:50 pm
How does it work? GPS?? Do they have some kind of sensors. Ino, in the store everything has a place. so it will say isle L13 shelf
worked
5 and
Wow. That's a lot of preasure to put on the people that stock the shelves. What happens if you can't find what you're looking for? Is there like a Home Depot Cop to call?? ;-)
In San Francisco, the carriers put up microcells in the underground tubes, and got quite a bit of heat when they were asked to turn their towers off during a time of protest, to prevent people from organizing.
In many places that were farther behind the curve than we are in the USA, they skipped the copper infrastructure period and went straight to wireless. Especially in a rural country, it makes a lot of sense.
I'm slightly jealous reading some of the older columns about how much they could do in China with 2g/3g, SMS and a feature phone. ecommerce, payments, and pretty much everything else in a phone with a week-long (or longer!) battery life.
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing education had become watered down with the loss of programming in the 2000s. He said "There's nothing wrong with teaching kids how to use Word. We just shouldn't call it computing. We should call it what it used to be called - typing practice".
Your rebuttal to my fact based arguments can't be "open your
eyes" or "that's not really the point". You can't refute facts
with opinion, otherwise the whole conversation is pointless.
You're confusing facts with fiction/fantasy, apparently. "Open
your eyes" is very appropriate here. Not sure where you live, but
try expanding your tunnel-vision a little and perhaps you'll see.
Do you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a very limited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are in the
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more cool if you: a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting, paid attentio to where you went in the store so you remember it next time (perhaps taking precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep someone in their job?
slave to the device. Perhaps this is a personal issue you need to
review. I would imagine is quite a spectrum between "using" or "owning"
a smart phone and being a "slave" to it.
My personal experience with the internet, over heavy use for 25 years, and especially when it became weaponised through a smart phone, is that it is addictive. Not just social media, but the whole damn thing.
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I thought part of being non-binary was that there should not be two pronouns. So, I get "xe", but why are there two, "Xer/Xe"?
Also, is the 'x' pronounced as a zed?
* SLMR 2.1a * The four snack groups: cakes, crunchies, frozen, sweets.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Oct 19 2020 05:21 pm
Privacy is not a matter of distrusting the government ONLY.
Your friendly system administrator knows which smartphones were active in the corporate network on which hours. With some creative correlation and scripting your friendly sysadmin can find out Dr. Jack is always alone wi Nurse Mary every week, the same day of the week, at the same hour, out of their working hours.
Automated surveillance does not care for little you because it does not c for anybody. It just stores EVERYTHING. It is when your friendly sysadmin starts playing with the data when interesting bits surface.
Then there is also the matter that nobody knows the full letter of the la in their countries, since modern law is convoluted and complex and often makes no sense. NOBODY can possibly affirm they are breaking no law, sinc they don't know the full scope of the law - lawyers included. It is my opinion that everybody is most likely a law-breaker without knowing it. Therefore, it makes sense to take care with the data you spread.
Information is the newest hot commodity. Even Sony has pushed a new EULA agreement which states they can do ANYTHING they wish with your data with no recourse to the end user. That includes all voice communications whilst in party chat, all messages sent and all purchasing data. It's the same with Microsoft who has previously admitted that the Kinnect camera records pretty much everything when "incative" with third parties being able to access data within a private setting. Same with Amazon's Alexa, they've had issues with privacy breaches as it's come to light that Alexa has transmitted private conversations and has sent them to databanks for "analytical" purposes. It's quite scary to think how much data is being harvested by unsuspecting users non-govermental agenices. Personally I don't want ANY of my data passed onto third party or misused by a platform holder in any way. Edward Snowden broug to light the massive NSA databank called PRISM containing pretty much all internet communication sent/recieved within the USA by its citizens.
I don't know why there's such a concerted movement by governmental agencies private corporations to indiscriminately collate all this data. I don't brea the law and I don't do anything interesting enough to warrant the collection and storage of my personal data, and this is true for 99% of the population are just trying to live their lives.
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having
coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
I live in the UK where coverage is considered "very good" and I have never come across a subway or underground station with any kind of connection.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Bob Roberts to Gamgee on Wed Oct 21 2020 12:58 pm
Typically the poorer the country the MORE smartphones you will see, because it's the only option people have. They don't
have computers, or home internet. It's how they stay connected to services, and stay entertained.
I don't know if you read 2600 magazine, but there's a column called "The Telecom Informer" written by a telco tech. He's
traveled the world on assignments and written about the state of telco around the world.
In many places that were farther behind the curve than we are in the USA, they skipped the copper infrastructure period and
went straight to wireless. Especially in a rural country, it makes a lot of sense.
I'm slightly jealous reading some of the older columns about how much they could do in China with 2g/3g, SMS and a feature
phone. ecommerce, payments, and pretty much everything else in a phone with a week-long (or longer!) battery life.
--- GINGER1 wrote ---
At 9:44 AM on 21 Oct 20, the doctor said to Ginger1:
It's not socialist, but it's all too often a hell hole. Churchill said "Britain is the best country in the world to be rich in." I'm not rich, so maybe that's the problem.
"z" is pronounced "zed"
Could be. I'm too addicted to the NHS to return to Arizona... I'm just not looking forward to six months of leaden skys and rain. It's grim up north. (But cheap...)
As far as dystopian societies go, I don't think "Demolition Man" is the worst! Up until Simon Phoenix arrived, everyone seem
fairly happy and there certainly wasn't any violence other than from those freedom loving sewer dwellers.
I think the real point of Demolition Man is that the "perfect society" only pretended to be perfect, while hiding its problems
under the rugs, and that it was as rotten in the core as any other society.
Again, that is frequently necessary when one speaks in sweeping
generalities often. Not trying to offend you, but you CLEARLY do
that a lot. A LOT.
Wow, second time today that I'm agreeing with you. That's
excellent. I also do not see any connectivity when down in a
subway system in a big city. Not sure where Bob lives, but am
starting to think it's in a fantasy world.
Good. Very glad to hear that, too. An important point here is
that it's not just the elderly that would have trouble with things
such as described above. There are MANY middle-age people and
even some "youngsters" that have challenges with mobile and other technology. I'd be willing to be that 80+ percent of smartphone
users don't know that you can pre-download Google maps onto a
phone. Maybe 90%. Anyway...
I'm pretty sure about 15-20% of the country is going to cry "voter
fraud" no matter who wins.
--
This is nothing new. Data collection has been going on since the civil war.
The only way you can get away from it is just don't communicate with anyone. Stay off your phone, laptop, tablet whatever and nobody can listen to you. Oh.. Don't forget, nothing in the mail either.
The first Internet generation (aka Unix Greybeards) built the tech from scratch, then refined it into the modern network we have now.
The latest generation doesn't need to build the infrastructure, that was already done for them. They're building the apps that can leverage it. They're mastering how to market the tools using the infrastructure. They' using those Apps to generate not just vast fortunes but massive followings online and off.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to HusTler on Tue Oct 20 2020 10:51 pm
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more cool if
you: a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting,
paid attentio to where you went in the store so you remember it next
time (perhaps taking precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep
someone in their job?
You mean like a Home Depot dating app? ;-)
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I thought part of being non-binary was that there should not be two
pronouns. So, I get "xe", but why are there two, "Xer/Xe"?
Also, is the 'x' pronounced as a zed?
"z" is pronounced "zed"
"z" is pronounced "zed"
Cheap Chinese video cameras have been doumented to "call home" unexpectantly transferring information and I've read on a few forums some cameras sold though Amazon will send data to them. Some of this activity may be in their end user agreement, and considered tools to teach AI's to detect objects. Ima gine if you ran out of milk, and Alexa asks if you need to pick up milk because a camera saw you empty the carton? Imagine a third party exploiting this tool, looking for items to steal or blackmail you?
This is interesting to hear, we don't have the most massive underground here (105km) with our above-ground commuter rail handling a lot of the distant suburbs... but there is not a single subway here that won't have a full connection, I think only once did I drop to two bars. To be fair, I've only used Telenor and not Telia or alternatives, so I can't say if it is service provider specific.
Ginger1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
If it's a map you need for driving, I guess a cheap dedicated sat nav could be picked up pretty cheaply. Living in a city, it's possible
still for me to get a really good city map in a compact book form which works well.
to ask a couple of members of public for help, one of whom was a very cheery chap who put me in a good mood. I wouldn't have had that if I
was just focused on the phone.
* Q-Blue 2.4 *
Bob Roberts wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It was a distributed antenna system owned by BART, and BART turned it
off. It wasn't the carriers. After BART got a bunch of negative publicity they promised not to do it again, and if fact they didn't
when an even bigger protest came up later.
Bob Roberts wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Yes, its true. I saw it myself in the Philippines. All services in
the home are delivered by the wireless companies.
I just hope that at least we're training some new Unix Greybeards, and that these new generations are
at least interested in leaning the foundations that are still at play today.
Or we may face a future that was explored in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode When the Bough
Breaks (S01E17):
I suppose it's much like Huawei phones transmitting data back to China. That example you made isn't too far from future reality. Amazon are going to have pretty much all their home technology connected to the IoT (internet of things) allowing the hub to order new lightbulbs if one
Interesting that the same is happening here. Verizon petitioned to
abandon some of the the copper infrastructure destroyed bu hurricane
Sandy and replace dialtone over copper with wireless. Not sure what's happened with that.
On 10-21-20 08:08, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I had never even heard of TikTok until several months ago when it was
in the news here for potentially being a security risk.
On 10-21-20 13:18, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
i had an amazon blu phone that was calling back to china. then they did a patch to block it and then ad companies found out a way to exploit it and show ads
Interesting. I guess the UK's infastructure is a little dated. I read that selected underground lines in London were getting upgrades in 2019. I reckon it'll be a number of years before the rest of the nation catches up. Glad your country supports underground connections though!
I guess it has something to do with the Chinese components being hard wired with an exploitable back door. I see the Blu phone is much like the Kindle which can be subsidised by ads and purchased at a discount. I purchased a bog standard Kindle (2016) which has loads of ads; there are banners, the screen saver is an ad, etc... I don't mind too much though but I'd be displeased if it happened on my phone!
The parallels for me personally between alcohol and the internet were real (although of course I'm not claiming it's as harmful). To continue the analogy, making internet addicts have smartphones is like making
and here you are on the internet
The latest generation doesn't need to build the infrastructure, that was already done for them. They're building the apps that can leverage it. They're mastering how to market the tools using the infrastructure. They're using those Apps to generate not just vast fortunes but massive followings both online and off.
It's quite amazing when you think about it. It may leave a sense of
being left behind, but it's more then just "typing practice".
@MSGID: <5F90DDA6.4516.dove-gen@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <5F9094FA.28344.dove-gen@nostromo.synchro.net>
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to Mro on Wed Oct 21 2020 09:53 pm
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing
never heard of him, guess he's not that famous.
@MSGID: <5F9103B3.14458.dove-general@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
@REPLY: <5F90869E.28340.dove-gen@nostromo.synchro.ne
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to Gamgee on Tue Oct 20 2020 10:42 pm
veryDo you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a
in thelimited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are
You should come to New York. Free Government paid smartphones for the elderly and low income. You won't be feeling sorry for them because of phone anyway. ;-)
@MSGID: <5F910442.14459.dove-general@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
@REPLY: <5F90869E.28341.dove-gen@nostromo.synchro.ne
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to HusTler on Tue Oct 20 2020 10:51 pm
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more coolif you:
a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting, paidattentio
to where you went in the store so you remember it next time (perhapstaking
precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep someone in theirjob?
You mean like a Home Depot dating app? ;-)
dude, we probably have friends in real life and so does homedepot dude. homedepot guy wants you to fuck off.
we're there to get stuff to repair our homes, not develop a meaningful relationship with a person in their work place.
fuck off with that shit. who taught you that.
It's quite amazing when you think about it. It may leave a sense of
being left behind, but it's more then just "typing practice".
Could be. I'm too addicted to the NHS to return to Arizona... I'm just
not looking forward to six months of leaden skys and rain. It's grim up north. (But cheap...)
Very interesting, and worrisome. Thanks for sharing.
I agree that there are some (people and corporations) that hope this pandemic does NOT end soon. I hope that old couple didn't sacrifice
next month's grocery bill in order to buy a smartphone.
* Q-Blue 2.4 *
I haven't heard of Q-Blue in years! I'm friends on Facebook with the
author, he was a long-time caller of my BBS.
The transition from pen and paper to the digital society
has occurred so quickly that it has frozen a lot of people out of their normal routines. It's easy for me and the individuals here to
transition, we grew up using technology but to a lot of others it's an alien world to them. Big companies only care about the bottom line and cost-cutting measures equate to promotions to most middle managers.
---
* Synchronet * BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and
PCW!
Interesting. I guess the UK's infastructure is a little dated. I read
that selected underground lines in London were getting upgrades in 2019.
I reckon it'll be a number of years before the rest of the nation
catches up. Glad your country supports underground connections though!
Or we may face a future that was explored in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode When the Bough
Breaks (S01E17):
City of Ember (a good book and decent movie) also explores this quite
well. Love to see another TNG lover on the Echos.
Vk3jed wrote to Tracker1 <=-
On 10-21-20 13:18, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
Actually, those are considered "biological sex".
Gender has a number of variants - male and female, non binary, genderfluid, agender, androgyne, to name a few. There's more, but I'd have to start digging. :)
And while most of us are probably cisgender, meaning that our
biological sex and gender identiy are in sync with each other (e.g. I'm physically male, assigned at birth "male", and identify as male - or in short, a cisgender male), some people have a different gender identity
to that which they were assigned at birth (presumed from their visible
sex characteristics). These people are known as transgender.
There's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
As for intersex (which is actually more about physical sex), that's someone who is both with physical characteristics that are neither
whoole male or female. This could be an absence of one or more sexual characteristics, or a mix of male and female physical characteristics.
On 10-18-20 23:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm not sure how much of this is real. There is biological sex, and
that results in behavioural and physical characteristics. However,
what I'm not sure of, is how we can say someone has a different gender despite having male physical and behavioural characteristics.
I am not a "blokey" man. I'm not into sports or many other things charactertics of men. I probably would find it more comfortable to
talk to women at a BBQ about stuff than sports and cars, but that
doesn't mean I'm less 'male'. There are social stereotypes, and I
think some people think because they don't identify with the social stereotype, their gender is therefore more ambiguous. There is
evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the external culture.
and here you are on the internet
I'm getting these posts via a dial-up board. But I'm still being a hypocrite, because obviously 99% of this message exchange is being routed
But on the plus, I don't have internet home and I don't have a smart phone. That's working for me.
Ah, I forgot to mention - Sweden/Stockholm was where I was referring to. On the West Coast Gothenburg is mostly tram traffic and in between is mostly above ground rail. To be fair, I think the cellular infrastructure here is just very good. I thought you guys had been upgraded a couple years back but now that I think of it, last time I was there I lost signal!
you could get it real cheap and it just had ads on your lockscreen.
i didnt have that one though.
i think after a while both backdoors were closed but it's not the best phone. would be great if i could have rooted it.
Yes, it makes me sad. I was in my local library a couple of years ago, and an elderly lady was having a fairly heated conversation with the librarian, because the council had stopped doing a key service any way but online. They'd told her to go to the library to do it there with the help of the librarian, but she was clearly upset about it. The librarian just said "Well, it's always good to learn new things." Fair point - but a bit insensitive.
There are times when I've found pencil and paper better though. Revision notes - there's evidence that it sticks better. I've only ever been able to get organised with pen and paper - I love a to-do list app or program, but I just end up playing with the software; on paper - suddenly I can start to get work done.
Awesome! I've got an NC100 - I loved it before it broke on me with capacitor issues. Found it had a certain special charm to it. Do you still use original Amstrad machines for anything productive?
By the way - on my BBS I've got an Amstrad area. Hoping to build up a reasonable software collection there for non-internet connected Amstrad machines amongst others (I've had an NC100 call me once before!)
Travelling on the tube today - a lack of connection didn't seem to put people off their phones!
i think after a while both backdoors were closed but it's not the best
phone. would be great if i could have rooted it.
If it's just the lock screen I wouldn't mind too much. The Kindle got a little annoying due to banners appearing everywhere in the main menu but it functions fine otherwise. The discount was probably worth it as it doesn't affect the eBooks or audiobooks.
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female andThere are also people who are gender non confirming where if they looked
intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
On 10-18-20 23:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm not sure how much of this is real. There is biological sex, and that results in behavioural and physical characteristics. However, what I'm not sure of, is how we can say someone has a different gender despite having male physical and behavioural characteristics.
Only the person themselves can say, no one else can.
Travelling on the tube today - a lack of connection didn't seem to put
people off their phones!
So many phone zombies these days. I have a lot of screentime on my phone but I am not that bad. I am never glued to it in a public place or when I am with someone.
But on the plus, I don't have internet home and I don't have a smart phone. That's working for me.
if you say so. you sound crazy.
dont blow anybody up
City of Ember (a good book and decent movie) also explores this quite well.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Oct 22 2020 10:30 pm
i had an amazon blu phone that was calling back to china. then they did patch to block it and then ad companies found out a way to exploit it and show ads
I guess it has something to do with the Chinese components being hard wired with an exploitable back door. I see the Blu phone is much like the Kindle which can be subsidised by ads and purchased at a discount. I purchased a bo standard Kindle (2016) which has loads of ads; there are banners, the screen saver is an ad, etc... I don't mind too much though but I'd be displeased if happened on my phone!
Biological sex is defined by the science of biology whereas gender is a soci construct. That's why there are so many different genders in the world.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-18-20 23:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm not sure how much of this is real. There is biological sex, and
that results in behavioural and physical characteristics. However,
what I'm not sure of, is how we can say someone has a different gender despite having male physical and behavioural characteristics.
Only the person themselves can say, no one else can.
I am not a "blokey" man. I'm not into sports or many other things charactertics of men. I probably would find it more comfortable to
talk to women at a BBQ about stuff than sports and cars, but that
doesn't mean I'm less 'male'. There are social stereotypes, and I
think some people think because they don't identify with the social stereotype, their gender is therefore more ambiguous. There is
evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the external culture.
You've brought up another dimension that I didn't touch on - gender expression or gender roles - Gender expression is how you express your gender, which may or may not conform to stereotypes or traditional
roles. In some ways, I do present as a "typical" male (with a lot of differences) - I do love sport, though more about participating and competition, rather than watching, but I also have a softer, nurturing side that comes out when it's needed, which a lot of men are afraid of expressing.
A lot of gay men identify as male, but express themselves in ways considered by our society as "feminine". That's different to actually identifying as "female", even if the resulting expression is similar is similar.
Not being transgender or non binary myself, I can't fully understand
the experience, but I can listen and I can relate with the closest experiences I do have.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Sun Oct 18 2020 11:58 pm
There is evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the external culture.
Biological sex is defined by the science of biology whereas gender is a social construct. That's why there are so many different genders in the world.
Bob Roberts wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
ATT and Google were pushing big for Fiber to the home. Now they've
both stopped their rollout. I'm lucky enough to have 1 gig fiber, but
I'm afraid if I move I'll never find it again.
Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-
I had never even heard of TikTok until several months ago when it was
in the news here for potentially being a security risk.
I've known about it for a year or two.
Ginger1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
* Q-Blue 2.4 *
I haven't heard of Q-Blue in years! I'm friends on Facebook with the
author, he was a long-time caller of my BBS.
Fantastic! If you ever chat to him again, please let him know his
software is still in use and highly appreciated!
Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-
I guess it has something to do with the Chinese components being hard wired with an exploitable back door. I see the Blu phone is much like
the Kindle which can be subsidised by ads and purchased at a discount.
Ginger1 wrote to Bob Roberts <=-
Oh, totally. I'm talking about the school computing classes where no programming was taught at any point. Where it was just about how to use styles to make your document consistent, how to spell check, how to
enter data into Excel. Where programming was seen as no longer
relevant.
Ginger1 wrote to the doctor <=-
Ha. I used to commute up north for work - and was surprised by how the weather always seemed to brighten up once you reached Peterborough on
the return leg :) Probably this was just a psychological effect -
knowing it was almost the weekend. But, there's better beer up north, great countryside, friendlier people, it's cheaper, less busy.
Ginger1 wrote to Bob Roberts <=-
Watched a great episode tonight - not sure what it was called. About a borg called Hugh who gets the crew all in a twist because of his emotionally sensitive side. It made me want to pick up a couple of
early season DVDs and watch it from the beginning (having only ever
dipped in and out).
On 10-24-20 17:02, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I am the only person that can say I am a horse, and as evidence, I
offer the fact that I spend a lot of time in a barn and I smell as a horse.
The fact they don't allow me in races is an act of discrimination.
On 10-25-20 13:03, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What is considered "masculine" changes over time. You can see period
in history where masculine qualities would be looked on as feminine
now.
However, if you identify with these qualities, it is not your gender expression which is at issue. It is the inability of the culture to incorporate you as the gender you are. A lot of men who are confused about their gender, just end up growing up to be gay.
This modern "theory" started on Tumbler at around 2016, but activists
just making stuff up. I'm gobsmacked that the lexicon made its way around.
On 10-23-20 07:37, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Paraphrasing Scott Galloway (NYU lecturer, entrepreneur, and podcast
host)
"I went down the TikTok rabbit hole this weekend, and their algorithm
was impressive. After a half an hour, TikTok decided I like blonde
girls with big butts and Golden Retrievers. And I didn't know I liked
Golden Retrievers!"
On 10-25-20 13:04, Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
Yes, the fact that this is occuring SPECIFICALLY in places where the rhetoric is highest indicates this. There is a high correlation, which means that for the most part, we are just sowing confusion among
people.
I am the only person that can say I am a horse, and as evidence, I offer the fact that I spend a lot of time in a barn and I smell as a horse.
The fact they don't allow me in races is an act of discrimination.
OK, that's a silly and invalid comparison. 100 years ago, left handed peopl
There is evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is >largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the >external culture.
Oh, totally. I'm talking about the school computing classes where no programming was taught at any point. Where it was just about how to use styles to make your document consistent, how to spell check, how to enter data into Excel. Where programming was seen as no longer
relevant.
So, a typing class. :)
up once they got more subscribers) and my neighbor, who has AT&T
Fiber, was down for 4 days when high winds blew down the cable off
the pole. Took them that long to roll a truck out, I've never been
down that long with cable.
I have a janky home network that mostly works using powerline
adapters. We get 200 mbps down at the modem, 60 at the BBS, and 30-40
at my office space. So, gigabit at the modem would still get me 30-40
mbps unless I crawl under the house to run cat6. :|
And, to watch the new Picard series. Hugh makes an appearance.
It can be annoying. The other day, I was walking outside, and another person walking almost ran into me because they were looking at their phone and not paying attention to what was around them. There was another time when I was driving and stopped in traffic. Traffic had started moving again, but the vehicle in front of me stayed stopped and seemed like they didn't realize the cars in front of them had started moving again. I honked my horn, and they started moving. I suspect they may have been looking at their phone.
Nearly every Android phone has a feature called wifi triangulation, and it cannot be disabled. Google uses built-in GPS, but offers oup the wifi triangulation for use by other vendors apps. I live in the middle of nowhere, and on occasion my wifi logs contain mac addresses to people's devices attempting to connect. My brother has his wifi shut off and so does h is girlfrined, yet I receive connection attempts from their devices when they stop by.
Which world are you referring to? I only know of two in the real world (Natural World).
Yes, the fact that this is occuring SPECIFICALLY in places where the rhetoric is highest indicates this. There is a high correlation, which means that for the most part, we are just sowing confusion among people.
Andeddu wrote to MRO <=-
My phone is basically my main computer system so I always go premium. I spend so much time on the damn thing that I am willing to forego extra cash just to get the best possible experience.
Andeddu wrote to Ginger1 <=-
The internet was described as a "disruptive" technology in the 90's due
to the probability it would completely alter the fundamentals of our system. I do genuinely feel bad for the people in their mid-60s and 70s who never really took to technology as they're now forced to adapt to
the kind of system they actively avoided 20-30 years ago.
There are times when I've found pencil and paper better though. Revision notes - there's evidence that it sticks better. I've only ever been able to get organised with pen and paper - I love a to-do list app or program, but I just end up playing with the software; on paper - suddenly I can start to get work done.
I was like that back in my university days too. I couldn't really focus
on a computer due to the bright lights and ability to procrastinate on forums and YouTube, etc... almost everything I do at work and at home
is on a computer so I guess the pen and paper aspect of my life is no longer.
Awesome! I've got an NC100 - I loved it before it broke on me with capacitor issues. Found it had a certain special charm to it. Do you still use original Amstrad machines for anything productive?
By the way - on my BBS I've got an Amstrad area. Hoping to build up a reasonable software collection there for non-internet connected Amstrad machines amongst others (I've had an NC100 call me once before!)
That's awesome. I love the NC100. It has an RS232 serial port so it'll
run a WiFi-232 modem. Imagine trying to BBS on that thing, lol. I hope you're able to recap and ressurect it someday. I've never owned an Amstrad, my dad used to have a 386 when I was a kid in the early 90's
but that's my only experience with them. I am using an '84 Macintosh to type this message. It's my BBS machine and it's used exclusively for
that purpose. The reason I am on the Amstrad BBS is because I purchased
a WiFi-232 modem to get this thing online from a company called
Simulant UK. They are based in York and run their own BBS... it was the first BBS I "dialled" into so I have been using it ever since. I hope
to branch out to other vintage computers mid-2021 though.
---
Synchronet BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC,
PPC and PCW!
Andeddu wrote to Ginger1 <=-
So many phone zombies these days. I have a lot of screentime on my
phone but I am not that bad. I am never glued to it in a public place
or when I am with someone.
MRO wrote to Andeddu <=-
yeah and that version they figured out how to root right away so you
dont need to see ads. i miss rooting my phone but i never ran a distro that wasnt broken in some way.
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
It can be annoying. The other day, I was walking outside, and another person walking almost ran into me because they were looking at their
phone and not paying attention to what was around the
Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I am not a "blokey" man. I'm not into sports or many other things charactertics of men.
In the natural world there are 2 sexes which are determined by the number of and Y chromosomes you have.
Gender is a term used to a establish a range of identities that do not necessarily correspond to the individual's biological sex.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Wed Oct 21 2020 09:37 pm
"z" is pronounced "zed"
Not in the US.. ;)
I am not a "blokey" man. I'm not into sports or many other things
charactertics of men.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-25-20 13:03, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What is considered "masculine" changes over time. You can see period
in history where masculine qualities would be looked on as feminine
now.
True, societal norms of "masculine" and "feminine" do change with time
and general cultural norms. No argument from me there.
However, if you identify with these qualities, it is not your gender expression which is at issue. It is the inability of the culture to incorporate you as the gender you are. A lot of men who are confused about their gender, just end up growing up to be gay.
Or simply just stick themselves in that convenient "box", because it
was too hard to convince society of their gender, or the ideas
expressed at the time didn't allow them to conceptualise their gender identity. And in some cases, people who thought they were simply gay
(or lesbian) later realise it's not their sexuality, but their gender identity that's different to what they thought.
While, as I said, my gender identity has never been in question, my sexuality has. As I said in the last message I posted, there were
signs of same sex attraction well before puberty (and well before I
knew anything about sexuality of any kind). Obviously in my teenage years, sexuality came through stronger, though I didn't want to see
what should have been obvious in hindsight, until my same sex
attraction became too obvious to deny when I was 22. And relating back
to lack of representation - in the 1980s, all depictions of gay men
were very effeminate, as were the presentations of those who were out
in the real world at the time. And because I couldn't relate to that trait, there was a thought of "I couldn't possibly be gay". Well, I
was sure wrong there. :)
You could say I chose to be straight, and didn't get my choice at the time, because it turned out to be an invalid choice for me. :) So I
have experience with innate traits being different to most, and what I expected or even wanted at the time. Acceptance was the only option
that worked in the end.
This modern "theory" started on Tumbler at around 2016, but activists
just making stuff up. I'm gobsmacked that the lexicon made its way around.
Ahh, the Internet, that infallible repository of knowledge. ;) My interactions with transgender people and understanding of gender goes
back to before Tumblr even existed. No Internet fads here. By 2016, I was pretty much at the forefront of gender inclusion. Turns out the autistic community, which I both worked with at the time and am a part
of, has extremely high gender diversity, several times higher than the general population. Research is still trying to answer the question of why this is so. I could probably chase down information from a presentation on this issue that I saw in 2016 at the Victorian Autism Conference - and I happened to be the next speaker, incidentally. :)
noun
noun 1. either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 24 2020 05:43 pm
Nearly every Android phone has a feature called wifi triangulation, and i cannot be disabled. Google uses built-in GPS, but offers oup the wifi triangulation for use by other vendors apps. I live in the middle of nowhere, and on occasion my wifi logs contain mac addresses to people's devices attempting to connect. My brother has his wifi shut off and so d h is girlfrined, yet I receive connection attempts from their devices whe they stop by.
That's so strange. I hear a lot about processes occurring on smartphones without the user's consent. When I turn off my iPhone's WiFi signal, I expec it to remain off which makes me wonder if Apple are doing the same thing as Google. I don't really use WiFi anyway unless downloading a new patch. WiFi triangulation appears to be very accurate at recording your geographical whereabouts whereas something like cell site analysis where you use cell tow to triangulate your position is much less precise giving only a broad description of where you are located.
I've seen a few linux based phones running mobile distros, and one of the noteworthy features is the ability to turn off wifi with a physical switch. The ability to install apps anonymously and not having your phone listening in on you when it's supposedly not in use sounds good.
I'd entertain the idea of a stylus-capable larger phone and a decent
bluetooth keyboard as a replacement; Google docs for Android has
gotten good, and Microsoft Office has done a good job in making their
online apps and phone apps capable choices.
If I were still going to coffee shops to work, I'd think about it -
just having decent wifi and not having to mess with coffee shop wifi
would pay for itself. :)
Writing something down forces your mind to process information in a
way that commits it to memory more effectively.
I've been using paper systems since 1991 (Franklin planners all
through the 90s, notebooks alongside Microsoft Outlook's tasks,
Getting Things Done with basic capture, and to-so listing with bullet
journalling)
Regardless of how/why I'm doing it, despite the fact that I can
capture more information in Evernote/OneNote/Outlook, if I need to
remember it, I write it down.
There's another aspect of writing things down - it affords you the
luxury of forgetting about what you captured instead of trying to
remember it - as long as you review your notes on a regular basis.
Before the pandemic, I went to dinner with my family at a local
restaurant with a lively bar scene. Seeing a group of 20-somethings
at a bar together, pull up stools, then all pull out their phones to
check their social media feeds (while ignoring each other) gives me pause.
At that age, I would have been paying attention to my female friends
in the group, maybe one of them secretly liked me? Maybe one of them
was a good friend who had a cute friend I'd like? Maybe some girl
would see me talking to a cute girl and decide she wanted to talk to
me?
Dating was much simpler back then, I suppose. I certainly wouldn't
have spent social time looking at my phone :)
Aside: If I were young and on a date, and my date pulled out her
phone to check her socials, I don't know what I'd do. I see that all
the time these days.
In the natural world there are 2 sexes which are determined by the number of and Y chromosomes you have.
Gender is a term used to a establish a range of identities that do not necessarily correspond to the individual's biological sex.
From Google:
gender/
noun
noun 1. either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones.
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
have spent social time looking at my phone :)
Aside: If I were young and on a date, and my date pulled out her
phone to check her socials, I don't know what I'd do. I see that all
the time these days.
That kinda thing is a fairly common occurance in my life too, especially people in traffic sitting on their phones and not paying attention to anything around them including the change in traffic signal. My screen time is between 3-4 hours per day according to my iPhone. That's around 1-1.5 hours of messaging people, an hour of browsing and an hour or two of YouTube. My phone is my main machine though so it's probably average usage in this day and age. I also spend around an hour BBSing on my vintage Mac most days.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: HusTler to All on Sat Oct 24 2020 08:39 pm
Which world are you referring to? I only know of two in the real world
(Natural World).
In the natural world there are 2 sexes which are determined by the number of X and Y chromosomes you have.
Gender is a term used to a establish a range of identities that do not necessarily correspond to the individual's biological sex.
@MSGID: <5F945837.20788.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk> @REPLY:
That's awesome. I love the NC100. It has an RS232 serial port so
it'll run a WiFi-232 modem. Imagine trying to BBS on that thing,
lol. I hope you're able to recap and ressurect it someday. I've
never owned an Amstrad, my dad used to have a 386 when I was a kid
in the early 90's but that's my only experience with them. I am
using an '84 Macintosh to type this message. It's my BBS machine
and it's used exclusively for that purpose. The reason I am on the
Amstrad BBS is because I purchased a WiFi-232 modem to get this
thing online from a company called Simulant UK. They are based in
York and run their own BBS... it was the first BBS I "dialled"
into so I have been using it ever since. I hope to branch out to
other vintage computers mid-2021 though.
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
and tried my hand at online dating. It's easier to get no strings attached and such on these devices as you're pretty much basing your choices on mutual attraction without knowing if you'll have a good connection with
internet. Around a decade or more back when I was with my ex there was still a massive taboo re online dating as most people refused to touch it with a barge pole as it was a sign of desperation. Times have changed though and it's surprising what you can find on a dating site, pretty much everyone is using sites such as Tinder now.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Andeddu on Sun Oct 25 2020 08:41 am
have spent social time looking at my phone :)
Aside: If I were young and on a date, and my date pulled out her
phone to check her socials, I don't know what I'd do. I see that all the time these days.
i think on a date it's bad to do it, but with friends it's okay.
Bob Roberts wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
My house has a little bit of Cat 5 which doesn't get me everywhere I
want to go, but there is Coax to every room from a central point. So
I'm using MOCA v2.5 adaptors (the ones that do gigabit). Riding Coax
from the router to my desktop using MOCA results in about 936 mbit
speed tests to/from the internet, the MOCA adaptor adding around 5 ms
of latency, so not much. MOCA v2.5 adaptors are around $170 per pair
and a lot easier then trying to fish ethernet thru the walls.
DaiTengu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Oct 26 2020 12:48 pm
I've seen a few linux based phones running mobile distros, and one of t noteworthy features is the ability to turn off wifi with a physical switch. The ability to install apps anonymously and not having your pho listening in on you when it's supposedly not in use sounds good.
Does that physical switch disconnect wifi physically inside the phone, or do
Nightfox
On 10-25-20 11:07, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
This is specially problematic is you claim recognizion as $thing. For example, if you declare yourself a M5 Self-propulsed cannon and demand
the right to carry rounds loaded with high explosives around.
So, when your goal is to declare yourself a woman and claim the rights which come from being a woman, you are going to have a hard time if you don't have the traits that identify you as a woman.
You may as well claim horse rights because you have some traits in
common with horses.
I don't think the left-handed comparison comes ever close to the
subject since left handed people are not making a claim about their own identity which is immediately demonstrable false. If anything, it comes closer to gay rights, which is a completely different thing by miles.
On 10-26-20 20:08, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The recent 'surge' is most definately activist related, by people with
no medical or psychological training, who pulled this politics out of their arse.
Don't get me wrong, I understand there are real issues here, but there
are many, many BAD FAITH players who are using this issue for their own sociological gain. And its not like you can really oppose them,
On 10-25-20 19:26, HusTler wrote to Andeddu <=-
@VIA: VERT/HAVENS
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to HusTler on Sun Oct 25 2020 04:35 pm
In the natural world there are 2 sexes which are determined by the number of and Y chromosomes you have.
Gender is a term used to a establish a range of identities that do not necessarily correspond to the individual's biological sex.
From Google:
gender/
noun
noun 1. either of the two sexes (male and female), especially
when considered with reference to social and cultural differences
rather than biological ones.
My house has a little bit of Cat 5 which doesn't get me everywhere I
want to go, but there is Coax to every room from a central point. So
I'm using MOCA v2.5 adaptors (the ones that do gigabit). Riding
MOCA sounds interesting, but if you're running cable internet,
everything I've read makes it sound like Comcast won't let other
devices run on MOCA on their cable, in order to connect their
auxiliary DVR boxes. My cable is all new, would be a perfect
environment for it.
But that brings me to the second question:
Do you know anyone with lived experience? And have they ever shared their experien
with you? Again, I'm guessing "no". But in my case, I do know quite a lot of peop
who have dealt with gender identity issues.
Ahh, the straw man argument. I've seen no solid evidence of this, beyond the bleat
of cisgender straight white men.
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
Obviously not a live game, haha. Both Wenger and Walcott left Arsenal a LOOONG time ago.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
Fing about Arsenal is...
MOCA sounds interesting, but if you're running cable internet,
everything I've read makes it sound like Comcast won't let other
devices run on MOCA on their cable, in order to connect their
auxiliary DVR boxes. My cable is all new, would be a perfect
environment for it.
I've seen a few linux based phones running mobile distros, and one of the noteworthy features is the ability to turn off wifi with a physical switch. The ability to install apps anonymously and not having your phone listening in on you when it's supposedly not in use sounds good.
i see people driving down the highway when everyone is doing 80mph and they are doing 30 and i get by them to see what the fuck this idiot looks like and their face is down and looking at a phone.
Ah, that makes sense - made the assumption it was your board.
Interesting re the '84 Macintosh! Does it get any other uses beyond BBSing?
It has been easy for a long time, and I don't think it has anything to do with mobile devices. Craigslist had a "no strings attached" section for a long time, were you could post an ad or browse ads for people looking for that. You could browse that on a PC or anything with a web browser. Craigslist removed that a couple years ago, but I suppose there are alternatives.
they are doing 30 and i get by them to see what the fuck this idiot
looks like and their face is down and looking at a phone.
The fine here for getting caught doing that by the police is around 400 USD and 6 penalty points on your driver's license (12 equates to a ban).
@MSGID: <5F9509B0.42397.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
Fantastic! If you ever chat to him again, please let him know
his software is still in use and highly appreciated!
Did you register it? :)
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
@MSGID: <5F9509B0.42400.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
I live on the California coast, 5 minutes or so from the beach. I
work over the "hill" (a 1800 foot summit) in Silicon Valley, and
when I'm going back home, I'll change out of my shoes and put on
sandals to get me into the proper frame of mind.
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
@MSGID: <5F9509B0.42401.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <smb_getmsgidx Ginger1 wrote to Bob Roberts <=-
Watched a great episode tonight - not sure what it was
called. About a borg called Hugh who gets the crew all in a
twist because of his emotionally sensitive side. It made me
want to pick up a couple of early season DVDs and watch it
from the beginning (having only ever dipped in and out).
And, to watch the new Picard series. Hugh makes an appearance.
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
@MSGID: <5F961BA4.42420.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <smb_getmsgidx Andeddu wrote to Ginger1 <=-
Writing something down forces your mind to process information in
a way that commits it to memory more effectively.
I've been using paper systems since 1991 (Franklin planners all
through the 90s, notebooks alongside Microsoft Outlook's tasks,
Getting Things Done with basic capture, and to-so listing with
bullet journalling)
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
@MSGID: <5F961BA4.42421.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <smb_getmsgidx Andeddu wrote to Ginger1 <=-
Before the pandemic, I went to dinner with my family at a local
restaurant with a lively bar scene. Seeing a group of
20-somethings at a bar together, pull up stools, then all pull
out their phones to check their social media feeds (while
ignoring each other) gives me pause.
At that age, I would have been paying attention to my female
friends in the group, maybe one of them secretly liked me? Maybe
one of them was a good friend who had a cute friend I'd like?
Maybe some girl would see me talking to a cute girl and decide
she wanted to talk to me?
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
@MSGID: <5F96FB52.20848.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk> @REPLY:
Hahaha, absolutely. When I was that age it was the pre-smartphone
era and we all had Nokia brick phones. There was a hell of a lot
more going on and the purpose of the night was to get fired into
any of the attractive lassie's who were game. Those were the days!
Dating is quite simple with all this technology still. I broke up
with my long-term ex a few years ago and tried my hand at online
dating. It's easier to get no strings attached and such on these
devices as you're pretty much basing your choices on mutual
attraction without knowing if you'll have a good connection with
the person. There's a huge pool of people you can contact too as
you're not confined to your local bar/club so the choices are
extensive. I ended up becoming involved in some good relationships
with girls I met from the internet. Around a decade or more back
when I was with my ex there was still a massive taboo re online
dating as most people refused to touch it with a barge pole as it
was a sign of desperation. Times have changed though and it's
surprising what you can find on a dating site, pretty much
everyone is using sites such as Tinder now.
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
I was with a girl for a long time so I never had the chance to dabble on any of the precursors to the newer dating sites. I didn't begin using these apps until the modern era so it was all new to me.
I'm pretty sure about 15-20% of the country is going to cry "voter
fraud" no matter who wins.
I hear a lot of states sent mail-in ballots to ALL registered residents. This can easily be manipulated as only half the ballots are going t be used legitimately as the voter turnout is normally around 50%. In the UK you have to
opt-in to have a ballot sent to you in the first instance. This method is much
less open to manipulation.
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and
intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
Actually, those are considered "biological sex".
Gender has a number of variants - male and female, non binary, genderfluid, agender, androgyne, to name a few. There's more, but I'd have to start digging. :)
And while most of us are probably cisgender, meaning that our biological sex and gender identiy are in sync with each other (e.g. I'm physically male, assigned at birth "male", and identify as male - or in short, a cisgender male), some people have a different gender identity to that which they were assigned at birth (presumed from their visible sex characteristics). These people are known as transgender.
There's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
As for intersex (which is actually more about physical sex), that's someone who
is both with physical characteristics that are neither whoole male or female. This could be an absence of one or more sexual characteristics, or a mix of male and female physical characteristics.
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and
intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
There are also people who are gender non confirming where if they looked
more womanish and they are born male, they might get hassled by law enforcement as an example. That is why in California they have the X
gender marker for stuff like that.
I am the only person that can say I am a horse, and as evidence, I offer the fact that I spend a lot of time in a barn and I smell as a horse.
The fact they don't allow me in races is an act of discrimination.
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like
women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new genders.
This is similar to the behaviour I see in lecture theatres now. I sit at the back, and occasionally glance at the hundreds of screens of the young 20-somethings in front of me. Instead of listening to the lecturer, the majority are watching live streaming basketball, playing games, online shopping, updating Facebook, working on side projects. It's incredible and shocking. Especially as they're paying significant money to be there, and th is a highly regarded major where they will go on to have significant responsiblities.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Oct 26 2020 12:48 pm
I've seen a few linux based phones running mobile distros, and one of the noteworthy features is the ability to turn off wifi with a physical switc The ability to install apps anonymously and not having your phone listeni in on you when it's supposedly not in use sounds good.
Yes, I see why some people would care about their privacy to such an extent that they'd install a Linux distro on their phones. I am too much in love wi the Apple ecosystem so I have no choice but to remain with them whether or n they're trading my GPS data. I've never used Linux even on a PC so it's not big draw for me. I guess a lot of people are interested in a more open syste though, but I don't mind being stuck in Apple's gilded cage.
On 10-27-20 11:06, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yes, I have friends and customers that declare themselves trasgender,
and I am member of a political organization which includes trasgender rights in their portfolio.
But there is a difference between respecting or tolerating people and sharing their point of view.
On 10-27-20 11:11, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-he
@VIA: VERT/PALANT
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Dennisk on Tue Oct 27 2020 07:50 pm
Ahh, the straw man argument. I've seen no solid evidence of this, beyond
bleat
of cisgender straight white men.
Trasgenders are a target of Identitary Politics tactics and that is
known.
As I said elsewhere, I've been part of this world and transgender
rights orgs are heavily bent into purchasing votes and funding for
certain political parties.
You can take for granted that trasgender movements would not be gaining half the momentum they are getting if they weren't in league with big political actors in a symbiotic relation ship.
On 10-27-20 17:42, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Gender has a number of variants - male and female, non binary, genderfluid, agender, androgyne, to name a few. There's more, but I'd have to start digging. :)
Try naming them all... do you *REALLY* expect people to remember them
all, when they just keep making up new ones?
Again, what genders are there "exactly" when you are going to require (like in Canada), compelled speach, all definitions should be defined
as part of the class.
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like
women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new genders.
There's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
I think it's mostly bullshit to avoid actually treating deep
psychological disorders for what they are.
On 10-27-20 19:39, Nightfox wrote to Tracker1 <=-
I think there's more to it than that. A lesbian might identify as a
woman who likes women, but there are some people who believe their born/physical sex is not what they feel they are. Someone might be
born physically female, but they may feel like they're really male, and vice-versa.
Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-wh
On 10/23/2020 12:05 AM, Vk3jed wrote:
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and
intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
Actually, those are considered "biological sex".
Gender has a number of variants - male and female, non binary, genderfluid, agender, androgyne, to name a few. There's more, but I'd have to start digging. :)
Try naming them all... do you *REALLY* expect people to remember them
all, when they just keep making up new ones?
Again, what genders are there "exactly" when you are going to require (like in Canada), compelled speach, all definitions should be defined
as part of the class.
And while most of us are probably cisgender, meaning that our biological sex and gender identiy are in sync with each other (e.g. I'm physically male, assigned at birth "male", and identify as male - or in short, a cisgender male), some people have a different gender identity to that which they were assigned at birth (presumed from their visible sex characteristics). These people are known as transgender.
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like
women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new genders.
There's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
I think it's mostly bullshit to avoid actually treating deep
psychological disorders for what they are.
As for intersex (which is actually more about physical sex), that's someone
ofemale.
is both with physical characteristics that are neither whoole male or
This could be an absence of one or more sexual characteristics, or a mix of male and female physical characteristics.
I know what it is.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-26-20 20:08, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The recent 'surge' is most definately activist related, by people with
no medical or psychological training, who pulled this politics out of their arse.
Again, evidence?
Don't get me wrong, I understand there are real issues here, but there
are many, many BAD FAITH players who are using this issue for their own sociological gain. And its not like you can really oppose them,
Ahh, the straw man argument. I've seen no solid evidence of this,
beyond the bleating of cisgender straight white men.
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
Obviously not a live game, haha. Both Wenger and Walcott left Arsenal a LOOONG time ago.
It was an "IT Crowd" reference. :)
It's a positive thing I suppose that drinking is less with young people than it was in previous generations. They don't have any desire or even need to go to a bar, because they can stay in their bedrooms and get all of the entertainment and romance they need through their 2x3 inch screens.
I remember as a teenager reading in the news pages of Select magazine (a long since defunct indie music magazine) that the first marriage had taken place between two people that had met online. I remember standing there in the newsagent, thinking that sounded very far fetched and unlikely :) I think I must
be getting old...
Back around the early 2000s, they weren't "apps", they were just web sites. Ones such as match.com and eHarmony.com are a couple of the ones that have been around the longest. There also used to be Yahoo Personals a long time ago. And craigslist.com was another web site that had a personals section that I don't think has had an official app.
There are others too, such as plentyoffish.com and eCupid.com - I'm not sure if either of those have apps. I know of their web sites though.
Most states have (though the dems in congress tried to change it) a signature matching requirement. There's a relatively high
false-negative rate, which usually means a manual review to see if the signature matches one on record (usually voting, regitration and dmv history).
It's not nearly as bad as you might think... but there have been a few
fishy things in some states/counties etc.
It's more than knowing where you are and encoding location tags in pictures and other forms of media. Microphones and cameras can be disabled by sliding DIP switches, so the phone won't take pictures or listen in on you when you
on it's own. I've seen YT videos on De-Googled Android phones in actual use, and it is possible to replace most of your apps with one that don't collect telemetry. Social media sites and apps have to be avoided as well as any Google services to completely use your phone as just a phone without constant telemetry being run. There are tools that allow you to install Android apps with a dummy account, so the apps store doesn't spy on what apps you prefer.
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like
women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new genders.
I think there's more to it than that. A lesbian might identify as a woman who likes women, but there are some people who believe their born/physical sex is not what they feel they are. Someone might be born physically female, but they may feel like they're really male, and vice-versa.
What was Wenger thinking sending Walcott on that early?
Obviously not a live game, haha. Both Wenger and Walcott left
Arsenal a LOOONG time ago.
It was an "IT Crowd" reference. :)
Ahh :). The comment did make a little sense as Arsenal had lost 1-0 to Leicester the previous evening and a lot of people were flipping their lids as a result.
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like
women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new genders.
Totally different thing. Those are sexual orientations - meaning who you're attracted to, not what gender you identify as. These are also independent of each other.
There's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
I think it's mostly bullshit to avoid actually treating deep
psychological disorders for what they are.
Hmm, where have we heard this before? History repeats, like a fractal pattern
- same, but different. Homosexuality was once considered a psychiatric disorder. That definition was struck off in 1973 by the APA.
Any of course, the public believed it back then. And mind you, some countries
still put various beliefs ahead of science on that issue too.
It's not nearly as bad as you might think... but there have been a few
fishy things in some states/counties etc.
Voter fraud has been a big concern for a long time. George W Bush was embroiled
in all that back when he was elected in 2000. The fairest way to exercise your
democratic right to vote is to turn up in person with your ID to the polling booth on the day. If you can't be arsed to do that, you don't deserve to have your say. I remember my parents making provision to vote on the day and overcoming massive inconvenience because they wanted their voices heard. People
fought and died for the right to vote, so the least we can do is to get up off
our holes and vote in person.
their voices heard. People fought and died for the right to vote, so the least we can do is to get up off our holes and vote in person.
I think there's more to it than that. A lesbian might identify as a
woman who likes women, but there are some people who believe their
born/physical sex is not what they feel they are. Someone might be
born physically female, but they may feel like they're really male,
and vice-versa.
And if they believ they are 65, when they were born in 2005? Or they believe they are a puppy?
I identify as a 65yo black lesbian woman, can I go apply for Social Security now?
It's mental illness. That's not to say you treat people like crap, but
to pretend it's a real thing when these people, in general, need help does more harm than good.
in Canada gender preference was added to their human right laws, which means if you use the wrong gender pronoun forsomeone (again, name them all), then you can go to prison.
If I identify as older than I am, that doesn't mean I get to go apply for Social Security.
And where do you stand on putting a 3yo on puberty blockers?
On 10/28/2020 6:29 AM, Andeddu wrote:
I'm not saying it doesn't exist... mail in voting isn't materially worse
for the most part in terms of issues.
That said, do military personnel deployed overseas no longer get to vote then?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Vk3jed on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:42 pm
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new genders.
I think there's more to it than that. A lesbian might identify as a woman w likes women, but there are some people who believe their born/physical sex i not what they feel they are. Someone might be born physically female, but t may feel like they're really male, and vice-versa.
Nightfox
On 10-27-20 11:06, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yes, I have friends and customers that declare themselves trasgender, and I am member of a political organization which includes trasgender rights in their portfolio.
Hmm, that sounds kinda familiar - the old "But I have gay friends" defence.
But there is a difference between respecting or tolerating people and sharing their point of view.
It's one thing to tolerate or even respect someone's point of view. But I'm talking about _understanding_ it. Have you taken the time to do that?
<irrelevant horse (shit) snipped> ;P
... Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch.
On 10-27-20 11:11, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/PALANT
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Dennisk on Tue Oct 27 2020 07:50 pm
Ahh, the straw man argument. I've seen no solid evidence of this, beyondhe
bleat
of cisgender straight white men.
Trasgenders are a target of Identitary Politics tactics and that is known.
I'm not talking about politics here, another red herring.
As I said elsewhere, I've been part of this world and transgender rights orgs are heavily bent into purchasing votes and funding for certain political parties.
Again, I'm not looking at what political perversions of a cause are happenin
You can take for granted that trasgender movements would not be gaining half the momentum they are getting if they weren't in league with big political actors in a symbiotic relation ship.
I have a feeling you've been drinking the Kool Aid of Fox News, the Murdoch press, etc. This sounds like their transphobic rhetoric. I wouldn't even u a Murdoch rag to wipe my arse, I don't know what bigoted or strange politica ideas I might catch. ;P
It certainly sounds like their transphobic political crap.
Mind you, the political mouthpiece outlets are hard to avoid here too, but I still engage in critical thinking - something people seem to have forgotten to do nowadays.
... Ancient custom has the force of law.
Hmm, where have we heard this before? History repeats, like a fractal patte - same, but different. Homosexuality was once considered a psychiatric disorder. That definition was struck off in 1973 by the APA.
Any of course, the public believed it back then. And mind you, some countri still put various beliefs ahead of science on that issue too.
As a US Citizen in Sweden, a Vet of OIF, and a voter - I disagree. Everyone needs to vote, I can get along with - how they do it, within the legal confines of their state of record, is up to them. Fuck anyone who tries to stop that.
horse.
The fact they don't allow me in races is an act of discrimination.
I identify as a 65yo black lesbian, my personal pronouns are "I am
yours" and "My lord and master".
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Vk3jed on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:42 pm
What's wrong with gay/lesbian? I mean, if you dress male and like
women, used to be you'd be a "butch" lesbian. No need for new
genders.
I think there's more to it than that. A lesbian might identify as a woman who likes women, but there are some people who believe their born/physical sex is not what they feel they are. Someone might be born physically female, but they may feel like they're really male, and vice-versa.
"Sex" is the biological aspect. "Gender" is a cultural aspect. It hasn't bee changed just because people use them (falsely) interchangeably. This is wher your argument is fallacious, "identifying as a horse" is identifying as a separate physical animal with a completely separate genetic structure. Identifying as an old man is identifying as a genetically aged individual wi weakened telomeres and a physical presence on the earth longer than you have had. Having a gender identity that doesn't conform to your biological sex ha basis in science and it doesn't mean you grow a penis.
Nightfox wrote to hollowone <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: hollowone to Nightfox on Tue Sep 29 2020 09:42 pm
Is a "MIDI tower" some kind of music system?
Maybe this is some local term we used back in the time, poorly translated back to the language.
what I refer to midi tower is a tower system for PC that is not super high but still vertical system (not horizontal that you could put your monitor on top f)
They are still sold for modern desktop PCs under the same name in my country by the way:
https://www.komputronik.pl/search-filter/2701/obudowy-midi-tower
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for musical instruments.
Nightfox
I remember the phrase "MIDI Tower" as well, I think it was between the full tower and mini tower?
I'm not saying it doesn't exist... mail in voting isn't materially worse
for the most part in terms of issues. And, I agree, in-person voting
with verified ID is the most secure option.
That said, do military personnel deployed overseas no longer get to vote then?
As a US Citizen in Sweden, a Vet of OIF, and a voter - I disagree. Everyone needs to vote, I can get along with - how they do it, within the legal confines of their state of record, is up to them. Fuck anyone who tries to stop that.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Tue Oct 27 2020 11:05 pm
It's more than knowing where you are and encoding location tags in pictur and other forms of media. Microphones and cameras can be disabled by sliding DIP switches, so the phone won't take pictures or listen in on y when you
on it's own. I've seen YT videos on De-Googled Android phones in actual use, and it is possible to replace most of your apps with one that don't collect telemetry. Social media sites and apps have to be avoided as wel as any Google services to completely use your phone as just a phone witho constant telemetry being run. There are tools that allow you to install Android apps with a dummy account, so the apps store doesn't spy on what apps you prefer.
I guess I reconcile all this by saing that the big tech firms aren't actuall spying on me as an individual, they're harvesting my data to create better algorithms for future firmware updates. We'll have CCTV soon that can identi you even with a face covering on and follow you through the area you're in a transmit your movements to a databank to be stored into perpetuity. Privacy all but dead now. I have resisted purchasing a listening post such as Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant or Apple HomePod because I am aware they record conversations and harvest my behavioral data (not that it matters because, a you pointed out, my phone does all that anyway). Soon these devices are goin to be built into the walls of your future smart home so fighting it will be futile.
What made you expatriate?
The idea of voter fraud is damaging. There needs to be a fair and secure system that DOES NOT result in votes coming from people who didn't cast a vote, dead people, people impersonating others, double voters and expats who didn't vote. There have been scandals such as 53,000 dead people and 182,000 non-U.S. citizens registered to vote in Florida back in the 2012 elections, and other states fare no better.
I am not against opting-in to recieve a mail-in ballot paper however some states send ballot papers straight to all citizens who are eligible.
Digital Man wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Wed Sep 30 2020 02:00 am
Nightfox wrote to hollowone <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: hollowone to Nightfox on Tue Sep 29 2020 09:42 pm
Is a "MIDI tower" some kind of music system?
Maybe this is some local term we used back in the time, poorly translated back to the language.
what I refer to midi tower is a tower system for PC that is not super high but still vertical system (not horizontal that you could put your monitor on top f)
They are still sold for modern desktop PCs under the same name in my country by the way:
https://www.komputronik.pl/search-filter/2701/obudowy-midi-tower
I see. In English I'd say that would be "mini tower". MIDI is something entirely different - MIDI is a technology/protocol for musical instruments.
Nightfox
I remember the phrase "MIDI Tower" as well, I think it was between the full tower and mini tower?
That's "Mid-tower", not "MIDI Tower". :-)
--
digital man
Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Wed Oct 28 2020 07:11 pm
On 10-27-20 11:11, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/PALANT
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Dennisk on Tue Oct 27 2020 07:50 pm
Ahh, the straw man argument. I've seen no solid evidence of this, beyondhe
bleat
of cisgender straight white men.
Trasgenders are a target of Identitary Politics tactics and that is known.
I'm not talking about politics here, another red herring.
As I said elsewhere, I've been part of this world and transgender rights orgs are heavily bent into purchasing votes and funding for certain political parties.
Again, I'm not looking at what political perversions of a cause are happenin
You can take for granted that trasgender movements would not be gaining half the momentum they are getting if they weren't in league with big political actors in a symbiotic relation ship.
I have a feeling you've been drinking the Kool Aid of Fox News, the Murdoch press, etc. This sounds like their transphobic rhetoric. I wouldn't even u a Murdoch rag to wipe my arse, I don't know what bigoted or strange politica ideas I might catch. ;P
It certainly sounds like their transphobic political crap.
Mind you, the political mouthpiece outlets are hard to avoid here too, but I still engage in critical thinking - something people seem to have forgotten to do nowadays.
... Ancient custom has the force of law.
You might not haev been talking about political deformation of the behaviour of minorities, but Dennisk bought the subject up and you responded to him, so I assumed we were talking about it.
Fox News does not exist in Spain and for that matter I consume no TV
nor radio nor newspapers. I don't watch Internet videos either and I am
no part of big social networks.
What I know is that I have been involved with groups that share a lot
of traits with trans groups or racial groups, except political
acceptance, and they are not politically aggressive at all. It is when somebody fuels them that they break out of their echo chambers and
start forcing their theories on people.
On 10-28-20 22:29, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
There was a lot of internet discussion at the time that this happened,
and people noting that fringe sections of the internet had gone off the rails.
This preceded the "60 minutes" specials and mainstream concern about gender transition. I'm not suggesting that there are not legitimate concerns, but the reason that it has become a cause is from this
source, not medical/scientific revelations.
Here is an example from 2013. https://www.reddit.com/r/SJWstories/comments/3mc0eq/i_used_to_be_a_radic al_genderfluid_tumblr_user/
On 10-28-20 09:54, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
And if I identify as a dog or a 65yo black lesbian woman, it doesn't
make it real.
patternThere's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
I think it's mostly bullshit to avoid actually treating deep
psychological disorders for what they are.
Hmm, where have we heard this before? History repeats, like a fractal
- same, but different. Homosexuality was once considered a psychiatric disorder. That definition was struck off in 1973 by the APA.countries
Any of course, the public believed it back then. And mind you, some
still put various beliefs ahead of science on that issue too.
As to the Canada and hundreds of identified genders (accidentally
removed from quoting), in Canada gender preference was added to their human right laws, which means if you use the wrong gender pronoun for someone (again, name them all), then you can go to prison.
And where do you stand on putting a 3yo on puberty blockers? I mean,
I've seen 3yo that identify as dogs, as monkeys, as any number of things... do you really think we should dramatically change/inhibit children that young because they identify as the opposite gender to
their sex organs? There are people out there legitimately making this argument.
On 10-28-20 16:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
You ask if I have trans friends as if not having them was a sin.
Then I say I do have them and you use that against me as if it was a
sin.
I am more invested in repressed minorities than you think so I can guarantee you that it is not an understandment issue.
On 10-28-20 17:00, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
You might not haev been talking about political deformation of the behaviour of minorities, but Dennisk bought the subject up and you responded to him, so I assumed we were talking about it.
Fox News does not exist in Spain and for that matter I consume no TV
nor radio nor newspapers. I don't watch Internet videos either and I am
no part of big social networks.
What I know is that I have been involved with groups that share a lot
of traits with trans groups or racial groups, except political
acceptance, and they are not politically aggressive at all. It is when somebody fuels them that they break out of their echo chambers and
start forcing their theories on people.
On 10-28-20 17:10, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What is considered "normal" is rather arbitrary. I don't think it is science as much as it is politics.
In my mind, homosexuality is like having a paraphilia for bananas. I
don't care if eating bananas arouses you and I don't care if it is a sickness, a paraphilia, or a normal behaviour, because it does not make
a difference in practice.
However, I find it pretentious to imply that if you don't consider bananaphilia a normal healthy thing, you are putting belief over
science, because there is not as much consensus as there is acceptance.
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I thought about using MOCA adapters instead of powerline ethernet,
since I've heard moca is more reliable.
Ginger1 wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
At a computer or phone, I've never been able to get that same sense of efficiency - and I've bought/subscribed to My Life Organized, Todoist, Toodledo, Remember the Milk, GQueues, numerous phone apps, and probably scores of others I can no longer remember.
... Do It! 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong.
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
---
Synchronet Nostromo
Ginger1 wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
This is similar to the behaviour I see in lecture theatres now. I sit
at the back, and occasionally glance at the hundreds of screens of the young 20-somethings in front of me. Instead of listening to the
lecturer, the majority are watching live streaming basketball, playing games, online shopping, updating Facebook, working on side projects.
This is so different to when I did my first degree, back in the
early 2000s. Some people were still probably only there in body only,
and paying no attention - but not like now. It's like our brains
have become changed to the point where we can no longer engage with one topic for more than a minute before we need the next hit of a new
status update, forum or news posting.
...
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluation copy.
---
Synchronet Nostromo
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
There are others too, such as plentyoffish.com and eCupid.com - I'm not sure if either of those have apps. I know of their web sites though.
Tracker1 wrote to Andeddu <=-
It's not nearly as bad as you might think... but there have been a few fishy things in some states/counties etc.
Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-
I identify as a 65yo black lesbian, my personal pronouns are "I am
yours" and "My lord and master".
Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-
I identify as a 65yo black lesbian, my personal pronouns are "I am
yours" and "My lord and master".
HusTler wrote to Ginger1 <=-
So how are they passing the classes?
Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
being run. There are tools that allow you to install Android apps with
a dummy account, so the apps store doesn't spy on what apps you prefer.
On 10-28-20 16:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
You ask if I have trans friends as if not having them was a sin.
Then I say I do have them and you use that against me as if it was a sin.
I am more invested in repressed minorities than you think so I can guarantee you that it is not an understandment issue.
I'm not seeing the evidence in your reasoning. Prove me wrong.
... Know why divorce is so expensive? It's WORTH it!
Curious what sort of groups. And what sort of "forcing on other peoople" do you mean? Some of what people call "forcing" is simply wanting their voice heard. We had that here during the same sex marriage debate a few years ago made worse by our Federal givernment's insistance on a public vote (which wa resounding "yes").
From an outsider's perspective, it could look like that, and there's nothing wrong with an attraction to eating bananas either, even though it's not my thing. But as for homosexuality, I do have the advantage of inside perspective, and there are differences. Like many people can figure out wha
So for all the rethoric surrounding the phenomena, I think the core issue he is declaring oneself to be something you are not, in a material sense of existence, not. So comparisons to declaring yourself a horse, a stone, a bla lesbian or an Apache helicopter are totally in order.
Andeddu wrote to Tracker1 <=-
The fairest way
to exercise your democratic right to vote is to turn up in person with your ID to the polling booth on the day. If you can't be arsed to do
that, you don't deserve to have your say.
I joke about the progression of mail over 10+ years of having a spam folder.
First it was Match.com.
Then came all of the competitors in the space, OKcupid.com and all the others, assuming I was dating.
Then, came eHarmony.com, assuming I'm ready to settle down and find my soulmate.
Then, ashleymadison.com, I'm obviously looking for a side thing.
Then came OurTime and SilverSingles.com, where selective older
single come looking for a good time.
Now? Golfmates.com. Fuck him, he's obviously not going to hook up,
maybe he plays golf?
And we all know how accurate the Internet is. ;)
First it was Match.com.
Then came all of the competitors in the space, OKcupid.com and all the others, assuming I was dating.
Then, came eHarmony.com, assuming I'm ready to settle down and find my soulmate.
Then, ashleymadison.com, I'm obviously looking for a side thing.
Then came OurTime and SilverSingles.com, where selective older
single come looking for a good time.
Now? Golfmates.com. Fuck him, he's obviously not going to hook up,
maybe he plays golf?
I used to manage onboarding at a large company, and for the recent
college grads, we'd do a big production - handing out brand new
MacBooks, swag, a breakfast buffet for 250 people, then orientation -
and 20 minutes into the orientation about the company that just
agreed to pay you a ton of money fresh out of college, people were checking their Facebook feeds.
Hamburger Mary's was a restaurant in South of Market in San Francisco known for a colorful clientele - every shade of gender identity and sexuality that 1980s San Francisco had to offer.
They had single-occupancy bathrooms marked Men and Women when I first started going there. Later, they marked them Butch and Femme.
Finally, each bathroom just read "WHOEVER". I'm pretty sure someone corrected it with Sharpie to read WHOMEVER.
George Takei tweeted that he thought if people were worried about
voter suppression, they should register Republican and then vote
democratic. You miss voting in your primary, but it has some merit.
I remember the phrase "MIDI Tower" as well, I think it was between the full tower and mini tower?
That's "Mid-tower", not "MIDI Tower". :-)
Midi-Tower was used in Australia, especially in the 90's
Do a search for the phrase "Midi Tower" and you'll still get hits, mostly Australian.
Just because they can acquire behavioral data, that doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it. In the original story of Minority Report, they used pre-cognitive telepaths to predict crimes, however I think with enough data points that could be done through statistical analysis. The secret is social engineering people into providing as much private information as possible.
(2) 182,000 non-U.S. citizens registered: The initial list of 180,000 names was whittled to 2,625, according to the Florida Department of State. The state then checked a federal database and stated it found 207 noncitizens on the rolls (not necessarily voting but on the rolls). That list was sent to county election supervisors to check and it also turned out to contain errors. An Aug. 1, 2012, state elections document showed only 85 noncitizens were ultimately removed from the rolls out of a total of about 12 million voters at that time.
That means your claim of 182,000 was actually .... 85 people. This fallacious rhetoric is still being pandered by the leader of the free world and his family. It is absurd, dangerous, and (in my opinion) treasonous to undermine the validity of the election by spreading lies before the election. It is exactly the behaviour you find in banana republic elections.
I am not against opting-in to recieve a mail-in ballot paper however some states send ballot papers straight to all citizens who are eligible.
I point to the above evidence where only 82 people were noncitizens /AND/ they were already removed. The point here is that the safeguards are in place and working. I would be willing to wager that there is larger impact of people doing nefarious shit like... bullying people at the polls, challenging valid voters and disenfranchising or demoralizing, gerrymandering to abuse the system, etc. In some states it is allowed for political activists to collect ballots from neighbourhoods and return them, those are weaker points in the line in my opinion.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 2020 07:05 am
George Takei tweeted that he thought if people were worried about
voter suppression, they should register Republican and then vote
democratic. You miss voting in your primary, but it has some merit.
Ahh, excellent advice from a political genius.
Do you have to declare a party affiliation to register to vote in some states? That seems odd. In IL you only request a specific primary ballot at the time of voting during a primary election. No affiliation declaration required otherwise.
the full tower and mini tower?
That's "Mid-tower", not "MIDI Tower". :-)
Midi-Tower was used in Australia, especially in the 90's
Do a search for the phrase "Midi Tower" and you'll still get hits,
mostly Australian.
Interesting. Well here in the states, those were call "mid tower" or "mid-sized tower". At least, I think we're talking about the same things. :-) --
I've got a pile of old netbooks from schools. They were intended for kids programs, but only a small number were needed. But I've found a number
of
it's some sort of slang for them over there, i guess. i did a search for midi tower and came up with mid towers.
Finally, each bathroom just read "WHOEVER". I'm pretty sure someone corrected it with Sharpie to read WHOMEVER.
it's not my thing. But as for homosexuality, I do have the advantage of inside perspective, and there are differences. Like many people can
Don't presume you are the only person with insider knowledge.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-28-20 22:29, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
There was a lot of internet discussion at the time that this happened,
and people noting that fringe sections of the internet had gone off the rails.
And we all know how accurate the Internet is. ;)
This preceded the "60 minutes" specials and mainstream concern about gender transition. I'm not suggesting that there are not legitimate concerns, but the reason that it has become a cause is from this
source, not medical/scientific revelations.
I consider 60 minutes to be a bit sensationalist. Actually, I have
little faith in commercial TV's standard of journalism.
Here is an example from 2013. https://www.reddit.com/r/SJWstories/comments/3mc0eq/i_used_to_be_a_radic al_genderfluid_tumblr_user/
Unfortunately, following links here is rather cumberson (it's not like email). So I'm not going to be able to go through the links. Been out
all day. Another time, maybe.
Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Thu Oct 29 2020 08:38 pm
Curious what sort of groups. And what sort of "forcing on other peoople" do you mean? Some of what people call "forcing" is simply wanting their voice heard. We had that here during the same sex marriage debate a few years ago made worse by our Federal givernment's insistance on a public vote (which wa resounding "yes").
Groups so fucked up and with reputations so bad I don't want my name asociated with them.
I will use groups with better reputations (even if I have no experience with them) as an example of groups that work very similarly:
Mysoginistic groups.
A group of people with a shared background joins. They have lots of
weird theories that belong to their subculture. With time they develop gatekeepers that get to decide who is a genuine member of the group and who is a sold-out. The members out of the group are either the Enemy or people who is ignorant or non-understanding of the true form of
reality. Most often than not, they only want to meet regularly in their echo chambers and circle jerk because they have no other ambitions.
Then somebody pops up and offers them political representation in
exchange for political services, and a minority of mostly political neutral people turns into a mafia. If you don't vote for the political party you are not a true member. If you don't confoirm with the
standard established by the gatekeeper, you are not a true member.
MRO wrote to Digital Man <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Digital Man to Dennisk on Thu Oct 29 2020 06:42 pm
the full tower and mini tower?
That's "Mid-tower", not "MIDI Tower". :-)
Midi-Tower was used in Australia, especially in the 90's
Do a search for the phrase "Midi Tower" and you'll still get hits,
mostly Australian.
Interesting. Well here in the states, those were call "mid tower" or "mid-sized tower". At least, I think we're talking about the same things. :-) --
it's some sort of slang for them over there, i guess. i did a search
for midi tower and came up with mid towers. ---
MRO wrote to BlaZ <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: BlaZ to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Oct 29 2020 08:09 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 2020 07:05 am
George Takei tweeted that he thought if people were worried about
voter suppression, they should register Republican and then vote
democratic. You miss voting in your primary, but it has some merit.
Ahh, excellent advice from a political genius.
Do you have to declare a party affiliation to register to vote in some states? That seems odd. In IL you only request a specific primary ballot at the time of voting during a primary election. No affiliation declaration required otherwise.
i never knew this, but:
"Do You Have to Vote for the Party You're Registered With?
Your state may give you the opportunity to declare your political party affiliation on your voter registration card.
You do not have to vote for the party you're registered with, in a federal, state, or local general election. But in a presidential
primary or caucus, depending on your state's rules, you may have to
vote for the political party you've registered with. "
i vote for the person i want after checking them out. i dont really
vote straight anything. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
i vote for the person i want after checking them out. i dont really
vote straight anything. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
... Spaceballs: The Tagline
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
Do you have to declare a party affiliation to register to vote in some state That seems odd. In IL you only request a specific primary ballot at the tim of voting during a primary election. No affiliation declaration required otherwise.
Do you have to declare a party affiliation to register to vote in some states? That seems odd. In IL you only request a specific primary ballot at the time of voting during a primary election. No affiliation declaration required otherwise.
Your state may give you the opportunity to declare your political party affiliation on your voter registration card.
BlaZ wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Do you have to declare a party affiliation to register to vote in some states? That seems odd. In IL you only request a specific primary
ballot at the time of voting during a primary election. No affiliation declaration required otherwise.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: cj to MRO on Fri Oct 30 2020 06:11 am
i vote for the person i want after checking them out. i dont really
vote straight anything. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
... Spaceballs: The Tagline
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
blah blah blah...my last message.
Som'bitch...and here I thought I had MultiMail setup correctly. Apparently the .rep packet didn't have my reply, just a copy of your original message!
My State allows me to "Write In" my choice. I could vote for myself if I want. ;-)
On 10-29-20 08:05, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
This is the issue I have with these movements and the reason why I have stopped my involvement. Geez, many of these groups are so intolerant
that you can't even have alternative orientations unless they are
aproved by the gatekeepers of the group, which is why bisexuals are so often left in the cold.
On 10-29-20 08:13, Arelor wrote to Vk3je
I will use groups with better reputations (even if I have no experience with them) as an example of groups that work very similarly:
Mysoginistic groups.
On 10-29-20 08:16, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/PALANT
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Thu Oct 29 2020 08:49 pm
From an outsider's perspective, it could look like that, and there's nothing wrong with an attraction to eating bananas either, even though it's not my thing. But as for homosexuality, I do have the advantage of inside perspective, and there are differences. Like many people can figure out wha
Don't presume you are the only person with insider knowledge.
On 10-29-20 08:19, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
And we all know how accurate the Internet is. ;)
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's someone's face next to it." - Abraham Lincoln
On 10-29-20 21:42, Mightydodge wrote to Vk3jed <=-
You might want to check out cloud ready. It can turn most old hardware
in to pretty beefy chromebooks. neverware.com
On 10-30-20 20:22, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yeah, but it was on the Internet where this new lexicon was invented (they/them, xe/xer). So naturally that is where you are going to find discussion of it.
Here is an example from 2013. https://www.reddit.com/r/SJWstories/comments/3mc0eq/i_used_to_be_a_radic al_genderfluid_tumblr_user/
Unfortunately, following links here is rather cumberson (it's not like email). So I'm not going to be able to go through the links. Been out
all day. Another time, maybe.
They will be enlightening when you get to them.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-30-20 20:22, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yeah, but it was on the Internet where this new lexicon was invented (they/them, xe/xer). So naturally that is where you are going to find discussion of it.
Well it dates back to at least the mid 1990s. I've seen Xe, etc, used with my own eyes in late 1994. I have no evidence beyond that, without attempting to Google. :) As I don't have a functioning TARDIS, I can't show you first hand, and the mailing list in question was (1) private
and (2) unlikely to be archived.
Here is an example from 2013.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SJWstories/comments/3mc0eq/i_used_to_be_a_radic al_genderfluid_tumblr_user/
Unfortunately, following links here is rather cumberson (it's not like email). So I'm not going to be able to go through the links. Been out
all day. Another time, maybe.
They will be enlightening when you get to them.
OK, sounds worth a read. :)
It is an Australianism, it sure sounds like one.
We also have a glass size called a "Middy". Go to a pub in NSW and ask for Middy of beer.
so whey did you even post at all
---
I don't know where it originated but desktop manufacturers in the UK have been calling mid-sized towers midi-towers since the 90s. When I search on Google for midi-tower, I still obtain hits from UK retailers.
Vk3jed wrote to Arelor <=-
You do make a good point about bisexuals, and that still has a long way
to go, though there's slow improvement. But biphobia, especially when
it comes to men is definitely an issue, and they cop it from both gay
and straight men.
@MSGID: <5F98DC9C.14665.dove-general@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
@REPLY: <5F987F49.28550.dove-gen@nostromo.synchro.ne
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Mon Oct 26 2020 09:50 pm
Especially as they're paying significant money to be there,
and th
is a highly regarded major where they will go on to have significant responsiblities.
So how are they passing the classes?
It's a positive thing I suppose that drinking is less with youngpeople than
it was in previous generations. They don't have any desire or evenneed to
go to a bar, because they can stay in their bedrooms and get all ofthe
entertainment and romance they need through their 2x3 inch screens.
The convenience is there but the authenticity is missing. I miss gong to
a nightclub with my mates and seeing a girl I am attracted to, engaging
in the chase and pulling her on the dance floor without exchanging a
single word.
What's worked for me is using a paper journal as a high-level task
tracker, then using Outlook to capture detail, using GTD categories
(@Projects, @Work, @Home, Waiting for, Someday/Maybe, Agendas)
Allenco has a good PDF on optimizing Outlook for GTD.
With the two, I have a paper list of what I'm working on today, and
don't need to search for details.
What is important about the Outlook side is to make the subjects
action-specific, and always have the next action documented.
... Do It! 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong.
NesQWK 1.06 < (c) 1995 NoLimits Software. Unregistered evaluationcopy.
---
Synchronet Nostromo
... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Synchronet * realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
@MSGID: <5F9AC009.42590.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <smb_getmsgidx
Ginger1 wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
This is similar to the behaviour I see in lecture theatres now. I sit
at the back, and occasionally glance at the hundreds of screens of the young 20-somethings in front of me. Instead of listening to the
lecturer, the majority are watching live streaming basketball, playing games, online shopping, updating Facebook, working on side projects.
I used to manage onboarding at a large company, and for the recent
college grads, we'd do a big production - handing out brand new
MacBooks, swag, a breakfast buffet for 250 people, then orientation -
and 20 minutes into the orientation about the company that just agreed
to pay you a ton of money fresh out of college, people were checking
their Facebook feeds.
What always makes me nervous is that it seems the most productive people in the world (people like Elon Musk, but previous business titans, CEOs of top companies etc) don't seem to get hung up in time management. Musk said he's never read a time management book for example. That said, he's also
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other business attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
The current trend throws Title IX on it's head and beyond that reallyI have a middle ground where team sports could have 1 or 2 mixed
leads to some f-d up legislation, such as in Canada.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Ginger1 on Sat Oct 31 2020 08:55 pm
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand
he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other
business attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well.. It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well..
It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other business attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively
well.. It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my
area.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand
he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other
business attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well.. It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except
for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
it makes no sense that he has over 90 billion dollars.
he only got like six figs from sales of his other shit.
Ginger1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
What's working better for me now is a paper list of tasks, worked on
using Mark Forster's Final Version method. This has much less overhead than GTD and really helps overcome procrastination by taking into
account "psychological readiness" to do the task. I do this alongside Stephen Covey's weekly planning - to bring in some higher level
direction.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except for
an ed bagley jr type of guy.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: BlaZ to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Oct 29 2020 08:09 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 2020 07:05 am
George Takei tweeted that he thought if people were worried about
voter suppression, they should register Republican and then vote
democratic. You miss voting in your primary, but it has some merit.
Ahh, excellent advice from a political genius.
Do you have to declare a party affiliation to register to vote in some states? That seems odd. In IL you only request a specific primary ballo at the time of voting during a primary election. No affiliation declaration required otherwise.
i never knew this, but:
"Do You Have to Vote for the Party You're Registered With?
Your state may give you the opportunity to declare your political party affi
You do not have to vote for the party you're registered with, in a federal, But in a presidential primary or caucus, depending on your state's rules, yo "
i vote for the person i want after checking them out. i dont really vote str
for midi tower and came up with mid towers. ---
It is an Australianism, it sure sounds like one.
We also have a glass size called a "Middy". Go to a pub in NSW and ask for Middy of beer.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand
he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other
business attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well.. It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except
for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
Have you ever ridden in a Tesla? One of their models will blow
away any engine powered car in the 0-60 race. Like, not even
close.
it makes no sense that he has over 90 billion dollars.
he only got like six figs from sales of his other shit.
Ummm...... ever heard of SpaceX ? Watched the news lately?
... Can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street?
I only just recently heard that term. MIDI is something entirely separate though - MIDI is a protocol & standard for electronic music instruments.
Nightfox
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 31 2020 11:11 pm
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well..
It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except
for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It seems some people do want electric cars. I probably wouldn't mind having an electric car myself, except I don't have a good place to charge one (I recently moved into an apartment), and on rare occasion I'd like to go on a road trip. Most of my commutes are to work & back and around town though.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except
for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
Around here, they sure do.
I only just recently heard that term. MIDI is something entirely
separate though - MIDI is a protocol & standard for electronic music
instruments.
Yes, I remember MIDI sound files from the 90s too. Do you not pick up any hits when typing midi-tower into Google?
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It
where would i charge one? cant do it at work. cant do it at home really. very inconvenient.
I'm pretty sure you can plug one into a standard electrical outlet (at least, perhaps with an adapter). So I think you should be able to charge one at home fairly easily.. Most houses should have an electrical outlet in the garage, and perhaps on the side of the house in front as well. Some workplaces and some stores in my area have a few charging stations in the parking lot for electric cars. But if you're just commuting to work & back most days, you might not need to charge it at work. The range of a Tesla is something like 250 miles per charge, I think? That should get you to work & back (and a little extra) and let you charge it at home. So I don't think it would be terribly inconvenient.
aint nobody got time for that
---
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other business attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
On 10-31-20 20:53, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Interesting. I've never heard of it until about 2015 or so. I found
this reference from 2000
https://web.archive.org/web/20160304082825/http://archive.autistics.org/ library/AE2000-ToM.html
It would be interesting to see how it was popularised.
On 10-31-20 07:46, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/REALITY
Vk3jed wrote to Arelor <=-
You do make a good point about bisexuals, and that still has a long way
to go, though there's slow improvement. But biphobia, especially when
it comes to men is definitely an issue, and they cop it from both gay
and straight men.
You'd think Lonely Island's "3-way (The Golden Rule)" would have alleviated some of that.
On 11-01-20 20:40, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-
per charge, I think? That should get you to work & back (and a little extra) and let you charge it at home. So I don't think it would be terribly inconvenient.
If you live in an apartment though, it would be difficult to charge
one..
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 31 2020 11:11 pm
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well..
It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It seems some people do want electric cars. I probably wouldn't mind having an electric car myself, except I don't have a good place to charge one (I recently moved into an apartment), and on rare occasion I'd like to go on a road trip. Most of my commutes are to work & back and around town though.
yeah, it sounds like a pain in the ass. i dont want to wait at a charging station. i dont want to be plugging it in all the time outside my house.
If you live in an apartment though, it would be difficult to charge
one..
If you had underground/basement parking, it might be possible for charging facilities to be setup, but in the street it would be a lot more work -
If you ever had to get out of town in a hurry or drive through flooded streets or roads on fire, an electric vehicle would be a terrible choice. Really, in any kind of emergency situation, you'd want a traditional internal combustion engine. But sure, for commutes, EVs seem well and good. --
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Oct 31 2020 09:39 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 31 2020 11:11 pm
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well..
It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except
for an ed bagley jr type of guy.
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It seems some people do want electric cars. I probably wouldn't mind having an electric car myself, except I don't have a good place to charge one (I recently moved into an apartment), and on rare occasion I'd like to go a road trip. Most of my commutes are to work & back and around town though.
where would i charge one? cant do it at work. cant do it at home really. ver
"TeslaBattery charge time
10h at 220V
2020 Tesla Model Y
96.7h at 110V, 12h at 220V, 1.33h at 440V
2020 Tesla Model S
89h at 110V, 12h at 220V, 1.33h at 440V
2020 Tesla Model X
8.5 to 10h at 220V
2020 Tesla Model 3
People also ask
How long does it take to charge a Tesla at a public charging station?
Other Tesla Supercharging stations charge with up to 150 kW of power distrib es to 100% on the original 85 kWh Model S.Nov 11, 2019
"
aint nobody got time for that
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Nov 01 2020 09:42 pm
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It
where would i charge one? cant do it at work. cant do it at home really very inconvenient.
I'm pretty sure you can plug one into a standard electrical outlet (at least ide of the house in front as well. Some workplaces and some stores in my ar of a Tesla is something like 250 miles per charge, I think? That should get
If you live in an apartment though, it would be difficult to charge one..
Nightfox
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Nov 01 2020 08:40 pm
I'm pretty sure you can plug one into a standard electrical outlet (at least, perhaps with an adapter). So I think you should be able to charg one at home fairly easily.. Most houses should have an electrical outle in the garage, and perhaps on the side of the house in front as well. S workplaces and some stores in my area have a few charging stations in t parking lot for electric cars. But if you're just commuting to work & b most days, you might not need to charge it at work. The range of a Tesl is something like 250 miles per charge, I think? That should get you to work & back (and a little extra) and let you charge it at home. So I do think it would be terribly inconvenient.
yeah, it sounds like a pain in the ass. i dont want to wait at a charging st
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Oct 31 2020 09:39 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 31 2020 11:11 pm
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well..
It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except for ed bagley jr type of guy.
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It seems some people do want electric cars. I probably wouldn't mind having an electric car myself, except I don't have a good place to charge one (I recently moved into an apartment), and on rare occasion I'd like to go on road trip. Most of my commutes are to work & back and around town though
If you ever had to get out of town in a hurry or drive through flooded stree r commutes, EVs seem well and good.
--
digital man
Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #37:
HTTP = Hypertext Transfer Protocol
Norco, CA WX: 65.4øF, 43.0% humidity, 0 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
I haven't tried searching for it. I don't doubt the term is used for PC towers - I've just never heard it until recently, so the only MIDI I know is the music standard.
Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 10-31-20 07:46, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/REALITY
Vk3jed wrote to Arelor <=-
You do make a good point about bisexuals, and that still has a long way
to go, though there's slow improvement. But biphobia, especially when
it comes to men is definitely an issue, and they cop it from both gay
and straight men.
You'd think Lonely Island's "3-way (The Golden Rule)" would have alleviated some of that.
Sadly, there is a fair bit of bigotry in the LGBTIQA+ community -
racism, biphobia, transphobia and unchecked privilege (usually from
white gay men) are among the issues that occur. :(
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Ginger1 on Sat Oct 31 2020 08:55 pm
i dont understand how elon musk has all these billions. i understand
he was a founder of a precursor to paypal but all this other business
attempts have been lukewarm.
how's this guy got 91,9 billion?!
Unsure. Is he not responsible for launching a lot of 5G satellites into space? If so, I guess a lot of carriers are renting his bandwidth
If you ever had to get out of town in a hurry or drive through flooded streets or roads on fire, an electric vehicle would be a terrible choice. Really, in any kind of emergency situation, you'd want a traditional internal combustion engine. But sure, for commutes, EVs seem well and good. --
digital man
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Nov 02 2020 12:07 am
yeah, it sounds like a pain in the ass. i dont want to wait at a
charging station. i dont want to be plugging it in all the time
outside my house.
Couldn't you find something to do while it's charging? If you charge it at work, for instance, it can charge while you're working. Also, do you have a garage at home? If so, I would imagine you have a power outlet inside your garage? You wouldn't have to leave it outside to charge..
The public charging stations I see are next to rest stops containing
a variety of fast food and sit down food franchises. Hook up the charger, then walk over to a restaurant and have lunch or dinner. After 45 minutes to an hour pass, you should have adequate charge to make it to your destination.
It's way more convenient than trying to track down a compressed natural gas outlet that may or may not be operable to non-station personel.
Go do something else while the car charges. I mentioned this in another link, the fast chargers I've seen are near restaurants and shops. Plug the car in , eat or shop, then your ar should have a decent charge.
If the road is flooded or on fire, driving on it would be a poor choice for any vehicle.
we cant charge our vehicles at work. i dont think my company would like us stealing their electricity.
and if you have a battery issue you are in trouble. that's a huge cost of the vehicle.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Digital Man on Mon Nov 02 2020 01:04 pm
If the road is flooded or on fire, driving on it would be a poor choice for any vehicle.
i drove my kia through a flooded road. i just drove behind a truck's wake.
Unsure. Is he not responsible for launching a lot of 5G satellites into space? If so, I guess a lot of carriers are renting his bandwidth
if he did that, it was recently.
He has deployed many satellites into space via SpaceX (in a network known as Starlink) which will likely be the backbone of 5G as 5G does not have to revolve around cell towers. Sounds like a good way to make money to me.
Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've never seen underground/basement parking at any apartments here..
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles. I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Moondog wrote to MRO <=-
It's way more convenient than trying to track down a compressed
natural gas outlet that may or may not be operable to non-station personel.
I've never seen underground/basement parking at any apartments
here..
The high-rise condos in big cities need to provide parking for their units, lots of them in San Francisco have parking underground.
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles.
I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Look at the number of moving parts in an electric car versus an ICE
car. We'll all be driving electric vehicles once the battery tech (and charging tech) catches up.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Nov 02 2020 07:26 pm
we cant charge our vehicles at work. i dont think my company would
like us stealing their electricity.
It doesn't work like that - Normally you wouldn't have to steal their electricity. Some workplaces (and shopping centers) have installed a limited number of car charging stations in the parking lot where you can charge your car and pay for the electricity.
You seem like you haven't seen any of this stuff where you live.. Does this stuff just not exist there?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Digital Man on Mon Nov 02 2020 07:25 pm
and if you have a battery issue you are in trouble. that's a huge
cost of the vehicle.
Gas-burning cars can have their issues too - though likely due to lack of maintenance. For instance, if you don't change the timing belt at the right time, the timing belt could break, and that would really mess up the engine.
i drove my kia through a flooded road. i just drove behind a truck's
wake.
Well, that is a bit dangerous.
If the engine suck water in you can end up with an hydrolock and wrck the engine.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Nov 02 2020 07:22 pm
Unsure. Is he not responsible for launching a lot of 5G satellites
into space? If so, I guess a lot of carriers are renting his
bandwidth
if he did that, it was recently.
He has deployed many satellites into space via SpaceX (in a network known as Starlink) which will likely be the backbone of 5G as 5G does not have to revolve around cell towers. Sounds like a good way to make money to me.
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles.
I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Look at the number of moving parts in an electric car versus an ICE
car. We'll all be driving electric vehicles once the battery tech (and charging tech) catches up.
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles. I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Look at the number of moving parts in an electric car versus an ICE
car. We'll all be driving electric vehicles once the battery tech (and charging tech) catches up.
... Trust in the you of nowPopping in as an EV owner. I have a 2019 Nissan Leaf I bought around March of that year and I'm very happy with it. I sold my ICE car and it's my only vehicle.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Nov 02 2020 08:13 am
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Nov 02 2020 12:07 am
yeah, it sounds like a pain in the ass. i dont want to wait at a
charging station. i dont want to be plugging it in all the time
outside my house.
Couldn't you find something to do while it's charging? If you charge it work, for instance, it can charge while you're working. Also, do you ha a garage at home? If so, I would imagine you have a power outlet inside your garage? You wouldn't have to leave it outside to charge..
we cant charge our vehicles at work. i dont think my company would like us s
someone tore out all the wiring to the garage so we dont have power to it. i
i wouldnt take a tesla for free.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Nov 02 2020 07:30 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Digital Man on Mon Nov 02 2020 01:04 pm
If the road is flooded or on fire, driving on it would be a poor cho for any vehicle.
i drove my kia through a flooded road. i just drove behind a truck's wak
Well, that is a bit dangerous.
If the engine suck water in you can end up with an hydrolock and wrck the engine.
--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles. I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Look at the number of moving parts in an electric car versus an ICE
car. We'll all be driving electric vehicles once the battery tech (and charging tech) catches up.
... Trust in the you of now
Moondog wrote to MRO <=-
It's way more convenient than trying to track down a compressed natural gas outlet that may or may not be operable to non-station personel.
Around here, Pacific Gas and Electric operated CNG outlets open to
the public.
I wonder about hydrogen fuel cell stations. I see a few Toyota Mirais
driving around here, and noticed another HFC car on the road. Last I
checked, California had something like 14 stations.
... Trust in the you of now
Couldn't you find something to do while it's charging? If you
charge it work, for instance, it can charge while you're working.
Also, do you ha a garage at home? If so, I would imagine you have
a power outlet inside your garage? You wouldn't have to leave it
outside to charge..
we cant charge our vehicles at work. i dont think my company would
like us s
someone tore out all the wiring to the garage so we dont have power to
it. i
i wouldnt take a tesla for free.
Last I checked the EV's come with a home charger
It's not nearly as bad as you might think... but there have been a few
fishy things in some states/counties etc.
What seems to make it ripe for abuse is the lack of remediation. If
you reject a ballot, it sounds like you throw it out - you don't
confirm with the registered voter whether the vote was as intended.
Nor is there a mechanism to let someone know their ballot has been
rejected?
If so, these two conditions make it ripe for abuse by a party
intending to selectively suppress the vote.
George Takei tweeted that he thought if people were worried about
voter suppression, they should register Republican and then vote
democratic. You miss voting in your primary, but it has some merit.
I identify as a 65yo black lesbian, my personal pronouns are "I am
yours" and "My lord and master".
Hamburger Mary's was a restaurant in South of Market in San Francisco
known for a colorful clientele - every shade of gender identity and sexuality that 1980s San Francisco had to offer.
They had single-occupancy bathrooms marked Men and Women when I first started going there. Later, they marked them Butch and Femme.
Finally, each bathroom just read "WHOEVER". I'm pretty sure someone corrected it with Sharpie to read WHOMEVER.
The current trend throws Title IX on it's head and beyond that really
leads to some f-d up legislation, such as in Canada.
I have a middle ground where team sports could have 1 or 2 mixed
players, but individual sports have to be generally compete against
their own demographic.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Nov 03 2020 07:16 am
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles.
I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Look at the number of moving parts in an electric car versus an ICE car. We'll all be driving electric vehicles once the battery tech (and charging tech) catches up.
Yep, I agree. When the technology improves enough, I may well buy an electr
Nightfox
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Nov 02 2020 02:01 am
If you ever had to get out of town in a hurry or drive through flooded streets or roads on fire, an electric vehicle would be a terrible choice. Really, in any kind of emergency situation, you'd want a traditional internal combustion engine. But sure, for commutes, EVs seem well and good. --
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles. I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
On 11-02-20 08:13, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've never seen underground/basement parking at any apartments here..
On 11-03-20 10:27, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The nastiest people I've met, those most hateful and willing to jump to hate, are those who claim they are against hatred. I've met people
from all manner of political backgrounds, far left to far right and everything in between, and those who claim moral righteousness are the WORST. The worst evil always presents itself as a force for good, as being righteous and good. They are even worse than those who admit intolerance. The worst discrimination I've seen, has come from people wanting 'equality'. The worst racist are the 'anti-racists'. And
these people make it in our society because people take them at face value.
The Spanish Inquisition tortured people in the name of 'mercy'. I mentally flag and group or community fighting for 'right' as being dangerous.
On 11-02-20 19:01, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-
Gas-burning cars can have their issues too - though likely due to lack
of maintenance. For instance, if you don't change the timing belt at
the right time, the timing belt could break, and that would really mess
up the engine.
On 11-03-20 08:16, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
I thought 5G had a shorter range, which would require even more cell towers..? Also, using a satellite for a phone call introduces a noticeable delay in the connection..
On 11-03-20 07:16, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-
@VIA: VERT/REALITY
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
Yeah, I think there are still some hurdles with electric vehicles. I probably wouldn't buy one any time soon.
Look at the number of moving parts in an electric car versus an ICE
car. We'll all be driving electric vehicles once the battery tech (and charging tech) catches up.
On 11-03-20 19:39, Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-
I imagine the electric motors and battery are somewhat sealed or water resistant, so they should be fine if not emerged. In a gas powered car your a ir intake is going to be the weakest link
I've never seen underground/basement parking at any apartments
here..
I have in more expensive complexes, but many smaller apartment blocks to have ground level dedicated car parks for residents - each apartment being assigned one space.
Mcossey wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
There's next to no maintainence because an eletric motor is a very
simple thing. Even on some traditional parts like brakes last longer
since you rely on e-braking to restore energy.
For my use, I don't
really ever need to use a public charger. The furthest I need to drive
in a day is like 80 miles, and it does that fine. When I do need a use
a charging station, they are plentiful.
level 2 at best which means hours of charging before you can move on
which is just too long. Though it's a rare problem in my case. I'd
rather fly than take a road trip. But when it does come up that I need drive 150+ miles in a day, I just rent a car.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
cars can have many timing chains. and they are plastic and metal. most people dont change them until they have problems with them.
i've found that the best way to keep a car for a long time is to keep running it. dont store it for months. always drive it a few tims a
week.
Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Back in the early 2000's when gas was inching up to $5,
Vk3jed wrote to Moondog <=-
Or the distributor, if water can get into the HT circuits. In a traditional Kettring ignition system (points/coil/distributor), I've
seen water splashes stop many a car stone dead. :)
I thought 5G had a shorter range, which would require even more cell towers..? Also, using a satellite for a phone call introduces a noticeable delay in the connection..
A timing chain doesn't usually need to be changed the way a timing
belt does. As long as you have it looked at when you do a major
service you're usually going to do OK.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon Nov 02 2020 02:01 am
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Oct 31 2020 09:39 pm
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Oct 31 2020 11:11 pm
Elon Musk owns Tesla, and Tesla seems to be doing relatively well..
It seems like I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area.
is it? i know he owns tesla. nobody wants an electric car except for ed bagley jr type of guy.
I dunno, but I've been seeing more and more Teslas in my area. It seems some people do want electric cars. I probably wouldn't mind having an electric car myself, except I don't have a good place to charge one (I recently moved into an apartment), and on rare occasion I'd like to go on road trip. Most of my commutes are to work & back and around town though
If you ever had to get out of town in a hurry or drive through flooded stree r commutes, EVs seem well and good.
If the road is flooded or on fire, driving on it would be a poor choice for any vehicle.
I've never seen underground/basement parking at any apartments here..
I have in more expensive complexes, but many smaller apartment blocks to h ground level dedicated car parks for residents - each apartment being assi one space.
On 10/31/2020 12:50 AM, MATTHEW MUNSON wrote:
The current trend throws Title IX on it's head and beyond that really
leads to some f-d up legislation, such as in Canada.
I have a middle ground where team sports could have 1 or 2 mixed
players, but individual sports have to be generally compete against
their own demographic.
Okay, so what happens to things like Women's Basketball in that
scenario? Does it just become Basketball where all women are edged out
by men? Or do they get edged out by trans women in the sport?
i've found that the best way to keep a car for a long time is to keep running it. dont store it for months. always drive it a few tims a week.
I always thought it was relatively stupid to have male/female restrooms for the most part anyway. Especially when most of them are single-occupant anyway.
Okay, so what happens to things like Women's Basketball in that
scenario? Does it just become Basketball where all women are edged out
by men? Or do they get edged out by trans women in the sport?
Last I checked the EV's come with a home charger
Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Back in the early 2000's when gas was inching up to $5,
The TV show "Dark Angel" depicted a dystopian, post-EMP world. I
remember cans of coke were $5, and if I'm not mistaken, gas was
$6.75/gallon on the show. We've come close, and passed that with
opportunistic price-gouging.
... Are there sections? Consider transitions
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
cars can have many timing chains. and they are plastic and metal.
most people dont change them until they have problems with them.
A timing chain doesn't usually need to be changed the way a timing
belt does. As long as you have it looked at when you do a major
service you're usually going to do OK.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Wed Nov 04 2020 07:42 am
A timing chain doesn't usually need to be changed the way a timing
belt does. As long as you have it looked at when you do a major
service you're usually going to do OK.
I imagine there would still be fairly major engine damage if a timing chain breaks though? I think the only difference is that a chain lasts longer than a belt. It might just mean having to replace the timing chain
I stopped by a soda shop the other day, and a milkshake cost $5. In the movie Pulp Fiction the $5 milkshake was a joke based on the $30 pizza sold by Wolfgang Puck at one of his restaurants. There was nothing special
Most apartment complexes here do have one assigned parking space per apartment. But in recent years, I've started seeing apartment complexes that will charge extra for an assigned parking space if you want one. I guess it's a useful option if you don't have a car.. I recently moved into an apartment complex, and they couldn't give me an assigned space yet, so I'm on a wait list for that. It seems weird that they apparently don't have enough dedicated parking spaces for all tenants. When I come home, I have to find an available uncovered parking space for my car, and if I get home late, it can be difficult to find one.
Probably about maximizing income for the apartment complex. Since they can charge extra for a dedicated parking space, this allows those that want more than one to pay for that, and others that don't use it won't
go unused, necessarily. It will vary by city a lot, many/most will
There's an apartment complex in Tempe, AZ (ASU area) that requires you
to *not* have a car to park at all, I think they got a special exception... It's a pretty large building.
Cars last longer if stored indoors too, not left outside every day/night.
I always thought it was relatively stupid to have male/female
restrooms for the most part anyway. Especially when most of them are
single-occupant anyway.
it's very very smart. women spend a ton of time in the bathroom and they are disgusting.
cars can have many timing chains. and they are plastic and metal.
most people dont change them until they have problems with them.
A timing chain doesn't usually need to be changed the way a timing
belt does. As long as you have it looked at when you do a major
service you're usually going to do OK.
oh i thought he meant to say timing chain.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 11-03-20 10:27, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The nastiest people I've met, those most hateful and willing to jump to hate, are those who claim they are against hatred. I've met people
from all manner of political backgrounds, far left to far right and everything in between, and those who claim moral righteousness are the WORST. The worst evil always presents itself as a force for good, as being righteous and good. They are even worse than those who admit intolerance. The worst discrimination I've seen, has come from people wanting 'equality'. The worst racist are the 'anti-racists'. And
these people make it in our society because people take them at face value.
Yes, you're not wrong there. While not religious myself, I am reminded
of passages in the Book of Revelations, where the deceit and
deviousness of the Devil is discussed, and I see that in those people
who claim to uphold morals - whether that be via religion or in secular circles. You're describing exactly that.
The Spanish Inquisition tortured people in the name of 'mercy'. I mentally flag and group or community fighting for 'right' as being dangerous.
Another case in point. The Inquisition was an instrument to maintain power through coercion and terror.
I always thought it was relatively stupid to have male/female restrooms
it's very very smart. women spend a ton of time in the bathroom and they are disgusting. ---
in highschool me and my friend played the entire girl's basketball team. they couldnt get one shot off.
On 11-04-20 08:18, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Most apartment complexes here do have one assigned parking space per apartment. But in recent years, I've started seeing apartment complexes that will charge extra for an assigned parking space if you want one.
I guess it's a useful option if you don't have a car.. I recently
moved into an apartment complex, and they couldn't give me an assigned space yet, so I'm on a wait list for that. It seems weird that they apparently don't have enough dedicated parking spaces for all tenants. When I come home, I have to find an available uncovered parking space
for my car, and if I get home late, it can be difficult to find one.
On 11-04-20 07:46, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Like when I was a kid and naively took my 1968 Fiat to the spray wash
place, opened the hood and sprayed away. Had a nice clean engine bay
with an engine that wouldn't start.
On 11-04-20 17:18, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My father-in-law's place has a basement parking spot. You drive down a slope and into the garage in the basement.
It's a real bitch in the winter. One time he was driving into his
garage and the back of his car slid on some ice causing him to drive
into the side of the house. Car was a write off after that.
On 11-04-20 00:31, Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-
My cousin lived in Minneapolis, and their parking meters have
electrical outlets for plugging in engine block heaters in the winter. they should be easy to convert to EV chargers.
On 11-04-20 18:09, Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-
I thought so too. Musk himself says that the satellites are 5G ready
and are "targeting a latency of below 20 milliseconds." I don't
understand enough about 5G to really comment, perhaps the satellites
work in conjunction with cell towers.
On 11-04-20 21:47, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-
I thought the only difference between a timing belt and a timing chain
is that a timing belt is made of a strong elastic material and a timing chain is made of metal. Metal would last longer, but I thought they performed the same function of synchronizing the timing of the various parts of the engine..?
There's an apartment complex in Tempe, AZ (ASU area) that requires you
to *not* have a car to park at all, I think they got a special
exception... It's a pretty large building.
That's weird.. Do they expect their tenants will walk or take public transit everywhere? Especially in Arizona heat during the summer?
It's a real bitch in the winter. One time he was driving into his
garage and the back of his car slid on some ice causing him to drive
into the side of the house. Car was a write off after that.
That's generally not an issue here. :)
assigned space yet, so I'm on a wait list for that. It seems weird
that they apparently don't have enough dedicated parking spaces for
all tenants. When I come home, I have to find an available uncovered
parking space for my car, and if I get home late, it can be difficult
to find one.
Probably about maximizing income for the apartment complex. Since they can charge extra for a dedicated parking space, this allows those that want more than one to pay for that, and others that don't use it won't
go unused, necessarily. It will vary by city a lot, many/most will require at least one dedicated space per apartment plus a percent of overflow spaces. Which may translate to covered/uncovered.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 04 2020 05:18 pm
I always thought it was relatively stupid to have male/female
restrooms for the most part anyway. Especially when most of them
are single-occupant anyway.
it's very very smart. women spend a ton of time in the bathroom and
they are disgusting.
Normally it's women who complain about men being digusting in the bathroom and not cleaning the bathroom enough.. The women I've known tended to be fairly clean in the bathroom.
Me neither. But then, I don't buy new vehicles of any kind. :-)
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Digital Man to MRO on Wed Nov 04 2020 02:30 pm
Cars last longer if stored indoors too, not left outside every day/night.
I recently went through a divorce, but when we had the house, I wanted to use the garage to park the cars in, but my wife wanted to use the garage for storage instead. It may have been a family thing - Her sister also used her garage for storage and parked her cars outside.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Nov 03 2020 11:58 pm
Me neither. But then, I don't buy new vehicles of any kind. :-)
But yours have to be somewhat new, right? Don't you have to pay a fee in CA if your emissions don't meet a certain standard? My cousin in Santa Rosa told me something about that.
And I remember when I visited Los Angeles I was amazed that I saw very few old vehicles. Almost everything on the road was less than 5 years old.
Me neither. But then, I don't buy new vehicles of any kind. :-)
But yours have to be somewhat new, right? Don't you have to pay a fee in CA if your emissions don't meet a certain standard? My cousin in Santa Rosa told me something about that.
And I remember when I visited Los Angeles I was amazed that I saw very few old vehicles. Almost everything on the road was less than 5 years old.
garage for storage instead. It may have been a family thing - Her
sister also used her garage for storage and parked her cars outside.
Me too. I've never had a garage-kept car. <shrug>
--
digital man
Interesting.. They do vehicle emissions testing where I live too, and my current car is 12 years old and it still passes the emissions test. But my car only has about 72,000 miles on it. It's possible to have an older car that passes emissions testing if maintenance is kept up on it though (to a
they used to have a serious emissions test in wisconsin. they'd hook up some shit to your tailpipe and measure stuff.
now you can get the test any place and they jack into your port. if you have something serious it fails but it's pretty much bullshit.
On 11-05-20 21:28, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I am reminded of one of my favourite Charles Bukowski poems, "The
Genius of the Crowd".
there is enough treachery, hatred violence absurdity in the average
human being to supply any given army on any given day
On 11-05-20 14:06, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
That's generally not an issue here. :)
Oh, you and your ice-free climate.. ;)
And I remember when I visited Los Angeles I was amazed that I saw very few >> old vehicles. Almost everything on the road was less than 5 years old.
Wow.. Do you know that for sure? I doubt there would be so many drivers
who could afford such a recent car. Unless perhaps everyone who lives in
Los Angeles has a lot of money (I wouldn't be surprised though, as I
imagine the cost of living there is a bit high). In the past, I've bought used cars that were 10 & 15 years old because that's what I could afford at the time..
Same here. They connect to your OBD2 port and read sensor data - I think cars these days have sensors onboard, and they can read emissions data from your car's sensors and not have to put a hose on your tail pipe.
Did you hear the story several years ago that Volkswagen was caught cheating emissions testing with their diesel cars? Apparently, they made the software in thir diesel cars report lower emissions when connected to emissions testing equipment so that they'd pass emissions tests.
Did you hear the story several years ago that Volkswagen was caught cheatin
IIRC, it was something to do with *how* it ran with either emissions hooked to the sensor data and/or how it ran the first N miles from starting, not that it was reporting fake data, but literally operated differently so it could pass with the tailpipe sensors..
Did you hear the story several years ago that Volkswagen was caught cheating emissions testing with their diesel cars? Apparently, they made the software in thir diesel cars report lower emissions when connected to emissions testing equipment so that they'd pass emissions tests.
over year model changes, most cars tend to keep pretty well since the early-mid 2000's at least. The last major paint issues I noticed a lot
is the white paint on mid-late 90's GM vehicles... really noticeable... also, the shift in body styles from 80's through early 2000's is more notable than since around 2005. In the mid-2000's a lot of cars still
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Tue Nov 03 2020 08:16 am
I thought 5G had a shorter range, which would require even more cell towers..? Also, using a satellite for a phone call introduces a noticeab delay in the connection..
I thought so too. Musk himself says that the satellites are 5G ready and are "targeting a latency of below 20 milliseconds." I don't understand enough ab 5G to really comment, perhaps the satellites work in conjunction with cell towers.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Wed Nov 04 2020 07:42 am
A timing chain doesn't usually need to be changed the way a timing
belt does. As long as you have it looked at when you do a major
service you're usually going to do OK.
I imagine there would still be fairly major engine damage if a timing chain g a timing belt at 80,000 miles or something, I thought.
Nightfox
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to MATTHEW MUNSON on Tue Nov 03 2020 03:44 pm
Okay, so what happens to things like Women's Basketball in that scenario? Does it just become Basketball where all women are edged out by men? Or do they get edged out by trans women in the sport?
in highschool me and my friend played the entire girl's basketball team. they couldnt get one shot off.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 04 2020 04:47 pm
Probably about maximizing income for the apartment complex. Since they can charge extra for a dedicated parking space, this allows those that want more than one to pay for that, and others that don't use it won't go unused, necessarily. It will vary by city a lot, many/most will
I hadn't thought of that, but I thought apartment complexes generally had a
There's an apartment complex in Tempe, AZ (ASU area) that requires you to *not* have a car to park at all, I think they got a special exception... It's a pretty large building.
That's weird.. Do they expect their tenants will walk or take public transi
Nightfox
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Nov 05 2020 11:01 pm
they used to have a serious emissions test in wisconsin. they'd hook up some shit to your tailpipe and measure stuff.
now you can get the test any place and they jack into your port. if you have something serious it fails but it's pretty much bullshit.
Same here. They connect to your OBD2 port and read sensor data - I think ca
Did you hear the story several years ago that Volkswagen was caught cheating ey'd pass emissions tests.
Nightfox
Well, they're obvious LEOs, though 20mS might be optimistic, but 100 is certainly feasible. To get 20mS latency from a satellite, the total path has to be 300,000 * 20 / 1000, or 300x20 km, which is 6000km. That happens to be the maximum propagation delay for a signal travelling from the limit of coverage for a satellite at 800km altitude, to the satellite and back down to a ground station on the endge of coverage - so yes, 20mS propagation delay is feasible. With network overheads, maybe 30-40mS or better is possible.
And I know from first hand that the propagation delay to such a satellite is perceptable as only a bit of "reverb". My software repeater controller has much more delay than a round trip to a LEO! :)
LEOs do have other issues like significant Doppler shive, because of the high relative velocity (up to 7.5 km/S), and a sophisticated network controller/routing system will need to manage data that might need to be switched through different satellites as they come and go from view.
In case you're wondering, I have first hand experience working ham satellites at these altitudes. :)
On 11-06-20 23:12, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Thanks for the explanation. 100ms seems reasonable though if you're
just streaming media and going on websites. It's probably perfect for anything other than online gaming, and even that delay is acceptable
for most genres.
On 11-06-20 16:57, Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
I thought so too. Musk himself says that the satellites are 5G ready and are "targeting a latency of below 20 milliseconds." I don't understand enough ab 5G to really comment, perhaps the satellites work in conjunction with cell towers.
I read latency was closer to 30-40ms, but that's a huge difference when compared to 600ms latency I get with Hughesnet
On 11-06-20 17:02, Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-
A timing belt is only one issue. If owners don't change their oil or perform other scheduled maintenence when suggested, they create more problems. Running an engine hard will also reduce lifespan, and may
result in worn piston rings and cause the engine to leak and burn oil.
For awhile in the late 90's, GM had problems with transmissions in 4wd vehicles, some failing around 75k miles
Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Oops! :D Usually happened to us (Dad and I) when he charged through a creek that was a bit deep in a 4x4 truck - Oops. Invariably had to
come back the next day with a set of jumper leads and a can of water repellant. :D
Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Then again, I recall when Subway sold a footlong sub, drink and a bag
of chips for $5
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
i had one break and it didnt cause any damage. that was a 70's olds 88 though. depends on the car i guess. once that chain hreaks, no workie
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
I recently went through a divorce, but when we had the house, I wanted
to use the garage to park the cars in, but my wife wanted to use the garage for storage instead. It may have been a family thing - Her
sister also used her garage for storage and parked her cars outside.
A timing belt is only one issue. If owners don't change their oil or perform other scheduled maintenence when suggested, they create more problems. Running an engine hard will also reduce lifespan, and may result in worn piston rings and cause the engine to leak and burn oil. For awhile in the late 90's, GM had problems with transmissions in 4wd vehicles, some failing around 75k miles
I have a cousin in Queens, NY who pays for a private parking spot 2 blocks from his house. He only drives the Explorer when travelling out of town, otherwise he takes the subway into NYC to work.
@MSGID: <5FA1DD59.12951.dove-general@roughneckbbs.com>
@REPLY: <5F9E2588.113916.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>
@TZ: fe5c
On 10/31/2020 12:50 AM, MATTHEW MUNSON wrote:
The current trend throws Title IX on it's head and beyond that really
leads to some f-d up legislation, such as in Canada.
I have a middle ground where team sports could have 1 or 2 mixed
players, but individual sports have to be generally compete against
their own demographic.
Okay, so what happens to things like Women's Basketball in that
scenario? Does it just become Basketball where all women are edged out
by men? Or do they get edged out by trans women in the sport?
On 11-06-20 17:02, Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-
A timing belt is only one issue. If owners don't change their oil or perform other scheduled maintenence when suggested, they create more problems. Running an engine hard will also reduce lifespan, and may result in worn piston rings and cause the engine to leak and burn oil. For awhile in the late 90's, GM had problems with transmissions in 4wd vehicles, some failing around 75k miles
Yes, that's the problem with complex machinery - more maintenance to keep it good operating condition. Electric motors are much simpler, with far fewer moving parts. They also are capable of producing good torque down to 0RPM, simplifying mechanical transmission requirements.
... Sow your wild oats on Saturday night, then on Sunday pray for crop failu
I read latency was closer to 30-40ms, but that's a huge difference when compared to 600ms latency I get with Hughesnet
After doing the aritmetic, I'd estimate that the worst case latency is likely to be around 40mS, with occasional jitter to higher that goes higher when the transmission paths are rerouted as satellites come and go from view. But in all, it could be quite a decent service.
And the owners of the satellites would do well to lease bandwidth to other countries and sell their groundstation equipment, so the satellites could make money for them over other countries, since they will be travelling the world, unlike a geostationary bird. :)
over year model changes, most cars tend to keep pretty well since the
early-mid 2000's at least. The last major paint issues I noticed a lot
is the white paint on mid-late 90's GM vehicles... really noticeable...
also, the shift in body styles from 80's through early 2000's is more
notable than since around 2005. In the mid-2000's a lot of cars still
i was wondering about that white paint. the guy that parks next to me at
work has this problem. looks like someone who didnt know how to paint
screwed up the paint job.
they should give all these guys free paint jobs.
I read latency was closer to 30-40ms, but that's a huge difference when compared to 600ms latency I get with Hughesnet
In general sprts have been the leading activity with regards to equal opportunity. Color and nationality don't get you on a team. being the best gets you on the team. Stacking the deck to add "equity" ruins the sport.
I try to imagine things like carrying bags of groceries in when you come home from the store, and I'd imagine you wouldn't want to carry groceries for 2 blocks - especially if you might have so many groceries that you'd have to make a couple trips to get it all from the car. I guess you could temporarily park in front of your place and then go park your car afterward..
There would be a limit of 1-2 trans women or non women in a team sport. Sometimes
boys play on girls lacrosse and volleyball teams. This allows for opportunity AND
competitive balance.
Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-
A timing belt is only one issue. If owners don't change their oil or perform other scheduled maintenence when suggested, they create more problems.
Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-
After doing the aritmetic, I'd estimate that the worst case latency is likely to be around 40mS, with occasional jitter to higher that goes higher when the transmission paths are rerouted as satellites come and
go from view. But in all, it could be quite a decent service.
Cars are pretty trouble-free nowadays, there's no excure not to take
care of them. Lifetime no-maintenance automatic transmissions, spark
plugs that last 60K-100K, flush the cooling at 100K-120K, maybe
change the brake fluid, and change your brake pads before they start scraping the disks. And oil changes. Modern oil has detergents and addatives meant to capture gunk and crap, change it at the
recommended intervals and you're good.
On 11-06-20 07:02, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
One thing I hadn't known was about car automatic transmissions
sometimes having a vent that could suck water into the tranny when
immersed. That would suck.
On 11-07-20 13:43, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
No shortage of torque for sure. I was watching a video on Youtube where
a driver of a Tesla P100D was hustling street racers, and his "stock" motors were putting out the equivalent of 750hp, and the drive system would prevent the wheels from spinning during initial acceleration. As soon as the flag dropped, the car was moving forward.
On 11-07-20 17:16, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Looks like Musk made a good investment in speculating that the world
would end up becoming bathed in the glow of 5G. He's talking about providing cheap 5G to developing nations too, probably subsidised by richer countries.
On 11-07-20 08:21, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I always thought that cobbling together a web cache would help with a
slow/low-bandwidth connection, but not sure you could do that easily
with https. I guess things were easier back then when I was running a
company through a 56k leased line - no SSL, open SMTP relays as a
net.courtesy, and no FLASH. :)
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri Nov 06 2020 05:31 pm
I have a cousin in Queens, NY who pays for a private parking spot 2 blo from his house. He only drives the Explorer when travelling out of town otherwise he takes the subway into NYC to work.
I try to imagine things like carrying bags of groceries in when you come hom
it all from the car. I guess you could temporarily park in front of your p
Nightfox
On 11/6/2020 3:08 PM, Moondog wrote:
In general sprts have been the leading activity with regards to equal opportunity. Color and nationality don't get you on a team. being the b gets you on the team. Stacking the deck to add "equity" ruins the sport.
Largely agreed, I am okay with Male/Female teams though... not sure that trans can really fit into that role though... too many genetic
advantages for trans women, and trans men the opposite. Maybe a trans category if there's enough people to create a team.
--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
Largely agreed, I am okay with Male/Female teams though... not sure that trans can really fit into that role though... too many genetic
advantages for trans women, and trans men the opposite. Maybe a trans category if there's enough people to create a team.
Can a team be cohesive if there are "token" members hired because of requirement other than physical ability? In sports where men excel over women, is a trans female playing on equal grounds with natural born females?
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
recommended to get it changed every 5,000 miles or so (the service
manual for my car suggested it's needed only every 10,000 miles, though that seems like quite a long time).
Nightfox wrote to Moondog <=-
Yep.
Years ago, I bought a used 1996 Geo Prizm (basically a rebadged Toyota Corolla). It was a pretty good car, but it went through oil fast.
Nightfox wrote to Moondog <=-
I try to imagine things like carrying bags of groceries in when you
come home from the store, and I'd imagine you wouldn't want to carry groceries for 2 blocks - especially if you might have so many groceries that you'd have to make a couple trips to get it all from the car. I guess you could temporarily park in front of your place and then go
park your car afterward..
Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
No shortage of torque for sure. I was watching a video on Youtube where
a driver of a Tesla P100D was hustling street racers, and his "stock" motors were putting out the equivalent of 750hp, and the drive system would prevent the wheels from spinning during initial acceleration. As soon as the flag dropped, the car was moving forward.
Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Looks like Musk made a good investment in speculating that the world
would end up becoming bathed in the glow of 5G. He's talking about providing cheap 5G to developing nations too, probably subsidised by richer countries.
Tracker1 wrote to MRO <=-
Agreed... most of these have been re-done or seeing blotchy patches of paint missing at this point... I know it would have pissed me off.
MRO wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-
BIGGOT!
Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
A lot of today's traffic is real time - streaming video (Netflix, etc), audio (Spotify and friends), etc. Caching is do 20th century/2000s. :/
Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-
When having to travel by foot to shop, you may have to make more than
one trip a week and carry a bag or two versus stuffing a car because
it's more convenient to make one trip. my cousin probably stops at the store on the way back from taking the subway to work.
I lived in San Francisco in a vibrant part of town with no parking
place. I would have to walk a block or two with groceries. I lived on
a busy street, so double-parking didn't work for me, but people I knew mastered the art.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
No. This has been proven before with trans females dominating sports
such as female weight lifting, cycling, running along with combat
sports.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-
Nightfox wrote to Moondog <=-
Yep.
Years ago, I bought a used 1996 Geo Prizm (basically a rebadged Toyota Corolla). It was a pretty good car, but it went through oil fast.
That's a frightening story; Toyota engines are usually pretty good,
and toyota mechanics pretty awesome. I wonder if Geo mechanics came
from the GM side.
I almost bought one of those in 1992, it was down to that or a
Sentra. I bought the Sentra and drove it for a decade.
Secretly, I want to go back to text emails, usenet, Gopher and early
web pages with that little "under construction" gif. And page
counters. And the blink tag!
We have a Scion xA that we bought in 2006 brand new. I now have 322,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ. Of course the clear coat is peeling off and other small things but definely got my money out of it. Every vehicle I've owned has gone well into the 300,000's but I keep up with maintenance and most miles are just highway. We commute from the foothills into the valley. Hell, even my Chevy Silverado is at 212,000 and still running great. Same thing though, the clearcoat is worn off and paint is oxidizing. Funny it's the same blue as our Scion.
Nightfox wrote to Thumper <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Thumper to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 10 2020 09:57 am
We have a Scion xA that we bought in 2006 brand new. I now have 322,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ. Of course the clear coat is peeling off and other small things but definely got my money out of it. Every vehicle I've owned has gone well into the 300,000's but I keep up with maintenance and most miles are just highway. We commute from the foothills into the valley. Hell, even my Chevy Silverado is at 212,000 and still running great. Same thing though, the clearcoat is worn off and paint is oxidizing. Funny it's the same blue as our Scion.
I believe Scion is (was) a Toyota brand, isn't it? It seems Toyota and
GM have made deals before. I had a 1996 Geo Prizm for a while, which
was basically a rebadged Toyota Corolla, which I believe was made at
the same factory in California as the Toyota Corollas were for the US market. It wouldn't surprise me that Toyota and GM brands have shared some paints and probably some other things.
Largely agreed, I am okay with Male/Female teams though... not sure that
trans can really fit into that role though... too many genetic
advantages for trans women, and trans men the opposite. Maybe a trans
category if there's enough people to create a team.
Can a team be cohesive if there are "token" members hired because of requirement other than physical ability? In sports where men excel over women, is a trans female playing on equal grounds with natural born females?
Secretly, I want to go back to text emails, usenet, Gopher and early
web pages with that little "under construction" gif. And page
counters. And the blink tag!
I've split the difference at my mechanic's suggestion. He doesn't
have any issue with the oil lasting 10K, but with the filters.
One oil change at 7,500 and one tire rotation at the same time works
out well.
Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
A lot of today's traffic is real time - streaming video (Netflix, etc), audio (Spotify and friends), etc. Caching is do 20th century/2000s. :/
Secretly, I want to go back to text emails, usenet, Gopher and early
web pages with that little "under construction" gif. And page
counters. And the blink tag!
... Abandon normal instruments
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
No. This has been proven before with trans females dominating sports such as female weight lifting, cycling, running along with combat sports.
Got some names and accomplishments you could cite?
I recall a trans pro-am tennis player who competed as both male, then
later female, but she didn't dominate by any stretch of the
imagination.
... Abandon normal instruments
On 11-09-20 07:04, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Secretly, I want to go back to text emails, usenet, Gopher and early
web pages with that little "under construction" gif. And page
counters. And the blink tag!
Secretly, I want to go back to text emails, usenet, Gopher and early
web pages with that little "under construction" gif. And page
counters. And the blink tag!
... Abandon normal instruments
I don't want to go back because I never left.
Fun part is usenet et all was probably born before I did.
I am worse than a nostalgic. I am nostalgic for stuff before my times.
Thumper wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
We have a Scion xA that we bought in 2006 brand new. I now have 322,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ. Of course the clear coat is peeling off and other small things but definely got my money out of it. Every vehicle I've owned has gone well into the 300,000's but I keep up with maintenance and most miles are just highway. We commute from the foothills into the valley. Hell, even my Chevy Silverado is at 212,000
and still running great. Same thing though, the clearcoat is worn off
and paint is oxidizing. Funny it's the same blue as our Scion.
Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I miss geocities.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
there's a lot of factors to take in when doing oil changes. for one, i would never believe the oil change place. and i never let them do anything other than replace my oil and filter. they already fucked up
my new skid plate. spent 10 mins trying to get one screw in and it
ended up falling out.
I miss geocities.
When people transitioned from making their own web pages (either
by hand, by CMS, or using a site like Geocities) to "Come see my
Facebook page", we lost something.
I recall a trans pro-am tennis player who competed as both male, then
later female, but she didn't dominate by any stretch of the
imagination.
I let them rotate my tires, and they screwed that up once. I had
locking nuts on my wheels, and they shredded the nut with their
impact wrench. I had to pay to have the nuts cut off.
I had to pay to have the nuts cut off.
Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I miss geocities.
When people transitioned from making their own web pages (either
by hand, by CMS, or using a site like Geocities) to "Come see my
Facebook page", we lost something.
... Abandon desire
Part of me loves cars and wants to get a really nice new car; another
part of me appreciates buying used cars with little niggling issues
and fixing them. I drove a 2002 Camry for 15 years, with just light
bulbs, brakes, tires, oil and a starter replaced in that time. And
regular maintenance. I'd have kept it if traffic hadn't gotten so
bad; that was when I bought a PHEV in order to get carpool stickers.
When MySpace was popular, one thing about MySpace I remember is that they allowed you to customize the theme of your account page by editing CSS and such that it would use for your page. I thought that was cool for a social networking site. But since then, I've heard a lot of people complain about
I miss geocities.
When people transitioned from making their own web pages (either
by hand, by CMS, or using a site like Geocities) to "Come see my
Facebook page", we lost something.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Thumper to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 10 2020 09:57 am
We have a Scion xA that we bought in 2006 brand new. I now have 322,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ. Of course the clear coat is peeling off and other small things but definely got my money out of it. Every vehicle I've owned has gone well into the 300,000's but I keep up with maintenance and most miles are just highway. We commute from the foothills into the valley. Hell, even my Chevy Silverado is at 212,000 still running great. Same thing though, the clearcoat is worn off and paint is oxidizing. Funny it's the same blue as our Scion.
I believe Scion is (was) a Toyota brand, isn't it? It seems Toyota and GM h a Corollas were for the US market. It wouldn't surprise me that Toyota and
Nightfox
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Tracker1 <=-
Tracker1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I miss geocities.
When people transitioned from making their own web pages (either
by hand, by CMS, or using a site like Geocities) to "Come see my
Facebook page", we lost something.
On 11-11-20 08:20, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
When MySpace was popular, one thing about MySpace I remember is that
they allowed you to customize the theme of your account page by editing CSS and such that it would use for your page. I thought that was cool
for a social networking site. But since then, I've heard a lot of
people complain about the look and feel being inconsistent when viewing different peoples' pages there, and one of the goals of Facebook was to make the look and feel consistent.
I wish XMPP and Mastadon had gained better, broader acceptance so
peoople could cluster by interest group instead of one site to rule them
all mentalities.
On 11-11-20 08:20, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=- Ni>When MySpace was popular, one thing about MySpace I remember is that
they allowed you to customize the theme of your account page byediting Ni> CSS and such that it would use for your page. I thought
that was cool Ni> for a social networking site. But since then,
I've heard a lot of Ni> people complain about the look and feel
being inconsistent when viewing Ni> different peoples' pages there,
and one of the goals of Facebook was to Ni> make the look and feel consistent. My pet hate in those days was pages that blasted out
music or other sounds without asking you first.
.. 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2. --- MultiMail/Win
v0.51 Synchronet Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia.
freeway.apana.org.au * Origin: thePharcyde_
telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (723:1/0)
My pet hate in those days was pages that blasted out music or other sounds without asking you first.
When MySpace was popular, one thing about MySpace I remember is that
they allowed you to customize the theme of your account page by
editing CSS and such that it would use for your page. I thought
My pet hate in those days was pages that blasted out music or other sounds without asking you first.
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
When MySpace was popular, one thing about MySpace I remember is that
they allowed you to customize the theme of your account page by editing CSS and such that it would use for your page.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
you can get a used car now with 10k miles and save a lot of money and
not have to fix anything.
Arelor wrote to Tracker1 <=-
I like what XMPP tries to do, but interoperatibility between clients
and between servers is inconsistent.
Mastodon is a politized mess at this point, with users harassing
operators of servers who don't ban impopular users, people demaning for hardcoded blacklists in the reference software itself etc.
There is a reason why I am prowliing BBSs instead of popular web
services these days. Also, long life IRC!
When MySpace was popular, one thing about MySpace I remember is that
they allowed you to customize the theme of your account page by
editing CSS and such that it would use for your page.
Livejournal had done that for a long time, too. LJ was one of the
best, long-format social sites out there. Different times...
Yeah, but I'm talking about spending less than 10K on a car; most
recently my wife and I were looking at SUVs with 3rd row seats. A
3-year old model was $18K, I ended up picking up a 2011 for under
$9k. Did an interior detailing for $279, replaced a bumper clip for
$15, couple of interior lights, brakes and fluids, and I'm maybe at
10K for a car that looks and drives new. The only fault is that it
doesn't play USB media, but my wife still buys CDs.
When people transitioned from making their own web pages (either
by hand, by CMS, or using a site like Geocities) to "Come see my
Facebook page", we lost something.
Victoria Ivy broke a number of track records and became a cycling champion. >This achievement was in the news fairly recently so I remember it quite well. >Fallon Fox is the trans female MMA fighter who fractured another competitor's >skull. It's a very controvertial subject as a number of biological females >refuse to fight her. Joe Rogan has spoken about this individual in great depth.
Trans female weight lifter Laurel Hubbard was blasted by Piers Morgan after >destroying other biological female competitors in the world of weight liftiing >and has her sights set on the next Olympics.
On 11-12-20 07:00, Charles Pierson wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My thing was all those sites playing popular music the people picked
for them, yet I post a video on YouTube of my granddaughters singing
along to a favorite song of theirs and it gets flagged as violating something or other. Yet that's what millions of people do daily.
Off topic, I know. But I had to vent.
On 11-12-20 10:47, Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My pet hate in those days was pages that blasted out music or other sounds without asking you first.
That's still my pet peeve with auto playing videos. At least browsers automatically mute them now. There was nothing worse than going to
some random site and suddenly your computer starts screaming:
"NEED CHEAP ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION DRUGS FAST?!?"
If that ever happened to me in the office I'd probably die of embarrassment.
On 11-12-20 08:14, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
My pet hate in those days was pages that blasted out music or other sounds without asking you first.
Yeah, that's one thing I don't like either.
Warpslide wrote to Vk3jed <=-
That's still my pet peeve with auto playing videos. At least browsers automatically mute them now. There was nothing worse than going to
some random site and suddenly your computer starts screaming:
"NEED CHEAP ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION DRUGS FAST?!?"
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Some car stereos can play MP3s burned onto CD-R, or perhaps on DVD-R.
That might be handy, if you still have an optical burner drive..
When people transitioned from making their own web pages (either
by hand, by CMS, or using a site like Geocities) to "Come see my
Facebook page", we lost something.
I have noticed lately that some people are leaving FB and YT, due to
various restrictions they don't agree with, and have gone back to the
making their own websites. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues.
* SLMR 2.1a * Beware Romulans baring GIFs.
Personally I've been seeing my freinds going to MeWe and Parler because they want to keep the social updates coming in
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sat Nov 14 2020 07:31 pm
Personally I've been seeing my freinds going to MeWe and Parler
because they want to keep the social updates coming in
I finally created an account on Parler. It's too slow for my liking. But any site is too slow compared to a BBS. That's what we need to express to the folks that use social media. BBS's have a smaller community, no ads and is fast, fast, fast.
I finally created an account on Parler. It's too slow for my liking. But any site is too slow compared to a BBS. That's what we need to express
to the folks that use social media. BBS's have a smaller community, no
ads and is fast, fast, fast.
i checked out parler again. it's just too twitter like and not enough activi ---
If you noticed it has the same users as Twitter also. Too bad we can't recruite some of the users to BBS land. Some great users here but we need more. By more I mean active users. ;-)
HusTler wrote to Moondog <=-
I finally created an account on Parler. It's too slow for my liking.
But any site is too slow compared to a BBS. That's what we need to
express to the folks that use social media. BBS's have a smaller community, no ads and is fast, fast, fast.
If you noticed it has the same users as Twitter also. Too bad we can't recruite some of the users to BBS land. Some great users here but we
need more. By more I mean active users. ;-)
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leave it and to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs. ---
Well, I feel BBSes ARE better. A lot better. Maybe I can convince others th same. I have over 100 users on my board but for some reason they don't retur after they go through the trouble of creating an account. I suspect most BBS SyOps experience the same. I think learning the BBS interface is too much fo them. I really don't understand it.
HusTler wrote to MRO <=-
If you noticed it has the same users as Twitter also. Too bad we
can't recruite some of the users to BBS land. Some great users here but
we need more. By more I mean active users.
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leave
it and to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs. ---
Well, I feel BBSes ARE better. A lot better. Maybe I can convince others the same. I have over 100 users on my board but for some reason they don't return after they go through the trouble of creating an account. I suspect most BBS SyOps experience the same. I think learning the BBS interface is too much for them. I really don't understand it.
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leave it and go
to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs.
BBSes are still, to me, long-form media. After seeing some of the
experiments with Telegram integration into Fidonet, I'm leaning the
opposite direction. I like having a place where I can thoughtfully
type a response into a real keyboard, not compose a 140 character
response onto a touch screen.
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leavego
it and
to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs.
I don't believe that FB is better.
Well, Synchronet's interface is not exactly super friendly. Compare it to, s Citadel/UX... Citadeo/UX is much more easy to understand in my opinion (but then it is not half as featureful).
i dont think they are confused. i just think they dont like it.why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leave
it and to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs. ---
do a questionaire asking them what they really want and what would keep them coming back. ---
On 11-16-20 16:38, Dumas Walker wrote to MRO <=-
@VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leave it and go
to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs.
I don't believe that FB is better.
On 11-16-20 17:57, HusTler wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I agree. I have a very nice smartphone but would never use it to send meaningful messages. Maybe that's why BBSes are not popular? People
don't know how to use a keyboard?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Nov 16 2020 04:38 pm
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leavego
it and
to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs.
I don't believe that FB is better.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to HusTler on Mon Nov 16 2020 11:02:30
Well, Synchronet's interface is not exactly super friendly. Compare it to Citadel/UX... Citadeo/UX is much more easy to understand in my opinion (b then it is not half as featureful).
Are you talking like the predecessor to DOC (Dave's Own version of Citadel that like ISCABBS and the like ran off of?
Arelor wrote to HusTler <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: HusTler to MRO on Mon Nov 16 2020 07:43 am
Well, I feel BBSes ARE better. A lot better. Maybe I can convince others th same. I have over 100 users on my board but for some reason they don't retur after they go through the trouble of creating an account. I suspect most BBS SyOps experience the same. I think learning the BBS interface is too much fo them. I really don't understand it.
Well, Synchronet's interface is not exactly super friendly. Compare it
to, say Citadel/UX... Citadeo/UX is much more easy to understand in my opinion (but then it is not half as featureful).
Also, I can't tell about others, but in my case I have registered to
many BBS but only call regularly a couple of them. The reason is that I was looking for a BBS I liked at first, and once I found the ones I
liked, I stuck to them.
I don't think running your own BBS is worth it unless you want it for
the learning or hobby experience. There are lots of ops doing a great
job out there. If you just want to chat you just call a BBS that works.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Nov 16 2020 04:38 pm
why would someone that uses something better than a bbs want to leavego
it and
to a bbs? that wont happen. people dont want to use a bbs.
I don't believe that FB is better.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
I don't believe that FB is better.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
It depends on what you're trying to achieve. BBSs definitely have a better "vibe", but only a small miniroty of people. But that said, I belive FB really screwed up their latest interface. While it does have some nice features, they really impeded communication, because notifications are so hard to follow and keep up with now.
I don't believe that FB is better.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
That proves it is more popular, not that it is better for any specific
Do 2.7 billion people communicate meaningfully on FB, or does it just have 2.6 billion which scroll through feeds idly?
I am not familiar with DOC.
I am talking about the sucessor of the original Citadel code. The project si is at citadel.org.
I am talking about the sucessor of the original Citadel code. The project si is at citadel.org.
I don't believe that FB is better.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
It depends on what you're trying to achieve. BBSs definitely have a better "vibe", but only a small miniroty of people. But that said, I belive FB reall
screwed up their latest interface. While it does have some nice features, the
really impeded communication, because notifications are so hard to follow and keep up with now.
And if the changes are something to do with getting eyeballs on ads, well I don't even notice the ads now!
That proves it is more popular, not that it is better for any
specific
the fact that it is more popular proves it is better. people go for what is better and for what they want.
Well, Synchronet's interface is not exactly super friendly. Compare it to Citadel/UX... Citadeo/UX is much more easy to understand in my opinion (b then it is not half as featureful).
I don't believe that FB is better.
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
More popular <> better. Politics should be teaching us that.
Not always. I think one example was Windows vs. OS/2 in the 90s. I thought OS/2 seemed better than Windows, but Windows became more popular. One could have also argued that the Mac or the Amiga were better than the PC,
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: HusTler to MRO on Mon Nov 16 2020 07:43 am
Well, I feel BBSes ARE better. A lot better. Maybe I can convince others th same. I have over 100 users on my board but for some reason they don't retur after they go through the trouble of creating an account. I suspect most BBS SyOps experience the same. I think learning the BBS interface is too much fo them. I really don't understand it.
Well, Synchronet's interface is not exactly super friendly. Compare it to, say Citadel/UX... Citadeo/UX is much more easy to understand in my opinion (but then it is not half as featureful).
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to Sprite on Tue Nov 17 2020 03:00:22
I am talking about the sucessor of the original Citadel code. The project is at citadel.org.
Oh sweet, I started looking through the Citadel site and at first I thou there was absolutely no way that it was the same as I was expecting. When I got down on the screenshots menu to the portion labeled Citadel Text Rooms, though, it's the exact same damn thing. If you've got experience with that text interface, I would absolutely love to have your input on it when I get that shell up and running, should I reengage with that project...
Well, Synchronet's interface is not exactly super friendly. Compare it to say Citadel/UX... Citadeo/UX is much more easy to understand in my opinio (but then it is not half as featureful).
Which Synchronet interface are you referring to? I'm not being defensive, I' just curious, because Synchronet is a bit of a chameleon to remote (terminal users and could likely impersonate Citidal/UX or any other BBS interface you find more easy to understand. Synchronet installs come with several command shells that are either greatly simplified (and "easy") or emulate other popu BBS programs of the 1990s.
MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to MRO on Tue Nov 17 2020 09:43 pm
Do 2.7 billion people communicate meaningfully on FB, or does it just have 2.6 billion which scroll through feeds idly?
why dont you ask them and get back to us.
MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
Vk3jed wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
It depends on what you're trying to achieve. BBSs definitely have a better "vibe", but only a small miniroty of people. But that said, I belive FB really screwed up their latest interface. While it does have some nice features, they really impeded communication, because notifications are so hard to follow and keep up with now.
Vk3jed wrote to HusTler <=-
those times where carrying around a netbook isn't practical. Lack of decent mobile support is the biggest limitation of BBSing in 2020, I
feel.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
os2 was better for a minute. but then they had issues and the windows team did a better job and the strong survived.
os2 was better for a minute. but then they had issues and the
windows team did a better job and the strong survived.
I'd give the credit to Microsoft's marketing more than anything else.
if there's more people using something it's usually because that thing is bette
than the thing they arent using.
In fact I think I had more trouble with undocumented things than with the interface itself as a n00b. I think that to this day there is no documented way of exiting a chat session with the Guru - both in the interface or in the docs.
I think Citadel does slightly better (not great) in that regard. The text interface has a help+info function and the website has (or at least used to have) information about their rooms+floors paradign,. which is what sets Citadel appart from everything else nowadays.
MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
2.7 billion people use facebook.
the proof is in the pudding.
Mcdonalds has sold 30 billion hamburgers. Doesn't make them better.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
os2 was better for a minute. but then they had issues and the
windows team did a better job and the strong survived.
I'd give the credit to Microsoft's marketing more than anything else.
Yes, I think that was a large part of it. Marketing, and making deals with OEM PC vendors to make it more financially viable to install Windows on their PCs (or less financially viable to instaoo competing operating systems like OS/2). Marketing can have a lot to do with making something more popular. It's not necessarily the product being better.
if there's more people using something it's usually because that thingbette
is
than the thing they arent using.
Or it could just mean they don't know what they are doing. FYI, more people voted for HRC in 2016 and Biden in 2020. Does that make them better than any other alternative?
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
os2 was better for a minute. but then they had issues and the windows team did a better job and the strong survived.
I'd give the credit to Microsoft's marketing more than anything else.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
os2 was better for a minute. but then they had issues and the windows team did a better job and the strong survived.
I'd give the credit to Microsoft's marketing more than anything else.
On 11-17-20 08:13, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I feel like Facebook is more geared toward mobile usage too. There are
a couple features I've seen on Facebook recently that only work on
their mobile app (not on the web site). Also, when loading their web
site on a desktop PC now, it looks like everything is in a somewhat
narrow column in the middle, similar to their mobile site. It's almost like they're not designing things for a bigger screen anymore.
On 11-17-20 17:04, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-
I think they goofed up their PC interface in some attempt to get
everyone using a mobile interface. I have not noticed it changing as
much or, if it did, I must have it disabled.
And if the changes are something to do with getting eyeballs on ads, well I don't even notice the ads now!
I have noticed that some of the ads are better disguised now and look
like user posts.
On 11-17-20 06:59, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
When social networks start futzing with feed order, that's when I
think things have gone south.
On 11-17-20 07:04, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I go the other way. If I'm looking for something to check when I'm
waiting in line at the DMV, I'll check out Twitter on my phone.
I wouldn't be tempted to read and write a meaningful reply to a BBS
message on my phone in the same situation.
But, I'm an edge case. One experience I remember fondly about BBSing
was traveling before wifi and the web. I had an old Windows laptop
with me, and brought a week's worth of QWK mail with me. I spent the
time in the airport lobby and a 4 hour flight catching up on mail,
probably wrote 30-40 replies, then downloaded another QWK packet for
the trip home.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective methods.
they ARE better than other fast food restaurants.
Facebook certtainly feels more comfortable on a decent mobile device (it flies on my iPhone SE). I did try the mobile interface on the PC, but I found without the touch screen, it sucked.
But, I'm an edge case. One experience I remember fondly about BBSing
was traveling before wifi and the web. I had an old Windows laptop
with me, and brought a week's worth of QWK mail with me. I spent the
time in the airport lobby and a 4 hour flight catching up on mail,
probably wrote 30-40 replies, then downloaded another QWK packet for
the trip home.
that's apples and oranges. nobody had opportunities to 'use' hillary and biden
and compare them to alternatives.
excuse me while i puke now.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective methods
they ARE better than other fast food restaurants.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective methods
they ARE better than other fast food restaurants.
They market better, and do a better job of being affordable and (usually) consistant, that is for sure.
* SLMR 2.1a * Warning! Incomprehensible action is about to occur.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.methods
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective
they ARE better than other fast food restaurants.
They market better, and do a better job of being affordable and (usually) consistant, that is for sure.
On 11-19-20 09:37, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Even Facebook's desktop web site seems to be somewhat mobile-oriented
now. No matter how big I make my web browser window, Facebook's site seems to use a fixed-width column in the middle of the window.
On 11-19-20 09:35, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective methods.
they ARE better than other fast food restaurants.
I don't know about that.. Sometimes I feel like my stomach doesn't
quite agree with some of their food.
On 11-19-20 06:18, Sprite wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I used to do the same. Well, not in airports so very much; back in the day when I was on and the technology of QWK packets was still [somewhat] fresh I wasn't bouncing around the country yet, but it was really nice when I wasn't able to get online to be able to catch up on some threads with some well thought out replies. Hell, with enough
time not being able to be online I'd even be able to chop up some of
these run-on sentences a little bit. Heh.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I'd give the credit to Microsoft's marketing more than anything else.
os2's marketing was crap. os2 also had some driver problems didnt it.
HusTler wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I just remember I couldn't get much software for it. I could get tons
of software for Windows 94 and up. So I retired OS2.
MRO wrote to Arelor <=-
well you have the people like us who grew up on what we consider conventional bbs softwares: renegade iniquity, vbbs, tbbs, telegard, synchronet, searchlight, rbbs, etc. they all have the same sort of
feel.
then there's citadel which is entirely different. i cant name other softwares like citadel but i've visited them many years ago.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective methods.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
well, os2 was right there on the shelves being sold too. as was ms windows.
Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-
If I want a decent burger, the best place is the little family fish and chop shops - order a "Hamburger with the lot", who cook them fresh
while you wait. And they put beetroot in burgers - only way to have
them here. :D
I don't know about that.. Sometimes I feel like my stomach doesn't
quite agree with some of their food.
They're sometimes jokingly referred to as "McChucks" over here. :D
I'm not keen on their burgers, but they do sell other things here that are OK, but still pretty pricey. :/
If I want a decent burger, the best place is the little family fish and chop shops - order a "Hamburger with the lot", who cook them fresh while you wait. And they put beetroot in burgers - only way to have them here. :D
Back in the 90s, an laptop with an internal modem was handy, and one just had to get access to a phone line, do a QWK transfer then move on. :)
On 11-20-20 07:59, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
We have two little cook-to-order places around here, both have
outdoor seating with old-fashioned cement tables and benches with
umbrellas, and a pickup window outside. The design looks like
something out of the 1950s. You can't beat a cook-to-order greasy
burger, shoestring fries and a fountain coke sometimes.
On 11-20-20 09:08, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Beets aren't my favorite vegetable, but that sounds like it could be
good.
On 11-20-20 17:32, Sprite wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Indeed. Alas I was always running the cheapest parts on the block, I don't think I had a laptop at all until I was deep enough into my 20s
so that the 90s were gone. If I did ever have one, it was well beyond
the point where dialup services were just a memory for the most part.
Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-
On 11-20-20 09:08, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Beets aren't my favorite vegetable, but that sounds like it could be
good.
Gotta have beetroot in a burger (is that an Aussie thing? ;) ).
Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Pineapple in a burger is also haram.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have
effective methods.
When I was commuting to several offices in the bay area, I started a "Cheap Coffee of the Week" section on my blog, and tried all of the
to-go coffees. McDonalds compared well to them all, and for a buck
and 90 seconds in a drive through, it ended up being my go-to coffee
stop.
I read a few years ago that McDonalds, while being tight-lipped about their supply chain, ended up using fair-trade suppliers, shade-grown coffee, and was pretty reasonable to their suppliers. You'd think
they'd be bragging in their advertising non-stop.
I'm curious to try their pastries. With COVID most likely killing the
idea of a walk-in coffee shop, McD is well positioned to take some of
the Starbucks/Dunkin audience.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
well, os2 was right there on the shelves being sold too. as was ms
windows.
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS and
later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were sold with DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC without paying
for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
A good burger is almost like home cooked, not greasy at all and all fresh ingredients. And the fish and chip shops do them really well. :)
Pineapple in a burger is also haram.
All of the Hawaiian BBQ places near me do a grilled pineapple and
teriyaki sauce burger; pretty good, although I've never seen one in Hawaii.
When I'm in Hawaii, I'm more of a kalua pork plate lunch and seafood
kinda guy.
there is an extremely vocal minority that trash talks mcdonalds.
mcdonalds has the fastest drive thru, their food always tastes the same and their orders dont get screwed up much.
i went to hardees recently and had a pub burger. it was doused with salt. really disgusting. and they got my order wrong and my fries tasted like they were cooked in old gutter oil. they had a soapy taste.
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS and
later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were sold
with DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC without
paying for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
that's the story but we all have free will, right? if someone wanted to run a different operating system they would have borrowed it from a friend and loaded it on the computer. word of mouth is the best advertising.
it's their fault for not having good business sense. these little guys could have included a free copy of their OS with the package along side dos.
I have heard McDonalds is making a lot of bucks from non-food related endevours, such as real state. Specifically, buying cool spots and then renting
them to franchisers so they can run a McDonalds in it.
Nowadays, it'd be hard to spin an in-house solution to compete with G Suite or Microsoft 365.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
well, os2 was right there on the shelves being sold too. as was ms windows.
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS and
later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were sold with
DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC without paying
for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
... Accretion
Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-
If I want a decent burger, the best place is the little family fish and chop shops - order a "Hamburger with the lot", who cook them fresh while you wait. And they put beetroot in burgers - only way to have them here. :D
We have two little cook-to-order places around here, both have
outdoor seating with old-fashioned cement tables and benches with
umbrellas, and a pickup window outside. The design looks like
something out of the 1950s. You can't beat a cook-to-order greasy
burger, shoestring fries and a fountain coke sometimes.
... Abandon normal instruments
I like home cooked burgers, but I've gotten to really like some fast food s. Perhaps part of it is consistency, since I know what fast food burgers e and I know what I'm getting when I buy one. Home cooked burgers are goo can turn out somewhat differently each time.
I've had some teriyaki burgers that have pineapple, and I think it's not bad. I also like pineapple on pizza (Hawaiian pizza is one of my favorites).
burgers I like and I know what I'm getting when I buy one. Home cooked burgers are good but can turn out somewhat differently each time.
Nowadays, it'd be hard to spin an in-house solution to compete with G
Suite or Microsoft 365.
More importantly, why would you want to? They are both amazing offerings with pretty much all the basics a business needs. Let them worry about uptime and backups and compliance and all the crap.
We don't have Hardees where I am, but we have Carl's Jr., which is owned by the same company (I think they used to be separate a long time ago).
We also have a few A&W locations here, and I like their Papa Burger. I like a Burger King Whopper sometimes too. And I'd prefer pretty much all of those over a McDonalds burger.
guys could have included a free copy of their OS with the package
along side
dos.
A lot of people would probably just want to buy a working computer and leave it as-is. And in the 90s, how many people did the average computer person know who had a copy of OS/2? I knew maybe one person.. Most people I knew had copies of DOS and Windows.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sat Nov 21 2020 10:29 am
burgers I like and I know what I'm getting when I buy one. Home
cooked burgers are good but can turn out somewhat differently each
time.
I cannot, for the life of me, cook ground beef on a BBQ consistently. Any other cut of any other meat, just fine - but burgers are always rare or well done.
I agree. Pineapple/Hawaiian pizza is the one true pizza to rule them all. t wait for the flames to come back on this one).
We got a Groupon for this place called SupperWorks that used to be here in town. (Quite some time ago now). It was this whole "experience" where you signed up & they gave you a glass of wine and you went through and prepped everything for your meals for the week. Think of it like Hello Fresh except you go there and prep everything yourself using their ingredients.
One of the things we still make from there was this "Summer BBQ Burger" where you mix ground beef, pork & veal together with some seasonings, caesar salad dressing and real bacon bits. One of the best burgers I've ever had, anywhere and we can re-create it relatively consistently at home.
The only pain really is frying up the bacon for the real bacon bits, but otherwise it's pretty easy prep. During the summer our grocery store usually have the 3-pack (beef, pork & veal) of meat ready to go which makes things even easier.
I agree. Pineapple/Hawaiian pizza is the one true pizza to rule them all. (Can't wait for the flames to come back on this one).
I cannot, for the life of me, cook ground beef on a BBQ consistently. Any other cut of any other meat, just fine - but burgers are always rare or well done.
computer person know who had a copy of OS/2? I knew maybe one
person.. Most people I knew had copies of DOS and Windows.
it depends on the person. if you were a computer hobbyst you could probably get anything you wanted. people had dos and windows because it worked better than what else was available.
it's another case of the strong surviving.
Check out "The Founder" with Michael Keaton for a great dramatisation of the founding of McDonalds and why the buy and lease back the land.
burgers are always rare or well done.
I had a barbecue before I sold my house. I rarely used it myself though. My ex wife used to cook on it more often than I did (which was just every so often).
it's another case of the strong surviving.
I'm not sure about that.. I think OS/2 worked pretty darn well. OS/2 was relatively popular for BBSing for a reason, in that it multi-tasked DOS programs very well. I ran OS/2 for a little while (dual-booted with Windows), and I had no real problems with it. I think the only issue was
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Sun Nov 08 2020 12:45 am
Pineapple in a burger is also haram.
I've had some teriyaki burgers that have pineapple, and I think it's
not bad. I also like pineapple on pizza (Hawaiian pizza is one of my favorites).
Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 21 2020 08:08 pm
A good burger is almost like home cooked, not greasy at all and all fresh ingredients. And the fish and chip shops do them really well. :)
I like home cooked burgers, but I've gotten to really like some fast
food burgers. Perhaps part of it is consistency, since I know what
fast food burgers I like and I know what I'm getting when I buy one.
Home cooked burgers are good but can turn out somewhat differently each time.
Bob Roberts wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Dennisk on Sat Nov 21 2020 10:33 am
I've had some teriyaki burgers that have pineapple, and I think it's not bad. I also like pineapple on pizza (Hawaiian pizza is one of my favorites).
I agree. Pineapple/Hawaiian pizza is the one true pizza to rule them
all. (Can't wait for the flames to come back on this one).
On 11-08-20 00:45, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Gotta have beetroot in a burger (is that an Aussie thing? ;) ).
Yes, it seems to be. Never seen it overseas and everytime I get a
burger from a Fish and Chip shop, or other takeaway store, its sans beetroot.
Not my thing. Beetroot has an overpowering flavour. If you put
beetroot in a burger, in my opinion, you may as well ONLY have beetroot because it stomps over all the other flavours.
Pineapple in a burger is also haram.
On 11-21-20 10:29, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I like home cooked burgers, but I've gotten to really like some fast
food burgers. Perhaps part of it is consistency, since I know what
fast food burgers I like and I know what I'm getting when I buy one.
Home cooked burgers are good but can turn out somewhat differently each time.
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS and
later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were sold with DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC without paying
for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Nov 21 2020 06:09 pm
it's another case of the strong surviving.
I'm not sure about that.. I think OS/2 worked pretty darn well. OS/2 was relatively popular for BBSing for a reason, in that it multi-tasked DOS programs very well. I ran OS/2 for a little while (dual-booted with Windows), and I had no real problems with it. I think the only issue was
it was better for about a minute. but they had some poor marketing.
i did see a few ads on tv though and i wondered about it.
i still think os2 had driver problems and that's what hurt them a lot. ---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
It's the whole mixing sweet with savoury that gets to me. I'm not fond of any fruit or fruit based stuff of savoury food. No mango on chicken, pineapple on pizza or burgers. Honey glazed ham is OK, but no apricot chicken or cranberry sauce with turkey. Must be a Northern European thing? I don't know, but it reminds me of how the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles would put chocolate on pizza.
Not into McDonalds burgers at all.
Pineapple in a burger is also haram.
Now that one is nasty. Pineapple if too strong for me with anything. Only exception is pineapple juice watered down 50% or a little more water.
I Agree!
Gotta have beetroot in a burger (is that an Aussie thing? ;) ).
I finally created an account on Parler. It's too slow for my liking. But any site is too slow compared to a BBS. That's what we need to express to the folks that use social media. BBS's have a smaller community, no ads and is fast, fast, fast.
If you noticed it has the same users as Twitter also. Too bad we can't recruite some of the users to BBS land. Some great users here but we need more. By more I mean active users. ;-)
HusTler wrote to ALL <=-
How did Microsoft "Coerce" OEMS exactly?
I think probably the biggest obsticle we face with todays jaded users is tha they all expect lightening fast HD Graphics, which is just not something a B can provide. The reason a BBS IS so fast is because it is all pure text. Eve ANSI and RIP are still just sending plain text which is supper fast.But I'm only interested in what people are saying in their text. Not what it looks like with pretty pictures.
-+-
Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Pineapple in a burger is also haram.
All of the Hawaiian BBQ places near me do a grilled pineapple and
teriyaki sauce burger; pretty good, although I've never seen one in
Hawaii.
When I'm in Hawaii, I'm more of a kalua pork plate lunch and seafood
kinda guy.
... What context would look right?
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 21 2020 10:42 am
there is an extremely vocal minority that trash talks mcdonalds.
mcdonalds has the fastest drive thru, their food always tastes the same and their orders dont get screwed up much.
I agree McDonalds is fairly fast and consistent. Sometimes I stop by a McDo
i went to hardees recently and had a pub burger. it was doused with sal really disgusting. and they got my order wrong and my fries tasted like they were cooked in old gutter oil. they had a soapy taste.
We don't have Hardees where I am, but we have Carl's Jr., which is owned by star' burger that's probably one of my favorites.
We also have a few A&W locations here, and I like their Papa Burger. I like
Nightfox
And the LORD did sayeth unto Japheth, "Why didst thou forsake the memory of Romans and put pineapple on thy Pizza?". And Japheth did hide his face in shame, because he knew that fruit on Pizza was an abomination unto the LORD. For thy God has provided the bounty of the tropics and the grain for creatin leavened bread, but in His holy wisdom has kept these apart. Let no man bringeth them together.
Giuseppe 3:16
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 21 2020 12:28 pm
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS and
later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were sold with DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC without paying
for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
How did Microsoft "Coerce" OEMS exactly?
I really enjoy Five Guys burgrs, but try not to get burnt out and save them fo rroad trips. i like Culvers, Hardees, Arbys, Dairy Queen, Burger King, and Mc Donalds in that order. While it's no reflection on the franchise, the closest Burger King has had quality issues on and off. At their other stores I've had better service.
Sounds like a fusion thing or a local product with Hawaiian influence. It's like TexMex or CalMex, or Southwestern variation is over here in the US. There are also food trucks that sell Asian Tacos, which are a fusion of Asian seasonings or a fermented slaw with teriyaki sauce marinaded meat on a flour tortilla.
And if the changes are something to do with getting eyeballs on ads, well I don't even notice the ads now!
Synchronet or any other BBS software. Its "P" for post a message and "R" to reply. Oh and "D" for download. How hard is that?
Not always. I think one example was Windows vs. OS/2 in the 90s. I
thought OS/2 seemed better than Windows, but Windows became more
popular. One could have also argued that the Mac or the Amiga were
better than the PC,
I'd give the credit to Microsoft's marketing more than anything else.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
they are consistant and the food isnt offensive and they have effective methods.
Not always. I think one example was Windows vs. OS/2 in the 90s. I
thought OS/2 seemed better than Windows, but Windows became more
popular. One could have also argued that the Mac or the Amiga were
better than the PC,
There was one feature in OS/2 that I really liked and wished all the other GUI OS' would have adopted, and that was that it you wanted to use a certain image for your icon, all you had to do was drop that image onto the shortcut.
Also, Back then the computers where somewhat specialized:
Mac: Best for Desktop Publishing
Amiga: Best for graphics
Atari: best for audio work
PC: Best for number crunching/office work
HusTler wrote to ALL <=-
How did Microsoft "Coerce" OEMS exactly?
By threatening to *not* sell them OEM licenses of DOS unless they purchased a copy of DOS with every PC they sold - regardless of what
OS they bundled with the final sale.
I really enjoy Five Guys burgrs, but try not to get burnt out and save them fo rroad trips. i like Culvers, Hardees, Arbys, Dairy Queen, Burger
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 22 2020 11:55 pm
Sounds like a fusion thing or a local product with Hawaiian influence. It's like TexMex or CalMex, or Southwestern variation is over here in t US. There are also food trucks that sell Asian Tacos, which are a fusio of Asian seasonings or a fermented slaw with teriyaki sauce marinaded m on a flour tortilla.
I live not far from Mt. Angel, OR, which apparently has the largest Oktoberf erman festival seemed rather amusing to me.
Nightfox
not only non-traditional, but is also a Swiss thing. It's like how everyone turned St Patrick's day into a drinking event, when in fact it's origin was more of a sober nature to represent the Irish Amercians in a positive light for their contributions to helping build the nation, and discourage the stereotypes of Irish being drunk and belligerant.
On 11-22-20 09:29, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Years ago, I saw a list of funny name combinations in wedding announcements, and one of them was "MacDonald-Berger":
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/82/d8/d982d8a01241ec41e450009e0f28e5c9 .jpg
On 11-22-20 09:34, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I didn't really like pineapple much when I was growing up, but I liked pinaepple with some things.
I visited Brazil a few times years ago, and there was a place there
that sold sugar cane juice - you could buy it plain or mixed with a
fruit juice. One of the options was pineapple juice mixed in with it,
and I thought that was pretty good.
I've tried to find sugarcane juice in the US after coming back, but haven't been able to find it like it is in Brazil. There's an Asian market in my area that sells some, which I tried but I didn't like
theirs (it tasted more like sugar water, which was quite different from the stuff I had in Brazil).
On 11-22-20 16:28, Sprite wrote to Vk3jed <=-
That sounds interesting and I kind of want to try it. Is it just
like diced and added to the burgerfleisch? Precooked at all?
On 11-23-20 08:19, Lupine Furmen wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I don't get the ads on FB anymore since I started using Fluff Buster.
On 11-22-20 21:00, Dennisk wrote to Nightfox <=-
It's the whole mixing sweet with savoury that gets to me. I'm not fond
of any fruit or fruit based stuff of savoury food. No mango on
chicken, pineapple on pizza or burgers. Honey glazed ham is OK, but no apricot chicken or cranberry sauce with turkey. Must be a Northern European thing? I don't know, but it reminds me of how the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles would put chocolate on pizza.
On 11-22-20 21:29, Dennisk wrote to Bob Roberts <=-
And the LORD did sayeth unto Japheth, "Why didst thou forsake the
memory of the Romans and put pineapple on thy Pizza?". And Japheth did hide his face in shame, because he knew that fruit on Pizza was an abomination unto the LORD. For thy God has provided the bounty of the tropics and the grain for creating leavened bread, but in His holy
wisdom has kept these apart. Let no man bringeth them together.
Giuseppe 3:16
By threatening to *not* sell them OEM licenses of DOS unless they
purchased a copy of DOS with every PC they sold - regardless of
what OS they bundled with the final sale.
i thought it was more of a business deal. they gave it for free when the other guys wanted money for their oses to go on the ibm compat computers.
microsoft wasnt always a heavy hitter and they couldnt threaten anybody around that period of time. ---
My brain seems to be a highly effective ad filter, especially now that they've screwed up their feeds. :D
i thought it was more of a business deal. they gave it for free when the other
guys wanted money for their oses to go on the ibm compat computers.
microsoft wasnt always a heavy hitter and they couldnt threaten anybody around >hat period of time.
By the time Windows 95 came out, I think Microsoft was big enough to probably be able to do that kind of thing. From what I've heard, I think some of Microsoft's tactics might have forced OS/2 and other compoetition out of the market.
i thought it was more of a business deal. they gave it for free whenother
the
guys wanted money for their oses to go on the ibm compat computers.
microsoft wasnt always a heavy hitter and they couldnt threaten anybody
around hat period of time.
I never heard of the "you cannot buy a pc without a windows license" until about the time Win95 came out. I never heard of them doing that with MS-DOS but they might have I would not have known.
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS and later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were sold
with DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC without paying for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
How did Microsoft "Coerce" OEMS exactly?
I don't know back then, but nowadays they leave you out of their marketing programs if the computers you make are not compliant with their conditions.
Synchronet or any other BBS software. Its "P" for post a message and "R" to reply. Oh and "D" for download. How hard is that?
Actually, On Syncronet 'R' is Re-read the message, and 'A' is Reply. So in t respect Mystic is more logical with 'R' for Reply and 'A' for Read 'A'gain.
mcdonalds is actually one of the better fast food restaurants.
You, sir, need to go see a Doctor since your taste buds are obviously completely unfunctional if you can honestly say that with a straight face. McD's is by FAR and AWAY the absolute WORST burgers out there!!!!
On 11-24-20 10:31, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Lupine Furmen on Tue Nov 24 2020 07:06 pm
My brain seems to be a highly effective ad filter, especially now that they've screwed up their feeds. :D
I tend to do that too. I usually don't pay attention to ads on web
sites, and I normally don't even remember what ads I may have seen.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vk3jed to Lupine Furmen on Tue Nov 24 2020 07:06 pm
My brain seems to be a highly effective ad filter, especially now that they've
screwed up their feeds. :D
I tend to do that too. I usually don't pay attention to ads on web sites, and I
normally don't even remember what ads I may have seen.
Nightfox
Actually the reason I got into proxies and DNS blacklists was precisely that advertisers made it impossible for me to use Internet at all from home unless I eliminated them.
I tend to do that too. I usually don't pay attention to ads on web
sites, and I normally don't even remember what ads I may have seen.
That positions is soooo first worlder.
The real problem with ads is not the screen they take. It is some times but it is not the reason why advertising networks must be mercilessly obliterated with anti-matter weapons.
The real reason why advertisements suck is that people in rural places of crappy provinces may have 1 meg bandwidth to share among a whole family. Advertisements are content which you haven't requested, which use YOUR BW, which YOU are paying, in order to hit you. When those resources are scarce, well... If 30% of what you are loading is ads you don't have a meg anymore, you have LESS.
Actually the reason I got into proxies and DNS blacklists was precisely that advertisers made it impossible for me to use Internet at all from home unless I eliminated them.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to HusTler on Mon Nov 23 2020 05:16 am
Yeah, but Microsoft coerced OEMs into including a copy of DOS
and later Windows with all PCs, regardless of whether they were
sold with DOS/Windows. There was no easy way to buy a bare PC
without paying for Microsoft licenses - still, to this day!
How did Microsoft "Coerce" OEMS exactly?
I don't know back then, but nowadays they leave you out of their
marketing programs if the computers you make are not compliant with
their conditions.
I'll tell you what. I've been doing a lot of research on new laptops. What's this Windows 10 S shit? Or Some call it Windows 10 in S mode. I almost fell for it. It's bullshit. If you buy a PC with this S mode you can only install software from Windows store. Apparently Microsoft is still at it. I friekin hate that company! ;-)
I LOVED MACDONALDS! I lived off of it in my single drinkin dayz! Jack'n the Box ran a close second cause they were open all night. Macdonalds closed at 11:00PM back then or maybe it was 10?. Jacks had great Onion rings too! YUM! I still love Macdonalds! ;-)
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Nov 25 2020 09:33 am
Actually the reason I got into proxies and DNS blacklists was precisely that advertisers made it impossible for me to use Internet at all from home unless I eliminated them.
I only browse with my privacy extensions:
- Ublock Origin
- HTTPS everywhere
- ClearURLs
It makes everything better.
I tried setting up and using a Pihole. While it was nice not having ads anywhere on the network -- it kept blocking my wife's shopping apps and caus me more headache then benefit.
|01bobbobbobbob|09bob|03bob|11bob|03bob|09bob|01bobbobbob |01robrobrobrob|09rob|03rob|11rob|03rob|09rob|01robrobrob
|07
That's true, and it's a good point. I wasn't trying to sound complaining of first-world problem, as I totally agree and think it's a bit of a waste of bandwidth. I have an ad blocker I use in my web browser, but the ads are st downloaded even if they aren't being displayed.
HusTler wrote to Arelor <=-
I'll tell you what. I've been doing a lot of research on new laptops. What's this Windows 10 S shit? Or Some call it Windows 10 in S mode. I almost fell for it. It's bullshit.
If you buy a PC with this S mode you
can only install software from Windows store. Apparently Microsoft is still at it. I friekin hate that company!
By the time Windows 95 came out, I think Microsoft was big enough to
probably be able to do that kind of thing. From what I've heard, I
think some of Microsoft's tactics might have forced OS/2 and other
compoetition out of the market.
this type of stuff happened before win95
Linux is very good at too. I heard Linux PCs were even used to make the 3D rendered scenes in the movie Titanic (1997), from what I recall.
I LOVED MACDONALDS! I lived off of it in my single drinkin dayz! Jack'n the Box ran a close second cause they were open all night. Macdonalds closed at 11:00PM back then or maybe it was 10?. Jacks had great Onion rings too! YUM! I still love Macdonalds! ;-)
That's true, and it's a good point. I wasn't trying to sound
complaining of first-world problem, as I totally agree and think it's
a bit of a waste of bandwidth. I have an ad blocker I use in my web
browser, but the ads are st downloaded even if they aren't being
displayed.
Hmmm... well the whole point of ad blockers is that they detect the http query for the advertisement and prevent the browser from doing it, at least for most common ads.
Proxies and DNS blacklists hijack the query and respond with a "this resource does not exist" signal, so the advertisement is never downloaded in the first place.
was the one that made it FOR IBM). OS/2 Warp 2.0 and Windows NT 3.0 were
pretty much the same. The reason why Windows XP was so 'shitty' it was a total rewrite because IBM and Microsoft were in a Antitrust lawsuit...
That's what killed OS/2. OS/2 was a superior OS at the time (that Gates was the one that made it FOR IBM). OS/2 Warp 2.0 and Windows NT 3.0 were pretty much the same. The reason why Windows XP was so 'shitty' it was a total rewrite because IBM and Microsoft were in a Antitrust lawsuit... total rewrite because IBM and Microsoft were in a Antitrust lawsuit...
Yeah, I think I've seen some that work like that. A long time ago, I worked at a place that I think had something like that, and many web sites had empty spaces in them where ads would normally be.
If you'd done a little more research you'd see that you can upgrade
Windows 10 S with a couple of clicks.
--- MOONDOG wrote ---
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: mark firestone to MOONDOG on Mon Oct 05 2020 03:22
pm
--- MOONDOG wrote --
Sinclair ZXOn a discussion forum I visit there is a member who bought and Altai emulator which recreates the front panel, and runs off an arduin microcontroller. I showed him a link to a Pet 2001 kit and a
boughwhich both require soldering components to a circuit board, and he
thanboth to recreate pc's from his past. if my Pet 2001-8 requires more
kit.few roms replaced, I might order the DIY replacement drop-in board
interiSince it uses modern components, it takes up a fraction of the pc's
singlMemory and rom chips are the parts which could be consolidated into
IC's
I just ordered one of those... or something like it... Not quite surewhat
I'm going to do with it after it turns up and I solder it together...
Back in the 1970's up intot he early 90's my neighbor was an accountant
at
Heath Company, maker of Heathkits. I have an uncle that used to travel
as
part of his job, and when he'd pass through or be on vacation, he'd come
out
and visit, and drop off the order slip from a Heath catalog and an envelop ful
l of money at the neighbor's house. He would pick a kit or kits to
built,
then buy them direct through our neighbor. he had a complete stereo purchased as bags of parts and a stripped chassis, and he also had terst equipment he built such as an oscilloscope and frequency generator, which came in handy building the stereo receiver. Their early computer kits
were th
rough hole, but later on when the laptop kits came out, everything was surface mount, so a kit consisted of finished boards that needed to be dropped in and connected in the chasis. It wasn't the same learning experience, however the level of dificulty due to lack of tools to work on an
SMT board justified the decision.
---
Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
HusTler wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
If you'd done a little more research you'd see that you can upgrade
Windows 10 S with a couple of clicks.
The point is Microsoft holds the user hostage right out of the box.
Thank goodness I use linux so playing the microsoft game is no longer
an issue for me. I'm just happy I didn't buy one of these Windows 10S machines.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to HusTler on Wed Nov 25 2020 08:05 am
If you'd done a little more research you'd see that you can upgrade
Windows 10 S with a couple of clicks.
The point is Microsoft holds the user hostage right out of the box. Thank goodness I use linux so playing the microsoft game is no longer an issue for me. I'm just happy I didn't buy one of these Windows 10S machines.
another thing is you need to realize that microsoft doesn't manufacture desktop computers. ---
I like browser extensions, but I prefer solutions that are network wide.
An intercepting proxy does wonders and you don't need to configure every browser in your network. This is specially important if your family won't let you touch their devices, but you NEED to kill their advertisements because your
bandwidth SUCKS.
An intercepting DNS server in your LAN is handy for pretty much the same reason.
Browser extensions rock when you only want to cover your browsers, but when you
want to cover 10 it becomes a bit less handy imo.
That's true, and it's a good point. I wasn't trying to sound complaining of >> first-world problem, as I totally agree and think it's a bit of a waste of >> bandwidth. I have an ad blocker I use in my web browser, but the ads are st >> downloaded even if they aren't being displayed.
Hmmm... well the whole point of ad blockers is that they detect the http query
for the advertisement and prevent the browser from doing it, at least for most
common ads.
Proxies and DNS blacklists hijack the query and respond with a "this resource does not exist" signal, so the advertisement is never downloaded in the first place.
I'll tell you what. I've been doing a lot of research on new laptops.
What's this Windows 10 S shit? Or Some call it Windows 10 in S mode. I
almost fell for it. It's bullshit.
No, it's a way to lower prices on Windows licenses for low-cost
systems and to simplify operation and increase security for
non-techie users (who shouldn't be installing software on their own anyways...)
If you buy a PC with this S mode you can only install software from
Windows store. Apparently Microsoft is still at it. I friekin hate
that company!
If you'd done a little more research you'd see that you can upgrade
Windows 10 S with a couple of clicks.
When OS/2 started to get bigger, Microsoft (Gates), was STILL a viable player, and still had a large share of the PC OS marketshare.
...
long story short. He told vendors that anyone that offered OS/2 as a
optional install on their computers, he would make them pay more per
OEM license. Most of the major computer companies caved. That's what
killed OS/2. OS/2 was a superior OS at the time (that Gates was the
one that made it FOR IBM). OS/2 Warp 2.0 and Windows NT 3.0 were pretty
much the same.
The reason why Windows XP was so 'shitty' it was a total
rewrite because IBM and Microsoft were in a Antitrust lawsuit...
I LOVED MACDONALDS! I lived off of it in my single drinkin dayz! Jack'n
the Box ran a close second cause they were open all night. Macdonalds
closed at 11:00PM back then or maybe it was 10?. Jacks had great Onion
rings too! YUM! I still love Macdonalds! ;-)
Jack in the Box is one of the things I miss about the west coast. Them and In-N-Out. And yes, I have to agree with you about Jacks rings. Another I miss is the mashed potatoe fries they used to have at Carl's Jr. Those things were da bomb. McD's if ok when your drunk or on a tight budget, but I certainly wouldn't classify them as a "good" burger.
I think the burger I miss the most from L.A. though is Tommy's. Their nice greasy chili burger was the absolute best.
The point is Microsoft holds the user hostage right out of the box.
no, you are missing the point about windows 10s. it's for fucking idiots wh would fuck up their computer with malware. that is why it's locked down lik that. it's for people that are better off using phones.
another thing is you need to realize that microsoft doesn't manufacture desktop computers. ---
Hey. I just bought a new laptop with Windows 10 Home. I'm just glad I did the research before I made a purchase. I use software I can't get from Microsoft and I would have been pissed if I could only DL from Microsoft.
The audio software I use is not available for linux so I had to make a choice. I'm going to end up dual booting anyway. After 30 years of computing I'm still dealing with the Microsoft monopoly. It sux!
i bought my laptop, and it originally said it could only install apps from the store, but asked if i wanted to turn that feature off. i said yes!Hey. I just bought a new laptop
with Windows 10 Home. I'm just glad
I did the research before I made a
purchase. I use software I can't
The audio software I use is not available for linux so I had to make
a choice. I'm going to end up dual booting anyway. After 30 years of
computing I'm still dealing with the Microsoft monopoly. It sux!
i dont think there's any monopoly. there's other things out there to run.
Another I miss is the mashed potatoe fries they used to have at Carl's
Jr. Those things were da bomb. McD's if ok when your drunk or on a
Don't remember the mashed potato fries at Carl's/Hardee's myself.
i dont think you would have even ran into a computer with windows 10S on
it.
what audio software are you talking about? there's probably a linux alternative. ---
i bought my laptop, and it originally said it could only install apps from t store, but asked if i wanted to turn that feature off. i said yes! John
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to HusTler on Sat Nov 28 2020 12:03 pm
i dont think you would have even ran into a computer with windows 10S
on it.
All of the lower priced laptops come with 10 S
I think the options for alternative operating systems are better today then they have been in a long time. Microsoft does still own much of corporate America. Plus all the web-based offerings from Google and others is better then it's ever been.
where are you looking at? i looked on best buy and the cheap stuff are chromebooks. ---
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Bob Roberts to MRO on Sat Nov 28 2020 10:46 am
I think the options for alternative operating systems are better today then they have been in a long time. Microsoft does still own much of corporate America. Plus all the web-based offerings from Google and oth is better then it's ever been.
I feel like it's apples & oranges these days. We have Android OS and iOS, b those are pretty much stuck to being used on Android and Apple mobile device Some older operating systems aren't being developed anymore. I think BeOS h promise. Haiku OS is an open-source replacement for BeOS, but I don't think development is quite up to the level of BeOS, though it seems to be fairly usable. There's also ReactOS, but I think it's still not fully stable/usabl either. Aside from Windows and Linux, I'm not sure what other production-re operating systems are available for PCs these days.
Nightfox
HusTler wrote to MRO <=-
Hey. I just bought a new laptop with Windows 10 Home. I'm just glad I did the research before I made a purchase.
I use software I can't get
from Microsoft and I would have been pissed if I could only DL from Microsoft. The audio software I use is not available for linux so I had
to make a choice.
I'm going to end up dual booting anyway. After 30
years of computing I'm still dealing with the Microsoft monopoly. It
sux!
HusTler wrote to MRO <=-
I shop on e-bay and Amazon. Shopping for laptops can make you dizzy.
I went with a Lenovo Ideapad. I got it from someone that bought it new
in August 2020. It's a discontinued 2019 model. I couldnt pass up the price. ($290). It has a 3.0 Ghz processor and terabyte HD with 250G
SSD and 4G of Ram expandable to 8G. 15 inch screen with DVD. It has Windows Home installed on it. I was going to go with a $260 refurb but decided to take this one. I hope I made the right decision. I think
I'll be OK as long as I don't spill coffee on it.
I feel like it's apples & oranges these days. We have Android OS and iOS, but those are pretty much stuck to being used on Android and Apple mobile devices. Some older operating systems aren't being developed anymore. I think BeOS had promise. Haiku OS is an open-source replacement for BeOS, but I don't think development is quite up to the level of BeOS, though it seems to be fairly usable. There's also ReactOS, but I think it's still not fully stable/usable either. Aside from Windows and Linux, I'm not sure what other production-ready operating systems are available for PCs these days.
FreeBSD counts for production ready in my book. It is not mass market, though.
Don't remember the mashed potato fries at Carl's/Hardee's myself.
I call them "Mashed Potatoe" fries because they were made on site from pellets
that were dumped into the top of a machine that them did something to the pellets inside the machine and extruded the crinkle fry shapes before going into the frier. They are by FAR the best plain fries I've EVER had. This was
back BEFORE Carl's Jr bought out Hardees. Late 70's early/mid 80's.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: HusTler to Arelor on Tue Nov 17 2020 20:44:28
Synchronet or any other BBS software. Its "P" for post a message and "R" to reply. Oh and "D" for download. How hard is that?
Actually, On Syncronet 'R' is Re-read the message, and 'A' is Reply. So in that respect Mystic is more logical with 'R' for Reply and 'A' for Read 'A'gain.
Dumas Walker wrote to MRO <=-round
i thought it was more of a business deal. they gave it for free when the other
guys wanted money for their oses to go on the ibm compat computers.
microsoft wasnt always a heavy hitter and they couldnt threaten anybody
hat period of time.
I never heard of the "you cannot buy a pc without a windows license"
until about the time Win95 came out. I never heard of them doing that with MS-DOS but they might have I would not have known.
I don't recall bying WIndows till laptops won over custom build desktop PCs around 2005 or so and OEM was already packed in.
hollowone wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
I don't recall bying WIndows till laptops won over custom build desktop PCs around 2005 or so and OEM was already packed in.
I bought a couple of Windows 8.1 licenses for $25 each, a year of pF> Office365 for $49.99, and an awesome Microsoft logo mug that was stolen pF> off of my desk in under a week.
Warpslide wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It's included with a lot of business O365 subscriptions & volume
license agreements. Up until recently you could buy a stand-alone copy
of Office 2019 for ~$20 (one time fee, not a subscription) for both Windows & Mac.
They've since removed those in favour of discounted Office 365 subscriptions.
Check out:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/home-use-program
On 12-10-20 21:37, capn jax wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Have you thought of trying "Open Office" v4.1.5 or thereabouts as a
free download.
capn jax wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Have you thought of trying "Open Office" v4.1.5 or thereabouts as a
free download.
Vk3jed wrote to capn jax <=-
Always an option and 99% likely to work for most people. I was the 1%
at one stage, and subscribed to Office365, because I had at least one
Word document that I needed to edit, which wouldn't format properly in anything but Microsoft Word (any version newer than the one used to
create the original).
I've used OpenOffice (and Libreoffice since the Oracle acquisition)
on and off for years. While I've used Microsoft apps primarily at
work since before it was Office (Word and Excel for OS/2!), at home
I'm tempted to go Linux/G Suite and Open Office.
On 12-12-20 07:12, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I find Libreoffice refreshing - I like old-fashioned toolbars,
although with the new search feature in Office 365 you almost don't
need a toolbar/ribbon at all. I find myself using the search feature almost exclusively rather then hunting down an option, especially in Excel.
On 12-12-20 07:12, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I find Libreoffice refreshing - I like old-fashioned toolbars,
I do too, and LibreOffice has always been good. It's just the compatibility issue I've previously mentioned that forced me to switch to Office365.
although with the new search feature in Office 365 you almost don't need a toolbar/ribbon at all. I find myself using the search feature almost exclusively rather then hunting down an option, especially in Excel.
I haven't played with search much at all.
... The tuna doesn't taste the same without the dolphin.I generally like Libreoffice but its biggest failings are excel macro support and dealing with complicated formatting in Word docs (e.g. resumes). It has some really great conversion capabilities baked in which you can use to bulk convert documents between formats using shell scripts.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
þ Synchronet þ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
I have been using LibreOffice exclusively nearly since it became a thing. OpenOffice used to be too sluggish for my taste.
I don't miss MS Office, specially since latter versions have overhauled the UI so much. The main advantage of MS Office is intercompatibility with other people who also runs MS Office, but I discovered in college that people who runs MS Office also has issues when sharing files with users of other versions of MS Office, which I always found to be a bumer.
On 12-17-20 04:50, Phaelar wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I generally like Libreoffice but its biggest failings are excel macro support and dealing with complicated formatting in Word docs (e.g.
resumes). It has some really great conversion capabilities baked in
which you can use to bulk convert documents between formats using shell scripts.
Have you thought of trying "Open Office" v4.1.5 or thereabouts as a free download.
MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to CAPN JAX <=-down
Have you thought of trying "Open Office" v4.1.5 or thereabouts as a free
load.
I am thinking about making my old i5-2410 laptop run on Ubuntu. Put
Open Office, SyncTerm, Multimail and all the other good stuff.
I've mentioned Lubuntu before - if your laptop is low on memory it
might be a good fit. Lubuntu is Ubuntu with a lightweight window
environment and smaller, lighter apps compared to Ubuntu. It ran well
on a single-core Thinkpad with 2 GB of RAM, should run nicely if
Ubuntu feels pokey.
Mine has 8gb ram. But maybe Lubuntu may be a better fit.
I still use Lubuntu, even though I'm running on a "modern" laptop. I like th simple, no-frills UI, but it's still a capable system.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-
MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to CAPN JAX <=-
Have you thought of trying "Open Office" v4.1.5 or thereabouts as a free
down
load.
I am thinking about making my old i5-2410 laptop run on Ubuntu. Put
Open Office, SyncTerm, Multimail and all the other good stuff.
I used to do that to mimic a Windows laptop, but now I do most of my
home-based stuff in Google docs these days, and all I really need is
a browser and an OS to run it.
I've mentioned Lubuntu before - if your laptop is low on memory it
might be a good fit. Lubuntu is Ubuntu with a lightweight window
environment and smaller, lighter apps compared to Ubuntu. It ran well
on a single-core Thinkpad with 2 GB of RAM, should run nicely if
Ubuntu feels pokey.
Atroxi wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I've mentioned Lubuntu before - if your laptop is low on memory it
might be a good fit. Lubuntu is Ubuntu with a lightweight window
environment and smaller, lighter apps compared to Ubuntu. It ran well
on a single-core Thinkpad with 2 GB of RAM, should run nicely if
Ubuntu feels pokey.
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is
currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like
Debian Testing.
I've mentioned Lubuntu before - if your laptop is low on memory it
might be a good fit. Lubuntu is Ubuntu with a lightweight window environment and smaller, lighter apps compared to Ubuntu. It ran well
on a single-core Thinkpad with 2 GB of RAM, should run nicely if
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is
currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like
HusTler wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Atroxi on Mon Dec 21 2020 08:17 am
I've mentioned Lubuntu before - if your laptop is low on memory it
might be a good fit. Lubuntu is Ubuntu with a lightweight window environment and smaller, lighter apps compared to Ubuntu. It ran well
on a single-core Thinkpad with 2 GB of RAM, should run nicely if
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is
currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like
You can run other desktop environments with Lubuntu. I use
cinammon, Mate, and Lubuntu desktop.
Gamgee wrote to Atroxi <=-
Lubuntu now uses the LXQt desktop, which is a result of the original
LXDE moving away from GTK and going to the Qt interface. Haven't used
it but it should still be a fairly "light" desktop environment.
HusTler wrote to Gamgee <=-
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is
currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like
You can run other desktop environments with Lubuntu. I use cinammon, Mate, and Lubuntu desktop.
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like Debian Testing.Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas Eve
I don't miss MS Office, specially since latter versions have overhauled the UI so much. The main advantage of MS Office is intercompatibility with other people who also runs MS Office, but I discovered in college that people who runs MS Office also has issues when sharing files with users of other versions of MS Office, which I always found to be a bumer.
I use LibreOffice but I don't like it. Not really. I've got an old thinkpad I'm working on getting more comfortable in Terminal based minimal software, but I haven't touched it since the release of the big game.
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas Eve
i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-
Lubuntu now uses the LXQt desktop, which is a result of the original
LXDE moving away from GTK and going to the Qt interface. Haven't used
it but it should still be a fairly "light" desktop environment.
I should take another look - I tried updating my old VM that had
LXDE on it to the newer LXQt version and the UI was tweaked. I should
try from scratch.
MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to ATROXI <=-
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like Debian Testing.
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas
Eve i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
paulie420 wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas Eve
i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
I really dig Kubuntu and its been a daily driver on ALL my
Laptops for a few years. I did just switch one over to Manjaro
and am really liking the AUR. [The community has a 'repository'
of almost every app that ISN'T in the standard repo's... like
syncterm, ansilove, and a mountain of others.] But for Ubuntu,
which served me really well for learning Linux... you can't go
wrong with Kubuntu.
With the latest versions of Office, they've done a great job of allowing multiple people work on the same document simultaneously. There are some
Well..... assuming you can stand KDE, maybe. ;-)
Personally I avoid that like the plague.
Xubuntu would be my choice in the *buntu world.
Dude, I DO love KDE... but I just recently designed an all-out graphic/resource heavy DE... totally stupid. Like 3.5G RAM. So... maybe I need to take a step back, and let go of some transparent,bouncy,zoomy,htoppy,STUFF. Ugh.
It looks so awesome tho!!!
I'm not sure how well that would work.. For example, someone writing the first page and another person writing the second page?
of a scenario where it even makes sense for more than one person to be working on a document at the same time. Unless multiple people are just reviewing a document and making comments?
I'm not sure how well that would work.. For example, someone writing
the first page and another person writing the second page?
Think of an IT asset inventory spreadsheet where people in different offices are updating rows with new inventory information, updating fields as hardware changes hands, etc...
We replaced all manner of ill-behaving asset databases with an Excel spreadsheet in the cloud. For our intents and purposes, it worked great.
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas
Eve i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
Kubuntu would be a long ways from a "light" desktop environment since
it uses KDE...
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dream Master to Vlk-451 on Tue Dec 22 2020 10:08 pm
With the latest versions of Office, they've done a great job of allowin multiple people work on the same document simultaneously. There are som
I'm not sure how well that would work.. For example, someone writing the fi page and another person writing the second page? I'm trying to think of a scenario where it even makes sense for more than one person to be working on document at the same time. Unless multiple people are just reviewing a document and making comments?
Nightfox
Have you thought of trying "Open Office" v4.1.5 or thereabouts as a free download.
I am thinking about making my old i5-2410 laptop run on Ubuntu. Put Open Office, SyncTerm, Multimail and all the other good stuff.
Mine has 8gb ram. But maybe Lubuntu may be a better fit.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sat Dec 19 2020 10:54 pm
I still use Lubuntu, even though I'm running on a "modern" laptop. I like th simple, no-frills UI, but it's still a capable system.
Ditto here. I've checked out many Linux flavors but Lubuntu gets the nod. If I want some eye candy I just run the cinnamon desktop.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-
MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to CAPN JAX <=-
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like Debian Testing.
... Maybe? Maybe not. Maybe? Maybe not. Maybe? Maybe not. Maybe? Maybe not. Mayb
Doesn't that run KDE?I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like Debian Testing.Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas Eve
i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vlk-451 to Arelor on Fri Dec 18 2020 09:14 am
I don't miss MS Office, specially since latter versions have overhauled the UI so much. The main advantage of MS Office is intercompatibility with other people who also runs MS Office, but I discovered in college that people who runs MS Office also has issues when sharing files with users of other versions of MS Office, which I always found to be a bumer.
I use LibreOffice but I don't like it. Not really. I've got an old thinkpad I'm working on getting more comfortable in Terminal based minimal software, but I haven't touched it since the release of the big game.
With the latest versions of Office, they've done a great job of allowing multiple people work on the same document simultaneously. There are some disadvantages to this but they are far and few between. With the additonal integration of versioning, moving away from Office is quite difficult.
Dream Master
MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to ATROXI <=-
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is currently unmaintained. Perhaps Xubuntu or something else like Debian Testing.
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas Eve
i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas Eve i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
I really dig Kubuntu and its been a daily driver on ALL my Laptops for a few years. I did just switch one over to Manjaro and am really liking the AUR. [The community has a 'repository' of almost every app that ISN'T in the standard repo's... like syncterm, ansilove, and a mountain of others.] But for Ubuntu, which served me really well for learning Linux... you can't go wrong with Kubuntu.
Like 3.5G RAM.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed Dec 23 2020 07:57 am
Perhaps Kubuntu might be my alternative. Perhaps during Christmas
Eve i'll be installing Kubuntu on my 2011 Samsung laptop.
Kubuntu would be a long ways from a "light" desktop environment since it uses KDE...
On my VPS's I like to run LXDE, It's Lubuntu with a minimal environment. works great for running my game servers.
At the rate I'm going, every machine I touch is gonna end up being a bootloader for EMACS.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vlk-451 to Dream Master on Sat Dec 26 2020 11:11 pm
At the rate I'm going, every machine I touch is gonna end up being a bootloader for EMACS.
I'd live in an alternate cyberpunk universe, where instead of Chromebooks we all used inexpensive EMACS Decks.
I've been thinking about building 1L office PCs and SBCs into Unicomp keyboards and adding a few cosmetic flairs, marketing them as Cyberdecks.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Vlk-451 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Dec 27 2020 06:33 pm
I've been thinking about building 1L office PCs and SBCs into Unicomp keyboards and adding a few cosmetic flairs, marketing them as Cyberdecks.
Hackaday has articles with user-submitted cyberspace deck prototypes. Most of them revolve around a mechanical keyboard, SBC and a small flip-up screen.
I think Lubuntu would be an ill choice as I believe LXDE is
Lubuntu now uses the LXQt desktop, which is a result of the original
LXDE moving away from GTK and going to the Qt interface. Haven't used
it but it should still be a fairly "light" desktop environment.
BBSes are still, to me, long-form media. After seeing some of the experiments with Telegram integration into Fidonet, I'm leaning the opposite direction. I like having a place where I can thoughtfully
type a response into a real keyboard, not compose a 140 character
response onto a touch screen.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: poindexter FORTRAN to HusTler on Mon Nov 16 2020 06:55 am
BBSes are still, to me, long-form media. After seeing
some of the experiments with Telegram integration into
Fidonet, I'm leaning the opposite direction. I like
having a place where I can thoughtfully type a response
into a real keyboard, not compose a 140 character
response onto a touch screen.
I would have to agree with you on all these points,
actually.
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