• Our Brave New World

    From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to All on Sunday, January 10, 2021 00:33:43
    Hello all. I am relatively new here. I fiddled with BBS's 10 years ago, but am ¨finding myself drawn back in. Although I was not involved in the Capitol ¨events the other day, I found them interesting. I consider myself politically ¨dissident, and the wave of , what many call "anarcho-tyranny", censorship ¨moves, brought me back here. Where do you all see this going? The fact that ¨Twitter can deplatform the POTUS, whether you like him, or hate him as a ¨grifter, in coordination with Apple and Google taking down his access to ¨alternative applications, is very very concerning. I'd like to make note, I am ¨not a Trump person, despite having supported him in 2016. My position is ¨irrelevant here, either way.
    I think we are on the precipice of something that Orwell would have never ¨seen coming. The system seems poised to pounce on anybody that deviates from ¨the overton window. They no longer have to lock you up to silence you. Just ¨ban you from all platforms. I think BBS and IRC's decentralized nature are ¨going to see these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Brandoniusrex on Sunday, January 10, 2021 04:37:44
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to All on Sun Jan 10 2021 12:33 am

    I think we are on the precipice of something that Orwell would have never ¨seen coming. The system seems poised to pounce on anybody that deviates fr ¨the overton window. They no longer have to lock you up to silence you. Jus ¨ban you from all platforms. I think BBS and IRC's decentralized nature are ¨going to see these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?


    I am a big fan of censorship resistent tech, but let's be honest, you cannot expect a technological feature to solve a problem that is political in nature.

    If you are into decentralized tech, you may also want to have a look at Retroshare (which can be made to work in the i2p darknet), and XMPP.

    I've been warning that turning big unaccountable silos into the main social media platforms of the world would bit us in the ass, but nobody ever listened hahaha

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BRANDONIUSREX on Sunday, January 10, 2021 11:27:00
    nt, and the wave of , what many call "anarcho-tyranny", censorship ¨moves, brou
    ht me back here. Where do you all see this going? The fact that ¨Twitter can de
    latform the POTUS, whether you like him, or hate him as a ¨grifter, in coordina
    ion with Apple and Google taking down his access to ¨alternative applications, >s very very concerning.
    I think we are on the precipice of something that Orwell would have never ¨seen
    coming. The system seems poised to pounce on anybody that deviates from ¨the ov
    erton window. They no longer have to lock you up to silence you. Just ¨ban you >rom all platforms. I think BBS and IRC's decentralized nature are ¨going to see
    these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?

    Apple and Google are also going after Parlor because Parlor allows people they want censored to have another social media outlet. Eliminating competition
    in the name of keeping the bad people quiet is convenient.

    In China, both companies actively assist the totalitarian regime in spying on/censoring their citizens, so they have plenty of practice.

    The BBS world is probably too "past technology" for most, and isn't (yet) as mobile device friendly. However, BBSing might be one technology that
    wouldn't be as easy for the tech companies to censor. I suspect that most folks who are worried about censorship are probably doing their
    communications over the "dark web" where big tech companies don't have such influence.

    As I pointed out previously, I do think it is odd they waited to start censoring him AFTER he started posting asking people to stop the violence, cooperate with authorities, etc. As someone else pointed out, it is likely
    a move to make sure he goes out in disgrace.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Tongue-tied & twisted, just an Earth-bound misfit, I!

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Sunday, January 10, 2021 11:29:00
    I've been warning that turning big unaccountable silos into the main social media platforms of the world would bit us in the ass, but nobody ever listened
    hahaha

    A lot of people have been. The fact that they are all mobile-friendly and
    that most people are sheep = most people probably don't care. :(


    * SLMR 2.1a * Come in Number 51, Your Time Is Up!

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From jimmylogan@VERT/OTHETA to Brandoniusrex on Sunday, January 10, 2021 15:00:00
    Brandoniusrex wrote to All <=-

    I think we are on the precipice of something that Orwell would have
    never seen coming. The system seems poised to pounce on anybody that deviates from the overton window. They no longer have to lock you up to silence you. Just ban you from all platforms. I think BBS and IRC's decentralized nature are going to see these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?

    Interesting. I don't see BBS's hitting mainstream simply because they
    are 'hobby' based. If there were an easy way for people to get to
    message bases, maybe, but they have that now with different platforms
    and such, but the "big three" have a monopoly of sorts, so it would
    be hard to break through I think...




    ... Tagline II: The Sequel.
    ___ MultiMail/Mac v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/01/05 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Omicron Theta * Horn Lake MS * linux.winserver.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Brandoniusrex on Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:18:00
    Brandoniusrex wrote to All <=-

    to silence you. Just ģban you from all platforms. I think BBS and IRC's decentralized nature are ģgoing to see these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?

    There are some interesting inroads to increase the privacy of BBSes, like people using VPNs between BBSes (zeronet?) and using BINKP with TLS. I think Synchronet IRC can use TLS now, too.

    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes is for one networked board
    to allow read access to networked areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy
    of the entire net.



    ... Wait, this is a *scene*?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:19:00
    Arelor wrote to Brandoniusrex <=-

    I've been warning that turning big unaccountable silos into the main social media platforms of the world would bit us in the ass, but nobody ever listened hahaha

    Paraphrasing Jaron Lanier, "If two people wish to communicate with each
    other, they should be able to do so on a system that doesn't benefit financially from manipulating human behavior..."


    ... Wait, this is a *scene*?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Barmed@VERT/OASISBBS to Dumas Walker on Sunday, January 10, 2021 16:18:00
    On 10 Jan 2021, Dumas Walker said the following...

    The BBS world is probably too "past technology" for most, and isn't
    (yet) as mobile device friendly. However, BBSing might be one
    technology that wouldn't be as easy for the tech companies to censor. I suspect that most folks who are worried about censorship are probably doing their communications over the "dark web" where big tech companies don't have such influence.


    There are a couple of point system apps on Android, at keast. I'm not sure about Apple products.

    Telnet is possible as well.

    And with a bit of work, itps actually possible to run a BBS on an Andoud
    device through Termux.

    Granted, all of those options take a bit of work to set up and run, but the concept is there. They just aren't "pretty" like other options.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to jimmylogan on Sunday, January 10, 2021 16:25:22
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: jimmylogan to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 03:00 pm

    Interesting. I don't see BBS's hitting mainstream simply because they
    are 'hobby' based. If there were an easy way for people to get to
    message bases, maybe, but they have that now with different platforms
    and such, but the "big three" have a monopoly of sorts, so it would
    be hard to break through I think...


    probably the only thing that would bring bbses back would be if the govts went all china style with the censorship. then we would be an underground club.

    a few bbs softwares do have their msg bases on the web and some of them arent locked down so anybody can read them.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 10, 2021 16:26:56
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 10:18 am

    people using VPNs between BBSes (zeronet?) and using BINKP with TLS. I

    what do you mean zeronet? zeronet is just a msg network.
    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes is for one networked board to allow read access to networked areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy of the entire net.

    yeah thats happened a lot. i've read the sysop areas of fidonet when i wasnt a member. some clowns dont configure it correctly.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 10, 2021 16:38:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Brandoniusrex <=-

    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN
    network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes
    is for one networked board to allow read access to networked
    areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy of the entire net.

    Hasn't this already been happening for a long time? Every BBS that
    has a web interface is allowing that right now, AFAICT.

    One of the several reasons my board doesn't have that "feature"
    enabled.



    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 10, 2021 17:00:51
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 10:18 am

    Brandoniusrex wrote to All <=-

    to silence you. Just ģban you from all platforms. I think BBS and IRC decentralized nature are ģgoing to see these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?

    There are some interesting inroads to increase the privacy of BBSes, like people using VPNs between BBSes (zeronet?) and using BINKP with TLS. I think Synchronet IRC can use TLS now, too.

    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes is for one networked board to allow read access to networked areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy of the entire net.



    ... Wait, this is a *scene*?

    I keep hearing of people experimenting with i2p and tor interfaces for their BBS, which is nice.

    FTN networks are not supposed to be "private". There is nothing in its design that ensures your messages are confidencial once they leave the node you posted them on. If you want that sort of confidentiality you need something more in the line of Retroshare.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to Arelor on Sunday, January 10, 2021 13:22:16
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 04:37 am

    I've been warning that turning big unaccountable silos into the main social media platforms of the world would bit us in the ass, but nobody ever listen hahaha

    Ditto that, I started talking that way over a decade ago.
    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this out again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    When society changes what is/isn't acceptable to adapt to their own political agendas on a daily basis, this experiment doesn't work.

    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo
    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]:+=-

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 10, 2021 23:15:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Brandoniusrex <=-

    Brandoniusrex wrote to All <=-

    to silence you. Just oban you from all platforms. I think BBS and IRC's decentralized nature are ogoing to see these platforms explode in popularity soon. Thoughts?

    There are some interesting inroads to increase the privacy of BBSes,
    like people using VPNs between BBSes (zeronet?) and using BINKP with
    TLS. I think Synchronet IRC can use TLS now, too.

    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes is for one
    networked board to allow read access to networked areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy of the entire net.


    I don't like the "leakage" either. One of the big drawcards for a BBS is the potential of it being limited only to those who participate, but I've seen Fidonet threads on the Internet and searchable, and as Fidonet requires a real name, it very uncomfortable to talk politics or ideas on there. That one has to feel uncomfortable itself says a lot.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Zombie Mambo on Sunday, January 10, 2021 22:35:52
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 04:37 am

    I've been warning that turning big unaccountable silos into the main soci media platforms of the world would bit us in the ***, but nobody ever lis hahaha

    Ditto that, I started talking that way over a decade ago.
    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, an others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/f people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this out again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    When society changes what is/isn't acceptable to adapt to their own politica agendas on a daily basis, this experiment doesn't work.

    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo
    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]:+=-

    There is a grand delusion that "First amendment protections apply only to ¨government, and if you don't like this sort of distributed anarchotyranny ¨censorship, build a new platform" on the right. Then, when they do, it just ¨gets banned off of devices. Then it will be "Just build a new phone company ¨and OS!". Then when Amazon bans them from the cloud that's needed for a site ¨of that scope, it's "well build your own cloud server farm.". Then it will be ¨"Well build your own internet!" at some point. This notion that Platforms can ¨do whatever they want and censor whomever just because they're not a ¨government HAS to end, or the very fabric of our society is going to crumble ¨and devolve to violent action of disenfranchised people striving to be heard. ¨That's not the future I want. But, apparently, it's the future governments ¨want. I've been screaming this from the rooftops for years, but, everybody is ¨too glued into their smartphones to see the writing on the wall... The peace ¨we've seen for decades is an anomaly. And one that we may sadly see completely ¨squashed through technocratic distributed censorship. All while the "left", ¨"critical" of big Capital, cheers it on every step of the way. Ironic, isn't ¨it?

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Brandoniusrex on Monday, January 11, 2021 04:09:27
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to Zombie Mambo on Sun Jan 10 2021 10:35 pm

    There is a grand delusion that "First amendment protections apply only to ¨government, and if you don't like this sort of distributed anarchotyranny ¨censorship, build a new platform" on the right. Then, when they do, it jus ¨gets banned off of devices. Then it will be "Just build a new phone compan ¨and OS!". Then when Amazon bans them from the cloud that's needed for a si ¨of that scope, it's "well build your own cloud server farm.". Then it will ¨"Well build your own internet!" at some point. This notion that Platforms ¨do whatever they want and censor whomever just because they're not a ¨government HAS to end, or the very fabric of our society is going to crumb ¨and devolve to violent action of disenfranchised people striving to be hea ¨That's not the future I want. But, apparently, it's the future governments ¨want. I've been screaming this from the rooftops for years, but, everybody ¨too glued into their smartphones to see the writing on the wall... The pea ¨we've seen for decades is an anomaly. And one that we may sadly see comple ¨squashed through technocratic distributed censorship. All while the "left" ¨"critical" of big Capital, cheers it on every step of the way. Ironic, isn ¨it?

    I am hopeful in this regard because they haven't managed to destroy a lot of deeply hated (by infrastructure providers) sites. Including The Pirate Bay.

    They can't really deplatform you from the Internet completely without some sort of gov action afaik. AS numbers are assigned via a conssortium-like internet task force and there are domain names for the grab that fall under the control of some gov managed TDL. I suppose ISP providers could refuse to link to your Autonomous Zones but afaik there are rules against refusing linkage in some countries.

    For evil actors, it is easier to bribe Google into not listing your website in their search results, than trying to deplatform you completely. Or just accuse you of some bullshit charge and threaten to make you waste $$$$$ in useless court cases unless you remove yourself from the Internet.

    Internet is a federated network. Federated networks regard obstacles to the flow of information as damage and route around them.

    That said, this trend we see is quite disturbing. We have a very powerful SJW crowd that is heavily bent in isolating everybody else from any market - ie if your videogame is no SJW enough they will campaign against you. Meanwhile, regular people is still purchasing services from the very entities that are trying to isolate them, giving them more money that will be used against them. The Apple/Google/Twitter/Amazon cases are just the tip of the iceberg.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to jimmylogan on Monday, January 11, 2021 07:55:11
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: jimmylogan to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 03:00 pm

    Interesting. I don't see BBS's hitting mainstream simply because they
    are 'hobby' based. If there were an easy way for people to get to
    message bases, maybe, but they have that now with different platforms
    and such, but the "big three" have a monopoly of sorts, so it would
    be hard to break through I think...

    BBS's will never be "mainstream" because there are no ads. Years ago some SysOps charged for their services and even that didn't work out. So yea, BBSing is a hobby because money isn't involved. If users would take the time to learn how to use a BBS I suspect they would be used more.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Gamgee on Monday, January 11, 2021 07:44:00
    Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Brandoniusrex <=-

    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN
    network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes
    is for one networked board to allow read access to networked
    areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy of the entire net.

    Hasn't this already been happening for a long time? Every BBS that
    has a web interface is allowing that right now, AFAICT.

    Not everyone, but there's a lot of them.

    One of the several reasons my board doesn't have that "feature"
    enabled.

    There's a simple trick with Synchronet - whatever access the guest user has
    is what unauthenticated web users will see. If you're not logged in to my
    BBS, all you see are the sysop and local general boards.


    ... Towards the insignificant
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Clover@VERT/MUTINY to All on Monday, January 11, 2021 07:43:11
    I would not like to see BBSs go mainstream. Once something goes mainstream large corporate conglomerates find a way to bastardize it.
    I also would not like to see BBBs be any more mobile friendly then they are now. The way I see it where there was once the one world labeled "cyberspace" there is now two: The computing world and the mobile world.
    On mobile platforms it takes only a few seconds to glance at a post, judge it to be true, agree with it, and share it ... spreading it like a virus.
    If you have a thought, a wim, a complaint, you're just generally being a dick in the mobile world you can spread that hate in less than a minute.
    In the BBS world, if you can't hold that thought and care enough about it and think about it and analyze it long enough to get to a computer and log into a BBS to write about it then it's not worth writing about.
    BBSes are great today because they are not mobile friendly, they are not always "at our fingertips" and they are not on the radar of entities like Apple and Google.

    I have been thinking lately about the fact that we should probably try to have other networks besides the internet. I was thinking about all those modems lying around collecting dust or rotting in landfills and how for a breif period of time there were computer systems that were on the internet and those that weren't. Wouldn't it be great if you could set up a network of BBSes all over the world that didn't actually use the internet in any way? Well POTS (Plain old Telephone Systems) are all-but gone today and will be entirely gone soon so going back to how it was done in the 90's and before isn't really possible.
    And if you ask an enginner to come up with a network of BBSes today he's almost certainly end up using the internet in some way even if inadvertently (such as VoIP).

    However, ham radio is an option, except that only a small handfull of people would be able to set up something like that with the equipment, space (for antennas) and training (for liscening). Maybe something that used ham stations as a hub then something simplier for more local connections. Could you broadcast data over CB? is that allowed?

    Anyway I digress, I'm way off subject here. I've just been wondering if a group of people wanted to make a computer network entirely outside of the internet how would you go about it given what is available today?

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž MutinyBBS.com port 2332
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, January 11, 2021 12:20:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    The "leakage" of BBS content onto the web concerns me. A FTN
    network is only as secure as it's weakest link, and all it takes
    is for one networked board to allow read access to networked
    areas via HTTP to compromise the privacy of the entire net.

    Hasn't this already been happening for a long time? Every BBS that
    has a web interface is allowing that right now, AFAICT.

    Not everyone, but there's a lot of them.

    Hmmm, I guess you're right.

    One of the several reasons my board doesn't have that "feature"
    enabled.

    There's a simple trick with Synchronet - whatever access the
    guest user has is what unauthenticated web users will see. If
    you're not logged in to my BBS, all you see are the sysop and
    local general boards.

    I accessed your board via web, and yep sure enough it is as you say.
    Here's what's weird... I have a "test" (non-public) SBBS setup on a
    remote VPS... I enabled the web access on it, and from a browser I
    can see the Local and DoveNet boards. All stock/default settings.
    Pretty sure this is *NOT* using the ecweb4 version of web access,
    could that be the difference? Did the previous version (runemaster?)
    allow one to see the networked boards? This test BBS has a standard
    guest account with default settings.

    I also checked the complete list of "restriction" flags you can set on
    a user account, and there is no apparent restriction that would
    prevent a Guest user from seeing networked subs. There are several
    that will prevent them from posting to such, but not viewing. So it's
    unclear to me how a guest account keeps them from seeing that stuff.
    I realize that one could set the access requirements for each network
    to "NOT GUEST" or something, but it isn't that way by default. Just
    wondering out loud.... as I ponder adding web access to my system.

    Thanks for the info.



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Clover on Monday, January 11, 2021 13:02:31
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Clover to All on Mon Jan 11 2021 07:43 am

    Anyway I digress, I'm way off subject here. I've just been wondering if a group of people wanted to make a computer network entirely outside of the internet how would you go about it given what is available today?


    There is a group in SPain running a pseudo-ISP made up by volunteers. You can join free of cost as long as you bring your own equipment and allow other people to connect to the network through your access points. It is TCP/IP based, and since it has an exchange-point with an actual ISP somewhere, users get real Internet access if needed.

    Downside is you pay your anthenas and wires upfront.


    Then you could go the other way. Imagine you can have a BBS running in each village in a rural area, and a HAM operator in each. The village itself could be connecting to the BBS using TCP/IP and the BBSs could connect to each other via any of the available paket radio protocols.


    BBS could talk to each other using free bands (I am thinking LORA) or laser or whatever.


    The problem is, if you are up top the point when you have to set your own network, you are at the point when setting your own network is a felony and will get you raped by your Communists overlords or whatever.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to jimmylogan on Monday, January 11, 2021 11:57:23
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: jimmylogan to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 03:00 pm

    Interesting. I don't see BBS's hitting mainstream simply because they
    are 'hobby' based. If there were an easy way for people to get to
    message bases, maybe, but they have that now with different platforms
    and such, but the "big three" have a monopoly of sorts, so it would
    be hard to break through I think...

    As I've said before, I'd love to see BBSs make a comeback yet until we can find a way to bring them into the 20s (2020s that is), we will be stuck as a niche group. echicken's web front-end for Synchronet is pretty slick but, once again, it doesn't offer the luster of Facebook, Twitter, and the other platforms.

    Don't forget, back in the late 80s and early to mid 90s, there were BBSs that offered hundreds of nodes, internet connectivity, and had highly accessible and used message bases (hell, I ran one for a company between 1993 and 1995). Bringing some like this back into the mainstream would mean we have to create interfaces that non-technical users want--something that isn't very easy. Remember, we are all of a "more technical" breed of people, some of us are "older" and "wiser".

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Zombie Mambo on Monday, January 11, 2021 12:05:10
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this out again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply. A company has every right to stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms. 2nd Amendment, the right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office and see how quickly the police are called on you. 5th Amendment, self-incrimination. Your internet usage is fair game on their network.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms was a necessary evil. Is it their right, yes. A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to HusTler on Monday, January 11, 2021 12:09:25
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: HusTler to jimmylogan on Mon Jan 11 2021 07:55 am

    BBS's will never be "mainstream" because there are no ads. Years ago some SysOps charged for their services and even that didn't work out. So yea, BBSing is a hobby because money isn't involved. If users would take the time to learn how to use a BBS I suspect they would be used more.

    I disagree. Many large BBSs charged and they remained successful throughout the BBS era. Smaller systems that didn't offer the level of communication, messaging, games, etc., couldn't compete with the bigger systems that existed at the time. I ran a corporate BBS back in the 90s and we charged $15/mo, it had a couple thousand users, 250+ phone lines, access throughout the US and Canada, internet, and even *nix shell accounts. It was making money.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Monday, January 11, 2021 12:13:33
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:20 pm

    I also checked the complete list of "restriction" flags you can set on
    a user account, and there is no apparent restriction that would
    prevent a Guest user from seeing networked subs. There are several

    Reduce the Guest account from having the same level of access to message boards that your normal users would have access. For example, prevent the Guest account from being able to post messages (Restriction N) on networked sub-boards. Check out https://wiki.synchro.net/access:restrictions.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Barmed@VERT/OASISBBS to Clover on Monday, January 11, 2021 15:28:00
    On 11 Jan 2021, Clover said the following...
    I would not like to see BBSs go mainstream. Once something goes mainstream large corporate conglomerates find a way to bastardize it.
    I also would not like to see BBBs be any more mobile friendly then they are now. The way I see it where there was once the one world labeled "cyberspace" there is now two: The computing world and the mobile world. On mobile platforms it takes only a few seconds to glance at a post,
    judge it to be true, agree with it, and share it ... spreading it like a virus. If you have a thought, a wim, a complaint, you're just generally being a dick in the mobile world you can spread that hate in less than a minute. In the BBS world, if you can't hold that thought and care enough about it and think about it and analyze it long enough to get to a computer and log into a BBS to write about it then it's not worth
    writing about. BBSes are great today because they are not mobile
    friendly, they are not always "at our fingertips" and they are not on
    the radar of entities like Apple and Google.

    I can understand those thoughts, and in some instances I agree.

    However, there are Telnet apps on mobile devices, and a couple of point apps
    as well. It's not always pretty, but the ability to connect to BBS
    communities is there.

    I'm running this BBS on my phone in a Termux session. If I didn't tell you that, youpd likely not know it.

    While I agree that BBSes would suffer overall from too much access by the Like/Share crowd, I think that there is an audience out there in the mobile world that would be a good fit in this community.
    I have been thinking lately about the fact that we should probably try
    to have other networks besides the internet. I was thinking about all those modems lying around collecting dust or rotting in landfills and
    how for a breif period of time there were computer systems that were on the internet and those that weren't. Wouldn't it be great if you could set up a network of BBSes all over the world that didn't actually use
    the internet in any way? Well POTS (Plain old Telephone Systems) are all-but gone today and will be entirely gone soon so going back to how
    it was done in the 90's and before isn't really possible. And if you ask an enginner to come up with a network of BBSes today he's almost
    certainly end up using the internet in some way even if inadvertently (such as VoIP).

    However, ham radio is an option, except that only a small handfull of people would be able to set up something like that with the equipment, space (for antennas) and training (for liscening). Maybe something that used ham stations as a hub then something simplier for more local connections. Could you broadcast data over CB? is that allowed?

    I'm not sure about CB, but I do know that HAM works, but there are some areas in the world that packet radio is restricted/not allowed.

    Anyway I digress, I'm way off subject here. I've just been wondering if
    a group of people wanted to make a computer network entirely outside of the internet how would you go about it given what is available today?


    Along the lines of HAM, Satellite could be a possibility.

    But basically, the internet is just computers talking to each other. The Web
    is just a pretty graphical overlay over sections of it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Monday, January 11, 2021 17:42:05
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to HusTler on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:09 pm

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: HusTler to jimmylogan on Mon Jan 11 2021 07:55 am

    BBS's will never be "mainstream" because there are no ads. Years ago so SysOps charged for their services and even that didn't work out. So yea, BBSing is a hobby because money isn't involved. If users would take the t to learn how to use a BBS I suspect they would be used more.

    I disagree. Many large BBSs charged and they remained successful throughout the BBS era. Smaller systems that didn't offer the level of communication, messaging, games, etc., couldn't compete with the bigger systems that existe at the time. I ran a corporate BBS back in the 90s and we charged $15/mo, i had a couple thousand users, 250+ phone lines, access throughout the US and Canada, internet, and even *nix shell accounts. It was making money.

    Dream Master


    Bank in the day, computing was not regarded as a free commodity.

    Nowadays every Joe is offering free email with High Availability and spam control and whatever have you. Connectivity is plenty. Therefore most people does not buy email services for personal use. In fact, lots of small business buy no email services and use some freebie from Big Tech instead.

    Under these circumsptances, it is very hard to convince people that your service is worth paying. We have been culturally conditioned to believe that this stuff should be for free. It is not like we are in the times when they billed you by the minute and the fact you were connected to anything costed a emaningful ammount of money.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Monday, January 11, 2021 17:43:54
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Mon Jan 11 2021 05:42 pm

    That last message of mine was a typo orgy :-(

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Arelor on Monday, January 11, 2021 18:44:00
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Mon Jan 11 2021 05:42 pm

    Bank in the day, computing was not regarded as a free commodity.

    Without a doubt I agree with you. Even when running my own private multiline BBS as a teenager, I had to foot the bill for the phone lines, electricity, and maintenance/repair whenever something broke. Even though my users weren't charged for my personal services, I felt I was providing a public service to them and was willing to eat the cost (something like $150/mo back then).

    Nowadays every Joe is offering free email with High Availability and spam control and whatever have you. Connectivity is plenty. Therefore most people does not buy email services for personal use. In fact, lots of small business buy no email services and use some freebie from Big Tech instead.

    I've noticed that more and more companies are moving to E-Mail as a Service and dealing with the consequences of it. Look how O365 (or whatever Microsoft is calling it these days) went down multiple times last year. At my old company, I ran a fully redundant environment and kept it up with 99.95% availability. Microsoft, offering their services, can't even do that (plus, I think their SLAs are 99.5% last I checked). By moving these services to the "cloud" (don't get me started here), companies are reducing their reliance on tech-knowledge and instead looking to DevOps and SysOps trained people. I'm neither happy or sad about this but find that something is going to give eventually.

    Under these circumsptances, it is very hard to convince people that your service is worth paying. We have been culturally conditioned to believe that this stuff should be for free. It is not like we are in the times when they billed you by the minute and the fact you were connected to anything costed a emaningful ammount of money.

    Again, don't disagree at all. My youngest son asked me to setup a Minecraft environment for him so that he and about 20+ friends of his can play on it. I have no problem running it on AWS or even at home. If I run it at home, I'm making them chip in for the cost of a dedicated computer. When I said, "$20 per person," they all balked. So, instead, I'll create them an instance on AWS on a t2.medium or t2.large and they'll have to deal with some performance degredations. The cost to me, about $25 to $30/mo. It isn't a lot, but its still in the context of what you are saying...people want free and expect it that way.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Arelor on Monday, January 11, 2021 18:44:41
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Mon Jan 11 2021 05:43 pm

    That last message of mine was a typo orgy :-(

    It's all good. The content was fine and I made perfectly good sense of it.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dream Master on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 02:23:00
    Dream Master wrote to Zombie Mambo <=-

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this out again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It
    may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply. A company has every right to
    stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms. 2nd Amendment, the right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office
    and see how quickly the police are called on you. 5th Amendment, self-incrimination. Your internet usage is fair game on their network.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms
    was a necessary evil. Is it their right, yes. A business has every
    right to refuse service to anyone.

    When the constitution was written, these kinds of platforms did not exist. There was no need to consider the censorship that business might engage in because at the time no business was able to stifle your speech to any meaningful degree.

    The argument that free speech shouldn't be afforded in the corporate sphere is based on taking the 1st amendment in word, rather than in spirit. The purpose of free speech is that is helps ensure a peaceful and prosperous society, because we learned the hard way (through death and suffering) that justifications for limiting opinion and not allowing orthodoxy to be challenged was DANGEROUS.

    Free Speech concerns itself with the ABILITY to express an opinion, not about who is required not to stifle speech or not.

    So if we live in a world where the big business is effectively able to stifle discusion and enforce an ideological orthodoxy, then we are back in the dangerous territory that the 1st amendment was specifically written to avoid. It is therefore necessary to adapt, to ensure that there is realised free speech. The important question to ask here is, do citizens in a practical sense, have free speech? And if the answer is no, then we need to make changes so that we can again answer that in the affirmative.

    At the moment the USA does NOT have free speech because the mechanisms to censor exist. That they exist outside of the government is meaningless. They exist, that is enough to be a threat, and we need new laws to bring back free speech.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Monday, January 11, 2021 21:14:00
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I also checked the complete list of "restriction" flags you can set on
    a user account, and there is no apparent restriction that would
    prevent a Guest user from seeing networked subs. There are several

    Reduce the Guest account from having the same level of access to
    message boards that your normal users would have access.

    Yes, this is probably the issue. Right now the Guest acct has
    security level 50 which is the same as a regular user.

    example, prevent the Guest account from being able to post
    messages (Restriction N) on networked sub-boards. Check out https://wiki.synchro.net/access:restrictions.

    You snipped it out of my previous post there above (not sure why), but
    I already stated that there are several restrictions which would
    prevent posting to networked boards. That isn't the issue. The issue
    is preventing a Guest account from *SEEING* the networked boards, as
    the upstream thread was talking about.

    Thanks for the info, I bet if I set a different (lower) security level
    for the Guest as compared to Normal users, that will be the answer.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Monday, January 11, 2021 20:53:39
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Brandoniusrex on Mon Jan 11 2021 04:09 am

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to Zombie Mambo on Sun Jan 10 2021 10:35 pm

    There is a grand delusion that "First amendment protections apply only to ­government, and if you don't like this sort of distributed anarchotyrann ­censorship, build a new platform" on the right. Then, when they do, it j ­gets banned off of devices. Then it will be "Just build a new phone comp ­and OS!". Then when Amazon bans them from the cloud that's needed for a ­of that scope, it's "well build your own cloud server farm.". Then it wi ­"Well build your own internet!" at some point. This notion that Platform ­do whatever they want and censor whomever just because they're not a ­government HAS to end, or the very fabric of our society is going to cru ­and devolve to violent action of disenfranchised people striving to be h ­That's not the future I want. But, apparently, it's the future governmen ­want. I've been screaming this from the rooftops for years, but, everybo ­too glued into their smartphones to see the writing on the wall... The p ­we've seen for decades is an anomaly. And one that we may sadly see comp ­squashed through technocratic distributed censorship. All while the "lef ­"critical" of big Capital, cheers it on every step of the way. Ironic, i ­it?

    I am hopeful in this regard because they haven't managed to destroy a lot of deeply hated (by infrastructure providers) sites. Including The Pirate Bay.

    They can't really deplatform you from the Internet completely without some s of gov action afaik. AS numbers are assigned via a conssortium-like internet task force and there are domain names for the grab that fall under the contr of some gov managed TDL. I suppose ISP providers could refuse to link to you Autonomous Zones but afaik there are rules against refusing linkage in some countries.

    For evil actors, it is easier to bribe Google into not listing your website their search results, than trying to deplatform you completely. Or just accu you of some bullshit charge and threaten to make you waste $$$$$ in useless court cases unless you remove yourself from the Internet.

    Internet is a federated network. Federated networks regard obstacles to the flow of information as damage and route around them.

    That said, this trend we see is quite disturbing. We have a very powerful SJ crowd that is heavily bent in isolating everybody else from any market - ie your videogame is no SJW enough they will campaign against you. Meanwhile, regular people is still purchasing services from the very entities that are trying to isolate them, giving them more money that will be used against the The Apple/Google/Twitter/Amazon cases are just the tip of the iceberg.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    There is precedent for deplatforming of websites. There were quite a few back ¨in 2017 that burned through dozens of TLD extensions. I won't name them here, ¨but those who remember, remember. Hell, you even saw that with the Pirate Bay ¨for a good while. .com, .org, etc, can be effectively an insta-ban if it's in ¨any way counter the narrative. And I think we are going to continue to see ¨this, and see it accelerate faster than we could have even dreamed of a month ¨ago.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Clover on Monday, January 11, 2021 20:59:56
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Clover to All on Mon Jan 11 2021 07:43 am

    I would not like to see BBSs go mainstream. Once something goes mainstream large corporate conglomerates find a way to bastardize it.
    I also would not like to see BBBs be any more mobile friendly then they are now. The way I see it where there was once the one world labeled "cyberspac there is now two: The computing world and the mobile world.
    On mobile platforms it takes only a few seconds to glance at a post, judge i to be true, agree with it, and share it ... spreading it like a virus.
    If you have a thought, a wim, a complaint, you're just generally being a dic in the mobile world you can spread that hate in less than a minute.
    In the BBS world, if you can't hold that thought and care enough about it an think about it and analyze it long enough to get to a computer and log into BBS to write about it then it's not worth writing about.
    BBSes are great today because they are not mobile friendly, they are not alw "at our fingertips" and they are not on the radar of entities like Apple and Google.

    I have been thinking lately about the fact that we should probably try to ha other networks besides the internet. I was thinking about all those modems lying around collecting dust or rotting in landfills and how for a breif per of time there were computer systems that were on the internet and those that weren't. Wouldn't it be great if you could set up a network of BBSes all ov the world that didn't actually use the internet in any way? Well POTS (Plai old Telephone Systems) are all-but gone today and will be entirely gone soon going back to how it was done in the 90's and before isn't really possible. And if you ask an enginner to come up with a network of BBSes today he's alm certainly end up using the internet in some way even if inadvertently (such VoIP).

    However, ham radio is an option, except that only a small handfull of people would be able to set up something like that with the equipment, space (for antennas) and training (for liscening). Maybe something that used ham stati as a hub then something simplier for more local connections. Could you broadcast data over CB? is that allowed?

    Anyway I digress, I'm way off subject here. I've just been wondering if a group of people wanted to make a computer network entirely outside of the internet how would you go about it given what is available today?

    That's a fascinating question that I ponder pretty regularly as well. Truth ¨is, I don't know, but we are rapidly approaching a point where establishing ¨it would actually have realizable returns (read: Freedom to speak without ¨fear of reprisal or shutdown). Regarding radio or CB, I'm not sure. I know the ¨FCC is very annal about how things are transmitted on the airwaves (for fair ¨reasons). I'm sure more knowledgable people can chime in. I also ¨whole-heartedly agree on your assessment of mobile vs computer dynamics. Even ¨in myself, somebody who spends most of his time on a computer posting, I see a ¨HUGE difference in how I articulate on a mobile device. Though, voice messages ¨help me articulate a lot better. In my opinion, the introduction of the smart ¨phone was the nail in the coffin of the old free wild west era we've left, not ¨to mention what they've done to peoples' ability to just interact in real life ¨together.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Gamgee on Monday, January 11, 2021 21:01:31
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:20 pm

    I also checked the complete list of "restriction" flags you can set on
    a user account, and there is no apparent restriction that would
    prevent a Guest user from seeing networked subs. There are several
    that will prevent them from posting to such, but not viewing. So it's unclear to me how a guest account keeps them from seeing that stuff.

    I have the guest account set to LEVEL 40, and the access levels for each of the networked subboard groups to LEVEL 50 AND NOT REST Q.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Monday, January 11, 2021 21:04:54
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Zombie Mambo on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:05 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It may app
    allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms. 2nd Ame et usage is fair game on their network.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms was a n

    Dream Master

    Fundamentally, if free speech is to continue in the modern era, your, al beit ¨technically legally correct by manys' perspective, reading of the law HAS to ¨be changed. For better or worse, places like Facebook, Twitter, Google, et. ¨al. have become the public square, or the primary means of delivery of ¨information to the people. In the 21st Century Society, they NEED to be ¨treated as such under the law, or, well, we get what we're seeing in these ¨recent years. This is much larger than Trump (I'll put aside all my personal ¨gripes about him). It's about a fundamental right and principle the country ¨was founded on, that is being eroded by a technicality.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Gamgee on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 00:23:49
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Gamgee to Dream Master on Mon Jan 11 2021 09:14 pm

    Thanks for the info, I bet if I set a different (lower) security level
    for the Guest as compared to Normal users, that will be the answer.

    If I snipped from a previous post of yours, it was unintentional.

    I believe it is necessary to augment accounts to ensure access is limited whenever necessary. In the case of my Guest account, I have it set to Level 10 and I restrict the crap out of it. You can only access local message boards, no posting, no transfers, nothing. I'm still tweaking it, but in the end, it will give enough access to look around and that's it.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Brandoniusrex on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 00:28:13
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to Dream Master on Mon Jan 11 2021 09:04 pm

    Fundamentally, if free speech is to continue in the modern era, your, al beit
    technically legally correct by manys' perspective, reading of the law
    HAS to
    be changed. For better or worse, places like Facebook, Twitter,
    Google, et.
    al. have become the public square, or the primary means of
    delivery of
    information to the people. In the 21st Century Society, they
    NEED to be
    treated as such under the law, or, well, we get what we're
    seeing in these
    recent years. This is much larger than Trump (I'll put
    aside all my personal
    gripes about him). It's about a fundamental right and
    principle the country
    was founded on, that is being eroded by a
    technicality.

    I don't believe there will ever be a Constitutional Amendment that will bring to light our current platforms of communication. I agree that Social Networking has become, for better or worse, the public square, yet since businesses run these squares, we are all at the whims of their lawyers and T&Cs. I would love to say, "Let's create an environment that is open to free speech, without burdensome T&Cs," but I know that someone will end up getting offended and someone will get sued. There will always be a "Karen" that will find fault with something.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Boraxman on Monday, January 11, 2021 22:43:35
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Boraxman to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 02:23 am

    Dream Master wrote to Zombie Mambo <=-

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply. A company has every right to stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms. 2nd Amendment, the right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office and see how quickly the police are called on you. 5th Amendment, self-incrimination. Your internet usage is fair game on their network.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms was a necessary evil. Is it their right, yes. A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    When the constitution was written, these kinds of platforms did not exist. There was no need to consider the censorship that business might engage in because at the time no business was able to stifle your speech to any meaningful degree.

    The argument that free speech shouldn't be afforded in the corporate sphere based on taking the 1st amendment in word, rather than in spirit. The purpo of free speech is that is helps ensure a peaceful and prosperous society, because we learned the hard way (through death and suffering) that justifications for limiting opinion and not allowing orthodoxy to be challen was DANGEROUS.

    Free Speech concerns itself with the ABILITY to express an opinion, not abou who is required not to stifle speech or not.

    So if we live in a world where the big business is effectively able to stifl discusion and enforce an ideological orthodoxy, then we are back in the dangerous territory that the 1st amendment was specifically written to avoid It is therefore necessary to adapt, to ensure that there is realised free speech. The important question to ask here is, do citizens in a practical sense, have free speech? And if the answer is no, then we need to make chan so that we can again answer that in the affirmative.

    At the moment the USA does NOT have free speech because the mechanisms to censor exist. That they exist outside of the government is meaningless. Th exist, that is enough to be a threat, and we need new laws to bring back fre speech.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    THIS TIMES A MILLION. Anybody who says "Well government isn't technically ¨doing it, so the 1st Amendment isn't violated" is not looking at the ¨fundamentals, IMO, and that is NOT meant as a personal dig. It's meant as a ¨way for us all to grow in our assessment of our modern world. It is NOT ¨freedom to trade censorship by one entity for another, simply because one is ¨an elected or appointed system of government. In some ways, corporations ¨having this power is almost MORE dangerous, as they are not accountable to the ¨people. "Just make your own facebook". That just got demonstrated to not work, ¨because Big Tech Corporations are in Lock Step on their political narrative. ¨If that narrative fits your narrative, then, fine. Just have the honesty to ¨say you want to crush your political oppossition through censorship. I'll at ¨least respect that. (Directing that at big tech and government, not users ¨here). But, don't cower behind "Oh, free speech, go build your own app or ¨website. Then go get on the not-allowed-unless-rooted app-stores. Then, go ¨build your own cell phones. Then, go build your own cell network. Then, go ¨build your own internet. etc etc." It's a joke, and these corporations are ¨actually weilding more power than governments a decade ago could have DREAMED ¨of, much less governments in the 18th century. Democracy and Freedom of Speech ¨are going flatline on the operating table, and the surgeon? He's first in line ¨to get a big chunk of change if he "exerts all his efforts" and the patient ¨still passes.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Brandoniusrex on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 04:28:51
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to Clover on Mon Jan 11 2021 08:59 pm

    That's a fascinating question that I ponder pretty regularly as well. Truth ¨is, I don't know, but we are rapidly approachi
    point where establishing ¨it would actually have realizable returns (read: Freedom to speak without ¨fear of reprisal or
    shutdown). Regarding radio or CB, I'm not sure. I know the ¨FCC is very annal about how things are transmitted on the airwa
    (for fair ¨reasons). I'm sure more knowledgable people can chime in. I also ¨whole-heartedly agree on your assessment of m
    vs computer dynamics. Even ¨in myself, somebody who spends most of his time on a computer posting, I see a ¨HUGE differenc
    how I articulate on a mobile device. Though, voice messages ¨help me articulate a lot better. In my opinion, the introducti
    of the smart ¨phone was the nail in the coffin of the old free wild west era we've left, not ¨to mention what they've done
    peoples' ability to just interact in real life ¨together.

    Voice messages are a different beast, entirely.

    Most people here uses them when they are in a hurry and want to send something quickly, without having to type. Usually because
    they have onthe the phone hand free. Half the voice messages my friends get are like: "I am nearly there, don't drink the beer
    before I arrive suckers!"

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 07:13:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I also checked the complete list of "restriction" flags you can set on
    a user account, and there is no apparent restriction that would
    prevent a Guest user from seeing networked subs. There are several
    that will prevent them from posting to such, but not viewing. So it's unclear to me how a guest account keeps them from seeing that stuff.

    I have the guest account set to LEVEL 40, and the access levels
    for each of the networked subboard groups to LEVEL 50 AND NOT
    REST Q.

    OK, there it is. That's what I need to do also. Thanks.



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 07:14:00
    Dream Master wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Thanks for the info, I bet if I set a different (lower) security level
    for the Guest as compared to Normal users, that will be the answer.

    I believe it is necessary to augment accounts to ensure access is
    limited whenever necessary. In the case of my Guest account, I
    have it set to Level 10 and I restrict the crap out of it. You
    can only access local message boards, no posting, no transfers,
    nothing. I'm still tweaking it, but in the end, it will give
    enough access to look around and that's it.

    Yep, I'm gonna be tweaking things like this too, thanks.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 08:26:57
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Arelor on Mon Jan 11 2021 06:44 pm

    I've noticed that more and more companies are moving to E-Mail as a Service and dealing with the consequences of it. Look how O365 (or whatever Microsoft is calling it these days) went down multiple times last year. At my old company, I ran a fully redundant environment and kept it up with 99.95% availability. Microsoft, offering their services, can't even do that (plus, I think their SLAs are 99.5% last I checked). By moving these services to the "cloud" (don't get me started here), companies are reducing their reliance on tech-knowledge and instead looking to DevOps and SysOps trained people. I'm neither happy or sad about this but find that something is going to give eventually.

    Yeah, I don't like to totally rely on cloud storage for everything. At home, I still like to buy movies & TV shows I really like on blu-ray, and for music, I often like to buy music I can download or buy it on CD and rip it.

    Again, don't disagree at all. My youngest son asked me to setup a Minecraft environment for him so that he and about 20+ friends of his can play on it. I have no problem running it on AWS or even at home. If I run it at home, I'm making them chip in for the cost of a dedicated computer. When I said, "$20 per person," they all balked. So, instead, I'll create them an instance on AWS on a t2.medium or t2.large and they'll have to deal with some performance degredations. The cost to me, about $25 to $30/mo. It isn't a lot, but its still in the context of what you are saying...people want free and expect it that way.

    It's all a tradeoff. You can pay money or deal with some potential issues there. And for some things, you "pay" with your time viewing ads & such.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to Brandoniusrex on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 08:46:03
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to Zombie Mambo on Sun Jan 10 2021 10:35 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Brandoniusrex on Sun Jan 10 2021 04:37 am

    I've been warning that turning big unaccountable silos into the main s media platforms of the world would bit us in the ***, but nobody ever hahaha

    Ditto that, I started talking that way over a decade ago.
    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hir people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this out again time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    When society changes what is/isn't acceptable to adapt to their own polit agendas on a daily basis, this experiment doesn't work.

    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo
    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]:+=-

    There is a grand delusion that "First amendment protections apply only to ¨government, and if you don't like this sort of distributed anarchotyranny ¨censorship, build a new platform" on the right. Then, when they do, it just ¨gets banned off of devices. Then it will be "Just build a new phone company ¨and OS!". Then when Amazon bans them from the cloud that's needed for a sit ¨of that scope, it's "well build your own cloud server farm.". Then it will ¨"Well build your own internet!" at some point. This notion that Platforms c ¨do whatever they want and censor whomever just because they're not a ¨government HAS to end, or the very fabric of our society is going to crumbl ¨and devolve to violent action of disenfranchised people striving to be hear ¨That's not the future I want. But, apparently, it's the future governments ¨want. I've been screaming this from the rooftops for years, but, everybody ¨too glued into their smartphones to see the writing on the wall... The peac ¨we've seen for decades is an anomaly. And one that we may sadly see complet ¨squashed through technocratic distributed censorship. All while the "left", ¨"critical" of big Capital, cheers it on every step of the way. Ironic, isn' ¨it?

    I completely agree with everything you've mentioned and have felt this way as well for decades!


    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo
    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]:+=-

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to Dream Master on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 08:46:58
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Zombie Mambo on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:05 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It may app in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, th no longer apply. A company has every right to stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms. 2nd Amendment, the right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office and see how quickly the police are called on you. 5 Amendment, self-incrimination. Your internet usage is fair game on their network.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms was a necessary evil. Is it their right, yes. A business has every right to refu service to anyone.

    Dream Master


    Ok then at my company indians and black people need not apply.
    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo
    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]:+=-

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Dream Master on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 13:36:03
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to HusTler on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:09 pm

    BBS's will never be "mainstream" because there are no ads. Years ago

    I disagree. Many large BBSs charged and they remained successful throughout the BBS era. Smaller systems that didn't offer the level of communication, messaging, games, etc., couldn't compete with the bigger systems that existe at the time. I ran a corporate BBS back in the 90s and we charged $15/mo, i had a couple thousand users, 250+ phone lines, access throughout the US and Canada, internet, and even *nix shell accounts. It was making money.

    So what happened? Is the BBS mainstream now?

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Nightfox on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 14:11:37
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 08:26 am

    Yeah, I don't like to totally rely on cloud storage for everything. At home, I still like to buy movies & TV shows I really like on
    blu-ray, and for music, I often like to buy music I can download or buy it on CD and rip it.

    For movies, it all comes down to how much I really want them. I tend to use Vudu and Amazon for the majority of my movies. Music, I really stopped buying albums a couple years ago and just use Amazon Music Unlimited. When I travel, I just download everything to my iPhone and call it a day.

    It's all a tradeoff. You can pay money or deal with some potential issues there. And for some things, you "pay" with your time viewing
    ads & such.

    I'd rather pay. :)

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Zombie Mambo on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 14:13:20
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 08:46 am

    Ok then at my company indians and black people need not apply.

    That's your right. It is also their right to sue you for discrimination. The Constitution enshrines that everyone is equal. It is state and federal laws that ensure discrimination doesn't happen in the work force.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to HusTler on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 14:14:52
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: HusTler to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 01:36 pm

    So what happened? Is the BBS mainstream now?

    You missed my point. The argument was that BBSes failed because they were charging. I disagreed. A lot of BBSes that offered a massive number of phone lines, files, message areas, and such were successful until the Internet became more mainstream. I would love to see BBSes make a comeback but they won't until they can offer somethin Facebook, Twitter, and the rest don't.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 17:57:20
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Zombie Mambo on Tue Jan 12 2021 02:13 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 08:46 am

    Ok then at my company indians and black people need not apply.

    That's your right. It is also their right to sue you for discrimination. The Constitution enshrines that everyone is equal. It is state and federal laws that ensur
    discrimination doesn't happen in the work force.

    Dream Master


    I don t think you can have it both ways.

    Either you accept that Zombie Mambo can choose which criteria to use for selecting which people to deal with in his business, or you reject such notion.

    If you think Zombie Mambo has a right to refuse business with somebody for arbitrary criteria, then you accept Twitter has a right to refuse business with somebody for
    ideological reasons.

    If you think Zombie Mambo has no right to refuse business with somebody following bitrary criteria, then you cannot accept Twitter has a right to refuse business with
    somebody for ideological reasons.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Jack Merritt@VERT/BLACKF to HusTler on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 20:43:14
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: HusTler to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 01:36 pm

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to HusTler on Mon Jan 11 2021 12:09 pm

    BBS's will never be "mainstream" because there are no ads. Years ago

    I disagree. Many large BBSs charged and they remained successful through the BBS era. Smaller systems that didn't offer the level of communicatio messaging, games, etc., couldn't compete with the bigger systems that exi at the time. I ran a corporate BBS back in the 90s and we charged $15/mo had a couple thousand users, 250+ phone lines, access throughout the US a Canada, internet, and even *nix shell accounts. It was making money.

    So what happened? Is the BBS mainstream now?


    I remember a BBS called Rusty and Edies. There must have been 100 modems operating. Thet gave access to users that uploaded new files to nthe BBS. Unfortunately many of the new files were copy protected and eventually the feds shut them down and confiscated their equipmnet sometime in the late 90's. I was running a 3 node BBS at the time called "Faculty Lounge" back in the good old Dos days with 9600 baud modems. BBS's were a novelty then and there were more users than sysops, I think there were 40,000 BBS's in the country at the time.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Blackfair's Manor - blackf.synchro.net
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to CLOVER on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 19:12:00
    I would not like to see BBSs go mainstream. Once something goes mainstream large corporate conglomerates find a way to bastardize it.

    I wouldnt' want them to go as mainstream as FB or twitter, but I wouldn't
    mind if they were one day as mainstream as they were back 25-30 years ago.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Arelor on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 17:58:24
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 05:57 pm

    I don t think you can have it both ways.

    You can't, but the law says you can. The Constitution is a set of guidelines at the federal level, which lays a basis for all laws that are made.

    Either you accept that Zombie Mambo can choose which criteria to use for selecting which people to
    deal with in his business, or you reject such notion.

    Zombie Mambo can hire and fire who he chooses and he can discriminate at will. It is the moment that the discrimination becomes visible does it become a viable discrimination lawsuit.

    If you think Zombie Mambo has a right to refuse business with somebody for arbitrary criteria, then
    you accept Twitter has a right to refuse business with somebody for ideological reasons.

    I've always been of the belief a business has the right to refuse service to anyone. In this case, whether it is ideological or not, the facts remain, they are refusing him service.

    If you think Zombie Mambo has no right to refuse business with somebody following bitrary criteria,
    then you cannot accept Twitter has a right to refuse business with somebody for ideological
    reasons.

    ...sure...

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Brandoniusrex on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 00:22:00
    Brandoniusrex wrote to Boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Boraxman to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 02:23 am

    Dream Master wrote to Zombie Mambo <=-

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Arelor on Sun Jan 10 2021 01:22 pm

    You can't apply your terms and service in such a way that violates constitutional rights either. If you want to do business in this country, and others, you have to do things a certain way, just like if you want to hire/fire people... So I have hope and pray that people will figure this again in time for my kids have a better life of true freedom like this country is SUPPOSED to stand for.

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply. A company has every right to stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms. 2nd Amendment, the right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office and see how quickly the police are called on you. 5th Amendment, self-incrimination. Your internet usage is fair game on their network.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms was a necessary evil. Is it their right, yes. A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    When the constitution was written, these kinds of platforms did not exist. There was no need to consider the censorship that business might engage in because at the time no business was able to stifle your speech to any meaningful degree.

    The argument that free speech shouldn't be afforded in the corporate sphere based on taking the 1st amendment in word, rather than in spirit. The purpo of free speech is that is helps ensure a peaceful and prosperous society, because we learned the hard way (through death and suffering) that justifications for limiting opinion and not allowing orthodoxy to be challen was DANGEROUS.

    Free Speech concerns itself with the ABILITY to express an opinion, not abou who is required not to stifle speech or not.

    So if we live in a world where the big business is effectively able to stifl discusion and enforce an ideological orthodoxy, then we are back in the dangerous territory that the 1st amendment was specifically written to avoid It is therefore necessary to adapt, to ensure that there is realised free speech. The important question to ask here is, do citizens in a practical sense, have free speech? And if the answer is no, then we need to make chan so that we can again answer that in the affirmative.

    At the moment the USA does NOT have free speech because the mechanisms to censor exist. That they exist outside of the government is meaningless. Th exist, that is enough to be a threat, and we need new laws to bring back fre speech.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    THIS TIMES A MILLION. Anybody who says "Well government isn't
    technically ¨doing it, so the 1st Amendment isn't violated" is not
    looking at the ¨fundamentals, IMO, and that is NOT meant as a personal dig. It's meant as a ¨way for us all to grow in our assessment of our modern world. It is NOT ¨freedom to trade censorship by one entity for another, simply because one is ¨an elected or appointed system of government. In some ways, corporations ¨having this power is almost
    MORE dangerous, as they are not accountable to the ¨people. "Just make your own facebook". That just got demonstrated to not work, ¨because
    Big Tech Corporations are in Lock Step on their political narrative.
    ¨If that narrative fits your narrative, then, fine. Just have the
    honesty to ¨say you want to crush your political oppossition through censorship. I'll at ¨least respect that. (Directing that at big tech
    and government, not users ¨here). But, don't cower behind "Oh, free speech, go build your own app or ¨website. Then go get on the not-allowed-unless-rooted app-stores. Then, go ¨build your own cell phones. Then, go build your own cell network. Then, go ¨build your own internet. etc etc." It's a joke, and these corporations are ¨actually weilding more power than governments a decade ago could have DREAMED
    ¨of, much less governments in the 18th century. Democracy and Freedom
    of Speech ¨are going flatline on the operating table, and the surgeon? He's first in line ¨to get a big chunk of change if he "exerts all his efforts" and the patient ¨still passes.

    The USA has become an authoritarian state. It isn't fascist in the sense that the people in power are the direct descendents of the Italian fascist movement, but you are in the grip of something that is more or less like it. The merger of state and corporate power, the suppression of speech, a mandatory orthodoxy, surveillance, monitoring, propaganda, lying, a unified vision.

    Free Speech isn't "Granted", its actually the result or prohibitions, namely prohibiting actions where one person may take retribution against another because of what they said. Thats is why the 1st amendment is the way it is. It says what the government CAN'T do, not what citizens CAN. A subtle, but important difference. The 1st amendment does not grant rights, it limits exercise of power. By default, we have free speech, it is the action of institutions and others which then take it away.

    Therefore, when progressives talk about how rights aren't infringed, they are missing the point. The discussion is not about whether someone is 'taking away your right', that is irrelevant. The discussion is about exercise of power. Does the exercise of power take away someones ability to speak? All discussions of free speech must be framed this way. It is not about whether I can say what I can say, after all, in Nazi Germany, you could if you wanted to, say all you want against Hitler and the regime. The problem was the "consequences", the power that could work against you in response. The discussion should always be about what gross exercises of power should be curtained against others.

    This is important, because these fascists talk in terms of how much speech should be 'allowed', but it is really the flipside which we should be discussion, that is, how much they should be 'allowed' to control us. Because it is only through their control over us, that the border of what is allowed and is not allowed is defined.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dream Master on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 00:29:00
    Dream Master wrote to Brandoniusrex <=-

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Brandoniusrex to Dream Master on Mon Jan 11 2021 09:04 pm

    Fundamentally, if free speech is to continue in the modern era, your, al beit
    technically legally correct by manys' perspective, reading of the law
    HAS to
    be changed. For better or worse, places like Facebook, Twitter,
    Google, et.
    al. have become the public square, or the primary means of
    delivery of
    information to the people. In the 21st Century Society, they
    NEED to be
    treated as such under the law, or, well, we get what we're
    seeing in these
    recent years. This is much larger than Trump (I'll put
    aside all my personal
    gripes about him). It's about a fundamental right and
    principle the country
    was founded on, that is being eroded by a
    technicality.

    I don't believe there will ever be a Constitutional Amendment that will bring to light our current platforms of communication. I agree that Social Networking has become, for better or worse, the public square,
    yet since businesses run these squares, we are all at the whims of
    their lawyers and T&Cs. I would love to say, "Let's create an
    environment that is open to free speech, without burdensome T&Cs," but
    I know that someone will end up getting offended and someone will get sued. There will always be a "Karen" that will find fault with
    something.

    If that is the case, you are no longer really a free country, by the people, of the people, for the people. You are moving towards an authoritarian banana republic pretty quickly.

    I'm shocked how apathetic people are about the decline of their nation. Maybe that is why civilisations fall, people actually see it, but they don't consider it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response from Millenials about having overlords oversee and domineer them is "meh".


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Jack Merritt on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 19:59:24
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Jack Merritt to HusTler on Tue Jan 12 2021 08:43 pm

    I remember a BBS called Rusty and Edies. There must have been 100 modems operating. Thet gave access to users that uploaded new files to nthe BBS. Unfortunately many of the new files were copy protected and eventually the feds shut them down and confiscated their equipmnet sometime in the late 90's. I was running a 3 node BBS at the time called "Faculty Lounge" back in the good old Dos days with 9600 baud modems. BBS's were a novelty then and there were more users than sysops, I think there were 40,000 BBS's in the country at the time.

    Yes, I remember them but never went onto their BBS. They also had a very large p0rn collection in the multi-gigabyte range (for the time, that was pretty impressive). I don't recall your BBS, I'm sorry, but I did frequent many Southern California BBSes throughout the late 80s and early 90s.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to HusTler on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 21:31:26
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: HusTler to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 01:36 pm

    at the time. I ran a corporate BBS back in the 90s and we charged $15/mo, i
    had a couple thousand users, 250+ phone lines, access throughout the US and
    Canada, internet, and even *nix shell accounts. It was making money.

    So what happened? Is the BBS mainstream now?

    Many commerical BBS converted into local ISPs, and then were bought out by regional ISPs and so on. I remember in the days of dial up (1997-1999) or so, when it was still hard to get DSL, paying a few different local ISPs for dial up access.

    I had a dedicated phone line, so I would stay connected pretty much 24/7. The local ISP yelled at me and said I would have to pay a business account fee if I did that. Eventually the guy told me if I just disconnected and reconnected once every 24 hours I wouldn't show up on their report and it would be ok.

    Bob Roberts

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Halls of Valhalla =San=Francisco= hovalbbs.com:2333
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Boraxman on Tuesday, January 12, 2021 23:45:51
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Boraxman to Dream Master on Wed Jan 13 2021 12:29 am

    I'm shocked how apathetic people are about the decline of their nation. Maybe that is why civilisations fall, people actually see it, but they don't consider it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response from Millenials about having overlords oversee and domineer them is "meh".

    Ultimately, people no longer give a shit when they are getting what they need from those in power. The minute something goes wrong, all hell breaks loose. America really is the "meh" state--Amehrica. :)

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Dream Master[M0_. on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 07:08:44
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to HusTler on Tue Jan 12 2021 02:14 pm

    So what happened? Is the BBS mainstream now?

    You missed my point. The argument was that BBSes failed because they were charging. I disagreed. A lot of BBSes that offered a massive number of pho

    I missed your point? What happened to the BBSes that charged money? It's a simple question? What does facebook do ? Can a BBS do the same?

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to HusTler on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:41:00
    HusTler wrote to jimmylogan <=-

    BBS's will never be "mainstream" because there are no ads. Years ago some SysOps charged for their services and even that didn't work out.
    So yea, BBSing is a hobby because money isn't involved. If users would take the time to learn how to use a BBS I suspect they would be used
    more.

    That may change. It's hard to charge when the BBS next door gives it away
    for free.

    But I think many people are waking up to the fact that if you use a "free" service, then *you* are the product that they are selling. I think that
    the idea of paying for no-ads and better service is a good thing.


    ... Excuse me if I sound bitter....I taste that way too
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dream Master on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:53:00
    Dream Master wrote to Zombie Mambo <=-

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Still trying to push the Leftie Narrative, I see.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It
    may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply.

    That's not true. I can say what I want, whereever I want, however I want.
    But there are ramifications for doing so. If I go to the grocery store and start preaching about how great DOVE-NET is, the MAXIMUM the grocery store
    can do is ask me to leave. Once they've done so, the only thing that they
    can do is charge me with tresspassing.

    A company has every right to
    stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms.

    But they do not have the right to collude to suppress your speech.
    Check out Parler's lawsuit. Sherman Anti Trust. RICO, etc. Those
    are all laws that prohibit private companies from doing things like this.

    Then we have Breach of Contract. AWS was required, under the contract they signed with Parler, to provide 30 days notice. By not doing so, they committed a crime.

    2nd Amendment, the
    right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office
    and see how quickly the police are called on you.

    There have been numerous lawsuits against "woke" companies who have pushed this. Look them up.

    Unless the company explicitly declares a policy, you can bring your gun to work. But many states CCW laws let people carry even at work.

    Companies cannot completely trump your rights.

    5th Amendment, self-incrimination.

    All the more reason to set up your own VPN and move away from these
    Leftie "platforms".

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms
    was a necessary evil.

    Only if you are a delusional Leftie - but I repeat myself.

    Is it their right, yes.

    No, actually, it's not. These companies were protected under Section 230.
    As part of that, they could not kick Trump and his supporters off for
    something that the Left made up.

    A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    You are confusing a grocery store with a communication platform that
    acts like, and has legal protections of, a public utility.

    But Lefties never did understand business. That's why they fail so bad.


    ... You go to heaven...God sneezes... What do you say?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Arelor on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 09:14:00
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    I don t think you can have it both ways.

    I think you can.

    Either you accept that Zombie Mambo can choose which criteria to use
    for selecting which people to deal with in his business, or you reject such notion.

    There are a class of businesses called "public utilities". They are privately owned businesses. But they have been deemed to be necessary for the public
    so they have some extra rules put on them.

    For example, the phone company can't just cut off your phone without cause. Same for the power and gas companies. They do have a process do to that,
    but it's not arbitrary and you as a consumer have considerable say in what happens.

    They ran into this in my state a few years back when the gas company wanted
    to shut off the heat to some people in the middle of the winter for not
    paying their bills. The state ruled that they can't do that.

    Then there's the collusion issue. The grocery stores in your area can't all collude to keep you from shopping for groceries. Big Tech also doesn't
    have the right to push competition (i.e. Parler) off the Internet because
    they don't like it.


    ... New religion? I haven't used up the old one, yet!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Boraxman on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:54:20
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Boraxman to Dream Master on Wed Jan 13 2021 12:29 am

    I'm shocked how apathetic people are about the decline of their nation. Maybe that is why civilisations fall, people actually see it, but they don't consider it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response from Millenials about having overlords oversee and domineer them is "meh".

    Maybe the importance of freedom has become lost on some people. Over time, perhaps that importance hasn't been properly taught to future generations. Perhaps too many people have become too comfortable and complacent. Also, maybe there have been subtle changes over time that are too small to trigger worry for some people.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:55:15
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Boraxman on Tue Jan 12 2021 11:45 pm

    loose. America really is the "meh" state--Amehrica. :)

    We've gone from "'Murica!" to "Amehrica"..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to Dumas Walker on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:12:56
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dumas Walker to CLOVER on Tue Jan 12 2021 19:12:00

    I wouldnt' want them to go as mainstream as FB or twitter, but I wouldn't mind if they were one day as mainstream as they were back 25-30 years ago.

    Agreed, I miss the days when boards were so much more active and alive.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž MutinyBBS.com port 2332
  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Dr. What on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 10:01:46
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dr. What to Arelor on Wed Jan 13 2021 09:14 am

    Then there's the collusion issue. The grocery stores in your area can't all collude to keep you from shopping for groceries. Big Tech also doesn't have the right to push competition (i.e. Parler) off the Internet because they don't like it.

    Every business has a Terms of Service you agree to when you create your account. Terms of Service are designed to protect companies and make sure whatever you do with their Service it won't make them look bad, isn't in volation of law, etc.

    Having a bunch of extremists (left or right doesn't matter) promoting violence, murder, property damage, etc, makes them look bad, and thus is a violation of TOS and the account is removed. If the service itself is in voliation, then it will be shutdown by upstream providers, who in turn have their own TOS.

    Bob Roberts

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Halls of Valhalla =San=Francisco= hovalbbs.com:2333
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to HusTler on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 12:34:16
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: HusTler to Dream Master[M0_. on Wed Jan 13 2021 07:08 am

    I missed your point? What happened to the BBSes that charged money? It's a simple question? What does facebook do ? Can a BBS do the same?

    Today, no. Facebook makes money off of their ads, access to their CDN, and their shared oceanic high speed connections throuhout the world. A BBS today could make money if they offered something similar, with ads, but who would put ads on our systems? With the internet, we all are effectively conncted. It's a matter of how we share our combined infrastructure and present it to our users/customers.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 12:57:25
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dr. What to Dream Master on Wed Jan 13 2021 08:53 am

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply.

    That's not true. I can say what I want, whereever I want, however I want. But there are ramifications for doing so. If I go to the grocery store and start preaching about how great DOVE-NET is, the MAXIMUM the grocery store can do is ask me to leave. Once they've done so, the only thing that they can do is charge me with tresspassing.

    That's what I said and you confirmed the truth of my response. You can go into a grocery store and start preaching about the greatness of DOVE-NET, and they will ask you to leave. The concept of my response is that you have your 1st Amendment right to free speach; how someone or something addresses it is out of your hands.

    A company has every right to
    stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms.

    But they do not have the right to collude to suppress your speech.
    Check out Parler's lawsuit. Sherman Anti Trust. RICO, etc. Those
    are all laws that prohibit private companies from doing things like this.

    They aren't colluding. If it wasn't for the events of last Wednesday, everyone and everything would remain the same. It is through the actions of the insurrectionists that caused all these companies to take action. Sherman, RICO, and such are all tactics that will win no favor even in a Trump appointed courtroom.

    Then we have Breach of Contract. AWS was required, under the contract they signed with Parler, to provide 30 days notice. By not doing so, they committed a crime.

    Ah, yes, breach of contract. You're correct. But Section 4.2 (Your Content) explicity declares that if you violate any Policies or law, you are in violation. Further, Section 4.5 (End Users) was also violated. Section 6 (Temporary Suspension) provides for immediate suspension of services based upon Section 6.1a. Breach of contract is not a crime, it is a matter of Tort Law.

    2nd Amendment, the
    right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office and see how quickly the police are called on you.

    There have been numerous lawsuits against "woke" companies who have pushed this. Look them up.

    Unless the company explicitly declares a policy, you can bring your gun to work. But many states CCW laws let people carry even at work.

    The assumption is companies having policies to preclude you bringing a handgun or any weapon on to its grounds. A CCW law does not trump the policies of a company if it is expressly documented and described both in writing and with signage.

    Companies cannot completely trump your rights.

    Agreed. But they can "suspend" your rights. Remember, laws are written from top down. Constitutional->Federal->State->County->City. Businesses that reside in the individual cities must adhere to specific guidelines outlined within city ordinance. If a city ordinance says that you can't smoke within thirty feet of a business, and the business says it is their right to permit smoking within 10 feet of the building, they are in violation. They can claim, that they are "Expressing their right to free speech and expression" and they'd fail.

    5th Amendment, self-incrimination.

    All the more reason to set up your own VPN and move away from these
    Leftie "platforms".

    What really is left or right? If it goes against your beliefs, they are wrong. If they go with your beliefs, they are right. Ultimately, you'll believe what you want to believe. VPNs are great yet there are so many better ways to ensure privacy (and not using TOR) but someone is always looking.

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms was a necessary evil.

    Only if you are a delusional Leftie - but I repeat myself.

    Trump could easily use the Press Briefing Room to communicate his rhetoric. He chose to govern through Twitter. He doesn't want to be questioned by mass media--you don't get questioned on Twitter, he would in the briefing room.

    Is it their right, yes.

    No, actually, it's not. These companies were protected under Section 230. As part of that, they could not kick Trump and his supporters off for something that the Left made up.

    Section 230, sounds like a FOX NEWS talking point, or is that OANN, or Newsmax? The truth remains that if we consider a business equal to a person, thanks to the Supreme Court, than that "person" has the right to do whatever the hell they want.

    A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    You are confusing a grocery store with a communication platform that
    acts like, and has legal protections of, a public utility.

    But Lefties never did understand business. That's why they fail so bad.

    Lefties don't understand business... okay. Please substantiate that claim, I beg you.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Bob Roberts on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 15:44:59
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Bob Roberts to Dr. What on Wed Jan 13 2021 10:01 am

    Having a bunch of extremists (left or right doesn't matter) promoting violen murder, property damage, etc, makes them look bad, and thus is a violation o TOS and the account is removed. If the service itself is in voliation, then will be shutdown by upstream providers, who in turn have their own TOS.

    This is all well and good, but it is quite common to see service operators forced to kick people out because that people is impopular rather than because the people is illegal, and that is a problem.

    Last Tweets from Trump were quite conciliatory and he got banned anyway, which makes me think he was kicked because of who he was rather than what he was saying.

    Parler has been seen slapping people who were misbehaving so I also think they got kicked for what they are rather than for what they do.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 15:56:13
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Wed Jan 13 2021 12:57 pm

    They aren't colluding. If it wasn't for the events of last Wednesday, every and everything would remain the same. It is through the actions of the insurrectionists that caused all these companies to take action. Sherman, RICO, and such are all tactics that will win no favor even in a Trump appoin courtroom.

    There is a webcomic in which a machine is generating an output of random numbers. The list goes like this: 7 -7 -7 -7 -7 ....

    "Are you sure these numbers are random?"

    "Totally! You cannot prove this is not coincidence!"

    Sure, there is a chance that a random number generator produces a million 7s in a row, but if I see a million 7s in a row, my first thought will be that this string of numbers has not been produced by random chance at all.

    The way I see it, you cannot prove Big Tech has not agreed to ban a certain set of individuals from their platform in bad faith, but they are spitting so many 7s in a row that I'd rather suspect they are fishy than believe it is not a coordinated effort.

    Specially because at least Twitter and Alphabeth are known to be partisan.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARELOR on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 17:46:00
    If you think Zombie Mambo has no right to refuse business with somebody followi
    g bitrary criteria, then you cannot accept Twitter has a right to refuse busine
    s with
    somebody for ideological reasons.

    Race is one of the protected classifications. What we are finding is that "different ideological reasons" most certainly is not. Political
    affiliation usually is not, either.


    * SLMR 2.1a * If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BORAXMAN on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 17:32:00
    it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response >from Millenials about having overlords oversee and domineer them is "meh".

    There appear to be many in that group that would actually welcome an authoritarian society, although they may not realize that what they hope
    for will turn out that way. For them, having someone to take care of them
    like mommy and daddy did (or didn't) is more important than freedom.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dr. What on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 22:51:00
    Dr. What wrote to Arelor <=-

    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    I don t think you can have it both ways.

    I think you can.

    Either you accept that Zombie Mambo can choose which criteria to use
    for selecting which people to deal with in his business, or you reject such notion.

    There are a class of businesses called "public utilities". They are privately owned businesses. But they have been deemed to be necessary
    for the public so they have some extra rules put on them.

    For example, the phone company can't just cut off your phone without cause. Same for the power and gas companies. They do have a process do
    to that, but it's not arbitrary and you as a consumer have considerable say in what happens.

    They ran into this in my state a few years back when the gas company wanted to shut off the heat to some people in the middle of the winter
    for not paying their bills. The state ruled that they can't do that.

    Then there's the collusion issue. The grocery stores in your area
    can't all collude to keep you from shopping for groceries. Big Tech
    also doesn't have the right to push competition (i.e. Parler) off the Internet because they don't like it.

    If you start a platform that people use to communicate with each other, you are implicitly accepting the result of that decision and all that comes with it. You cannot turn around and cry foul that the very service you offer to provide is not something you want to do. Twitter has NO MORAL CASE. Twitter, Facebook CHOSE to be a method of communication between people, the onus is on them to accept the reality of what they provide and their decision to take this role in society.

    We see this crap all the time. People who are in publishing who don't want to publish books. People in banking who don't want to offer banking services. People who provide platforms not wanting to provide one. For some reason, their "right" to not do what they offer to do trumps the right of people to be part of society?

    No! The problem is the person who refuses to provide a service. That publisher that had people crying because they were publishing Jordan Petersons book, should be able to fire them if the push the company to drop the book. They are occuping an economic niche, then turning to the public and saying they won't fulfill it! Why should your refusal to do the job you said you would do be respected and protected? This is why I have no problem with businesses being punished for discrimination. If you open a bar, and don't want to serve Blacks, you have no business opening a bar where such people may want to drink.
    This is why the right to "select" who you do business with is not an important right. You already have the right not to do business with people you don't like, by choosing not engage in that business!

    Zombie Mambo has the choice to not provide service by simply not being in the business of providing that service. Zombie Mambo does not need additional freedom to selectively discriminate, so I don't have issue with laws which would punish Zombie Mambo for discrimination. Especially if its an essential good, or Zombie Mambo is a monopoly, or has significant market share, or it not easy for the customer to use a competitor.

    Now if Zombie Mambo is Jewish, runs a cake store and is asked to make a cake that celebrates Adolf Hitlers birthday, can he refuse? In this case, yes, because he is refusing to perform a specific act orthogonal to the business. He is not discriminating per se (we are assuming that he would otherwise serve these people if they wanted a cake with a conventional message) nor is he choosing not to provide cakes or the service (this is an exceptional case). He is refusing to act against his interests or beliefs AND those interests/beliefs don't actually conflict with what he is doing or impede peoples ability to enjoy those services/goods. The relationship between a provider and customer is two way, the customer also has no right to be unreasonable on the provider and expect non-normative requests to be fulfilled.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dr. What on Thursday, January 14, 2021 01:09:00
    Dr. What wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Dream Master wrote to Zombie Mambo <=-

    Constitutional rights do not apply to businesses.

    Still trying to push the Leftie Narrative, I see.

    Think of it this way... 1st Amendment, the right to free speech. It
    may apply in a public forum but under the auspices of a business or private entity, they no longer apply.

    That's not true. I can say what I want, whereever I want, however I
    want. But there are ramifications for doing so. If I go to the grocery store and start preaching about how great DOVE-NET is, the MAXIMUM the grocery store can do is ask me to leave. Once they've done so, the
    only thing that they can do is charge me with tresspassing.

    Being kicked out is not a ramification of what you said, but rather the fact that you are engaging in unsolicited communiction and harrassment of customers, in a private place where such commnication is not expected nor part of the business.

    A company has every right to
    stifle the expression of free speech simply by not allowing you to communicate openly on LinkedIn or other platforms.

    But they do not have the right to collude to suppress your speech.
    Check out Parler's lawsuit. Sherman Anti Trust. RICO, etc. Those
    are all laws that prohibit private companies from doing things like
    this.

    Then we have Breach of Contract. AWS was required, under the contract they signed with Parler, to provide 30 days notice. By not doing so,
    they committed a crime.

    I think even without collusion they don't fully have that right. They have the right to stop people abusing the service and to make people trespassers. They have the right to prevent use of the property contrary to its stated and agreed purpose. Expression of opinion publically on a platform which provides public expression of opinion is not grounds to kick someone off.

    The human right to freedom of expression and opinion cannot just be assumed to cease to exist, just because of private property.


    2nd Amendment, the
    right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office
    and see how quickly the police are called on you.

    There have been numerous lawsuits against "woke" companies who have
    pushed this. Look them up.

    Unless the company explicitly declares a policy, you can bring your gun
    to work. But many states CCW laws let people carry even at work.

    Companies cannot completely trump your rights.

    5th Amendment, self-incrimination.

    All the more reason to set up your own VPN and move away from these
    Leftie "platforms".

    The idea that Trump was removed from the social networking platforms
    was a necessary evil.

    Only if you are a delusional Leftie - but I repeat myself.

    Is it their right, yes.

    No, actually, it's not. These companies were protected under Section
    230. As part of that, they could not kick Trump and his supporters off
    for something that the Left made up.

    A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    You are confusing a grocery store with a communication platform that
    acts like, and has legal protections of, a public utility.

    But Lefties never did understand business. That's why they fail so
    bad.

    Yet big business seems to support their causes. Go figure!

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZOMBZONE to Dream Master on Thursday, January 14, 2021 07:45:19
    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Zombie Mambo on Tue Jan 12 2021 02:13 pm

    Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Zombie Mambo to Dream Master on Tue Jan 12 2021 08:46 am

    Ok then at my company indians and black people need not apply.

    That's your right. It is also their right to sue you for discrimination. T Constitution enshrines that everyone is equal. It is state and federal laws that ensure discrimination doesn't happen in the work force.

    Dream Master

    Ok then at my company we serve food accept to asians and hispanics.
    Oh we say it's because we don't like what they are wearing, which we have every right to deny service for, but we all know its because we hate asians and hispanics. Their anti-american hate speech can't be tolerated.


    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo
    -=+:[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]:+=-

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net 61912 ]=-+
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dumas Walker on Thursday, January 14, 2021 21:56:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response
    from Millenials about having overlords oversee and domineer them is "meh".

    There appear to be many in that group that would actually welcome an authoritarian society, although they may not realize that what they
    hope for will turn out that way. For them, having someone to take care
    of them like mommy and daddy did (or didn't) is more important than freedom.

    Weren't some of these people actually referring to Biden and Harris as Mum and Dad?

    It's quite detestable, the way that people just seem to automatically think that certain people with position/expertise/authority are somehow not also just human beings, flawed, mistaken and also potentially (likely) to spin, mislead and lie for their benefit. There is an inbuilt desire to follow some father figure, and there are many cretins willing to assume that position, undeservedly.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Thursday, January 14, 2021 22:51:47
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Boraxman on Tue Jan 12 2021 11:45 pm

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Boraxman to Dream Master on Wed Jan 13 2021 12:29 am

    I'm shocked how apathetic people are about the decline of their nation. Maybe that is why civilisations fall, people actually see it, but they do consider it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, an the response from Millenials about having overlords oversee and domineer them is "meh".

    Ultimately, people no longer give a **** when they are getting what they nee

    Dream Master

    People underestimate the fragility of the system. It just takes creature ¨discomforts, and the whole house of cards comes down, and I mean that in a way ¨of saying, we need to PREVENT that. But, our leaders don't want to.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thursday, January 14, 2021 22:56:00
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Wed Jan 13 2021 08:54 am

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Boraxman to Dream Master on Wed Jan 13 2021 12:29 am

    I'm shocked how apathetic people are about the decline of their nation. Maybe that is why civilisations fall, people actually see it, but they don't consider it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response from Millenials about having overlords overse and domineer them is "meh".

    Maybe the importance of freedom has become lost on some people. Over time,
    changes over time that are too small to trigger worry for some people.

    Nightfox

    I think we'r seeing the cycle of history repeat. We always wondered, "how do ¨people fall prey to the cycles of the past?!". It's because the lens of the ¨current magnifies how different your technology and situation is from the ¨past. 100 years beyond that point, those differences become tiny little ¨ripples, just as, for example, fluctuations of bitcoin's price a decade ago ¨between 1 and 10 dollars was huge, and is now literally miliseconds of price ¨action. In retrospect, what we are seeing now will be crystal clear, and ¨people will question how we missed it. Then, they'll go on to allow, who ¨knows, banning of holograms on alpha-centauri that are beamed from Earth, or ¨whatever

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Bob Roberts on Friday, January 15, 2021 08:46:00
    Bob Roberts wrote to Dr. What <=-

    Every business has a Terms of Service you agree to when you create your account. Terms of Service are designed to protect companies and make
    sure whatever you do with their Service it won't make them look bad,
    isn't in volation of law, etc.

    And since Facebook/Twitter/etc. are protected under Section 230 what you
    post cannot get them into trouble.

    Having a bunch of extremists (left or right doesn't matter) promoting violence, murder, property damage, etc, makes them look bad, and thus
    is a violation of TOS and the account is removed.

    Yet Lefties can't seem to never violate those terms of service no matter how violent their posts are and non-Lefties can violate without actually doing anything violating.


    ... I'd love to, but I'm touring China with a wok band.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dream Master on Friday, January 15, 2021 08:49:00
    Dream Master wrote to Dr. What <=-

    They aren't colluding.

    More Leftie Narrative. But we'll see how the lawsuits pan out.

    If it wasn't for the events of last Wednesday,
    everyone and everything would remain the same.

    Of course, that's why those events were stagged. There's plenty of evidence that's come to light about that.

    It is through the actions of the insurrectionists

    Ah, yes. The latest Leftie boogyman: Insurrectionists.

    Lefties always project.

    Ah, yes, breach of contract. You're correct. But Section 4.2 (Your Content) explicity declares that if you violate any Policies or law,
    you are in violation.

    But Parler never violated any law. As a matter of fact, their policies
    were based on the federal laws relating to speech.


    ... No, no, nurse! I said SLIP off his SPECTACLES!!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Arelor on Friday, January 15, 2021 09:45:00
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    There is a webcomic in which a machine is generating an output of
    random numbers. The list goes like this: 7 -7 -7 -7 -7 ....

    "Are you sure these numbers are random?"

    "Totally! You cannot prove this is not coincidence!"

    A number of years ago we had a system that needed to send messages.
    Each message needed a unique ID. The junior member of the team decided
    just to use a random number. Ya, he spent weeks trying to figure out
    why some of the messages were "disappearing" at random (Hmmm.. "at random" might be a hint at what was wrong).

    Once us senior members looked at his code, we replaced the random number
    with a date/time down to milliseconds and the problem went away.

    And Junior learned that "random <> unique".


    ... I'm not rude, I'm "attitudinally challenged".
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Dumas Walker on Friday, January 15, 2021 09:50:00
    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    There appear to be many in that group that would actually welcome an authoritarian society, although they may not realize that what they
    hope for will turn out that way. For them, having someone to take care
    of them like mommy and daddy did (or didn't) is more important than freedom.

    Those people are just incredibly naive and uneducated.

    The Leftie schools have not taught that socialism has always turned to totaliarianism and always ended badly for the population.

    Some of these people just want to be like the Scandanavian countries, but
    they ignore the realities of that too. 1: they aren't socialist in wealth creation - they are capitalist. 2: they are socialist only in government programs - and they tax the daylights out of everyone to provide those programs. In some of those countries, they are trying to privatize those programs.


    ... Jesus saves....Passes to Moses....He shoots! HE SCORES!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Boraxman on Friday, January 15, 2021 09:51:00
    Boraxman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    It's quite detestable, the way that people just seem to automatically think that certain people with position/expertise/authority are somehow not also just human beings, flawed, mistaken and also potentially
    (likely) to spin, mislead and lie for their benefit.

    One thing about Lefties that's constant: they completely fail to understand human nature.


    ... "Please return stewardess to original upright position"
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Zombie Mambo on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 07:52:00
    Zombie Mambo wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Ok then at my company indians and black people need not apply.

    <grabs popcorn> yeah, we'll see how that plays out.


    ... Emphasize the flaws
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 07:56:00
    Dream Master wrote to HusTler <=-

    You missed my point. The argument was that BBSes failed because
    they were charging. I disagreed. A lot of BBSes that offered a
    massive number of phone lines, files, message areas, and such were successful until the Internet became more mainstream. I would love to
    see BBSes make a comeback but they won't until they can offer somethin Facebook, Twitter, and the rest don't.

    It was a slaughter for BBSes. BBSes were competing for dollars for you to connect to what was essentially a walled garden. Netcom, CRL and other ISPs came out with shell accounts that, for the price of one BBS subscription,
    gave you the world.

    I ran a dial-up BBS with a single line. I settled for getting drinks bought for me at get-togethers. :)





    ... Emphasize the flaws
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 07:57:00
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    If you think Zombie Mambo has a right to refuse business with somebody
    for arbitrary criteria, then you accept Twitter has a right to refuse business with somebody for ideological reasons.

    He used the word "apply". Not catering to people of color as a business
    owner is one thing. Not hiring people because of their color is another argument.

    If you think Zombie Mambo has no right to refuse business with somebody following bitrary criteria, then you cannot accept Twitter has a right
    to refuse business with somebody for ideological reasons.

    Did you read the blog post outlining why Donald Trump was removed from Twitter? It wasn't because of ideological reasons. It's up on blog.twitter.com.


    ... Emphasize the flaws
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Jack Merritt on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 07:58:00
    Jack Merritt wrote to HusTler <=-

    I was running a 3 node BBS at the time
    called "Faculty Lounge" back in the good old Dos days with 9600 baud modems.

    Great name. I've always run realitycheckBBS, thought about changing the name and tried it for a while, but the old name always stuck around.


    ... Emphasize the flaws
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Boraxman on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:03:00
    Boraxman wrote to Dream Master <=-

    If that is the case, you are no longer really a free country, by the people, of the people, for the people. You are moving towards an authoritarian banana republic pretty quickly.

    I might agree, the current administration's reliance on social media while trying to remove section 230 protections from social media looked to me like wanting to only allow "sanctioned" social media sites. I could imagine a post-230, second Trump administration world where lawsuits take down other social media providers, but the administration provides some level of protection for selected providers.

    I'm shocked how apathetic people are about the decline of their nation.
    Maybe that is why civilisations fall, people actually see it, but they don't consider it that important. People used to fight and die for freedom, and the response from Millenials about having overlords
    oversee and domineer them is "meh".

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume
    privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't have anything to hide.





    ... Emphasize the flaws
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Bob Roberts on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 08:05:00
    Bob Roberts wrote to HusTler <=-

    Many commerical BBS converted into local ISPs, and then were bought out
    by regional ISPs and so on. I remember in the days of dial up
    (1997-1999) or so, when it was still hard to get DSL, paying a few different local ISPs for dial up access.

    Back then, I had an ISDN line to connect to my office for LAN access. I had
    a Motorola BitSurfr Pro modem at home and a Shiva LAN Rover at work. If I recall, inbound calls were free. I could use one line for inbound BBS calls, use the other line for internet access and downloading Fidonet mail via FTP, hunt up to the second line to have two inbound lines, or nail then both up
    to get 112kb/sec connection to the internet - pretty good for the time.



    ... Emphasize the flaws
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dr. What on Friday, January 15, 2021 06:50:00
    Dr. What wrote to HusTler <=-

    But I think many people are waking up to the fact that if you use a
    "free" service, then *you* are the product that they are selling. I
    think that the idea of paying for no-ads and better service is a good thing.

    The tough change is getting people to realize that content should be paid
    for, to the content creators. Web 2.0 got a handful of employees and shareholders of social media companies rich, web 3.0 should find a way to reward the makers of the content that make the social media companies rich.

    As it is now, people think content should be free. Someone has to make it.


    ... Abandon desire
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dr. What on Friday, January 15, 2021 06:53:00
    Dr. What wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Then we have Breach of Contract. AWS was required, under the contract they signed with Parler, to provide 30 days notice. By not doing so,
    they committed a crime.

    I'm sure they have an out clause. Have you read an AWS contract? I'll pull
    up mine and see.

    2nd Amendment, the
    right to bare arms. Go ahead and bring your handgun into the office
    and see how quickly the police are called on you.

    I wore a tank top this summer and no police were called.

    No, actually, it's not. These companies were protected under Section
    230. As part of that, they could not kick Trump and his supporters off
    for something that the Left made up.

    Have you read Section 230? I don't think it means what you think it means.

    A business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

    But Lefties never did understand business. That's why they fail so
    bad.

    You're not doing so well proving otherwise for, uh, righties?


    ... Only one element of each kind
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Friday, January 15, 2021 06:58:00
    Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-


    Maybe the importance of freedom has become lost on some people. Over time, perhaps that importance hasn't been properly taught to future generations.

    It's a pendulum. The generation that fought against world fascism watched
    the pendulum swing to complacency. Inevitably, the pendulum will swing
    again. I hope we haven't been made irrevocably complacent and that it won't take a world conflict and genocide to do so.




    ... Only one element of each kind
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Friday, January 15, 2021 06:59:00
    Dream Master wrote to HusTler <=-

    Today, no. Facebook makes money off of their ads, access to their
    CDN, and their shared oceanic high speed connections throuhout the
    world. A BBS today could make money if they offered something similar, with ads, but who would put ads on our systems? With the internet, we
    all are effectively conncted. It's a matter of how we share our
    combined infrastructure and present it to our users/customers.

    FidoBook!


    ... Only one element of each kind
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Friday, January 15, 2021 07:03:00
    Arelor wrote to Bob Roberts <=-

    Last Tweets from Trump were quite conciliatory and he got banned
    anyway, which makes me think he was kicked because of who he was rather than what he was saying.

    blog.twitter.com laid out exactly what actions prompted their removal of Trump.


    ... Only one element of each kind
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, January 15, 2021 12:02:04
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Wed Jan 13 2021 07:57 am

    Did you read the blog post outlining why Donald Trump was removed from Twitter? It wasn't because of ideological reasons. It's up on blog.twitter.com.


    "Everybody has two reasons to justify their actions. A good reason, and a real reason."

    I think Trump was banned for being who he is and standing for what he stands for (real reason), and the justifications listed in Twitter's blog are just the public justifications (the good reason).

    Except that upon reading on those justifications I think they are feeble even at being good justifications. They take a bunch of tweets that are in no way different than the ones cast by lots of politicians everywhere, and twist them through a filter that turns them into calls for violence (disregarding the fact the last thing I read from Trump was calling por peace rather explicitly).

    It is like White Wolf's forum, but at a larger scale.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, January 15, 2021 12:06:43
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dr. What on Fri Jan 15 2021 06:50 am

    The tough change is getting people to realize that content should be paid for, to the content creators. Web 2.0 got a handful of employees and shareholders of social media companies rich, web 3.0 should find a way to reward the makers of the content that make the social media companies rich.

    I think content creation is a pretty much failed business model out of specialist niches.

    This is the digital era. Digital content can be replicated to infinity. Things that are in infinity supply have a value of zero.

    This is why you have magazines you must pay to in order to have stuff published in them, and why it is so hard to get music fans in meaningful numbers. Everybody and their aunt is producing content yet the content is close to worthless as a tradeable good.

    Social media and other content providers survive because they get other people to generate content for them for free and then monetize from activities that are independent of the quality of the content.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, January 15, 2021 12:17:31
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jan 15 2021 06:58 am

    Nightfox wrote to Boraxman <=-


    Maybe the importance of freedom has become lost on some people. Over time, perhaps that importance hasn't been properly taught to future generations.

    It's a pendulum. The generation that fought against world fascism watched the pendulum swing to complacency. Inevitably, the pendulum will swing again. I hope we haven't been made irrevocably complacent and that it won't take a world conflict and genocide to do so.




    ... Only one element of each kind

    Something I learnt from Ultima Ratio Regis, a book about the management of warfare weapons by ruling institutions from the antique times to the modern era:

    ** Cultures whose members stop being combative get destroyed by combative neighbours **

    The book does not draw this conclusion itself. The author is clearly a kumbaya pacifist. However, I noticed this pattern:

    * Civilization is formed by free warriors who follow strict codes of honor - ie if you insult somebody's daughter it is cause for an axe duel to the death or something.
    * Civilitation starts offloading the responsibilities of the members to ruling clases.
    * Carrying a ceremonal axe/spear/shield with you falls out of phashion and is considered uncivilized and barbaristic.
    * Civilization starts offloading their responsibilities on external powers (ie you hget barbarians to fight your wars because you are too civilized to get your hands dirty).
    * Civilitation falls.

    The West has run all the course from stopping being free warriors who follow strict codes of honor to offloading our responsibilities to external powers in less than 100 years.

    This leads me to believe that the fall of the West is night.

    History repeats itself.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Dr. What on Friday, January 15, 2021 10:56:04
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dr. What to Bob Roberts on Fri Jan 15 2021 08:46 am

    Yet Lefties can't seem to never violate those terms of service no matter how violent their posts are and non-Lefties can violate without actually doing anything violating.

    Maybe you're right. Maybe left-leaning groups do get violent. Maybe they use services like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to communicate their plans. This difference is what allows the left-leaning groups to clear any T&C hurdles that the right-leaning groups seem to get stuck on.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - Coming Soon!
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dream Master on Friday, January 15, 2021 16:00:01
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dream Master to Dr. What on Fri Jan 15 2021 10:56 am

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dr. What to Bob Roberts on Fri Jan 15 2021 08:46 am

    Yet Lefties can't seem to never violate those terms of service no matter violent their posts are and non-Lefties can violate without actually doin anything violating.

    Maybe you're right. Maybe left-leaning groups do get violent. Maybe they u services like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to communicate their plans. This difference is what allows the left-leaning groups to clear any T&C hurd that the right-leaning groups seem to get stuck on.

    Dream Master


    T&C are funny because it is always an admin who enforces them and has final say.

    You'd think a rule that goes "Glorifying violence against any collective is forbidden" is reasonable.

    But then somebody gets banned after saying he would not purchase a product that contained pro-gay propaganda, and the reason admins give is that such declaration is hate speech against homosexuals and therefore the user is banned under anti-violence rules.

    Terms and Conditions are regularly bent. The difference between a fair admin and a sucker is that a fair admin will apply the same banhammer left and right. Meanwhile, a sucker will twist the Terms and Conditions in order to ban people she disagrees with.

    Which is why, IMO, once you spot a sucker running as an admin, you should flee their platform.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dr. What on Saturday, January 16, 2021 08:32:00
    Dr. What wrote to Dream Master <=-

    It is through the actions of the insurrectionists

    Ah, yes. The latest Leftie boogyman: Insurrectionists.

    Lefties always project.


    DARVO


    ... Abandon desire
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Dr. What on Sunday, January 17, 2021 15:29:00
    Dr. What wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    @MSGID: <6001B730.49332.dove-general@dmine.net>
    @REPLY: <5FFF79FF.51371.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

    There appear to be many in that group that would actually welcome an authoritarian society, although they may not realize that what they
    hope for will turn out that way. For them, having someone to take care
    of them like mommy and daddy did (or didn't) is more important than freedom.

    Those people are just incredibly naive and uneducated.

    The Leftie schools have not taught that socialism has always turned to totaliarianism and always ended badly for the population.

    Some of these people just want to be like the Scandanavian countries,
    but they ignore the realities of that too. 1: they aren't socialist in wealth creation - they are capitalist. 2: they are socialist only in government programs - and they tax the daylights out of everyone to provide those programs. In some of those countries, they are trying to privatize those programs.


    Marxist Socialism is not the opposite of Capitalism. It is just a system where the country is run by a single company.
    The Socialist-Capitalist dictotomy is not actually one.


    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 17, 2021 15:31:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Arelor <=-

    @MSGID: <6001C041.44673.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <5FFE3760.19777.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    Arelor wrote to Dream Master <=-

    If you think Zombie Mambo has a right to refuse business with somebody
    for arbitrary criteria, then you accept Twitter has a right to refuse business with somebody for ideological reasons.

    He used the word "apply". Not catering to people of color as a business owner is one thing. Not hiring people because of their color is another argument.

    If you think Zombie Mambo has no right to refuse business with somebody following bitrary criteria, then you cannot accept Twitter has a right
    to refuse business with somebody for ideological reasons.

    Did you read the blog post outlining why Donald Trump was removed from Twitter? It wasn't because of ideological reasons. It's up on blog.twitter.com.

    I don't believe them. People do lie and misrepresent their intentions for power in this world. It isn't exactly unheard of for people to use contracts and written guidelines to push a self-serving agenda.

    The amount of trust that people have in those running these companies is staggering. Total trust in the intention of someone with power, that they don't personally know.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 17, 2021 08:39:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dr. What <=-

    The tough change is getting people to realize that content should be
    paid for, to the content creators. Web 2.0 got a handful of employees
    and shareholders of social media companies rich, web 3.0 should find a
    way to reward the makers of the content that make the social media companies rich.

    As it is now, people think content should be free. Someone has to make
    it.

    Agreed. Part of that is overcoming the ignorance of the users of those systems.

    Most users of Social(ist) Media sites don't realize that their personal information is being
    harvested for use by other companies. They don't realize that they are already paying for
    the use of those sites - just not by providing money.


    ... Bush says "No new taxes!", Clinton says, "No, NEW taxes!"
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Sunday, January 17, 2021 15:08:15
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Dr. What to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Jan 17 2021 08:39 am


    Most users of Social(ist) Media sites don't realize that their personal information is being
    harvested for use by other companies. They don't realize that they are already paying for
    the use of those sites - just not by providing money.



    it's scarey to see what information fb has compiled on me. it's like a fucking fbi file. i dont even use my real name but they got everything else.
    it's not always correct, but they dont care.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 17, 2021 17:07:00
    Hello poindexter!

    ** On Friday 15.01.21 - 06:59, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dream Master:

    Facebook makes money off of their ads..
    A BBS today could make money if they offered something similar,..

    FidoBook!


    It's for the dogs, already:

    URL: https://susepaste.org/96694239


    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sunday, January 17, 2021 17:46:00
    Hello poindexter!

    ** On Wednesday 13.01.21 - 08:03, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman:


    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't have anything to hide.


    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Brandoniusrex@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Sunday, January 17, 2021 18:10:37
    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Jan 15 2021 12:06 pm

    Re: Re: Our Brave New World
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dr. What on Fri Jan 15 2021 06:50 am

    The tough change is getting people to realize that content should be paid for, to the content creators. Web 2.0 got a handful of employees and shareholders of social media companies rich, web 3.0 should find a way to reward the makers of the content that make the social media companies ric

    I think content creation is a pretty much failed business model out of specialist niches.

    This is the digital era. Digital content can be replicated to infinity. Thin that are in infinity supply have a value of zero.

    This is why you have magazines you must pay to in order to have stuff publis in them, and why it is so hard to get music fans in meaningful numbers. Everybody and their aunt is producing content yet the content is close to worthless as a tradeable good.

    Social media and other content providers survive because they get other peop to generate content for them for free and then monetize from activities that are independent of the quality of the content.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    I think that blockchain technology may usher in the new web era. We had the ¨internet of ideas exchange, and soon we'll have an internet of value exchange. ¨And, by decentralizing payment networks, the power is decentralized (say, away ¨from Paypal's atrocious model and customer service), and I think will serve to ¨decentralize payments from the "funnel INTO youtube's coffers through ads, ¨trickle out to creators", to a more distributed "Hey I like this guy, I'm ¨sending him X Dollars" type model. You're already slowly seeing sings t his ¨is coming, with things like patreon. But, I think it's going to ramp up in the ¨near future, and Blockchain technology will be the avenue, as there is no way ¨to Ban somebody from it. When creators realize there is a payment system ¨around which they don't have to tiptoe their speech and opinions, there will ¨be a mass exodus. (I'm hoping it will be an exodus to XRP because it's a ¨ludicriously fast network and I'm invested heavily in it, but I'll settle for ¨something like ETH! Haha)

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Brandoniusrex on Monday, January 18, 2021 16:54:00
    Brandoniusrex wrote to Arelor <=-

    I think that blockchain technology may usher in the new web era. We had the ģinternet of ideas exchange, and soon we'll have an internet of
    value exchange. ģAnd, by decentralizing payment networks, the power is decentralized (say, away ģfrom Paypal's atrocious model and customer service), and I think will serve to ģdecentralize payments from the "funnel INTO youtube's coffers through ads, ģtrickle out to creators",
    to a more distributed "Hey I like this guy, I'm ģsending him X Dollars" type model. You're already slowly seeing sings t his ģis coming, with things like patreon. But, I think it's going to ramp up in the ģnear future, and Blockchain technology will be the avenue, as there is no
    way ģto Ban somebody from it. When creators realize there is a payment system ģaround which they don't have to tiptoe their speech and
    opinions, there will ģbe a mass exodus. (I'm hoping it will be an
    exodus to XRP because it's a ģludicriously fast network and I'm
    invested heavily in it, but I'll settle for ģsomething like ETH! Haha)


    If you haven't read Jaron Lanier yet, check out his Ted talks or read "You
    are not a gadget". I think his take on the internet might resonate with you.


    ... Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Ogg on Monday, January 18, 2021 16:55:00
    Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't have anything to hide.


    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    Preach, brother. Add to it the "greater than the sum of the parts" effect
    when you combine data from otherwise innocuous sources. Suddenly trends that weren't in either data stream separately come to light.


    ... Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Ogg on Monday, January 18, 2021 23:11:00
    Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    @MSGID: <6004BE39.51437.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <6001C041.44675.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
    Hello poindexter!

    ** On Wednesday 13.01.21 - 08:03, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman:


    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't have anything to hide.


    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    You will never know what the next outrage, the next taboo is. You might say something that everybody agrees with now, only to find in 10 years or even less, you are fired for saying it.



    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Ogg on Monday, January 18, 2021 11:25:00
    Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Hello poindexter!

    ** On Wednesday 13.01.21 - 08:03, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman:


    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't have anything to hide.


    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    I'm with you there. The question I ask is: When does it stop?

    If they have nothing to hide, why not have glass walls? It's a silly question but it's not meant to be serious.

    As a privacy advocate, many people often defend the lack of privacy as a good thing. It shocks me every time.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    = Synchronet = CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 20:48:00
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Ogg <=-

    @MSGID: <60063D01.44728.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <6004BE39.51437.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't have anything to hide.


    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    Preach, brother. Add to it the "greater than the sum of the parts"
    effect when you combine data from otherwise innocuous sources. Suddenly trends that weren't in either data stream separately come to light.

    Whether or not you feel you have something to hide, wouldn't just plain human dignity and respect be reason enough?

    I flag those people who don't being monitored and tracked as being people I don't want to associate with. They have little sense of self respect, little sense of digniity or self. They view themselves as tools of a system, rather than people. Fortunately, I think most of these people are lying anyway, virtue signalling. I know, because when they say "I've got nothing to hide", I ask them if I can browse their phone and they usually shy away. If you don't want me doing this, how can you claim you are comfortable with a complete stranger doing it?

    Perhaps if they were confronted, face to face, with someone scanning their data, they might feel differently. But when its done by Google, it feels abstract and not real.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to calcmandan on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 00:03:00
    Hello calcmandan!

    ** On Monday 18.01.21 - 11:25, calcmandan wrote to Ogg:

    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    I'm with you there. The question I ask is: When does it stop?

    If they have nothing to hide, why not have glass walls? It's a silly question but it's not meant to be serious.

    As a privacy advocate, many people often defend the lack of privacy as a good thing. It shocks me every time.


    Everyone has something to hide or to be ashamed of too.

    People like that should give this a listen:

    A good presentation of "what the big deal is" is in this TED
    talk:

    Glenn Greenwald: Why privacy matters

    https://youtu.be/pcSlowAhvUk


    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to CALCMANDAN on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 16:28:00
    As a privacy advocate, many people often defend the lack of privacy as a good thing. It shocks me every time.

    They have a tendency to change their minds when their IDs get stolen and
    they cannot use their credit card, or get their tax refund in a timely
    manner.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Spelling is a sober man's game

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Aramis@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Dumas Walker on Saturday, January 30, 2021 01:51:07
    Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Dumas Walker to CALCMANDAN on Wed Jan 20 2021 04:28 pm

    It's strange indeed that people think this way. When the argument about privacy is on the table, a lot of people say that "they have nothing to hide because they are not doing anything wrong". I mostly debunk that by asking if it would be ok to remove the door to their toilet and their bedroom so anyone can come and watch when they are doing 'their business'. There is nothing "wrong" with taking a dump, yet it is something we do like to keep "private", hence the need for privacy.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Aramis on Saturday, January 30, 2021 09:55:31
    Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Aramis to Dumas Walker on Sat Jan 30 2021 01:51 am

    It's strange indeed that people think this way. When the argument about privacy is on the table, a lot of people say that "they have nothing to hide because they are not doing anything wrong". I mostly debunk that by asking if it would be ok to remove the door to their toilet and their bedroom so anyone can come and watch when they are doing 'their business'. There is nothing "wrong" with taking a dump, yet it is something we do like to keep "private", hence the need for privacy.

    This is two completely different areas of privacy.

    The knowledge of your medical, financial, and personal information is completely different than the knowledge of what you do behind closed doors. For example, am I completely open about my lung disease? Mostly, yes. Am I completely open about how much I earn per year? No. Am I completely open about my personal choices, family decisions, etc., mostly yes. Do I want you to know what happens inside my bedroom or bathroom, not really.

    Yet, I have a terrific example of privacy versus stupidity: my aunt. My aunt will be 80 this year. Some years ago, my aunt wasn't doing well financially. Being on Social Security, her momthly take home was significantly less than she needed to stay properly afloat. There is an option within Social Security to request additional funds due "financial conditions" and her argument against it was, "I don't want the government to know how much is in my bank accounts or how much money I have." Lady, the government knows how much you're making... they pay you monthly and see no other income coming in. They know you're in your 70s. They know exactly where you live. They even know your bank account information. Take the money!!!

    She wouldn't budge.

    Like I said, there are different levels of privacy.

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to ARAMIS on Saturday, January 30, 2021 10:13:00
    It's strange indeed that people think this way. When the argument about privac
    is on the table, a lot of people say that "they have nothing to hide because t
    y are not doing anything wrong". I mostly debunk that by asking if it would be
    k to remove the door to their toilet and their bedroom so anyone can come and tch when they are doing 'their business'. There is nothing "wrong" with taking
    dump, yet it is something we do like to keep "private", hence the need for pr
    acy.

    That is a good example. Also, something that is nothing wrong today could become tomorrow's high crime.


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Kills millions of germs on contract"

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Sunday, January 31, 2021 10:32:00
    Dream Master wrote to Aramis <=-

    The knowledge of your medical, financial, and personal information is completely different than the knowledge of what you do behind closed doors. For example, am I completely open about my lung disease?
    Mostly, yes. Am I completely open about how much I earn per year? No.
    Am I completely open about my personal choices, family decisions,
    etc., mostly yes. Do I want you to know what happens inside my bedroom
    or bathroom, not really.

    How do we reconcile the people who think that the illuminati are using Bill Gates to create nanotech that'll be injected into Covid vaccines in order to track and manipulate us, but also have an iPhone with social network apps?


    ... The cities of Caprica are burning.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, February 01, 2021 10:07:58
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dream Master on Sun Jan 31 2021 10:32 am

    How do we reconcile the people who think that the illuminati are using Bill Gates to create nanotech that'll be injected into Covid vaccines in order to track and manipulate us, but also have an iPhone with social network apps?

    This one kills me. When I hear people screaming about their privacy and have the latest and greatest iPhones or Androids I laugh. One of my friends, a center-right leaning conservative, always talks about privacy, not wanting their information out in the world. I ask, "Do you have Bluetooth enabled on your phone? What about Wireless? When was the last time you were on Facebook or Twitter?" An argument usually ensues, but it's a fun one. :)

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wednesday, February 03, 2021 08:21:47
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Feb 03 2021 01:28 am

    "Internet jack"

    That's the one that kills me.

    you think 'ethernet port' sounds less ridiculious?

    I don't see anything wrong with "ethernet port". I mean, that's what it is.. Maybe "network port" is acceptable too. I don't think I've heard anyone say "internet jack". But I've known people who have confused ethernet ports with phone outlets.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wednesday, February 03, 2021 19:48:26
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Feb 03 2021 08:21 am

    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Feb 03 2021 01:28 am

    "Internet jack"

    That's the one that kills me.

    you think 'ethernet port' sounds less ridiculious?

    I don't see anything wrong with "ethernet port". I mean, that's what it

    yeah but them deciding to call it ethernet was weird.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Nightfox on Thursday, February 04, 2021 00:46:47
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Mon Feb 01 2021 05:17 pm

    Really? It seems to me most people know what wi-fi is. I don't recall ever hearing someone call it "wireless". "Wireless" is a bit of an ambiguous term and can mean any type of wireless connection.. A remote control to a TV is wireless but doesn't necessarily use wi-fi. Bluetooth headphones are wireless but they don't use wi-fi.

    When people are talking about an internet connection, I often hear people say wi-fi. And I sometimes see signs at restaurants & other places advertising that they have wi-fi for their customers. And wi-fi is the term used in phone settings..

    Absolutely. The term "wireless" over here means wireless AM/FM radio... Wi-Fi is ubiquitous for wireless internet.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Wednesday, February 03, 2021 23:48:51
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Feb 03 2021 08:21 am

    "Internet jack"

    That's the one that kills me.

    you think 'ethernet port' sounds less ridiculious?

    I don't see anything wrong with "ethernet port". I mean, that's what it is.. Maybe "network port" is acceptable too. I don't think I've heard anyone say "internet jack". But I've known people who have confused ethernet ports with phone outlets.

    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home, he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make calls:)
    I told him Virgal I have a cell phone that you can use for that.
    He didn't quite get the difference between a cell phone and a cordless home phone:)

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Thursday, February 04, 2021 12:53:12
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Wed Feb 03 2021 11:48 pm


    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home, he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make calls:)
    I told him Virgal I have a cell phone that you can use for that.
    He didn't quite get the difference between a cell phone and a cordless home phone:)


    he might be fucking retarded.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Denn on Thursday, February 04, 2021 11:29:52
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Wed Feb 03 2021 11:48 pm

    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home, he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make calls:)
    I told him Virgal I have a cell phone that you can use for that.
    He didn't quite get the difference between a cell phone and a cordless home phone:)

    ...my point exactly...

    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Thursday, February 04, 2021 13:04:24
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Dream Master to Denn on Thu Feb 04 2021 11:29 am

    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home,
    he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make calls:)
    I told him Virgal I have a cell phone that you can use for that.
    He didn't quite get the difference between a cell phone and a cordless
    home phone:)

    ...my point exactly...

    I know there are some tech users who aren't really savvy. One time I was helping someone re-connect their Amazon Echo when they got a new router (which of course had a different wi-fi password). They asked if I could just change the Echo's wifi password seting remotely for them from where I am. They didn't seem to understand that since it wasn't connected to the internet, I couldn't do that.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Friday, February 05, 2021 00:55:06
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: MRO to Denn on Thu Feb 04 2021 12:53 pm

    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home,
    he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make
    calls:) I told him Virgal I have a cell phone that you can use for
    that. He didn't quite get the difference between a cell phone and a
    cordless home phone:)


    he might be fucking retarded.

    No he was around 90 it was an age thing.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Thursday, February 04, 2021 06:43:00
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    yeah but them deciding to call it ethernet was weird.

    Bob Metcalfe had his reasons.


    ... What context would look right?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Denn on Thursday, February 04, 2021 06:47:00
    Denn wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home,
    he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make calls:)

    Back in the '90s, realitycheckBBS was next door to THE PUB in Albany, CA -
    an old house turned pipe shop/bar/coffee shop/discussion salon. Each room
    was set up with couches, chairs, coffee tables bookcases full of old books
    and games, etc.

    I had one of the early 900 mhz digital phones, and I could bring it down to the pub and still get a signal. It got lots of odd looks when someone needed to use the payphone and I'd hand them mine.

    I was on the top floor, the signal made it all the way to the laundromat across the street!


    ... What context would look right?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, February 05, 2021 16:46:00
    Hello poindexter!

    ** On Thursday 04.02.21 - 06:47, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Denn:

    I had one of the early 900 mhz digital phones, and I could
    bring it down to the pub and still get a signal. It got
    lots of odd looks when someone needed to use the payphone
    and I'd hand them mine.

    I thought the 900 mhz phones were analog (pre-digital). I know
    several people who were listening with scanners to neighbors.

    I was on the top floor, the signal made it all the way to
    the laundromat across the street!

    I had a fine quality V-tech 900 mhz. It seemed to have an easy
    100-150ft range.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Friday, February 05, 2021 23:12:44
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: Denn to MRO on Fri Feb 05 2021 12:55 am


    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: MRO to Denn on Thu Feb 04 2021 12:53 pm

    I was taking my Father in law fishing for a few hours close to home,
    he was going to take the cordless house phone so he could make
    calls:) I told him Virgal I have a cell phone that you can use for
    that. He didn't quite get the difference between a cell phone and a
    cordless home phone:)


    he might be fucking retarded.


    well cordless phones have been around a while. and cell phones have been around in some form since the 80's right.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Friday, February 05, 2021 23:13:38
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal,
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Thu Feb 04 2021 06:43 am

    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    yeah but them deciding to call it ethernet was weird.

    Bob Metcalfe had his reasons.



    didnt he just think it sounded cool?
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Ogg on Saturday, February 06, 2021 08:15:00
    Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I had one of the early 900 mhz digital phones, and I could
    bring it down to the pub and still get a signal. It got
    lots of odd looks when someone needed to use the payphone
    and I'd hand them mine.

    I thought the 900 mhz phones were analog (pre-digital). I know
    several people who were listening with scanners to neighbors.

    Oh, you may be right - the 900 mhz might have been spread-spectrum phones instead of single-frequency like the older analog phones.


    ... Abandon desire
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Terminator@VERT/SBBSVA to Ogg on Sunday, April 04, 2021 02:46:11
    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't
    have
    anything to hide.

    It should be up to each individual on how much privacy they wish.


    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    That is why the abuse departments where created
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: 1:275/201.0 (1:275/201.30)
    ž Synchronet ž sbbs.dynu.net 2025
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Terminator on Sunday, April 04, 2021 13:21:00
    Hello Terminator!

    ** On Sunday 04.04.21 - 02:46, Terminator wrote to Ogg:

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all assume
    privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because they don't
    have anything to hide.

    It should be up to each individual on how much privacy they wish.

    The problem with the "nothing to hide" attitude is that
    eventually some things that may seem innocuous to share can be
    used to social engineer fraud or theft.

    That is why the abuse departments where created

    THIS is illuminating:

    https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

    Don't Talk to the Police
    12,154,122 views
    Regent University School of Law
    53.2K subscribers

    Don't have anyything to hide? Think again. Even an honest
    innocuous reply can be turned against you.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ž Synchronet ž CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Sunday, April 04, 2021 23:35:42
    Re: privacy, not a big deal, nothing to hide
    By: Ogg to Terminator on Sun Apr 04 2021 01:21 pm

    THIS is illuminating:

    https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

    Don't Talk to the Police
    12,154,122 views
    Regent University School of Law
    53.2K subscribers

    Don't have anyything to hide? Think again. Even an honest
    innocuous reply can be turned against you.


    i talk to the police, but i've had some of their law enforcement training and i know how to play the game most of the time.

    if i committed a crime or were suspected of such a thing, however, i would not talk to the police. they can twist things around and i've seen it.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Knightbbs@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Terminator on Saturday, April 10, 2021 00:42:42
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal, nothing to hide
    By: Terminator to Ogg on Sun Apr 04 2021 02:46 am

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all
    assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because
    they don't
    have
    anything to hide.

    In that case: Let's move your bed to the front room, remove the curtains, have intercourse in broad dailight in front of a passing crowd and lets get rid of toilets and just poop in a bucket in the middle of the office.

    Privacy does not mean seclusion from observation because you are doing anything wrong, it is a deeply personal right AND in a more fundemental way the only moment we can truly be ourselves.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Knightbbs on Saturday, April 10, 2021 23:55:00
    Knightbbs wrote to Terminator <=-

    @MSGID: <60713AD2.28518.dove-general@warensemble.com>
    @REPLY: <606961D4.15020.dove-general@sbbs.dynu.net>
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal, nothing
    to hide
    By: Terminator to Ogg on
    Sun Apr 04 2021 02:46 am

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all
    assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because
    they don't
    have
    anything to hide.

    In that case: Let's move your bed to the front room, remove the
    curtains, have intercourse in broad dailight in front of a passing
    crowd and lets get rid of toilets and just poop in a bucket in the
    middle of the office.

    Privacy does not mean seclusion from observation because you are doing anything wrong, it is a deeply personal right AND in a more fundemental way the only moment we can truly be ourselves.

    When people tell me that I am silly for being concerned about the government or any other group tracking everything I do and accessing my data, I ask them to allow me to go through their phone. I tell them that the government is just people, like me, and if they are comfortable with strangers rifling through the data, then surely they should be comfortable with someone they know and trust more.

    Haven't had anyone hand over their phone to me so far...

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
  • From multiplemiggs@VERT/BTTMLSS to Boraxman on Tuesday, April 13, 2021 00:14:00
    On 10 Apr 2021, Boraxman said the following...

    Knightbbs wrote to Terminator <=-

    @MSGID: <60713AD2.28518.dove-general@warensemble.com>
    @REPLY: <606961D4.15020.dove-general@sbbs.dynu.net>
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big deal, nothing
    to hide
    By: Terminator to Ogg on
    Sun Apr 04 2021 02:46 am

    It's a slippery slope, like the fact that my son's friends all pF>> assume privacy is a done deal, and it's not a big deal because pF>> they don't
    have
    anything to hide.

    In that case: Let's move your bed to the front room, remove the curtains, have intercourse in broad dailight in front of a passing crowd and lets get rid of toilets and just poop in a bucket in the middle of the office.

    Privacy does not mean seclusion from observation because you are doin anything wrong, it is a deeply personal right AND in a more fundement way the only moment we can truly be ourselves.

    When people tell me that I am silly for being concerned about the governme any other group tracking everything I do and accessing my data, I ask them allow me to go through their phone. I tell them that the government is ju people, like me, and if they are comfortable with strangers rifling throug data, then surely they should be comfortable with someone they know and tr more.

    Haven't had anyone hand over their phone to me so far...

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ž Synchronet ž MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org

    This has to be the finest examples of privacy that I've read yet. 100% GOLD.

    It's funny how someone doesn't want one person looking through their phone or computer, or bugging their home, but they will happily allow big tech access
    to their information and monitor their every move, and have Elexa listening
    24 hours a day.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to multiplemiggs on Tuesday, April 13, 2021 08:29:47
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: multiplemiggs to Boraxman on Tue Apr 13 2021 12:14 am

    access to their information and monitor their every move, and have Elexa listening 24 hours a day.

    What is Elexa? Is that some new digital assistant?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Nightfox on Tuesday, April 13, 2021 12:13:40
    What is Elexa? Is that some new digital assistant?


    Ask your doctor if Elexa is right for you!

    * warning, side effects may include: a loss of individuality,
    unresolvable existential crises, and an inability to pee.

    ---
    ­ Synchronet ­ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From multiplemiggs@VERT/BTTMLSS to Nightfox on Tuesday, April 13, 2021 16:49:00
    On 13 Apr 2021, Nightfox said the following...

    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: multiplemiggs to Boraxman on Tue Apr 13 2021 12:14 am

    access to their information and monitor their every move, and have El listening 24 hours a day.

    What is Elexa? Is that some new digital assistant?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

    Alexa. I got the spelling wrong.

    It's that contraption put out by Amazon so that you can voluntarily have your house bugged. The perks are that you can talk to it if you're lonely or something and have it google stuff for you if you're too lazy to type it in.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From Knightbbs@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Underminer on Friday, April 16, 2021 02:06:20
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Tue Apr 13 2021 12:13 pm

    * warning, side effects may include: a loss of individuality, unresolvable existential crises, and an inability to pee.

    It's Amazon, you can always pee in a bottle at work.

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to Knightbbs on Friday, April 16, 2021 14:35:05
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: Knightbbs to Underminer on Fri Apr 16 2021 02:06 am

    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Tue Apr 13 2021 12:13 pm

    * warning, side effects may include: a loss of individuality, unresolvable existential crises, and an inability to pee.

    It's Amazon, you can always pee in a bottle at work.

    Hahaha, I've seen many articles now about Amazon drivers bringing with them essential personal issue equipment such as an empty 2L bottle with them to work. Appalling work conditions!

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Knightbbs on Saturday, April 17, 2021 08:21:18
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: Knightbbs to Underminer on Fri Apr 16 2021 02:06 am

    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: Underminer to Nightfox on Tue Apr 13 2021 12:13 pm

    * warning, side effects may include: a loss of individuality, unresolvable existential crises, and an inability to pee.

    It's Amazon, you can always pee in a bottle at work.

    yeah that never happened.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Knightbbs@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Sunday, April 18, 2021 02:34:54
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: MRO to Knightbbs on Sat Apr 17 2021 08:21 am

    It's Amazon, you can always pee in a bottle at work.
    yeah that never happened.

    I don't know. I've heard first hand that the working conditions in the Amazon warehouses are poor. Friend of mine worked there and complained about the lack of heating and such. I think a lot of these big tech companies (Uber, Amazon etc) treat employees like cattle.y

    ---
    ž Synchronet ž War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Knightbbs on Sunday, April 18, 2021 06:38:57
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: Knightbbs to MRO on Sun Apr 18 2021 02:34 am

    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: MRO to Knightbbs on Sat Apr 17 2021 08:21 am

    It's Amazon, you can always pee in a bottle at work.
    yeah that never happened.

    I don't know. I've heard first hand that the working conditions in the Amazon warehouses are poor. Friend of mine worked there and complained about the lack of heating and such. I think a lot of these big tech companies (Uber, Amazon etc) treat employees like cattle.y

    i worked at amazon for extra cash a few years ago. it's the same as any fulfillment job. it's not hard work. they have a lot of perks and great insurance. after 1 year you can get a college education for decent fields paid for by amazon and take classes right on campus.

    they use the same time tracking system all over the world. the exact same. everything is timed but it's not that bad. if you have to go take a shit, you're good. if you're drinking a lot of water and have to go take a piss for 5 mins every hour you're good. if you are gone for an hour THAT will get you in trouble.

    during covid they also did really high pay incentives.

    amazon's not a bad place to work with. you arent cattle but you are a worker drone. they also fucked up my first paycheck and i got over 1k for working 1 day. you get lots of paid time off plus vacation plus unpaid time off. you get an extra day of paid time off every 2-3 weeks i believe.

    the problem is that today people don't want to work. they want to sit at home and get high. all i did was scan shit and put it into a pod. anybody can do that. no heavy lifting just standing in the same area.
    ---
    ž Synchronet ž ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Knightbbs on Monday, April 19, 2021 15:18:00
    Knightbbs wrote to MRO <=-

    @VIA: VERT/ENSEMBLE
    @MSGID: <607BE11E.28645.dove-general@warensemble.com>
    @REPLY: <607AE0CE.4398.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: Re: privacy, not a big de
    By: MRO to Knightbbs on Sat Apr 17 2021 08:21 am

    I don't know. I've heard first hand that the working conditions in
    the Amazon warehouses are poor. Friend of mine worked there and
    complained about the lack of heating and such. I think a lot of
    these big tech companies (Uber, Amazon etc) treat employees like
    cattle.

    Why wouldn't they? They know they can because if they lose one employee
    they can gain two. Ultimately, for them it is all about efficiency and
    cost savings and nothing more. Working for Amazon Corporate, AWS, or
    one of its subsidiaries, completely different story.


    Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
    Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
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