• Advice on the best drive emulator?

    From Kenzo@3:770/3 to All on Friday, May 06, 2022 07:56:36
    Can anyone recommend the preferred drive emulator for making use of .d64 files? I want to run the .d64 files on my 128 after I have downloaded onto my windows PC.
    I see various hardware on the Bay but not sure which will work on a 128 in either mode.

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  • From Daniel Path@2:371/52 to Kenzo on Friday, May 06, 2022 19:54:55
    Hello Kenzo,

    06 May 22 07:56, you wrote to All:

    I want to run the .d64 files on my 128 after I have downloaded onto my windows PC.
    I see various hardware on the Bay but not sure which will work on a
    128 in either mode.

    SD2IEC works perfectly with a c128, but i think any other device will do. :)

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... 9:49pm up 32 days, 9:56:24, load: 78 processes, 281 threads.
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  • From =?UTF-8?B?UGF1bCBGw7Zyc3Rlcg==?=@3:770/3 to All on Friday, May 06, 2022 19:42:45
    Hi,

    On 06. May, 2022 at 09:54:55 CEST, "Daniel Path" <Daniel Path> wrote:

    SD2IEC works perfectly with a c128, but i think any other device will do. :)

    I second that. I love my SD2IEC. 👍

    Cheers
    Paul

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  • From Kenzo@3:770/3 to All on Friday, May 06, 2022 15:06:36
    On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 12:42:48 PM UTC-7, Paul Förster wrote:
    Hi,
    On 06. May, 2022 at 09:54:55 CEST, "Daniel Path" <Daniel Path> wrote:

    SD2IEC works perfectly with a c128, but i think any other device will do. :)
    I second that. I love my SD2IEC. 👍

    Cheers
    Paul
    So my physical 1541 prevents the C128 from completing boot up when the drive is powered on and serial cable connected. If I kill the power to the drive while the 128 boot up is hung, the 128 completes booting. Same if I disconnect the serial cable
    while the 128 is hung on bootup. And the drive does not respond to load command, 128 reports drive not ready.

    I opened the drive case, board is internally very clean, and no burnt or bloated caps. I am guessing one or more of the logic chips is bad. Looks like the MOS chips are from 1984. I am using an aftermarket serial cable, the cable pins look correct
    when compared to online pics, and continuity pin to pin on each end is good. I guess these serial cables are supposed to be pin to pin straight wired.

    If I get some ambition in the next few days, I will use my scope to check for activity on the logic chips. My understanding is that with the scope ground on a chip ground and scope lead on address or data pins, I should see high speed voltage
    oscillation, indicating logic activity...

    Hate to give up on all my floppies, even if I pick up an emulator...

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  • From Andreas Kohlbach@3:770/3 to All on Friday, May 06, 2022 19:20:18
    On 6 May 2022 19:42:45 GMT, Paul Förster wrote:

    On 06. May, 2022 at 09:54:55 CEST, "Daniel Path" <Daniel Path> wrote:

    SD2IEC works perfectly with a c128, but i think any other device will do. :)

    I second that. I love my SD2IEC. 👍

    I should have a look at SD2IEC.

    Would had recommended VICE, which emulated the C128, C64, PET,
    VIC-20... And accepts .d64 files among others.
    --
    Andreas

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?UGF1bCBGw7Zyc3Rlcg==?=@3:770/3 to All on Saturday, May 07, 2022 11:27:19
    Hi Andreas,

    On 07. May, 2022 at 01:20:18 CEST, "Andreas Kohlbach" <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
    I should have a look at SD2IEC.

    Would had recommended VICE, which emulated the C128, C64, PET,
    VIC-20... And accepts .d64 files among others.

    yes, I highly recommend both, the SD2IEC solution to replace a physical drive, and VICE for emulation.

    If you use a Mac, there's also VirtualC64 and vAmiga, but these are C64 and Amiga only, hence excluding the other Commodore 8-Bit machines.

    https://vice-emu.sourceforge.io
    https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/SD2IEC

    Cheers
    Paul

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?UGF1bCBGw7Zyc3Rlcg==?=@3:770/3 to Kenzo on Saturday, May 07, 2022 11:43:33
    Hi Kenzo,

    On 07. May, 2022 at 00:06:36 CEST, "Kenzo" <kjambrose@gmail.com> wrote:
    So my physical 1541 prevents the C128 from completing boot up when the drive is powered on and serial cable connected. If I kill the power to the drive while the 128 boot up is hung, the 128 completes booting. Same if I disconnect
    the serial cable while the 128 is hung on bootup. And the drive does not respond to load command, 128 reports drive not ready.

    I opened the drive case, board is internally very clean, and no burnt or bloated caps. I am guessing one or more of the logic chips is bad. Looks like the MOS chips are from 1984. I am using an aftermarket serial cable, the cable
    pins look correct when compared to online pics, and continuity pin to pin on each end is good. I guess these serial cables are supposed to be pin to pin straight wired.

    If I get some ambition in the next few days, I will use my scope to check for activity on the logic chips. My understanding is that with the scope ground on
    a chip ground and scope lead on address or data pins, I should see high speed voltage oscillation, indicating logic activity...

    Hate to give up on all my floppies, even if I pick up an emulator...

    The usual suspects are:

    1. Bad power supply of the external drive.

    2. If you have a 128D, you may have a drive number conflict. The internal
    drive is #8. If the external drive doesn't have some other number assigned (usually #9), then you will most likely experience exactly such symptoms.

    3. The drive cable has a reset line (see below). Usually, it's wired through, but I have seen few few cables which have no connection there. Considering
    your described symptoms, it may make sense to try with a cable that does NOT connect the reset line. The downside is that pushing the reset button on the C128 or even powering it down and up again will not make the drive notice any change. If you want to reset the drive too, you'd have to do that separately then.

    Reset is on Pin 6:
    see http://www.hardwarebook.info/Commodore_Serial_I/O

    Cheers
    Paul

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  • From Kenzo@3:770/3 to All on Saturday, May 07, 2022 20:57:00
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:43:36 AM UTC-7, Paul Förster wrote:
    Hi Kenzo,
    On 07. May, 2022 at 00:06:36 CEST, "Kenzo" <kjam...@gmail.com> wrote:
    So my physical 1541 prevents the C128 from completing boot up when the drive
    is powered on and serial cable connected. If I kill the power to the drive while the 128 boot up is hung, the 128 completes booting. Same if I disconnect
    the serial cable while the 128 is hung on bootup. And the drive does not respond to load command, 128 reports drive not ready.

    I opened the drive case, board is internally very clean, and no burnt or bloated caps. I am guessing one or more of the logic chips is bad. Looks like
    the MOS chips are from 1984. I am using an aftermarket serial cable, the cable
    pins look correct when compared to online pics, and continuity pin to pin on
    each end is good. I guess these serial cables are supposed to be pin to pin
    straight wired.

    If I get some ambition in the next few days, I will use my scope to check for
    activity on the logic chips. My understanding is that with the scope ground on
    a chip ground and scope lead on address or data pins, I should see high speed
    voltage oscillation, indicating logic activity...

    Hate to give up on all my floppies, even if I pick up an emulator...
    The usual suspects are:

    1. Bad power supply of the external drive.

    2. If you have a 128D, you may have a drive number conflict. The internal drive is #8. If the external drive doesn't have some other number assigned (usually #9), then you will most likely experience exactly such symptoms.

    3. The drive cable has a reset line (see below). Usually, it's wired through,
    but I have seen few few cables which have no connection there. Considering your described symptoms, it may make sense to try with a cable that does NOT connect the reset line. The downside is that pushing the reset button on the C128 or even powering it down and up again will not make the drive notice any
    change. If you want to reset the drive too, you'd have to do that separately then.

    Reset is on Pin 6:
    see http://www.hardwarebook.info/Commodore_Serial_I/O

    Cheers
    Paul
    thanks paul,

    I also tried a commodore serial cable but still no luck for the first 1541 I tried. I had 3 other drives in storage which I retrieved and tested. A 1571, 1541, and 1541 II.

    The 1571 won't power up but using the same power supply the 1541 II works fine. And the second 1541 also works fine. So I have two drives working, but not the 1571 yet.

    And I had 4 computers in storage, a 64 and three original type128s. The 64 powers up, but composite connected monitor is blank. I have to do some research for that. Maybe the 64 does not output composite video?

    The three 128s all work fine. Next I will try the two 1764 ram expansion modules. The one I have that was boxed comes with a commodore higher powered power supply. I will check the output voltages before powering up with it.

    So now that I can read disks, I guess the next step is to clean and lube the drives, and then figure out a way to convert the physical floppies to .d64 files, since I don't expect the drives to work forever.

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?UGF1bCBGw7Zyc3Rlcg==?=@3:770/3 to Kenzo on Sunday, May 08, 2022 05:28:09
    Hi Kenzo,

    On 08. May, 2022 at 05:57:00 CEST, "Kenzo" <kjambrose@gmail.com> wrote:
    The 1571 won't power up but using the same power supply the 1541 II works fine. And the second 1541 also works fine. So I have two drives working, but not the 1571 yet.

    I'm not sure that you can use a 1541-II power supply with a 1571. I'd do some research before trying that because a bad power supply can not only not power up the attached device correctly but it can kill it. So I'd be careful when trying a Commodore power supply with a different device than what it was built for. You should basically always assume that Commodore power supplies are NOT interchangeable between devices.

    And I had 4 computers in storage, a 64 and three original type128s. The 64 powers up, but composite connected monitor is blank. I have to do some research for that. Maybe the 64 does not output composite video?

    The C64 has a composite signal. It's pin 4 of the connector.

    See: http://www.hardwarebook.info/C128/C64C_Video

    But your VIC chip may be fried (or the monitor of course). Or it may suffer from a bad connection. It's hard to say without detailed info. I suggest
    taking the VIC chip out and clean the contacts, then put it back in. This can be easily done if the chip sits in a socket. If it's soldered in then you may have some soldering to do. But instead of soldering it back in I would put in
    a socket.

    The three 128s all work fine. Next I will try the two 1764 ram expansion modules. The one I have that was boxed comes with a commodore higher powered power supply. I will check the output voltages before powering up with it.

    I can't comment on the 1764. I never had one of those.

    So now that I can read disks, I guess the next step is to clean and lube the drives, and then figure out a way to convert the physical floppies to .d64 files, since I don't expect the drives to work forever.

    Most things are on the web already in d64 format. You'd have to search hard
    for some things, though. But if you want to do the conversion yourself, then there are several options, of which I can recomment two:

    1) if you want to do it on the C64/C128, then use method 4 of:

    https://diginoodles.com/writing/media-production/transferring-commodore-64-disks-to-modern-formats

    2) get a Star Commander cable and connect the drive to a PC running DOS. Then you can use the Star Commander:
    https://sta.c64.org/sc.html

    Though the second option is very comfortable and reminiscent of the well known Norton Commander, it requires an old PC running DOS and having a parallel
    port. You'd also need to aquire one of the X1541 flavor of cables. It's all documented on the Star Commander homepage.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers
    Paul

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  • From Robert Roland@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, May 08, 2022 13:44:25
    On 8 May 2022 05:28:09 GMT, Paul Frster <paul.foerster@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    I suggest
    taking the VIC chip out and clean the contacts, then put it back in. This can >be easily done if the chip sits in a socket. If it's soldered in then you may >have some soldering to do.

    From what I understand, the VIC2 is always in a socket. It is,
    however, likely to be one of those cheap single-wipe types which are
    notorious for having bad connections.
    --
    RoRo

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  • From Robert Roland@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, May 08, 2022 13:41:02
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:57:00 -0700 (PDT), Kenzo <kjambrose@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    The 1571 won't power up but using the same power supply the 1541 II works fine.

    Wait. What?

    The 1571 has a built-in power supply. It is powered directly from the
    mains wall socket.

    You didn't plug the power supply into one of the IEC ports, did you?
    --
    RoRo

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  • From Kenzo@3:770/3 to Robert Roland on Sunday, May 08, 2022 06:35:53
    On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 4:44:24 AM UTC-7, Robert Roland wrote:
    On 8 May 2022 05:28:09 GMT, Paul Förster <paul.f...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    I suggest
    taking the VIC chip out and clean the contacts, then put it back in. This can
    be easily done if the chip sits in a socket. If it's soldered in then you may
    have some soldering to do.
    From what I understand, the VIC2 is always in a socket. It is,
    however, likely to be one of those cheap single-wipe types which are notorious for having bad connections.
    --
    RoRo
    right, i misspoke about 1571, it is the first version and uses just iec power cord. but it won't power up. I have book on trouble shooting and repairing C64, but since I now have three working 128s, fixing the C64 work will be on back burner, as will
    troubleshooting the 1571. First order of business I guess will be to convert all the physical floppies to d64, and get the ram expansion running with GEOS.

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  • From Kenzo@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, May 08, 2022 10:28:34
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:28:11 PM UTC-7, Paul Förster wrote:
    Hi Kenzo,
    On 08. May, 2022 at 05:57:00 CEST, "Kenzo" <kjam...@gmail.com> wrote:
    The 1571 won't power up but using the same power supply the 1541 II works fine. And the second 1541 also works fine. So I have two drives working, but
    not the 1571 yet.
    I'm not sure that you can use a 1541-II power supply with a 1571. I'd do some
    research before trying that because a bad power supply can not only not power
    up the attached device correctly but it can kill it. So I'd be careful when trying a Commodore power supply with a different device than what it was built
    for. You should basically always assume that Commodore power supplies are NOT
    interchangeable between devices.
    And I had 4 computers in storage, a 64 and three original type128s. The 64 powers up, but composite connected monitor is blank. I have to do some research for that. Maybe the 64 does not output composite video?
    The C64 has a composite signal. It's pin 4 of the connector.

    See: http://www.hardwarebook.info/C128/C64C_Video

    But your VIC chip may be fried (or the monitor of course). Or it may suffer from a bad connection. It's hard to say without detailed info. I suggest taking the VIC chip out and clean the contacts, then put it back in. This can
    be easily done if the chip sits in a socket. If it's soldered in then you may
    have some soldering to do. But instead of soldering it back in I would put in
    a socket.
    The three 128s all work fine. Next I will try the two 1764 ram expansion modules. The one I have that was boxed comes with a commodore higher powered
    power supply. I will check the output voltages before powering up with it.
    I can't comment on the 1764. I never had one of those.
    So now that I can read disks, I guess the next step is to clean and lube the
    drives, and then figure out a way to convert the physical floppies to .d64 files, since I don't expect the drives to work forever.
    Most things are on the web already in d64 format. You'd have to search hard for some things, though. But if you want to do the conversion yourself, then there are several options, of which I can recomment two:

    1) if you want to do it on the C64/C128, then use method 4 of:

    https://diginoodles.com/writing/media-production/transferring-commodore-64-disks-to-modern-formats

    2) get a Star Commander cable and connect the drive to a PC running DOS. Then
    you can use the Star Commander:
    https://sta.c64.org/sc.html

    Though the second option is very comfortable and reminiscent of the well known
    Norton Commander, it requires an old PC running DOS and having a parallel port. You'd also need to aquire one of the X1541 flavor of cables. It's all documented on the Star Commander homepage.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers
    Paul
    Zoomfloppy? Looks great for converting physical floppies to D64 copies in windows and reverse?

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  • From xxxx@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, May 08, 2022 20:38:49
    Can anyone recommend the preferred drive emulator for making use of .d64 files?
    I want to run the .d64 files on my 128 after I have downloaded onto my windows PC.
    I see various hardware on the Bay but not sure which will work on a 128 in either mode.

    You should try Pi1541 is much compatible than SDIEC

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  • From Robert Roland@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, May 08, 2022 22:13:19
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 10:28:34 -0700 (PDT), Kenzo <kjambrose@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Zoomfloppy? Looks great for converting physical floppies to D64 copies in windows and reverse?

    I have a Zoomfloppy. I definitely recommend it.

    The accompanying software (OpenCBM) does not provide a GUI, but there
    are 3rd party solutions available for free. I use cbm-transfer.
    --
    RoRo

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  • From Robert Roland@3:770/3 to All on Sunday, May 08, 2022 23:03:32
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 06:35:53 -0700 (PDT), Kenzo <kjambrose@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    it won't power up

    It is likely that the power supply has failed.

    The 1571 has a very simple linear power supply. It should be easy to
    fix.

    There is even a fuse, winch needs checking.

    Also, the solder joints for the transformer can crack. The transformer
    is heavy, and there is nothing other than the solder joints holding
    it.

    Be careful with mains voltage, though.
    --
    RoRo

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  • From Kenzo@3:770/3 to Robert Roland on Sunday, May 08, 2022 14:48:11
    On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 2:03:31 PM UTC-7, Robert Roland wrote:
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 06:35:53 -0700 (PDT), Kenzo <kjam...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    it won't power up

    It is likely that the power supply has failed.

    The 1571 has a very simple linear power supply. It should be easy to
    fix.

    There is even a fuse, winch needs checking.

    Also, the solder joints for the transformer can crack. The transformer
    is heavy, and there is nothing other than the solder joints holding
    it.

    Be careful with mains voltage, though.
    --
    RoRo
    Thanks, I ordered a zoomfloppy today.
    Regarding the 1571 I should just replace the linear power supply with an SMPS. If the fuse is blown there must have been a reason. There is a meanwell that is a good match. And there are 4 electrolytics on the logic board that should also be replaced.
    If I later find the heads are bad, I can use the SMPS for a different project...

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?UGF1bCBGw7Zyc3Rlcg==?=@3:770/3 to Robert Roland on Thursday, May 12, 2022 15:41:12
    Hi Robert,

    On 08. May, 2022 at 13:44:25 CEST, "Robert Roland" <fake@ddress.no> wrote:
    From what I understand, the VIC2 is always in a socket. It is,
    however, likely to be one of those cheap single-wipe types which are notorious for having bad connections.

    I don't know if it always sits in a socket. If so, the easier is it to take care of it. Sometimes it also helps to check the soldering of either the
    socket and/or the chip.

    Cheers,
    Paul

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  • From phigan@3:770/3 to Kenzo on Friday, May 13, 2022 11:52:25
    On 2022-05-08, Kenzo <kjambrose@gmail.com> wrote:
    Thanks, I ordered a zoomfloppy today.

    I'm really liking this thread.

    Just wanted to chime in that I too have a C64 that powers on with just a
    black screen. I tried changing out the VIC and that made no difference.
    Even tested the original as well as relacement VICs in a known good
    system, and they both work fine. The first suggestion I got was to try replacing the PLA, which I did, and also made no difference (also tested
    that in the known good system). I don't _see_ any issues with any of the
    caps on the board, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any.

    I'd be very interested to hear what's causing yours to do the same if
    you should find out :).

    Jelly of your C= collection! Never had a 128.

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  • From Kenzo@3:770/3 to phigan on Friday, May 13, 2022 07:06:16
    On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 4:52:29 AM UTC-7, phigan wrote:
    On 2022-05-08, Kenzo <kjam...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Thanks, I ordered a zoomfloppy today.
    I'm really liking this thread.

    Just wanted to chime in that I too have a C64 that powers on with just a black screen. I tried changing out the VIC and that made no difference.
    Even tested the original as well as relacement VICs in a known good
    system, and they both work fine. The first suggestion I got was to try replacing the PLA, which I did, and also made no difference (also tested that in the known good system). I don't _see_ any issues with any of the caps on the board, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any.

    I'd be very interested to hear what's causing yours to do the same if
    you should find out :).

    Jelly of your C= collection! Never had a 128.
    One book I have says a bad 6502 can also cause a black screen. I guess the moral of your story is you really have to troubleshoot electrically, just replacing arbitrary chips is not guaranteed to solve the problem. I have the documentation and
    equipment so I will be doing that soon and will update progress here.

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  • From Andreas Kohlbach@3:770/3 to phigan on Friday, May 13, 2022 15:18:33
    On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:52:25 -0000 (UTC), phigan wrote:

    On 2022-05-08, Kenzo <kjambrose@gmail.com> wrote:
    Thanks, I ordered a zoomfloppy today.

    I'm really liking this thread.

    Just wanted to chime in that I too have a C64 that powers on with just a black screen. I tried changing out the VIC and that made no difference.
    Even tested the original as well as relacement VICs in a known good
    system, and they both work fine. The first suggestion I got was to try replacing the PLA, which I did, and also made no difference (also tested
    that in the known good system). I don't _see_ any issues with any of the
    caps on the board, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any.

    I'd be very interested to hear what's causing yours to do the same if
    you should find out :).

    If there are no other solution I recommend Adrian's Digital Basement on Youtube. He appears to be a specialist when it comes to the C64 - and I remember he had to deal with a lot of "black screeners" and always found
    the culprit.

    Jelly of your C= collection! Never had a 128.

    Neither did I. A friend had and I was envious. Probably because of the
    shape of the shell, as we usually booted into C64 mode and did things a
    C64 can do itself.
    --
    Andreas

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  • From Robert Roland@3:770/3 to phigan@bbs.penisys.cf on Friday, May 13, 2022 22:20:55
    On Fri, 13 May 2022 11:52:25 -0000 (UTC), phigan
    <phigan@bbs.penisys.cf> wrote:

    a C64 that powers on with just a
    black screen

    The most useful tool for troubleshooting a black screen C64, is the
    Dead Test Cartridge. Note that a black screen and a blank screen are fundamentally different.

    Throwing parts at it is a lottery. If you want to continue the
    lottery, the RAM chips are a very common fault. The bad news is,
    there's eight of them (or two if you have a later revision). Leave the
    computer on for a minute or two and check for hot RAM chips. If they
    get hot, they are definitely bad, but they can also be bad if they are
    not getting hot. The Dead Test can sometimes tell you which specific
    RAM chip is bad.

    Another common problem is the power switch. It switches both the 5 V
    DC and the 9 V AC. If the 5 V DC is not working, you will get a black
    screen on the earlier revision (the longboards).

    Have you checked voltages? That should come before even the Dead Test.
    --
    RoRo

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