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  • A fifth table :)

    From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/1 to All on Monday, October 05, 2026 14:09:04

    Hi, All!


    In "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire", by J. K. Rowling I read:

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    The Great Hall looked its usual splendid self, decorated for the
    start of term feast. Golden plates and goblets gleamed by the
    light of hundreds and hundreds of candles, floating over the
    tables in midair. The four long House tables were packed with
    chattering students; at the top of the Hall, the staff sat along
    one side of a fifth table, facing their pupils.
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    Taking into account "The four long House tables" why she wrote "the staff sat along one side of a fifth table"? Why "a fifth table"?

    Bye, All!
    Alexander Koryagin

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Alexander Koryagin on Monday, October 05, 2026 10:50:50
    Hi, Alexander -- on Oct 05 2026 at 14:09, you wrote:

    Taking into account "The four long House tables" why she wrote "the
    staff sat along one side of a fifth table"? Why "a fifth table"?

    Traditionally in English universities, students sit at a number of long tables with a raised table at right angles to them for the
    staff/teachers/professors.

    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/1 to Dallas Hinton on Tuesday, October 06, 2026 09:18:28

    Hi, Dallas Hinton!
    I read your message from 05.10.2026 10:50
    Taking into account "The four long House tables" why she
    wrote "the staff sat along one side of a fifth table"? Why
    "a fifth table"?
    Traditionally in English universities, students sit at a number
    of long ??tables with a raised table at right angles to them
    for the staff/teachers/professors.

    What would have changed if she put "the fifth table"?

    -------------
    The four long House tables were packed with
    chattering students; at the top of the Hall, the staff sat along
    one side of THE fifth table, facing their pupils.
    -------------

    Bye, Dallas!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2026

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Alexander Koryagin on Tuesday, October 06, 2026 07:47:30

    On 2026 Oct 06 09:18:28, you wrote to Dallas Hinton:

    @BBSID: RBB

    Hi, Dallas Hinton!
    I read your message from 05.10.2026 10:50
    Taking into account "The four long House tables" why she
    wrote "the staff sat along one side of a fifth table"? Why
    "a fifth table"?
    Traditionally in English universities, students sit at a number
    of long ??tables with a raised table at right angles to them
    for the staff/teachers/professors.

    What would have changed if she put "the fifth table"?

    -------------
    The four long House tables were packed with
    chattering students; at the top of the Hall, the staff sat along
    one side of THE fifth table, facing their pupils.
    -------------

    to me, this is because there could have been more than one table that could be used as a "fifth" table...

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... No flu shot, I'm counting on excessive garlic consumption to be healthy. ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Alexander Koryagin on Tuesday, October 06, 2026 08:22:46
    Hi, Alexander -- on Oct 06 2026 at 09:18, you wrote:

    What would have changed if she put "the fifth table"?

    -------------
    The four long House tables were packed with
    chattering students; at the top of the Hall, the staff sat along one
    side of THE fifth table, facing their pupils.
    -------------

    I think you're trying to read far too much into this section. It's a simple description of a 4 table plus head table seating area.


    Cheers... Dallas

    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/360 to Alexander Koryagin on Sunday, October 25, 2026 02:05:56
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Taking into account "The four long House tables" why
    she wrote "the staff sat along one side of a fifth
    table"? Why "a fifth table"?

    Because it is a synomym for /another table/ .

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/360.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/1 to Anton Shepelev on Tuesday, October 27, 2026 09:35:08

    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 25.10.2026 03:05
    Taking into account "The four long House tables" why
    she wrote "the staff sat along one side of a fifth
    table"? Why "a fifth table"?
    Because it is a synomym for /another table/ .

    I seems to me that "THE four long House tables" are logically connected with the fifth table. The author probably could say that the staff sat at A table in the hall corner. But she made the staff table unique. We have the four tables for the students and the fifth table for the staff. Look another example:

    I saw five children playing in the court yard. The four of them played football, the fifth boy was a referee.

    PS: Not "a fifth boy"!
    PSS: I believe that "referee" can be with "THE" or without article at all. ;-)

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2026

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Alexander Koryagin on Thursday, November 12, 2026 23:20:16
    Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Anton Shepelev:

    I seems to me that "THE four long House tables" are logically
    connected with the fifth table.


    To an old schoolteacher they definitely are. Hogwarts is a boarding school, where the teachers must keep an eye on the students at mealtimes. :-))



    The author probably could say that the staff sat at A table
    in the hall corner.


    In your original citation you said "along one side of a fifth table" l... which makes sense to me. As a Canadian whose family was of modest means, I never attended a British-style private school. I've read fictional accounts of how schoolgirls clambered down the ivy at night to solve mysteries, though, and I've had enough experience with English ivy to find it quite believable that it could support the weight of a few teeny boppers after +\-400 years... [grin].

    I don't have enough personal experience with such matters to realize immediately that there must be five tables altogether unless the author says so in advance. OTOH "The Twelve Days of Christmas" (see below) will be recognized by many native speakers of English because it's the name of a traditional song.



    But she made the staff table unique. We have the four tables
    for the students and the fifth table for the staff.


    The staff table is unique because the folks seated at right angles to the kids can't have their view blocked by folks on the other side of the table.

    I'd reserve "the" for situations where there is an obvious accounting of numbers. When I sing "On the first day of Christmas" I understand there are twelve altogether & what we refer to as Twelfth Night is what Russians call the Feast of the Nativity because you guys prefer to use a Julian calendar.... :-Q



    I saw five children playing in the court yard.


    Okay. Four of them did blah blah while the fifth did something else. And I agree that an article may or may not be needed with "referee" here. :-)




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)