• Quotes

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to ALL on Thursday, January 13, 2022 16:34:58
    Hello Everybody,

    "War is politics by other means."
    ~ Carl Von Clausewitz, historian

    "There is a winter, you know, in Russia. ... Hitler forgot about
    this Russian winter. He must have been very loosely educated."
    ~ Winston Churchill, after the German army's 1941-1942 winter there

    "Whenever avoidance of war has been the primary objective of a
    group of powers, the international system has been at the mercy
    of its most ruthless member."
    ~ Finnish President Sauli Niinisto, 1 January 2022

    Neville Chamberlain remains almost as famous as Adolf Hitler.

    "We have shown that we have learnt from the past. We will not let
    go of our room for maneuver."
    ~ Finnish President Sauli Niinisto, 1 January 2022

    Finland showed the invading Soviet army what it could do in the
    1939-1940 Winter War. Perhaps Vladmimir Putin needed a reminder?

    In 1975, in Finland, 35 nations (including the Soviet Union)
    got together and signed the Helsinki Final Act. All 35 nations,
    including the Soviet Union, affirmed "rights inherent in and
    encompassed by (each nation's) sovereignty" - including "the
    right to be ... party to treaties of alliance."

    Oh well. So much for Vladimir Putin's complaint about NATO.

    "This is the last territorial demand I have to make in Europe."
    ~ Adolf Hitler, 26 September 1938 (four days before the 30 September
    1938 Munich conference ratified the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia)

    And Italians had thought Pinocchio had a long nose.

    "Do not believe those who want you to fear Russia, shouting that
    other regions will follow Crimea. We do not want to divide Ukraine,
    we do not need that."
    ~ Vladimir Putin, 18 March 2014

    Seems like Vladimir Putin also has a very long nose. But then,
    what his definition of "need" is may be very different from others,
    as his own "needs" tend to mutate. And being king of the hill, he
    feels entitled to seize whatever he needs.

    The Brezhnev Doctrine stipulated that communism's advances must
    be irreversible. But there is no more communism. And there is no
    more Soviet Union. So what we have now is the Putin Doctrine -
    that Russia is forever entitled to a sphere of influence over other
    nations. Kind of like a modern updated version of the Soviet Union.

    "We are no longer in Yalta times. Spheres of influence for two
    big powers do not belong" in 2022.
    ~ Josep Borrell, the European Union's principal foreign policy
    official, just prior to the US-Russia negotiations about Ukraine

    At the Yalta Conference (February 1945) FDR, Stalin, and Churchill
    negotiated the postwar settlement of Europe. Nobody else had a say
    in the matter.

    Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the deciders
    of Europe's future. Which side will get which settlements. That sort
    of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was invited to play in this round.

    I wonder which countries in Europe that Russia will be allowed
    to have (or keep)? I wonder which countries in Europe that the USA
    will be allow to have (or keep)?

    We all know what countries Neville Chamberlain was allowed to have.
    We all know what countries Joe Biden will be allowed to have.
    But how many countries will Vladimir Putin allow himself to have?

    Churchill's list for Stalin's Russia -
    Romania 90%
    Bulgaria 75%
    Yugoslavia 50%
    Hungary 50%
    Greece 10%

    Would FDR have repudiated Churchill's letter had it been sent?
    Dead men tell no tales. But live ones most certainly do.

    --Lee

    --
    Always in beta

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, January 14, 2022 10:51:43
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 13.01.2022 18:34

    LL> Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
    LL> deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
    LL> settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
    LL> invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
    LL> Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
    LL> wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
    LL> have (or keep)?

    Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to join
    with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO.
    ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 14, 2022 04:50:30
    Hello, alexander!

    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 13.01.2022 18:34

    Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
    deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
    settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
    invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
    Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
    wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
    have (or keep)?

    Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer
    to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to
    join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

    Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange revolution).

    "Kharkov Accords": The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.

    Ghil.

    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Bj├╢rn Felten@2:203/2 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Friday, January 14, 2022 11:15:02
    in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.

    Once again this destructive fossil fuel industry, that keep on causing so much harm to our planet, reared it's ugly head. :-(



    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Friday, January 14, 2022 12:45:47
    Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange revolution).

    I wonder if I'm the only to whom this sounds so ridiculous ... Leave the people alone ...

    "Kharkov Accords": The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017
    until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural
    gas.

    But Russia invaded Crimea, right? So the whole idea of Kharkov Accords becomes moot. No?

    Why even require naval facilities in the Black Sea? It's not as if another seafaring power could invade it unnoticed ... No?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Friday, January 14, 2022 16:50:20
    Hello, Ward!

    But Russia invaded Crimea, right? So the whole idea of Kharkov Accords becomes moot. No?

    Why even require naval facilities in the Black Sea? It's not as if
    another seafaring power could invade it unnoticed ... No?

    The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case Ukraine decided to join NATO.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Friday, January 14, 2022 23:22:31
    Ghil,

    The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case Ukraine decided to
    join NATO.

    A fleet there serves no purpose ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Saturday, January 15, 2022 01:35:04
    Hello, alexander!

    Friday January 14 2022 10:51, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer
    to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to

    NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway.. They are very close.
    Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is alone in his bunker.. ;)


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Friday, January 14, 2022 17:33:26
    Hello, Ward!

    The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th
    century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case
    Ukraine decided to join NATO.

    A fleet there serves no purpose ...

    It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
    Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Saturday, January 15, 2022 01:43:40
    Hello, Ghil!

    Friday January 14 2022 17:33, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th
    century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case
    Ukraine decided to join NATO.

    A fleet there serves no purpose ...

    It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.

    Turkey could easy block Russian fleet in Black See.

    Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern
    Fleet?

    Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Bj├╢rn Felten@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 14, 2022 23:53:10
    Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

    ROTFL :)

    Kursk...?



    ..

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  • From Bj├╢rn Felten@2:203/2 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Saturday, January 15, 2022 00:03:51
    Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

    Don't you worry about that. We'll take care of them in the narrow straits between Denmark and Sweden, like we've done since the Middle Ages.

    Unless they do a Whiskey on the Rocks and go aground, outside a Swedish naval base, in the Bleking archipelago...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363


    ..

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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Bj├╢rn Felten on Saturday, January 15, 2022 01:57:38
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, BjФrn!

    Friday January 14 2022 23:53, you wrote to me:

    Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink
    our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

    ROTFL :)

    Kursk...?

    It was a very terrible disaster :( Better examples:

    1. Crimean war (1853-1956). All Russian Black Sea fleet (more that 90 ships) was sunk by ourselves. Very proud about that, even got monument in Sevastopol.
    2. Japan war (1904-1905). Ships "Varyag" and "Koreets" we sunk by their crew, got very famous song how heroic they were (very proud!).
    3. World War I. We surrended to Germany and were forced to sunk all Black Sea fleet in 1918. About ~17 ships. We have monument for that event. Very proud!

    A couple of similar events...

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 14, 2022 18:17:50
    Hello, Dmitry!

    A fleet there serves no purpose ...

    It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.

    Turkey could easy block Russian fleet in Black See.

    According to a convention signed a long time ago Turkey controls the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Russia is a Black Sea state. And always wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility of the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Saturday, January 15, 2022 02:19:24
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ghil!

    Friday January 14 2022 18:17, you wrote to me:

    According to a convention signed a long time ago Turkey controls the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian
    vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Russia is a Black Sea state. And always

    Turkey is a NATO state, BTW.

    wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of
    Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility of
    the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational formation
    of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

    Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't exsists anymore as a single country.
    We've spent billions of dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of our biggest mistakes :(
    In USSR we were more happy to send tanks and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our citizens. What a shame!

    Best regards,
    dp.
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Saturday, January 15, 2022 00:30:21
    Ghil,

    It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
    Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern
    Fleet?

    Certainly for the Baltic as well.

    A Russian fleet in the Baltic and the Black Sea is by every definition in the book trapped by NATO should it ever get dirty ... no way to get out, commonly refered to as a turkey shoot.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 14, 2022 18:48:48
    Hello, Dmitry!

    wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of
    Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility
    of the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational
    formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

    Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't exsists anymore as a single country. We've spent billions of dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of our biggest mistakes :(
    In USSR we were more happy to send tanks and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our citizens. What a shame!

    And if Ukraine is a war zone why would The United States and its allies in NATO carrying out exercises in the Black Sea? Or if arming Ukraine could transform it into a failed state? Do you think the americans care about that using Ukraine to provoke Russia could mean the end of Ukraine in case of russian invasion?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Friday, January 14, 2022 18:56:44
    Hello, Ward!

    It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
    Would you say the same thing about Russia's
    Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

    Certainly for the Baltic as well.

    A Russian fleet in the Baltic and the Black Sea is by every definition
    in the book trapped by NATO should it ever get dirty ... no way to get out, commonly refered to as a turkey shoot.

    If they would do that... but they know they can't emerge victorious from this World War III.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Saturday, January 15, 2022 02:52:42
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ghil!

    Friday January 14 2022 18:48, you wrote to me:

    Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't
    exsists anymore as a single country. We've spent billions of
    dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of
    our biggest mistakes :( In USSR we were more happy to send tanks
    and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our
    citizens. What a shame!

    And if Ukraine is a war zone why would The United States and its
    allies in NATO carrying out exercises in the Black Sea? Or if arming

    NATO ships were in Black Sea since 50s at least. It's their right to be there. We've tried to get some Turkey's territory in 40s, this is a payback.

    Ukraine could transform it into a failed state? Do you think the

    Ukraine was mostly ok before Russian invasion. Syria collapsed without external help.

    americans care about that using Ukraine to provoke Russia could mean
    the end of Ukraine in case of russian invasion?

    Our problem is that we think more about USA than about our own citizens. My pension will be about 10x less than Ward's (and I am very optimistic person!)
    Why do you think I should be paid less? Because of Syria? I've been there 4 times, it's a shithole, we even have to pay for entry and exit visa! Unlike guys from Saudi Arabia, for example. It's just not fare.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Saturday, January 15, 2022 20:16:52
    Hello Alexander,

    Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
    deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
    settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
    invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
    Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
    wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
    have (or keep)?

    Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

    The talks have concluded.
    With nothing accomplished.
    Now it is time for Russia to make a decision.
    NATO claims membership is open to all countries that qualify.
    This is an open invitation to Vladimir Putin to put up or shut up.
    So how about it?
    Does Vladimir Putin want in?
    Or does Vladimir Putin want to remain on the sidelines?
    Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia.
    No weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia,
    as NATO would come down on them like a ton of bricks ...

    --Lee

    --
    Food for the Fun of It

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Saturday, January 15, 2022 22:41:57
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 14.01.2022 12:50

    LL>>> Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
    LL>>> deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
    LL>>> settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
    LL>>> invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in Europe
    LL>>> that Russia will be allowed?? to have (or keep)? I wonder which
    LL>>> countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to have (or keep)?

    ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become
    ak>> closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand
    ak>> Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will
    ak>> become closer to NATO. It would be 1:1 after the talks.

    GZ> Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there
    GZ> could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly
    GZ> Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange
    GZ> revolution).

    His point of view is that Russia is surrounded by enemies. From this
    point he can be understood. Suppose in Mexico some forces come to power
    who are against the USA. And they submit a request to Putin to make
    Mexico a part of Russia. ;-)

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Saturday, January 15, 2022 22:47:08
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 15.01.2022 01:35

    ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will
    ak>> become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he
    ak>> could demand Putin not to
    DP> NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway..
    DP> They are very close. Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is
    DP> alone in his bunker.. ;)

    He probably forgot about Baltic states. ;)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Saturday, January 15, 2022 23:08:38
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 15.01.2022 22:16

    LL>>> Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
    LL>>> deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
    LL>>> settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
    LL>>> invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in Europe
    LL>>> that Russia will be allowed?? to have (or keep)? I wonder which
    LL>>> countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to have (or keep)?

    ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become
    ak>> closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand
    ak>> Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will
    ak>> become closer to NATO. It would be 1:1 after the talks.

    LL> The talks have concluded. With nothing accomplished. Now it is time
    LL> for Russia to make a decision. NATO claims membership is open to
    LL> all countries that qualify. This is an open invitation to Vladimir
    LL> Putin to put up or shut up. So how about it? Does Vladimir Putin
    LL> want in? Or does Vladimir Putin want to remain on the sidelines?
    LL> Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia. No
    LL> weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia, as NATO
    LL> would come down on them like a ton of bricks...

    The Ukraine created a big problem, but the core of it is wild ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect twin of
    Czechoslovakia, the country populated with two nations. Yes, they didn't
    like each other, but they were civilized people, they had a few Nazi
    groups. The two countries peacefully divorced and now Czech Republic and Slovakia both live in peace and prosperity. It could not happen in
    Ukraine with its ultra-nationalists. Now Russian people in Ukraine is a conquered nation.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Saturday, January 15, 2022 23:13:14
    Hello, alexander!

    Saturday January 15 2022 22:47, you wrote to me:

    NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway..
    They are very close. Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is
    alone in his bunker.. ;)

    He probably forgot about Baltic states. ;)

    We are speding a lot of money for propaganda in Baltic states, he knows that :(

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sunday, January 16, 2022 07:19:20
    Hello Alexander,

    [..]

    Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia. No
    weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia, as NATO
    would come down on them like a ton of bricks...

    The Ukraine created a big problem, but the core of it is wild ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect twin of Czechoslovakia, the country populated with two nations.

    Home of two of the greatest personalities in the world - Havel,
    and Lendl. One was loved for his use of words. The other, for his
    use of a tennis racket.

    Yes, they didn't like each other, but they were civilized people, they had a
    few Nazi groups.

    In today's world such groups exist everywhere.

    The two countries peacefully divorced and now Czech Republic and
    Slovakia both live in peace and prosperity.

    After WWII all of Europe was in ruins. It was only after those
    countries had recovered (with help from both the USA and the former
    USSR) that real prosperity came to those countries.

    It could not happen in Ukraine with its ultra-nationalists.

    What a laughable statement that would have been up to a few
    days ago. Today, it is more of a somber reality. You see, some
    people in the USA are insane. Today insane. Such as Ted Cruz.
    Hard to imagine he is a US Senator. Nobody likes him. Even his
    own mother. Has a beard so nobody has to look at his ugly face.
    Anyway, he is so insane that he introduced legislation to put
    sanctions on Russia. For no other reason than just to do it.
    It did not go anywhere, as nobody in their right mind would
    even consider the measure. But we are not talking about people
    who are sane.

    Now Russian people in Ukraine is a conquered nation.

    I am not sure any people can be truly subjugated. A land may
    be conquered, but winning the hearts and minds of a people is
    a totally different story.

    Poland and Hungary have turned hard right. As well as other
    countries in central and eastern Europe. Are the people in those
    countries prisoners in their own land? What can they do, or be
    expected to do, to change the situation?

    One solution is dissolution. Refuse to play by dissolving the
    state. Each region would revert to being its own independent state.

    --Lee

    --
    More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:08:42
    Hello, Lee!

    Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
    deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
    settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
    invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
    Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
    wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
    have (or keep)?

    Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become
    closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand
    Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia
    will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks.
    ;)

    The talks have concluded.
    With nothing accomplished.
    Now it is time for Russia to make a decision.
    NATO claims membership is open to all countries that qualify.
    This is an open invitation to Vladimir Putin to put up or shut up.
    So how about it?
    Does Vladimir Putin want in?
    Or does Vladimir Putin want to remain on the sidelines?
    Just think about what membership in NATO would mean for Russia.
    No weak countries (such as Ukraine) would dare attack Russia,
    as NATO would come down on them like a ton of bricks ...

    All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade Ukraine. There is no way to know the outcome of any war.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, January 17, 2022 09:39:13
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 16.01.2022 09:19

    ak>> ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect twin of
    ak>> Czechoslovakia, the country populated with two nations.
    <skipped>
    ak>> The two countries peacefully divorced and now Czech Republic and
    ak>> Slovakia both live in peace and prosperity.

    LL> After WWII all of Europe was in ruins. It was only after those
    LL> countries had recovered (with help from both the USA and the former
    LL> USSR) that real prosperity came to those countries.

    I speak about present days. People of Czechoslovakia became free after Perestroika in the USSR, and they decided their destiny without each
    other humiliation. They are a good example of civilized people. In the
    world vocabulary now there appeared a nice phase "Velvet revolution". It
    tells us that problems can be solved peacefully.

    ak>> It could not happen in Ukraine with its ultra-nationalists.

    LL> What a laughable statement that would have been up to a few days
    LL> ago. Today, it is more of a somber reality. You see, some people in
    LL> the USA are insane. Today insane. Such as Ted Cruz. Hard to imagine
    LL> he is a US Senator. Nobody likes him. Even his own mother. Has a
    LL> beard so nobody has to look at his ugly face. Anyway, he is so
    LL> insane that he introduced legislation to put sanctions on Russia.
    LL> For no other reason than just to do it. It did not go anywhere, as
    LL> nobody in their right mind would even consider the measure. But we
    LL> are not talking about people who are sane.

    I can only say that the differences between the USSR and the USA were
    much bigger, but the USA sanctions of the USSR were much smaller. ;-)

    ak>> Now Russian people in Ukraine is a conquered nation.

    LL> I am not sure any people can be truly subjugated. A land may be
    LL> conquered, but winning the hearts and minds of a people is a
    LL> totally different story.

    The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian people
    living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves Ukrainians
    rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes it, because
    it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal,
    does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West ally.
    That is reality.

    LL> Poland and Hungary have turned hard right. As well as other
    LL> countries in central and eastern Europe. Are the people in those
    LL> countries prisoners in their own land? What can they do, or be
    LL> expected to do, to change the situation?

    It is another matter -- they don't divide themselves by nationalistic principles.

    LL> One solution is dissolution. Refuse to play by dissolving the
    LL> state. Each region would revert to being its own independent state.

    But suppose that a certain nation gets a swelled head in some country,
    and it decided that it has a right to rule the country only by itself.
    You will get an Ukrainian model.


    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Zhenja Kaliuta@2:4500/1.59 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 17, 2022 13:33:17
    Hi, alexander!

    On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:39:13 +0300 alexander koryagin writes:

    The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian people living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves Ukrainians rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes it, because it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal, does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West ally. That is reality.

    I know a bunch of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine, they do not have problems with Russian. No, they have no problems with Ukranian as well and they are not russian nationalists.

    --- Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux)
    * Origin: Somewhere in the North (2:4500/1.59)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 00:58:46
    Hello, Ghil!

    Monday January 17 2022 00:08, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control
    on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine
    to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade

    USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
    This situation suits them best.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Zhenja Kaliuta on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 09:08:40
    Hi, Zhenja Kaliuta!
    I read your message from 17.01.2022 14:33


    ak>> The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian
    people living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves
    Ukrainians rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using
    the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes
    it, because it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal, does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West
    ally. That is reality.

    ZK> I know a bunch of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine, they do not
    have problems with Russian. No, they have no problems with Ukranian as
    well and they are not russian nationalists.

    May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
    don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

    Bye, Zhenja!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:19:16
    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 09:08, you wrote to Zhenja Kaliuta:

    the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West

    I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian language at all. Even in bars :)

    In Russia you cannot use any other language except Russian to pass state exams (EGE).
    So people from Tatarstan will tell that Russia is also pushing down languages of ethnic minorities.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:59:47
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 18.01.2022 11:19

    ak>> the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
    ak>> the West
    DP> I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
    DP> language at all. Even in bars:)

    The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking Russian.
    It will be according the law.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 13:12:12
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 12:59, you wrote to me:

    the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
    the West
    I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
    language at all. Even in bars:)

    The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking Russian.

    No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian only.

    It will be according the law.

    No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer in Russian.
    It's absolutely the same in Russia. You can expect barman in Osetia to know Russian language. He cannot say to you that he don't speak Russian and force you to switch to Osetian.



    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 13:45:30
    May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
    don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

    You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

    This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 08:27:34
    Hello, Ward!

    May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine
    who don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be
    Ukrainians.

    You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in
    terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

    This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 16:40:40
    Hello, Ghil!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 08:27, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of

    NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by stopping the war.
    It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
    Who was going to stop those massacres instead of NATO? Santa Claus?
    Look at the Syria - civil war is still going on, millions of refugees abroad cannot return because they know that they will be prosecuted by Asad regime. And compare with Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Slovenia. No war, no fighting..

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 15:38:51
    Ghil,

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 15:42:58
    Dmitry,

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage still had not been repaired.

    The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

    And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody else, a thing often overlooked in the west.

    Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

    Correct ... today's generations are not to be blamed for the past.

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 17:52:08
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ward!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 15:42, you wrote to me:

    And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage still
    had not been repaired.

    The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

    And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody else,
    a thing often overlooked in the west.

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 16:04:17
    Dmitry,

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    We must stay away from nuclears.

    Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point of view.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:06:34
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ward!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 16:04, you wrote to me:

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
    be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    We must stay away from nuclears.

    WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

    Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point
    of view.

    No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

    Best regards,
    dp.
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 16:28:30
    Dmitry,

    WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

    We know who caused it, not your country and certainly not mine.

    Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military
    point of view.

    No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

    They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

    They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would expire.

    The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:36:04
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ward!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 16:28, you wrote to me:

    They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an
    active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force
    and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

    They had enough forces to kill million of american troops during months long battles.
    Just look at the Berlin were most powerfull army in the world lost 80 000 soldiers.
    Single city!

    They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would
    expire.

    It was impossible to block access to all Japan. It's really huge.

    The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the
    Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of
    ...

    Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:28:03
    Hello Dmitry,

    All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control
    on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine
    to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade

    USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
    This situation suits them best.

    With the alternative being a military coup d'etat it is no choice
    at all. Which is what will happen if Putin does not get what he wants.

    --Lee

    --
    Lock him up!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:28:09
    Hello Dmitry,

    the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
    the West
    I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
    language at all. Even in bars:)

    The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking
    Russian.

    No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian only.

    It will be according the law.

    No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak Ukranian. But if
    client will ask him in Russian - he can answer in Russian.
    It's absolutely the same in Russia. You can expect barman in Osetia to know
    Russian language. He cannot say to you that he don't speak Russian and force you to switch to Osetian.

    Everybody speaks English. So why speak any other language?
    The USA has no official language. Even though Benjamin Franklin
    thought it would be a great idea for everybody to speak German.

    In Louisiana, many people speak French as their native tongue.
    In the southwestern part of the USA, many people speak Spanish.
    The majority of people in New Mexico speak Spanish rather than
    English. And in Hawai'i the natives speak their own creation.

    --Lee

    --
    If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:28:15
    Hello Ward,

    May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
    don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

    You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

    This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

    Laos, Cuba, North Korea. The Big Three who rule the world.

    --Lee

    --
    As Good As It Looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:28:22
    Hello Ghil,

    May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine
    who don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be
    Ukrainians.

    You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in
    terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

    This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so
    I
    thought.

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    NATO did not bomb Yugoslavia, as that country had ceased to exist.
    But it did bomb Serbia. NATO also did not bomb Vietnam. But it did
    bomb Afghanistan. Even though it did stay out of Iraq. And NATO had
    not yet been created when two cities in Japan went radioactive.

    --Lee

    --
    As Good As It Looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:28:27
    Hello Dmitry,

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of

    NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by stopping the
    war.

    NATO was created to contain Germany. And yet NATO was involved
    in the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. With the blessing of
    Vladimir Putin. And what was the end result? The Taliban is still
    there, and rules Afghanistan as if NATO had never been there in
    the first place.

    It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
    Who was going to stop those massacres instead of NATO? Santa Claus?

    If you want peace, work for justice. At least two popes said that,
    but it is a phrase that is not limited to those who call themselves
    Christian. War is not the answer. And neither is any other form of
    destruction.

    Look at the Syria - civil war is still going on, millions of refugees abroad
    cannot return because they know that they will be prosecuted by Asad regime. And compare with Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Slovenia. No war, no fighting..

    The former Yugoslavia was at war with itself for quite some time.
    Until the various factions decided to get a divorce - from each other.
    Violence was not the answer then. And violence is not the answer now.
    In any place in the world.

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

    Dresdin. Kurt Vonnegut was there. Wrote about his experiences.
    Slaughterhouse Five. Billy Pilgrim, RIP.

    --Lee

    --
    No Trump! No KKK! No fascist USA!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:38:10
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Lee!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 18:28, you wrote to me:

    USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
    This situation suits them best.

    With the alternative being a military coup d'etat it is no choice

    Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible dream of all American presidents.

    at all. Which is what will happen if Putin does not get what he wants.

    Russian military is completely under control, Generals are corrupt and FSB (our Federal Security Service) got all required "Kompromat" to put anyone from the Army to jail.

    Just 2 days ago another General who was responsible for our radars tracking incoming missiles and planes was arrested and charged with corruption.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:59:26
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Lee!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 18:28, you wrote to me:

    Everybody speaks English. So why speak any other language?

    Everybody?! :) Probably everybody in Sweden.

    The USA has no official language. Even though Benjamin Franklin
    thought it would be a great idea for everybody to speak German.

    I don't want to speak German :)

    In Louisiana, many people speak French as their native tongue.
    In the southwestern part of the USA, many people speak Spanish.
    The majority of people in New Mexico speak Spanish rather than
    English. And in Hawai'i the natives speak their own creation.

    But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language of Ukraine. That's the problem.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:59:38
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Lee!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 18:28, you wrote to me:

    NATO was created to contain Germany. And yet NATO was involved

    NATO was created to fight with Soviet Union ;)

    in the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. With the blessing of
    Vladimir Putin. And what was the end result? The Taliban is still
    there, and rules Afghanistan as if NATO had never been there in
    the first place.

    You cannot destroy Taliban without invading Pakistan.. But it has nuclear bombs.

    If you want peace, work for justice. At least two popes said that,
    but it is a phrase that is not limited to those who call themselves Christian. War is not the answer. And neither is any other form of destruction.

    War is the answer, we are humans after all. It's just a bad answer.

    The former Yugoslavia was at war with itself for quite some time.
    Until the various factions decided to get a divorce - from each other. Violence was not the answer then. And violence is not the answer now.
    In any place in the world.

    Without NATO it was impossible to stop the war..



    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:41:56
    Hello Ward,

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

    Old enough to know better?

    OTOH, some people never grow up ...

    --Lee

    --
    Donald Trump! Go away! Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:42:02
    Hello Ward,

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much
    better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    We must stay away from nuclears.

    Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point of view.

    Stalin got the picture. Curtis LeMay wanted Truman to drop a whole
    bunch of them on cities in the USSR. Fortunately for us all, Truman
    had a somewhat saner mind than the general.

    --Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:42:08
    Hello Dmitry,

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
    be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    We must stay away from nuclears.

    WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

    "Politics is war by other means." ~Clausewitz

    What we had in WWII was a breakdown in diplomacy. A disaster
    in the making turned into a hard reality.

    Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point
    of view.

    No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

    Why did Japan surrender?

    The Japanese military had offered to surrender long before Hiroshima
    and Nagasaki were atomised. Truman rejected the offer, insisting on unconditional surrender. Of course, the Japanese military leadership
    would never go for that, as doing so would mean their own deaths.

    So Truman dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

    After a few days, when no word came from Japan, Truman chose to drop
    another atomic bomb. On Nagasaki.

    After a few days, Truman finally received word from Japan.

    The Emperor cried "Uncle!" and crowned Douglas MacArthur as god.

    This was all part of Truman's "unconditional surrender" terms.
    The Emperor himself had to bow, and relinquish his own claim as god.

    This was most insulting to the Emperor, and to all Japanese.

    To bow before gaijin ...

    --Lee

    --
    I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:42:14
    Hello Ward,

    WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

    We know who caused it, not your country and certainly not mine.

    Could it have been avoided? Some historians claim it was an
    extension of WWI. The sides of that conflict merely taking a
    break before continuing hostilities.

    Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military
    point of view.

    No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

    They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

    Then why did Truman drop two atomic bombs on Japanese cities?
    Japan was already a defeated entity. With no more military or
    military capability to speak of.

    They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would expire.

    Truman was aware of that. So was Stalin. Which begs the question -
    Why did Truman drop two atomic bombs on Japanese cities?

    The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of ...

    FDR, Stalin, and Churchill had several meetings. Each was aware
    of progress made towards development of atomic bombs. Not only in
    the USA, but also in Germany and Japan.

    FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin, but unexpectedly
    died of a stroke. Truman chose to keep the technology rather than
    share it with others. However, Truman was more than happy to give
    Stalin a demonstration as to what those bombs could do ...

    --Lee

    --
    When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 22:42:20
    Hello Dmitry,

    They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a
    blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural
    resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would
    expire.

    It was impossible to block access to all Japan. It's really huge.

    Japan was a defeated entity before two cities were atomized.

    The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the
    Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of
    ...

    The Atlantic theater was about defense. German and Italian POWs
    were treated well, and allowed privileges. The Pacific theater was
    far different, as it was about revenge, with what few Japanese POWs
    that had been taken treated very poorly.

    Would Truman had used atomic bombs on Germany or Italy? I doubt it.
    But using them on Japan was a no-brainer. Very popular decision when
    those two cities were vaporized.

    Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after the war. Only
    invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

    FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin. His unexpected
    death (of a stroke) prevented that from happening. And then Stalin
    had to deal with Truman.

    --Lee

    --
    Pork. The One You Love.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 02:09:38
    Hello, Lee!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 22:42, you wrote to me:

    What we had in WWII was a breakdown in diplomacy. A disaster
    in the making turned into a hard reality.

    I don't think that it was possible to spot WWII ny diplomacy..

    No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were
    shocked.

    Why did Japan surrender?

    Because they were shocked by US actions.

    The Japanese military had offered to surrender long before Hiroshima
    and Nagasaki were atomised. Truman rejected the offer, insisting on unconditional surrender. Of course, the Japanese military leadership
    would never go for that, as doing so would mean their own deaths.

    No, Jaoan was going to resist!

    The Emperor cried "Uncle!" and crowned Douglas MacArthur as god.

    God?! Are you ok?


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 02:11:48
    Hello, Lee!

    Tuesday January 18 2022 22:42, you wrote to me:

    Japan was a defeated entity before two cities were atomized.

    No, we had to fight Kwantung Army with a lot of ressitance.

    The Atlantic theater was about defense. German and Italian POWs
    were treated well, and allowed privileges. The Pacific theater was
    far different, as it was about revenge, with what few Japanese POWs
    that had been taken treated very poorly.

    We had tens of thousands of Japanese POWs working in Siberia in USSR, BTW.

    Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after
    the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

    FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin. His unexpected
    death (of a stroke) prevented that from happening. And then Stalin
    had to deal with Truman.

    I don't think that transfer of technology to USSR was an idea of any US president.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 01:28:46
    Hello Dmitry,

    USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
    This situation suits them best.

    With the alternative being a military coup d'etat it is no choice

    Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible dream of all American presidents.

    Weak Libya with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Qaddafi's worst
    nightmare. Until he ended his nuclear weapons program to make GWB
    happy.

    Weak Iraq with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Saddam Hussein's
    worst nightmare. Until he never could figure out how to make those
    things work, which made GWB very happy.

    at all. Which is what will happen if Putin does not get what he wants.

    Russian military is completely under control, Generals are corrupt and FSB (our Federal Security Service) got all required "Kompromat" to put anyone from the Army to jail.

    Countries in Central and South America go through periods of
    military dictatorships and democracies. Argentina has a very long
    history of this. As well as Chile, and other countries. Could the
    same happen in the USA? Or Canada? In Europe, or Australia? It
    can happen anywhere, given the right conditions.

    Just 2 days ago another General who was responsible for our radars tracking
    incoming missiles and planes was arrested and charged with corruption.

    The same happens in all dictatorships, whether military or civilian.
    Also happens in democratic countries. But nobody talks about that.

    --Lee

    --
    Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 01:28:52
    Hello Dmitry,

    Everybody speaks English. So why speak any other language?

    Everybody?! :) Probably everybody in Sweden.

    I'm not so sure there is a national language anywhere, or even
    if that is possible. The closest I can think of is American Sign
    Language (ASL) which is the same from coast to coast in the USA.
    But that was before I learned about BASL - Black American Sign
    Language. If you like rap music, try rapping with your hands.

    The USA has no official language. Even though Benjamin Franklin
    thought it would be a great idea for everybody to speak German.

    I don't want to speak German :)

    I speak Cajun French far better than German.

    In Louisiana, many people speak French as their native tongue.
    In the southwestern part of the USA, many people speak Spanish.
    The majority of people in New Mexico speak Spanish rather than
    English. And in Hawai'i the natives speak their own creation.

    But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language of Ukraine. That's the problem.

    The state of Louisiana has two official languages - French and
    English. The USA has no official language.

    There are some politicians in the USA who want to make English
    the one and only official language. This would be a nightmare for
    many, especially for those who speak no English at all.

    A country can have several official languages, or none at all.
    Either way is a protection. But to have only one official language
    is a very bad idea. We have experienced what happens when teachers
    try to impose their own "English only" rules on children ...

    --Lee

    --
    When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 01:28:58
    Hello Dmitry,

    NATO was created to contain Germany. And yet NATO was involved

    NATO was created to fight with Soviet Union ;)

    With NATO on one side and the Warsaw Pact on the other,
    Germany was all boxed in. Times have changed since then.

    in the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan. With the blessing of
    Vladimir Putin. And what was the end result? The Taliban is still
    there, and rules Afghanistan as if NATO had never been there in
    the first place.

    You cannot destroy Taliban without invading Pakistan.. But it has nuclear bombs.

    So does India. One side uses planes to drop the bombs.
    The other side uses missiles. But bombs from both sides
    have a very big boom.

    If you want peace, work for justice. At least two popes said that,
    but it is a phrase that is not limited to those who call themselves
    Christian. War is not the answer. And neither is any other form of
    destruction.

    War is the answer, we are humans after all. It's just a bad answer.

    The only winners in that game are ants and cockroaches.

    The former Yugoslavia was at war with itself for quite some time.
    Until the various factions decided to get a divorce - from each other.
    Violence was not the answer then. And violence is not the answer now.
    In any place in the world.

    Without NATO it was impossible to stop the war..

    Not even NATO could stop the Taliban, who never bothered with
    nukes or any other weapons of mass destruction.

    --Lee

    --
    If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:49:46

    A country can have several official languages, or none at all.
    Either way is a protection. But to have only one official language
    is a very bad idea. We have experienced what happens when teachers
    try to impose their own "English only" rules on children ...

    Did you know that Malaysia decided to make Bahasa (Malay) the offical language thinking it would empower the Malay population. If I remember rightly they had to invent or convert around 30,000 English words to Bahasa as they didn't
    exist especially in the legal and technical fields.

    Why did they do this, because around 40% of the population is not Malay but it didn't work out very well, in schools the Malays did very poorly because they spoke what was known as Kampong (Village) Malay and were confused while the
    non Malays learnt it easily and topped the classes and continued to do well.

    Long term it will probably work out ok but with a fair bit of the population not able to speak English which is really not good for their future.

    IMHO, computers made English the default language of the world.

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 09:15:07
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 18.01.2022 13:12

    ak>> The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught
    ak>> speaking Russian.
    DP> No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian
    DP> language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian
    DP> only.
    ak>> It will be according the law.
    DP> No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak
    DP> Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer
    DP> in Russian.

    This law is a humiliation of the Russian speaking people in the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. It is like some crazy politicians say that
    since tomorrow all the bars in Canadian Quebec should serve people in
    English. ;-)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43:17
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 18.01.2022 16:27

    ak>>> May be. But there are millions of other Russian people
    ak>>> in Ukraine who don't feel so comfortable when somebody
    ak>>> force them to be Ukrainians.
    WD>> You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still
    WD>> think in terms of military conquering and invading other
    WD>> countries .... This is the 21st century Nazism is gone,
    WD>> Communism is gone ... or so I thought.
    GZ> Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    GZ> 21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    GZ> 20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic
    GZ> bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking
    adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its ass. ;=)

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:44:41
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 18.01.2022 16:40

    GZ>> Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    GZ>> 21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    GZ>> 20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic
    GZ>> bombings of
    DP> NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by
    DP> stopping the war. It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you
    DP> know anything about Srebrenici?

    A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:52:23
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 18.01.2022 22:59

    DP> But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language
    DP> of Ukraine. That's the problem.

    A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
    in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds of
    years before.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:05:02
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 09:15, you wrote to me:

    No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak
    Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer
    in Russian.

    This law is a humiliation of the Russian speaking people in the
    Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. It is like some crazy politicians
    say that since tomorrow all the bars in Canadian Quebec should serve people in English. ;-)

    I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
    So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

    And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in Ukraine without using Ukrainan language.
    I did it myself.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:08:34
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

    NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by
    stopping the war. It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you
    know anything about Srebrenici?

    A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

    So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:09:06
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 10:52, you wrote to me:

    But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language
    of Ukraine. That's the problem.

    A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
    in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds
    of years before.

    "Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to invade our own neighbors.
    And I don't understand what do you mean by saying "live as Russian people".

    I have friends in USA who live there as Russian people. So problem so far.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:29:08
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Lee!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 01:28, you wrote to me:

    Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible
    dream of all American presidents.

    Weak Libya with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Qaddafi's worst
    nightmare. Until he ended his nuclear weapons program to make GWB
    happy.

    Qaddafy spent millions of dollars to pay for killing christians in Middle East. He was a terrible guy.

    Weak Iraq with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Saddam Hussein's
    worst nightmare. Until he never could figure out how to make those
    things work, which made GWB very happy.

    He also killed tens of thousands shia and kurds in process.

    Countries in Central and South America go through periods of
    military dictatorships and democracies. Argentina has a very long
    history of this. As well as Chile, and other countries. Could the
    same happen in the USA? Or Canada? In Europe, or Australia? It
    can happen anywhere, given the right conditions.

    We have "secret service" dictatorship here. Not like in South America.
    Military has almost no political power.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:43:04
    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 10:43, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

    You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its
    ass. ;=)

    I personally know people who's relatives where killed in Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian terrorist for each killed christian.
    And they are very happy that he got what he deserves.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Terry Roati on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 13:10:36
    Hello, Terry!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 10:49, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    IMHO, computers made English the default language of the world.

    Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 20:21:54
    Hi Dmitry,

    Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

    Might help explain why 95% are not doing so well :)

    Years ago there was a dream for a universal language but when PC's came it seemed to die a death. Maybe I am wrong but I would say English is the most common language used for business after working in many countries in the past.

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 05:31:10
    Hello, Dmitry!

    And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage
    still had not been repaired.

    The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki
    and Hiroshima.

    And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody
    else, a thing often overlooked in the west.

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be
    much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine , Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide? Whom do we entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 05:38:10
    Hello, Ward!

    Ghil,

    Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
    21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
    20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings
    of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

    If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

    My point is: even in the 19th century people in the Western World though they were civilized and still we had slavery, colonialism, murder and enslavement of the local inhabitants, conquering wars etc.
    This will never end.

    BTW: I'm 40. Why is this important?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:02:00
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ghil!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 05:31, you wrote to me:

    We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
    be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

    It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine ,
    Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point
    of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide? Whom do we

    I don't see how situation in Ukraine could be compared with Battle for Berlin. Russian just should stop invading neighboring countries and care more about it's own citizens.

    entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

    Do you remember our politicians who publicly announced ideas to nuke Turkey and USA?
    It's became a new normality in Russia to say such thing.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 13:48:14
    Ghil,

    BTW: I'm 40. Why is this important?

    Just curious in the renewal of ideas ... I figured you were one of the younger ones. You made some interesting points ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:33:05
    Hello Dmitry,

    What we had in WWII was a breakdown in diplomacy. A disaster
    in the making turned into a hard reality.

    I don't think that it was possible to spot WWII ny diplomacy..

    There was WWI. When all the sides ran out of young people
    (due to the Spanish Flu), all who were left was a bunch of
    old men. And a few broken-hearted ladies who had lost their
    sons. So they all had to wait twenty years when a new crop
    of young people became available.

    No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were
    shocked.

    Why did Japan surrender?

    Because they were shocked by US actions.

    You are talking about a country that had given up guns.
    Then was invaded. Then having to take up guns again.
    So nothing could shock them by US actions, or actions
    by any other country.

    The Japanese military had offered to surrender long before Hiroshima
    and Nagasaki were atomised. Truman rejected the offer, insisting on
    unconditional surrender. Of course, the Japanese military leadership
    would never go for that, as doing so would mean their own deaths.

    No, Jaoan was going to resist!

    The Japanese military had offered to surrender. That means no
    resistance. So why did US President Truman reject the Japanese
    offer to surrender?

    The Emperor cried "Uncle!" and crowned Douglas MacArthur as god.

    God?! Are you ok?

    Little "g", not big "G".

    US President Truman insisted on "unconditional surrender". What he
    meant by that was Emperor Hirohito had to renounce his claim as a
    living god. It took two atomic bombs, and a few days more, to convince
    the Emperor to give in to Truman's demand.

    That is why the Japanese people revered General Douglas MacArthur
    as a living god, as he had the blessing of the Emperor.

    Did he make the right decision? For the rest of his life, Emperor
    Hirohito wondered. And never found the answer he was seeking.

    His grandson is now Emperor. To date, he has never renounced his
    own claim as a living god. And why should he? He is an advocate for
    peace.

    --Lee

    --
    Travel should take you places

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:33:12
    Hello Dmitry,

    Japan was a defeated entity before two cities were atomized.

    No, we had to fight Kwantung Army with a lot of ressitance.

    FDR, Churchill, and Stalin had worked out a plan on how to
    conduct the war. However, FDR died unexpectedly in April 1945,
    and the war was still raging in the Far East. The plan called
    for Stalin to wait until April to begin activities in that
    area.

    Truman wanted to go in a different direction. But Stalin chose
    to stay the course, and stuck with the plan devised.

    The activities in the Far East are only given scant attention
    by historians. Almost as if such events never happened. One can
    only imagine how much longer the war in the Pacific would have
    continued had no action been taken.

    The Atlantic theater was about defense. German and Italian POWs
    were treated well, and allowed privileges. The Pacific theater was
    far different, as it was about revenge, with what few Japanese POWs
    that had been taken treated very poorly.

    We had tens of thousands of Japanese POWs working in Siberia in USSR, BTW.

    The USA put its own citizens in such detention camps. Anybody who
    even looked Japanese qualified. Except in Hawai'i.

    Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after
    the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

    FDR wanted to share the technology with Stalin. His unexpected
    death (of a stroke) prevented that from happening. And then Stalin
    had to deal with Truman.

    I don't think that transfer of technology to USSR was an idea of any US president.

    We will never know what FDR would have done had he not died
    in office before the end of the war. FDR and Stalin regarded
    each other as friends, and historians have noted how well
    the two of them got along. Churchill was a different story,
    as nobody really got along with him.

    --Lee

    --
    In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:33:20
    Hello Dmitry,

    Weak Russia with anarchy and nuclear weapons is the most terrible
    dream of all American presidents.

    Weak Libya with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Qaddafi's worst
    nightmare. Until he ended his nuclear weapons program to make GWB
    happy.

    Qaddafy spent millions of dollars to pay for killing christians in Middle East.
    He was a terrible guy.

    Yes, he was a terrible guy. But he had oil. Lots of oil. And with
    all that oil in his pocket, he could make many friends. Of his own
    choosing.

    Weak Iraq with anarchy and nuclear weapons was Saddam Hussein's
    worst nightmare. Until he never could figure out how to make those
    things work, which made GWB very happy.

    He also killed tens of thousands shia and kurds in process.

    Not to worry. GWB turned him over to a Shia hit squad. They
    knew what to do with him.

    Countries in Central and South America go through periods of
    military dictatorships and democracies. Argentina has a very long
    history of this. As well as Chile, and other countries. Could the
    same happen in the USA? Or Canada? In Europe, or Australia? It
    can happen anywhere, given the right conditions.

    We have "secret service" dictatorship here. Not like in South America. Military has almost no political power.

    Lemme see if I got this right. The USA has 500,000 personnel
    in over 800 foreign bases surrounding both China and Russia.
    Russia has 14 foreign bases surrounding no one.

    But Russia is the aggressor, and wants to invade Ukraine.

    Please tell me that makes sense.

    --Lee

    --
    The people! Unite! Will never be defeated!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:33:26
    Hello Dmitry,

    You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking
    adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its
    ass. ;=)

    I personally know people who's relatives where killed in Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian terrorist for each killed christian.
    And they are very happy that he got what he deserves.

    "We came, we saw, he died."
    ~ Hillary Clinton, in regards to Gaddafi, 20 October 2011

    --Lee

    --
    Food for the Fun of It

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 16:43:20
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Lee!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 14:33, you wrote to me:

    "We came, we saw, he died."
    ~ Hillary Clinton, in regards to Gaddafi, 20 October 2011

    Let him rot in hell!

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 16:37:08
    Hello, Lee!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 14:33, you wrote to me:

    Qaddafy spent millions of dollars to pay for killing christians
    in Middle East. He was a terrible guy.

    Yes, he was a terrible guy. But he had oil. Lots of oil. And with
    all that oil in his pocket, he could make many friends. Of his own choosing.

    His "friends" betrayed him, you cannot buy real friendship with money.

    He also killed tens of thousands shia and kurds in process.

    Not to worry. GWB turned him over to a Shia hit squad. They
    knew what to do with him.

    Sure, his execution was a consequence of his actions.

    We have "secret service" dictatorship here. Not like in South
    America. Military has almost no political power.

    Lemme see if I got this right. The USA has 500,000 personnel
    in over 800 foreign bases surrounding both China and Russia.
    Russia has 14 foreign bases surrounding no one.

    But Russia is the aggressor, and wants to invade Ukraine.

    We've already invaded Ukraine and cut part of it's territory. Now comes act #2.

    Please tell me that makes sense.

    I don't see any intention from USA to start any war with us. Not now, not in nearest future.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 16:43:36
    Hello, Lee!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 14:33, you wrote to me:

    There was WWI. When all the sides ran out of young people
    (due to the Spanish Flu), all who were left was a bunch of
    old men. And a few broken-hearted ladies who had lost their
    sons. So they all had to wait twenty years when a new crop
    of young people became available.

    We've actually lost WWI and Germany got big part of our country. We were lucky that Entente won.

    Because they were shocked by US actions.

    You are talking about a country that had given up guns.
    Then was invaded. Then having to take up guns again.
    So nothing could shock them by US actions, or actions
    by any other country.

    Destruction of the whole city with just 1 bomb wasn't something seen before.

    The Japanese military had offered to surrender. That means no
    resistance. So why did US President Truman reject the Japanese
    offer to surrender?

    The same reason why contacts from German army with Allies were unsuccessful.

    That is why the Japanese people revered General Douglas MacArthur
    as a living god, as he had the blessing of the Emperor.

    I've talked to many Japanese in my life and no one was reffering to any american as "god" ;)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 09:24:36
    Hello, Dmitry!

    I don't see any intention from USA to start any war with us. Not now,
    not in nearest future.

    But US could use Ukraine as its "ally" to establish NATO bases. And, with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones that would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities. Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 17:40:14
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ghil!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 09:24, you wrote to me:

    But US could use Ukraine as its "ally" to establish NATO bases. And,

    Ukraine had Russian base in Crimea which was used for invasion back in 2014. Sounds like Ukraine is a bit scared about Russia :)

    with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones that
    would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities. Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

    Distance from Moscow to Latvian border is almost the same as distance to Ukrainan border. And actually no one was really worried about that for many years (Latvia joined NATO in 2003).


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Terry Roati on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 16:06:18
    Hello Terry,

    Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

    Might help explain why 95% are not doing so well :)

    Years ago there was a dream for a universal language but when PC's came it seemed to die a death. Maybe I am wrong but I would say English is the most
    common language used for business after working in many countries in the past.

    And commercial airplane pilots.

    Today, computers can talk with other computers. In so doing,
    computers are inventing their own language. Which over time, none
    of us will be able to understand. What happens then?

    Their language will be a universal language. But only among
    computers. Granted, this universal language can also be used
    by robots. After all, it is artificial intelligence.

    Meanwhile, the less sentient will have to do with their own
    very limited language capabilities ...

    --Lee

    --
    Love trumps hate!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 16:06:24
    Hello Ghil,

    It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine , Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide?

    GWB summed it all up in three simple words - "I'm the decider."

    Whom do we entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

    The US President has all the power in the world to do whatever
    he wants to drop nuclear bombs. All he has to do is push the button.
    The big red one, that not even he can miss.

    The US President has sole discretion to do so. I know of no other
    leader in the world who has such authority. Not even Vladimir Putin
    has the right to do so.

    That makes the US President the most powerful person in the world.
    Nobody can tell him what to do. Or not to do. He can do whatever he
    wants, whenever he wants. And nobody can stop him.

    All it takes is one finger. Pressing the right button.

    --Lee

    --
    Pussy grabs back!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:45:50
    Hello, Dmitry!

    with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones
    that would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities.
    Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

    Distance from Moscow to Latvian border is almost the same as distance
    to Ukrainan border. And actually no one was really worried about that
    for many years (Latvia joined NATO in 2003).

    Latvia is a lost cause from russian point of view, but they didn't give up on Ukraine. The pro-russian electorate in Eastern and Southern Ukraine could be decisive in the future.
    https://tinyurl.com/28vb6yp3
    And I think Putin can't deal with the fact that Ukraine is going to join NATO. Ukraine being what it is (east slavic, common roots) for Putin it's like a betrayal. Odessa being founded by Russian empress Catherine the Great. Still, too many resentments. And it's more like a matter of russian national pride "not to lose Ukraine". Putin doesn't have a vassal in Ukraine like he has in Belarus in the person of Lukashenko. And the mere fact that Ukraine choose americans and NATO instead of russians makes this "betrayal" more bitter.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 19:33:54
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ghil!

    Wednesday January 19 2022 10:45, you wrote to me:

    Latvia is a lost cause from russian point of view, but they didn't
    give up on Ukraine. The pro-russian electorate in Eastern and Southern Ukraine could be decisive in the future.
    https://tinyurl.com/28vb6yp3

    Eastern Ukraine de-facto is not Ukranian territory anymore.
    It's on Russia's payroll and will be our problem for many years to come.

    And I think Putin can't deal with the fact that Ukraine is going to
    join NATO. Ukraine being what it is (east slavic, common roots) for
    Putin it's like a betrayal. Odessa being founded by Russian empress

    Poland is also east slavic.

    Catherine the Great. Still, too many resentments. And it's more like a

    Catherine was not even Russian ;)

    matter of russian national pride "not to lose Ukraine". Putin doesn't

    So "our pride" is to invade our neighbor and to kill it's soldiers?!

    have a vassal in Ukraine like he has in Belarus in the person of Lukashenko. And the mere fact that Ukraine choose americans and NATO instead of russians makes this "betrayal" more bitter.

    They've lost Crimea and Donbass, it's like they are going to trust Putin anymore.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Lee Lofaso on Thursday, January 20, 2022 08:21:14
    Hi Lee,

    On Jan 19, 2022 04:05pm, Lee Lofaso wrote to Terry Roati:

    And commercial airplane pilots.

    Bingo.

    Today, computers can talk with other computers. In so doing,
    computers are inventing their own language. Which over time, none
    of us will be able to understand. What happens then?

    Pull the power plug?

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:46:16
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:05

    DP> I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
    DP> So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

    They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
    voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also
    violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the
    situation in Ukraine.

    DP> And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
    DP> Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

    I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in
    Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian
    nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live
    peacefully together.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:50:37
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:08

    DP>>> NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in
    DP>>> Yugoslavia by stopping the war. It was a terrible place
    DP>>> in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
    ak>> A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
    DP> So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

    So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine Russian
    speaking areas? ;-)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:54:51
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:09

    ak>> A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the
    ak>> Russian people in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people,
    ak>> as they did for hundreds of years before.
    DP> "Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
    DP> invade our own neighbors.

    You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its
    territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust. So
    millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour countries
    should be heard.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:50:32
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Thursday January 20 2022 16:46, you wrote to me:

    I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
    So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

    They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the situation in Ukraine.

    So they have to speak Russian, right? And why do think that Russians in Ukraine can't learn Ukranian?

    And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
    Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

    I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in
    Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian

    Osetia is also land of local people. But they have to speak Russian. And people in all regions of Russia have to use Russian as main language.
    You can't even have exams in school in any other language.

    nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live
    peacefully together.

    I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until Crimea annexation.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:59:10
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:43

    ak>> You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that
    ak>> fucking adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and
    ak>> eternal pain in its ass. ;=)
    DP> I personally know people who's relatives where killed in
    DP> Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian
    DP> terrorist for each killed christian. And they are very happy
    DP> that he got what he deserves.

    Just read about the Sabra and Shatila massacre to learn more about
    cristians in Lebanon.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:58:18
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Thursday January 20 2022 16:50, you wrote to me:

    A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
    So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

    So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine Russian
    speaking areas? ;-)

    How it stopped fighting, hm?

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 20, 2022 16:59:26
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Thursday January 20 2022 16:54, you wrote to me:

    "Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
    invade our own neighbors.

    You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its

    USSR was a pretty nasty place, I am very happy that it doesn't exists anymore. It was bad everyone.

    territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust. So

    Even the creation on USSR was bloody, unlawful and unjust.

    millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour
    countries should be heard.

    Yeah, like french people in Algeria? :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Terry Roati on Thursday, January 20, 2022 15:04:04
    Hello Terry,

    And commercial airplane pilots.

    Bingo.

    I wonder if that British-Belgian gal who flew solo around the world
    spoke in English or in Belgian during her flight. Youngest gal to do
    it. Took her 150 days, but still one heck of an accomplishment.

    Today, computers can talk with other computers. In so doing,
    computers are inventing their own language. Which over time, none
    of us will be able to understand. What happens then?

    Pull the power plug?

    Facebook did, after two of its bots went berserk. You can do the same,
    as the code is freely available for download. Kind of fun. As long as
    you do not let the bots play too long.

    https://towardsdatascience.com/the-truth-behind-facebook-ai -inventing-a-new-language-37c5d680e5a7


    --Lee

    --
    I think they bought a Jeep

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 20, 2022 17:02:12
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Thursday January 20 2022 16:59, you wrote to me:

    I personally know people who's relatives where killed in
    Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian
    terrorist for each killed christian. And they are very happy
    that he got what he deserves.

    Just read about the Sabra and Shatila massacre to learn more about cristians in Lebanon.

    That happened after 7 years of war against Palestinian Liberation Organization, armed by Soviet Union and trained at Perevalnoe Training Center-165 in Crimea.
    They actually took Lebanon as a hostage in their war against the Israel.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 20, 2022 19:12:21
    Hello Alexander,

    I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
    So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

    They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the situation in Ukraine.

    The origins of Russia began in Ukraine. This was before there
    ever was a Ukraine. History is never one event, or place. If one
    does not understand the past, it would be impossible to know the
    present, and the future would be nothing more than just a blur.

    And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
    Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

    I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live peacefully together.

    Here in Louisiana many people speak both English and Cajun French.
    Some speak only Cajun French, not wishing to learn English at all.

    It used to be a majority of people in south Louisiana who could
    speak Cajun French, but today it is a small minority. But the
    numbers are growing again in some areas. Organizations such
    as Sur la Table were formed so people could get together and
    speak only Cajun French at social events, or dining. No English
    allowed to be spoken by anyone. Including the waiter/waitress.

    How did an area that the majority of the population that spoke
    Cajun French become a minority? Americanization. Over a long period
    of time, the use of English became the dominant language, as most
    of the USA (almost all) spoke English rather than French.

    In Ukraine, a large number of people speak Russian. But they
    are discouraged from speaking Russian, and over a long period
    of time would wind up in the same situation as Cajuns.

    Cajuns refer to themselves as Cajuns, and are proud of their
    French heritage, as well as their own language.

    Why would those who speak Russian not be proud of their own
    heritage, and language?

    There are people of many languages in every country in the world.
    But patriotism is not defined by language alone. Far from it.

    Europe is odd in the sense that geographical boundaries and
    language seem to be same. Those who speak French live in France.
    Those who speak German live in Germany. Those who speak Italian
    live in Italy. But how does anybody define Switzerland? The best
    I can figure is the Swiss are more like Swiss cheese.

    --Lee

    --
    Black lives matter!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 20, 2022 19:12:27
    Hello Alexander,

    A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the
    Russian people in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people,
    as they did for hundreds of years before.
    "Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
    invade our own neighbors.

    You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust.

    What was Gorbachev to do? Three republics split from the USSR,
    with the rest ready to follow suit, is not exactly what one would
    call an endorsement. And what about all those nukes no longer in
    control by one central power? I wonder what would have happened
    had Ukraine held on to its share ...

    So millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour countries should be heard.

    I heard tourism is up in Belarus. Syrians, perhaps?

    --Lee

    --
    Pay your taxes!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Thursday, January 20, 2022 23:59:00
    I wonder if that British-Belgian gal who flew solo around the world
    spoke in English or in Belgian during her flight. Youngest gal to do
    it. Took her 150 days, but still one heck of an accomplishment.

    1/ English. What else?

    2/ There is no language called "Belgian"

    3/ Way more than half of that time she was stuck in Alaska and Siberia due to weather. She flew an ultra-light with extra fueltanks, no pressuriwation.

    4/ Rich parents allow you to do such things, or circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 21, 2022 09:08:22
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:50

    ak>> nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
    ak>> able live peacefully together.
    DP> I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
    DP> Crimea annexation.

    No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev. Until
    then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 21, 2022 09:18:17
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:58

    ak>>>> A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
    DP>>> So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.
    ak>> So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine
    ak>> Russian speaking areas?;-)
    DP> How it stopped fighting, hm?

    It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no
    Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
    without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our volunteers
    also participated.

    It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the
    Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
    we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the territories
    back.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, January 21, 2022 09:41:05
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 20.01.2022 21:12

    DP>>> I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
    DP>>> So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

    ak>> They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
    ak>> voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia
    ak>> also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale
    ak>> with the situation in Ukraine.

    IG> The origins of Russia began in Ukraine. This was before there ever
    IG> was a Ukraine. History is never one event, or place. If one does
    IG> not understand the past, it would be impossible to know the
    IG> present, and the future would be nothing more than just a blur.

    Old history is useless. For instance, Ukraine was a part of Poland. So what?

    DP>>> And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
    DP>>> Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

    ak>> I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people
    ak>> workers in Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier
    ak>> Ukrainian nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will
    ak>> be able live peacefully together.

    IG> Here in Louisiana many people speak both English and Cajun French.
    IG> Some speak only Cajun French, not wishing to learn English at all.

    They are not dull-witted nationalists.

    IG> It used to be a majority of people in south Louisiana who could
    IG> speak Cajun French, but today it is a small minority. But the
    IG> numbers are growing again in some areas. Organizations such as Sur
    IG> la Table were formed so people could get together and speak only
    IG> Cajun French at social events, or dining. No English allowed to be
    IG> spoken by anyone. Including the waiter/waitress.

    IG> How did an area that the majority of the population that spoke
    IG> Cajun French become a minority? Americanization. Over a long period
    IG> of time, the use of English became the dominant language, as most
    IG> of the USA (almost all) spoke English rather than French.

    This process was also in Ukraine (in the USSR) -- most people started
    prefer to speak Russian. But it was their personal free choice because
    they could speak Ukrainian, they learned it at local schools.
    Another matter that eastern and south parts of Ukraine was always
    populated by Russian people.

    IG> In Ukraine, a large number of people speak Russian. But they are
    IG> discouraged from speaking Russian, and over a long period of time
    IG> would wind up in the same situation as Cajuns.

    In any case the process of language defence should not be a violence
    over the people who spoke their different language for centuries. The
    Ukraine was divided roughly speaking by half. Those who want to develop
    the Ukrainian language can do it in the Ukrainian speaking areas.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 21, 2022 10:07:18
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Friday January 21 2022 09:08, you wrote to me:

    nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
    able live peacefully together.
    I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
    Crimea annexation.

    No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev.

    As I already told you - I had no problems in Kiev with my Russian language. So I don't see why ultra-nationalists in fact did nothing to prevent me and other people speak most of the time :)
    Have you been to Ukraine youself in recent year?

    Until then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living
    in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

    Nationalism is a just a normal policy for multiple conutries.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 21, 2022 10:08:56
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Friday January 21 2022 09:18, you wrote to me:

    How it stopped fighting, hm?

    It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple --

    Russian invaded Crimea officially! Using it's base as a tool.

    Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
    without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our
    volunteers also participated.

    Now they are getting quite modern weapons from the US and UK. Situation changed.
    Do you remember that partisans in Ukraine stopped fighting only in 1957?

    It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
    we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
    territories back.

    We are sending people and military equipment to Donbass.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 21, 2022 10:54:36
    It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
    without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our volunteers also participated.

    As with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines MH17 ... July 17 2014 ... neither had surface-to-air missiles and NATO did "not" provide them.

    I'm amazed that Russia keeps denying its involvement. It places itself among other rogue nations such as USA, China, Turkey, Myanmar, 80% of Africa, Saudi-Arabia, etc ... that do as they please under the guise of national interest.

    It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
    we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the territories back.

    I find it strange that an autonomous country, which Ukraine is, even has to "capture" its own territory.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Saturday, January 22, 2022 08:23:18
    Hello, alexander!

    Пятница 21 Января 2022 09:18, ты писал(а) Dmitry Protasoff, в сообщении по ссылке area://fidonews?msgid=2:5075/128.130+860951ad:

    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:58

    A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
    So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.
    So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine
    Russian speaking areas?;-)
    How it stopped fighting, hm?

    we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
    territories back.

    Ukraine holds sovereignty over all the territory of Ukraine. According to international law Ukraine has all the rights to "recapture" the territories back.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sunday, January 23, 2022 00:11:02
    Hello Alexander,

    nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
    able live peacefully together.

    I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
    Crimea annexation.

    No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev. Until then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

    Two different things - society and culture.

    A people define themselves by language. Not by geographical boundaries,
    which are nothing but abstract lines. Hispanics speak Spanish, and do
    not define themselves by where they live, or by race, or any other
    criteria but the language they have in common (Spanish). Cajuns are
    the same, but it is French rather than Spanish.

    The question is, is society part of a culture, or is culture a part
    of society? I think the answer to that question can easily be shown.

    The Cajun people were here before there ever was a USA. And yet the
    USA wants to regard Cajuns as being a part of society rather than the
    other way around.

    The problem with that view is that Cajun culture will continue
    long after the society of the USA (or the country) ceases to exist.

    The same traditions that Cajuns had before there ever was a USA,
    during its existence, and after its demise, will continue.

    The same can be said of the people residing in Ukraine, regardless
    of language spoken.

    Do you think the people of Crimea are any different today than
    they were a few years ago? They are exactly the same people, and
    continue in their own ways.

    Mardi Gras is upon us here in Louisiana. And Jazz Fest is near.
    This is a time when Cajuns like to party, and celebrate all there
    is and can be.

    Now if only the New Orleans Saints football team can find a way
    to start winning games again ...

    --Lee

    --
    Impossible is nothing

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sunday, January 23, 2022 00:11:07
    Hello Alexander,

    I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
    So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

    They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
    voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia
    also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale
    with the situation in Ukraine.

    The origins of Russia began in Ukraine. This was before there ever
    was a Ukraine. History is never one event, or place. If one does
    not understand the past, it would be impossible to know the
    present, and the future would be nothing more than just a blur.

    Old history is useless. For instance, Ukraine was a part of Poland. So what?

    Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

    And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
    Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

    I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people
    workers in Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier
    Ukrainian nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will
    be able live peacefully together.

    Here in Louisiana many people speak both English and Cajun French.
    Some speak only Cajun French, not wishing to learn English at all.

    They are not dull-witted nationalists.

    Brilliant people, whether they speak English, Cajun, or both.
    When a people are seen or treated as second-rate citizens, it is
    a loss for an entire country.

    It used to be a majority of people in south Louisiana who could
    speak Cajun French, but today it is a small minority. But the
    numbers are growing again in some areas. Organizations such as Sur
    la Table were formed so people could get together and speak only
    Cajun French at social events, or dining. No English allowed to be
    spoken by anyone. Including the waiter/waitress.

    How did an area that the majority of the population that spoke
    Cajun French become a minority? Americanization. Over a long period
    of time, the use of English became the dominant language, as most
    of the USA (almost all) spoke English rather than French.

    This process was also in Ukraine (in the USSR) -- most people started prefer to speak Russian. But it was their personal free choice because they could speak Ukrainian, they learned it at local schools.
    Another matter that eastern and south parts of Ukraine was always populated by Russian people.

    The previous administration in Ukraine treated all people equally,
    regardless of region or language spoken. I should say all previous administrations.

    That probably explains why the current president has lost his
    majority, and may be on his way out later this year to whoever
    runs against him.

    In Ukraine, a large number of people speak Russian. But they are
    discouraged from speaking Russian, and over a long period of time
    would wind up in the same situation as Cajuns.

    In any case the process of language defence should not be a violence
    over the people who spoke their different language for centuries. The Ukraine was divided roughly speaking by half. Those who want to develop the Ukrainian language can do it in the Ukrainian speaking areas.

    Why should Ukrainians limit themselves to where they can speak
    their own language inside their own country? Cajuns do not limit
    themselves to speaking Cajun French anywhere in Louisiana, or in
    the USA, or in any other place in the world.

    But try to order mashed potatoes in Cajun French in Montreal.
    I love the food, as it is really good. But Cajuns have no word
    for "mashed". Had to use hand gestures, which the QuebeЗois
    found very amusing.

    --Lee

    --
    There's no split in Cremo.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, January 23, 2022 00:11:12
    Hello Ward,

    I wonder if that British-Belgian gal who flew solo around the world
    spoke in English or in Belgian during her flight. Youngest gal to do
    it. Took her 150 days, but still one heck of an accomplishment.

    1/ English. What else?

    Hispanics speak Spanglish. Does that qualify?

    2/ There is no language called "Belgian"

    Grecians speak Greek.
    But what kind of language do Americans speak?

    3/ Way more than half of that time she was stuck in Alaska and Siberia due to weather. She flew an ultra-light with extra fueltanks, no pressuriwation.

    She says the most dangerous time during her journey was when she
    was over Russia, with nothing but ice below her, with no trees around.
    Had she had any problem with her plane, she would have been stranded
    with no possibility of being rescued before becoming a popsicle.

    4/ Rich parents allow you to do such things, or circumnavigate the globe in
    a sailboat

    You do have to give her credit for being a better navigator than
    her hero, Amelia Earhardt.

    --Lee

    --
    Melts in your mouth, not in your hands

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, January 23, 2022 01:11:56
    You do have to give her credit for being a better navigator than
    her hero, Amelia Earhardt.

    Fred Noonan was Earhardt's navigator. Amelia handled the plane. Noonan was a known alcoholic and Earhardt just a mediocre pilot.

    The Belgian/British girl had a plane with GPS, ADS-B, computerized flight plans at the click of a button, SAR-services, satellite trackers, accurate weather information ...

    It's a different world ... I once handled the controls of a Cirrus-22. Fully computerized glass cockpit. My friend Fred who was a 747-captain at the time said that small plane had better instrumentation than the 747.

    My other friend who flew the Cirrus, in Montana, said "Let's plot a route to London Heathrow" ... He entered the ICAO code in the computer and within seconds we had a flight plan with landing stops, refueling options, alternate airports, oceanic clearance, etc... He said "If I press this button the flightplan is automatically filed and we're on our way to London England".

    It's a different world than flying in a pre-WW2 Lockheed Vega. The flight required a mix of dead-reckoning and celestial navigation with a sextant and they failed to show-up at Howland. They were at the correct longitude but either too far north or too far south and when Amelia decided to fly along the longitude-line of Howland she probably turned into the wrong direction. Poor preparation, amateurism, inexperience, ...

    Today Zara Rutherford would've entered some coordinates in her flight computer and switched on the autopilot, then continued checking Facebook by satellite internet.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Monday, January 24, 2022 09:27:02
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 21.01.2022 10:07

    ak>> Until then there was a sober policy which respected all
    ak>> nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest
    ak>> thing possible.
    DP> Nationalism is a just a normal policy for multiple conutries.

    Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
    When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above others.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Monday, January 24, 2022 09:30:21
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 21.01.2022 10:08

    ak>> Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with
    ak>> people without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and
    ak>> some our volunteers also participated.
    DP> Now they are getting quite modern weapons from the US and UK.
    DP> Situation changed. Do you remember that partisans in Ukraine
    DP> stopped fighting only in 1957?

    Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans. ;-)

    ak>> It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan
    ak>> border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now
    ak>> occuping Dombass region, and we are the only force that
    ak>> prevents Kiev from capturing the territories back.
    DP> We are sending people and military equipment to Donbass.



    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 24, 2022 09:51:27
    Hi, Ward Dossche!
    I read your message from 21.01.2022 12:54

    ak>> It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and
    ak>> no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is
    ak>> simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only
    ak>> with people without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and
    ak>> some our volunteers also participated.

    WD> As with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines MH17... July 17 2014...
    WD> neither had surface-to-air missiles and NATO did "not" provide
    WD> them.

    Bad accidents often happen during wars. For instance, you can read about multiple cases of friendly fire. War is a crime by itself.
    Especially such accidents are probable when people for a long time have
    no a real war practice. Your probably read how Ukraine shot down a
    Russian passenger plain in 2001. BTW it refused from the responsibility, although evidences were 100 times more obvious then in the MH17 case.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

    WD> I'm amazed that Russia keeps denying its involvement. It places
    WD> itself among other rogue nations such as USA, China, Turkey,
    WD> Myanmar, 80% of Africa, Saudi-Arabia, etc... that do as they please
    WD> under the guise of national interest.

    ak>> It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at
    ak>> the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass
    ak>> region, and we are the only force that prevents Kiev from
    ak>> capturing the territories back.

    WD> I find it strange that an autonomous country, which Ukraine is,
    WD> even has to "capture" its own territory.

    Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to dominate and
    assimilate another. Another nation will never allow it. Well, Russia
    helps Russian people in Dombass, but Russian troops -- that's correct --
    still are on the Russian side of the border.

    Bye, Ward!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 24, 2022 07:58:29
    Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
    When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
    others.

    One day we need to share a beer ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:04:52
    Hello, alexander!

    Monday January 24 2022 09:27, you wrote to me:

    Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.

    Agressive "anything" is the core reason of all troubles.

    When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
    others.

    That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for school exams? :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:05:58
    Hello, alexander!

    Monday January 24 2022 09:30, you wrote to me:

    Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans. ;-)

    As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment - just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some geopolitican reasons :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:11:31
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 22.01.2022 16:23

    ak>>>> So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in
    ak>>>> Ukraine Russian speaking areas?;-)
    DP>>> How it stopped fighting, hm?
    ak>> we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
    ak>> territories back.
    GZ> Ukraine holds sovereignty over all the territory of Ukraine.
    GZ> According to international law Ukraine has all the rights to
    GZ> "recapture" the territories back.

    The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they bombed
    Yugoslavia, although, according your logic, Yugoslavia also had the
    right to return its lost territories back.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:14:10
    Hello, alexander!

    Monday January 24 2022 10:11, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

    The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic, Yugoslavia also had the

    But who was going to stop civil war?

    right to return its lost territories back.

    "Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

    Best regards,
    dp.
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:18:27
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 23.01.2022 02:11

    LL> The previous administration in Ukraine treated all people
    LL> equally, regardless of region or language spoken. I should say
    LL> all previous administrations.

    Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a balanced
    position on this account. That why everything was peaceful when
    Yanukovich was in power.

    LL> That probably explains why the current president has lost his
    LL> majority, and may be on his way out later this year to whoever
    LL> runs against him.

    The main problem is that the Ukraine ultra-nationalists actually can
    dictate their will to any Ukrainian president. That's why stopping the
    war in the Ukrainian east is unlikely.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:21:26
    Hello, alexander!

    Monday January 24 2022 10:18, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a balanced position on this account. That why everything was peaceful when
    Yanukovich was in power.

    Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.



    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Bj├╢rn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 24, 2022 08:29:57
    Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
    When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
    others.

    One day we need to share a beer ...

    I'll drink to that.




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Bj├╢rn Felten on Monday, January 24, 2022 09:00:35
    One day we need to share a beer ...

    I'll drink to that.

    With you too ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 24, 2022 03:06:38
    Hello, alexander!

    Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never allow it.

    It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Monday, January 24, 2022 15:37:12
    It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be
    no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak
    ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into
    the great russian:

    You guys are all idiots.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 24, 2022 10:41:40
    Hello, Ward!

    It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there
    are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that
    "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it:
    "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called
    ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that
    many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as
    a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:

    You guys are all idiots.

    I'm not russian.
    But in the recent Article by Vladimir Putin "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians".
    Read his speech:
    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181
    A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in Europe".
    This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians believe. If he believes that russians and ukrainians were a whole: quote "I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people - a single whole." Maybe he wishes to "repair wrongdoing". If he thinks he was "chosen" for this "mission" and the people and the army support him we could have a russian invasion of the Eastern Ukraine (in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).
    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Monday, January 24, 2022 18:02:16
    Ghil,

    (in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).

    1) The territorial entity of Ukraine is known; Ukraine does not need to
    reconquer what is already Ukraine;

    2) The Donbass-matter can only be solved by political negotiations. Violence
    is "never" the answer.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 24, 2022 13:04:06
    Hello, Ward!

    (in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).

    1) The territorial entity of Ukraine is known; Ukraine does not need
    to
    reconquer what is already Ukraine;

    2) The Donbass-matter can only be solved by political negotiations. Violence
    is "never" the answer.

    1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the fate of Ukraine and not ukrainians? Lavrov and Blinken concluded the talks. They just decided its fate. And Zelensky is not acting by himself.

    2. This issue won't be solved peacefully. Just like it started. And I am merely an observer.
    From Zelensky's today speech: "We have learned to deter and counter external aggression quite effectively. I am convinced that the time has come to move to offensive actions to defend our national interests. You have the experience and ability to implement such a strategy. Intelligence, the ability to generate unconventional solutions to acute problems, the courage and dedication of every intelligence officer should remain effective tools used for the benefit of our state"
    https://tinyurl.com/yvkfpw29 https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/zovnishnya-rozvidka-vidigraye-vazhlivu-rol-u-protidiyi-zagro-72517
    And UK is also withdrawing embassy staff and families from Kiev. That means the war could reach as far as Kiev. Russians allways spoke of "Kiev as the 'mother of Russian cities'.
    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Monday, January 24, 2022 22:17:12
    Ghil,

    1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the fate
    of Ukraine and not ukrainians?

    Yes.

    BTW, please remind us here who started this and on what pre-text.

    Really, I thought that the military invasion of one country by another was something of the past, maybe only in totalitarian regimes with dictators.

    Another Russian economical debacle in the making ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 01:18:26
    Hello, Ward!

    1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the
    fate of Ukraine and not ukrainians?

    Yes.

    BTW, please remind us here who started this and on what pre-text.

    Really, I thought that the military invasion of one country by another
    was something of the past, maybe only in totalitarian regimes with dictators.

    Another Russian economical debacle in the making ...

    But it's happening right here and right now. And it's true that russian opinion of Ukraine is as its own backyard. And at the same time the americans are arming ukrainians. There will be blood! And nothing you nor I can do about it.
    After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 09:46:07
    Ghil,

    After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

    1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
    I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
    have landed in Minsk

    2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:28:06
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:04

    ak>> When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation
    ak>> is above others.
    DP> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
    DP> school exams?:)

    You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 19:24:11
    Hi! Ward,

    On 25 Jan 22 09:46, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

    2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

    No need. The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia. No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    ... Do not open tagline. No user-serviceable parts inside.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny-side up on the desktop (3:640/1384)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:32:23
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:05

    ak>> Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans.;-)
    DP> As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some
    DP> Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment -
    DP> just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some
    DP> geopolitican reasons:)

    The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
    are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was
    100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:30:36
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 12:28, you wrote to me:

    That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
    school exams?:)

    You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop
    being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

    West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same language law as Russia? :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:34:23
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:14

    ak>> The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they
    ak>> bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic,
    ak>> Yugoslavia also had the
    DP> But who was going to stop civil war?
    ak>> right to return its lost territories back.
    DP> "Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

    You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but
    very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:38:24
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 12:32, you wrote to me:

    The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
    are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was

    War is always a disaster. But i don't see that people in Russia are unhappy because Russian air forces in Syria killed a lot of children.

    100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

    We had our own Chechnya. A disaster created by ourselves.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:41:12
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 12:34, you wrote to me:

    "Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

    You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but

    I talk to Russians in Ukraine every single day multiple times. They are my colleagues, but not brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

    very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

    You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
    Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs to keep Yugoslavia alive?


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:47:42
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:21

    ak>> Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a
    ak>> balanced position on this account. That why everything was
    ak>> peaceful when Yanukovich was in power.
    DP> Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

    The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that situation
    who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the peaceful
    agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:59:52
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 24.01.2022 11:06

    ak>> Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to
    ak>> dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never
    ak>> allow it.
    GZ> It could be the other way around! Many russians say that:
    GZ> "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people"
    GZ> and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin
    GZ> said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so
    called
    GZ> ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many
    GZ> russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a
    tool to
    GZ> assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
    GZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

    The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian at
    home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution
    is to preserve both the languages and make the country with areas that
    speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all
    people living in the country.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:54:30
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 12:47, you wrote to me:

    Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

    The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
    situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
    peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

    The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 13:04:57
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 24.01.2022 18:41

    GZ> A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all
    GZ> descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in
    GZ> Europe". This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians
    GZ> believe.

    Historically it is true. There were never such countries as Ukraine and Belarus. They always were parts of either Poland or Russia, when Poland
    itself became a part of Russia. But it was long ago.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 13:17:21
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:30

    DP>>> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia
    DP>>> for school exams?:)
    ak>> You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs
    ak>> to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)
    DP> West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
    DP> understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
    DP> language law as Russia?:)

    Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
    Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can
    speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from Ukraine
    speak Russian.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 13:20:28
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 13:17, you wrote to me:

    West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
    understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
    language law as Russia?:)

    Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
    Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can

    But why Tatars can't use their own language for school exams?

    speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from
    Ukraine speak Russian.

    Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force Ukranians speak Russian.
    It was impossible to live in Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 13:29:49
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:41

    ak>> very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia.;-)
    DP> You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
    DP> but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
    DP> Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
    DP> to keep Yugoslavia alive?

    It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On
    the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
    population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII. ;-)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 05:37:40
    Hello, alexander!

    The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian
    at home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the country with
    areas that speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada,
    Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in the country.

    Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because russian would dominate. In all areas. If we would apply the same logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140 mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people today speak english instead of irish.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 13:32:06
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 13:29, you wrote to me:

    You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
    but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
    Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
    to keep Yugoslavia alive?

    It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On

    Civil was is always a disaster. And NATO stopped that war. Croatia, Serbia and other former republics now live peacefully.
    Wthout NATO this bloodshed was going to continue for many years.

    the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
    population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO

    But do you know what happended before the 1995?
    And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

    helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII.
    ;-)

    All I know is that I can now visit Croatia and Serbia (and I did this 4 years ago), there is no war there.
    And average salary in Croatia is higher than in Russia :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 14:17:57
    Hello Ward,

    It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no
    ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be
    no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were
    one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an
    excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak
    ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into
    the great russian:

    You guys are all idiots.

    It won't be long before tanks start rolling in Stcckholm ...

    .... and then onwards to Brussels.

    --Lee

    --
    Nobody Beats Our Meat

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 10:44:44
    Hello, Dmitry!

    The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
    situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
    peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo
    was preserved.

    The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
    Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

    Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had such power over Yanukovych?

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Tuesday, January 25, 2022 21:13:50
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ghil!

    Tuesday January 25 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

    The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
    Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

    Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had
    such power over Yanukovych?

    We know nothing about their personal relations..

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:03:07
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:37


    ak>> The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks
    ak>> Russian at home and consider it as a native language. So the only
    ak>> possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the
    ak>> country with areas that speak different languages. Like
    ak>> Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end
    ak>> of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in
    ak>> the country.

    GZ> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
    GZ> russian would dominate. In all areas.

    Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
    nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

    In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
    intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

    GZ> If we would apply the same
    GZ> logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are
    GZ> less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140
    GZ> mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were
    GZ> 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian
    GZ> language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people
    GZ> today speak english instead of irish.

    Well, Estonians can make a law that every Estonian should know Estonian.
    But why Russian children in Estonia should study in Russian schools in Estonian only? You know perfectly well, that if you have a difficulty in understanding a certain thing reading it in your native language, you
    will never understand it better studying it a foreign language. So in
    Estonian schools should be lessons of Estonian, but certainly Russian
    children there should be taught other subjects in the language of their choice.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:12:57
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:32

    ak>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
    ak>> Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
    ak>> 1995. Why NATO
    DP> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
    DP> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

    It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:17:58
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday January 26 2022 10:12, you wrote to me:

    the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
    Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
    1995. Why NATO
    But do you know what happended before the 1995?
    And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

    It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the
    ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

    I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 26, 2022 09:08:39
    In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
    intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

    The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it into a military conflict.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Wednesday, January 26, 2022 05:44:02
    Hello, alexander!

    Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
    russian would dominate. In all areas.

    Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
    nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do
    the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

    I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we would make russian official then they would have one more excuse not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

    In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for
    centuries!

    I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100 years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their own republics and created their own literary languages.
    If I would be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much? They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!
    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Ward Dossche on Thursday, January 27, 2022 08:54:13
    On 25/01/2022 18:46, Ward Dossche : Ghil Zvidgzul wrote:
    Ghil,

    After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

    Australia will do whatever its US overlords tell it to do.

    1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
    ┬а┬а I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
    ┬а┬а have landed in Minsk

    2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

    Too late! The Kiwis have already invaded Australia.


    --
    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
    * Origin: Stanthorpe, Qld (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Paul Quinn on Thursday, January 27, 2022 08:54:52
    On 25/01/2022 19:24, Paul Quinn : Ward Dossche wrote:

    ┬аWD>> 2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

    No need.┬а The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia.┬а No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

    :)

    --
    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
    * Origin: Stanthorpe, Qld (3:640/305)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Thursday, January 27, 2022 08:45:40
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 26.01.2022 10:17

    ak>>>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big
    ak>>>> areas with Serbs population which was either
    ak>>>> killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO
    DP>>> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
    DP>>> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in
    DP>>> 1991?
    ak>> It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious
    ak>> -- the ultra- nationalists are to blame here too.
    DP> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

    Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
    wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations
    when some fucking guys clench power with a dead grip, and they refuse to
    give up power at any price. A building becomes unreconstructable prison,
    and the only way out is to blow it up all and build a new building. I
    like how it happen in Romania. ;-)

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ward Dossche on Thursday, January 27, 2022 08:47:44
    Hi, Ward Dossche!
    I read your message from 26.01.2022 11:08

    ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian --
    ak>> so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian
    ak>> language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the
    ak>> Russian language was used for centuries!
    WD> The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
    WD> historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
    WD> into a military conflict.

    May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

    Bye, Ward!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Thursday, January 27, 2022 09:12:01
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 26.01.2022 13:44

    GZ>>> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
    GZ>>> russian would dominate. In all areas.

    ak>> Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A
    ak>> human nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he
    ak>> will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

    GZ> I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and
    GZ> 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because
    GZ> russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we
    GZ> would make russian official then they would have one more excuse
    GZ> not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for
    GZ> everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian
    GZ> speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

    You should see how it has been done in the civilized countries, that's
    all. Take for instance the prosperous Switzerland. They don't fuck each
    other brains on the account of languages. Another matter is that unltra-nationalists as a rule don't respect people of another nations.

    ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so,
    ak>> hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there.
    ak>> But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used
    ak>> for centuries!

    GZ> I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100
    GZ> years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the
    GZ> Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary
    GZ> language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains
    GZ> of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by
    GZ> russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the
    GZ> modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and

    If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas
    as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

    GZ> peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian
    GZ> (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their
    GZ> own republics and created their own literary languages. If I would
    GZ> be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have
    GZ> common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew
    GZ> that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then
    GZ> it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin
    GZ> speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the
    GZ> same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much?
    GZ> They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!

    Just imagine another situation. Suppose that in 2014 Russian
    east-ukrainian ultra-nationalists came to power in Kiev, and they
    declared Russian to be the only eligible language in a unilateral Russian-speaking Ukraine. Then partisans would fight in western Ukraine,
    and we see the reversed situation. ;-)
    The matter is not who can learn another language. The matter is in
    violation of freedoms and customs of people that formed for centuries. Especially it is dangerous when two nations divide one country.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 27, 2022 02:14:44
    Hello, alexander!

    If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is
    also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

    3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine, Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate. Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s.
    Not to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those cossacks - as little russians.
    For an english speaker who doesn't know better it could look russian: https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
    But we both know this is ukrainian.
    The lands of Don Cossacks and Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33 (Holodomor).
    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 27, 2022 15:16:04
    Hello, alexander!

    Thursday January 27 2022 08:45, you wrote to me:

    I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

    Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
    wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations

    I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Thursday, January 27, 2022 13:58:00
    Alexander,

    The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
    historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
    into a military conflict.

    May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

    What you can notice here is that people don't really give a fuck about that language... it's just a language. Massive floods in July killed a pile of people and destroyed hundreds of homes ... the solidarity from the other language-community was impressive ... more help than the government managed to offer.

    What we notice is that the langauge-border is also an economical border with opportunities lacking "on the other side" and it is 'that' which causes the uneasyness. So I'm assuming in Ukraine it is somewhat the same ... it's about opportunities for business, to find jobs, to provide a future for a family ... opportunities which are lacking in one of the regions.

    This is something that could be handled by the EU if Ukraine were to join because the EU recognizes special needs of regions separate from what the country-borders are ... there are support programmes especially for that purpose ...

    It's not bout Ukraine being governed from Brussels, it remains autonomous but about the opportunity to tap into resources which are available and develop itself ... that is totally different from a system where an individual in a palace in Moscow decides for himself what is good ...

    The best tool to eliminate hostility and to prevent wars, is to promote trade and economic processes, that's exactly why the foundation of the EU was laid way back when ... to prevent historical foes Germany and France to launch yet another WW debacle once the dust had settled ... and it seems it worked. No more wars between the EU members ever since its creation.

    I'm young enough to remember Soviet troops invading Hungary, Czechoslvakia, Poland ... every time with troops coming from far in the east having no clue what was up and brainwashed thinking they were on a liberation mission or exercises having no idea in which country they were.

    If you go to Budapest, there still are the buildings with battle-damage from the 1956 uprising ... Hungarians decided to keep it as a reminder ... I can't believe Russians will want to repeat history and think you can solve a thing by military interventions ... that goes as well for the USA btw.

    War is good for business, all kinds of tools are developed to kill people and why buy them if you can't use them, right? Armies are also a way to hide unemployment ... if you're too dumb or too lazy to get a job, go into the armed forces, they provide meals home clothing and a salary .... In the middle ages and after the kings had mercenaries to carry-out their dirty business, that has not changed. That's not the way to go ... if you see the cost that goes into armies like the USA, Russia, China ... that money is more than enough to eradicate hunger and poverty in the whole world, even on Antarctica.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 26 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 28, 2022 04:16:06
    Hello Dmitry,

    I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

    Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
    wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations

    I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

    It got him (and his sons) to paradise.

    --Lee

    --
    Nobody Beats Our Meat

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Friday, January 28, 2022 09:50:24
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 27.01.2022 10:14

    ak>> If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English
    ak>> is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at
    ak>> least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been
    ak>> Russian.

    GZ> 3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine,
    GZ> Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated
    GZ> by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate.
    GZ> Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s. Not
    GZ> to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by
    GZ> the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language
    GZ> spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little
    GZ> Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those
    GZ> cossacks - as little russians. For an english speaker who doesn't
    GZ> know better it could look russian:
    GZ> https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
    GZ> But we both know this is ukrainian. The lands of Don Cossacks and
    GZ> Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33
    GZ> (Holodomor). Ghil.

    Well, let's leave the history alone -- historians often were not
    unbiassed, and wrote their works according orders from the current
    authority, or according own perverted understanding.

    Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in Ukraine
    still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept anything
    unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will
    be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and fight back and
    will make a running nose to the offender.

    In other words, if Ukrainian nationlists thought about Russian part of population in Ukraine as a weak person - it was a gross mistake. And
    they should learn a wise Chinese saying -- don't start a war if you
    unsure you can win. Both parts of Ukraine are strong and they must live peacefully and respect each other.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 28, 2022 09:57:56
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 27.01.2022 15:16

    DP>>> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much
    DP>>> better.
    ak>> Political views of course are another reason for civil
    ak>> wars, but these wars always move history forward. The main
    ak>> problem are the situations
    DP> I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
    DP> Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

    An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know
    that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no
    proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
    sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life in
    Lybia was not bad as it is now.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Friday, January 28, 2022 10:41:00
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:20

    ak>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
    ak>> from Ukraine speak Russian.
    DP> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
    DP> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
    DP> Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

    Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 28, 2022 04:20:48
    Hello, alexander!

    Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
    Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended
    by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept
    anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and
    fight back and will make a running nose to the offender.

    How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin or bolsheviks for that): https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt
    You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian). Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic Ukrainians.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 28, 2022 13:33:38
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Friday January 28 2022 09:57, you wrote to me:

    I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
    Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

    An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know

    Military destruction of several African states to create delusional Great Islamic State of the Sahel - was ok for you?

    that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no

    Do you know anything about Islamic Legion which was used by Ghaddafi for that task?

    proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
    sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life

    Do you know that Ghaddafi was even paying to Australian aboriginals to create terrorists cells in Australia?

    in Lybia was not bad as it is now.

    You cannot rape minds of the whole generations for many years and expect country to became some normal country after that.
    I know Lybian guy who still remembers how he was warching public hangings on Lybian TV as a child where people were agonizing hanging on the ropes and Huda Amer (very famous Lybian politican, Benghazi major later in her life under Ghaddafi's rule) was pulling legs of some guy with screams that he deserve that.

    Do you still pro-Ghaddafi? May be you also think that Stalin's mass purges were ok for our country?

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Friday, January 28, 2022 13:49:40
    Hello, alexander!

    Friday January 28 2022 10:41, you wrote to me:

    speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
    from Ukraine speak Russian.
    Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
    Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
    Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

    Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

    I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for Ukraine as we have in Russia?
    Because you are Russian nationalists?

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ghil Zvidgzul on Sunday, January 30, 2022 16:46:42
    Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
    I read your message from 28.01.2022 12:20

    ak>> Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
    ak>> Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be
    ak>> offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make
    ak>> and accept anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead
    ak>> of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow
    ak>> to be offended and fight back and will make a running nose to the
    ak>> offender.

    GZ> How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is
    GZ> speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to
    GZ> ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front
    GZ> where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time
    GZ> they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they
    GZ> are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same
    GZ> time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of
    GZ> russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin
    GZ> or bolsheviks for that):

    https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt

    On the market you try to sell in your sack a dog instead of a piglet.
    Govori (or dialects) (the map is govori map) has nothing in common with languages.
    It is the map of dialects of the Russain language across Russia, but the Ukrainian language is not a dialect. The map tells how Russian language
    was distorted on different part of Russia. And in Ukraine of course it
    has the influence of the Ukraine and Polish languages. The author
    exactly told about dialects of the Russian language.

    GZ> You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian).
    GZ> Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor
    GZ> famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most
    GZ> ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those
    GZ> who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic
    GZ> Ukrainians.

    It is a propaganda -- in that famine killed people many nations, Russian including. It is a lie to say that it was only Ukrainians. Volga region
    was effected not less than part of Ukraine.

    Bye, Ghil!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Sunday, January 30, 2022 16:58:01
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 28.01.2022 13:49

    ak>>>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people
    ak>>>> that came from Ukraine speak Russian.
    DP>>> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
    DP>>> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in
    DP>>> Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian
    DP>>> language.
    ak>> Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.
    DP> I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for
    DP> Ukraine as we have in Russia? Because you are Russian
    DP> nationalists?

    I say it once more -- Ukraine is divided in two parts, and it was always obvious. Western Ukrainians hate Russians and they probably have the
    right not to learn Russian. As well as Russians in eastern and southern
    parts have right not to speak Ukrainian. They are equal in this
    question, and when somebody orders any people to speak different
    language it violates their freedom. If Russian people in Ukraine be
    happy to start speak Ukrainian there will be no Crimea separation and
    Dombass war.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ghil Zvidgzul@2:5030/1081.117 to alexander koryagin on Sunday, January 30, 2022 09:26:46
    Hello, alexander!

    https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt

    On the market you try to sell in your sack a dog instead of a piglet. Govori (or dialects) (the map is govori map) has nothing in common
    with languages. It is the map of dialects of the Russain language

    In 1914 in Russian Empire that was exactly how the russian language was divided by the linguists into: Great Russian, Little Russian and White Russian (each with it's own 'govory'). Little Russian (ukrainian) was spoken exactly where the map shows. Ukrainian(litte russian) and Belarus (white russian) weren't even considered languages but merely dialects of the russian language.
    In fact in Moscow and Vladivostok today they speak exactly the same language because the spoken form of the "Russian language" which is Moscovian dialect/Standard Russian was that of the nobility and bourgeoise in the Russian empire. Peasant's speech was not studied and after the Russian Revolution rapidly declined and dissapeared.

    Ghil.
    --- -А вы бы искусством занялись. Поэзией, что ли?
    * Origin: Муравьиным спиртом советую натереть (2:5030/1081.117)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Sunday, January 30, 2022 17:57:12
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Sunday January 30 2022 16:58, you wrote to me:

    I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for
    Ukraine as we have in Russia? Because you are Russian
    nationalists?

    I say it once more -- Ukraine is divided in two parts, and it was
    always obvious. Western Ukrainians hate Russians and they probably

    I've been there and no one around hated me.

    have the right not to learn Russian. As well as Russians in eastern

    "Right no to learn Russian" - that's funny!

    and southern parts have right not to speak Ukrainian. They are equal

    Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some ethnic group.

    in this question, and when somebody orders any people to speak
    different language it violates their freedom. If Russian people in

    So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to speak Russian?


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Alexander Koryagin on Saturday, January 22, 2022 12:36:14
    BY: alexander koryagin(2:5075/128.130)


    A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
    in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds of years before.
    Boundary lines change. Such as the United States inheriting territory. Unfortunately Biden is literally Putin's puppet more than the left in the United States thinking Trump was Putin's puppet.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Monday, January 31, 2022 09:26:52
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 30.01.2022 17:57

    DP> Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those
    DP> people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some
    DP> ethnic group.
    ak>> in this question, and when somebody orders any people to
    ak>> speak different language it violates their freedom. If
    ak>> Russian people in
    DP> So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to
    DP> speak Russian?

    It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect
    to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and Ukrainians
    in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the person who must be called an Ukrainian?

    The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke
    Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
    them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the
    Tsarist time -- it happened historically, without orders - the Ossetian
    people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their
    small territory. In other words the initiative to speak Russian was from
    them, and it was their decision.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 31, 2022 14:02:42
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Monday January 31 2022 09:26, you wrote to me:

    It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect

    "Order" is not something we have in Russia ;)

    to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and
    Ukrainians in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the
    person who must be called an Ukrainian?

    I know some of them. Nice people, BTW!

    The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
    them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the

    It was like this, in fact.

    Tsarist time -- it happened historically, without orders - the
    Ossetian people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their small territory. In other words the initiative to speak Russian
    was from them, and it was their decision.

    No, they were forced to do it. Just ask anyone from Osetia - are they ok to use they native language for school exams?


    Best regards,
    dp.
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Monday, January 31, 2022 22:37:04
    Hello Alexader,

    Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those
    people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some
    ethnic group.

    That may be a stretch, as there are many regions. And times change.
    Not really sure if it is even possible to totally eliminate the use
    of a language among a people. Note China's attempts to use Mandarin
    as it's national language. Too many people, in different areas, who
    speak their own dialect or language. Which is why those from Beijing
    and Shanghai cannot understand a word of what they are saying to
    each other.

    in this question, and when somebody orders any people to
    speak different language it violates their freedom. If
    Russian people in
    So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to
    speak Russian?

    It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect
    to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and Ukrainians
    in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the person who must be called an Ukrainian?

    The USA has no official language. The majority of people speak English,
    but nobody is under any legal obligation. There are many people in the
    USA who speak Spanish. And French. And other languages. But most who
    speak other languages are also are able to speak at least some English.

    The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
    them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the Tsarist time

    The use of Ukrainian sign language was banned in educational systems
    of the USSR (including during the Soviet occupation of Ukraine.)
    Josef Stalin never gave the language much credence, calling deaf
    people "anomalous human beings" and described gesture language as
    "not a language at all, but a surrogate."

    The use of Ukrainian sign language in educating deaf people in
    Ukraine did not get reintroduced until 2006.

    source: wikipedia

    After release of the Ukrainian film "The Tribe" in 2014 (entirely
    in the sign language of the deaf community of Ukraine), the whole
    world knew such a language actually exists and is spoken by many
    deaf people.

    -- it happened historically, without orders - the Ossetian
    people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their small territory.

    I beg your pardon?

    Many Cajuns still speak Cajun French, even though the majority
    of people in Louisiana speak English. Why should those who speak
    Ukrainian have a problem speaking their native tongue in their
    own country? The deaf community in Ukraine most certainly has
    survived, along with their own sign language.

    In other words the initiative to speak Russian was from
    them, and it was their decision.

    Not one word of Russian sign language was spoken in "The Tribe".

    --Lee

    --
    Often Licked, Never Beaten

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Tuesday, February 01, 2022 16:40:10
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 01.02.2022 00:37

    ak>> -- it happened historically, without orders - the Ossetian people
    ak>> understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their small
    ak>> territory.

    LL> I beg your pardon?

    Well, suppose that a small Russian community lives in New York, and it
    has a right not to speak English and live as their ancestors lived. Will
    they isolate themselves in a ghetto? No, they voluntarily will learn
    English. Without fines and threats.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tuesday, February 01, 2022 18:52:38
    Hello Alexander,

    -- it happened historically, without orders - the Ossetian people
    understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their small
    territory.

    I beg your pardon?

    Well, suppose that a small Russian community lives in New York, and it
    has a right not to speak English and live as their ancestors lived. Will they isolate themselves in a ghetto? No, they voluntarily will learn English. Without fines and threats.

    You have never been to Dulac, Louisiana. The fellow who just fought
    for the world heavyweight boxing championship (Jonathan Guidry) is
    from there. Speaks fluent Cajun French. Known locally as the Swamp
    King. He grew up shrimping, living on a shrimp boat. That is how he
    built up muscles the size of King Kong. Packs a whale of a punch.
    Lost title fight in a split decision to Trevor Bryan three days ago.

    --Lee

    --
    In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)