Wilfred wrote (2021-02-12):

Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s) in
use for decades?

A couple of years back there was someone who put together a document describing the different pkt formats in use. It was discussed here, but I don't know what happend to it, because the name it was given:

Publication: FSP-1040 draft 3
Revision: 1
Title: Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats
Author: Stephen Hurd 1:103/1
Date: 2016-02-11

Thanks, found it:
https://bbsdev.net/fsp/FSP-1040.txt

Good work by Stephen (and feedback from mark lewis). It's sad that it didn't get published.

I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

WOW! What an extraordinary sharp-eyed find! You really should earn a place in the now defunct FTSC -- but first you have to fix the name that you present to all of us in the header.

Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Bj”rn Felten wrote to Oli <=-

I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

WOW! What an extraordinary sharp-eyed find! You really should
earn a place in the now defunct FTSC -- but first you have to fix
the name that you present to all of us in the header.

Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a
letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?

Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

Why is he allowed to post in here? Can't the boss node of his point
enforce the rules? Why hasn't that person configured his system
properly?



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

-={ 2021-02-13 14:06:58.413218119+00:00 }=-

Hey Oli!

I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type
2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for
"day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

I believe that is a consequence of time.h and has nothing to do with fidonet. It is all in the localtime() structure that 0-11 for months was used rather than the 01-12 used for months in strftime() which is also part of time.h. According to c89 standards output for strftime does include enough % specifiers to output proper iso-8601 or even a rfc-3339 formatted datetime stamp. For sure "2021-02-13 14:06:58 +0000" is doable and is backwards compatible to c89. We could have been using a four digit year since day one.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Þæt folc bið gesælig... and gesundful þurh gesceadwisne reccend.
A people is made happy and prosperous by a wise ruler.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Dan,

On 2021-02-13 07:47:00, you wrote to Bj”rn Felten:

Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a
letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?

Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name?

"Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

Well, true enough. But to his defence I'd like to add that Google has breached our barricades, so now every message where our true names occur can end up in a Google search.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a
letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?

Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name?

"Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not
exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in
Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his
messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really
posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

Perhaps all true, but not really the point.

What if one is NOT using Golded with that point list installed, like all
of the people in Zone 1, for example?

Most Fidonet echos "require" a real name. Does this one? If so, why is
he being allowed to post here with that name?



... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Bj”rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

Well, true enough. But to his defence I'd like to add that
Google has breached our barricades, so now every message where
our true names occur can end up in a Google search.

Probably true as well. But that doesn't change the rules in here. If a person is that worried about their real name showing up, they shouldn't
post at all. The rules apply to everyone, not just the non-paranoid
ones. He shouldn't be allowed to post here with that name.



... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi Dan,

On 2021-02-13 09:20:00, you wrote to me:

"Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not
exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in
Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his
messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really
posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

Perhaps all true, but not really the point.

What if one is NOT using Golded with that point list installed, like all of the people in Zone 1, for example?

Anyone can get the pointlist, and you don't need Golded to look at it's content, it's just an ascii file, like any nodelist.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Dan wrote (2021-02-13):

Most Fidonet echos "require" a real name. Does this one? If so, why is he being allowed to post here with that name?

We had this discussion already some months/years ago. Read the rules.

What about calling people assholes, tell them to die and other stuff? Is that somehow covered by the 'rules'? If you like law and order, please behave yourself.

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

On 13 Feb 21 09:23:00, Dan Clough said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

Probably true as well. But that doesn't change the rules in here. If a person is that worried about their real name showing up, they shouldn't post at all. The rules apply to everyone, not just the non-paranoid
ones. He shouldn't be allowed to post here with that name.

Echo mods can't really enforce rules anymore, due to the now-common meshing topology in place where many systems peer with many others for an Echomail area. At least one-third of all systems connecting here are redundant feeds. A moderator kinda needs to hope and pray that a system distributing an area honours whatever request is made. Feed cuts are almost impossible. This kindof explains why Lefaso gets away with murder, Oli is just as pretentious as Bono and Vague "is" vague.

We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail "control" known as an Elist where one can list a moderator, rules, real names or not, etc. with
a central system but I do not see how its practically enforceable.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

13 Feb 21 10:47, you wrote to Dan Clough:

We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail "control"
known as an Elist where one can list a moderator, rules, real names or not, etc. with a central system but I do not see how its practically enforceable.

I have no idea whether your real name is Nick Andre. It probably is but I do not care.

The "real names" policy of some FidoNet echos has always revolved around elitist gatekeeping nonsense and is completely unenforcable, now more than ever.

The commercial social media site Twitter has been running for at least 15 years and does not require real names, despite the pleas of a minority - mostly from a handful of people who signed up for accounts years after the site began.

Facebook no longer tries to enforce real names in Germany (and perhaps now worldwide) since courts ruled that Facebook's real name policy violated Germans' right to privacy.

And there are good reasons not to require real names. Victims of stalking or domestic violence commonly use aliases online.

Now, presumably we don't want to ban those people from FTSC_PUBLIC or other FidoNet echos. In which case we accept that pseduonyms are actually acceptable and don't need to be justified, and so therefore we have no rational justification for banning mononyms either, because at that point it makes absolutely no difference what someone's psuedonym is. I suppose all we can ask is people be consistent, within reason.

And there do happen to be people around the world with a mononym as their legal name. Two English-speaking people with mononyms that spring to mind are the magician Teller (of the Penn & Teller duo) and Australian IT journalist Stilgherrian.

This would've been a problem for them over the years in the unlikely event they tried to login to any BBS running Maximus, which from memory was hard-coded to require new users to enter two names to register. I don't think Maximus was alone there either. A lot of web sites have the same problem. Many of those web sites also have issues with two character surnames (common in Asia) or the use of apostrophes (common in Ireland), among other things.

And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm not defending trolls. If people have a problem with someone's attitude on here, that's a clearly separate issue.

--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Re: "Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats" (Ex FSP-1040)
By: Maurice Kinal to Oli on Sat Feb 13 2021 02:06 pm

-={ 2021-02-13 14:06:58.413218119+00:00 }=-

Hey Oli!

I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type
2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for
"day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

I believe that is a consequence of time.h and has nothing to do with fidonet. It is all in the localtime() structure that 0-11 for months was used rather than the 01-12 used for months in strftime() which is also part of time.h. According to c89 standards output for strftime does include enough % specifiers to output proper iso-8601 or even a rfc-3339 formatted datetime stamp. For sure "2021-02-13 14:06:58 +0000" is doable and is backwards compatible to c89. We could have been using a four digit year since day one.

The month field being discussed here is from the packet header, which is binary (not a string of text). The date field you're referring to is in a "packed message" header. The *year* field of the packet header is already 16-bits, so can already accomodate years up to 65535.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

-={ 2021-02-13 21:07:20.634530056+00:00 }=-

Hey Rob!

The month field being discussed here is from the packet header,
which is binary (not a string of text).

And exactly where was it called from? I am guessing localtime() which explains the resulting 0-11 reported. Same can be said for other sources of localtime() such as perl, python, etc. They are all based on time.h.

Where is your software getting the date and time from?

The date field you're referring to is in a "packed message"
header. The *year* field of the packet header is already 16-bits,
so can already accomodate years up to 65535.

Understood but I was just using that as an example that the two digit year used in packed message header didn't need to be a two digit year which is contained in the string output for the DateTime field. In other words the format was bogus given that fact and could eaily be the cause of the poorly designed and deployed fts-4008 aka TZUTC.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Sorg ond slæp somod ætgædre earmne anhogan oft gebindað.
Sorrow and sleep both together often bind the wretched solitary person.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Re: "Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats" (Ex FSP-1040)
By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 2021 09:07 pm

-={ 2021-02-13 21:07:20.634530056+00:00 }=-

Hey Rob!

The month field being discussed here is from the packet header,
which is binary (not a string of text).

And exactly where was it called from?

Huh?

I am guessing localtime() which explains the resulting 0-11 reported.

It's not uncommon for January to represented as a 0. This allows for logical indexing into an array of strings (where "Jan" or "January" would be the first, or 0th, item in the array). This design is not specific to the C runtime localtime() function:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/getMonth

Same can be said for other sources of
localtime() such as perl, python, etc. They are all based on time.h.

Where is your software getting the date and time from?

It depends on the context, but usually from time(). When SBBSecho exports to FTN "packed messages", it uses localtime() to convert the stored time_t to a struct tm and then I use sprintf to format into the standard DateTime field syntax.

#define TM_YEAR(yy) ((yy)%100)
time_t tt = msg.hdr.when_written.time;
struct tm* tm;
if((tm = localtime(&tt)) != NULL)
sprintf(hdr.time,"%02u %3.3s %02u %02u:%02u:%02u"
,tm->tm_mday,mon[tm->tm_mon],TM_YEAR(tm->tm_year)
,tm->tm_hour,tm->tm_min,tm->tm_sec);

The date field you're referring to is in a "packed message"
header. The *year* field of the packet header is already 16-bits,
so can already accomodate years up to 65535.

Understood but I was just using that as an example that the two digit year used in packed message header didn't need to be a two digit year which is contained in the string output for the DateTime field. In other words the format was bogus given that fact and could eaily be the cause of the poorly designed and deployed fts-4008 aka TZUTC.

You could sum up the vast majority of FidoNet in those two words: "poorly designed". I guess we shouldn't really have expected more from technology developed by amateurs. There was plenty of higher quality "prior art" available at the time to learn or copy from, but those earlier Fido-pioneers thought they were the first ones to invent this particular kind of wheel.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

-={ 2021-02-13 23:12:21.152375887+00:00 }=-

Hey Rob!

It's not uncommon for January to represented as a 0.

You're making my point, as your example with JavaScript demonstrates. It is derived from c's time.h.

it uses localtime()

A time.h function along with gmtime() and strftime(). I'd be surprised if those functions weren't included in JavaScript given localtime().

to convert the stored time_t to a struct tm and then I use sprintf
to format into the standard DateTime field syntax.

strftime() works just as well, even replicating two digit year formats such as the packed message header's DateTime string. As simple as using '%d %b %y %T' in the specifier field of the strftime() call, including using the c89 standards. However I believe '%F %T %z' to be the superior output for a packed meassage DateTime string.

You could sum up the vast majority of FidoNet in those two
words: "poorly designed".

Probably. I believe having these types of conversations in public has the potential towards solving that flaw.

I guess we shouldn't really have expected more from technology
developed by amateurs.

Speak for yourself. I do expect more. Both from them, whoever them are, as well as myself. That has always been my motivation for participating in this fine and honourable echoarea.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Fus sceal feran, fæge sweltan.
Those who are ready must go, the doomed die.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

"Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not
exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in
Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his
messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really
posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

Perhaps all true, but not really the point.

What if one is NOT using Golded with that point list installed, like all of the people in Zone 1, for example?

Anyone can get the pointlist, and you don't need Golded to look
at it's content, it's just an ascii file, like any nodelist.

Understood, but again it's not really the point. Persons posting to
Fidonet echos are supposed to be using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no
difference. They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Most Fidonet echos "require" a real name. Does this one? If so, why is he being allowed to post here with that name?

We had this discussion already some months/years ago. Read the
rules.

I'd like to read the rules. The most recent "ELISTxxx" archive I have contains a zip file of rules for various echos, but not a rules file for
this echo. Where can I find the published rules for this echo?

What about calling people assholes, tell them to die and other
stuff? Is that somehow covered by the 'rules'? If you like law
and order, please behave yourself.

That's a different thing altogether. I don't know if it's covered by
the rules, because the rules don't seem to be available. As for
behaving, I am not the one posting with a fake name.

Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?



... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Probably true as well. But that doesn't change the rules in here. If a person is that worried about their real name showing up, they shouldn't post at all. The rules apply to everyone, not just the non-paranoid
ones. He shouldn't be allowed to post here with that name.

Echo mods can't really enforce rules anymore, due to the
now-common meshing topology in place where many systems peer with
many others for an Echomail area. At least one-third of all
systems connecting here are redundant feeds. A moderator kinda
needs to hope and pray that a system distributing an area honours
whatever request is made. Feed cuts are almost impossible. This
kindof explains why Lefaso gets away with murder, Oli is just as pretentious as Bono and Vague "is" vague.

Yes, I understand about the difficulty with enforcement. Seems like
somebody (moderator) could at least *SAY* something to obvious rules
violators such as this guy "Oli", though.

We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail
"control" known as an Elist where one can list a moderator,
rules, real names or not, etc. with a central system but I do not
see how its practically enforceable.

There apparently is not a rules file for this echo, unfortunately.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 14 Feb 21 05:47:28, Andrew Clarke said the following to All:

I have no idea whether your real name is Nick Andre. It probably is but I d not care.

Its "real sounding" enough. :-)

The "real names" policy of some FidoNet echos has always revolved around elitist gatekeeping nonsense and is completely unenforcable, now more than ever.

More like began as formality back in the day and just stuck as tradition.

Not every Fido echo is real-names only and not every echo is on the Elist...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Good ${greeting_time}, Bj”rn!

13 Feb 2021 15:51:54, you wrote to Dan Clough:

Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

Well, true enough. But to his defence I'd like to add that Google
has breached our barricades, so now every message where our true
names occur can end up in a Google search.

Guess where does it get the messages...

* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Just a hint.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Hello Alexey Vissarionov!

** On Monday 15.02.21 - 04:35, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to August Abolins:

Nick Andre 1:229/426

^^^^^^^
Please fix the quoting.

What's wrong with it? The original that I replied to
already had one level of >'s. My Quoting added one more
level of >'s, and your's added another column of >'s. This
reply generates a 4th. Things seem to work OK. ;)

More '>' symbols are normally added to the end of quoting
prefix, before the quoted text. So "AA> text" becomes "AA>>
text", not "> AA> text" or whatever.

Noted. Yes.. tradition would have the >'s after some pair of
initials. BUT, Carol's reply didn't have any initials in her
quoted parts. If my editor encounters a quoted line that has no
initials, it doesn't arbitrarily assume what initials they ought
to be.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

13 Feb 21 20:04, you wrote to Oli:

Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?

Why should he?

Aren't we all hiding /something/?

What if he used a fake name that sounded real?

How do you know lots of us aren't doing that already?

I mean, you don't.

Is the point just to encourage people to use convincing names that don't sound fake? I mean realistically that's the best you can ask for, right?

But for what? What actual difference does it make?

This whole real name obsession is bonkers.

--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Björn wrote (2021-02-13):

I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+)
packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of
month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

WOW! What an extraordinary sharp-eyed find! You really should earn a place in the now defunct FTSC

WOW! A place in a defunct organization, that would be some achievement, but (quoting Martin Foster): "you're forgetting something"

---
* Origin: . (2:280/464.47)

andrew clarke wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?

Why should he?

I've already answered this. Read the thread and try to keep up.

<SNIP repetitive drivel>



... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

15 Feb 21 13:56, you wrote to me:

Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?

Why should he?

I've already answered this. Read the thread and try to keep up.

I read your personal vendetta towards Oli where you began by calling him an asshole.

I also read your strong assertion that real names are required here despite only a single reassurance that was true from Carol, both of you ignoring the fact that the rules of this echo (that nobody has objected to) that have only been posted here since 2019-04-21 make no mention of it.

--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Hello Dan Clough!

** On Saturday 13.02.21 - 19:57, Dan Clough wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

...Persons posting to Fidonet echos are supposed to be
using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a
Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no difference.
They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.

I don't think there is a hard n fast rule that states all of
Fidonet = Real Names, anywhere. It has probably just been a
kind of tradition and expectation over the years.

[1] Where does the assumption that a real name must be both
first name and lastname originate or found in documentation?
Oli seems real to me especially because of [2].

[2] Oli isn't exactly not real. His messages include a point
address. That point address is traceable to the Z2PNT segment
of the nodelist. There his full name is broadcast in all its
glory.

[3] But even your name isn't consistent across other FTNs:

It's Dan Clough for:

Palantir BBS, Pensacola FL USA 1:123/115
Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 21:2/138
Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 77:1/114

But it's Daniel Clough for:

Palantir BBS, Cantonment FL 618:250/24

So, I say give Oli a break and be rest assured that Oli =
Oliver, and we can live with Dan = Daniel. ;)


--
../|ug = /|ugust



--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Guess where does it get the messages...

* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Just a hint.

I seriously doubt that it gets the messages from my news server. If you can find a search result linking to my server, I'd be very interested to know.

Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the benefit of my users.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

@MSGID: <602B3D6A.154.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <60288F10.100.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
Hello Dan Clough!

** On Saturday 13.02.21 - 19:57, Dan Clough wrote to Wilfred van
Velzen:

...Persons posting to Fidonet echos are supposed to be
using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a
Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no difference.
They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.

I don't think there is a hard n fast rule that states all of
Fidonet = Real Names, anywhere. It has probably just been a
kind of tradition and expectation over the years.

[1] Where does the assumption that a real name must be both
first name and lastname originate or found in documentation?
Oli seems real to me especially because of [2].

[2] Oli isn't exactly not real. His messages include a point
address. That point address is traceable to the Z2PNT segment
of the nodelist. There his full name is broadcast in all its
glory.

[3] But even your name isn't consistent across other FTNs:

It's Dan Clough for:

Palantir BBS, Pensacola FL USA 1:123/115
Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 21:2/138
Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 77:1/114

But it's Daniel Clough for:

Palantir BBS, Cantonment FL 618:250/24

So, I say give Oli a break and be rest assured that Oli =
Oliver, and we can live with Dan = Daniel. ;)

Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it specifically allows aliases? Cool.


... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

On 20 Feb 21 18:09:00, Vague said the following to August Abolins:

Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it specifica allows aliases? Cool.

In an Othernet, its mostly cool. In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

^^^^^^^^^
I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Re: Re: real names
By: Nick Andre to Vague on Sat Feb 20 2021 20:41:34

* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

^^^^^^^^^

I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

they did but apparently ""Vague"" hasn't been reading the replies and figured out how to change the system's originating address in all of his fidonet message bases' settings in his synchronet setup...


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

-={ 2021-02-21 01:54:20.284248904+00:00 }=-

Hey Nick!

I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
this yet

If they are really nodelist police, let them show us their badges.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Nick Andre wrote to Vague <=-

@MSGID: <6031BD66.173.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
@REPLY: <6031991C.172.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
On 20 Feb 21 18:09:00, Vague said the following to August Abolins:

Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it

pecifica

allows aliases? Cool.

In an Othernet, its mostly cool. In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires
them though.

* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

^^^^^^^^^ I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything on my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why that would happen, please let me know.


... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. === MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

Re: Re: real names
By: Vague to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 2021 09:14 pm

Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why
that would happen, please let me know.

I have a guess for you if you'd like to look. In scfg..

Message Areas -> Fidonet -> Go into any/all areas -> Network Options

And see what AKA is set there and adjust if needed.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... It's not the money I want, it's the stuff.
--- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

On 20 Feb 21 21:14:00, Vague said the following to Nick Andre:

Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why that would happen, pleas let me know.

I have no idea, I don't run SBBS but likely something simple in whatever configures the message areas.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 21 Feb 21 01:54:20, Maurice Kinal said the following to Nick Andre:

I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
this yet

If they are really nodelist police, let them show us their badges.

They do in Enet.Sysop...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Good ${greeting_time}, Bj?rn!

20 Feb 2021 12:03:50, you wrote to me:

Guess where does it get the messages...

* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Just a hint.

I seriously doubt that it gets the messages from my news server.

It gets the messages from everywhere in can reach.

If you can find a search result linking to my server, I'd be very interested to know.

Looking at your server's logs could be a wise idea.

Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the benefit of my users.

Are there any good reasons to use NNTP instead of native FTN software?


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... that's why I really dislike fools.
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

If you can find a search result linking to my server, I'd be very
interested to know.

Looking at your server's logs could be a wise idea.

Looking for what?

So you couldn't find anything then?

Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the
benefit of my users.

Are there any good reasons to use NNTP instead of native FTN software?

What? So you don't know the difference? Figures...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Vague wrote to Nick Andre <=-

* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

^^^^^^^^^ I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything on my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I
wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have
any idea why that would happen, please let me know.

Yeah.... Literally it's because your system is not configured
correctly. It's literally not possible for it to be anything else but
that. Yeah.



... Do you know where you are?
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Dan,

On Sun Feb 21 2021 09:05:00, Dan Clough wrote to Vague:

Yeah.... Literally it's because your system is not configured
correctly. It's literally not possible for it to be anything else but
that. Yeah.

Rather than being a complete dick to newer members. Why not try to offer some assistance on fixing the issue instead? This is just a hobby, after all.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Alan Ianson wrote to Vague <=-

@MSGID: <6031C7F4.177.fidonet_ftscpubl@20xd6>
@REPLY: <6031C251.176.fidonet_ftscpubl@20xd6>
Re: Re: real names
By: Vague to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 2021 09:14 pm

Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why
that would happen, please let me know.

I have a guess for you if you'd like to look. In scfg..

Message Areas -> Fidonet -> Go into any/all areas -> Network Options

And see what AKA is set there and adjust if needed.

That was is. Each individual area had to be changed independently. Thank you!


... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:135/391)

On 02-21-21 09:03, Alexey Vissarionov <=-
spoke to Bj?rn Felten about "Packet Type 2 Compatible <=-

Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the benefit of my users.

Are there any good reasons to use NNTP instead of native FTN software?

Yes. It allows more people to access his BBS. Ditto for BBSes that
allow HTML access.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 23:53:55, 21 Feb 2021
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hello Nick!

** On Saturday 20.02.21 - 20:41, Nick Andre wrote to Vague:

..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least
real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

On 22 Feb 21 09:11:00, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

Lol, I had to Google PMFJI :P

Doesn't matter, in practice its all about a real-sounding name as nobody can prove someone's posted-name is real. We don't check for ID...

Even that doesn't matter to a mod that doesn't like aliases since its extremely difficult to moderate an echo especially if its peered in a mesh
with many other systems.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Re: real names
By: August Abolins to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 22 2021 09:11 am

Hello Nick!

** On Saturday 20.02.21 - 20:41, Nick Andre wrote to Vague:

..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

--
../|ug

There's som variation though. Dan for Daniel, Ray for Raymond. Also when I was RC13, I was advised privately by a member that they were in the witness protection program so had an assumed name he was to use. I was fine with it.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Hi Andrew,

On 2021-02-14 02:21:53, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

I have FSP-1042.001 draft 6 here. As soon as the election is over
with, we can get back to work on it.

The election has been over for a while now, what is the status of FSP-1042?

Can I get it somewhere?


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)