Although Quebec has a COVID vaccination rate of 78%, higher than any US state, the number of first-dose appointments quadrupled from last
Thursday to Friday, from 1,500 to 6,000. Why, you might ask?
On Thursday, the province began requiring proof of vaccination to enter state-run alcohol and marijuana stores.
On Thursday, the province began requiring proof of vaccination to ent state-run alcohol and marijuana stores.Um, that's not really a surprise. Those who like to drink or smoke don't like to fill out surveys. I can say this with authority, because I like
to drink AND smoke! ;)
If Ontario imposes the same restrictions (may God never allow this!), you're going to see the same thing here!
I'd rather sober up than submit to Nazi-ism!
Besides, I still know plenty of people who brew/grow their own...and can be convinced with paper dollars to give me some...
Is it a survey situation in Canada? I thought the government had pretty good records on how many people got vaccinated without having to condict
a survey...
Enforcing public health regulations is in no way Nazism. I'm vaccinated and boosted, with no adverse side effects.
There's not a legal pot market here in Texas, but we can have alcohol delivered straight to our door.
Enforcing public health regulations is in no way Nazism. I'm vaccinat and boosted, with no adverse side effects.You're correct. And not listening...
This is why I called it a 'vaccine passport'. Because, unless you can prove to a guard that you have the vaccine, you're not allowed to go anywhere, or do anything. Sound familiar? (o_O)
There's not a legal pot market here in Texas, but we can have alcohol delivered straight to our door.Jeezuz! You're not even Canadian? (@_@)
Why were you talking about Quebec, then?!
You literally cannot understand the situation here. You're closer to Mexico than Canada. It goes both ways...I couldn't understand why you
guys were complaining about that winter storm... X-D
Oh, yes, that sounds quite familiar. Here in Texas we're not allowed to drive a vehicle, board a commercial flight, buy alcohol, or even vote without showing our government-issued papers.
We were totally unprepared for it. Here in particular, the electricity failed, which caused the water system to fail, and by the time they got the electricity going again, the water system was completely frozen and there was nothing they could do until the temperature came back above freezing. It's historically been extremely, extremely rare for snow to accumulate here (not so much for North Texas). It has snowed maybe once every two to five years, and that would melt off by the end of the day. Last year was quite different, though. We lost two 30-year old trees. They'd survived every winter for 30 years, until this one.
Oh, yes, that sounds quite familiar. Here in Texas we're not allowed drive a vehicle, board a commercial flight, buy alcohol, or even vote without showing our government-issued papers.Not familiar enough. Otherwise, you'd understand my 'Nazi' reference.
You may have forgotten about the last world war, but some of us still remember what we were fighting against. And yet, here it comes again!
Not in the form of vaccinations, it's not. Our children have to be vaccinated against a variety of diseases to attend public school. I was
in the US Army, and we were vaccinated whether we wanted to be or not.
This is nowhere near what was happening under the Third Reich, and is
not even a slippery slope to such.
It's simply a requirement that
citizens take personal responsibility for the health of the general public. There's nothing wrong with that.
We have signs down here that are pretty much ubiquitous at fast-food restaurants: "No shoes, no shirt, no service." That means we don't want diners having to put up with seeing anyone's stanky feet or pits while they're eating.
We also have various laws against public nudity, to
protect our sensitive eyes more than anything, let alone our respiratory systems. And yet, those aren't Nazism as well?
Not in the form of vaccinations, it's not. Our children have to be vaccinated against a variety of diseases to attend public school. I w in the US Army, and we were vaccinated whether we wanted to be or not This is nowhere near what was happening under the Third Reich, and is not even a slippery slope to such.I'm a Canuck, and I cannot imagine how your army treats its members...but...
This is where we disagree. The slope is very slippery, indeed! I have never had to prove that I was vaccinated in public school just to go to the movies! Let's not even mention the fact that, when I was in public school, 'going to the movies' cost only 50 cents! Nowadays, bring 50
bux! (different topic)
It's simply a requirement thatYou're not wrong. There's nothing wrong with being pro-active.
citizens take personal responsibility for the health of the general public. There's nothing wrong with that.
We have signs down here that are pretty much ubiquitous at fast-food restaurants: "No shoes, no shirt, no service." That means we don't wa diners having to put up with seeing anyone's stanky feet or pits whil they're eating.Are faces now 'stanky'? According to our new world, faces are worse than pits or feet!
We also have various laws against public nudity, toPretty sure nudity laws were meant to protect some people from acting
protect our sensitive eyes more than anything, let alone our respirat systems. And yet, those aren't Nazism as well?
like idiots. I know, because I've been to a nudie-bar, and got tossed
out!
Like many others, you're still not seeing my point...
Can you remember, ever in your life, when you had to prove yourself,
just to buy a burger? To watch a movie?
My proof is in my continued existence. Don't ask me for more.
Once you sign up, you're government property. Hence the name, "GI."
The movies could reliably assume that since school-age children were required to go to school, and schools required attendees to be
vaccinated, school-age children were vaccinated. Plus, vaccines were a
lot more accepted when I was a kid.
We've also not had a pandemic of this severity in a long time.
Maybe the vaccination requirements are likewise meant to protect some people from acting like idiots. Just sayin'.
Like many others, you're still not seeing my point...
Perhaps your point is not what you think it is.
Can you remember, ever in your life, when you had to prove yourself, just to buy a burger? To watch a movie?
Yep. In basic training, I was required to announce my serial number to
get food. In order to watch a movie (at a theater), I'm required to provide proof that I have paid my entry fee. No ticket, no movie.
Once you sign up, you're government property. Hence the name, "GI."Pretty sure that means "General Infantry", but what do I know? \(o_O)/
The movies could reliably assume that since school-age children were required to go to school, and schools required attendees to be vaccinated, school-age children were vaccinated. Plus, vaccines were lot more accepted when I was a kid.What does that have to do with the price of tea in China, let alone the price of movies in America?
We've also not had a pandemic of this severity in a long time.You are very correct there. The last time we had a problem like this, it was called 'The Black Plague'...
Maybe the vaccination requirements are likewise meant to protect some people from acting like idiots. Just sayin'.Maybe idiots aren't as stupid as you think? Just sayin'.
Perhaps you're still not seeing it...?Like many others, you're still not seeing my point...Perhaps your point is not what you think it is.
I'm a civilian! (@_@)Can you remember, ever in your life, when you had to prove yours just to buy a burger? To watch a movie?Yep. In basic training, I was required to announce my serial number t get food. In order to watch a movie (at a theater), I'm required to provide proof that I have paid my entry fee. No ticket, no movie.
To be clear, I'd get thrown out of a theatre, if I didn't have a ticket, too.
But...no ticket, no food? I never signed up for that. And pretty soon, I won't be allowed into my local supermarket without a ticket...and I
cannot afford the ticket...
"Government Issue."
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China, let alone t price of movies in America?
That's why movie theaters didn't require vaccination records.
That was in Europe. The last in the US was the Flu pandemic of 1918. (To which, incidentally, Trump attributed the end of WWII, while we're on the subject of Nazism. Yes, I am fully aware that WWII ended in 1945.)
Maybe idiots aren't as stupid as you think? Just sayin'.
Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Or is already telling.
It's somewhere between those two, I'm sure.Perhaps you're still not seeing it...?Like many others, you're still not seeing my point...Perhaps your point is not what you think it is.
I'm a civilian! (@_@)Can you remember, ever in your life, when you had to prove just to buy a burger? To watch a movie?Yep. In basic training, I was required to announce my serial num get food. In order to watch a movie (at a theater), I'm required provide proof that I have paid my entry fee. No ticket, no movie
You asked about me.
But...no ticket, no food? I never signed up for that. And pretty soon won't be allowed into my local supermarket without a ticket...and I cannot afford the ticket...
You can't afford a vaccination?
"Government Issue."Okay, you got me there...I'm sure you generic idiots called it that... <3
They do now! (o_O)What does that have to do with the price of tea in China, let al price of movies in America?That's why movie theaters didn't require vaccination records.
That was in Europe. The last in the US was the Flu pandemic of 1918. which, incidentally, Trump attributed the end of WWII, while we're on subject of Nazism. Yes, I am fully aware that WWII ended in 1945.)You had to mention the crown clown, didn't you? You were correct, until you said that...
Definitely. But I'm also not seeing YOUR point...It's somewhere between those two, I'm sure.Perhaps you're still not seeing it...?Like many others, you're still not seeing my point...Perhaps your point is not what you think it is.
Not exactly. You're not a civvy. And you never will be. Your buckYou asked about me.I'm a civilian! (@_@)Can you remember, ever in your life, when you had to p just to buy a burger? To watch a movie?Yep. In basic training, I was required to announce my seria get food. In order to watch a movie (at a theater), I'm req provide proof that I have paid my entry fee. No ticket, no
clearly says "In GOVERNMENT we trust"!
You can't afford a vaccination?Vaccinations are free. This new passport is not...and, NO! I can't even afford to pay my internet bill, this month!
To be clear, I am a Canuck. Not a Texan. Things are very different here. Which is why I was so surprised when I saw you talking about Quebec!
On 01-09-22 23:16, Shaun Buzza <=-
spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Vaccinations <=-
We've also not had a pandemic of this severity in a long time.
You are very correct there. The last time we had a problem like this,
it was called 'The Black Plague'...
"Government Issue."Okay, you got me there...I'm sure you generic idiots called it that..
It's the origin of "G.I. Joe."
That's why movie theaters didn't require vaccination records.They do now! (o_O)
But they didn't back then.
You had to mention the crown clown, didn't you? You were correct, unt you said that...
Heh. Trump's a very... special... person.
Definitely. But I'm also not seeing YOUR point...It's somewhere between those two, I'm sure.Perhaps you're still not seeing it...?Like many others, you're still not seeing my poinPerhaps your point is not what you think it is.
My point is that there's nothing novel about this vaccine, nothing reminiscent of Nazi Germany. You have at least three vaccines to choose from, and at least two different vaccine technologies.
The one time I was offended was when President Clinton floated the idea
of the Clipper Chip. I'm still pretty sure that I would not support such
a thing today.
You can't afford a vaccination?Vaccinations are free. This new passport is not...and, NO! I can't ev afford to pay my internet bill, this month!
How much does the "passport" cost?
I try to stay on top of world news, as well as national, state, and
local. Texans are also a very conservative bunch, generally speaking.
This isn't 'back then' anymore! Too many people with too much power are too freaked out!But they didn't back then.That's why movie theaters didn't require vaccination recordThey do now! (o_O)
My point is that there's nothing novel about this vaccine, nothing reminiscent of Nazi Germany. You have at least three vaccines to choo from, and at least two different vaccine technologies.And that's why you're missing my point! I am NOT anti-vax! I am anti-passport!
The one time I was offended was when President Clinton floated the id of the Clipper Chip. I'm still pretty sure that I would not support s a thing today.Yet you still don't understand why I refuse to buy a 'vaccine passport'?
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...How much does the "passport" cost?You can't afford a vaccination?Vaccinations are free. This new passport is not...and, NO! I can afford to pay my internet bill, this month!
I try to stay on top of world news, as well as national, state, and local. Texans are also a very conservative bunch, generally speaking.Reading the news about my world does not put you in my place. The same
way I simply could not understand your storm woes, you cannot understand mine.
However, I cannot thank my God enough, that we're both here to debate these issues!
Oh, yes, that sounds quite familiar. Here in Texas we're not allowed drive a vehicle, board a commercial flight, buy alcohol, or even vote without showing our government-issued papers.Not familiar enough. Otherwise, you'd understand my 'Nazi' reference.
You may have forgotten about the last world war, but some of us still remember what we were fighting against. And yet, here it comes again!
Although Quebec has a COVID vaccination rate of 78%, higher than any US state, the number of first-dose appointments quadrupled from last Thursday to Friday, from 1,500 to 6,000. Why, you might ask?
On Thursday, the province began requiring proof of vaccination to enter state-run alcohol and marijuana stores.
There's not a legal pot market here in Texas, but we can have alcohol delivered straight to our door.
This is why I called it a 'vaccine passport'. Because, unless you can prove to a guard that you have the vaccine, you're not allowed to go anywhere, or do
anything. Sound familiar? (o_O)
You literally cannot understand the situation here. You're closer to Mexico than Canada. It goes both ways...I couldn't understand why you guys were complaining about that winter storm... X-D
Not in the form of vaccinations, it's not. Our children have to be vaccinated against a variety of diseases to attend public school.
You can't afford a vaccination?Vaccinations are free. This new passport is not...and, NO! I can't e
afford to pay my internet bill, this month!
How much does the "passport" cost?
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...
Not familiar enough. Otherwise, you'd understand my 'Nazi' reference. You may have forgotten about the last world war, but some of us still remember what we were fighting against. And yet, here it comes again!
Speaking of WWII, certain food items here in the US were rationed during the war. People did indeed have to "prove themselves" in order to buy
certain groceries. I don't think having to "prove oneself" is what we were fighting against...
Although Quebec has a COVID vaccination rate of 78%, higher than any US state, the number of first-dose appointments quadrupled from last Thursd Friday, from 1,500 to 6,000. Why, you might ask?They'd better hope they take Moderna shots. Everyone I know who has been vaxed + boosted, and who has contracted Omicron COVID, was a Pfizer recepient.
On Thursday, the province began requiring proof of vaccination to enter state-run alcohol and marijuana stores.
There's not a legal pot market here in Texas, but we can have alcohol delivered straight to our door.Apparently we can here now, too. I was a little suprised by that, but there is a liquor store local chain that makes deliveries, and I have
seen ads for a grub-hub like service that also does the same.
This is why I called it a 'vaccine passport'. Because, unless you can pr to a guard that you have the vaccine, you're not allowed to go anywhere, doVery. Thing is, people who are vaccinated in the US are still getting sick with Omicron. If you are vaxed and test positive, there are places now that do not require you not to come into work or not to attend
anything. Sound familiar? (o_O)
class. But no one has ever said they are not contagious.
Not in the form of vaccinations, it's not. Our children have to be vacci against a variety of diseases to attend public school.Are you sure about that? I know plenty of parents who claim they quit getting/never got their kids vaxxed because the usually-MMR-but-sometimes-others vaxes "cause autism" or some other mumbo-jumbo. Their kids go to public schools. Now, unless they are
lying about their kids not being vaxxed (why would they?) they
apparently can do that somehow here.
Ironically, at least one of these parents, who won't get her kids vaxxed for other diseases, believes every adult should be COVID vaxxed. I have not talked to them lately, so I am wondering if her stance about the
COVID vax changed any now that her kids are old enough to get it, too.
Sounds like another government money grab. If they really want to encourage you to get vaxed, the passport should be free.A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...How much does the "passport" cost?You can't afford a vaccination?Vaccinations are free. This new passport is not...and, NO! I c e
afford to pay my internet bill, this month!
You didn't have to prove who you were, or give up any medicalNot familiar enough. Otherwise, you'd understand my 'Nazi' referenc You may have forgotten about the last world war, but some of us sti remember what we were fighting against. And yet, here it comes agaiSpeaking of WWII, certain food items here in the US were rationed during war. People did indeed have to "prove themselves" in order to buy certain groceries. I don't think having to "prove oneself" is what we we fighting against...
information, so much as you had to prove that you had not already
exceeded your rations in your ration book.
Sounds like another government money grab. If they really want to encourage you to get vaxed, the passport should be free.
On 01-09-22 23:39, Jeff Thiele <=-
spoke to Shaun Buzza about Re: Vaccinations <=-
You can't afford a vaccination?
Vaccinations are free. This new passport is not...and, NO! I can't even afford to pay my internet bill, this month!
How much does the "passport" cost?
On 01-10-22 01:33, Shaun Buzza <=-
spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Vaccinations <=-
And that's why you're missing my point! I am NOT anti-vax! I am anti-passport!
How much does the "passport" cost?
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the
poverty line...
How much does the "passport" cost?Are you talking about a vaccination card that shows your vaccination status (which is free here in the USA) or a Canadian Official passport which allows you to travel to other countries? The later is not free
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...
here (US$80 IIRC) and has nothing to do with access into any offices or facilities in your home country.
And that's why you're missing my point! I am NOT anti-vax! I am anti-passport!
Why -- it is just a piece of paper that shows your vaccination status.
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...
Are you talking about a vaccination card that shows your vaccination status (which is free here in the USA) or a Canadian Official passport which allows you to travel to other countries? The later is not free
here (US$80 IIRC) and has nothing to do with access into any offices or facilities in your home country.
Why -- it is just a piece of paper that shows your vaccination statusYou missed the point entirely. I am against the idea of proving my status just to enter a business.
Clearly, I have not been talking about a travel passport. To be fair, saying the vax-port costs a month's rent was hyperbole. But it is notA month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...Are you talking about a vaccination card that shows your vaccination status (which is free here in the USA) or a Canadian Official passpor which allows you to travel to other countries? The later is not free here (US$80 IIRC) and has nothing to do with access into any offices facilities in your home country.
free here. And I'm getting a little tired of the gov't finding more ways to stick it's hand in my pocket.
And that's why you're missing my point! I am NOT anti-vax! I am
anti-passport!
Why -- it is just a piece of paper that shows your vaccination
status.
You missed the point entirely. I am against the idea of proving my status just to enter a business.
You missed the point entirely. I am against the idea of proving my st just to enter a business.
Are you against having to prove your age to enter a bar or nightclub?
How much does it cost?
do you not get carded to buy alcohol, cigs, medicinal weed, or even to enter a club? same diff, really...
Are you against proper debate? Why are you restricting yourself to just bars and nightclubs, when I'm including a lot more in the wordYou missed the point entirely. I am against the idea of proving just to enter a business.Are you against having to prove your age to enter a bar or nightclub?
'business'? Perhaps because you honestly think age checks are the same thing? I don't believe that for a second.
On 10 Jan 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
There's not a legal pot market here in Texas, but we can have alcohol delivered straight to our door.Apparently we can here now, too. I was a little suprised by that, but there is a liquor store local chain that makes deliveries, and I have seen ads for a grub-hub like service that also does the same.
They also relaxed laws regarding buying alcohol to go, along with a meal for example. We used to not be able to do that.
Very. Thing is, people who are vaccinated in the US are still getting sick with Omicron. If you are vaxed and test positive, there are places now that do not require you not to come into work or not to attend class. But no one has ever said they are not contagious.
The vaccines reduce a person's chances of contracting COVID, and if they do, reduces the severity of the symptoms. They also reduce the chances of spreading the virus. If vaccines are required in the workplace, then everyone should be vaccinated. If someone who is vaccinated returns to a workplace full of vaccinated people, the expected effect is far less than that of a non-vaccinated COVID-positive person going into a non-vaccinated workplace.
It's all about managing risk.
Having registered my daughter for school every year K-12, yes, it is. https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/pdf/6-14-2021-2022-Minimum-Requirem
nt-K-12.pdf
Ironically, at least one of these parents, who won't get her kids vaxxed for other diseases, believes every adult should be COVID vaxxed. I have not talked to them lately, so I am wondering if her stance about the COVID vax changed any now that her kids are old enough to get it, too.
Some people make no sense.
Sounds like another government money grab. If they really want to encourage you to get vaxed, the passport should be free.
Agreed, 100%. I question whether this is actually the case.
You didn't have to prove who you were, or give up any medical information, so much as you had to prove that you had not already exceeded your rations in your ration book.
How did they keep people from getting more than one ration book?
They'd better hope they take Moderna shots. Everyone I know who has been
vaxed + boosted, and who has contracted Omicron COVID, was a Pfizer recepient.
That's an interesting personal observation, but hardly representative of the whole situation.
That's exactly what it is. You'd be surprised how often the gov't here does bs
like this. On the other hand, they also paid me to stay home for the first year (and a bit) of the pandemic...
Which doesn't help me now, with no job and bills to pay...
How much does it cost?More than zero. Less than a billion.
Something else funny (or stupid) that used to happen in my town... during the Summers, they'd have a concert every other Friday night down on the old capitol lawn. Right across from there is a street that they would close off during the concert. People would sit outside restaurants and bars, and eat and drink. If you were at a restaurant table, they could serve you any drink you wanted. In the bars, they could serve you beer that you could take outside, and maybe wine, but you could not take any mixed drinks out to sit outside, *even if* you also had ordered food.
Whether it's one business, many businesses, or all businesses, is just a matter of scale. Do you think that bars and nightclubs should not have to verify age? If it's acceptable in one instance, why not all? I think the more valid question would be, why are you restricting people having to prove something about themselves to to just bars and nightclubs?
Think about the "passports" from the point of view of people that have them. If you want to go to, say, a movie theater, you can reasonably assume that if they require proof of vaccination to enter then everyone inside is vaccinated. That's good for businesses, the economy, and society, because it gets people going out again.
The only people disadvantaged by this rule are the unvaccinated and
those who don't want to disclose their vaccination status. No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated or disclose their vaccination status,
but the people who do are going to find doors closing in their faces
when they indicate that they believe their access to businesses to be
more important than the health and safety of their fellow citizens.
You cannot tell me that a vaxed person, less severe or shorter or not, cannot get another vaxed person sick. If they are sick with COVID, they should have to stay home.
The only reason they are doing it is because places fired people for not being vaxed, and predicably found themselves very short handed. I would rather be around someone who is not sick, vaxed OR not, than be around someone who is sick but is also vaxed. You never know when the next variant is going to break out, so I would rather not catch it from
anyone, vaxed or not.
Having registered my daughter for school every year K-12, yes, it is. https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/pdf/6-14-2021-2022-Minimum-Re nt-K-12.pdfIt used to be here. It either is not any more, or some parents are finding creative ways around it.
Which doesn't help me now, with no job and bills to pay...
I am going to ask a stupid question but I am assuming the job you had before the pandemic no longer exists?
That's not very precise. Is there a reason you don't want to divulge the cost? From what I've seen, you can just go online, enter some personal information, and print out the certificate.
There was some criticism of the program based on it being inaccessible to people who did not have or understand the technology to do this, but I have yet to see any mention of the certificates being inaccessible due to cost.
I don't know. I doubt they had to show an ID every time they used the book, but I bet they needed to show one to get one. Either way, they didn't have to give out any medical info about themselves.You didn't have to prove who you were, or give up any medical information, so much as you had to prove that you had not already exceeded your rations in your ration book.How did they keep people from getting more than one ration book?
They'd better hope they take Moderna shots. Everyone I know who ha beenThat's an interesting personal observation, but hardly representative of whole situation.
vaxed + boosted, and who has contracted Omicron COVID, was a Pfizer recepient.
Do all businesses sell age-restricted products like alcohol? To compare this to the vax-port is the same as comparing an apple to an orange.
In other words, show your papers, or stay out of society completely?
Grow your own food, because you're not allowed to buy any. Not that you have any money, because you're not allowed to have a job. Better not get sick, because you're not allowed to go to the hospital. Not that you
have any health insurance, because you're not allowed into the office to apply.
I am going to ask a stupid question but I am assuming the job you had before the pandemic no longer exists?That's not a stupid question, and you are correct. And before you ask; I live in a small town outside the city, and I had to sell my car more
than a year ago to keep myself afloat. It is problematic to find another job, in my current situation, especially since I can't afford a vax-port.
That's not very precise. Is there a reason you don't want to divulge cost? From what I've seen, you can just go online, enter some persona information, and print out the certificate.Are you Canadian? You will find that different countries are doing different things. Some are gouging their citizens to pay for a program that we don't want to support. I choose not to divulge because it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it is non-zero. Read my choice as refusal, if you wish. That is also irrelevant.
There was some criticism of the program based on it being inaccessibl people who did not have or understand the technology to do this, but have yet to see any mention of the certificates being inaccessible du cost.
No, it's like comparing requiring a driver's license just to drive a car to requiring a driver's license for all of the other things drivers' licenses are used for.
As far as I know, it's only limited to places like theaters and gyms. But sure, just get the certificate. You can even get the certificate if
you're not vaccinated. But then everyone will know that you're not vaccinated. Is that what you're really afraid of?
Provide proof of the cost and I'll happily donate to a GoFundMe.
In a pandemic, vaccination status is not irrelevant. It is an indication of how likely you are to spread the disease to others, and public health is a legitimate concern of society.
I choose not to divulge [the cost of a vax-port] because it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it is non-zero. Read my choice as refusal, if you wish. That is also irrelevant.
Are you Canadian? You will find that different countries are doing different things. Some are gouging their citizens to pay for a program that we don't want to support. I choose not to divulge because it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it is non-zero. Read my choice as refusal, if you wish. That is also irrelevant.
No, it's like comparing requiring a driver's license just to drive a to requiring a driver's license for all of the other things drivers' licenses are used for.Um, besides serving as identification, what else is a DRIVER's license
use for but proof that you know how to drive? And, once again, why
should I be required to identify myself any time I want to interact with society?
As far as I know, it's only limited to places like theaters and gyms. sure, just get the certificate. You can even get the certificate if you're not vaccinated. But then everyone will know that you're not vaccinated. Is that what you're really afraid of?Don't mistake stubbornness for fear. Not that being stubborn is any better. :)
If anything, I'm afraid of the slippery slope that we're on. Being required to 'show papers' everywhere you go sounds too much like the reason(s) we fought two world wars.
Provide proof of the cost and I'll happily donate to a GoFundMe.Cost of living? (o_O)
I appreciate the offer, but I will manage to take care of myself. Thanks anyway.
In a pandemic, vaccination status is not irrelevant. It is an indicat of how likely you are to spread the disease to others, and public hea is a legitimate concern of society.Are you intentionally missing my point here? Getting the shot is definitely relevant. Proving you have is not. And paying to prove it is just an insult.
I choose not to divulge [the cost of a vax-port] because it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it is non-zero. Read my ch as refusal, if you wish. That is also irrelevant.
I am not Canadian, but I do have family in Ontario and I just asked them how much it costs. They said that it costs nothing. It's a provincial government mandate and there is no charge.
It seems that you haven't been entirely honest with us throughout this conversation...
I am not Canadian, but I do have family in Ontario and I just asked t how much it costs. They said that it costs nothing. It's a provincial government mandate and there is no charge.Incorrect. The vax-port in Ontario is a phone app. Therefore the cost is the price of a cell phone.
It seems that you haven't been entirely honest with us throughout thi conversation...Fair enough. I suggested more than once that the gov't was charging directly for it. But to say it's free is also dishonest.
I am not Canadian, but I do have family in Ontario and I just asked t how much it costs. They said that it costs nothing. It's a provincial government mandate and there is no charge.Incorrect. The vax-port in Ontario is a phone app. Therefore the cost is the price of a cell phone.
Exactly. It's a license to drive, but is also used to identify oneself. Those would seem to be apples and oranges but are not. Likewise,
requiring proof of age to enter a business and requiring proof of vaccination to enter a business are not apples and oranges.
That's not the reason we fought two world wars. It was a security measure implemented by a country at war. During the American Civil War, property rights and travel were restricted by both sides. In Canada, the War Measures Act was invoked in both World Wars. The Act stated in part:<snip all pointless tedium>
Clearly this was not an invention of the Nazis.
Do you know what else Nazis did? They wore pants. How far are we down *that* slippery slope?
Provide proof of the cost and I'll happily donate to a GoFundMe.Cost of living? (o_O)
I appreciate the offer, but I will manage to take care of myself. Tha anyway.
If, as you stated, you need this certificate to get a job, helping to cover the cost of a certificate would go a long way to helping with the cost of living, no?
Except that the certificate doesn't cost anything.
Are you intentionally missing my point here? Getting the shot is definitely relevant. Proving you have is not. And paying to prove it just an insult.
Proving that you've been vaccinated in a society in which a pandemic has killed tens of thousands of people within the space of a couple of years seems pretty relevant to me.
You don't have to pay for it. It's free.
Exactly. It's a license to drive, but is also used to identify onesel Those would seem to be apples and oranges but are not. Likewise, requiring proof of age to enter a business and requiring proof of vaccination to enter a business are not apples and oranges.Once again, you are not required to prove your age anywhere where age-restricted products are not sold, *because selling to minors is a crime*! You are not required to prove your age to go to any generic business. Remind me how this is the same as a vax-port?
When you say these are the same concept, you are also saying that it is illegal to conduct *ANY* business with a person who cannot prove they
got a shot. That's not a society I want to live in, anyway.
By "pointless tedium," I presume you mean "evidence that implementing enhanced security measures during wartime was not unique to the Nazis."That's not the reason we fought two world wars. It was a security mea implemented by a country at war. During the American Civil War, prope rights and travel were restricted by both sides. In Canada, the War Measures Act was invoked in both World Wars. The Act stated in part:<snip all pointless tedium>
So, avoiding my arguments is no longer enough? Time to belittle them too? Clearly you were the A-student in Debate class, weren't you?
I'm not the one who brought up Nazis. I simply made mention of wars that were started as a result of one group of people mistreating another because they were different. Funny how you went straight to them, though...
And here we are again, mistreating people over whether they can prove they're the same as a group of people. Sure, nobody has brought out the gas chambers yet, but people have been arrested simply for refusing to identify themself. It's not *that* big a leap to the point where anyone can be arrested anywhere for refusing...
^^^^Although Quebec has a COVID vaccination rate of 78%, higher than any state, the number of first-dose appointments quadrupled from last Thursday to Friday, from 1,500 to 6,000. Why, you might ask?Um, that's not really a surprise. Those who like to drink or smoke don't like to fill out surveys. I can say this with authority, because I like
On Thursday, the province began requiring proof of vaccination to ent state-run alcohol and marijuana stores.
to drink AND smoke! ;)
If Ontario imposes the same restrictions (may God never allow this!), you're going to see the same thing here!
I'd rather sober up than submit to Nazi-ism!
Except it isn't free.Are you intentionally missing my point here? Getting the shot is definitely relevant. Proving you have is not. And paying to prov just an insult.Proving that you've been vaccinated in a society in which a pandemic killed tens of thousands of people within the space of a couple of ye seems pretty relevant to me.
You don't have to pay for it. It's free.
As I stated several messages ago, it is clear that neither of us is
going to agree on who's the more foolish between us. It's you, by the
way. ;)
You go ahead and support a system that is invading our civil liberties. I've already bought the seeds for my farm. We'll see in a few years
which of us was right. I promise I won't say 'I told you so', mostly because I probably won't be allowed online by then, unless I can prove I am virus-free.
How much does it cost?
How much does it cost?Things may be different where Shaun is but there is no passport here.
I have a BC Vaccine card with my name and vaccine status with a QR code that can be scanned. I went to a movie recently and had to show it and
my ID.
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the poverty line...Sounds like another government money grab. If they really want to encourage you to get vaxed, the passport should be free.
I don't know. I doubt they had to show an ID every time they used the book, but I bet they needed to show one to get one. Either way, they didn't have to give out any medical info about themselves.
Things may be different where Shaun is but there is no passport here.
I have a BC Vaccine card with my name and vaccine status with a QR code
that can be scanned. I went to a movie recently and had to show it and
my ID.
That sounds similar to the situation Shaun is describing. There is no such system here.
That sounds similar to the situation Shaun is describing. There is no su system here.I have not had to pay for anthing covid or vaccine related.
This stuff does require some steps to take and that can be a pain in the behind, but I have not had to pay anything.
On 01-11-22 14:08, Shaun Buzza <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Passport <=-
And that's why you're missing my point! I am NOT anti-vax! I am anti-passport!
Why -- it is just a piece of paper that shows your vaccination status.
You missed the point entirely. I am against the idea of proving my
status just to enter a business.
On 01-11-22 17:01, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Vaccinations <=-
You cannot tell me that a vaxed person, less severe or shorter or not, cannot get another vaxed person sick.
If they are sick with COVID,
they should have to stay home.
The only reason they are doing it is because places fired people for
not being vaxed, and predicably found themselves very short handed. I would rather be around someone who is not sick, vaxed OR not, than be around someone who is sick but is also vaxed. You never know when the next variant is going to break out, so I would rather not catch it from anyone, vaxed or not.
do you not get carded to buy alcohol, cigs, medicinal weed, or even to
enter a club? same diff, really...
Um...no...I'm no longer a young man. Do you?
Not the same, at all! Does a movie theater sell alcohol, cigs, or
weed?
Shaun Buzza wrote to Dale Shipp <=-
You missed the point entirely. I am against the idea of proving my
status just to enter a business.
Shaun Buzza wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-
Are you against proper debate?
Not the same, at all! Does a movie theater sell alcohol, cigs, or weed?some do... they are also generally showing adult movies, as well ;)
Are you against proper debate?Lefties like Jeff cannot debate.
In a debate people make arguments and provide facts. Lefties cannot do either. They just push their false Narratives and when you show them
that their Narratives are false, they call you names.
I live in Travis County which, by virtue of containing Austin is quite liberal, but just north of us is Williamson County which is very conservative. Up until a few years ago, they had a strange law that restaurants couldn't serve alcohol, but private clubs could. So if you went into a restaurant in Williamson County and tried to order alcohol, they'd ask to see your membership card for their private club. If you didn't have one, they'd bring you one to fill out, for free, and then you could order alcohol. All just to satisfy that law.
You cannot tell me that a vaxed person, less severe or shorter or not, cannot get another vaxed person sick. If they are sick with COVID, they should have to stay home.
Vaccinated people are much less likely to contract COVID, spread COVID, and suffer severe health problems from COVID. Each of those things is possible, but much less likely than with unvaccinated people. As I said, it's about managing risk.
The only reason they are doing it is because places fired people for not being vaxed, and predicably found themselves very short handed. I would rather be around someone who is not sick, vaxed OR not, than be around someone who is sick but is also vaxed. You never know when the next variant is going to break out, so I would rather not catch it from anyone, vaxed or not.
So would I, but how are we to know who is vaccinated and who isn't, and who is infected and who isn't? Previously people were complaining about the shuttering of businesses; now we're trying to open things back up with managed risk and people are still complaining.
How would you determine if a co-worker was spreading COVID or not?
Having registered my daughter for school every year K-12, yes, it is. https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/pdf/6-14-2021-2022-Minimum-RIt used to be here. It either is not any more, or some parents are finding creative ways around it.
nt-K-12.pdf
It's far too easy to claim a religious exemption without having to prove anything.
A month's rent, for me. I am definitely on the wrong side of the povertSounds like another government money grab. If they really want to encourage you to get vaxed, the passport should be free.
line...
The enhanced vaccination certificate is free.
I don't know. I doubt they had to show an ID every time they used the book, but I bet they needed to show one to get one. Either way, they didn't have to give out any medical info about themselves.
Here in Texas, drivers' licenses do contain medical information, or information from which medical information can be inferred. For example, the following restrictions:
A. With corrective lenses
C. Daytime driving only
S. Outside rearview mirror or hearing aid
U. Applicable prosthetic devices
V. Medical variance documents required
Y. Valid Texas vision or limb waiver required
P8. With telescopic lens (???)
P39. Ignition interlock required
If they are sick with COVID,
they should have to stay home.
I go a step further -- if they have been exposed to COVID, they should
stay at home for at least seven days. If they test negative at that
time, they can go out.
do you not get carded to buy alcohol, cigs, medicinal weed, or even to enter a club? same diff, really...
Um...no...I'm no longer a young man. Do you?
In other words, show your papers, or stay out of society completely?
If you want to take advantage of the things society has to offer, you have to follow society's rules.
Not the same, at all! Does a movie theater sell alcohol, cigs, or
weed?
some do... they are also generally showing adult movies, as well ;)
But we are talking about people who are vaccinated AND have tested positive, and may even have symptoms of, COVID. You are not managingYou cannot tell me that a vaxed person, less severe or shorter or n cannot get another vaxed person sick. If they are sick with COVID, should have to stay home.Vaccinated people are much less likely to contract COVID, spread COVID, suffer severe health problems from COVID. Each of those things is possib but much less likely than with unvaccinated people. As I said, it's abou managing risk.
risk if you are allowing COVID-positive people, vaxed or not, to report back to work. They have it. Their personal likelihood of contracting
it has gone from "much less likely" to 100%.
If you have it, you can spread it.
My employer knows who is vaxed and who is not. Employers who have fired unvaxed employees know who is vaxed and who is not because they fired all of the "who is not" and vaccinated employees are all that are left.The only reason they are doing it is because places fired people fo being vaxed, and predicably found themselves very short handed. I rather be around someone who is not sick, vaxed OR not, than be aro someone who is sick but is also vaxed. You never know when the nex variant is going to break out, so I would rather not catch it from anyone, vaxed or not.So would I, but how are we to know who is vaccinated and who isn't, and is infected and who isn't? Previously people were complaining about the shuttering of businesses; now we're trying to open things back up with managed risk and people are still complaining.
If they are telling people it is ok to come into work even if you test positive, then you as an employee likely won't know if they are infected or not because they will be at work just like everyone else instead of
at home where they belong.
How would you determine if a co-worker was spreading COVID or not?If they are positive, and have symptoms, then they are sick and can
spread it. If they are not positive, and have symptoms, they can spread whatever it is they do have, whether it is COVID or something else.
Some of the people I know who claim not to get their kids vaccindated are religious, while others are very much not. It would be ironic, them normally being outwardly atheists, for them to go against their (lackIt's far too easy to claim a religious exemption without having to prove anything.Having registered my daughter for school every year K-12, yes, it https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/pdf/6-14-2021-2022-Min nt-K-12.pdfIt used to be here. It either is not any more, or some parents are finding creative ways around it.
of?) beliefs and claim a religious exemption.
I am sure you are right and that is how they are doing it, though.
If there are enough people claiming the exemption and not getting their kids vaccinated for anything, you really cannot assume that kids (and now adults) are vaccinated against anything, nor could you prior to COVID.
That is now. Do you have to have a ration book in TX today?I don't know. I doubt they had to show an ID every time they used book, but I bet they needed to show one to get one. Either way, th didn't have to give out any medical info about themselves.Here in Texas, drivers' licenses do contain medical information, or information from which medical information can be inferred. For example, following restrictions:
A. With corrective lenses
C. Daytime driving only
S. Outside rearview mirror or hearing aid
U. Applicable prosthetic devices
V. Medical variance documents required
Y. Valid Texas vision or limb waiver required
P8. With telescopic lens (???)
P39. Ignition interlock required
He does not want to show a government-issued vax passport to prove he is vaccinated so that he can enter a grocery store (example).In other words, show your papers, or stay out of society completelyIf you want to take advantage of the things society has to offer, you ha follow society's rules.
You do not want to have to show a government-issued picture ID in order
to prove you are who you say you are in order to vote.
What is the difference? One of your objections is that it is difficult for minorities/disenfranchised persons to obtain a government-issued picture ID. Wouldn't that also hold true of a government-issued "vaccination ID"? In both his and Alan's cases, they sound like
something you have to get from sometime/where other than when/where you were vaccinated.
Sorry, I don't see a difference. Your quote, "if you want to take advantage of the things that society has to offer, you have to follow society's rules," should apply to both.
On 01-12-22 07:06, Mark Lewis <=-
spoke to Shaun Buzza about Passport <=-
do you not get carded to buy alcohol, cigs, medicinal weed, or even to
enter a club? same diff, really...
Um...no...I'm no longer a young man. Do you?
On 01-12-22 07:50, Ron Lauzon <=-
spoke to Shaun Buzza about Re: Passport <=-
Shaun Buzza wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-
Are you against proper debate?
Lefties like Jeff cannot debate.
In a debate people make arguments and provide facts.
Lefties cannot do either.
They just push their false Narratives and when you show them that
their Narratives are false, they call you names.
On 01-12-22 14:30, Mike Powell <=-
spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Vaccinations <=-
If you have it [Covid], you can spread it.
If they are telling people it is ok to come into work even if you test positive, then you as an employee likely won't know if they are
infected or not because they will be at work just like everyone else instead of at home where they belong.
If they are positive, and have symptoms, then they are sick and can
spread it.
My employer knows who is vaxed and who is not. Employers who have fired unvaxed employees know who is vaxed and who is not because they fired all
of the "who is not" and vaccinated employees are all that are left.
How do they know this? My boss knows I've been vaccinated, but only because I volunteered that info in casual conversation. MY bigger "work," as in HR, etc., has never asked and I've never volunteered that information to them (although I would if asked).
I suppose that to comply with the new mandate they would need to know, but interestingly I have not seen any attempts to enforce such a thing at my workplace. HR does definitely and strongly suggest that people get vaccinated, but has not attempted to gather that information in any way.
That is now. Do you have to have a ration book in TX today?
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that this information was available dring WWII. I have no idea whether the restriction codes were in use then or not.
The point I was trying to make is that every time I give someone my driver's license, they are privy to some medical information about me.
If they are telling people it is ok to come into work even if you test positive, then you as an employee likely won't know if they are
infected or not because they will be at work just like everyone else instead of at home where they belong.
Telling people to come to work after they test positive is firmly
against public health policy. They should be quarantined until they
test negative.
If they are positive, and have symptoms, then they are sick and can spread it.
Does not matter if they have symptoms -- if they are infected then they
can spread it.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that this information was available dring I have no idea whether the restriction codes were in use then or not. The point I was trying to make is that every time I give someone my driv license, they are privy to some medical information about me.Especially if they scan the multi-dimensional barcode on the back.
I suppose that to comply with the new mandate they would need to know, b interestingly I have not seen any attempts to enforce such a thing at my workplace. HR does definitely and strongly suggest that people get vaccinated, but has not attempted to gather that information in any way.No enforcement that I am aware of where I work, either, but they right away attempted to gather the info. :)
know, bI suppose that to comply with the new mandate they would need to
at myinterestingly I have not seen any attempts to enforce such a thing
way.workplace. HR does definitely and strongly suggest that people get
vaccinated, but has not attempted to gather that information in any
No enforcement that I am aware of where I work, either, but theyright
away attempted to gather the info. :)
I would guess that once the mandate takes effect, we'll be requested to submit proof of our vaccination.
It need not be mandatory,
Sorry, I don't see a difference. Your quote, "if you want to take advantage of the things that society has to offer, you have to follow society's rules," should apply to both.
Or other arrangements should be made, such as grocery pickup or deliveries, and mail-in or drive-through voting.
Only if the voters can prove who they are. And there is the rub. While there are ways around the vax passport, the ways you suggest to make voting easier are also ways that politicians, throughout most ofSorry, I don't see a difference. Your quote, "if you want to take advantage of the things that society has to offer, you have to fol society's rules," should apply to both.Or other arrangements should be made, such as grocery pickup or deliver and mail-in or drive-through voting.
America's history, have taken advantage of.
Now I know you and Alan and others want us all to believe that voter
fraud is all a part of "the big lie" and has rarely happened in the US, but that is not true. Many of us paid attention in US History. We
don't want to return to the times when political machines, like New
York's Tammany Hall or the various Chicago machines (Republican and, later, Democrat) were able to manufacture votes by taking advantage of loose voting rules and usually getting away with it.
My own state, and some of the surrounding ones, have a history of ballot stuffing and intentionally keeping the dead on the roles (for what purpose?).
Unsecured paper balloting was largely done away with and, for the most part, it has been very difficult for politicians and political groups to achieve the same success as the political machines of our
not-too-distant past. Proving the person voting is indeed a valid, registered voter.
I can understand why one of us would want to return to those days of less secure balloting (and quickly!) as it often, but not always, seemed to favor one side heavily over the other.
I would guess that once the mandate takes effect, we'll be requested submit proof of our vaccination.Not to worry. Trump's USSC tore it up. 6-3 vote.
but that is not true. Many of us paid attention in US History. We don't want to return to the times when political machines, like New York's Tammany Hall or the various Chicago machines (Republican and, later, Democrat) were able to manufacture votes by taking advantage of loose voting rules and usually getting away with it.
There is no evidence of widespread election fraud.
My state, and some of those to the east of us, has a long history of passing restrictive voting laws in order to keep certain segments of the population from voting.
Only if you ignore history. There has been plenty of fraud over the history of our country. Are you not familiar at all with the Tammanybut that is not true. Many of us paid attention in US History. We don't want to return to the times when political machines, like New York's Tammany Hall or the various Chicago machines (Republican and later, Democrat) were able to manufacture votes by taking advantage loose voting rules and usually getting away with it.There is no evidence of widespread election fraud.
Hall bunch, or any of the Chicago political machines?
My state, and some of those to the east of us, has a long history of pas restrictive voting laws in order to keep certain segments of the populat from voting.Here, they would mark ballots in advance and pay people to go in with a marked one and come out with a new blank one. We've passed various "restrictive" laws over the years that prevent these things from happening.
There is a way around your problems. Whenever someone mentions things
like a requirement for Voter ID, others cry foul and claim it is to keep people from voting because getting an ID is "difficult."
If that is the case, then why are people like you not trying to make it easier for these ID-less folks to get IDs? There used to be round-ups in supposedly disenfranchised areas to get folks registered to vote, and
take them to vote, so why not take them someplace and get them a valid
ID while they are at it?
Yeah, there'd be some folks who would prove they are like you say they
are and find some way to be opposed to that. Most of us rational folks would not oppose helping people out that way.
I suspect it is because helping those folks vote is not really the point. If politicians actually cared whether or not these people could vote, it would be.
On 01-15-22 12:35, Jeff Thiele <=-
spoke to Mike Powell about Re: Passport <=-
I received my voter registration card in the mail the other day. I honestly don't know why they continue sending them out, as they're worthless.
Only if you ignore history. There has been plenty of fraud over the history of our country. Are you not familiar at all with the Tammany Hall bunch, or any of the Chicago political machines?
Voting laws have changed since then. However, Republicans are using allegations of election fraud in the 2020 election to continue changing the rules, but no evidence whatsoever exists to substantiate those allegations.
My state, and some of those to the east of us, has a long history of paHere, they would mark ballots in advance and pay people to go in with a marked one and come out with a new blank one. We've passed various "restrictive" laws over the years that prevent these things from happening.
restrictive voting laws in order to keep certain segments of the popula
from voting.
And they don't do that anymore, correct? They didn't do it in 2020, did they?
There is a way around your problems. Whenever someone mentions things like a requirement for Voter ID, others cry foul and claim it is to keep people from voting because getting an ID is "difficult."
If that is the case, then why are people like you not trying to make it easier for these ID-less folks to get IDs? There used to be round-ups in
supposedly disenfranchised areas to get folks registered to vote, and take them to vote, so why not take them someplace and get them a valid ID while they are at it?
Yeah, there'd be some folks who would prove they are like you say they are and find some way to be opposed to that. Most of us rational folks would not oppose helping people out that way.
That is possible, but why should strangers have to help people overcome hurdles that the government has placed to impede them?
I suspect it is because helping those folks vote is not really the point.
If politicians actually cared whether or not these people could vote, it would be.
Helping is one thing, intentionally impeding is quite another.
I received my voter registration card in the mail the other day. I honestly don't know why they continue sending them out, as they're worthless.I have been voting in my state for more than 50 years, and have never
been asked to show a voter registration card.
That might be true. However, a lot of the things that Democrats are countering with would undo some of those previous changes that were enacted because of the political machines of the (in some cases, not so distant) past.Only if you ignore history. There has been plenty of fraud over th history of our country. Are you not familiar at all with the Tamma Hall bunch, or any of the Chicago political machines?Voting laws have changed since then. However, Republicans are using allegations of election fraud in the 2020 election to continue changing rules, but no evidence whatsoever exists to substantiate those allegatio
Why don't they propose something more constructive?
If the voting laws are changed to make them more lax, they could again do so.And they don't do that anymore, correct? They didn't do it in 2020, didMy state, and some of those to the east of us, has a long history paHere, they would mark ballots in advance and pay people to go in wi marked one and come out with a new blank one. We've passed various "restrictive" laws over the years that prevent these things from happening.
restrictive voting laws in order to keep certain segments of the popula
from voting.
Members of organizations currently help strangers get registered, and to get to polling locations. At least, they do here.There is a way around your problems. Whenever someone mentions thin like a requirement for Voter ID, others cry foul and claim it is to people from voting because getting an ID is "difficult."That is possible, but why should strangers have to help people overcome hurdles that the government has placed to impede them?
If that is the case, then why are people like you not trying to mak easier for these ID-less folks to get IDs? There used to be round- in
supposedly disenfranchised areas to get folks registered to vote, a take them to vote, so why not take them someplace and get them a va ID while they are at it?
Yeah, there'd be some folks who would prove they are like you say t are and find some way to be opposed to that. Most of us rational f would not oppose helping people out that way.
Wouldn't your belief that the government is placing hurdles motivate you to assist?
If the Democrats would answer with something constructive, those impediments might not exist. Instead, their answers are ones that moveI suspect it is because helping those folks vote is not really the point.Helping is one thing, intentionally impeding is quite another.
If politicians actually cared whether or not these people could vot would be.
in the complete opposite direction, do nothing to help the "disenfranchised," and are ones they know most non-Democrats would not agree with.
My state, and some of those to the east of us, has a long history of pas restrictive voting laws in order to keep certain segments of the populat from voting.Here, they would mark ballots in advance and pay people to go in with a marked one and come out with a new blank one. We've passed various "restrictive" laws over the years that prevent these things from happening.
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