+-
| If there are, they are neither as vocal nor as organized about it as is the
| far-right portion of the GOP base, by far.
|
| In general, Democrat policy proposals promote inclusivity and tolerance,
| unlike the anti-LBGTQ, evangelically-tinged offerings that Republican
| legislators seem so prone to propose. Equality is not racism. Like it or not, | bigotry is far more of a conservative value than a progressive one, and the
| GOP is full of conservatives.
|
| There's no "both-sidesing" racism.
+-[JT=>MP]

So since there is no both-sidesing racism, does that mean that Joe Biden
was a Republican back when he was shown holding Byrd's hand up in the air,
or when he claimed he didn't want his kids being bussed, or when he claimed that an obviously black person was "not black" if he was not voting for him?

I don't ever remember Joe being a Republican. Also don't ever remember him being a conservative.

100% positive that racism doesn't know political bounds.

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On 24 Feb 2022, MIKE POWELL said the following...

| There's no "both-sidesing" racism.
So since there is no both-sidesing racism, does that mean that Joe Biden was a Republican back when he was shown holding Byrd's hand up in the
air, or when he claimed he didn't want his kids being bussed, or when he claimed that an obviously black person was "not black" if he was not voting for him?
I don't ever remember Joe being a Republican. Also don't ever remember him being a conservative.

According to Byrd in 1993, "The greatest mistake I ever made was joining
the Ku Klux Klan. And I’ve said that many times. But one cannot erase
what he has done. He can only change his ways and his thoughts. That was an albatross around my neck that I will always wear. You will read it in my obituary that I was a member of the Ku Klux Klan."

Byrd's insistence that he was no longer a member of the KKK dates back to
1952, when the defining characteristics of the two parties were much
different.

Biden has said that he did not oppose busing, only busing mandated by the federal government (a stance which should sound quite familiar in this day and age of COVID vaccinations).

Biden has apologozed for his "you ain't black" comment and has said that he should not have been so cavalier. However, determining which party better serves the black community is pretty much a no-brainer. Today, right now, racist extremists consider the GOP to be their ideological home.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Hello Jeff,

| There's no "both-sidesing" racism.
So since there is no both-sidesing racism, does that mean that Joe

Biden

was a Republican back when he was shown holding Byrd's hand up in the
air, or when he claimed he didn't want his kids being bussed, or when

he

claimed that an obviously black person was "not black" if he was not
voting for him?
I don't ever remember Joe being a Republican. Also don't ever

remember

him being a conservative.

According to Byrd in 1993, "The greatest mistake I ever made was joining the Ku Klux Klan.

David Duke has never apologized for joining the Ku Klux Klan.
David Duke has also never apologized for joining the Republican Party.

Why hasn't Donald Trump renounced David Duke, and his views?

--Lee

--
If PBS won't do it, who will?

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Biden has said that he did not oppose busing, only busing mandated by the federal government (a stance which should sound quite familiar in this day and
age of COVID vaccinations).

Biden has apologozed for his "you ain't black" comment and has said that he should not have been so cavalier. However, determining which party better serves the black community is pretty much a no-brainer. Today, right now, racist extremists consider the GOP to be their ideological home.

Interesting you bring up busing. Just this morning, Louisville's
superintedent was on television talking about just that topic. In the West
End of Louisville, which is predominantly black, he claimed that they took
a one square mile area and determined that the elemtary school kids in that area in one school year were sent to a total of 42 different elementary schools.

He also pointed out that problem was unique to the West End, and "problem"
is a key word here. He was not praising it as something good.

Now, that is interesting for two reasons. (1) for many, many years, Louisville's busing program was held up, by liberal groups and Democrat politicians, as the standard for other cities to follow, and (2) since Louisville's busing program started in the early 1970's, there have been a total of zero Republican administrations in charge of Louisville.

I am sure you will find a way to spin the "42 different schools" as not a problem. It is not a new problem, either. Back in the 1980's, where white ehildren were bused 2-4 years total (out of the 11 years they could be
bussed), black children were bussed *all* but 2-4 years total (7-9 years,
in other words). The system was being praised then, too.


* SLMR 2.1a * Never draw fire, it irritates everyone around you.
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On 25 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Biden has said that he did not oppose busing, only busing mandated by th federal government (a stance which should sound quite familiar in this d and
age of COVID vaccinations).

Biden has apologozed for his "you ain't black" comment and has said that should not have been so cavalier. However, determining which party bette serves the black community is pretty much a no-brainer. Today, right now racist extremists consider the GOP to be their ideological home.

Interesting you bring up busing. Just this morning, Louisville's superintedent was on television talking about just that topic. In the West End of Louisville, which is predominantly black, he claimed that
they took a one square mile area and determined that the elemtary school kids in that area in one school year were sent to a total of 42
different elementary schools.

That is not unforseeable. "Busing" is a loaded term. One might think it
simply means transporting kids to the nearest school if it's too far away for them to walk, but it also refers to sending kids to schools that are not nearest them in order to enforce integration and desegregation.

If there were 42 different schools that needed to be integrated, and all of
the bodies needed to do so could be taken from a single neighborhood, that might have been seen as the least disruptive method to comply. If just disrupting that one square mile would leave 41 other square miles
undisrupted, someone may have decided that was the best choice, especially if that one square mile were centrally located.

He also pointed out that problem was unique to the West End, and
"problem" is a key word here. He was not praising it as something good.

It sounds, then, like a novel solution to compliance with the law that may or may not have been the best option.

Now, that is interesting for two reasons. (1) for many, many years, Louisville's busing program was held up, by liberal groups and Democrat politicians, as the standard for other cities to follow, and (2) since Louisville's busing program started in the early 1970's, there have been
a total of zero Republican administrations in charge of Louisville.

I would assume that it would be school district bureaucrats that would plan
the busing details, rather than politicians. Perhaps the liberal groups and Democrat politicians were pointing to Louisville as having a high level of compliance. It seems apparent that this "one square mile" situation was
limited to one area of Louisville.

I am sure you will find a way to spin the "42 different schools" as not a problem. It is not a new problem, either. Back in the 1980's, where white ehildren were bused 2-4 years total (out of the 11 years they
could be bussed), black children were bussed *all* but 2-4 years total (7-9 years, in other words). The system was being praised then, too.

That makes sense, when you consider the purpose of the busing. The black children are the minority that needs to be distributed amongst all of the schools in order to enforce integration. Sending white kids from one predominantly white school to another predominantly white school accomplished nothing.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Now, that is interesting for two reasons. (1) for many, many years, Louisville's busing program was held up, by liberal groups and Democrat politicians, as the standard for other cities to follow, and (2) since Louisville's busing program started in the early 1970's, there have been a total of zero Republican administrations in charge of Louisville.

I would assume that it would be school district bureaucrats that would plan the busing details, rather than politicians. Perhaps the liberal groups and Democrat politicians were pointing to Louisville as having a high level of compliance. It seems apparent that this "one square mile" situation was limited to one area of Louisville.

And, in this situation, politicians of which party would have been
appointing those bureaucrats?

I am sure you will find a way to spin the "42 different schools" as not a
problem. It is not a new problem, either. Back in the 1980's, where white ehildren were bused 2-4 years total (out of the 11 years they could be bussed), black children were bussed *all* but 2-4 years total (7-9 years, in other words). The system was being praised then, too.

That makes sense, when you consider the purpose of the busing. The black children are the minority that needs to be distributed amongst all of the schools in order to enforce integration. Sending white kids from one predominantly white school to another predominantly white school accomplished nothing.

Numerically, you can make it make sense, but it is not fair to the kids.
The problem here is the assumption that the schools they are being sent
away to integrate are also superior (or even equal) in academics, which sounds like a mistake that our President might make. The reality is that these black children were very often being bussed *away* from the schools that were academically superior. When that first became obvious, nothing was done to correct it. Good academic schoos like Lincoln, Meyzeek and, later, Central, were all downtown. Another result... in the mid-1970's/early 1980's, I attended two of those schools. There was not one minority in any of my core classes... only in gym and other extraciriculars. I had more "neighborhood" (not bussed in) minorities in my classes at my home school.


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On 26 Feb 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Now, that is interesting for two reasons. (1) for many, many years Louisville's busing program was held up, by liberal groups and Demo politicians, as the standard for other cities to follow, and (2) si Louisville's busing program started in the early 1970's, there have a total of zero Republican administrations in charge of Louisville.

I would assume that it would be school district bureaucrats that would p the busing details, rather than politicians. Perhaps the liberal groups Democrat politicians were pointing to Louisville as having a high level compliance. It seems apparent that this "one square mile" situation was limited to one area of Louisville.

And, in this situation, politicians of which party would have been appointing those bureaucrats?

I'm not sure how things work in Kentucky, but here we have school boards who handle those sorts of things. I'm not talking about politicians delegating their work to appointed committees, etc., I'm talking about school district officials and the like. It is they who would most likely handle the details
of how the busing would take form. I strongly suspect this to be the case in Louisville, since the peculiar solution in question is limited to just one
part of the city and was not more widespread across the city and/or state.

I am sure you will find a way to spin the "42 different schools" as a
problem. It is not a new problem, either. Back in the 1980's, whe white ehildren were bused 2-4 years total (out of the 11 years they could be bussed), black children were bussed *all* but 2-4 years to (7-9 years, in other words). The system was being praised then, to

That makes sense, when you consider the purpose of the busing. The black children are the minority that needs to be distributed amongst all of th schools in order to enforce integration. Sending white kids from one predominantly white school to another predominantly white school accompl nothing.

Numerically, you can make it make sense, but it is not fair to the kids. The problem here is the assumption that the schools they are being sent away to integrate are also superior (or even equal) in academics, which sounds like a mistake that our President might make.

No, it's not fair to *those* kids, but the point was to make things fairer
for all kids from then on. The president isn't going to decide on a
kid-by-kid basis who goes where all over the country. That black kids were
sent to inferior schools sounds to me like local racism corrupting an attempt to lessen racism.

The reality is
that these black children were very often being bussed *away* from the schools that were academically superior. When that first became
obvious, nothing was done to correct it. Good academic schoos like Lincoln, Meyzeek and, later, Central, were all downtown.

Are Kentucky schools financed by property taxes? That is how it's done here
and school quality can vary widely by location.

Another
result... in the mid-1970's/early 1980's, I attended two of those
schools. There was not one minority in any of my core classes... only
in gym and other extraciriculars. I had more "neighborhood" (not bussed in) minorities in my classes at my home school.

It sounds like the objectives of busing were possibly being manipulated by those who opposed it.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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I would assume that it would be school district bureaucrats that would the busing details, rather than politicians. Perhaps the liberal groups
Democrat politicians were pointing to Louisville as having a high level
compliance. It seems apparent that this "one square mile" situation was
limited to one area of Louisville.

And, in this situation, politicians of which party would have been appointing those bureaucrats?

I'm not sure how things work in Kentucky, but here we have school boards who handle those sorts of things. I'm not talking about politicians delegating their work to appointed committees, etc., I'm talking about school district officials and the like. It is they who would most likely handle the details of how the busing would take form. I strongly suspect this to be the case in Louisville, since the peculiar solution in question is limited to just one part of the city and was not more widespread across the city and/or state.

Yes, but the school board members are either appointed by the
administration, or voted in by the same people who vote in the
administration. In other words, Democrat controlled.

Numerically, you can make it make sense, but it is not fair to the kids. The problem here is the assumption that the schools they are being sent away to integrate are also superior (or even equal) in academics, which sounds like a mistake that our President might make.

No, it's not fair to *those* kids, but the point was to make things fairer for all kids from then on. The president isn't going to decide on a kid-by-kid basis who goes where all over the country. That black kids were sent to inferior schools sounds to me like local racism corrupting an attempt to lessen racism.

Our President has made the mistake I was talking about... thinking out loud that white kids (and, by extension, their schools) are somehow smarter than other kids.

To expand on your point, local racism from the local controlling
*Democrats* either intentionally corrupting an attempt to lessen racism or
by making the "white schools are better" assumption.

Not sure how it made it fairer to *minority* children from then on, but I
know I got at least one really good year of academics at a school they were being bussed away from. I would say two but the elementary school I was
bussed away from was not near as underperforming as the jr high I got
bussed away from.

So I guess it is fairer for the non-minority kids, although I don't think
that was what you meant.

The reality is
that these black children were very often being bussed *away* from the schools that were academically superior. When that first became obvious, nothing was done to correct it. Good academic schoos like Lincoln, Meyzeek and, later, Central, were all downtown.

Are Kentucky schools financed by property taxes? That is how it's done here and school quality can vary widely by location.

Yes, but at least one of those three schools in located in an area that was surrounded by the projects. Another was surrounded by mostly businesses
and a low-income neighborhood... many of those businesses were in decline
and are no longer with us. My recollection of driving by the third one, to drop kids off on my way to the first, was that it was at least partially surrounded by projects as we drove right through their parking lots.

My point here being that these schools were not in high property tax areas. Since they were all part of the same school district, I don't think that matters. I think in Kentucky's case, because they are all in the same district, they all draw from the same funds... the funds are not divided by what neighborhood they are in. Other property taxes, for police, fire,
etc., are broken down into smaller fund "buckets," though.

It sounds like the objectives of busing were possibly being manipulated by those who opposed it.

But they were being praised for it by other liberal/Democrat cities and organizations. Sounds intentional.


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I would assume that it would be school district bureaucrats that the busing details, rather than politicians. Perhaps the liberal

groups

Democrat politicians were pointing to Louisville as having a high

level

compliance. It seems apparent that this "one square mile" situati

was

limited to one area of Louisville.

And, in this situation, politicians of which party would have been appointing those bureaucrats?

I'm not sure how things work in Kentucky, but here we have school boards handle those sorts of things. I'm not talking about politicians delegati their work to appointed committees, etc., I'm talking about school distr officials and the like. It is they who would most likely handle the deta of how the busing would take form. I strongly suspect this to be the cas Louisville, since the peculiar solution in question is limited to just o part of the city and was not more widespread across the city and/or stat

Yes, but the school board members are either appointed by the administration, or voted in by the same people who vote in the administration. In other words, Democrat controlled.

Are they? Here school board members are elected by the citizens covered by
the school district.

Numerically, you can make it make sense, but it is not fair to the The problem here is the assumption that the schools they are being away to integrate are also superior (or even equal) in academics, w sounds like a mistake that our President might make.

No, it's not fair to *those* kids, but the point was to make things fair for all kids from then on. The president isn't going to decide on a kid-by-kid basis who goes where all over the country. That black kids we sent to inferior schools sounds to me like local racism corrupting an at to lessen racism.

Our President has made the mistake I was talking about... thinking out loud that white kids (and, by extension, their schools) are somehow smarter than other kids.

Not quite. White kids (but not all white kids) tend to have better schools
when the school districts are funded by taxing those who live in the area
that the school district covers. Here school districts are funded by property taxes, and the districts that contain more valuable properties get
considerably more money.

There have been attempts to rectify this in Texas via the proposal of various "Robin Hood" plans, but none have become law that I'm aware of.

To expand on your point, local racism from the local controlling *Democrats* either intentionally corrupting an attempt to lessen racism
or by making the "white schools are better" assumption.

Or, black kids were sent to different schools within the same school district, and some school districts had very few black kids. And due to the way that school districts are funded, the school districts with fewer black kids
tended to be better funded, which aside from providing better resources for both teachers and children, also enabled those school districts to attract better teachers. And all of these factors lead directly to white kids getting
a better education than black kids.

Not sure how it made it fairer to *minority* children from then on, but I know I got at least one really good year of academics at a school they were being bussed away from. I would say two but the elementary school
I was bussed away from was not near as underperforming as the jr high I got bussed away from.

Integration has to start somewhere.

So I guess it is fairer for the non-minority kids, although I don't think that was what you meant.

That would depend on the criteria for "fair."

The reality is
that these black children were very often being bussed *away* from schools that were academically superior. When that first became obvious, nothing was done to correct it. Good academic schoos like Lincoln, Meyzeek and, later, Central, were all downtown.

Are Kentucky schools financed by property taxes? That is how it's done h and school quality can vary widely by location.

Yes, but at least one of those three schools in located in an area that was surrounded by the projects. Another was surrounded by mostly businesses and a low-income neighborhood... many of those businesses
were in decline and are no longer with us. My recollection of driving
by the third one, to drop kids off on my way to the first, was that it
was at least partially surrounded by projects as we drove right through their parking lots.

My point here being that these schools were not in high property tax areas. Since they were all part of the same school district, I don't
think that matters. I think in Kentucky's case, because they are all in the same district, they all draw from the same funds... the funds are
not divided by what neighborhood they are in. Other property taxes, for police, fire, etc., are broken down into smaller fund "buckets," though.

Right, the funding is usually district-wide. I would guess that Louisville
had more than one school district in the 80s.

It sounds like the objectives of busing were possibly being manipulated those who opposed it.

But they were being praised for it by other liberal/Democrat cities and organizations. Sounds intentional.

That would depend on what aspect of it was being praised. Did they implement
it particularly quickly or efficiently? Or was the fact that they implemented it at all rare enough to be praiseworthy?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Yes, but the school board members are either appointed by the administration, or voted in by the same people who vote in the administration. In other words, Democrat controlled.

Are they? Here school board members are elected by the citizens covered by the school district.

That would be covered by the "or voted in by the same people who vote in
the administration," i.e. voters who vote for Democrats.

Our President has made the mistake I was talking about... thinking out loud that white kids (and, by extension, their schools) are somehow smarter than other kids.

Not quite. White kids (but not all white kids) tend to have better schools when the school districts are funded by taxing those who live in the area that the school district covers. Here school districts are funded by property taxes, and the districts that contain more valuable properties get considerably more money.

Here, the school districts (usually) encompass the whole county. In Louisville's case, they do. They draw from the property taxes of the whole county... rich areas and poor. While there may be incentives for academic performance, the schools in the rich areas are drawing from the same pot as
the schools in poorer areas. IIRC, how much they draw is based on
attendance numbers (i.e. it is a percentage per day a child is present at
the school).

I am not sure about Northern Kentucky, but Lexington (another urban county)
is also covered by one county school district.

To expand on your point, local racism from the local controlling *Democrats* either intentionally corrupting an attempt to lessen racism or by making the "white schools are better" assumption.

Or, black kids were sent to different schools within the same school district,
and some school districts had very few black kids. And due to the way that school districts are funded, the school districts with fewer black kids tended to be better funded, which aside from providing better resources for both teachers and children, also enabled those school districts to attract better teachers. And all of these factors lead directly to white kids getting a better education than black kids.

I know I mentioned this in the message you are responding to, and I mentioned it here again, but the school system in question is *one* district. Not many. The schools the black children were being bussed away from are in the same district as the less-academically inclinded suburban schools they are bussed to.

To my knowledge, Kentucky never had any cross-district bussing.

Right, the funding is usually district-wide. I would guess that Louisville had more than one school district in the 80s.

Nope. Back in the 1960's, before bussing, they had two. Since the time that bussing started, Louisville/Jefferson County is *ONE* school district.
Kids are NOT bussed between districts. All the schools in question are in
the same district, and the funding is from the same pot.

Not sure how it made it fairer to *minority* children from then on, but I
know I got at least one really good year of academics at a school they were being bussed away from. I would say two but the elementary school I was bussed away from was not near as underperforming as the jr high I got bussed away from.

Integration has to start somewhere.

They have had nearly 50 years to get it right, but they are still failing
the kids that bussing was supposed to help. As you pointed out in a
previous message, it sounds like their compliance to the program is good. To many who are of the same political lean that their administrations are, I am sure that is all that matters.

So I guess it is fairer for the non-minority kids, although I don't think
that was what you meant.

That would depend on the criteria for "fair."

To go to a school with the same adademic standards and, therefore, opportunities, as the white kids. I would call that fair. What Louisville
has done for most of 50 years is not fair, by that definition. Spending an hour or two a day on a bus for most of your school career to go to a school in a white neighborhood where the adacemic standards are, at *most*, equal to a school within walking distance of your home, while white kids get bussed
only half the same years to go to a school which, at *worst*, has equal academic standards, is not fair.

That would only be fair to someone who has really bought into the idea
that Democrat/left-leaning policies can never be wrong.

So my original point, that Democrats can indeed come up with policies that
are detrimental to minorities (and pat themselves on the back for it, and
take forever to fix, and they will likely never admit to it) is correct.


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