Monday's Washington Post contained an interesting article about how the
Biden administration is reopening (not keeping open, but reopening) one of
the detention centers on the Southern border because there are too many children arriving at the border and they need a place to put the kids
because they've run out of places.

Hmmmm, if this was this time last year, there would have already been
outrage here from several. The topic of the Trump administration
separating the kids and putting them in this place, and others like it,
because they had no other place for them came up about once a week.
Certainly once every other week.

Where is the outrage now?


* SLMR 2.1a * Mason-Dixon Line n. Separates y'all from youse guys

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On 23 Feb 2021, MIKE POWELL said the following...

Monday's Washington Post contained an interesting article about how the Biden administration is reopening (not keeping open, but reopening) one
of the detention centers on the Southern border because there are too
many children arriving at the border and they need a place to put the
kids because they've run out of places.

Hmmmm, if this was this time last year, there would have already been outrage here from several. The topic of the Trump administration separating the kids and putting them in this place, and others like it, because they had no other place for them came up about once a week. Certainly once every other week.

Where is the outrage now?

Unaccompanied children are being detained, yes, because it would be inhumane
to just dump them back in Mexico. On that, Biden's policy is the same as Trump's.

However, that is where the similarity ends. These unaccompanied children are not being held in cages. They are being treated humanely, in COVID-safe facilities with access to education and healthcare, both physical and mental. Also in opposition to Trump policies, accompanied children are not being separated from their parents.

And that is why there is not the outrage that we saw under the Trump administration. Just those two little changes. Was that so hard?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Where is the outrage now?

For the first time ever, I want to hear what Melissa Milano has to say!

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

However, that is where the similarity ends. These unaccompanied children ar not being held in cages. They are being treated humanely, in COVID-safe facilities with access to education and healthcare, both physical and menta Also in opposition to Trump policies, accompanied children are not being separated from their parents.

Hilarious! There's no such thing as a "covid-safe facility!" Did Brooke Baldwin tell you that?

Also please dig up the video of Trump refusing to give educational material to the detained kids, we'd love to see it!

"Not seperated from their parents?" Let me see the DNA tests! Walking next to a kid in a conga line doesn't make you the parent!

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 24 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Hilarious! There's no such thing as a "covid-safe facility!" Did Brooke Baldwin tell you that?

Stuffing a bunch of kids in a cage together is decidedly COVID-unsafe. Taking proper precautions to reduce the spread of the virus is what is referred to
as COVID-safe. But you knew that.

Also please dig up the video of Trump refusing to give educational material to the detained kids, we'd love to see it!

He didn't have to refuse. He had to initiate better treatment, which he did
not do. But you knew that.

"Not seperated from their parents?" Let me see the DNA tests! Walking
next to a kid in a conga line doesn't make you the parent!

Yes, children do cross the border with their parents. And when they do, they are no longer separated from their families. Even if 100% of the children
were unaccompanied, as you seem to be implying, it would still be true that children are not being separated from their families. But you knew that.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 24 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Also please dig up the video of Trump refusing to give educational material to the detained kids, we'd love to see it!

It's interesting that you demand video evidence. Why video?

The Office of Refugee Relocation, or ORR, is the federal agency that handles the housing of detained migrant children. The ORR is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The Department of Health and Human Services is
part of the US executive branch. From January 20, 2017 to January 20, 2021, Donald Trump was the head of the US executive branch.

The ORR contracts out some of its work by awarding grants to various non-governmental organizations. Federal law requires that every child on US soil be given a free public education, regardless of immigration status. Traditionally, ORR grant recipients were responsible for this education for detained children.

On May 30, 2019, the HHS sent an email to these providers informing them that costs for educational and recreational activities, including the staff responsible for providing those programs, would be "unallowable costs" after May 22 (which, incidentally, was 8 days before the email was sent).

On June 5, 2019, the ORR instructed the grantees to "begin scaling back or discontinuing awards for UAC activites that are not directly necessary for
the protection of life and safety, including education services, legal services, and recreation."

Changes to the ORR website foreshadowing the upcoming policy change began on May 18, 2019, and are documented here: https://imprintnews.org/analysis/website-changes-foreshadowed-trump-changes-to- unaccompanied-minors-program/35555

Even if Trump were not directly responsible for this policy change, as head
of the US executive branch it was well within his power to reverse it. Which
he did not.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Where is the outrage now?

For the first time ever, I want to hear what Melissa Milano has to say!

As would I. Probably some excuse about how they needed to reopen the
facility due to COVID overcrowding. Remove the word "COVID" and that is exactly the same reason the Trump administration used it. They were not
the ones to build the cages there, though, or to use them first... hmmm,
whose administration was that, I cannot remember? :)


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* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

MIKE POWELL wrote to ALL <=-

@MSGID: <6035E042.678.fidonet_politics@20xd6>
Monday's Washington Post contained an interesting article about how the Biden administration is reopening (not keeping open, but reopening) one
of the detention centers on the Southern border because there are too
many children arriving at the border and they need a place to put the
kids because they've run out of places.

Hmmmm, if this was this time last year, there would have already been outrage here from several. The topic of the Trump administration separating the kids and putting them in this place, and others like it, because they had no other place for them came up about once a week. Certainly once every other week.

Where is the outrage now?

As of Sunday, there were about 7,000 children in HHS custody, over 90 percent capacity under pandemic-era requirements, Weber said. Carrizo is expected to close when the pandemic ends, he said.

“Every kid that comes into this program is a symptom of a broken immigration system,” said Weber, who has worked at HHS since 2012. “So today, we’ve got over 7,000 symptoms of a broken immigration system.”

Weber said the facilities received a bad rap under the Trump administration because many people associated them with the detention centers run by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. But the children always received good care and that never wavered between administrations, he said.

The majority of child migrant facilities are subject to state licensing requirements; temporary influx centers like Carrizo are not. However, Weber said Carrizo would “meet or exceed” Texas licensing standards if applicable. The influx facilities also cost more: about $775 a day per child compared with $290 a day for permanent centers.

That's from the article.


... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. === MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Jeff Thiele wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

However, that is where the similarity ends. These unaccompanied
children are not being held in cages. They are being treated humanely,
in COVID-safe facilities with access to education and healthcare, both physical and mental. Also in opposition to Trump policies, accompanied children are not being separated from their parents.

In reference to the facility in question, the facility was described as for childern. No mention of adults.


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* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)

Stuffing a bunch of kids in a cage together is decidedly COVID-unsafe. Taki proper precautions to reduce the spread of the virus is what is referred to as COVID-safe. But you knew that.

I understand that nobody can stuff kids into cages as carefully as Joe Biden.

Also please dig up the video of Trump refusing to give educational material to the detained kids, we'd love to see it!

He didn't have to refuse. He had to initiate better treatment, which he did not do. But you knew that.

How are we supposed to educate the smuggled children? Some of them don't speak English or Spanish, and many of them speak Persian. Do we have adequate Persian-speaking staff to educate these properly-caged Biden kids?

Yes, children do cross the border with their parents. And when they do, the are no longer separated from their families. Even if 100% of the children were unaccompanied, as you seem to be implying, it would still be true that children are not being separated from their families. But you knew that.

I apologize I didn't realize that they were conducting DNA tests to establish paternity. I stand corrected - because I know they aren't taking a criminal's word for it.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Even if Trump were not directly responsible for this policy change, as head of the US executive branch it was well within his power to reverse it. Whic he did not.

The children need to be deported faster so they don't miss school back in their home countries. Their teachers are marking them absent and the attendance lady has been unable to reach the parents by phone.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

As would I. Probably some excuse about how they needed to reopen the facility due to COVID overcrowding. Remove the word "COVID" and that is exactly the same reason the Trump administration used it. They were not the ones to build the cages there, though, or to use them first... hmmm, whose administration was that, I cannot remember? :)

The first president to put kids in cages? That's Barrack Obama. And the
last president to put kids in cages? That would be Joe Biden.

But it's ok because Joe said that his caged kids won't catch COVID, which makes Joe the better president because Trump's facility didn't have "COVID-SAFE" stamped on it.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 24 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Jeff Thiele wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

However, that is where the similarity ends. These unaccompanied children are not being held in cages. They are being treated humanely in COVID-safe facilities with access to education and healthcare, bot physical and mental. Also in opposition to Trump policies, accompanie children are not being separated from their parents.

In reference to the facility in question, the facility was described as for childern. No mention of adults.

Weird, isn't it?

It's almost as if... it's a facility for unaccompanied children!

It's almost as if... we don't need facilities for accompanied children if
said children aren't separated from their parents!

What makes you think adults would be detained there?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 24 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

I understand that nobody can stuff kids into cages as carefully as Joe Biden.

Is that so, now? Or are you just talking crap?

How are we supposed to educate the smuggled children? Some of them don't speak English or Spanish, and many of them speak Persian. Do we have adequate Persian-speaking staff to educate these properly-caged Biden kids?

One of the educational services offered is ESL. I also doubt that the
Iranian contingent is anywhere near as large as you claim. Somehow in your telling, 22 adult Iranians in FY2020 and 14 adult Iranians in FY2021 has blossomed into "many" unaccompanied Iranian children since, of course, accompanied Iranian children would remain with their family under the Biden policies. Do you have proof of these "many" unaccompanied Iranian children?

I apologize I didn't realize that they were conducting DNA tests to establish paternity. I stand corrected - because I know they aren't
taking a criminal's word for it.

Do you have children? Did you ever have to provide a paternity test to prove that they were yours? I have never had to do that.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The children need to be deported faster so they don't miss school back
in their home countries. Their teachers are marking them absent and the attendance lady has been unable to reach the parents by phone.

Are you suggesting that we deny them due process?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 24 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

But it's ok because Joe said that his caged kids won't catch COVID,
which makes Joe the better president because Trump's facility didn't
have "COVID-SAFE" stamped on it.

Under Biden, unaccompanied children are not put in cages and children who entered with their families are not separated from their families. Under
Trump, these facilities did not observe COVID precautions; under Biden they
do. Not my fault your guy was a loser.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

blossomed into "many" unaccompanied Iranian children since, of course, accompanied Iranian children would remain with their family under the Biden policies. Do you have proof of these "many" unaccompanied Iranian children?

Do you have proof that they're not? Would it be convenient for you if all human trafficking victims being smuggled through Guatemala & Mexico were latino?

Do you have children? Did you ever have to provide a paternity test to prov that they were yours? I have never had to do that.

I've never tried sneaking into another country with my kids, but if I did, the paternity test would show that they're my kids, unlike those that Biden is locking in Obama cages.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

The children need to be deported faster so they don't miss school back in their home countries. Their teachers are marking them absent and th attendance lady has been unable to reach the parents by phone.

Are you suggesting that we deny them due process?

I'm suggesting that their parents, if they have any, should be in cages for endangering the welfare of a child, and that the children should be returned to their home countries, to the custody of their home governments, not foreign ones.

I'm also suggesting that Democrats should stop being so supportive of human trafficking in the first place. Democrats like Joe Biden are the reason why newborn babies are swimming across the Rio Grande in the first place.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Under Biden, unaccompanied children are not put in cages and children who entered with their families are not separated from their families. Under Trump, these facilities did not observe COVID precautions; under Biden they do. Not my fault your guy was a loser.

But your guys are the reason why these people are swimming across the Rio Grande with infants in the first place.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

blossomed into "many" unaccompanied Iranian children since, of course, accompanied Iranian children would remain with their family under the policies. Do you have proof of these "many" unaccompanied Iranian chil

Do you have proof that they're not? Would it be convenient for you if
all human trafficking victims being smuggled through Guatemala & Mexico were latino?

You're the one making the claim; the burden of proof is on you.

Do you have children? Did you ever have to provide a paternity test to that they were yours? I have never had to do that.

I've never tried sneaking into another country with my kids, but if I
did, the paternity test would show that they're my kids, unlike those
that Biden is locking in Obama cages.

The Biden administration is not putting kids in cages. Surely you've had to prove that the kids were yours at some point. Or did everyone just take your word for it?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

The children need to be deported faster so they don't miss school in their home countries. Their teachers are marking them absent a attendance lady has been unable to reach the parents by phone.

Are you suggesting that we deny them due process?

I'm suggesting that their parents, if they have any, should be in cages for endangering the welfare of a child, and that the children should be returned to their home countries, to the custody of their home governments, not foreign ones.

I'm also suggesting that Democrats should stop being so supportive of human trafficking in the first place. Democrats like Joe Biden are the reason why newborn babies are swimming across the Rio Grande in the
first place.

They are seeking asylum because their home countries are not safe for them. Seeking asylum in the US is not trafficking and there are no babies swimming across the Rio Grande, not on their own, anyway.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

But your guys are the reason why these people are swimming across the
Rio Grande with infants in the first place.

If they are swimming across the Rio Grande with infants, then the infants are not unaccompanied.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

blossomed into "many" unaccompanied Iranian children since, of course, accompanied Iranian children would remain with their family under the policies. Do you have proof of these "many" unaccompanied Iranian chil

Do you have proof that they're not? Would it be convenient for you if
all human trafficking victims being smuggled through Guatemala & Mexico were latino?

The vast majority of undocumented immigrants are not victims of human trafficking. If they were, would you be so keen to send these vulnerable
people back to their countries of origin?

That said, of an estimated unauthorized population living in the US of 10,977,000, the top 5 countries of birth are Mexico (51%), El Salvador (7%), Guatemala (5%), India (4%), and Honduras (4%).

The top 5 languages spoken by the unauthorized population are Spanish (73%), English (8%), Chinese (4%), Tagalog (2%), and Portuguese (1%).

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The Biden administration is not putting kids in cages. Surely you've had to prove that the kids were yours at some point. Or did everyone just take you word for it?

Your media changed the word "cages" with "covid-safe facilities" after Biden re-opened the cages. He's been known to rattle chains, and now he's rattling cages.

I have birth certificates for my kids, but illegals leave incriminating documents like that back in their home countries.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

They are seeking asylum because their home countries are not safe for them. Seeking asylum in the US is not trafficking and there are no babies swimmin across the Rio Grande, not on their own, anyway.

Democrats made it unsafe in Honduras by replacing a democratically-elected administration with a Clinton-approved dictatorship.

But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

If they are swimming across the Rio Grande with infants, then the infants a not unaccompanied.

If they have an id card for themself, and birth certificates for the infants, then you're right - but we're talking about incarcerated people who got caught sneaking in.

They aren't stupid - our immigration policies are broadcast on latino, Iranian, and Chinese news outlets. They know that liberal Joe says it's ok to come, but they also know that it's even better to sneak in so they don't have to stay in some crappy Obama cage for a few days.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

The vast majority of undocumented immigrants are not victims of human trafficking. If they were, would you be so keen to send these vulnerable people back to their countries of origin?

How many is "vast majority?" You're minimizing the pains suffered along the caravan road to support Joe Biden, and saying stuff like "the babies are not swimming across the Rio Grande without adult supervision."

The Rio Grande is the most disgusting, muddy, polluted cesspool of a river that I've ever seen. I wouldn't even stick my hand in there.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Re: Re: Back in the cages
By: Mike Powell to AARON THOMAS on Thu Feb 25 2021 03:41 pm

The first president to put kids in cages? That's Barrack Obama. And
the last president to put kids in cages? That would be Joe Biden.

Shhhh.... don't tell Jeff or Al.

I hate to burst your bubble but "kids in cages" was never the issue.

The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Math problems? Call 1-800-10*(24+13)-(64-16)/2^14E2.
--- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Your media changed the word "cages" with "covid-safe facilities" after Biden re-opened the cages. He's been known to rattle chains, and now
he's rattling cages.

Not quite. Biden didn't "reopen" any cages. COVID-safe refers to guidelines
to prevent the spread of COVID which apparently these facilities weren't following under Trump.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

They are seeking asylum because their home countries are not safe for Seeking asylum in the US is not trafficking and there are no babies sw across the Rio Grande, not on their own, anyway.

Democrats made it unsafe in Honduras by replacing a
democratically-elected administration with a Clinton-approved dictatorship.

Reagan and Bush did quite a bit of dictator-sponsoring of their own.

But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of those places? That said, I doubt that very many, if any, of the unaccompanied children are coming from China and Iran.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

If they are swimming across the Rio Grande with infants, then the infa not unaccompanied.

If they have an id card for themself, and birth certificates for the infants, then you're right - but we're talking about incarcerated people who got caught sneaking in.

You don't need an id or a birth certificate to be a parent.

They aren't stupid - our immigration policies are broadcast on latino, Iranian, and Chinese news outlets. They know that liberal Joe says it's
ok to come, but they also know that it's even better to sneak in so they don't have to stay in some crappy Obama cage for a few days.

It's actually quite common for undocumented immigrants to seek out the border patrol and surrender. Most of them do not even try to hide. That's because
our asylum policy has a catch-22 in it: One can only claim US asylum on US soil. They can't claim asylum from their home country; they can't claim
asylum from Mexico.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

As would I. Probably some excuse about how they needed to reopen the facility due to COVID overcrowding. Remove the word "COVID" and that is exactly the same reason the Trump administration used it. They were not the ones to build the cages there, though, or to use them first... hmmm, whose administration was that, I cannot remember? :)

The first president to put kids in cages? That's Barrack Obama. And the
last president to put kids in cages? That would be Joe Biden.

Shhhh.... don't tell Jeff or Al.

But it's ok because Joe said that his caged kids won't catch COVID, which makes Joe the better president because Trump's facility didn't have "COVID-SAFE" stamped on it.

When the Trump administration was using that facility, COVID wasn't a thing yet.


* SLMR 2.1a * Anything good is either illegal, immoral or fattening.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

The vast majority of undocumented immigrants are not victims of human trafficking. If they were, would you be so keen to send these vulnerab people back to their countries of origin?

How many is "vast majority?" You're minimizing the pains suffered along the caravan road to support Joe Biden, and saying stuff like "the babies are not swimming across the Rio Grande without adult supervision."

My feelings about this did not change with Joe Biden. "Human trafficking" implies that the people crossing the border are being brought here against their will. While some may be, most are not. You're attempting to equate unauthorized border crossings with human trafficking, a much more loaded
term, and that is dishonest.

Yes, the immigrants face pains along the caravan trail, but this is a
testament to their desperation. Having faced all of that, do you think a wall would stop them?

The Rio Grande is the most disgusting, muddy, polluted cesspool of a
river that I've ever seen. I wouldn't even stick my hand in there.

Yet another testament to their desperation.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

I hate to burst your bubble but "kids in cages" was never the issue.

The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

There were people who had an issue with the cages too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/23/no-bidens-new-border-move-i snt-like-trumps-kids-cages-not-hardly/
--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Reagan and Bush did quite a bit of dictator-sponsoring of their own.

It doesn't excuse more of it on Hillary Clinton's part.

But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of those places? That

Show me a 1 bedroom vacation home in either for less than $50g.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

You don't need an id or a birth certificate to be a parent.

You can not enroll your child in school without a birth certificate. You can not take your child to another country without a birth certificate. You can not do a lot of stuff for your child without a birth certificate. You can not have a nice day in custody court without a birth certificate.

You can not be a parent without your child's birth certificate.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

My feelings about this did not change with Joe Biden. "Human trafficking" implies that the people crossing the border are being brought here against their will. While some may be, most are not. You're attempting to equate unauthorized border crossings with human trafficking, a much more loaded term, and that is dishonest.

How many is "most?"

Since "most" are not brought here against their will, you're ignoring the ones who are. How many slaves are enough for you?

You're saying that unauthorized border crossings have nothing to do with trafficking, and that is misleading and it's actually quite sick that someone would defend human slavery in the united states just to defend Joe Biden's failure of a pandemic plan and mismanagement of an immigration plan.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Reagan and Bush did quite a bit of dictator-sponsoring of their own.

It doesn't excuse more of it on Hillary Clinton's part.

Nope. The US has a long history of sticking our noses where they don't belong.

But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of those places?

Show me a 1 bedroom vacation home in either for less than $50g.

Somehow I don't think that the lack of an affordable vacation home is your
only reason. What are you hiding?

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

You can not enroll your child in school without a birth certificate. You can not take your child to another country without a birth certificate. You can not do a lot of stuff for your child without a birth
certificate. You can not have a nice day in custody court without a
birth certificate.

You can not be a parent without your child's birth certificate.

Schools require proof of the child's identity (a passport would suffice), but in my experience do not require proof of parentage. The same with
international travel. I've never actually seen anyone present a birth certificate when embarking on or returning from international travel.
Typically a passport is required. Even custody court does not require proof
of parentage, since custody is possible without being a parent (for example
in cases of adoption or grandparents & other legal guardians).

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 25 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

How many is "most?"

At the very least, more than 1/2. Realistically, more than 15/16.

Since "most" are not brought here against their will, you're ignoring
the ones who are. How many slaves are enough for you?

You're saying that unauthorized border crossings have nothing to do with trafficking, and that is misleading and it's actually quite sick that someone would defend human slavery in the united states just to defend
Joe Biden's failure of a pandemic plan and mismanagement of an
immigration plan.

According to the CBP, their current efforts to deter and disrupt human trafficking consist of:
1. Identifying potential victims as they seek to enter the US.
2. Directing potential victims to US agencies providing legal protection and assistance, through printed materials with educational information and telephone numbers where help can be obtained.
3. Raising awareness among the American public of this often-invisible, yet pervasive crime, through public service announcements.
4. Raising awareness internationally among potential border-crossers before they fall into the hands of traffickers, in countries where this crime is pervasive and where border smuggling frequently involves human trafficking.
5. Helping the public to report suspected cases of human trafficking.
6. Identifying imports produced by forced labor and stopping them from
entering the country.
7. Dedicating an office specifically to combating human trafficking.
8. Partnering with other law enforcement agencies to identify and support victims, such as by educating legal counsel to detect signs of victimization, to disrupt the crime itself and to prosecute human traffickers.
9. Partnering with non-governmental organizations to provide information
about government assistance to potential victims.
10. Participating in the development of best practices for law enforcement efforts witing the US and internationally.

Do you know what is conspicuously missing from this list?
1. Any mention of a wall.
2. Speed return of children to their home countries so that they don't miss school.
3. Across-the board, zero-tolerance policies for border crossers.
4. Sending potential victims, regardless of country of origin, back to Mexico to await their court date.

I didn't say that unauthorized border crossings have nothing to do with human trafficking, but it would appear that you are the one supporting inhumane policies.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

The first president to put kids in cages? That's Barrack Obama. And
the last president to put kids in cages? That would be Joe Biden.

Shhhh.... don't tell Jeff or Al.

I hate to burst your bubble but "kids in cages" was never the issue.

The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

I hate to burst your bubble but that is happening again now.


* SLMR 2.1a * EBCDIC: Erase Backup Chew Disk Ignite Cards
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On 26 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

I hate to burst your bubble but "kids in cages" was never the issue.

The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

I hate to burst your bubble but that is happening again now.

Nope. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/25/glenn-beck/no-biden-not-separ ating-families-entering-country/

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of those pla

Show me a 1 bedroom vacation home in either for less than $50g.

Somehow I don't think that the lack of an affordable vacation home is
your only reason. What are you hiding?

I'm not hiding the fact that the US-Mexico border is a travel destination for people from around the world seeking fast entry into the USA.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Schools require proof of the child's identity (a passport would
suffice), but in my experience do not require proof of parentage. The
same with international travel. I've never actually seen anyone present
a birth certificate when embarking on or returning from international travel. Typically a passport is required. Even custody court does not require proof of parentage, since custody is possible without being a parent (for example in cases of adoption or grandparents & other legal guardians).

When an American travels internationally with their child, they need to have a passport for their child. To get a passport for their child, they need to have a birth certificate among other documents.

I suspect that you don't have any kids or that you haven't traveled internationally with your children. I've done that several times already and I'm not blowing smoke for the sake of being right.

Have you ever blown smoke for the sake of being right?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Do you know what is conspicuously missing from this list?
1. Any mention of a wall.
2. Speed return of children to their home countries so that they don't miss school.
3. Across-the board, zero-tolerance policies for border crossers.
4. Sending potential victims, regardless of country of origin, back to Mexico to await their court date.

You're right, those things need to be added to the list, but Democrats don't care if some central american kids miss school in their home countries.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Re: Re: Back in the cages
By: Mike Powell to ALAN IANSON on Fri Feb 26 2021 11:12 am

The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

I hate to burst your bubble but that is happening again now.

Really, How is that?

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits.
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On 26 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of thos

Show me a 1 bedroom vacation home in either for less than $50g.

Somehow I don't think that the lack of an affordable vacation home is your only reason. What are you hiding?

I'm not hiding the fact that the US-Mexico border is a travel
destination for people from around the world seeking fast entry into the USA.

You've attacked both China and Iran in the past for being dangerous places to live, but now you won't admit that people from those countries might feel unsafe? Interesting...

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 26 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

When an American travels internationally with their child, they need to have a passport for their child. To get a passport for their child, they need to have a birth certificate among other documents.

This is true. However, once you have the passport, it it good for 10 years.
For 10 years, you don't need to present the child's birth certificate, no matter how many trips you take. As long as that child has a passport, you do not need to prove parentage to travel internationally. A birth certificate proves parentage, and a passport implies that a birth certificate exists, but
a passport does not prove parentage.

I suspect that you don't have any kids or that you haven't traveled internationally with your children. I've done that several times already and I'm not blowing smoke for the sake of being right.

I do and I have. And I've never had to prove parentage when traveling internationally.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 26 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Do you know what is conspicuously missing from this list?
4. Sending potential victims, regardless of country of origin, back t Mexico to await their court date.

You honestly think that suspected victims of human trafficking should be sent to Mexico, presumably along with their captor, to await a decision? Damn,
dude, and you think I'm heartless.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Democrats made it unsafe in Honduras by replacing a democratically-elected administration with a Clinton-approved dictatorship.

Reagan and Bush did quite a bit of dictator-sponsoring of their own.

Yes, but we are talking about the most-recent, Democrat-proclaimed Central American "humanitarian crisis." They should know. When Hillary first published her most-recent memoirs, she mentioned that regieme change as one
of her biggest accomplishments as SoS.

Later, when it turned into a poo-storm, that claim mysterious disappeared
from any future printings. She wants you to think she had nothing to do
with it now.


* SLMR 2.1a * Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
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soil. They can't claim asylum from their home country; they can't claim asylum from Mexico.

They can claim asylum IN Mexico, if they are coming up from points South of there. They have escaped the Clinton-created hell-hole by the time they
get to Mexico. By the time they get here, they have crossed a
democratically controled country (central Mexico), then crossed a dangerous drug-lord, human-smuggling controlled frontier (northern Mexico).

If they have kids, by not surrendering to Mexican authorities at their
southern border, they have endangered their kids' lives for no good reason. They deserve to be separated from them, just like any US citizen that get charged with child endangerment.


* SLMR 2.1a * A distant ship, smoke on the horizon....
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But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of those places? That

I don't want to live in China because, unlike many Americans, I don't
believe that a communist country (or one that claims to be so) is the
"social utopia" they seem to think it would be if we did it here. I also believe it is unsafe for many reasons, especially if you are an ethnic minority, but that is not the only reason I'd not want to live there.

I would not want to live in Iran because it is a religious totalitarian country. I can agree that it is unsafe for anyone who doesn't toe the
line, and that probably *would* be why I would not want to live there. That, and I suspect that most of the area is too hot.


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You can not be a parent without your child's birth certificate.

... unless you are here illegally, or as part of some Biden program that
makes it where you aren't technically illegal anymore.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Did you open the Microwave door before the 'ding'"?
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
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Schools require proof of the child's identity (a passport would suffice), but in my experience do not require proof of parentage. The same with international travel.

But what do you have to have in order to get a passport? I needed a copy
of my birth certificate, and several other documents, to get one.

Since most of the people in question have no documentation, I doubt they
have anything resembling a passport.


* SLMR 2.1a * Politically incorrect...and proud of it!!!
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On 26 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Reagan and Bush did quite a bit of dictator-sponsoring of their own.

Yes, but we are talking about the most-recent, Democrat-proclaimed
Central American "humanitarian crisis." They should know. When Hillary first published her most-recent memoirs, she mentioned that regieme
change as one of her biggest accomplishments as SoS.

No, we're not. It would be very convenient for you if we were, though.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 26 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

soil. They can't claim asylum from their home country; they can't claim asylum from Mexico.

They can claim asylum IN Mexico, if they are coming up from points South of there. They have escaped the Clinton-created hell-hole by the time they get to Mexico. By the time they get here, they have crossed a democratically controled country (central Mexico), then crossed a dangerous drug-lord, human-smuggling controlled frontier (northern Mexico).

They could, but they choose not to.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 26 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

But why and how is it unsafe in China and Iran?

You tell me. Why wouldn't you want to live in either of those places?

I don't want to live in China because, unlike many Americans, I don't believe that a communist country (or one that claims to be so) is the "social utopia" they seem to think it would be if we did it here. I also believe it is unsafe for many reasons, especially if you are an ethnic minority, but that is not the only reason I'd not want to live there.

I would not want to live in Iran because it is a religious totalitarian country. I can agree that it is unsafe for anyone who doesn't toe the line, and that probably *would* be why I would not want to live there. That, and I suspect that most of the area is too hot.

Well, there you go.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 26 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

But what do you have to have in order to get a passport? I needed a copy of my birth certificate, and several other documents, to get one.

This is true, but the point is that once you have the passport, the birth certificate is no longer required. Information is lost in the process. The birth certificate contains information about a person't parents whereas a passport does not. Possession of a passport indicates that a birth
certificate for this person existed at some point, but not all of the information on the birth certificate is duplicated in the passport.

The topic was proving parentage. A passport doesn't do that but is perfectly fine in most cases where a birth certificate would otherwise be required.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 26 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Since most of the people in question have no documentation, I doubt they have anything resembling a passport.

Just because they're undocumented doesn't mean they don't have documentation.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

I suspect that you don't have any kids or that you haven't traveled internationally with your children. I've done that several times alre and I'm not blowing smoke for the sake of being right.

I do and I have. And I've never had to prove parentage when traveling internationally.

But what do you think the foreign country is going to say to you when you get off the plane with your kids and you have no passport for yourself or the kids?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

But what do you think the foreign country is going to say to you when
you get off the plane with your kids and you have no passport for
yourself or the kids?

I didn't say no passport, I said no proof of parentage. Passports do not
prove parentage. Although a birth cretificate proves parenatge, a passport
does not. And yet... a passport is good enough.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 02-26-21 10:56, Aaron Thomas <=-
spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Back in the cages <=-

When an American travels internationally with their child, they need
to have a passport for their child.

Correct.

To get a passport for their child,
they need to have a birth certificate among other documents.

Not always. Our daughter got a passport but we did not have a birth certificate when we went overseas.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:17:01, 27 Feb 2021
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

line, and that probably *would* be why I would not want to live there That, and I suspect that most of the area is too hot.

Well, there you go.

That's Mike's statement, not mine! If I grew up in one of those countries I'd learn how to love it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 26 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Well, there you go.

That's Mike's statement, not mine! If I grew up in one of those
countries I'd learn how to love it.

Indeed it is. I even had to change the To: line to get it to you.

Nevertheless, Mike has answered your question as to why people might fear living in these places.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Nevertheless, Mike has answered your question as to why people might fear living in these places.

The same media who's selling that story to you should also sell you one about the fears of living in those places.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 27 Feb 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Nevertheless, Mike has answered your question as to why people might living in these places.

The same media who's selling that story to you should also sell you one about the fears of living in those places.

You'd have to ask Mike where he got that idea from.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Reagan and Bush did quite a bit of dictator-sponsoring of their own.

Yes, but we are talking about the most-recent, Democrat-proclaimed Central American "humanitarian crisis." They should know. When Hillary first published her most-recent memoirs, she mentioned that regieme change as one of her biggest accomplishments as SoS.

No, we're not. It would be very convenient for you if we were, though.

Actually, I am pretty certain that is what Aaron was talking about until
you tried to change the subject on him. The current "humanitarian crisis" supposedly lead to all of this new migration to our borders. HRC had a
hand in the start of that crisis. It wasn't something that Reagan did
back 35-40 years ago.

They can claim asylum IN Mexico, if they are coming up from points South of there. They have escaped the Clinton-created hell-hole by the time they get to Mexico. By the time they get here, they have crossed a democratically controled country (central Mexico), then crossed a dangerous drug-lord, human-smuggling controlled frontier (northern Mexico).

They could, but they choose not to.

Then when they get here, they are no longer claiming asylum in any
legitimate sense.


* SLMR 2.1a * How can I escape this irresistable grasp?
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This is true, but the point is that once you have the passport, the birth certificate is no longer required. Information is lost in the process. The birth certificate contains information about a person't parents whereas a passport does not. Possession of a passport indicates that a birth certificate for this person existed at some point, but not all of the information on the birth certificate is duplicated in the passport.

The topic was proving parentage. A passport doesn't do that but is perfectly fine in most cases where a birth certificate would otherwise be required.

Aaron can correct me if I am mistaken but, again, I am pretty sure that the topic was how do people who CLAIM to have NO papers (which means they can't
get a passport!) prove valid parentage.

Not whatever you chose to change the topic to, but what it was.


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The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

I hate to burst your bubble but that is happening again now.

Really, How is that?

And the circle continues.


* SLMR 2.1a * He knows changes aren't permanent - but change is!
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On 27 Feb 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Actually, I am pretty certain that is what Aaron was talking about until you tried to change the subject on him. The current "humanitarian
crisis" supposedly lead to all of this new migration to our borders.
HRC had a hand in the start of that crisis. It wasn't something that Reagan did back 35-40 years ago.

This is not our first case of migration due to humanitarian crises that we played a hand in. Vietnam, Iran, and Iraq are other examples.

Then when they get here, they are no longer claiming asylum in any legitimate sense.

You would think, then, that none of them would be granted asylum, right? But some are. And so you are clearly wrong about that, from a legal perspective.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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The issue was the separation of kids from their families.

I hate to burst your bubble but that is happening again now.

Really, How is that?

And the circle continues.

It might be a good idea to keep all the links from the past few months handy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Really, How is that?

And the circle continues.

It might be a good idea to keep all the links from the past few months handy.

No kidding. I think he likes to keep the circle going so you eventually
give up and he gets the last word. I am going to let him be happy with
that this time.


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