Hello everybody!

A democracy cannot succeed without voluntary cooperation, trust and restraint. Laws do not enforce themselves, and there is a good reason why Supreme Court nominations are now the subject of fierce contention. Although the Supreme Court sometimes put limits on Trump's excesses, it is now firmly in conservative hands for some time after Trump's presidency.

When key figures consistently act in bad faith, laws will not protect in the end. That is why Trump and the movement he unleashed are such a threat to constitutional democracy.

The split in the Republican Party over the Big Lie is not just about the past; it could also decide the party's future. Joe Biden's victory in the Electoral College vote was close. If only about 43,000 votes in three states (Georgia, Wisconsin, and Arizona) had not gone his way, the outcome would have been completely different. And now Republicans at the state level are rushing to pass laws to make it harder for African Americans to vote, because regardless of the immorality of this request, voter suppression is considered by Republicans to be the key to winning presidential elections. If you can't reach majorities with arguments but only with suppression, that should make you think.

What then is still democratic about the US electoral system?

Michael


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Hello Michael,

A democracy cannot succeed without voluntary cooperation, trust and restraint. Laws do not enforce themselves, and there is a good reason why Supreme Court nominations are now the subject of fierce contention. Although the Supreme Court sometimes put limits on Trump's excesses, it is now firmly in conservative hands for some time after Trump's presidency.

What is a democracy? Not all are USA-style democracies. One can say
the USA is not a democracy at all, but rather a federal system with
a republican form of government.

With a 6-3 majority of "conservative" justices on the USSC, they will
favor a Republican president's policies moreso than a Democrat. Even
if policies pushed by Democrats are constitutional. There are ways to
counter that, with the Congress placing limitations on the USSC. But
that is another topic for another day.

When key figures consistently act in bad faith, laws will not protect in the
end. That is why Trump and the movement he unleashed are such a threat to constitutional democracy.

Technically, the former USSR was a democracy.
Technically, the current Russian Federation is a democracy.

The people in the USA had a voice. An indirect voice, but still
a voice. The people of the USA chose to replace Donald Trump with
Joe Biden. More than 7 million people voted for Biden, and he also
won the Electoral College by a wide margin.

I would prefer direct democracy than what we have now. But at least
this way works. Most of the time.

The split in the Republican Party over the Big Lie is not just about the past; it could also decide the party's future.

Donald Trump *owns* the Republican Party. All Republicans can do
is follow. And hope to survive. In whatever form that might be.

Joe Biden's victory in the Electoral College vote was close.

If only about 43,000 votes in three states (Georgia, Wisconsin, and Arizona)
had not gone his way, the outcome would have been completely different.

One can say the same thing about Jimmy Carter, who received only
49 electoral votes against Ronald Reagan.

Fact of the matter is that Joe Biden won big in the electoral
college, and that same vote was certified by the Congress.

Yeah, that 7 million votes more nationally really hurts Trump's
bogus claim about "massive voter fraud" ...

And now Republicans at the state level are rushing to pass laws to make it harder for African Americans to vote, because regardless of the immorality of this request, voter suppression is considered by Republicans to be the key to winning presidential elections. If you can't reach majorities with arguments but only with suppression, that should make you think.

It's not who votes, but who counts the vote that matters.
First, limit those who can vote. The count, and recount, and
continue to do until you have the winning numbers. That's
the way to do it. No more worrying about "massive voter fraud".

What then is still democratic about the US electoral system?

Who said it was ever democratic?

--Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

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A democracy cannot succeed without voluntary cooperation, trust and restraint.
aws do not enforce themselves, and there is a good reason why Supreme Court no
nations are now the subject of fierce contention. Although the Supreme Court s
etimes put limits on Trump's excesses, it is now firmly in conservative hands r some time after Trump's presidency.

When you spend most of a whole year (and longer in some places) not
enforcing local laws against violent protests, looting, arson, etc.,
against the actions of Group A and Group B, you cannot act all that shocked when Group C decides it must be ok to act like idiots and engage in similar behavior.

ifferent. And now Republicans at the state level are rushing to pass laws to m
e it harder for African Americans to vote, because regardless of the immoralit
of this request, voter suppression is considered by Republicans to be the key
winning presidential elections. If you can't reach majorities with arguments t only with suppression, that should make you think.

The claim that voter integrity laws = voter suppression is a "dog whistle" claim. So far, no one here has been able to prove that it causes any such thing.

Now, when they start turning African Americans away from getting a
state-issued photo ID at the DMV, then I might believe you. Or if Jeff
finally surrenders his photo ID because he "doesn't need it" and is
actually able to prove over time that he really doesn't need it to do
anything legally, I might believe it.


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On 25 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

A democracy cannot succeed without voluntary cooperation, trust and restraint.
aws do not enforce themselves, and there is a good reason why Supreme Co no
nations are now the subject of fierce contention. Although the Supreme C s
etimes put limits on Trump's excesses, it is now firmly in conservative r some time after Trump's presidency.

When you spend most of a whole year (and longer in some places) not enforcing local laws against violent protests, looting, arson, etc., against the actions of Group A and Group B, you cannot act all that shocked when Group C decides it must be ok to act like idiots and engage in similar behavior.

Many, many people have been arrested in connection with these incidents. Characterizing them as not being enforced is incorrect.

ifferent. And now Republicans at the state level are rushing to pass law m
e it harder for African Americans to vote, because regardless of the immoralit
of this request, voter suppression is considered by Republicans to be th
winning presidential elections. If you can't reach majorities with argu t only with suppression, that should make you think.

The claim that voter integrity laws = voter suppression is a "dog
whistle" claim. So far, no one here has been able to prove that it
causes any such thing.

Don't forget that poll taxes and literacy tests were also "voter integrity laws."

Now, when they start turning African Americans away from getting a state-issued photo ID at the DMV, then I might believe you. Or if Jeff finally surrenders his photo ID because he "doesn't need it" and is actually able to prove over time that he really doesn't need it to do anything legally, I might believe it.

There are people who don't have state-issued IDs and get along just fine. I don't have to join them to prove my point. But you go ahead and keep moving those goalposts.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
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There are people who don't have state-issued IDs and get along just fine. I don't have to join them to prove my point. But you go ahead and keep moving those goalposts.

I am not the one who said that you could do without one. You said
specifically that you could. Not moving the goalpost, just using the one
you set up for yourself.


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On 26 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

There are people who don't have state-issued IDs and get along just fine don't have to join them to prove my point. But you go ahead and keep mov those goalposts.

I am not the one who said that you could do without one. You said specifically that you could. Not moving the goalpost, just using the one you set up for yourself.

I said that there are people that could, and do, not that I would choose that for myself. You seem to be confusing me wiht other people.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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