Jeff Thiele wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

And you're mysogynistic, to boot.

Standard Leftie response. Just accuse, with no evidence or argument.

The evidence is that you pointed out something unflattering about the Dem
VP that also has truth to it. That makes you a bad man... a *very* bad man!


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You mean, like you accused VP Harris of "sleeping her way to the top," with no evidence or argument?

Her relationship with Willie Brown who, in turn, gave her a start in
politics, is public knowledge.


* SLMR 2.1a * He's dim, Jed.
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The military is the most basic example. We all pay taxes, ostensibly according to our abilities, and we all benefit from having a military, according to our needs. And then there's the highway system, the postal system, police and fire protection, and on and on.

A government using taxes to provide defense and infrastructure <> socialism.

A government using taxes to redistibute wealth = a government leaning towards/flirting with socialism.


* SLMR 2.1a * We now return to your previously-scheduled topics.
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On 16 Jun 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

And you're mysogynistic, to boot.

Standard Leftie response. Just accuse, with no evidence or argument.

The evidence is that you pointed out something unflattering about the Dem VP that also has truth to it. That makes you a bad man... a *very* bad man!

With, I reiterate, no evidence or argument, the very thing he's accusing "Lefties" of.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Jun 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

You mean, like you accused VP Harris of "sleeping her way to the top," w no evidence or argument?

Her relationship with Willie Brown who, in turn, gave her a start in politics, is public knowledge.

Except it's not all you're making it out to be. Yes, they had a relationship, but there is no evidence that Brown "gave her a start in politics." She did
not work for Brown, and insisted on keeping his name out of her political aspirations.

Have you got anything more concrete to back up this claim?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 Jun 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

The military is the most basic example. We all pay taxes, ostensibly according to our abilities, and we all benefit from having a military, according to our needs. And then there's the highway system, the postal system, police and fire protection, and on and on.

A government using taxes to provide defense and infrastructure <> socialism.
A government using taxes to redistibute wealth = a government leaning towards/flirting with socialism.

Since we don't all pay the same amount in taxes to support the military,
isn't that a redistribution of wealth? That's not something you can conveniently ignore.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Mike Powell wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

The evidence is that you pointed out something unflattering about the
Dem VP that also has truth to it. That makes you a bad man... a *very* bad man!

There's no worse a crime to a Leftie as showing that the Narrative is false.


... You may use this opinion for a two week trial period.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/02/12 (Windows/32)
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@MSGID: <60CA162C.10306.politicf@capitolcityonline.net>
@REPLY: <60CA0A2D.10302.politicf@capitolcityonline.net>
On 16 Jun 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

The military is the most basic example. We all pay taxes, ostensibly according to our abilities, and we all benefit from having a military, according to our needs. And then there's the highway system, the postal
system, police and fire protection, and on and on.

A government using taxes to provide defense and infrastructure <> socialism.
A government using taxes to redistibute wealth = a government leaning towards/flirting with socialism.

Since we don't all pay the same amount in taxes to support the military, isn't that a redistribution of wealth? That's not something you can conveniently ignore.

We pay income taxes based on our income level. Seeing as how you need MONEY to "(use) taxes to provide defense and infrastructure," I am not sure where
you are going there unless you believe people will provide those services
for free, or if you believe that we shouldn't bases taxes on income level?

You are really grasping at a very distant, far out of your reach straw
there.


* SLMR 2.1a * LSD: Virtual Reality without all the fancy hardware
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
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Except it's not all you're making it out to be. Yes, they had a relationship, but there is no evidence that Brown "gave her a start in politics." She did not work for Brown, and insisted on keeping his name out of her political aspirations.

Have you got anything more concrete to back up this claim?

Many people get their start in politics by receiving appointments to
political posts. Living in a city full of politics, I can tell you that
many donors and aspiring politicians covet such posts and get real sore if
they don't get them. My current state senator got their start with a
political appointment.

===

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kamala-harris-affair-willie-brown/

What's True

Harris did date former San Francisco Mayor and State Assembly Speaker Willie Brown for a period of time between 1994 to 1995. In his capacity as speaker, Brown appointed her to two political posts -- first to the California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, and then to the Medical Assistance Commission.

What's False

Although Brown was technically still married during the time period that he dated Harris, he had been estranged from his wife Blanche Brown for more than
a decade. Harris' first, successful run for office in 2003 happened well after the relationship ended, and Harris sought to distance herself from Brown.

===

She did not "work for" Brown, but was appointed to two political posts by
him. So, I stand by my "gave her a start in politics" claim. If she was not involved with him, I doubt she'd have gotten anywhere in politics and
certainly wouldn't be VP right now. She is Monica Lewinsky with political ambition.

Shame on you for thinking I wouldn't find this info pretty easy. It was
easy because I knew it was true and knew where to look.


* SLMR 2.1a * What happens when you get scared half to death.....twice?
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The evidence is that you pointed out something unflattering about the Dem VP that also has truth to it. That makes you a bad man... a *very* bad man!

There's no worse a crime to a Leftie as showing that the Narrative is false.

We will see how he backs around it now that I have given him a link.


* SLMR 2.1a * Math problems? Call 1-800-10x*(24y-3z^2)-(4y^2+10x^2)
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On 17 Jun 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Since we don't all pay the same amount in taxes to support the military, isn't that a redistribution of wealth? That's not something you can conveniently ignore.

We pay income taxes based on our income level. Seeing as how you need MONEY to "(use) taxes to provide defense and infrastructure," I am not sure where you are going there unless you believe people will provide those services for free, or if you believe that we shouldn't bases taxes on income level?

Nevertheless, the fact remains that we all pay different amounts according to our ability. It doesn't matter if I believe it should work differently;
that's the way it works.

You are really grasping at a very distant, far out of your reach straw there.

Not really. You are trying very hard to avoid the obvious.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 17 Jun 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Except it's not all you're making it out to be. Yes, they had a relation but there is no evidence that Brown "gave her a start in politics." She not work for Brown, and insisted on keeping his name out of her politica aspirations.
Have you got anything more concrete to back up this claim?

[...]

She did not "work for" Brown, but was appointed to two political posts by him. So, I stand by my "gave her a start in politics" claim. If she was not involved with him, I doubt she'd have gotten anywhere in politics and certainly wouldn't be VP right now. She is Monica Lewinsky with
political ambition.

Except that she was hired as an assistant DA well prior to her relationship with Brown, and her first election to a political position, DA, happened well after her relationship with Brown. Except for a 6-month leave of absence,
she continued her work as a prosecutor while sitting on the boards Brown appointed her to. So it would seem that Brown did not "give her a start in politics." The path to being elected as DA is serving as assistant DA, not sitting on the Employment insurance Appeals Board and California Medical Assistance Commission.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Mike Powell wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

There's no worse a crime to a Leftie as showing that the Narrative is false.

We will see how he backs around it now that I have given him a link.

Most likely he'll do what the Lefties usually do when presented with hard facts that refute their Narrative: Lie quietly for a while and hope you forget
that those facts exist.

How much of the "COVID, COVID, COVID!" stuff have you seen from the Leftie Propaganda Machine since the Fauci emails were made public?


... Please affix a 29-cent stamp on your next message.
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On 06-17-21 19:12, Jeff Thiele <=-
spoke to Mike Powell about Re: Socialism <=-

Nevertheless, the fact remains that we all pay different amounts
according to our ability. It doesn't matter if I believe it should work differently; that's the way it works.

Actually, it would be great if that was the way it really worked.
However, there are people who make one thousand times the income as you
or I, but who pay less taxes -- even 0 taxes.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:18:44, 20 Jun 2021
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On 20 Jun 2021, Dale Shipp said the following...

Nevertheless, the fact remains that we all pay different amounts according to our ability. It doesn't matter if I believe it should wo differently; that's the way it works.

Actually, it would be great if that was the way it really worked.
However, there are people who make one thousand times the income as you
or I, but who pay less taxes -- even 0 taxes.

Agreed.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Hello Dale,

Nevertheless, the fact remains that we all pay different amounts
according to our ability. It doesn't matter if I believe it should work
differently; that's the way it works.

Actually, it would be great if that was the way it really worked.
However, there are people who make one thousand times the income as you
or I, but who pay less taxes -- even 0 taxes.

HAL 9000.

Arthur C. Clarke was a very gifted writer.

Named his creation after a major US corporation that is so big
it never had to pay any taxes. Did you catch the joke?

Look at the alphabet.
In order.
Notice where the letters H-A-L are located.

H + 1 = I
A + 1 = B
L + 1 = M

"Will I dream?" ~HAL 9000 to Dave

Now you know what happens when you add 1 (human?) to HAL

"The Sentinel" - what a great story.

--Lee

--
I Take A Sheet In The Pool

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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On 25 Jun 2021, Lee Lofaso said the following...

Arthur C. Clarke was a very gifted writer.
Named his creation after a major US corporation that is so big
it never had to pay any taxes. Did you catch the joke?

As an aside, I'm currently reading "The Soul Of A New Machine" by Tracy
Kidder. It follows the development of Data General's 32-bit answer to the DEC VAX, from the point of view of the underdog.

When Data General set out to develop such a machine, they split their
engineers into two teams. One would continue to support and enchance the
16-bit Eclipse/Nova line, while the other would develop the new 32-bit
machine. The engineers for the new project were headquartered in a suite at
the Fountainhead Apartments, and the code name for their project became FHP, for the "Fountainhead Project."

Meanwhile, the Eclipse/Nova team were not content supporting a soon-to-be-obsolete line of computers, and also wanted to develop a 32-bit machine. In keeping with their mandate to support the 16-bit line, they
decided to make a 32-bit machine that was also backward compatible with all
of the 16-bit Eclipse/Nova software. Much the same as HAL added one to each letter in IBM, they subtracted one from each letter in FHP to produce EGO,
and that became the code name for their project.

Unfortunately and yet somewhat understandably, Data General management nixed this idea and the EGO project was no more. The team decided to proceed with it anyway, keeping its details secret from management, and gave this new
endeavor the code name "Eagle." The rest is history.

As a side-side note, I'm reading this because I'm also reading "The PDP-8
Class Project, Or Resoling An Old Machine" by Tom Almy, an obvious play on
the title of "The Soul Of A New Machine." This book details the
implementation of a PDP-8 architecture on an FPGA, and I'm working on just
such a project. My BBS is currently running Mystic on a Raspberry Pi, but in the spirit of the "Cold War Computing" name, I think it would be more appropriate to run it on something a little more appropriate to the Cold War timeframe. Considering that I'm no system designer, the PDP-8 is simple
enough that I think I can do it. As a bonus, the PDP-8 is a 12-bit machine
that stores two 6-bit characters per word, which means that there isn't room
in the character set for lowercase letters... AND THIS WILL BE A PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR ME TO START YELLING AT EVERYONE! MUAHAHAHAHA!

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Jeff,

Arthur C. Clarke was a very gifted writer.
Named his creation after a major US corporation that is so big
it never had to pay any taxes. Did you catch the joke?

As an aside, I'm currently reading "The Soul Of A New Machine" by Tracy Kidder. It follows the development of Data General's 32-bit answer to the DEC
VAX, from the point of view of the underdog.

Former Army intelligence officer, won a Pulitzer for his book,
published in 1981. Definitely on my reading list.

When Data General set out to develop such a machine, they split their engineers into two teams. One would continue to support and enchance the 16-bit Eclipse/Nova line, while the other would develop the new 32-bit machine. The engineers for the new project were headquartered in a suite at
the Fountainhead Apartments, and the code name for their project became FHP,
for the "Fountainhead Project."

Meanwhile, the Eclipse/Nova team were not content supporting a soon-to-be-obsolete line of computers, and also wanted to develop a 32-bit machine. In keeping with their mandate to support the 16-bit line, they decided to make a 32-bit machine that was also backward compatible with all
of the 16-bit Eclipse/Nova software. Much the same as HAL added one to each
letter in IBM, they subtracted one from each letter in FHP to produce EGO, and that became the code name for their project.

Unfortunately and yet somewhat understandably, Data General management nixed
this idea and the EGO project was no more. The team decided to proceed with
it anyway, keeping its details secret from management, and gave this new endeavor the code name "Eagle." The rest is history.

Should be on everyone's reading list.

As a side-side note, I'm reading this because I'm also reading "The PDP-8 Class Project, Or Resoling An Old Machine" by Tom Almy, an obvious play on the title of "The Soul Of A New Machine." This book details the implementation of a PDP-8 architecture on an FPGA, and I'm working on just such a project.

Following in the footsteps of giants?

My BBS is currently running Mystic on a Raspberry Pi, but in
the spirit of the "Cold War Computing" name, I think it would be more appropriate to run it on something a little more appropriate to the Cold War
timeframe. Considering that I'm no system designer, the PDP-8 is simple enough that I think I can do it. As a bonus, the PDP-8 is a 12-bit machine that stores two 6-bit characters per word, which means that there isn't room
in the character set for lowercase letters... AND THIS WILL BE A PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR ME TO START YELLING AT EVERYONE! MUAHAHAHAHA!

ARE YOU DEAF? NOBODY CAN SHOUT LOUDER THAN THE DONALD! NOBODY!

--LEE

--
Popular vote!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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On 25 Jun 2021, Lee Lofaso said the following...

As an aside, I'm currently reading "The Soul Of A New Machine" by Tra Kidder. It follows the development of Data General's 32-bit answer to DEC
VAX, from the point of view of the underdog.

Former Army intelligence officer, won a Pulitzer for his book,
published in 1981. Definitely on my reading list.

It's a good one.

Unfortunately and yet somewhat understandably, Data General managemen nixed
this idea and the EGO project was no more. The team decided to procee with
it anyway, keeping its details secret from management, and gave this endeavor the code name "Eagle." The rest is history.

Ironically, Edson DeCastro, the founder and CEO of Data General who nixed the EGO project, was the project leader of the PDP-8 team at DEC, and left DEC to form Data General when DEC management turned down his idea for a 16-bit
"PDP-X" computer. The "PDP-X" became the Data General Nova, and DEC developed their own 16-bit machine, the PDP-11.

So I guess we're still talking about politics. Office politics, and over 50+ years old at that, but still politics.

As a side-side note, I'm reading this because I'm also reading "The P Class Project, Or Resoling An Old Machine" by Tom Almy, an obvious pl the title of "The Soul Of A New Machine." This book details the implementation of a PDP-8 architecture on an FPGA, and I'm working on such a project.

Following in the footsteps of giants?

I'd like to think so, but maybe more in their shadow. Imagine what those guys could have done with FPGAs and other modern hardware! While they had to sort through tens of thousands of wire-wrapped signals, I can just change a line
of code, re-synthesize, and upload the new design. Plus, I'm just
implementing their proven design, not creating a new design myself.

But still... It's a great learning experience and I'm having a lot of fun
with it.

enough that I think I can do it. As a bonus, the PDP-8 is a 12-bit ma that stores two 6-bit characters per word, which means that there isn room
in the character set for lowercase letters... AND THIS WILL BE A PERF LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR ME TO START YELLING AT EVERYONE! MUAHAHAHAHA!

ARE YOU DEAF? NOBODY CAN SHOUT LOUDER THAN THE DONALD! NOBODY!

ONE CAN TRY! ;-)

JEFF.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

When I look up "Nordic model," what is displayed mentions "capitalism," "social programs," and "wealth redistribution." While that last one is a red flag, to me, of a socialist tendency, no where did the article mention "socialism."

That's just it. While y'all use the word socialism as a pejorative, you don't understand what it really means. I.e. all the above, and then some.

If you were taught unbiased political science at school, you'd have a better understanding of how bad your society is for everyone but the filthy rich, and what enormous benefits it would be for you if you abandoned your corporate capitalism and tried social capitalism for a change.



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Look at you? Talking about socialism the way you are. Sweden is in fact, very pro-capitalism, but does have redistribution through taxes. Personal income is
taxed at a rate of 61.85 percent, plus a 7 percent social security tax rate fo
employees. On top of these taxes, Sweden also has
a 25 percent consumption tax.

Yes, they figured out that, without capitalist practicies, there would not
be enough money-exchanges to be taxed to help pay for all of their social programs. They are a mostly homogeneous society, too, which makes things
like this easier on them.


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Sweden is in fact, very pro-capitalism,

Exactly. That's obviously what some of you can't understand about *real* so
alism.

That is not *real* socialism. Many in the west may point to your country
and think it is "socialist" but it is not. Do they have lots of social programs? Yes. Do they get taxed out the rear to pay for them? Yes.

When I look up "Nordic model," what is displayed mentions "capitalism,"
"social programs," and "wealth redistribution." While that last one is a
red flag, to me, of a socialist tendency, no where did the article mention "socialism."

There are apparently many Americans who are not willing enough to pay such
high taxes in order to have such social programs. Some of them might not be
so much against it if they thought that our Federal Government, no matter who is in charge, could be trusted to administer such programs.

Instead, our government keeps spending our tax dollars on extra bureaucracy to administer programs and support the programs and the government in general (much more than necessary), and to support their "pay for play" political allies who get their hands in it. All the while, they try to keep coming back to us for more money. Meanwhile, the people who need the services are never properly served.

I believe we do have some states that could pull things like this off at a state level. Other states, like mine, have the same "pay for play" machine that backs the party usually in charge of the Governor's Office. They fully expect to get their "pay" or that Governor won't last long.


* SLMR 2.1a * Isn't this where....
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When I look up "Nordic model," what is displayed mentions "capitalism "social programs," and "wealth redistribution." While that last one red flag, to me, of a socialist tendency, no where did the article me "socialism."

That's just it. While y'all use the word socialism as a pejorative,
you don't understand what it really means. I.e. all the above, and then some.

Sorry but your country isn't socalist and social programs and a welfare state isn't socialism. Socialism is when the government owns the means of production. Like Venezuela. High tax/high services is simply that.

TL;DR
Social programs != socialism

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On 30 Jan 2022, Doug McComber said the following...

Sorry but your country isn't socalist and social programs and a welfare state isn't socialism. Socialism is when the government owns the means
of production. Like Venezuela. High tax/high services is simply that.

Doug! My man! Could you *please* preach this message to the US conservatives who scream "Socialism!" whenever higher taxes or increased social programs
are proposed? PLEASE??? They are in desperate need of being told this by someone they trust. Lord knows I've tried, but I just get called a
"socialist" for pointing out what socialism is and isn't.

Jeff.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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When I look up "Nordic model," what is displayed mentions "capitalism," >MP> "social programs," and "wealth redistribution." While that last one is a >MP> red flag, to me, of a socialist tendency, no where did the article mention >MP> "socialism."

That's just it. While y'all use the word socialism as a pejorative, you don't >understand what it really means. I.e. all the above, and then some.

No, I just don't understand what it means when defined by you.

I am sure there are several here in the states who don't use socialist as a pejorative that would read the description of Nordic Model and see it as
not being socialist enough for them to call it "socialism."

A couple of years ago, one of our congress people referred to another one
of the Nordic countries as "socialist." Their head-of-state was quick to correct the error and point out that their country is not socialist. I am willing to take his word for it over yours.

If you were taught unbiased political science at school, you'd have a bette
understanding of how bad your society is for everyone but the filthy rich, and
hat enormous benefits it would be for you if you abandoned your corporate capi
lism and tried social capitalism for a change.

I have already explained to you why many of us, who might think those
programs are nice, would not trust our federal government to ever
administer them. If I was younger, I might find them tempting also. But I
am not. I do not want to have to work the rest of my life, paying heavier taxes, so that someone else who is not contributing *by choice* benefits
from my employment.

You can call that selfish, but I call it practical. I want to enjoy my old age, not die working.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Tryin' is the first step towards failure." - Homer
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I do not want to have to work the rest of my life, paying heavier
taxes, so that someone else who is not contributing *by choice* benefits from my employment.

Why would he, who's had the misfortune to fall for all the glory words offered as a way to the "American Dream" and failed, not have to leave his home, while the culprits took your tax money to bail out all the criminals, get free? Yeah...

-- Medicare for all? No thanks, I don't want to pay for other people's health care.

-- I like private insurance, where I pay for other people's health care *AND* for the salaries of bloodsucking middlemen whose entire purpose is telling me *NO* when I need medical care.

-- No way I'll spend 4% of my salary on that socialist crap, I'd rather spend 20% of my salary on a *free choice* private, but non-socialist shit.

You can call that selfish, but I call it practical. I want to enjoy my old
age, not die working.

I can assure you, it's been more than a century since the last worker in a Nordic country died working. We all enjoy our retirement funds, administered by our government, and thusly protected from any Wall Street, money-grabbing, criminal (and yet unpunished) action. YMMV



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