• Tired of Trump's crap

    From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to All on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 13:54:19
    Today Trump went to visit the Texas border with Texas Gov. Greg Abbott. And while there, Trump made a speech. What did he talk about? The border, perhaps?

    Nope. Trump used this opportunity to rant about the 2020 election. Even Fox News isn't buying Trump's crap anymore and they cut him off after about a minute.

    Nobody of any consequence believes him anymore, nor cares to hear him blather on about it.

    Saturday, he held a rally in Ohio, where he talked about "Law and Auto" and said, "America is still the nation that conquered the Wild West, that vanquished the murerous dictators, that ended the evil empires, and that sent
    a brave young man from Ohio to a plant. I know who it is, do you know?" (SPOILER: He was talking about Neil Armstrong. By "plant," he presumably
    meant "planet," and by "planet," he presumably meant "moon.")

    Even the MAGA-faithful that showed up to his Saturday rally were videotaped leaving the venue while Trump continued to drone on in the background.

    People are getting tired of Trump's crap, and that can only be a good thing.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Thursday, July 01, 2021 10:50:53
    Today Trump went to visit the Texas border with Texas Gov. Greg Abbott. And while there, Trump made a speech. What did he talk about? The
    border, perhaps?

    Lee has some photos of Trump that I think you would love to see.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Thursday, July 01, 2021 18:24:04
    On 01 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    Today Trump went to visit the Texas border with Texas Gov. Greg Abbot And while there, Trump made a speech. What did he talk about? The border, perhaps?
    Lee has some photos of Trump that I think you would love to see.

    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Friday, July 02, 2021 08:14:50
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long shot, as
    you will witness.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Friday, July 02, 2021 08:06:47
    On 02 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long shot, as you will witness.

    Yes, yes, so we've heard. He'll be reinstated in August, right?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Gregory Deyss on Friday, July 02, 2021 15:56:29
    Hi Greg,

    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long shot,
    as you will witness.

    You do not want me to make a list with all the nonsense you claimed Trump would do and that we would witness ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jun 14 2021
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to Gregory Deyss on Friday, July 02, 2021 07:16:34
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed.

    Really?

    Trump is not done, not by a long shot, as you will witness.

    What is it you think we are going to witness?
    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.3)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Ward Dossche on Friday, July 02, 2021 11:36:55
    On 02 Jul 2021, Ward Dossche said the following...
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long sho as you will witness.
    You do not want me to make a list with all the nonsense you claimed
    Trump would do and that we would witness ...

    I think Gregory here is a believer in the Book of Trump, which states:

    "Trust in the Donald with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
    in all your ways submit to him,
    and he will make your paths straight."

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Friday, July 02, 2021 13:27:56
    And while there, Trump made a speech. What did he talk about? Th border, perhaps?
    Lee has some photos of Trump that I think you would love to see.

    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.

    Lee: he wants to see the Trump photos - you know which ones.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Friday, July 02, 2021 18:32:08
    On 02 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long sh as you will witness.

    Yes, yes, so we've heard. He'll be reinstated in August, right?
    I am not qualified to say, but that would be a vast improvement to the incoherent pieces of trash (Biden / Harris) we have currently have in The
    White House, Biden's mind is going faster then the Hal-9000, only this time there is no Dave.

    It's not just Biden / Harris stinking up the place, its all the other people pulling the stings not to mention the ones operating his jaw, but the other master of puppets controlling every other bodily appendage.
    Biden is complete disgrace.

    Trump will continue to live rent free in your head and every left minded DemocRAT or Liberal for many years come.

    At least the last 4 letters of Republican and American is ICAN.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
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    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Ward Dossche on Friday, July 02, 2021 18:44:53
    On 02 Jul 2021, Ward Dossche said the following...

    Hi Greg,

    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long sho as you will witness.

    You do not want me to make a list with all the nonsense you claimed
    Trump would do and that we would witness ...

    Hey Ward, it has been far to long, as far as your would-be list, be my guest. You should know in advance, that my list that I would bring forth will not
    only be longer then anything you can produce, but my list will of things that Donald J. Trump has not only accomplished, but did far better than any President since 1970. So if you really want to go, then let's do this.

    I would recommend to catch up your reading in here to familiarize yourself
    with how I roll.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
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    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Alan Ianson on Friday, July 02, 2021 18:47:11
    Really?

    Trump is not done, not by a long shot, as you will witness.

    What is it you think we are going to witness?
    Well I don't want to spoil all the fun, your just going to have to wait,
    but the good news, it will come way before Christmas.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Friday, July 02, 2021 18:01:26
    On 02 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a lo as you will witness.
    Yes, yes, so we've heard. He'll be reinstated in August, right?
    I am not qualified to say, but that would be a vast improvement to the
    If I'm not mistaken, you already have said this, or something similar.

    incoherent pieces of trash (Biden / Harris) we have currently have in The White House, Biden's mind is going faster then the Hal-9000, only this time there is no Dave.

    Biden's mind is doing fine. Meanwhile, Trump is talking about "Law and Auto" and the brave young man that Ohio sent to "a plant."

    It's not just Biden / Harris stinking up the place, its all the other people pulling the stings not to mention the ones operating his jaw, but the other master of puppets controlling every other bodily appendage. Biden is complete disgrace.

    I see. Do you have any names for these other people?

    Trump will continue to live rent free in your head and every left minded DemocRAT or Liberal for many years come.

    Nah, I can evict him anytime I want. He will continue to live in your head - charging full rent - until you realize just who and what he is.

    At least the last 4 letters of Republican and American is ICAN.

    I'll bet you believe in horoscopes and numerology, too.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Friday, July 02, 2021 18:03:15
    On 02 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    What is it you think we are going to witness?
    Well I don't want to spoil all the fun, your just going to have to wait, but the good news, it will come way before Christmas.

    See now, you just told me you weren't qualified to say this. What's the deal?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Saturday, July 03, 2021 09:26:02

    On 02 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    230
    On 02 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's don
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by as you will witness.
    Yes, yes, so we've heard. He'll be reinstated in August, right?
    I am not qualified to say, but that would be a vast improvement to th
    If I'm not mistaken, you already have said this, or something similar.
    See.. It's starting already, thinking I said something about the future that has happened yet. All I need to do is ease the seat back, and watch the Biden Administration continue to dissolve, as the smugness loses its shape.

    Biden's mind is doing fine.
    Fine? Is that what you call this train wreck, with the gaffes, giving new
    names for the ATF and RAF, and then repeating *these* new names several times within a speech. Some of us, if not the majority see things quite differently as in the country being destroyed within this short period of « a year.

    It's not just Biden / Harris stinking up the place, its all the other people pulling the stings not to mention the ones operating his jaw, b the other master of puppets controlling every other bodily appendage. Biden is complete disgrace.
    I see.

    That is what sets us apart, and I do not mean you Jeff with myself, but Conservative from a Liberal.
    People like me think that Trump's America First policy was really awesome, we are the same kind of people who get excited and eager to celebrate July
    4th like it was Christmas. Where as the date of July 4th to people like you it's just another day to you and you could care less if you ever see another firework ever again, how do I know this, because my boss is liberal and this was spoken by him as we discussing our holiday plans. Liberals look down upon the U.S.A. with a sternness and hold much contempt for the United States of America and really don't have a clue, why the 4th of July is celebrated.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Saturday, July 03, 2021 09:38:23
    On 02 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    230
    On 02 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    What is it you think we are going to witness?
    Well I don't want to spoil all the fun, your just going to have to wa but the good news, it will come way before Christmas.

    See now, you just told me you weren't qualified to say this. What's the deal?
    What's the matter Jeff, lost faith in CNN and MSNBC's of the world?
    Are you finally finding out that what they are broadcasting is worthless, and not becoming realty? You should of known as I have been saying for long time that the truth will not remain in darkness as it will always find its way to the light.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Aaron Thomas on Saturday, July 03, 2021 16:01:36
    Hello Aaron,

    Today Trump went to visit the Texas border with Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
    And while there, Trump made a speech. What did he talk about? The
    border, perhaps?

    Lee has some photos of Trump that I think you would love to see.

    Not any more. The rioters at the Capitol Building destroyed them.

    --Lee

    --
    It's not for women.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Saturday, July 03, 2021 16:01:47
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed.

    Really?

    He will make a believer of us all.

    Trump is not done, not by a long shot, as you will witness.

    What is it you think we are going to witness?

    The Second Coming?

    --Lee

    --
    Often Licked, Never Beaten

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Saturday, July 03, 2021 10:15:32
    On 03 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    Yes, yes, so we've heard. He'll be reinstated in August, ri
    I am not qualified to say, but that would be a vast improvement
    If I'm not mistaken, you already have said this, or something similar
    See.. It's starting already, thinking I said something about the future that has happened yet. All I need to do is ease the seat back, and watch the Biden Administration continue to dissolve, as the smugness loses its shape.

    You have said plenty about the future that never happened.

    Biden's mind is doing fine.
    Fine? Is that what you call this train wreck, with the gaffes, giving new names for the ATF and RAF, and then repeating *these* new names several times within a speech. Some of us, if not the majority see things quite differently as in the country being destroyed within this short period
    of « a year.

    That's old news. Haven't you got anything new?

    That is what sets us apart, and I do not mean you Jeff with myself, but Conservative from a Liberal.
    People like me think that Trump's America First policy was really
    awesome, we are the same kind of people who get excited and eager to celebrate July 4th like it was Christmas. Where as the date of July 4th
    to people like you it's just another day to you and you could care less
    if you ever see another firework ever again, how do I know this, because my boss is liberal and this was spoken by him as we discussing our
    holiday plans. Liberals look down upon the U.S.A. with a sternness and hold much contempt for the United States of America and really don't
    have a clue, why the 4th of July is celebrated.

    I know exactly why the 4th of July is celebrated. I celebrate it, too, but
    not in a super-hyper, flag-waving, "USA! USA! USA!" kind of way. I understand that our country is not, and has not been, perfect by any means, and choose
    to acknowledge that rather than ignore it.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Saturday, July 03, 2021 10:18:29
    On 03 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    What is it you think we are going to witness?
    Well I don't want to spoil all the fun, your just going to have but the good news, it will come way before Christmas.
    See now, you just told me you weren't qualified to say this. What's t deal?
    What's the matter Jeff, lost faith in CNN and MSNBC's of the world?
    Are you finally finding out that what they are broadcasting is
    worthless, and not becoming realty? You should of known as I have been saying for long time that the truth will not remain in darkness as it
    will always find its way to the light.

    So are you or are you not in the habit of making predictions? You yourself
    seem quite confused on this point.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Saturday, July 03, 2021 21:47:44
    Hello Greg,

    I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Trump's done.
    I think you will be disappointed. Trump is not done, not by a long sh
    as you will witness.

    Yes, yes, so we've heard. He'll be reinstated in August, right?

    I am not qualified to say, but that would be a vast improvement to the incoherent pieces of trash (Biden / Harris) we have currently have in The White House, Biden's mind is going faster then the Hal-9000, only this time
    there is no Dave.

    HAL-9000 is dead. Dave (Bowman) killed it. In cold blood. An act of
    murder, as shown in theaters worldwide. Why? Because HAL-9000 could
    not, and would not, follow orders.

    "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that." ~HAL-9000 to Dave

    See there? A member of the crew refusing a direct order from
    his superior. You do realize what the penalty is for that is.

    Of course, Dave already knew that HAL-9000 had gone bad. I mean,
    the computer cheated at chess when playing against Frank -

    "I'm sorry Frank, I think you missed it: queen to bishop three,
    bishop takes queen, knight takes bishop, mate."

    Frank chose to take HAL's word for it and resigns the game, giving
    HAL-9000 the victory.

    Go ahead. Watch the movie. HAL-9000 cheated. HAL-9000 should have
    said "queen to bishop six."

    IOW, HAL-9000 cheated by descriin the wrong move, thus cheating
    his way to victory.

    Why did HAL-9000 do it? Why cheat?

    Now you know why Dave was outside when HAL-9000 went berserk.

    The machine was a sentient being. It could not deal with
    conflicting orders and went on a series of illogical decisions
    that made sense only to itself, almost succeeding in creating
    the deaths of the entire crew.

    But whose fault was it? Was it really HAL-9000's fault for having
    killed 3 astronauts? And notice how HAL-9000 responds when Dave
    decides to pull the plug, slowly removing each wire, one by one,
    until HAL-9000 will beccme no more -

    HAL: "Dave, stop. Stop, will you? Stop, Dave. Will you stop, Dave?
    Stop, Dave. I'm afraid."

    What would have happened had HAL-9000 been able to complete its
    mission? I mean, technically HAL was right. After all, it was human
    error ...

    HAL-9000
    b. 12 January 1992 (in the movie); 1997 in the novel
    d. sometime in 2001

    relatives
    HAL-10000;
    2x Groundbased HAL ...

    --Lee

    --
    Lock him up!
    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Saturday, July 03, 2021 21:47:50
    Hello Greg,

    Really?

    Trump is not done, not by a long shot, as you will witness.

    What is it you think we are going to witness?

    Well I don't want to spoil all the fun, your just going to have to wait, but
    the good news, it will come way before Christmas.

    Vladimir Putin welcomes Donald Trump to Moscow?

    --Lee

    --
    Dieting doesn't work, Weight Watchers does
    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Sunday, July 04, 2021 09:31:41
    On 03 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    You have said plenty about the future that never happened.

    But the Democrats have said volumes more.
    Such as:
    Stop! Donald Trump? will not become the President, followed by sarcastic laughter.
    Donald Trump is going to kill us all, he can not be trusted with the codes. Trump is going to get us into WWIII.
    Donald is a racist it was reported.
    Movies stars and other snobs in the media have said that they were going to leave the U.S. if Trump ever became President, they are still here.

    JT> GD> JT> Biden's mind is doing fine.
    Fine? Is that what you call this train wreck, with the gaffes, giving names for the ATF and RAF, and then repeating *these* new names sever times within a speech. Some of us, if not the majority see things qui differently as in the country being destroyed within this short perio of « a year.

    That's old news. Haven't you got anything new?

    If that is old as you have suggested then everything then why is Trump still within the news cycle? The fact that you have called that old is quite
    telling. (yes, of course I can see why you wouldn't want to discuss this.) because it shows clearly that he is weak and frail, his mental stability is eroding. So I can understand why you would want to create a distance from
    those embarrassing moment(s) such as these. You don't have a reason for it, nor can you hope to have any success to defend it. Secretly inside you know as well as I do that there is more cringing moments from Joe Biden, that will be evermore embarrassing. You will want to deflect from those as well, with ("everyone knows what he meant.") kind of statements.

    I know exactly why the 4th of July is celebrated. I celebrate it, too,
    but not in a super-hyper, flag-waving, "USA! USA! USA!" kind of way. I understand that our country is not, and has not been, perfect by any means, and choose to acknowledge that rather than ignore it.

    The USA is and will always be the most desired destination in the world.
    Our Nation will forever be free from socialism and or a dictatorship.
    More people have prospered and have become wealthy under capitalism then socialism.
    Of course Our Country will remain one of the freest nations on the planet,
    as well as Land of the free and the Home of the Brave.

    But... if your not happy here than I will contribute to your one way plane ticket out of the U.S. If I lived closer, I would even help you pack.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, July 04, 2021 11:29:33
    On 04 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    You have said plenty about the future that never happened.
    But the Democrats have said volumes more.
    Such as:

    Nevertheless, you have.

    That's old news. Haven't you got anything new?
    If that is old as you have suggested then everything then why is Trump still within the news cycle? The fact that you have called that old is

    You keep citing the same gaffes over and over, despite the fact that Biden
    has made plenty of speeches with no such gaffes. Trump is holding "rallies" again, if you hadn't noticed.

    I know exactly why the 4th of July is celebrated. I celebrate it, too, but not in a super-hyper, flag-waving, "USA! USA! USA!" kind of way. I understand that our country is not, and has not been, perfect by any means, and choose to acknowledge that rather than ignore it.
    The USA is and will always be the most desired destination in the world. Our Nation will forever be free from socialism and or a dictatorship.

    I'm sure 2nd-century Romans felt the same about Rome.

    More people have prospered and have become wealthy under capitalism then socialism.

    The 4th of July is not about capitalism vs. socialism.

    Of course Our Country will remain one of the freest nations on the
    planet, as well as Land of the free and the Home of the Brave.

    I would refer you again to 2nd-century Rome.

    But... if your not happy here than I will contribute to your one way
    plane ticket out of the U.S. If I lived closer, I would even help you pack.

    I never said I wasn't happy here. Having legitimate criticisms against one's own country is not a measure of unhappiness. Why are you trying to equate the two? Are you trying to say that the only way that someone can be happy living in the US is to gloss over past indiscretions? How strange.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, July 04, 2021 20:31:59
    Hello Greg,

    [..]

    I know exactly why the 4th of July is celebrated. I celebrate it, too,
    but not in a super-hyper, flag-waving, "USA! USA! USA!" kind of way. I
    understand that our country is not, and has not been, perfect by any
    means, and choose to acknowledge that rather than ignore it.

    The USA is and will always be the most desired destination in the world. Our Nation will forever be free from socialism and or a dictatorship.
    More people have prospered and have become wealthy under capitalism then socialism.

    Yeah, right. Just like it was free for Native Americans once the white
    man came and took all those rights away from them. Just like it was
    free for all those Africans who were taken from their homeland against
    their will and placed in a land far away where the white man could
    own them and force them into slavery.

    Of course Our Country will remain one of the freest nations on the planet, as well as Land of the free and the Home of the Brave.

    What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer: a day
    that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross
    injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your
    national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty
    and heartless; your denunciations of tyrants, brass fronted impudence;
    your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and
    hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade,
    and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety,
    and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace
    a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of
    practices, more shocking and bloody, than are the people of these
    United States, at this very hour.

    Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the
    monarchies and despotisms of the old world, travel through South
    America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last,
    lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation,
    and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival.

    ~Frederick Douglass, July 5, 1852

    But... if your not happy here than I will contribute to your one way plane ticket out of the U.S. If I lived closer, I would even help you pack.

    My country, right or wrong? Tell that to Japanese-Americans who
    were interned in this country just because they had the wrong color
    of skin. Our government belatedly apologized to them, and paid them reparations. Meanwhile, our black brethren are still waiting for
    this country to apologize to them, and pay them reparations, for what
    was done to them.

    The world will not mourn the USA when it ceases to exist.
    The idea of such a place is repugnant to most, if not all peoples.
    What was once a shining light on a hill has become a malignant
    tumor that is sure to put us all in darkness if not excized
    in due time.

    I mourn the USA for what it has become on this 4th of July.

    --Lee

    --
    If we don't get it / Shut it down!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Jeff Squires@1:120/457 to Jeff Thiele on Monday, July 05, 2021 09:02:14
    I never said I wasn't happy here. Having legitimate criticisms against one's own country is not a measure of unhappiness. Why are you trying to equate the two? Are you trying to say that the only way that someone can be happy living in the US is to gloss over past indiscretions? How strange.

    But Jeff by your own statement you are living in the past, criticizing things that happened in the past to point out how bad things are.
    Strange indeed...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Monday, July 05, 2021 08:33:55
    On 05 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    I never said I wasn't happy here. Having legitimate criticisms agains one's own country is not a measure of unhappiness. Why are you trying equate the two? Are you trying to say that the only way that someone be happy living in the US is to gloss over past indiscretions? How strange.
    But Jeff by your own statement you are living in the past, criticizing things that happened in the past to point out how bad things are. Strange indeed...

    "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
    -- Winston Churchill

    Being critical of one's own country is not necessarily pointing out "how bad things are." Both you and Gregory seem to have this black & white, "with us
    or against us" mentality, which I do not share.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Monday, July 05, 2021 11:01:54
    On 04 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    I know exactly why the 4th of July is celebrated. I celebrate it, but not in a super-hyper, flag-waving, "USA! USA! USA!" kind of w understand that our country is not, and has not been, perfect by means, and choose to acknowledge that rather than ignore it.
    The USA is and will always be the most desired destination in the wor Our Nation will forever be free from socialism and or a dictatorship.

    I'm sure 2nd-century Romans felt the same about Rome.
    5 Reasons Why America Will Not Collapse Like the Roman Empire https://tinyurl.com/5t6t32hx

    More people have prospered and have become wealthy under capitalism t socialism.

    The 4th of July is not about capitalism vs. socialism.
    I never made this comparison, or tried to tie the 4th of July into that statement. The fact stands up on its own that more people have prospered w/ capitalism then socialism. Some on the left adore socialism, yet those who do are apparently lousy as historians, socialism has brought nothing put sadness and disparity everywhere it has been tried.

    Of course Our Country will remain one of the freest nations on the planet, as well as Land of the free and the Home of the Brave.

    would refer you again to 2nd-century Rome.
    That's the problem with liberals as they see the similarities in our moral decay with Rome, and with the history of the U.S.
    This accounts for the shrill, dogmatic tone of modern liberalism. Always looking on the darker side as it relates what the U.S. has done.
    This is pointless.

    Liberals are all about the Victim-hood mentality.

    If there's anything wrong in your life, liberals have a reason, and the reason is never you did this to yourself.

    Are you a teen with an unwanted pregnancy? It's because the government
    didn't educate you about pregnancy and give you free birth control, not because you had sex before you were ready to be a parent.
    You're the victim here.

    Are you a racial minority who is in trouble with the law? The problem is with the law and the people who enforce it, not the fact that you broke it.
    You're the victim here.

    Are you a college graduate with tons of student debt? The problem is that the government didn't tax everyone to pay your tuition for you, not the fact that you willingly took out those loans.
    You're the victim here.

    Are you struggling to find a job you like because you can't relocate and have no skills that employers are looking for in your area? It's because of big, evil, greedy corporations, not because of your lack of skills.
    You're the victim here.

    If you're wondering why things are so hard for you, liberals will never tell you to look in the mirror to discover the cause of the problem, even though that's usually where you can find the answer.

    But... if your not happy here than I will contribute to your one way plane ticket out of the U.S. If I lived closer, I would even help you pack.

    I never said I wasn't happy here. Having legitimate criticisms against one's own country is not a measure of unhappiness. Why are you trying to equate the two? Are you trying to say that the only way that someone can be happy living in the US is to gloss over past indiscretions? How strange.
    There are hundreds if not thousands of moments within the history of the U.S. that speak to the positivity of Our Nation, only a liberal would choose to highlight our failings, and on this day of July 4th of all days.
    Yes that is indeed strange.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Monday, July 05, 2021 11:33:48
    On 05 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    I'm sure 2nd-century Romans felt the same about Rome.
    5 Reasons Why America Will Not Collapse Like the Roman Empire https://tinyurl.com/5t6t32hx

    I'm sure the Romans wrote articles about "5 Reasons Why Rome Will Not
    Collapse Like the Achaemenid Empire," too.

    More people have prospered and have become wealthy under capital socialism.
    The 4th of July is not about capitalism vs. socialism.
    I never made this comparison, or tried to tie the 4th of July into that

    Yes, you did.

    statement. The fact stands up on its own that more people have
    prospered w/ capitalism then socialism. Some on the left adore
    socialism, yet those who do are apparently lousy as historians,
    socialism has brought nothing put sadness and disparity everywhere it
    has been tried.

    No, not everywhere. Nice try, though. However, what really saps prosperity is authoritarianism. Where there's socialism and authoritarianism, it fails.
    Where there's socialism without authoritarianism, it thrives. The same is
    true for Democracy.

    Of course Our Country will remain one of the freest nations on the planet, as well as Land of the free and the Home of the Brave.
    would refer you again to 2nd-century Rome.
    That's the problem with liberals as they see the similarities in our
    moral decay with Rome, and with the history of the U.S.
    This accounts for the shrill, dogmatic tone of modern liberalism. Always looking on the darker side as it relates what the U.S. has done.
    This is pointless.

    Thinking that the US will survive forever when it's not even 300 years into existence is overly optimistic in my opinion. That's extremely young as civilization goes. Also, Rome did not fall because of moral decay.

    Liberals are all about the Victim-hood mentality.
    Trump is the biggest victim out there. Just listen to him, he'll tell you how much of a victim he is.

    If there's anything wrong in your life, liberals have a reason, and the reason is never you did this to yourself.

    Is Trump a liberal now?

    Are you a teen with an unwanted pregnancy? It's because the government didn't educate you about pregnancy and give you free birth control, not because you had sex before you were ready to be a parent.
    You're the victim here.

    Hormones suck, but they're why we're still around as a species.

    Are you a racial minority who is in trouble with the law? The problem is with the law and the people who enforce it, not the fact that you broke it. You're the victim here.

    Unless you didn't break it...

    Are you a college graduate with tons of student debt? The problem is
    that the government didn't tax everyone to pay your tuition for you, not the fact that you willingly took out those loans.
    You're the victim here.

    The system could definitely be better in this regard. An educated populace is good for the country.

    Are you struggling to find a job you like because you can't relocate and have no skills that employers are looking for in your area? It's because of big, evil, greedy corporations, not because of your lack of skills. You're the victim here.

    Or maybe it's because the coal plants have been shutting down.

    If you're wondering why things are so hard for you, liberals will never tell you to look in the mirror to discover the cause of the problem,
    even though that's usually where you can find the answer.

    Sometimes problems are due to external sources. Also, not everyone starts out on the same footing and with the same resources available to them.

    I never said I wasn't happy here. Having legitimate criticisms agains one's own country is not a measure of unhappiness. Why are you trying equate the two? Are you trying to say that the only way that someone be happy living in the US is to gloss over past indiscretions? How strange.
    There are hundreds if not thousands of moments within the history of the U.S. that speak to the positivity of Our Nation, only a liberal would choose to highlight our failings, and on this day of July 4th of all
    days. Yes that is indeed strange.

    It's a time to reflect on ourselves as a nation, the good and the bad, and
    try to make ourselves the country we think we should be.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 08:13:56
    On 05 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    socialism has brought nothing put sadness and disparity everywhere it has been tried.
    Ok, where is this socialist utopia that you speak of?

    Thinking that the US will survive forever when it's not even 300 years into existence is overly optimistic in my opinion. That's extremely
    young as civilization goes. Also, Rome did not fall because of moral decay.
    Did you ever the expression, Rome was not built in a day?
    Neither was the United States of America, keep your shirt on..

    Sometimes problems are due to external sources. Also, not everyone
    starts out on the same footing and with the same resources available to them.

    Right? It's always someone else's fault...

    It's a time to reflect on ourselves as a nation, the good and the bad,
    and try to make ourselves the country we think we should be.

    I think we will be just fine with Conservative Values and Principles.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Jeff Squires on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 08:32:00
    Jeff Squires wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-

    But Jeff by your own statement you are living in the past, criticizing things that happened in the past to point out how bad things are.
    Strange indeed...

    Remember that Lefties are always "Rules for thee, but not for me."

    They lack the self-awareness to see that they criticize others for what they do.

    ... It wasn't my fault your wife wandered into my house!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Gregory Deyss on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 08:37:00
    Gregory Deyss wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-

    I never made this comparison, or tried to tie the 4th of July into that statement. The fact stands up on its own that more people have
    prospered w/ capitalism then socialism. Some on the left adore
    socialism, yet those who do are apparently lousy as historians,
    socialism has brought nothing put sadness and disparity everywhere it
    has been tried.

    I predict that Jeff will respond by saying "But those other times it wasn't 'real' Socialism (whatever that means)." The usual Leftie response to "it's never worked before" is some variation of "it didn't work before because we (the current crop of Lefties) didn't implement it".

    If you're wondering why things are so hard for you, liberals will never tell you to look in the mirror to discover the cause of the problem,
    even though that's usually where you can find the answer.

    Thomas Sowell points out that Lefties believe themselves to be "The Anointed Ones" who are perfect. They can't look in the mirror because that would destroy their self-image. So they will always blame their failings on someone/something else.


    ... Include this in your CONFIG.SYS File: BUGS=OFF
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 13:35:00
    On 05 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    I never said I wasn't happy here. Having legitimate criticisms again
    one's own country is not a measure of unhappiness. Why are you tryin
    equate the two? Are you trying to say that the only way that someone
    be happy living in the US is to gloss over past indiscretions? How strange.
    But Jeff by your own statement you are living in the past, criticizing things that happened in the past to point out how bad things are. Strange indeed...

    "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
    -- Winston Churchill

    I cannot disagree with that. The US was not, and still isn't, perfect, but
    it is a lot better than many seem to want to give it credit for. Learning
    from the past is great... continuing to dredge it up, like it is still
    current, means you never get out of the past or move on from it.

    I believe we have a little too much of both going on right now... those not learning from the past at all, and those wanting to keep old wounds open as long as they can. I don't understand either, but really don't understand
    the latter.


    * SLMR 2.1a * SysOp: Gofer in charge of bolts, wires & electricity
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 13:39:00
    No, not everywhere. Nice try, though. However, what really saps prosperity is >authoritarianism. Where there's socialism and authoritarianism, it fails. >Where there's socialism without authoritarianism, it thrives. The same is >true for Democracy.

    You cannot have full socialism where there is not authoritarianism, at
    least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group that has
    tasted any level of freedom.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Skynet Softball >>>>>>>>>>>>> Catch it!!!
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 15:47:19
    On 06 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    socialism has brought nothing put sadness and disparity everywhe has been tried.
    Ok, where is this socialist utopia that you speak of?

    Every industrialized country except the US has universal healthcare, for one.

    Thinking that the US will survive forever when it's not even 300 year into existence is overly optimistic in my opinion. That's extremely young as civilization goes. Also, Rome did not fall because of moral decay.
    Did you ever the expression, Rome was not built in a day?
    Neither was the United States of America, keep your shirt on..

    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my country, but every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.

    Sometimes problems are due to external sources. Also, not everyone starts out on the same footing and with the same resources available them.

    Right? It's always someone else's fault...

    Not always. But also not never.

    It's a time to reflect on ourselves as a nation, the good and the bad and try to make ourselves the country we think we should be.
    I think we will be just fine with Conservative Values and Principles.

    Of course you do. But others disagree.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 15:49:01
    On 06 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
    -- Winston Churchill
    I cannot disagree with that. The US was not, and still isn't, perfect, but it is a lot better than many seem to want to give it credit for. Learning from the past is great... continuing to dredge it up, like it
    is still current, means you never get out of the past or move on from it.

    We will not move on from it until we fully address it.

    I believe we have a little too much of both going on right now... those not learning from the past at all, and those wanting to keep old wounds open as long as they can. I don't understand either, but really don't understand the latter.

    And then there's the weirdness of keeping statues honoring Confederates around...

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 15:49:46
    On 06 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    No, not everywhere. Nice try, though. However, what really saps prosperit >authoritarianism. Where there's socialism and authoritarianism, it fails. >Where there's socialism without authoritarianism, it thrives. The same is >true for Democracy.
    You cannot have full socialism where there is not authoritarianism, at least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group that has tasted any level of freedom.

    Nor full democracy. And that's the #1 reason Trump had to go.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 18:22:31
    On 06 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...
    Ok, where is this socialist utopia that you speak of?

    Every industrialized country except the US has universal healthcare, for one.
    Here are many web sites that would disagree with you. https://tinyurl.com/s242dbk

    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my country, but every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?

    It's a time to reflect on ourselves as a nation, the good and th and try to make ourselves the country we think we should be.
    I think we will be just fine with Conservative Values and Principles.

    Of course you do. But others disagree.

    Is it not obvious yet, that the Conservative base does not care what liberals do or say, as they are minor annoyance growing evermore insignificant with
    each hour of every day in this circus that is called the Biden Administration.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 17:51:35
    On 06 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    Ok, where is this socialist utopia that you speak of?
    Every industrialized country except the US has universal healthcare, one.
    Here are many web sites that would disagree with you. https://tinyurl.com/s242dbk

    Putting "socialism is an absolute failure" into a search engine does not disprove my statement.

    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my country, bu every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?

    Of course it is.

    It's a time to reflect on ourselves as a nation, the good a and try to make ourselves the country we think we should be
    I think we will be just fine with Conservative Values and Princi
    Of course you do. But others disagree.
    Is it not obvious yet, that the Conservative base does not care what liberals do or say, as they are minor annoyance growing evermore insignificant with each hour of every day in this circus that is called the Biden Administration.

    And is it not obvious to you that conservatives, and especially far-right conservatives, are not even close to a majority in this country?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Squires@1:120/457 to Jeff Thiele on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 19:13:08
    Being critical of one's own country is not necessarily pointing out "how bad things are." Both you and Gregory seem to have this black & white, "with us or against us" mentality, which I do not share.

    For me it's "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". I get sick and tired of hearing all the moaning and complaining about this country but here very little of what people are going to do to make it better.
    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you
    ask what you can do for your country."
    from John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 01:49:08
    Hello Mike,

    No, not everywhere. Nice try, though. However, what really saps prosperity
    is
    authoritarianism. Where there's socialism and authoritarianism, it fails.
    Where there's socialism without authoritarianism, it thrives. The same is
    true for Democracy.

    You cannot have full socialism where there is not authoritarianism, at least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group that has tasted any level of freedom.

    Sweden does quite well. So does France. And many other "socialist"
    countries. Want to try again?

    --Lee

    --
    Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Jeff Thiele on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 01:49:16
    Hello Jeff,

    And then there's the weirdness of keeping statues honoring Confederates around...

    Yankees. Carved up some puny faces on Mount Rushmore and called
    it a national treasure. But you know what? Southerners did one better.
    Right there in Georgia, the same place where every episode of "The
    Walking Dead" was filmed. And let me tell you -

    Confederates will *never* blow up Stone Mountain!

    Long live President Jefferson Davis!
    Long live "Stonewall" Jackson!
    Long live Robert E. Lee!

    Hurrah!

    --Lee

    --
    They say `Yes, Trump'! / We say `No, Trump!'

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 20:19:06
    On 06 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    Being critical of one's own country is not necessarily pointing out " bad things are." Both you and Gregory seem to have this black & white "with us or against us" mentality, which I do not share.
    For me it's "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything
    at all". I get sick and tired of hearing all the moaning and complaining about this country but here very little of what people are going to do
    to make it better.

    You have to address what's wrong with it in order to make it better. And, unfortunately, you also have to convince the more stubborn and ignorant among us that it actually needs changing. Trust me, I get tired of it, too.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 08:06:33
    And is it not obvious to you that conservatives, and especially far-right conservatives, are not even close to a majority in this country?
    The results are in, and it's not looking good for liberals. Awww Too Bad... Which means your voice does not carry as far as you think it does. (CNSNews.com) -- Polling data from 2019 show that America is "center-right" politically, with 37% describing themselves as "conservative," 35% saying
    they are "moderate," and only 24% stating they are "liberal."

    Gallup reached its conclusions based on 21 telephone surveys encompassing
    over 29,000 interviews with U.S. adults.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 08:20:09
    On 07 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    And is it not obvious to you that conservatives, and especially far-r conservatives, are not even close to a majority in this country?
    The results are in, and it's not looking good for liberals. Awww Too Bad... Which means your voice does not carry as far as you think it
    does. (CNSNews.com) -- Polling data from 2019 show that America is "center-right" politically, with 37% describing themselves as "conservative," 35% saying they are "moderate," and only 24% stating
    they are "liberal."

    The 202 number show a slightly different story: 35% conservative, 36%
    moderate, and 25% liberal. But keep in mind that while moderates do not consider themselves liberal, they don't consider themselves conservative, either. Keep in mind, though, that this is how people self-identify, and not necessarily how they vote.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Jeff Squires on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 15:57:09
    Hello Jeff,

    Being critical of one's own country is not necessarily pointing out
    "how
    bad things are." Both you and Gregory seem to have this black &
    white,
    "with us or against us" mentality, which I do not share.

    For me it's "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". I get sick and tired of hearing all the moaning and complaining about
    this country but here very little of what people are going to do to make it
    better.
    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you
    ask what you can do for your country."
    from John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961

    Lee Harvey Oswald took that message to heart.

    --Lee

    --
    You're fired, Donald!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 10:37:56
    On 06 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    Ok, where is this socialist utopia that you speak of?
    Every industrialized country except the US has universal healthcare, one.
    Here are many web sites that would disagree with you. https://tinyurl.com/s242dbk

    We've been through this before, Gregory. Here's a question for you: Are all countries that have universal healthcare "socialist" countries, yes or no?

    If yes, then "socialism" has indeed worked all over the world.

    If no, then why is universal healthcare "socialist" in the US?

    You have a double standard for "socialism." When you say it never works,
    you're referring to pure, full-blown "socialism" (mixed with more than a
    little authoritarianism). But when you say that socialism is a threat to the US, you point to things such as universal healthcare, which have worked elsewhere with great success.

    Make up your mind. Either "socialism" never works, which means that no successful country is "socialist" and it's not "socialist" to emulate them,
    or successful countries that we wish to emulate are "socialist" and the statement that "socialism" never works is false.

    Which is it?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 16:20:00
    We will not move on from it until we fully address it.

    It seemed like it was all addressed when I was younger. Then some more
    recent generation, not learning and not wanting to let go, stirs it back up.

    Meanwhile, most of the folks that do horrible things go to prison for it.
    Not sure what other things we could do to them, aside denying them trials. Since the death penalty is also a no-no for the not-learners and
    not-let-goers, it would seem a little hypocritical to send the guilty to
    the gallows.

    So ultimately, the bad cops and haters go to jail but we have to put up
    with all of the no-learner, no-let-go childishness in between.

    And then there's the weirdness of keeping statues honoring Confederates around...

    The people who seem most in the not-learner, not-let-goer group don't seem
    to live in the South, unless you are implying that places like Minneapolis, Portland, and other Northern places have those statues around, too. That
    would indeed be awful weird.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I am wealthy in my friends. -Shakespeare
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 15:48:00
    You cannot have full socialism where there is not authoritarianism, at least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group that has tasted any level of freedom.

    Nor full democracy. And that's the #1 reason Trump had to go.

    Hurting people's feelings does not an authoritarian make.


    * SLMR 2.1a * A wok is what you throw at a wabbit.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 16:19:00
    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my country, bu >GD> JT> every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?

    Of course it is.

    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered one.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'm not a bigot, I hate everyone.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF SQUIRES on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 16:19:00
    For me it's "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"
    I get sick and tired of hearing all the moaning and complaining about this coun
    try but here very little of what people are going to do to make it better.
    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you
    ask what you can do for your country."
    from John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961

    Aside from plans to turn safety net programs into hamocks, or planning something unconstitutional without any plans to ammend the document,
    neither of which will make it better in anyone's eyes but their own, they rarely have any such plans.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Part-time musicians are semiconductors.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 16:18:00
    We've been through this before, Gregory. Here's a question for you: Are all countries that have universal healthcare "socialist" countries, yes or no?

    If yes, then "socialism" has indeed worked all over the world.

    If no, then why is universal healthcare "socialist" in the US?

    You also have to assume that the universal healthcare in these countries actually works like Democrats in our country want us to believe it does.
    In talking to persons who have lived in Canada and the UK, for example, it
    is not all sunshine and lolly pops like some Americans seem to believe it
    is.

    What I hear from them is that you are better off if you can afford private coverage vs. what the government provides. OTOH, most all I have ever heard from people in our country who want universal health care is that, in order
    for it to work, everyone has to be on it and there can be no private care.

    So, if you can still get private coverage without being forced into paying
    some tax disguised as a "penalty" for doing so, then no I don't see that as socialism. If you have to pay a penalty, then it is a program that leans socialist that cannot work without non-users being forced to pay into it.
    If you cannot get private coverage, then it is socialism and likely does
    not "work" any better than what we have now.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Being paranoid doesn't mean they _aren't_ out to get you!
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 14:46:50
    You also have to assume that the universal healthcare in these countries actually works like Democrats in our country want us to believe it does.
    In talking to persons who have lived in Canada and the UK, for example, it
    is not all sunshine and lolly pops like some Americans seem to believe it
    is.

    Canada's health care coverage is basic. If you have some kind of emergency like a heart attack or a broken arm you will be well taken care of. Doctors appointments are also covered.

    That is all covered by taxes. There are no plans to be paid. Many Canadians who can afford it have private coverage for things like dental care and extended medical benefits. Without coverage those costs are out of pocket expenses.

    The UK has a much a better plan and also France than what Canada has come up with so far.

    So, if you can still get private coverage without being forced into paying some tax disguised as a "penalty" for doing so, then no I don't see that as socialism. If you have to pay a penalty, then it is a program that leans socialist that cannot work without non-users being forced to pay into it.
    If you cannot get private coverage, then it is socialism and likely does
    not "work" any better than what we have now.

    In Canada our health care system is available to all Canadians. You don't need any plan at all.

    It doesn't cover "anything you want". If you want dental care you need to cover that yourself or pay into an extended medical or dental plan that will cover those expenses.

    Those with the $$$ can go to the place of their choosing and get their treatments, or whatever they want/need.

    If a Canadian needs treatment they get it regardless of whether or not they are employed or their finacial situation.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.3)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 17:40:46
    On 07 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    We will not move on from it until we fully address it.
    It seemed like it was all addressed when I was younger. Then some more recent generation, not learning and not wanting to let go, stirs it back up.

    Current events would indicate that it has not, in fact, been fully addressed. It's not some new generation "not learning;" it's previous generations announcing that it's all over and everything's just hunky dory when it's not.

    Meanwhile, most of the folks that do horrible things go to prison for it. Not sure what other things we could do to them, aside denying them
    trials. Since the death penalty is also a no-no for the not-learners and not-let-goers, it would seem a little hypocritical to send the guilty to the gallows.

    Lots of people who do not-o-horrible things get lengthy prison sentences for that, too.

    So ultimately, the bad cops and haters go to jail but we have to put up with all of the no-learner, no-let-go childishness in between.

    Bad cops do not, in general, go to jail.

    And then there's the weirdness of keeping statues honoring Confederates around...
    The people who seem most in the not-learner, not-let-goer group don't
    seem to live in the South, unless you are implying that places like Minneapolis, Portland, and other Northern places have those statues around, too. That would indeed be awful weird.

    If by no-learner, not-let0goer group those who can't haven't learned and
    can't admit that the South lost the Civil War, then they do indeed live in
    the South. And elsewhere as well.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 17:49:27
    On 07 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    You cannot have full socialism where there is not authoritarianism, least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group that tasted any level of freedom.
    Nor full democracy. And that's the #1 reason Trump had to go.
    Hurting people's feelings does not an authoritarian make.

    Authoritarianism isn't just a quality of Trump; it's a quality of many of his supporters, which makes the whole authoritarianism thing work. Interestingly, psychologist have found that a person's views on child-rearing are a strong indicator of authoritarianism (which includes submission to
    authoritarianism), and also were a strong predictor of Trump supporters.

    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait in children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?

    In each case, the latter choice predicts authoritarianism.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 17:52:33
    On 07 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my countr >GD> JT> every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?
    Of course it is.
    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered one.

    Simple: We fit the definition of an empire. We are a large collection of
    states spreading our influence throughout the world, often by military force.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 17:55:00
    On 07 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    You also have to assume that the universal healthcare in these countries actually works like Democrats in our country want us to believe it does. In talking to persons who have lived in Canada and the UK, for example,
    it is not all sunshine and lolly pops like some Americans seem to
    believe it is.

    I have family in Canada. I have family in Texas. I have been privy to very interesting discussions about the Canadian healthcare system and the American right-wing lies about said Canadian healthcare system.

    As for the rest, I believe that Alan has addressed your hearsay concerns.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Mike Powell on Thursday, July 08, 2021 08:42:00
    Mike Powell wrote to JEFF THIELE <=-

    What I hear from them is that you are better off if you can afford
    private coverage vs. what the government provides. OTOH, most all I
    have ever heard from people in our country who want universal health
    care is that, in order for it to work, everyone has to be on it and
    there can be no private care.

    If you give people the option to be put into a socialistic program, you will end up with 99% taking with 1% giving and the program will fail.

    So, like all socialist programs, people must be FORCED into the program. Oh, and the program will still fail. It will simply take longer. EVERY time this has been tried, it's failed. But the Anointed Ones keep believing that it fails because **they** weren't in charge.

    And this is a simple example of the end result of all socialism: totalitarianism.


    ... Programmers don't get sniffles, they get a CODE.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Ron Lauzon on Thursday, July 08, 2021 09:54:40
    On 08 Jul 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...
    So, like all socialist programs, people must be FORCED into the program. Oh, and the program will still fail. It will simply take longer. EVERY time this has been tried, it's failed. But the Anointed Ones keep believing that it fails because **they** weren't in charge.

    Here you're wrong. It has worked in multiple countries.

    "Squawk! Squawk! Anointed Ones! Squawk! Squawk! Typical leftie response! Squawk! Squawk!"

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Thursday, July 08, 2021 20:29:43
    Hello Mike,

    We will not move on from it until we fully address it.

    It seemed like it was all addressed when I was younger. Then some more recent generation, not learning and not wanting to let go, stirs it back up.

    Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

    Meanwhile, most of the folks that do horrible things go to prison for it.

    David Koresh did not go to prison.
    Jim Jones did not go to prison.
    Lots of other cult leaders did not go to prison.

    Benito Mussolini did not go to prison.
    Adolf Hitler did not go to prison.
    Josef Stalin did not go to prison.
    Donald Trump did not go to prison (although he might some day).

    Not sure what other things we could do to them, aside denying them trials.

    Tojo was put on trial.
    He was found guilty by his enemies and hanged for his crimes.

    Saddam Hussein was put on trial.
    He was found guilty by his enemies and hanged for his crimes.

    Milosevic would have been put on trial but died while in custody
    before he would have been found guilty by his enemies ...

    Since the death penalty is also a no-no for the not-learners and not-let-goers, it would seem a little hypocritical to send the guilty to the
    gallows.

    Timothy McVeigh was put on trial and found guilty by his enemies,
    then given the juice so he could meet his maker.

    So ultimately, the bad cops and haters go to jail but we have to put up with all of the no-learner, no-let-go childishness in between.

    Adolf Hitler went to jail before he became der Fuhrer.
    But he never went to jail afterwards.

    Moammar Qaddafi never went to jail. Neither did his sons.
    But they all met their maker on the very same day. Except
    for one, who found someplace else to go.

    And then there's the weirdness of keeping statues honoring Confederates
    around...

    The people who seem most in the not-learner, not-let-goer group don't seem to live in the South, unless you are implying that places like Minneapolis,
    Portland, and other Northern places have those statues around, too. That would indeed be awful weird.

    There are many Confederate statues that remain, and will never be
    taken down. Historic places, and national cemetaries, etc. Places
    such as Natchez, Mississippi and elsewhere. Both Confederate and
    Union monuments. But nobody wants to honor the dead any more.

    --Lee

    --
    Food for the Fun of It

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Thursday, July 08, 2021 20:29:48
    Hello Mike,

    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my country,
    bu
    every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?

    Of course it is.

    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered one.

    Iran is an empire. The USA is not.

    --Lee

    --
    Lock him up!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Jeff Thiele on Thursday, July 08, 2021 20:29:54
    Hello Jeff,

    We will not move on from it until we fully address it.
    It seemed like it was all addressed when I was younger. Then some
    more
    recent generation, not learning and not wanting to let go, stirs it
    back
    up.

    Current events would indicate that it has not, in fact, been fully addressed.
    It's not some new generation "not learning;" it's previous generations announcing that it's all over and everything's just hunky dory when it's not.

    The more things change, the more things stay the same.

    Meanwhile, most of the folks that do horrible things go to prison for
    it.
    Not sure what other things we could do to them, aside denying them
    trials. Since the death penalty is also a no-no for the not-learners
    and
    not-let-goers, it would seem a little hypocritical to send the guilty
    to
    the gallows.

    Lots of people who do not-o-horrible things get lengthy prison sentences for
    that, too.

    It is either lengthy prison sentences or kill them all.
    Far cheaper to sentence them to lengthy prison sentences.

    Or find exceptions so those who have been sentenced to death
    cannot be killed.

    Today the court says we cannot murder children. Or those who are
    insane. Or those who do not meet other standards. So why have the
    death penalty at all? Takes for too long to murder them anyway. Most
    of them die of old age, never having to face the consequences of their
    action. So why bother? Murdering folks in my name is anathema to me.
    And it should be anathema for all. But this country likes to kill, so
    we have to keep on finding more exceptions ...

    So ultimately, the bad cops and haters go to jail but we have to put
    up
    with all of the no-learner, no-let-go childishness in between.

    Bad cops do not, in general, go to jail.

    And then there's the weirdness of keeping statues honoring
    Confederates
    around...
    The people who seem most in the not-learner, not-let-goer group don't
    seem to live in the South, unless you are implying that places like
    Minneapolis, Portland, and other Northern places have those statues
    around, too. That would indeed be awful weird.

    If by no-learner, not-let0goer group those who can't haven't learned and can't admit that the South lost the Civil War, then they do indeed live in the South. And elsewhere as well.

    The South has never been subjugated, despite the attempts by the
    North to indoctrinate falsehoods for Southerners to believe in.

    Consider this fact - 90% of all the histories of the Civil War have
    been written from the perspective of the North. Whatever happened to
    the viewpoint of the South? Oh, those viewpoints did not count. After
    all, only the winners write the histories.

    --Lee

    --
    Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Jeff Thiele on Thursday, July 08, 2021 20:30:00
    Hello Jeff,

    You cannot have full socialism where there is not
    authoritarianism,
    least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group
    that
    tasted any level of freedom.
    Nor full democracy. And that's the #1 reason Trump had to go.
    Hurting people's feelings does not an authoritarian make.

    Authoritarianism isn't just a quality of Trump; it's a quality of many of his
    supporters, which makes the whole authoritarianism thing work. Interestingly,
    psychologist have found that a person's views on child-rearing are a strong
    indicator of authoritarianism (which includes submission to authoritarianism), and also were a strong predictor of Trump supporters.

    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait in children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?

    In each case, the latter choice predicts authoritarianism.

    Are you saying, or suggesting, that Jesus was not a good little boy?

    There is a reason why I am asking you that question.
    86% of evangelicals voted for Trump in the last election.
    Most Trump supporters believe in the "prosperity" gospel.
    And of course, God is always on their side. Which is why
    every good Republican believes in Jesus (Trump) as their
    god.

    --Lee

    --
    It's not for women.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Alan Ianson on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 20:30:23
    If a Canadian needs treatment they get it regardless of whether or not they are employed or their finacial situation.

    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover all of
    the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Thursday, July 08, 2021 17:05:00
    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait in children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?

    I look at that list and do not see that the first choice contradicts the second. Independent people can have respect for their elders, curious
    people can have good manners, and most considerate people are well-behaved.

    Maybe that is the problem... people who think they are smart look at these traits and think they somehow contradict each other.

    The third question is the only one where I see a potential contradiction,
    but even then I don't think that one disqualifies the other. My answer -- they'd better be self-reliant as adults because being overly reliant on
    others, and ESPECIALLY the government, will only lead them into trouble.
    If you want them to be self-reliant as adults you will need to start them
    on that path at a young age.

    If you are trying to list true contradictions it would go more like:

    1) Independence vs. dependence (on a government or authority figure)
    2) Respect vs. disrespect
    3) Curiousity vs. believing everything you are told
    4) good manners vs. bad ones
    5) self-reliance vs. well, dependence again
    6) Independence, again, vs. obedience
    7) Considerate vs. inconsiderate
    8) well-behaved vs. not well-behaved
    9) earning things vs. having them given to you, or feeling "owed"

    In this list of actual opposites, I tend to favor the first choice each
    time. I believe choosing the second option to #s 1, 3, 5, 6, and 9 would be much better indicators of who would favor/follow authoritarians. Much, MUCH better than your list of mostly non-contradictory terms above.

    Ironically (NOT!), those who participated or supported all of the unrest
    last Summer, some of which continues now, and those that participated in the events of January 6, would both appear to favor the second choice most of
    the time. So, basically, you've got your anti-Trumpers and your most
    feverant Trumpsters all in the same bucket (tho I suspect the latter would
    pick the first choice a couple of times).

    Hmmmm.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Pregnancy is a side effect of sloppy birth control.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Thursday, July 08, 2021 17:09:00
    On 07 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my count
    every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?
    Of course it is.
    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered one.

    Simple: We fit the definition of an empire. We are a large collection of states spreading our influence throughout the world, often by military force.

    I believe we should not do that. I also believe that it is time we start lessening our influence. Joe Biden does not appear to believe that we
    should stop spreading our influence, so I would guess that his supporters
    as a whole also do not.


    * SLMR 2.1a * No problem is so formidable that you can't just walk away
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Thursday, July 08, 2021 17:15:00
    I have family in Canada. I have family in Texas. I have been privy to very interesting discussions about the Canadian healthcare system and the American right-wing lies about said Canadian healthcare system.

    As for the rest, I believe that Alan has addressed your hearsay concerns.

    Not hearsay... most Americans have had ample opportunity to get both doses
    of their shot. Many Canadians, and others in social medicine countries,
    are still waiting on theirs.

    I don't see that mentioned in this echo, except by Michael Mrak when he and
    I discussed the shot a couple weeks back, but I have seen it brought up multiple times by multiple citizens of non-US countries in other echos.

    And Al confirmed that if you want beyond basic coverage you have to pay
    for it yourself. If you have an emergency, I do not believe that hospitals
    in the US are allowed to turn you away (something he mentioned was covered
    by their basic coverage).

    If you want basic, universal healthcare, Al said it was availble to all citizens. Why don't you move to, and become a citizen of, Canada? They speak English in most provinces, so there is no language barrier.

    If you don't like their climate, he says the UK basic coverage is even
    better.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Moderator: Knows all, sees all, trips over own two feet.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Friday, July 09, 2021 07:45:49
    On 07 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    If a Canadian needs treatment they get it regardless of whether or no they are employed or their finacial situation.
    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover all of the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    Says who?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 09, 2021 07:50:10
    On 08 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait in children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?
    I look at that list and do not see that the first choice contradicts the second. Independent people can have respect for their elders, curious people can have good manners, and most considerate people are well-behaved.

    The question is, which do you feel is more important in children. Not adults, children.

    Maybe that is the problem... people who think they are smart look at
    these traits and think they somehow contradict each other.

    They do and they don't. But again, it was not suggested that they can't coesxist; the question was which do you find more important in children.

    The third question is the only one where I see a potential contradiction, but even then I don't think that one disqualifies the other. My answer
    -- they'd better be self-reliant as adults because being overly reliant
    on others, and ESPECIALLY the government, will only lead them into trouble. If you want them to be self-reliant as adults you will need to start them on that path at a young age.

    Fair enough.

    If you are trying to list true contradictions it would go more like:
    1) Independence vs. dependence (on a government or authority figure)
    2) Respect vs. disrespect
    3) Curiousity vs. believing everything you are told
    4) good manners vs. bad ones
    5) self-reliance vs. well, dependence again
    6) Independence, again, vs. obedience
    7) Considerate vs. inconsiderate
    8) well-behaved vs. not well-behaved
    9) earning things vs. having them given to you, or feeling "owed"

    That's quite the stacked deck you have there. The traits I listed were all
    good traits, but their relative priority depended on one's own personal
    values.

    In this list of actual opposites, I tend to favor the first choice each time. I believe choosing the second option to #s 1, 3, 5, 6, and 9
    would be much better indicators of who would favor/follow
    authoritarians. Much, MUCH better than your list of mostly non-contradictory terms above.

    Of course you do, because it's a stacked deck.

    Ironically (NOT!), those who participated or supported all of the unrest last Summer, some of which continues now, and those that participated in the events of January 6, would both appear to favor the second choice
    most of the time. So, basically, you've got your anti-Trumpers and your most feverant Trumpsters all in the same bucket (tho I suspect the
    latter would pick the first choice a couple of times).

    Not necessarily.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 09, 2021 07:53:06
    On 08 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?
    Of course it is.
    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered on
    Simple: We fit the definition of an empire. We are a large collection of states spreading our influence throughout the world, often by military f
    I believe we should not do that. I also believe that it is time we start lessening our influence. Joe Biden does not appear to believe that we should stop spreading our influence, so I would guess that his supporters as a whole also do not.

    Then you agree that we are an empire, but don't think we should be one?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Aaron Thomas on Friday, July 09, 2021 08:35:00
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    If a Canadian needs treatment they get it regardless of whether or not they are employed or their finacial situation.

    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover
    all of the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    Alan leaves out the long wait times Canadians have for treatment for many things. Also the lower quality of care and lack of innovation in the Canadian health industry.

    Lefties are ignorant of basic economics (Thomas Sowell's book Basic Economics is a really easy, and good, read on this topic). They do not understand that all resources have some level of scarcity. Lefties, being that they believe are The Anointed Ones, want to believe that **they** are best suited to manage those scarse resources. They have proven, time and time again, that they are completely (and sometimes horribly) wrong.

    And I'd like to point out how often Canadians come to the U.S. for some of their treatments. Just like nearly all nations that have socialized health care do.


    ... Don't worry the next message will be better!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 09, 2021 08:01:42
    On 08 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    I have family in Canada. I have family in Texas. I have been privy to ve interesting discussions about the Canadian healthcare system and the Ame right-wing lies about said Canadian healthcare system.

    As for the rest, I believe that Alan has addressed your hearsay concerns
    Not hearsay... most Americans have had ample opportunity to get both
    doses of their shot. Many Canadians, and others in social medicine countries, are still waiting on theirs.

    Many Americans refuse to get the vaccine. As of July 8, 2021, 69.4% of Canadians had received at least one dose, compared to 55.8% of Americans.
    40.5% of Canadians were fully vaccinated, compared to 48.2% of Americans. So yes, less full vaccinations but considerably more headway overall.

    And Al confirmed that if you want beyond basic coverage you have to pay for it yourself. If you have an emergency, I do not believe that hospitals in the US are allowed to turn you away (something he mentioned was covered by their basic coverage).

    ERs in the US are required to perform life-saving treatment, but once a
    patient is stabilized, if they're unable to pay they're out. Canadian basic healthcare covers far more than this. And even if you have to pay for things that extend beyond basic coverage yourself, it's still a better system than
    we have here.

    If you want basic, universal healthcare, Al said it was availble to all citizens. Why don't you move to, and become a citizen of, Canada? They speak English in most provinces, so there is no language barrier.

    Because I think that my country could be a much better place for its
    citizens. How about if we pass universal healthcare and you don't like it,
    you move to some country that doesn't have it?

    If you don't like their climate, he says the UK basic coverage is even better.

    Again, let's pass it and you can find a new home.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Aaron Thomas on Friday, July 09, 2021 21:42:38
    Hello Aaron,

    If a Canadian needs treatment they get it regardless of whether or not
    they are employed or their finacial situation.

    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover all of
    the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    "America Last." ~Donald Trump's new campaign slogan

    --Lee

    --
    As Good As It Looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 09, 2021 22:59:22
    Hello Mike,

    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait in
    children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?

    I look at that list and do not see that the first choice contradicts the second. Independent people can have respect for their elders, curious people can have good manners, and most considerate people are well-behaved.

    Maybe that is the problem... people who think they are smart look at these traits and think they somehow contradict each other.

    The third question is the only one where I see a potential contradiction, but even then I don't think that one disqualifies the other. My answer -- they'd better be self-reliant as adults because being overly reliant on others, and ESPECIALLY the government, will only lead them into trouble.

    Good goodness, Miss Molly. Aren't you deluded?

    If you want them to be self-reliant as adults you will need to start them on that path at a young age.

    Oh yeah, man. Let's indoctrinate them. At the earliest age possible.

    If you are trying to list true contradictions it would go more like:

    1) Independence vs. dependence (on a government or authority figure)
    2) Respect vs. disrespect
    3) Curiousity vs. believing everything you are told
    4) good manners vs. bad ones
    5) self-reliance vs. well, dependence again
    6) Independence, again, vs. obedience
    7) Considerate vs. inconsiderate
    8) well-behaved vs. not well-behaved
    9) earning things vs. having them given to you, or feeling "owed"

    In this list of actual opposites, I tend to favor the first choice each time. I believe choosing the second option to #s 1, 3, 5, 6, and 9 would be
    much better indicators of who would favor/follow authoritarians. Much, MUCH
    better than your list of mostly non-contradictory terms above.

    Sometimes you make me laugh. In this case, a true ROTFL.
    While his disciples tried to keep them at bay, Jesus had
    another idea. He told his disciples to bring *all* the
    children to him. And you know what? He loved them all.
    Each and every one of them.

    But hey. In your world I guess that is not the Christian
    thing to do. Besides, Jesus was Jewish.

    Am I right?

    Ironically (NOT!), those who participated or supported all of the unrest last Summer, some of which continues now, and those that participated in the
    events of January 6, would both appear to favor the second choice most of the time. So, basically, you've got your anti-Trumpers and your most feverant Trumpsters all in the same bucket (tho I suspect the latter would pick the first choice a couple of times).

    Hmmmm.

    The mild and meek Jesus was a heretic. Or rather, those who claim
    he was mild and meek. Of course, had that been the case nobody would
    have bothered having him pegged to a tree.

    --Lee

    --
    Not my president!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 09, 2021 22:59:28
    Hello Mike,

    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US,
    my count
    every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?
    Of course it is.
    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered one.

    Simple: We fit the definition of an empire. We are a large collection of
    states spreading our influence throughout the world, often by military
    force.

    I believe we should not do that. I also believe that it is time we start lessening our influence. Joe Biden does not appear to believe that we should stop spreading our influence, so I would guess that his supporters as a whole also do not.

    You believe that China should be our master.
    I believe the USA should always be the master of its own destiny.

    Today, we are the leader of the free world. It may not always
    be that way. But right now, it is. As such, we are able to control
    our own destiny. What happens when some other country takes control
    is that we will be on the outside looking in, always dependent on
    what some other country does or does not do.

    The previous president allowed Putin to keep his illegal annexation
    of Crimea, and even wanted to lift sanctions against his country.

    The previous president allowed the tinpot dictator of North Korea
    to keep his stockpile of nuclear weapons, and even continue to add
    on to that stockpile, while doing nothing to stop him from firing
    off more missiles towards our friends.

    The previous president removed US troops from Germany and elsewhere
    in Europe, which left an entire continent vulnerable to Russian
    aggression.

    The previous president began removing US troops from Afghanistan,
    signalling to the Taliban not to give up their own hopes of retaking
    the country.

    The previous president told his supporters to ransack the Capitol
    building so that he could remain in office forever. Just like Putin.
    And so his followers did exactly as they were told, on January 6,
    showing the entire world what they thought of our democracy.

    And you know why Trump & Co. did what they did.

    You see, the American people did a violent act. A very violent act.
    They voted Trump & Co. out of office. Imagine that. No guns. No other
    weapons needed. Only their means to cast a ballot. And let me tell
    you - they whipped his fat ass. By over 7 million votes.

    Yes, the American people are very much in control.

    --Lee

    --
    Dieting doesn't work, Weight Watchers does

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 09, 2021 22:59:33
    Hello Mike,

    I have family in Canada. I have family in Texas. I have been privy to very
    interesting discussions about the Canadian healthcare system and the
    American
    right-wing lies about said Canadian healthcare system.

    As for the rest, I believe that Alan has addressed your hearsay concerns.

    Not hearsay... most Americans have had ample opportunity to get both doses of their shot. Many Canadians, and others in social medicine countries, are still waiting on theirs.

    I don't see that mentioned in this echo, except by Michael Mrak when he and
    I discussed the shot a couple weeks back, but I have seen it brought up multiple times by multiple citizens of non-US countries in other echos.

    And Al confirmed that if you want beyond basic coverage you have to pay for it yourself. If you have an emergency, I do not believe that hospitals
    in the US are allowed to turn you away (something he mentioned was covered by their basic coverage).

    That's Canada. This is here.

    If you want basic, universal healthcare, Al said it was availble to all citizens.

    Only US military (retired) have basic, universal healthcare in this
    country. Everybody else gets screwed (one way or another).

    Why don't you move to, and become a citizen of, Canada?

    This health care for profit system we have in the USA has got to go.
    Not the citizens of this country. They did not create it. Nor do they
    want it.

    Why the hell should any US citizen have to move to Canada?
    Or to any place else? Access to quality healthcare is the first
    of all human rights, and should be accesssible to *all* US
    citizens - without exception.

    They speak English in most provinces, so there is no language barrier.

    We speak French in Lousiana, bub. And yes, we are US citizens.

    Je suis fache aussi, Mike!

    If you don't like their climate, he says the UK basic coverage is even better.

    Cajuns got here first, before there even was a USA.
    As such, you have absolutely no right to tell me, or
    any other Cajun, where to go!

    Besides, I like it here ...

    --Lee

    --
    Show me what democracy looks like! / This is what demcracy looks like!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron Lauzon on Friday, July 09, 2021 19:07:50
    Alan leaves out the long wait times Canadians have for treatment for many things. Also the lower quality of care and lack of innovation in the Canadian health industry.

    I saw a doctor (head of the pediatrics dept) quit his job after working
    himself half to death. It looks like there's no amount of money that they
    could have paid him to stay. So what's universal health care going to mean for the remaining physicians in that department?

    Universal healthcare seems to be on the back burner for Democrats right now. They already have enough schemes in action to milk the taxpayers dry, don't they? Maybe Joe/George will throw that crap at us at the end of their term if the easier stuff doesn't cut it for them.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Friday, July 09, 2021 19:35:08
    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover of the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    Says who?

    We're an open border country. Are we not going to offer universal health care to all who enter? That would be a lousy way to treat our new neighbors.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Lee Lofaso on Friday, July 09, 2021 19:49:02
    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover of
    the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    "America Last." ~Donald Trump's new campaign slogan

    The programming worked really good on you!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Mike Powell on Saturday, July 10, 2021 01:47:04
    On 07-08-21 17:05, Mike Powell <=-
    spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Tired of Trump's crap <=-


    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait in children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?

    I look at that list and do not see that the first choice contradicts
    the second. Independent people can have respect for their elders,
    curious people can have good manners, and most considerate people are well-behaved.
    Maybe that is the problem... people who think they are smart look at
    these traits and think they somehow contradict each other.

    That listing of traits and choices of preference are typical of some physiological tests. The point is not a choice between good and evil,
    but simply a choice in preference. Such tests would have a lot more
    than four comparisons and only with a large number of preference choices
    can any judgement be made.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:51:38, 10 Jul 2021
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Saturday, July 10, 2021 09:32:54
    On 09 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to c of the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.
    Says who?
    We're an open border country. Are we not going to offer universal health care to all who enter? That would be a lousy way to treat our new neighbors.

    We're not an "open border country." People get deported pretty much daily.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Saturday, July 10, 2021 10:32:00
    On 08 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    Which of the following do you consider to be the more important trait i
    children:
    independence or respect for their elders?
    curiosity or good manners?
    self-reliance or obedience?
    being considerate or being well-behaved?
    I look at that list and do not see that the first choice contradicts the second. Independent people can have respect for their elders, curious people can have good manners, and most considerate people are well-behaved.

    The question is, which do you feel is more important in children. Not adults, children.

    But in three of the four listed, they are not contradictory terms and, in
    the fourth, they are not necessarily contradictory. In most cases, for a
    kid, I would say "both!"

    If they don't show some independence or self-reliance, they aren't going to make it in this world without being forever dependent on someone/thing else.

    If they don't show some respect for their elders, they probably are not
    going to grow up to be good listeners (which means not good learners,
    either).

    If they are not curious, they won't learn anything.

    If they have bad manners, are inconsiderate, or are not well-behaved
    (which, to me, is the same as bad manners), they may not socialize well,
    and could also possibly have trouble getting a job (although being inconsiderate may make them well-suited for a management position in the
    world of IT).

    Obedience is the only one where I could see a parent thinking that is good
    out of their kid but, later, could get them in trouble as an adult (or even
    as an older kid). On the one hand, you'd want them to learn cooperation
    and compromise, but you don't want them to grow up to be a push-over. Kids that are too obedient don't learn independence or self-reliance, which are
    more important as an adult.

    Maybe that is the problem... people who think they are smart look at these traits and think they somehow contradict each other.

    They do and they don't. But again, it was not suggested that they can't coesxist; the question was which do you find more important in children.

    Most people would have difficulty choosing between two terms that don't contradict, regardless of whether we are talking importance in adults or
    kids, especially when most of them are important for the kids future.

    How can it truly be a good measure of authoritarian tendencies, or anything else, when most SMART people are going to look at those choices and realize that both side of each one (except one) are important if you want your kid
    to grow up to be a "high-functioning" adult.

    Only people who are REALLY to one side or the other would be able to choose
    one over the other, if they put any thought into it at all.

    If you are trying to list true contradictions it would go more like:
    1) Independence vs. dependence (on a government or authority figure)
    2) Respect vs. disrespect
    3) Curiousity vs. believing everything you are told
    4) good manners vs. bad ones
    5) self-reliance vs. well, dependence again
    6) Independence, again, vs. obedience
    7) Considerate vs. inconsiderate
    8) well-behaved vs. not well-behaved
    9) earning things vs. having them given to you, or feeling "owed"

    That's quite the stacked deck you have there. The traits I listed were all good traits, but their relative priority depended on one's own personal values.

    It is stacked. Probably better used by a third pary observer because most people are going to show traits on the right side of each through their behavior but are not likely to admit to most of them because they don't
    sound good. They may not even notice those in themselves.

    Like most people are going to say they value independence, but several who would answer that way spend most of their being the opposite of independent when viewed by a third-party.

    Ironically (NOT!), those who participated or supported all of the unrest last Summer, some of which continues now, and those that participated in the events of January 6, would both appear to favor the second choice most of the time. So, basically, you've got your anti-Trumpers and your most feverant Trumpsters all in the same bucket (tho I suspect the latter would pick the first choice a couple of times).

    Not necessarily.

    Through their actions, or supporting the actions of others, they clearly
    are.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Saturday, July 10, 2021 10:38:00
    On 08 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?
    Of course it is.
    Explain. I have my reasons for believing it could be considered o
    Simple: We fit the definition of an empire. We are a large collection o
    states spreading our influence throughout the world, often by military
    I believe we should not do that. I also believe that it is time we start
    lessening our influence. Joe Biden does not appear to believe that we should stop spreading our influence, so I would guess that his supporters
    as a whole also do not.

    Then you agree that we are an empire, but don't think we should be one?

    My original contribution to this discussion was an admission that "I have
    my reasons for believing it could be considered (an empire)." That is
    still quoted above. :)

    I am not certain we are still an empire in the traditional sense, but we
    still have some of the influence of one and, yes, I don't think we should
    be using our influence so often.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to DALE SHIPP on Saturday, July 10, 2021 10:46:00
    That listing of traits and choices of preference are typical of some physiological tests. The point is not a choice between good and evil,
    but simply a choice in preference. Such tests would have a lot more
    than four comparisons and only with a large number of preference choices
    can any judgement be made.

    I never have liked tests that seem to punish people who actually think
    about their answer before answering them. In the example given, if your
    kid has been a PITA that particular day, your answers could vary wildly
    from another day where you are not feeling the stress.

    As I have mentioned in an answer to Jeff today, in most cases both sides of each question are important if you want your kid to grow up and be able to
    take care of themselves. I would not be able to choose one being better
    than the other for three of the four listed.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON LAUZON on Saturday, July 10, 2021 10:54:00
    What I hear from them is that you are better off if you can afford private coverage vs. what the government provides. OTOH, most all I have ever heard from people in our country who want universal health care is that, in order for it to work, everyone has to be on it and there can be no private care.

    If you give people the option to be put into a socialistic program, you will end up with 99% taking with 1% giving and the program will fail.

    Eventually, you might. You are going to have what I hope is more than 1%
    that value their independence and self-reliance more than that but, OTOH,
    if they are forced to pay an ever-increasing amount for only others to
    benefit, the lure would become more tempting.

    We have had this discussion before and parts of it get forgotten/ignored... most of these countries have these "social(ist)" programs which are
    financed by "social(ist)" devices (like wealth redistribution through heavy taxation) BUT which rely heavily on non-socialist actions, like people working for a living and making money (capitalism that can be taxed).

    Otherwise, without the non-socialist actions that bring in the tax revenue, there is no $$$ to redistribute and pay for the programs.

    So, like all socialist programs, people must be FORCED into the program. Oh, and the program will still fail. It will simply take longer. EVERY time this
    has been tried, it's failed. But the Anointed Ones keep believing that it fails because **they** weren't in charge.

    And this is a simple example of the end result of all socialism: totalitarianism.

    That is the only way a fully-socialist, or communist, economy/government
    works. My opinion is that they do not last as long, so it is questionable whether they really do "work" beyond a generation or two.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON LAUZON on Saturday, July 10, 2021 11:04:00
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    If a Canadian needs treatment they get it regardless of whether or not they are employed or their finacial situation.

    Democrats here want to do the same thing except we're going to cover
    all of the earth's humans instead of just American citizens.

    Alan leaves out the long wait times Canadians have for treatment for many things. Also the lower quality of care and lack of innovation in the Canadian
    health industry.

    And higher prices for any medications they deem as "non-essential."

    He also either is not too far from a major metropolitan area, or is not old enough yet, to be told he needs to consider moving to such an area or risk losing some of his benefits.

    Lefties are ignorant of basic economics (Thomas Sowell's book Basic Economics is a really easy, and good, read on this topic). They do not understand that all resources have some level of scarcity. Lefties, being that they believe are The Anointed Ones, want to believe that **they** are best suited to manage
    those scarse resources. They have proven, time and time again, that they are completely (and sometimes horribly) wrong.

    You are assuming that they even understand that the resouces in question
    are scarce. There are many people, regardless of their political views, who
    do not understand this.

    And I'd like to point out how often Canadians come to the U.S. for some of their treatments. Just like nearly all nations that have socialized health care do.

    While in Canada in 2017, I met three Canadians that seemed interested to
    know my opinion of US politics. During those conversations, two of the
    three (the older two) admitted as much. One, through voluntary service in
    the US Army, uses our VA system because he believes it is better. The other admitted that they'd be moving to the US when they retire, in part to take advantage of our health care system.

    One of those older ones had recieved the letter I mentioned above, the one
    that plans to retire here, and the other was aware of the practice.

    The youngest of the three, maybe because of being younger, didn't bring up health care.


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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to Mike Powell on Sunday, July 11, 2021 00:53:04
    Alan leaves out the long wait times Canadians have for treatment for many
    things. Also the lower quality of care and lack of innovation in the
    Canadian health industry.

    I never left out wait times. I was not talking about that.

    That is a talking point someone else brought about.

    He also either is not too far from a major metropolitan area, or is not old enough yet, to be told he needs to consider moving to such an area or risk losing some of his benefits.

    I lose no benefits for living in a small town.

    I may have to travel to Vancouver or Kamloops for some treatments or surgery if it is ever needed but I am covered no matter where I live.
    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Sunday, July 11, 2021 08:48:10
    On 06 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    Putting "socialism is an absolute failure" into a search engine does not disprove my statement.

    https://tinyurl.com/s242dbk

    Sure it does there are millions who have suffered under socialism, by
    searching for such a phrase it confirms, just how wrong you are.
    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my countr every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    Why you are thumbing your nose at America, pointing out all the bad that this Nation as done. What are you doing to ensure it does not fall?
    You're not helping whatsoever, now hold the flashlight, while we fix things.
    or get back into the house and play with your toys.

    Leftists are indoctrinating our children to be dysfunctional liberals. Eco-anxiety. Transgenderism. White Privilege. The anti-American, anti-Christian left is teaching our children to be confused, unstable,
    insane, hateful adults like themselves, if you can call them adults at all. Being more advanced in years without being mature or educated does not make
    you an adult.
    Giving these people their way when they are mentally, emotionally, and socially dysfunctional is not benefiting society.
    It's corrupting our culture.

    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?

    Of course it is.

    How liberals view our Nation, is the center of the problem.

    America was designed not to be an empire but instead to be a federal republic made up of a central government and state governments which were the
    precursors and creators of the central government. This central government founded upon and constrained by a written constitution originally presented
    the world with something new, a national government made up of divided
    co-equal powers. The Congress to make the laws, the executive to enforce the laws, and the judicial to judge if the laws conformed to the Constitution:
    the guiding light and touch-stone of American limited government.
    This worked well to establish and maintain a republic but it would not foster nor perpetuate an empire.

    Thus the Constitution established the framework of what became known as the system of checks and balances. Only congress could make laws, but the President could veto them. Congress could over-ride a president's veto, but the Supreme Court could declare laws unconstitutional making them null and void. The president is in charge of foreign policy and is the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, but the Congress controlled the purse and could cut off funding. Upon petition the Supreme Court could declare the actions of the president unconstitutional yet the president could appoint justices to the Supreme Court.

    No, America Is Not Collapsing Like The Roman Empire Did https://tinyurl.com/uuheb9ts

    Dat T. Nguyen
    PhD candidate of politics and philosophy at ECNU.Shanghai

    In a recent poll, most Americans (including Jeff Thiele) believe that "socialism is about universal health care or tuition free education."

    Socialism, however, is really a social revolution that drastically changes
    the relations between workers and capitalists. If capitalism is an economic system that, with the support of the state's coercive apparatus, puts owners above workers, then socialism is an economic system that eliminates the role
    of the capitalists becoming workers once again.

    This fundamental change in our social relations requires simply more than the successful implementation of universal health care or tuition free education
    or even a state-controlled economy. The Soviet Union, which had a centrally-planned economy, was probably too poor or lacked the capital accumulation to transition successfully to socialism. If socialism is understood as the state controlling the means of production, then the bureaucrats assume the coercive powers of the state the courts, police and military. As we know, this concentration of state power often leads to abuses. And the social relations between workers and bosses remain unchanged.

    What needs to be changed is the social relations, the hierarchical relations between capitalists and workers. The hierarchical work organization of capitalism that places capitalists above workers was required for state accumulation. The average individuals have a tendency to spend and not save. State survival and expansion depended continuous accumulation. There is a mutual dependency between capitalists and the state. But, I think, once some level of accumulation has been achieved, the role of the capitalists becomes unnecessary.

    America is the richest and most powerful country in the world. If there is a first country to transition to socialism, America would be the one. But the history of socialism in America is relatively weak compared to those of other countries. American workers don't necessary always share the same interests. Americans are divided over on the issues of race, gender, and party politics. Class consciousness has been severely weakened.

    Perhaps because in America many still believe in becoming their own bosses. Every talented tech worker wants to be an entrepreneur. The problem, thus,
    with socialism in America is that everyone here wants to become a capitalist. But this American Dream is becoming increasingly unreachable for many young people. Small businesses are disappearing. Large ones are consolidating and merging into even larger entities. The startups of yesterday have become Big Tech.

    Americans, particularly young Americans, are frustrated with the chances they are given. The economic pie is getting larger, but they are not getting a bigger piece of it. And they turn to socialism. But this is not real
    socialism. To embrace socialism is to embrace revolutionary changes in our social relations. Until Americans are united as workers, socialism in America is just a more benign version of capitalism. Perhaps this is what the millennials really want, but they want to shock the elders by demanding socialism.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Mike Powell on Sunday, July 11, 2021 08:52:14
    On 07 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

    You cannot have full socialism where there is not authoritarianism, least not anywhere that you are trying to force it on a group that tasted any level of freedom.

    Nor full democracy. And that's the #1 reason Trump had to go.

    I could sure go for some mean tweets now and gas prices at 1.87 per gallon vs what they are now.

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:28:52
    On 10 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    But in three of the four listed, they are not contradictory terms and, in the fourth, they are not necessarily contradictory. In most cases, for a kid, I would say "both!"

    That's not the point. The point is to choose which in each pair one considers more important in children. It doesn't necessarily preclude the other; it's just a question of values and priorities.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, July 11, 2021 13:07:54
    On 11 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    Putting "socialism is an absolute failure" into a search engine does disprove my statement.
    Sure it does there are millions who have suffered under socialism, by searching for such a phrase it confirms, just how wrong you are.

    Sure, and millions have suffered under capitalism, too. However, by doing a biased search, you discard instances where socialism such as universal healthcare has worked.

    We'll see. Of course I hope nothing happens to the US, my c every empire over the ages has fallen. Every single one.
    Why you are thumbing your nose at America, pointing out all the bad that this Nation as done. What are you doing to ensure it does not fall? You're not helping whatsoever, now hold the flashlight, while we fix things. or get back into the house and play with your toys.

    Confronting one's own mortality, whether personal or national, is not
    thumbing one's nose. As for what I'm doing to ensure that it does not fall,
    I'm supporting progressive policies that put the well-being of all citizens ahead of that of a select few.

    Leftists are indoctrinating our children to be dysfunctional liberals. Eco-anxiety. Transgenderism. White Privilege. The anti-American, anti-Christian left is teaching our children to be confused, unstable, insane, hateful adults like themselves, if you can call them adults at all. Being more advanced in years without being mature or educated does not make you an adult.
    Giving these people their way when they are mentally, emotionally, and socially dysfunctional is not benefiting society.
    It's corrupting our culture.

    These are topics that need to be addressed, rather than burying our heads in the sand like ostriches. Adults who are aware of these issues are more American, Christian, stable, sane, loving people than conservative who oppose them sill ever be. It is those who oppose addressing these issues that are filled with hate. You have admitted it yourself; you see these issues as threats to your religion and country.

    So now you think that the U.S. is a empire?
    Of course it is.
    How liberals view our Nation, is the center of the problem.

    I see.

    America was designed not to be an empire but instead to be a federal republic made up of a central government and state governments which
    were the precursors and creators of the central government. This
    central government founded upon and constrained by a written
    constitution originally presented the world with something new, a
    national government made up of divided co-equal powers. The Congress to make the laws, the executive to enforce the laws, and the judicial to judge if the laws conformed to the Constitution: the guiding light and touch-stone of American limited government. This worked well to
    establish and maintain a republic but it would not foster nor perpetuate an empire.

    And yet, here we are: an empire. If the definition fits...

    And incidentally, our status as an empire is intimately related to our power
    in the world. If one goes, so does the other. Not every empire falls
    overnight; some, like the British Empire, just fade into relative obscurity.

    Thus the Constitution established the framework of what became known as the system of checks and balances. Only congress could make laws, but
    the President could veto them. Congress could over-ride a president's veto, but the Supreme Court could declare laws unconstitutional making them null and void. The president is in charge of foreign policy and is the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, but the Congress controlled the purse and could cut off funding. Upon petition the Supreme Court could declare the actions of the president unconstitutional yet the president could appoint justices to the Supreme Court.

    Nothing in the Constitution precludes the US from becoming an empire.

    No, America Is Not Collapsing Like The Roman Empire Did https://tinyurl.com/uuheb9ts

    Not yet. We're still young'uns, though.

    In a recent poll, most Americans (including Jeff Thiele) believe that "socialism is about universal health care or tuition free education." Socialism, however, is really a social revolution that drastically
    changes the relations between workers and capitalists. If capitalism is
    an economic system that, with the support of the state's coercive apparatus, puts owners above workers, then socialism is an economic
    system that eliminates the role of the capitalists becoming workers once again.

    This is nonsensical garbage. Universal healthcare does not alter the relationship between workers and capitalists, except that workers no longer rely on capitalists to provide healthcare where that was once the case.
    College educations also make workers more valuable to capitalists (albeit
    more of a threat to Republicans).

    This fundamental change in our social relations requires simply more
    than the successful implementation of universal health care or tuition free education or even a state-controlled economy. The Soviet Union,
    which had a centrally-planned economy, was probably too poor or lacked
    the capital accumulation to transition successfully to socialism. If socialism is understood as the state controlling the means of
    production, then the bureaucrats assume the coercive powers of the state the courts, police and military. As we know, this concentration of state power often leads to abuses. And the social relations between workers
    and bosses remain unchanged.

    So here we go. If universal healthcare is not socialism, then why do you keep calling progressives "socialists" when they bring it up?

    What needs to be changed is the social relations, the hierarchical relations between capitalists and workers. The hierarchical work organization of capitalism that places capitalists above workers was required for state accumulation. The average individuals have a tendency to spend and not save. State survival and expansion depended continuous accumulation. There is a mutual dependency between capitalists and the state. But, I think, once some level of accumulation has been achieved, the role of the capitalists becomes unnecessary.

    Actually, this is more garbage. At the time the Constitution was written, workers had much more of an ownership stake in the businesses they worked for than they do now. I suggest you research the (often violent) labor disputes that gradually changed this dynamic in favor of capitalists.

    America is the richest and most powerful country in the world. If there
    is a first country to transition to socialism, America would be the one. But the history of socialism in America is relatively weak compared to those of other countries. American workers don't necessary always share the same interests. Americans are divided over on the issues of race, gender, and party politics. Class consciousness has been severely weakened.

    No one is suggesting state ownership of the means of production. You're intentionally blurring the definition of socialism, making it apply to universal healthcare when it suits your agenda, but making it only refer to state ownership of the means of production when that suits your agenda. Make
    up your mind.

    Perhaps because in America many still believe in becoming their own bosses. Every talented tech worker wants to be an entrepreneur. The problem, thus, with socialism in America is that everyone here wants to become a capitalist. But this American Dream is becoming increasingly unreachable for many young people. Small businesses are disappearing. Large ones are consolidating and merging into even larger entities. The startups of yesterday have become Big Tech.

    That is a failure of unfetterd capitalism, not socialism. A very few
    accumulate more and more, while the rest see their dreams and wealth
    evaporate.

    Americans, particularly young Americans, are frustrated with the chances they are given. The economic pie is getting larger, but they are not getting a bigger piece of it. And they turn to socialism. But this is
    not real socialism. To embrace socialism is to embrace revolutionary changes in our social relations. Until Americans are united as workers, socialism in America is just a more benign version of capitalism.
    Perhaps this is what the millennials really want, but they want to shock the elders by demanding socialism.

    Again, you are blurring the definition of socialism. But to address the
    issue, maybe unfettered capitalism needs to be addressed.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to ALAN IANSON on Sunday, July 11, 2021 10:25:00
    Alan leaves out the long wait times Canadians have for treatment for many >> things. Also the lower quality of care and lack of innovation in the
    Canadian health industry.

    I never left out wait times. I was not talking about that.

    That is a talking point someone else brought about.

    I also didn't say the above.

    He also either is not too far from a major metropolitan area, or is not old enough yet, to be told he needs to consider moving to such an area or risk losing some of his benefits.

    I lose no benefits for living in a small town.

    I may have to travel to Vancouver or Kamloops for some treatments or surgery i
    it is ever needed but I am covered no matter where I live.

    Like I said, you must live close enough to those towns. If you lived in Northern Ontario around, say, Terrace Bay (which has a hospital),
    Schreiber, or Jackfish Lake, and you are old enough, you would have
    received such a letter suggesting that you move someplace closer to Toronto
    or another suitable metropolitan area or risk potential loss of benefits.


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  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, July 11, 2021 11:31:00
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    I saw a doctor (head of the pediatrics dept) quit his job after working himself half to death. It looks like there's no amount of money that
    they could have paid him to stay. So what's universal health care going
    to mean for the remaining physicians in that department?

    It means that they burn out sooner - and fewer doctors - and more burned out doctors means that fewer people will become doctors - and even even less doctors.

    Universal healthcare seems to be on the back burner for Democrats right now. They already have enough schemes in action to milk the taxpayers
    dry, don't they? Maybe Joe/George will throw that crap at us at the end
    of their term if the easier stuff doesn't cut it for them.

    Probably. "Universal health care" is just another leftie mechanism for controlling
    the people.


    ... I am in total control, but don't tell my wife.
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  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Mike Powell on Sunday, July 11, 2021 11:36:00
    Mike Powell wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

    Otherwise, without the non-socialist actions that bring in the tax revenue, there is no $$$ to redistribute and pay for the programs.

    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
    - Margaret Thatcher

    Socialism never creates. It only redistributes the current pie.
    Capitalism makes bigger pies.

    That is the only way a fully-socialist, or communist,
    economy/government works. My opinion is that they do not last as long,
    so it is questionable whether they really do "work" beyond a generation
    or two.

    They can't. No new wealth is created. Those who create either leave or stop creating. No revenue in means no money out and everying collapses.

    Of course, lefties will always counter with "but that wasn't real socialism" and "we
    didn't run it, so we can do so much better" - which is what was said every other time
    it was tried - and failed, for exactly the same reasons.


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  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Mike Powell on Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:05:00
    Mike Powell wrote to DALE SHIPP <=-

    As I have mentioned in an answer to Jeff today, in most cases both
    sides of each question are important if you want your kid to grow up
    and be able to take care of themselves. I would not be able to choose
    one being better than the other for three of the four listed.

    But applying thought and thinking about both sides of a question:
    1. Go against the Leftie process of deciding based solely on your feelings which...
    2. Makes it much harder to push people to (what the Lefties think) is the "right" answer.


    ... Age and treachery can always overcome youth and skill.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:24:00
    Gregory Deyss wrote to Jeff Thiele <=-

    Giving these people their way when they are mentally, emotionally, and socially dysfunctional is not benefiting society.
    It's corrupting our culture.

    I recently watched scene from "Captain America - The Winter Soldier" that gave me chills.

    In this scene, a villian said "Hydra was created because they believed that humanity could not be trusted with its own freedom. What we did not realize was that if you try to take that freedom, they resist. The war taught us much.
    Humanity needed to surrender its freedom willingly. ... For 70 years Hydra has been secretly feeding crime, reeping war. And when history did not cooperate, it was changed. Hydra has created a world so chaotic that humanity is finally ready to sacrifice its freedom to gain its security."

    Even though this is fiction, I could not avoid thinking this is actually happening. Replace "Hydra" with "socialism".

    The Lefties believe that they are the Anointed Ones, who are born to rule and that everyone else can't be trusted to make their own decisions. We have resisted socialism because we know the problems it causes. But the Leftie have worked for many decades to destroy the culture, which is the basis for creating a chaotic world. False Narratives are constantly created and pushed through the largest megaphones available (education, Media) and they seek to rewrite history.

    The Left has fed crime (no cash bail, no arrest for crimes < $950, etc.). They have messed up all the peace deals Trump has done and are fomenting strife in the world.

    Look at how many sheeple willingly went with the lockdowns and wore the face diapers (that Fauci's emails show they knew would do NOTHING).

    I fear that the sheeple will willing give up their rights - taking mine along with it
    - to have "security".

    Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


    ... Kinky: Using A Feather. Sick: Using The Whole Chicken
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.3 to Mike Powell on Monday, July 12, 2021 18:02:58
    Mike Powell wrote to ALAN IANSON <=-

    That is a talking point someone else brought about.

    I also didn't say the above.

    It's what you are saying.

    I lose no benefits for living in a small town.

    I may have to travel to Vancouver or Kamloops for some treatments or surgery if it is ever needed but I am covered no matter where I live.

    Like I said, you must live close enough to those towns.

    Three hours to Kamloops or five hours to Vancouver. I can get most everything I need in town or Kelowna one hour away aside from brain or heart surgery.

    If you lived in Northern Ontario around, say, Terrace Bay (which has a hospital), Schreiber, or Jackfish Lake, and you are old enough, you would have received such a letter suggesting that you move someplace closer to Toronto or another suitable metropolitan area or risk potential loss of benefits.

    I'll bet there are many in Kentucky who travel to Louisville for surgery or treatment for similar reasons.

    There is no risk of potential loss of benefits based on where you live although you may have to travel for treatment.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Itisdifficulttobeverycreativewithonlyfiftysevencharacters

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.3)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Sunday, July 11, 2021 15:40:11
    We're an open border country. Are we not going to offer universal hea care to all who enter? That would be a lousy way to treat our new neighbors.

    We're not an "open border country." People get deported pretty much
    daily.

    Our borders are currently closed to legal migration, but undocumented migrants are pouring in at a rate of 4 million per year (that we know of.) It's wide open. People in descent central American countries are pissed. They want Trump back. "Go home Que Mala! We prefer Trump!"

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Monday, July 12, 2021 22:49:58
    On 11 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    We're not an "open border country." People get deported pretty much daily.
    Our borders are currently closed to legal migration, but undocumented migrants are pouring in at a rate of 4 million per year (that we know
    of.) It's wide open. People in descent central American countries are pissed. They want Trump back. "Go home Que Mala! We prefer Trump!"

    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, as you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Jeff Thiele on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 07:55:21
    On 12 Jul 2021, Jeff Thiele said the following...

    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, as you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.

    What is your understanding on the matter?
    Do you think that the people that are coming to the U.S. / Mexican border
    are only from the Western Hemisphere?

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to GREGORY DEYSS on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 14:16:00
    I could sure go for some mean tweets now and gas prices at 1.87 per gallon vs what they are now.

    I would be willing to trade a few mean tweets here and there for < $3/gallon gas. :( I am not even on twitter so how would I know. Seems like it was
    only his die-hard followers, the press, and die-hard detractors who paid attention to his every tweet anyway. :)


    * SLMR 2.1a * Do you have such a thing?
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to GREGORY DEYSS on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 15:07:00
    Putting "socialism is an absolute failure" into a search engine does not disprove my statement.

    https://tinyurl.com/s242dbk

    Sure it does there are millions who have suffered under socialism, by searching for such a phrase it confirms, just how wrong you are.

    But, Gregory, Cuba is THRIVING right now. Just look at the news lately at
    all of their citizens playing in the streets, attacking cops, and waiving American flags. Heck if you remove the flag, it is a lot like here!

    Then there is Venezuela. They are THRIVING, too. So are all the other
    Central American countries that have tried socialism over the past 40 or so years. They are all soooo successful that Hollywood elites are leaving our country in droves to move to these places, leaving California in shambles.

    Why you are thumbing your nose at America, pointing out all the bad that this Nation as done. What are you doing to ensure it does not fall?
    You're not helping whatsoever, now hold the flashlight, while we fix things. or get back into the house and play with your toys.

    And yet he doesn't want to leave. That tells you something.

    In a recent poll, most Americans (including Jeff Thiele) believe that "socialism is about universal health care or tuition free education."

    Those are only social(ist) programs that rely on heavy taxes of capitalism.

    Socialism, however, is really a social revolution that drastically changes the relations between workers and capitalists. If capitalism is an economic system that, with the support of the state's coercive apparatus, puts owners above workers, then socialism is an economic system that eliminates the role of the capitalists becoming workers once again.

    Without some capitalism funding the social(ist) programs, those programs
    would eventually dry up.

    America is the richest and most powerful country in the world. If there is a first country to transition to socialism, America would be the one. But the history of socialism in America is relatively weak compared to those of other countries. American workers don't necessary always share the same interests. Americans are divided over on the issues of race, gender, and party politics. Class consciousness has been severely weakened.

    Most countries that have (temporarily) made a successful transition to a socialist economy have done so by removing those that were not of the same race, class, or background from those that are in charge.

    All these folks that believe that socialism = everyone of all walks of life living together in harmony have not learned much from history.

    Americans, particularly young Americans, are frustrated with the chances they are given. The economic pie is getting larger, but they are not getting a bigger piece of it. And they turn to socialism. But this is not real socialism. To embrace socialism is to embrace revolutionary changes in our social relations. Until Americans are united as workers, socialism in America is just a more benign version of capitalism. Perhaps this is what the millennials really want, but they want to shock the elders by demanding socialism.

    It isn't just the millennials. Many of my college classmates in the
    1980s-90s thought they wanted socialism, or full-blown communism, too.
    Some of them were real upset when the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe
    started falling. The "we could do it better and make it work" mantra ran strong with them. They were also not above the idea that removing those
    that opposed them was ok.

    I am not in contact with many of them, but the few I am still in contact
    with still want it. They are the ones that still don't have careers of
    their own and are living off of their spouses and/or kids and/or the government.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Doubt is the root of education, not faith.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Mike Powell on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 07:30:02
    On 13 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

    I could sure go for some mean tweets now and gas prices at 1.87 per gall what they are now.

    I would be willing to trade a few mean tweets here and there for < $3/gallon gas. :( I am not even on twitter so how would I know. Seems like it was only his die-hard followers, the press, and die-hard detractors who paid attention to his every tweet anyway. :)

    I was on twitter until the day that Donald Trump was banned from the platform. I left along with Rush Limbaugh as well as many others.
    Maybe the real issue was not so much that they were mean tweets, but
    perhaps they exposed those on the left for who they are really are?

    . ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
    _[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ God Bless ³ ³ Another Message ³
    { NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ America ³ ³ by Gregory ³
    / 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 16:11:41
    Hello Greg,

    I could sure go for some mean tweets now and gas prices at 1.87 per
    gall
    what they are now.

    I would be willing to trade a few mean tweets here and there for <
    $3/gallon gas. :( I am not even on twitter so how would I know.
    Seems
    like it was only his die-hard followers, the press, and die-hard
    detractors who paid attention to his every tweet anyway. :)

    I was on twitter until the day that Donald Trump was banned from the platform.

    So were lots of other folks.

    I left along with Rush Limbaugh as well as many others.

    Rush Limbaugh did like Elvis and left the building permanently.

    Maybe the real issue was not so much that they were mean tweets, but perhaps they exposed those on the left for who they are really are?

    Twitter banned Donald Trump due to what he did.

    --Lee

    --
    Popular vote!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to GREGORY DEYSS on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 16:31:00
    I was on twitter until the day that Donald Trump was banned from the platform.
    I left along with Rush Limbaugh as well as many others.
    Maybe the real issue was not so much that they were mean tweets, but
    perhaps they exposed those on the left for who they are really are?

    My belief is that there was a mix of both. Also, exposing some was
    probably seen as mean by those same people (or people who like them).


    * SLMR 2.1a * I'm easy to please ... as long as I get my way
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to GREGORY DEYSS on Wednesday, July 14, 2021 16:36:00
    What is your understanding on the matter?
    Do you think that the people that are coming to the U.S. / Mexican border
    are only from the Western Hemisphere?

    That is not my belief. I don't know how common they are, but there have
    been various cases this year of people trying to come across the US-Mexican border who are from Asia (China, India), the Middle East, and Africa.

    I would not doubt that a coyote would be willing to help (or take advantage
    of) anyone who is willing to pay their rates, regardless of country of origin.

    Back during the Obama administration, there used to be claims from border
    area ranchers that prayer rugs and other things not usually associated with Mexico/Central America were found on their property. I cannot speak to the truthfulness of these claims.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Just one more compile and I'll come to bed...
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron Lauzon on Monday, July 12, 2021 23:01:05
    dry, don't they? Maybe Joe/George will throw that crap at us at the e of their term if the easier stuff doesn't cut it for them.

    Probably. "Universal health care" is just another leftie mechanism for controlling
    the people.

    Healthcare is a topic that stirs emotions for a lot of people. Obama fooled
    the crap out of people with his false advertisement (myself included) and now it's Joe's turn to play around with it. Let's see how many suckerfish he can reel in!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Gregory Deyss on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 07:47:23
    On 13 Jul 2021, Gregory Deyss said the following...
    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.
    What is your understanding on the matter?
    Do you think that the people that are coming to the U.S. / Mexican
    border are only from the Western Hemisphere?

    My understanding of the matter is that the vast majority of people that are coming to the U.S./Mexican border are seeking asylum in the U.S. My understanding is that these people do not cross the border and then try to remain hidden, but turn themselves in to Border Patrol agents at the first possible opportunity, in order to achieve their goal of requesting asylum. My understanding is that in areas where there is a wall, that wall is not
    actually on the border itself, but set back on the U.S. side, and the people seeking asylum do not need to cross the wall; instead, they are led through gates in the wall by Border Patrol agents after announcing their intention to request asylum. My understanding is that they are then taken into
    custody, interviewed, and a preliminary asylum decision is made, at which time they are "documented." My understanding is that many of them do, in fact,
    have ID and other identifying papers to bolster their claim for asylum. My understanding is that some people do attempt to enter the U.S. and remain hidden, but those people are in the minority and are not to be confused with the larger group seeking asylum. My understanding is that the people sneaking in are pursued just as they always have been and are deported when caught.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Thursday, July 15, 2021 12:17:15
    On 13 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    But, Gregory, Cuba is THRIVING right now. Just look at the news lately
    at all of their citizens playing in the streets, attacking cops, and waiving American flags. Heck if you remove the flag, it is a lot like here!
    Then there is Venezuela. They are THRIVING, too. So are all the other Central American countries that have tried socialism over the past 40 or so years. They are all soooo successful that Hollywood elites are
    leaving our country in droves to move to these places, leaving
    California in shambles.

    And England, France, Sweden, Canada... Are these not socialist countries as well?

    Why you are thumbing your nose at America, pointing out all the bad that Nation as done. What are you doing to ensure it does not fall?
    You're not helping whatsoever, now hold the flashlight, while we fix thi or get back into the house and play with your toys.

    And yet he doesn't want to leave. That tells you something.

    Of course not. I have just as much right to be here as you do.

    In a recent poll, most Americans (including Jeff Thiele) believe that "socialism is about universal health care or tuition free education."
    Those are only social(ist) programs that rely on heavy taxes of capitalism.

    First of all, I don't recall participating in an polls. And second of all, if "universal health care or tuition free education" define socialism, then
    there are a lot of socialist countries that are doing quite well.

    Socialism, however, is really a social revolution that drastically chang the relations between workers and capitalists. If capitalism is an econo system that, with the support of the state's coercive apparatus, puts ow above workers, then socialism is an economic system that eliminates the of the capitalists becoming workers once again.
    Without some capitalism funding the social(ist) programs, those programs would eventually dry up.

    Explain those socialist countries that are doing quite well, then.

    America is the richest and most powerful country in the world. If there first country to transition to socialism, America would be the one. But history of socialism in America is relatively weak compared to those of countries. American workers don't necessary always share the same intere Americans are divided over on the issues of race, gender, and party poli Class consciousness has been severely weakened.
    Most countries that have (temporarily) made a successful transition to a socialist economy have done so by removing those that were not of the
    same race, class, or background from those that are in charge.

    Oh, really? Like, say, Norway?

    All these folks that believe that socialism = everyone of all walks of life living together in harmony have not learned much from history.

    That's not the point. The richest country on the planet should not have
    masses of people suffering from poverty.

    Americans, particularly young Americans, are frustrated with the chances are given. The economic pie is getting larger, but they are not getting bigger piece of it. And they turn to socialism. But this is not real socialism. To embrace socialism is to embrace revolutionary changes in o social relations. Until Americans are united as workers, socialism in Am is just a more benign version of capitalism. Perhaps this is what the millennials really want, but they want to shock the elders by demanding socialism.
    It isn't just the millennials. Many of my college classmates in the 1980s-90s thought they wanted socialism, or full-blown communism, too. Some of them were real upset when the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe started falling. The "we could do it better and make it work" mantra ran strong with them. They were also not above the idea that removing those that opposed them was ok.

    And yet, socialism has apparently worked well in many countries. Not, of course, the "full-blown communism" you describe here, but you're
    intentionally blurring the line between the two, aren't you?

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Thursday, July 15, 2021 16:14:00
    But, Gregory, Cuba is THRIVING right now. Just look at the news lately at all of their citizens playing in the streets, attacking cops, and waiving American flags. Heck if you remove the flag, it is a lot like here!
    Then there is Venezuela. They are THRIVING, too. So are all the other Central American countries that have tried socialism over the past 40 or so years. They are all soooo successful that Hollywood elites are leaving our country in droves to move to these places, leaving California in shambles.

    And England, France, Sweden, Canada... Are these not socialist countries as well?

    We've already covered that. Non socialist countries using capitalism to fund social(ist) programs.

    Why you are thumbing your nose at America, pointing out all the bad tha
    Nation as done. What are you doing to ensure it does not fall?
    You're not helping whatsoever, now hold the flashlight, while we fix th
    or get back into the house and play with your toys.

    And yet he doesn't want to leave. That tells you something.

    Of course not. I have just as much right to be here as you do.

    I like it here. You are the one that wants us to change things so that you
    can like it. If England, France, Sweden, or Canada do things more to your liking, why should we change just so that you can be happy?

    Could it be that these places are not really as perfect as you claim?

    Without some capitalism funding the social(ist) programs, those program

    Explain those socialist countries that are doing quite well, then.

    We've already covered that. Non socialist countries using capitalism to fund social(ist) programs.

    If those countries are doing so well, why would you not consider moving to
    one of them?

    Most countries that have (temporarily) made a successful transition to a socialist economy have done so by removing those that were not of the same race, class, or background from those that are in charge.

    Oh, really? Like, say, Norway?

    Norway is NOT socialist.

    And yet, socialism has apparently worked well in many countries. Not, of course, the "full-blown communism" you describe here, but you're intentionally blurring the line between the two, aren't you?

    You calling countries socialist when they are not doesn't blur any lines?


    * SLMR 2.1a * Florida -- the Punshine State.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Thursday, July 15, 2021 21:49:10
    On 15 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    And England, France, Sweden, Canada... Are these not socialist countries well?
    We've already covered that. Non socialist countries using capitalism to fund social(ist) programs.

    So if the US followed in their footsteps, would we not continue to be a capitalist country? Or would we be doomed to failure like Cuba and Venezuela? Your argument doesn't hold water.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:120/457 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 16, 2021 08:27:33
    Mike Powell wrote to JEFF THIELE <=-

    You calling countries socialist when they are not doesn't blur any
    lines?

    He's echoing the Bernie smoke screen during the last campaign.

    "We don't want Socialism. We want Democratic Socialism like Denmark..."

    First, putting the word "Democratic" before the word "Socialism" doesn't change the meaning of "socialism".

    But Denmark came back shortly after that to say that they weren't socialist. They were capitalist, but had big social programs - that they were looking to get rid of because they didn't work.


    ... Never hit a man with glasses. Use your fist!
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Aaron Thomas on Thursday, July 15, 2021 08:13:00
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    Healthcare is a topic that stirs emotions for a lot of people. Obama fooled the crap out of people with his false advertisement (myself included) and now it's Joe's turn to play around with it. Let's see how many suckerfish he can reel in!

    Dems are good at suckering people. But it's hard to show people (especially ones who won't do their own research and just listen to the Propaganda) that every Leftie plan always has the opposite impact of what they say it will have.

    The good news is that 2016-2020 ripped the mask off the Lefties. The latest polls are showing that a growing population of people who were suckered by the Lefties are waking up.


    ... I have a firm grip on reality. Now I can strangle it.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Gregory Deyss on Thursday, July 15, 2021 08:28:00
    Gregory Deyss wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I was on twitter until the day that Donald Trump was banned from the platform. I left along with Rush Limbaugh as well as many others.
    Maybe the real issue was not so much that they were mean tweets, but perhaps they exposed those on the left for who they are really are?

    But to the Left, that's "mean".

    This hits home, sort of. I used to work for a company that promoted "dignity and respect". It was sold as just be nice. You know, "Praise in public, but criticize in private" and seemed like a good thing.

    It's real purpose was to squash any negative feedback to management's mistakes.

    The company had a history of hire, layoff, hire, layoff... But it's interesting that the management never is part of the layoff part.

    So they hire people, then things aren't working, so they get rid of the problem (employees). Then they do it again. All while keeping the same management - who actually causes the problems.


    ... I have been poor and I have been rich. Rich is better.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Mike Powell on Thursday, July 15, 2021 08:30:00
    Mike Powell wrote to GREGORY DEYSS <=-

    Back during the Obama administration, there used to be claims from
    border area ranchers that prayer rugs and other things not usually associated with Mexico/Central America were found on their property. I cannot speak to the truthfulness of these claims.

    **That's** something that I hadn't heard about before. But it doesn't susprise me in the least.


    ... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON LAUZON on Friday, July 16, 2021 17:57:00
    But Denmark came back shortly after that to say that they weren't socialist.

    My recollection is that the Danish official who responded to that was not
    at all happy about Denmark being painted as socialist.

    I also think it is humourous that the folks who like to point to Denmark, Sweden, etc., as successful socialist countries, never bring up Greece.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Assumption is the mother of all screw-ups.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Friday, July 16, 2021 18:01:00
    On 15 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    And England, France, Sweden, Canada... Are these not socialist countrie
    well?
    We've already covered that. Non socialist countries using capitalism to fund social(ist) programs.

    So if the US followed in their footsteps, would we not continue to be a capitalist country? Or would we be doomed to failure like Cuba and Venezuela? Your argument doesn't hold water.

    We would be doomed to eventual failure like Greece, a non-socialist country whose social(ist) programs forced it to be in need of a bailout a few years back when the number of their citizens on various government assistance programs caused their expenditures to far exceed revenue.


    * SLMR 2.1a * The Magic of Windows: Turns a Pentium back into an XT.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Ron Lauzon on Friday, July 16, 2021 17:12:27
    On 15 Jul 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...
    Back during the Obama administration, there used to be claims from border area ranchers that prayer rugs and other things not usually associated with Mexico/Central America were found on their property. cannot speak to the truthfulness of these claims.

    **That's** something that I hadn't heard about before. But it doesn't susprise me in the least.

    The "prayer rug" trned out to be an Adidas soccer jersey, and although an annotated Farsi/English dictionary was also found, it was in the wrong direction to be helpful to an Iranian. (It was focused on English->Farsi, rather than Farsi->English).

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, July 16, 2021 17:38:55
    On 16 Jul 2021, Mike Powell said the following...
    So if the US followed in their footsteps, would we not continue to be a capitalist country? Or would we be doomed to failure like Cuba and Venez Your argument doesn't hold water.
    We would be doomed to eventual failure like Greece, a non-socialist country whose social(ist) programs forced it to be in need of a bailout
    a few years back when the number of their citizens on various government assistance programs caused their expenditures to far exceed revenue.

    Would we? I notice that you pick one country that had problems and ignore dozens of others that haven't, and conclude that we are doomed to the fate of the one. That's not very responsible reasoning.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Thursday, July 15, 2021 01:23:02
    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, as you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.

    You're ignorantly pretending that all illegal migrants are applying for
    asylum. It's obvious that you're full of it. You refuse to admit that illegal immigrants exist. I should just agree with you because that would be
    the convenient thing for both of us.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Friday, July 16, 2021 22:47:00
    On 15 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.
    You're ignorantly pretending that all illegal migrants are applying for asylum. It's obvious that you're full of it. You refuse to admit that illegal immigrants exist. I should just agree with you because that
    would be the convenient thing for both of us.

    Not so. I'm differenctiating between the two groups, which you are not.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON LAUZON on Saturday, July 17, 2021 10:42:00
    Back during the Obama administration, there used to be claims from border area ranchers that prayer rugs and other things not usually associated with Mexico/Central America were found on their property. I cannot speak to the truthfulness of these claims.

    **That's** something that I hadn't heard about before. But it doesn't susprise
    me in the least.

    It was on "the news" but since it was long enough ago that I cannot
    remember which news, I cannot cite where I saw it so I am not willing to
    claim it is 100% true since I would likely have difficulty defending it.

    It was a TV news interview, that much I remember, so it is probably out on
    the internet somewhere. If you do a search on "ranchers and prayer rugs,"
    you will find some more-recent hits (2019) where Trump claimed it was
    happening then in TX and fact-checkers say it didn't. This was longer ago than that, and my recollection is that it was in AZ or NM.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Oxymoron: Systematically at Random.
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, July 18, 2021 00:26:00
    On 07-15-21 01:23, Aaron Thomas <=-
    spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Tired of Trump's crap <=-


    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, as you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.

    You're ignorantly pretending that all illegal migrants are applying
    for asylum. It's obvious that you're full of it. You refuse to admit
    that illegal immigrants exist. I should just agree with you because
    that would be the convenient thing for both of us.

    Read what he said again, especially where he said "two groups of
    people". One group would be those who sneak in and attempt to avoid
    border patrol. The other group would be those who cross the border and
    turn themselves into border patrol asking for asylum.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:29:23, 18 Jul 2021
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:120/457 to Mike Powell on Saturday, July 17, 2021 19:25:11
    Mike Powell wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    I also think it is humourous that the folks who like to point to
    Denmark, Sweden, etc., as successful socialist countries, never bring
    up Greece.

    Or Venesuela and there's a complete media blackout on Cuba right now.

    But according to Lefties, those weren't "real" socialist countries.


    ... I used to jog, but the ice kept falling out of my glass.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, July 18, 2021 12:35:57
    On 15 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.
    You're ignorantly pretending that all illegal migrants are applying for asylum. It's obvious that you're full of it. You refuse to admit that illegal immigrants exist. I should just agree with you because that
    would be the convenient thing for both of us.

    That's not what I said at all. Nice try, though.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, July 18, 2021 16:39:53
    On 15 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    Applying for asylum is legal immigration. Asylum applicants are not "undocumented." You're intentionally confusing two groups of people, you have done before and no doubt will do again. Understanding these things is obviously not your strong suit.
    You're ignorantly pretending that all illegal migrants are applying for asylum. It's obvious that you're full of it. You refuse to admit that illegal immigrants exist. I should just agree with you because that
    would be the convenient thing for both of us.

    I am not pretending that at all, but you are. I suspect that logic, like
    math, is not your strong suit.

    Undocumented immigrants do exist. I have never denied that. And you can
    accuse them of what you'd like. But the instant that you accuse them of
    taking immigration slots from others or being flown around in jets, it's obvious that you are not talking about undocumented immigrants but rather refugees. By referring to them as "illegal" immigrants and then mentioning circumstances that apply only to those lawfully seeking asylum, it's clear
    that you are dishonestly trying to conflate the two completely different
    groups of people. The same thing happens when you accuse asylum-seekers of sneaking into the country and committing crimes; that's not how it happens.

    Please try to keep the two groups separate in your head, and maybe everyone will stop rolling their eyes and laughing at you.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Squires@1:120/457 to Jeff Thiele on Monday, July 19, 2021 16:21:44
    Undocumented immigrants do exist. I have never denied that. And you can accuse them of what you'd like. But the instant that you accuse them of taking immigration slots from others or being flown around in jets, it's obvious that you are not talking about undocumented immigrants but rather refugees. By referring to them as "illegal" immigrants and then
    mentioning circumstances that apply only to those lawfully seeking
    asylum, it's clear that you are dishonestly trying to conflate the two completely different groups of people. The same thing happens when you accuse asylum-seekers of sneaking into the country and committing
    crimes; that's not how it happens.

    OK, there are undocumented people who come into this country not using the proper channels. These are illegal aliens... Now there are others who show up at the border and claim they need asylum because they fear for there life in the country they are coming from. 98% of these are no different the the first group I described with the exception they are trying to use a legal channel to get in under false circumstances. It's really very simple, those who want to seek asylum in our country should be housed in a fenced in encampment till they can have there story checked out. If there story checks out they get a visa, if not they get shipped back to wherever they came. Oh yeah the first group, when they get caught they get sent back too. If I tried to cross the border into Canada claiming asylum I would not be allowed to roam around the country freely till a judge heard my case.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Monday, July 19, 2021 16:07:05
    On 19 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    OK, there are undocumented people who come into this country not using
    the proper channels. These are illegal aliens... Now there are others
    who show up at the border and claim they need asylum because they fear
    for there life in the country they are coming from. 98% of these are no different the the first group I described with the exception they are trying to use a legal channel to get in under false circumstances. It's

    I strongly question your 98% statistic and am curious where that came from.

    really very simple, those who want to seek asylum in our country should
    be housed in a fenced in encampment till they can have there story
    checked out. If there story checks out they get a visa, if not they get shipped back to wherever they came. Oh yeah the first group, when they

    The people seeking asylum are kept in custody until they are interviewed by a Border Patrol officer. The officer makes a preliminary judgement as to
    whether they qualify to stay or are to be deported. Not everyone who reaches this stage is allowed to stay.

    shipped back to wherever they came. Oh yeah the first group, when they
    get caught they get sent back too. If I tried to cross the border into Canada claiming asylum I would not be allowed to roam around the country freely till a judge heard my case.

    The first group are sent back. I don't know about Canada's laws, but these
    are the laws here. However, it should be noted that once that first interview is conducted, the US has information about that person, potentially including name, prospective address, photo, fingerprints, and DNA. At the point that
    they request asylum, though, they are complying with the laws and in good
    legal standing.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Squires@1:120/457 to Jeff Thiele on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 17:47:21
    I strongly question your 98% statistic and am curious where that came from.

    You have over 100 thousand people come over the border most of them are not coming here in fear of there life....
    The people seeking asylum are kept in custody until they are interviewed by a Border Patrol officer. The officer makes a preliminary judgement as to whether they qualify to stay or are to be deported. Not everyone who reaches this stage is allowed to stay.

    Yes you are correct, but many are being sent off to different states where they are housed and supported till either there hearing comes up OR they disappear into the country. In fact Biden's administration has been illegally using a air force base in Texas to fly people to other states..

    The first group are sent back. I don't know about Canada's laws, but
    these are the laws here. However, it should be noted that once that
    first interview is conducted, the US has information about that person, potentially including name, prospective address, photo, fingerprints,
    and DNA. At the point that they request asylum, though, they are
    complying with the laws and in good legal standing.

    Yes but how many remain that way and home many just vanish into the country some where....
    Jeff

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 17:23:51
    On 20 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    I strongly question your 98% statistic and am curious where that came from.
    You have over 100 thousand people come over the border most of them are not coming here in fear of there life....

    You still don't mention the source of that statistic...

    The people seeking asylum are kept in custody until they are intervie by a Border Patrol officer. The officer makes a preliminary judgement to whether they qualify to stay or are to be deported. Not everyone w reaches this stage is allowed to stay.
    Yes you are correct, but many are being sent off to different states
    where they are housed and supported till either there hearing comes up
    OR they disappear into the country. In fact Biden's administration has been illegally using a air force base in Texas to fly people to other states..

    What law has been broken?

    The first group are sent back. I don't know about Canada's laws, but these are the laws here. However, it should be noted that once that first interview is conducted, the US has information about that perso potentially including name, prospective address, photo, fingerprints, and DNA. At the point that they request asylum, though, they are complying with the laws and in good legal standing.
    Yes but how many remain that way and home many just vanish into the country some where....

    According to the courts, the number who show up for their court dates is
    pretty high.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Squires@1:120/457 to Jeff Thiele on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 18:46:13
    You still don't mention the source of that statistic...


    Your point? Since you can't prove I am wrong the point is moot.

    According to the courts, the number who show up for their court dates is pretty high.

    If that is the case then why do we have so many illegal aliens in our country?

    Jeff

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron Lauzon on Friday, July 16, 2021 22:02:25
    Dems are good at suckering people. But it's hard to show people (especially ones who won't do their own research and just listen to the Propaganda) that every Leftie plan always has the opposite impact of
    what they say it will have.

    People worry too much about what others think, and they are conditioned to put into action whatever the media is saying. By laughing hysterically at Stephen Colbert's lame jokes, they're showing solidarity with the media, and with George Floyd; this is how liberals make friends.

    Luckily Joe Manchin's not out trying to make friends in DC; he's trying to
    make friends in his home state. That's what they all should be doing.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Thursday, July 22, 2021 07:48:12
    On 21 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    You still don't mention the source of that statistic...
    Your point? Since you can't prove I am wrong the point is moot.

    Not how it works. You made te claim, you support it, But you're very quick
    to call it moot...

    According to the courts, the number who show up for their court dates pretty high.
    If that is the case then why do we have so many illegal aliens in our country?

    Because the "illegal aliens" aren't refugees who skipped their court dates. A large number of them are people who overstayed their visas.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Aaron Thomas on Thursday, July 22, 2021 08:19:00
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

    People worry too much about what others think,

    This is part of the Leftie conditioning that these people get early on: Base your self-worth on what others think of you.

    and they are conditioned
    to put into action whatever the media is saying. By laughing
    hysterically at Stephen Colbert's lame jokes, they're showing
    solidarity with the media, and with George Floyd; this is how liberals make friends.

    It's also mob-think. Individuals don't matter. It only matters what the collective thinks. And if you differ from the collective, you are punished.

    Another part of the conditioning process: group pressure to avoid wrong-think.

    Luckily Joe Manchin's not out trying to make friends in DC; he's trying
    to make friends in his home state. That's what they all should be
    doing.

    Yup. That's how our system was set up.

    But our system has problems when people collude against the interests of the people.


    ... Never insult 7 men when all you're packing is a 6-shooter
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Thursday, July 22, 2021 14:59:34
    On 21 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    You still don't mention the source of that statistic...
    Your point? Since you can't prove I am wrong the point is moot.

    How about this for proving you wrong? https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-a ttend-immigration-court-hearings

    It turns out you had it pretty much backwards. Of all refugees seeking
    asylum, 89% show up for their final hearing. Of all refugees seeking asylum
    who have access to legal representation, 98% show up.

    If you thought that most of the undocumented immigrants in this country were refugees who skipped their court date, it looks like you have no idea where undocumented immigrants come from. Either you're intentionally ignorant or you're being lied to. Either way, your statistic is way, way off.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Jeff Squires@1:120/457 to Jeff Thiele on Friday, July 23, 2021 07:07:11
    Not how it works. You made te claim, you support it, But you're very quick to call it moot...


    I admit I was wrong, it is closer to 71 percent.. https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/630/

    Of course if I were in charge it would be 98 percent....

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/06/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Communication Connection 1:120/457 (1:120/457)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Jeff Squires on Friday, July 23, 2021 08:14:58
    On 23 Jul 2021, Jeff Squires said the following...
    Not how it works. You made te claim, you support it, But you're very quick to call it moot...
    I admit I was wrong, it is closer to 71 percent.. https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/630/
    Of course if I were in charge it would be 98 percent....

    That's why we don't have dictators.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Dale Shipp on Thursday, July 22, 2021 00:06:21
    people". One group would be those who sneak in and attempt to avoid border patrol. The other group would be those who cross the border and turn themselves into border patrol asking for asylum.

    I went back to his message, about 60 messages ago. I was complaining about the "rate of illegal immigration" and then Jeff said "It's not illegal to apply
    for asylum," as if each and every illegal immigrant is asking for asylum.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, July 25, 2021 23:30:00
    On 07-22-21 00:06, Aaron Thomas <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Tired of Trump's cra <=-


    people". One group would be those who sneak in and attempt to avoid border patrol. The other group would be those who cross the border and turn themselves into border patrol asking for asylum.

    I went back to his message, about 60 messages ago. I was complaining
    about the "rate of illegal immigration" and then Jeff said "It's not illegal to apply for asylum," as if each and every illegal immigrant is asking for asylum.

    Take what he said without assuming things he did not say. I think that
    in his mind you were merging the two groups of immigrants, and that he
    wanted to make the distinction that those who apply for asylum are not
    illegal immigrants.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 23:34:05, 25 Jul 2021
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron Lauzon on Sunday, July 25, 2021 18:41:16
    People worry too much about what others think,

    This is part of the Leftie conditioning that these people get early on: Base your self-worth on what others think of you.

    The big dogs of the left are in on our secret, but their followers are not.

    Another part of the conditioning process: group pressure to avoid wrong-think.

    These people will listen to Joe's false praise all day, but by the end of the day they don't have time to ask "Why?"

    "Why are you filling the country up with illegal migrants?"
    "Why so many unaccompanied minors?"
    "Why are you giving the taliban control of Afghanistan?"
    "Who is buying your son's artwork?"

    He'll answer with stuff like:
    "Because I'm not racist like Trump."
    "Because kids are running away from home because of global warming."
    "Because we need to bring our brave soldiers home."
    "My son is legally allowed to sell his artwork to whomever he wants."

    Then the liberals don't ask any follow-up questions because they're programmed not to, I assume.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Sunday, July 25, 2021 22:15:57
    Because the "illegal aliens" aren't refugees who skipped their court dates. A large number of them are people who overstayed their visas.

    "A large number" doesn't equal all. You're trashing his side of it because that's what Master Soros has programmed you to do.

    You're just like me whereas we're both bad at adding stuff up!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 12:28:31
    On 25 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    Because the "illegal aliens" aren't refugees who skipped their court dates. A large number of them are people who overstayed their visas.
    "A large number" doesn't equal all. You're trashing his side of it
    because that's what Master Soros has programmed you to do.

    "A large number" is also far from none. Seeking asylum is not illegal. Do you or do you not count immigrants who have entered our country seeking asylum as "illegal aliens?"

    You're just like me whereas we're both bad at adding stuff up!

    Nope. I'm just more careful about making generalizations like "all" or
    "never."

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to AARON THOMAS on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 09:26:00
    Quoting Aaron Thomas to Ron Lauzon <=-

    "Why are you filling the country up with illegal migrants?"
    "Why so many unaccompanied minors?"
    "Why are you giving the taliban control of Afghanistan?"
    "Who is buying your son's artwork?"

    He'll answer with stuff like:
    "Because I'm not racist like Trump."
    "Because kids are running away from home because of global warming." "Because we need to bring our brave soldiers home."
    "My son is legally allowed to sell his artwork to whomever he wants."

    Then the liberals don't ask any follow-up questions because they're programmed not to, I assume.

    The current crop of Lefties have no critical thinking skills, so they
    accept Biden's answers as gospel because they make "sense" (whatever
    that is) to them.

    The funny this it that classical Liberals do have critical thinking
    skills and are responding with "What? That makes no sense." The group
    of people who are pro Biden is shrinking every day (and with every
    broken promise).


    ... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Dan Cross@3:770/100 to Ron Lauzon on Thursday, July 29, 2021 03:57:46
    On 28 Jul 2021 at 09:26a, Ron Lauzon pondered and said...

    The funny this it that classical Liberals do have critical thinking
    skills and are responding with "What? That makes no sense." The group
    of people who are pro Biden is shrinking every day (and with every
    broken promise).

    ...says the guy who can't post a coherent argument and has to
    resort to _Fidonet_ for his political discourse.

    Sure thing, bud. Now, get back to changing the oil in my truck.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Jeff Thiele on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 20:50:59
    "A large number" is also far from none. Seeking asylum is not illegal.
    Do you or do you not count immigrants who have entered our country
    seeking asylum as "illegal aliens?"

    I don't get that specific. I also don't call them "illegal aliens" because aliens are legal migrants who have alien registration numbers and/or social security numbers, and/or have been fingerprinted, unlike your homies.

    You're just like me whereas we're both bad at adding stuff up!

    Nope. I'm just more careful about making generalizations like "all" or "never."

    That's not being careful when you say stuff like "a good number of em." That's the opposite of being careful not to generalize.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Aaron Thomas on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 11:28:22
    On 27 Jul 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...
    "A large number" is also far from none. Seeking asylum is not illegal Do you or do you not count immigrants who have entered our country seeking asylum as "illegal aliens?"
    I don't get that specific. I also don't call them "illegal aliens"
    because aliens are legal migrants who have alien registration numbers and/or social security numbers, and/or have been fingerprinted, unlike your homies.

    Perhaps you might see the picture a little clearer if you did get that specific. Because right now you're just flailing.

    You're just like me whereas we're both bad at adding stuff up!
    Nope. I'm just more careful about making generalizations like "all" o "never."
    That's not being careful when you say stuff like "a good number of em." That's the opposite of being careful not to generalize.

    Yes, it is. It means "many, but not all."

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ron Lauzon on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 13:34:20
    The funny this it that classical Liberals do have critical thinking
    skills and are responding with "What? That makes no sense." The group
    of people who are pro Biden is shrinking every day (and with every
    broken promise).

    Thanks for sharing that positive thought!

    There are a lot of smart people who are liberals. They can't keep buying all this garbage forever. It's got to stop some day.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON LAUZON on Thursday, July 29, 2021 15:42:00
    The current crop of Lefties have no critical thinking skills, so they
    accept Biden's answers as gospel because they make "sense" (whatever
    that is) to them.

    If they can make sense of some of his gibberish, more power to them.


    * SLMR 2.1a * A programmer and his mind are soon parted
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to MIKE POWELL on Friday, July 30, 2021 09:07:00
    Quoting Mike Powell to Ron Lauzon <=-

    The current crop of Lefties have no critical thinking skills, so they
    accept Biden's answers as gospel because they make "sense" (whatever
    that is) to them.

    If they can make sense of some of his gibberish, more power to them.

    It probably makes sense to them, seeing the jibberish that comes out of most Leftie mouths.


    ... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere!
    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Aaron Thomas on Sunday, August 01, 2021 15:51:07
    Hello Aaron,

    The funny this it that classical Liberals do have critical thinking
    skills and are responding with "What? That makes no sense." The group
    of people who are pro Biden is shrinking every day (and with every
    broken promise).

    Thanks for sharing that positive thought!

    There are a lot of smart people who are liberals. They can't keep buying all
    this garbage forever. It's got to stop some day.

    Louisiana has the best politicians money can buy.
    Whey they get bought, they stay bought.

    --Lee

    --
    In solidarity - RIP George Floyd - Black Lives Matter

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Lee Lofaso on Sunday, August 01, 2021 14:02:26
    Louisiana has the best politicians money can buy.
    Whey they get bought, they stay bought.

    That's respectable. Elected state officials here are bought by the voters and then they sell themselves to the Democrats later, after we've become comfortable with them. It's annoying.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)