1. Forum
  2. USENET
  3. comp.sys.apple2

  • Re: Is TLS for the IIgs coming later?

    From Andrew Roughan@no_email@invalid.invalid to comp.sys.apple2 on Saturday, July 27, 2024 13:49:43
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Stephen Heumann <stephenheumann@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 7/23/24 9:46 AM, D Finnigan wrote:
    Availability of these hashes and ciphers brings us one step closer to a TLS >> library for the Apple IIgs.

    I actually wrote most of the 65816-crypto package years ago, partially
    with TLS in mind

    Following up publicly after private email seems to have not gotten through (spam perhaps)

    I see you have your own crypto routine library.
    Were you aware of the hashtool and crypto toolsets? I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts about this model of providing routines for
    application reuse. And perhaps you may consider contributing your code to
    them or taking them over?
    QKumba has implemented cha-cha which I requested and should include at some point.

    I think all the available ciphers for IIgs are now deprecated which makes establishing a connection more challenging when the goal posts keep
    changing. Perhaps we can offload the encryption / decryption to some other mechanism (perhaps UltimateDrive could be used).

    Regards
    Andrew
    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From Stephen Heumann@stephenheumann@gmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Saturday, July 27, 2024 19:08:37
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    On 7/27/24 8:49 AM, Andrew Roughan wrote:
    I see you have your own crypto routine library.

    Yes. It's open source and available from my GitHub:

    https://github.com/sheumann/65816-crypto

    There are libraries for the crypto and hash routines, which are usable
    from ORCA/C or ORCA/M, and potentially also from other IIGS languages.

    Were you aware of the hashtool and crypto toolsets? I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts about this model of providing routines for
    application reuse. And perhaps you may consider contributing your code to them or taking them over?
    QKumba has implemented cha-cha which I requested and should include at some point.

    I'm aware of the hash tool and crypto tool. They're valuable tools, but
    they do not currently include all the crypto algorithms needed for SMB
    (or for modern TLS or SSH), so I had to develop some of them myself, and
    it was easiest for me to just make a library containing all the required crypto algorithms.

    I'm probably going to keep my implementations as a library, but others
    are welcome to use it. You or others could also potentially incorporate
    my code into the tools, if you wanted.

    I think all the available ciphers for IIgs are now deprecated which makes establishing a connection more challenging when the goal posts keep
    changing. Perhaps we can offload the encryption / decryption to some other mechanism (perhaps UltimateDrive could be used).

    Some of the crypto algorithms I've implemented are still widely used and
    not deprecated (e.g. AES and SHA-256), but in general the need to keep
    up with evolving cipher suites is definitely a challenge for
    implementing crypto on the IIGS, and some sort of offload mechanism
    might well be more practical than doing everything on the GS.
    --
    Stephen Heumann

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From Oliver Schmidt@ol.sc@web.de to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 30, 2024 06:38:47
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Hi Stephen,

    Perhaps we can offload the encryption / decryption to some other
    mechanism (perhaps UltimateDrive could be used).

    [...] some sort of offload mechanism
    might well be more practical than doing everything on the GS.

    I don't know what the UltimateDrive brings to the table that you desire,
    but...

    1.

    The A2Pico:
    * is software-defined hardware
    * is open source - both hardware and firmware
    * is very DIY friendly due to its through-hole variant without any chips to
    be programmed
    * is available as completely assembled SMD variant for a pretty affordable price
    * comes with a reusable library that contains the code necessary to
    communicate with the A2
    * can easily be programmed in C

    2.

    If you define a "crypto accelerator" software interface based on a
    SmartPort character device, then this interface can be implemented both
    * internally (i.e. based on A2Pico)
    * externally (i.e. based on FujiNet)
    in a similar way a "usual" SmartPort block device can be implemented both internally (i.e. CFFA3000) and externally (i.e. Floppy Emu).

    Oliver
    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From Stephen Heumann@stephenheumann@gmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Wednesday, July 24, 2024 14:49:40
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    On 7/23/24 9:46 AM, D Finnigan wrote:
    As a part of Stephen Heumann's SMB filesystem translator for GS/OS, he also developed 65816 Cryptographic & Hash Libraries which are on GitHub here: https://github.com/sheumann/65816-crypto

    Availability of these hashes and ciphers brings us one step closer to a TLS library for the Apple IIgs.

    I actually wrote most of the 65816-crypto package years ago, partially
    with TLS in mind, but actually implementing TLS on the IIGS would still
    be quite a bit of work and might be prohibitive in terms of performance.

    The biggest issue with TLS would be establishing the connection and negotiating the encryption keys. That phase of TLS normally requires public-key cryptography algorithms, which are not currently included in
    the 65816-crypto package and which can be quite slow.

    If you could get past that phase to the point of sending encrypted data
    back and forth, then algorithms in the 65816-crypto package (e.g. AES
    and HMAC-SHA256) could be used. That would still be pretty slow, but
    maybe usable for some things, especially on an accelerated IIGS.
    --
    Stephen Heumann

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2