• Re: How can I tell what I've got in a TransWarp GS?

    From Michael Pender@mpender@hotmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Monday, July 21, 2003 20:46:09
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Scott V. McGuire <fake@f.a.k.e.net> wrote in message news:slrnbhogh0.jhk.fake@homebox1.dyndns.org...
    I picked up a TransWarp GS recently. How can I find out what speed
    the processor is running at and how much cache it has? I know what
    the standard speed is, but I don't know if this one has ever been
    modified.

    Cheers
    -Scott

    I think the Transwarp GS card is supposed to have a crystal on it that determines the effective speed of the card. The speed of the card in full clock cycles / second is 1/4 the speed of the crystal.

    For example, a standard 8 MHz Transwarp GS should have a 32 MHz crystal,
    while a card that has been modified to run at 10 MHz should have a 40 MHz crystal.

    - Mike


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  • From Liam Busey@buseyl@yahoo.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Monday, July 21, 2003 22:07:00
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


    Scott V. McGuire <fake@f.a.k.e.net> wrote in message news:slrnbhogh0.jhk.fake@homebox1.dyndns.org...
    I picked up a TransWarp GS recently. How can I find out what speed
    the processor is running at and how much cache it has? I know what
    the standard speed is, but I don't know if this one has ever been
    modified.

    Check the number on the crystal (retangular metal can at end of card) and divide that by 4. A 28mhz crystal would give you a 7mhz TWGS. I believe the TWGS CDA will tell you how much cache you have along with your firmware revision.

    - Liam


    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
  • From Mark Cummings@NOTfigjams@primus.com.au to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 23:39:21
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Check the number on the crystal (retangular metal can at end of card) and divide that by 4. A 28mhz crystal would give you a 7mhz TWGS. I believe
    the
    TWGS CDA will tell you how much cache you have along with your firmware revision.

    the original ones had wider cache chips 600mil pin spacing which gave the
    TWGS 8K of cache.
    it also would normally have ROM ver 1.5 or earlier. (if there was one
    earlier). although there are 600mil wide 32K cache chips they are pretty
    rare.

    a modified one could have 8K or 32K cache, or extremely unlikely you could
    have a 64K cache prototype (see link below).
    they could be either 300mil or 600mil wide chips, but normally 300mil wide chips will indicate it has been modified to 32K cache.
    check out http://www.apple2.org and go to the Transwarp IIGS Upgrade for
    some more info & pictures. the close up of the GAL chips has an alternative
    to the normally shiney clock oscillator in the top right corner. I havn't
    seen these anywhere else.
    also I believe you must have the later ROM 18.S upgrade if you want it to
    work with 32K cache.

    another upgrade was to add the 32K Cache board that is made by ---SHH System
    at http://www.wbwip.com/shh/ then go to the Transwarp GS 32K cache ("second source") link for more info. These are mounted onto the Transwarp IIGS the opposite way to the original TWGS, so all you will see is the back of the daughterboard. these boards also require that the ver 1.8S ROM be fitted
    IIRC.

    and as someone else has pointed out the Control Panel will tell you more. I know the ROM 1.8 tells you the ROM version and the amount of cache fitted,
    but I can't recall if the original does as I don't have one anymore.

    lastly check out the CPU. they are either marked -6 -7 -8 or -14 or no '-'. this indicates the maximum speed of the CPU. no '-' is 6MHz I believe. the others -6, -7, and -8 are also original CPUs, and if it has a -14 it has the fastest available CPU fitted ie 14MHz, although the Clock Oscillator (XTAL thing) will determine the actual speed it runs at.

    hope that helps.

    Mark


    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
  • From Scott V. McGuire@fake@f.a.k.e.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 17:45:20
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Thanks everyone. The cpu is unmarked for speed, the oscillator says
    35 MHz and Control Panel reports ROM 1.5, so it looks like I have a 6
    or 6.25 MHz cpu with 8k cache.

    I think I want to try the upgrades. I've seen the SHH page before but
    have not been sure whether the cache card is still for sale or if the
    page was just for nostalgia. Are they? Also, does anyone know how many 65c816s you get for the $100 minimum order from WDC? I'm thinking to order them and sell off the extras on ebay.

    Oh, and any good source for oscillators?

    Cheers,
    -Scott


    In article <3f1d3ecf$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, Mark Cummings wrote:
    Check the number on the crystal (retangular metal can at end of card) and
    divide that by 4. A 28mhz crystal would give you a 7mhz TWGS. I believe
    the
    TWGS CDA will tell you how much cache you have along with your firmware
    revision.

    the original ones had wider cache chips 600mil pin spacing which gave the TWGS 8K of cache.
    it also would normally have ROM ver 1.5 or earlier. (if there was one earlier). although there are 600mil wide 32K cache chips they are pretty rare.

    a modified one could have 8K or 32K cache, or extremely unlikely you could have a 64K cache prototype (see link below).
    they could be either 300mil or 600mil wide chips, but normally 300mil wide chips will indicate it has been modified to 32K cache.
    check out http://www.apple2.org and go to the Transwarp IIGS Upgrade for
    some more info & pictures. the close up of the GAL chips has an alternative to the normally shiney clock oscillator in the top right corner. I havn't seen these anywhere else.
    also I believe you must have the later ROM 18.S upgrade if you want it to work with 32K cache.

    another upgrade was to add the 32K Cache board that is made by ---SHH System at http://www.wbwip.com/shh/ then go to the Transwarp GS 32K cache ("second source") link for more info. These are mounted onto the Transwarp IIGS the opposite way to the original TWGS, so all you will see is the back of the daughterboard. these boards also require that the ver 1.8S ROM be fitted IIRC.

    and as someone else has pointed out the Control Panel will tell you more. I know the ROM 1.8 tells you the ROM version and the amount of cache fitted, but I can't recall if the original does as I don't have one anymore.

    lastly check out the CPU. they are either marked -6 -7 -8 or -14 or no '-'. this indicates the maximum speed of the CPU. no '-' is 6MHz I believe. the others -6, -7, and -8 are also original CPUs, and if it has a -14 it has the fastest available CPU fitted ie 14MHz, although the Clock Oscillator (XTAL thing) will determine the actual speed it runs at.

    hope that helps.

    Mark


    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
  • From Mark Cummings@NOTfigjams@primus.com.au to comp.sys.apple2 on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 21:39:33
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    "Scott V. McGuire" <fake@f.a.k.e.net> wrote in message news:QKeTa.16272$852.12350@twister.nyc.rr.com...
    Thanks everyone. The cpu is unmarked for speed, the oscillator says
    35 MHz and Control Panel reports ROM 1.5, so it looks like I have a 6
    or 6.25 MHz cpu with 8k cache.

    sounds right. I might have been a bit out on the lower speeds. it might be a 6MHz CPU overclocked the slightest amount, or maybe there was a 6.25 MHz, I don't know. either way it's the slower unmodified version you currently
    have.

    I think I want to try the upgrades. I've seen the SHH page before but
    have not been sure whether the cache card is still for sale or if the
    page was just for nostalgia. Are they? Also, does anyone know how many 65c816s you get for the $100 minimum order from WDC? I'm thinking to
    order
    them and sell off the extras on ebay.

    about 4 or 5 depending on current price. another option I was considering
    when I 1st looked into it, is WDC also sell a 65816 Assembly manual for ~$60 IIRC. and as they wanted minimum $100 order you could theoretically get 1
    book and 2 CPUs and sell one of the CPUs.

    Oh, and any good source for oscillators?

    I got mine from http://www.mouser.com via the internet. there are other sources. you are looking for half size clock oscillators like those here: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/615/453.pdf in the top right corner of the
    page. or on the bottom left corner of this page: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/615/460.pdf
    As they are dirt cheap get yourself a collection, like 32MHz, 40MHz, 48MHz, 50MHz, 64MHz. check some of the other ones they sell under different mfrs as they may have other speeds. if you can find a 56MHz Clock Osc. then that is
    the ideal speed for the 14MHz CPU.

    BTW just becuase you want to up the speed of the card, there is no guarantee that it will work, as the max speed of any TWGS seems to be different for
    each card. the good news is that it's it's cheap to try different speeds,
    but the bad news is it's expensive (or can be) to do all the other mods for
    max performance.

    Some people just upgrade the cache chips first (can often be found on old 386/486s as cache chips) and add the faster CPU and XTAL. you could try that firsts as a first step.

    Mark


    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
  • From Bill Garber@willy46pa@comcast.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 20:39:56
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


    "Mark Cummings" <NOTfigjams@primus.com.au> wrote in message news:3f1e7438_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
    "Scott V. McGuire" <fake@f.a.k.e.net> wrote in message news:QKeTa.16272$852.12350@twister.nyc.rr.com...

    BTW just becuase you want to up the speed of the card, there is no
    guarantee
    that it will work, as the max speed of any TWGS seems to be different for each card. the good news is that it's it's cheap to try different speeds,
    but the bad news is it's expensive (or can be) to do all the other mods
    for
    max performance.

    Some people just upgrade the cache chips first (can often be found on old 386/486s as cache chips) and add the faster CPU and XTAL. you could try
    that
    firsts as a first step.

    Speaking of cache chips for the TWGS cache cards, let me know
    what speed you need and I'll let you have them for a few buck to
    mail them to you. I have an abundance and I doubt I will need them.

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa@comcast.net



    ---
    This email ain't infected, dude!

    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/03


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  • From Scott V. McGuire@fake@f.a.k.e.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Thursday, July 24, 2003 02:46:24
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    In article <3f1e7438_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, Mark Cummings wrote:
    ... elision ...
    Some people just upgrade the cache chips first (can often be found on old 386/486s as cache chips) and add the faster CPU and XTAL. you could try that firsts as a first step.

    Mark



    I was thinking of the cache upgrade as the last thing to try because I
    thought the cutting and soldering were the most likely to destroy the card. Also I read somewhere that 35ns was good enough for up to 12.5 MHz so I
    thought I'd just try the cpu/oscillator upgrade. Any of that sound wrong?

    Cheers,
    -Scott


    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
  • From brad@mrbrad@ll.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Thursday, July 24, 2003 23:33:57
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


    "Wayne Stewart" <waynes@telus.dotnet> wrote in message news:TnWTa.14493$46.2869598@news2.telusplanet.net...


    Scott V. McGuire wrote:

    I was thinking of the cache upgrade as the last thing to try because I thought the cutting and soldering were the most likely to destroy the
    card.
    Also I read somewhere that 35ns was good enough for up to 12.5 MHz so I thought I'd just try the cpu/oscillator upgrade. Any of that sound
    wrong?

    Cheers,
    -Scott

    I was able to go to 14mhz by just changing the oscillator but cards may
    vary.

    According to the ///SHH Systeme website they're still selling a 32k
    cache daughter card.



    the main thing i'd point out in this mod of a twgs to 14mhz..is when you get the daughter board (32k) and they tell you to cut those particular traces in the back to make the 14mhz mod...be sure to HEAT UP the xacto knife when cutting those particular traces..dumb me..i did it with a cold xacto knife...cut...skip skip xacto across back of board...do a little dilbert
    dance of fear/rage...plug it in works....sit look at board for 1hr...try it again....slips..skips across back of board...do second dilbert dance of frustration....sit look at it for 1/2 hr...try last time....worked

    closest i ever had to a heart attack working on an apple //...(this was a
    new twgs card prob had 200 invested and i'm playing dance the xacto knife)

    anyway had a good card ran consistently at 14mhz for 10 yrs straight on
    apple // bbs ...lost gonzo bbs

    anyway...that is the main thing i remember on mod'ing a twgs to 14mhz

    brad



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  • From mjmahon@mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) to comp.sys.apple2 on Friday, July 25, 2003 04:42:39
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Scott V. McGuire wrote:

    Thanks everyone. The cpu is unmarked for speed, the oscillator says
    35 MHz and Control Panel reports ROM 1.5, so it looks like I have a 6
    or 6.25 MHz cpu with 8k cache.

    35/4 = 8.75

    -michael

    Check out amazing quality 8-bit Apple sound on my
    Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
  • From Eric@lonewolf@hotmail.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Friday, July 25, 2003 23:20:57
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Hi Scott,

    If you're getting some WDC 65c816s 14Mhz chip, let me know. I'll buy from
    you.
    Actually I have enquired WDC, and they directed me to email a guy, Mike Naberezny to buy small quantity. So far I haven't heard anything yet.

    --
    Eric
    REMOVE second 'L' from my email address to get my actual address.


    "Scott V. McGuire" <fake@f.a.k.e.net> wrote in message news:QKeTa.16272$852.12350@twister.nyc.rr.com...
    Thanks everyone. The cpu is unmarked for speed, the oscillator says
    35 MHz and Control Panel reports ROM 1.5, so it looks like I have a 6
    or 6.25 MHz cpu with 8k cache.

    I think I want to try the upgrades. I've seen the SHH page before but
    have not been sure whether the cache card is still for sale or if the
    page was just for nostalgia. Are they? Also, does anyone know how many 65c816s you get for the $100 minimum order from WDC? I'm thinking to
    order
    them and sell off the extras on ebay.

    Oh, and any good source for oscillators?

    Cheers,
    -Scott


    In article <3f1d3ecf$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, Mark Cummings wrote:
    Check the number on the crystal (retangular metal can at end of card)
    and
    divide that by 4. A 28mhz crystal would give you a 7mhz TWGS. I believe
    the
    TWGS CDA will tell you how much cache you have along with your firmware
    revision.

    the original ones had wider cache chips 600mil pin spacing which gave
    the
    TWGS 8K of cache.
    it also would normally have ROM ver 1.5 or earlier. (if there was one earlier). although there are 600mil wide 32K cache chips they are pretty rare.

    a modified one could have 8K or 32K cache, or extremely unlikely you
    could
    have a 64K cache prototype (see link below).
    they could be either 300mil or 600mil wide chips, but normally 300mil
    wide
    chips will indicate it has been modified to 32K cache.
    check out http://www.apple2.org and go to the Transwarp IIGS Upgrade for some more info & pictures. the close up of the GAL chips has an
    alternative
    to the normally shiney clock oscillator in the top right corner. I
    havn't
    seen these anywhere else.
    also I believe you must have the later ROM 18.S upgrade if you want it
    to
    work with 32K cache.

    another upgrade was to add the 32K Cache board that is made by ---SHH
    System
    at http://www.wbwip.com/shh/ then go to the Transwarp GS 32K cache
    ("second
    source") link for more info. These are mounted onto the Transwarp IIGS
    the
    opposite way to the original TWGS, so all you will see is the back of
    the
    daughterboard. these boards also require that the ver 1.8S ROM be fitted IIRC.

    and as someone else has pointed out the Control Panel will tell you
    more. I
    know the ROM 1.8 tells you the ROM version and the amount of cache
    fitted,
    but I can't recall if the original does as I don't have one anymore.

    lastly check out the CPU. they are either marked -6 -7 -8 or -14 or no
    '-'.
    this indicates the maximum speed of the CPU. no '-' is 6MHz I believe.
    the
    others -6, -7, and -8 are also original CPUs, and if it has a -14 it has
    the
    fastest available CPU fitted ie 14MHz, although the Clock Oscillator
    (XTAL
    thing) will determine the actual speed it runs at.

    hope that helps.

    Mark




    --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113