From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

I read again Tulip's press release and then what Chris Abbott wrote
regarding his e-mail exchange with Ironstone's Darren Melbourne. If I
haven't understood wrong, Darren has said that Tulip will go legally after people releasing unauthorised Commodore products in the retail chain. I saw that almost everybody here immediately got the butterflies, and started to panic, and to believe the target of such campain could have been his/her favourite portal, his/her homepage, the small family based Commodore related shop in the neighborhood etc.

But Mr. Melbourne and Tulip have been talking about Commodore branded
products in the retail chain. After giving a look at eBay.de I told to
myself : "could it be that... ?". If you look on eBay.de you'll notice a
number of Commodore branded products having nothing to do with the Commodore
we used to know, not even the 64 Web.it .

For example, look for "Commodore Handfunkgeräte" or, even better, "Commodore funkgeräte" and you'll see a load of Walkie Talkies branded Commodore on
sale new or used. Look also for "Commodore telefon" or "Commodore
funktelefon". You'd be amazed by these brand new products, some even
sporting a nice Commodore fashioned box, with the C= logo and former blue
and red color reminiscent of the late 80's boxes. And...Did Pencams exist before Commodore going into liquidation ? Apparently so, since we have
factory new Commodore Pencams, with a nice C= logo on them.

Now the big question arises : who is or who are the licensee of these
products ? I have always given for granted these products were released
under an agreement with Tulip. But what if not ?

Probably these are the commercial enthities Tulip was referring to saying "Currently there are about 300
commercial websites that use the name Commodore or Commodore 64 without
having a license from Tulip. Tulip will not allow unauthorised
use of the Commodore brand.".

If you all remember, it was not old news the rise of Commodore Media ( http://www.commodore-media.com/ ) few moons ago, claiming the legacy with
the former West Chester firm. Could it be that Commodore Media is actually using the Commodore logo and brand name without any authorization from
Tulip?

I think we all got scared to death about the possibility of Tulip shutting
down our homepages or our friend's little e-commerce shop. Probably we would have not even marginally addressed. If Tulip is going after unauthorized dealers branding telephones or other crap with the Commodore Logo and name I can't help but be happy about that. Going after those lame products would be nothing but the preservation of the Commodore good name and legacy.

Now, the story takes a twist, alright ? :-)

Riccardo








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"Riccardo Rubini" <rrubini@tmicha.net> wrote in message news:W9HQa.31454$it4.839331@news1.tin.it...

I read again Tulip's press release and then what Chris Abbott wrote
regarding his e-mail exchange with Ironstone's Darren Melbourne. If I
haven't understood wrong, Darren has said that Tulip will go legally after people releasing unauthorised Commodore products in the retail chain. I

saw

that almost everybody here immediately got the butterflies, and started to panic, and to believe the target of such campain could have been his/her favourite portal, his/her homepage, the small family based Commodore

related

shop in the neighborhood etc.

But Mr. Melbourne and Tulip have been talking about Commodore branded products in the retail chain. After giving a look at eBay.de I told to
myself : "could it be that... ?". If you look on eBay.de you'll notice a number of Commodore branded products having nothing to do with the

Commodore

we used to know, not even the 64 Web.it .

For example, look for "Commodore Handfunkgeräte" or, even better,

"Commodore

funkgeräte" and you'll see a load of Walkie Talkies branded Commodore on
sale new or used. Look also for "Commodore telefon" or "Commodore funktelefon". You'd be amazed by these brand new products, some even
sporting a nice Commodore fashioned box, with the C= logo and former blue
and red color reminiscent of the late 80's boxes. And...Did Pencams exist before Commodore going into liquidation ? Apparently so, since we have factory new Commodore Pencams, with a nice C= logo on them.

Now the big question arises : who is or who are the licensee of these products ? I have always given for granted these products were released
under an agreement with Tulip. But what if not ?

Probably these are the commercial enthities Tulip was referring to saying "Currently there are about 300
commercial websites that use the name Commodore or Commodore 64 without having a license from Tulip. Tulip will not allow unauthorised
use of the Commodore brand.".

If you all remember, it was not old news the rise of Commodore Media ( http://www.commodore-media.com/ ) few moons ago, claiming the legacy with
the former West Chester firm. Could it be that Commodore Media is actually using the Commodore logo and brand name without any authorization from
Tulip?

I think we all got scared to death about the possibility of Tulip shutting down our homepages or our friend's little e-commerce shop. Probably we

would

have not even marginally addressed. If Tulip is going after unauthorized dealers branding telephones or other crap with the Commodore Logo and name

I

can't help but be happy about that. Going after those lame products would

be

nothing but the preservation of the Commodore good name and legacy.

Now, the story takes a twist, alright ? :-)

Riccardo

I wrote them and this is what I got back:


-----Original Message-----
From: Ironstone [mailto:info@ironstonepartners.com]
Sent: July 14, 2003 9:14 AM
To: martin
Subject: Your email to Ironstone...


Dear Martin,



Now that the news has broken regarding our license deal with Tulip we are
very happy to have received a huge amount of email from the C64 community.
So that we can give you an early response as to what we are planning to do
and hopefully put right some of the misconceptions that are starting to
appear we have prepared the brief statement below.



· The Directors of Ironstone have a combined video games experience
of over 100 years and most of us have at some point built games for the C64. For example, our Creative Director has built over 30 games and our CTO has written over 36 games and 3 books on the C64. In fact, our CTO had the
second machine ever imported into the UK. As a result our interest in C64 is based on our passion for this great system.



· The reason we've been prepared to put a lot of money into this deal
is because we feel the C64 community, and the people who have kept the C64 alive for so long, deserve the support of the brand and technology owners.
In other words, we want to work with you and support you.



We consider ourselves as very much on the side of the C64 community and not
as a "faceless profit hungry organisation", and because we believe that the community has done such a fantastic job of keeping the C64 alive, we'd like
to enlist your help to inform everyone in the community of our intentions.



Finally, if you have any suggestions that you think will help us please let
us know as the we can't think of anyone better or more appropriate to help
us bring the C64 brand back to prominence than the C64 community. Please
send your suggestions to C64ideas@ironstonepartners.com.



Thanks again for your mail.



Kind regards.



The C64 Team at Ironstone.



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

"Riccardo Rubini" <rrubini@tmicha.net> wrote in message news:W9HQa.31454$it4.839331@news1.tin.it...

I read again Tulip's press release and then what Chris Abbott wrote
regarding his e-mail exchange with Ironstone's Darren Melbourne. If I
haven't understood wrong, Darren has said that Tulip will go legally after people releasing unauthorised Commodore products in the retail chain.

Tulip's press release had a distinct "we're coming to get you" undertone to
it. Now, Ironstone may be old C64 hackers, but it's Tulip that doesn't seem
to know squat about "The Community(tm)", and it's Tulip that's going to be
the one threatening legal action to those who are infringing upon their trademark, not Ironstone. So who knows what's going to happen, especially if/when the "official C64 emulator in various software and hardware formats"
is released by them.

--
White Flame (aka David Holz)
http://www.white-flame.com/
(spamblock in effect)


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I think and fear that Tulip/Ironstone possibly want to profit from the
large mobile/pda market. In my opinion an emulator for those systems
would make it possible for the users to access 5000+ games with
nearly no effort and c64 would be optimal for mobile/pda, wouldn't they?

sure this is barely legal but there's also software for cloning DVD and
it sells pretty well...
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Riccardo Rubini wrote:

For example, look for "Commodore Handfunkgeräte" or, even better, "Commodore funkgeräte" and you'll see a load of Walkie Talkies branded Commodore on
sale new or used. Look also for "Commodore telefon" or "Commodore funktelefon". You'd be amazed by these brand new products, some even
sporting a nice Commodore fashioned box, with the C= logo and former blue
and red color reminiscent of the late 80's boxes. And...Did Pencams exist before Commodore going into liquidation ? Apparently so, since we have factory new Commodore Pencams, with a nice C= logo on them.

AFAIK, this stuff (along with Commodore-badged pocket calculators and
paper shredders, and who knows what else) was sold by or under license
from Tulip, through discount retail chains like Aldi or Lidl in
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Subject: Re: Again about Tulip's press release...
From: Michael J. Schülke <news0307@mjschuelke.de>
Riccardo Rubini wrote:

For example, look for "Commodore Handfunkger=E4te" or, even better, "Commodore
funkger=E4te" and you'll see a load of Walkie Talkies branded Commodore on sale new or used. Look also for "Commodore telefon" or "Commodore funktelefon". You'd be amazed by these brand new products, some even
sporting a nice Commodore fashioned box, with the C=3D logo and former blue and red color reminiscent of the late 80's boxes. And...Did Pencams exist before Commodore going into liquidation ? Apparently so, since we have factory new Commodore Pencams, with a nice C=3D logo on them.

AFAIK, this stuff (along with Commodore-badged pocket calculators and
paper shredders, and who knows what else) was sold by or under license
from Tulip. In Germany, it was sold through major discount retail chains
like Aldi and Lidl.
Regards,
Michael
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Michael J. Schülke wrote:

AFAIK, this stuff (along with Commodore-badged pocket calculators and
paper shredders, and who knows what else) was sold by or under license
from Tulip. In Germany, it was sold through major discount retail
chains like Aldi and Lidl.

If all of these are legal, I wonder what any other Commodore branded product "in the retail chain" are they talking about. If John Doe is selling used Commodore ( West Chester ) equipment, how the hell can you call that an "unathorized product" ?

Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about reselling used equipment, that's why I believe Centsible, for example, Software Hut and others are not committing any infringment. Also, can you see Tulip shutting off all the auctions taking place on eBay ?

No, it has to be something else, in my opinion.

Riccardo




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Riccardo Rubini wrote:

No, it has to be something else, in my opinion.

Has the thought ever crossed your mind that that press release contained
a lot of air without any factual basis?

Tulip did their best to talk up the value of the Commodore brand:
millions of loyal users, forming a "massive global fan base of
passionate enthusiasts" that "craves acknowledgement and authenticity
from the true Commodore C64 brand"; hundreds of commercial web sites, constantly using the Commodore brand without license; and finally,
unlicensed Commodore branded products:

IMO, all that serves only one purpose: To suggest that the Commodore
brand still has some value. After all, why else would anyone make
Commodore branded products? Why use the brand on their website?

Reality is different though: The Commodore community cares about
Commodore products and products for their Commodore, but not about the
brand; and the rest of the world has almost forgotten Commodore
entirely.

Regards,
Michael
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Michael J. Schülke wrote:

Riccardo Rubini wrote:

No, it has to be something else, in my opinion.

Has the thought ever crossed your mind that that press release
contained a lot of air without any factual basis?

If it hasn't crossed my mind, I would not have written jokes about it. Don't you like my jokes ? Others happens to :-D

I am referring to both the press release by Tulip _AND_ what Ironstone said
to Chris Abbott, in particular to the latter.

Tulip did their best to talk up the value of the Commodore brand:
millions of loyal users, forming a "massive global fan base of
passionate enthusiasts" that "craves acknowledgement and authenticity
from the true Commodore C64 brand"; hundreds of commercial web sites, constantly using the Commodore brand without license; and finally,
unlicensed Commodore branded products:

True

IMO, all that serves only one purpose: To suggest that the Commodore
brand still has some value.

Sure, it has. Why do you think someone should rebrand cheap Walkie Talkies
or Telephones with the Commodore name and sell it in Aldi stores ?

After all, why else would anyone make
Commodore branded products?

Because the public recognizes the brand, a brand it used to trust.

Why use the brand on their website?

Imagine this scenario : since 1997 you buy a brand name and do absolutely nothing to preserve it or use it. You wake up in 2003 and realize others are using the brand name you own to rebrand crap like documents Shredders or CD-R's. You also discover there is a huge community of Commodore users
living of nostalgia and waiting to be milked. What would CEO Michael J. Schuelke say in a press release ?

Reality is different though: The Commodore community cares about
Commodore products and products for their Commodore, but not about the
brand; and the rest of the world has almost forgotten Commodore
entirely.

The Commodore brand name is still well recognized, Michael, expecially where you live, in Germany. If it wasn't so, again, why would someone rebrand an Aiptek pencam under the Commodore name ?

Riccardo





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Riccardo Rubini wrote:

If it hadn't crossed my mind, I would not have written jokes about
it. Don't you like my jokes ? Others happen to :-D

Aw, awful. Sorry for the typo's here...It ain't fun when you have to write
and have an open Objective CaML interpreter window waiting for your input.
God, I hate this useless language, I'd rather learn Algol...

Riccardo


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Riccardo Rubini wrote:

Sure, it has. Why do you think someone should rebrand cheap Walkie Talkies
or Telephones with the Commodore name and sell it in Aldi stores ?

Tulip would, for two reasons:
- to keep the brand in use; and
- because some brand a few people may recognize is better than no brand
at all

Imagine this scenario : since 1997 you buy a brand name and do absolutely nothing to preserve it or use it.

That's my point: they used the Commodore brand name (or allowed it to be
used) to preserve it.

You wake up in 2003 and realize others are
using the brand name you own to rebrand crap like documents Shredders or CD-R's.

Again, why would anyone want to? Do you think a 1980s home computer
brand would help to sell CD-Rs? Paper shredders?

You also discover there is a huge community of Commodore users
living of nostalgia and waiting to be milked.

An interesting discovery in the realms of phantasy.

Regards,
Michael
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Michael J. Schülke wrote:

Tulip would, for two reasons:
- to keep the brand in use; and

We currently do not know if those products were C= branded on behalf of
Tulip. If those items were *not* authorized rebrands, the press release
_makes sense_ when speaking of unlicensed products and resellers; if, as you said, Tulip gave its consent to sell those items, their press release makes
no sense at all and falls into some incoherent paranoic vagueness.

I personally tend to find a logical sense within Tulip's note, instead of
just saying "it's crap, and idiotic babble not worth my reading". There are some commercial aspects we're probably not aware of, as we're speaking.

- because some brand a few people may recognize is better than no
brand at all

But you were saying the Commodore brand has no value at all, Michael, just
few lines before :-(

It's weird you really do not understand the dramatic commercial importance
for a brand to be easily recognized by the public, moreover with zero advertisement since ten years.

How many modern computer companies would be in that position ? If Acer goes into liquidation today, the brand would be completely forgotten in two
years. How many still remember Cyrix, I mean ?

Imagine this scenario : since 1997 you buy a brand name and do
absolutely nothing to preserve it or use it.

That's my point: they used the Commodore brand name (or allowed it to
be used) to preserve it.

Where are the actual facts *Tulip* used it in the past ? Are we really sure
? Did anybody of us take part in some corporate meeting in Amersfoort ? The answer is NO.

We got a lot of fake Versace or Amrani shirts here in Italy sold through
retail stores, and the scandal of dog furs sold as something else in retail stores hit the media a couple of years ago. It's easy to sell fakes, imagine
if it's impossible to put the name "Commodore" on items and sell them
through Aldi in Germany. Expecially when Tulip didn't give a damn until yesterday.

You wake up in 2003 and realize others are
using the brand name you own to rebrand crap like documents
Shredders or CD-R's.

Again, why would anyone want to? Do you think a 1980s home computer
brand would help to sell CD-Rs? Paper shredders?

Apparently so. Look at http://www.commodore-media.com . You should rephrase your question to them.

We have to come to a conclusion, though, Michael, because you don't seem
have make up your mind on the subject yet. Do you agree or not that when a brand is easily recognizable by the public we can consider such common acknowledgment as something commercially valuable ?

I believe it is valuable, but your position on the subject seems as variable
as a weathercock.

You also discover there is a huge community of Commodore users
living of nostalgia and waiting to be milked.

An interesting discovery in the realms of phantasy.

This is what they clearly hope and it depends on their market moves wether it'll come to reality or not.

Riccardo







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Michael J. Schülke <news0307@mjschuelke.de> writes:

Do you think a 1980s home computer brand would help to sell CD-Rs?

Yes, for nostalgia reasons: "I used to have one of those computers,
and I can still today get stuff from them!"

Maybe the producers of these products, licensed or not, think the
"C= commodore"* logotype looks professional and useable still today.

*) I remember Escom sold "commoDore"-labeled PC:s. Does Tulip also
use this modified logotype, or did they return to the classic one?

--
Anders Carlsson
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Anders Carlsson wrote:

*) I remember Escom sold "commoDore"-labeled PC:s. Does Tulip also
use this modified logotype, or did they return to the classic one?

No no, they use the classic one : http://www.commodore.net

Riccardo


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Riccardo Rubini wrote:

We currently do not know if those products were C= branded on behalf of Tulip. If those items were *not* authorized rebrands, the press release _makes sense_ when speaking of unlicensed products and resellers; if, as you said, Tulip gave its consent to sell those items, their press release makes no sense at all and falls into some incoherent paranoic vagueness.

The alternative would be major retail chains selling products under a
pirated brand. I cannot imagine them not checking their suppliers.

I personally tend to find a logical sense within Tulip's note, instead of just saying "it's crap, and idiotic babble not worth my reading". There are some commercial aspects we're probably not aware of, as we're speaking.

Possibly; however, the press release is so full of marketing hot air
that I tend not to believe too much of it.

- because some brand a few people may recognize is better than no
brand at all

But you were saying the Commodore brand has no value at all, Michael, just few lines before :-(

Then let me correct that: The Commodore brand, when used in conjuction
with modern, cheap office supplies, IMO has about the same value as any
brand the discount chains make up to label their products with.

As long as there is some nice logo on the box, along with a professional-sounding name, the effect should be the same.

It's weird you really do not understand the dramatic commercial importance for a brand to be easily recognized by the public, moreover with zero advertisement since ten years.

What percentage of the public, do you think, still knows about
Commodore? And how many of those who do associate it with something
other than ancient home computers?

We got a lot of fake Versace or Amrani shirts here in Italy sold through retail stores, and the scandal of dog furs sold as something else in retail stores hit the media a couple of years ago. It's easy to sell fakes, imagine if it's impossible to put the name "Commodore" on items and sell them
through Aldi in Germany. Expecially when Tulip didn't give a damn until yesterday.

As I said above, I can't imagine any retail chain not checking that. The danger of being implicated in such a scandal would be too large.

We have to come to a conclusion, though, Michael, because you don't seem
have make up your mind on the subject yet. Do you agree or not that when a brand is easily recognizable by the public we can consider such common acknowledgment as something commercially valuable ?

Not as such. It depends on what the brand is associated with; and I
still don't believe that the general public easily recognizes the
Commodore brand.

You also discover there is a huge community of Commodore users
living of nostalgia and waiting to be milked.

An interesting discovery in the realms of phantasy.

This is what they clearly hope and it depends on their market moves wether it'll come to reality or not.

Nope. The community isn't huge by any standards. Several ten thousand
people at most (and that includes anyone who fires up an emulator occasionally).

I would be very surprised if the core community -- those who read forums
like this one, regularly use their machines and would consider parting
with "real money" for their Commodore experience, exceeds a few
thousand.

That's it from me on that topic -- EOT, as far as I'm concerned.

Michael
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Michael J. Schülke wrote:

Riccardo Rubini wrote:

We currently do not know if those products were C= branded on behalf
of Tulip. If those items were *not* authorized rebrands, the press
release _makes sense_ when speaking of unlicensed products and
resellers; if, as you said, Tulip gave its consent to sell those
items, their press release makes no sense at all and falls into some
incoherent paranoic vagueness.

The alternative would be major retail chains selling products under a
pirated brand. I cannot imagine them not checking their suppliers.

You should. It happens very often, indeed.

I personally tend to find a logical sense within Tulip's note,
instead of just saying "it's crap, and idiotic babble not worth my
reading". There are some commercial aspects we're probably not aware
of, as we're speaking.

Possibly; however, the press release is so full of marketing hot air
that I tend not to believe too much of it.

You should try to read between the lines. Most of press releases come in
that form.

- because some brand a few people may recognize is better than no
brand at all

But you were saying the Commodore brand has no value at all,
Michael, just few lines before :-(

Then let me correct that: The Commodore brand, when used in conjuction
with modern, cheap office supplies, IMO has about the same value as
any brand the discount chains make up to label their products with.

This is your opinion, and I respect it, whilst, of course, I disagree.

As long as there is some nice logo on the box, along with a professional-sounding name, the effect should be the same.

It's weird you really do not understand the dramatic commercial
importance for a brand to be easily recognized by the public,
moreover with zero advertisement since ten years.

What percentage of the public, do you think, still knows about
Commodore?

I believe a wide one, Michael. The managers of today are the teens of the eighties, and the teens of the eighties probably knew the Commodore brand
and products. Commodore hasn't lost its momentum, even after ten years from
its demise. I think it's a fact. No other nostalgia community may be
considered greater than ours.

And how many of those who do associate it with something
other than ancient home computers?

When they see the Commodore brand on a PenCam they are not associating it anymore with ancient computers. Not everybody knows the Commodore history
and the average Joe could think that Commodore never bit the dust, and it's still the same reliable firm he used to know.

As I said above, I can't imagine any retail chain not checking that.
The danger of being implicated in such a scandal would be too large.

You are naive, Michael. Have you ever taken a trip to Greece ? You can buy Versace shirts, which here in Italy I pay something like 80 - 90 EUR, for 5 EUR, identical to the original. How come ?

We have to come to a conclusion, though, Michael, because you don't
seem have make up your mind on the subject yet. Do you agree or not
that when a brand is easily recognizable by the public we can
consider such common acknowledgment as something commercially
valuable ?

Not as such. It depends on what the brand is associated with; and I
still don't believe that the general public easily recognizes the
Commodore brand.

I think I can't prove you wrong bringing tangible proofs, but trust me, it
is so. Tulip wouldn't invest a penny if it was unsure that the general
public does.

Look at eBay.de, those strange [ not really but ] Commodore auctions get a
lot of hits. Just compare the hits of a Commodore PenCam 64 against the original Aiptek one.

This is what they clearly hope and it depends on their market moves
wether it'll come to reality or not.

Nope. The community isn't huge by any standards. Several ten thousand
people at most (and that includes anyone who fires up an emulator occasionally).

And you say it isn't huge ? I too would like to have an homebase of 10.000 potential customers. Imagine selling a product like the C-1 to the half of them, for 200EUR a piece. You'd be moving 1.000.000 EUR !

I would be very surprised if the core community -- those who read
forums like this one, regularly use their machines and would consider

parting

with "real money" for their Commodore experience, exceeds a few
thousand.

Well, I had to part with real money when I bought my first C65. It was damn expensive too, I probably could have bought myself a notebook with those
money. Although I use it from time to time, for example, I played with it yesterday, and it's nice. It's also good because it doesn't take much space
on my desk :-)

If Tulip comes up with something interesting, I am not scared to buy a
product I might like. If they bring back Commodore in a trustable and
reliable form, why shouldn't I be happy ?

Riccardo




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"Riccardo Rubini" <rrubini@tmicha.net> wrote in news:6IOQa.54409$qa5.1256123@news2.tin.it:

If all of these are legal, I wonder what any other Commodore branded
product "in the retail chain" are they talking about. If John Doe is
selling used Commodore ( West Chester ) equipment, how the hell can
you call that an "unathorized product" ?

Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about reselling used equipment,
that's why I believe Centsible, for example, Software Hut and others
are not committing any infringment. Also, can you see Tulip shutting
off all the auctions taking place on eBay ?

No, it has to be something else, in my opinion.

Riccardo

They are not because that is used equipment and fully legal. Tulip
executives are not that stupid. There is specific usages that they will be looking at. Tulip is not going to shut down Commodore fans. It is not in
their interest to do that.

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There was 22 Million C64s sold and about 100 Million people who have seen
the logo and there was 10-20 Million different customers who have bought Commodore products in the 40 years that Commodore was in business.

People simply do not think of Commodore. The funny part of the human mind
is that it forgets nothing that has had any impact in your life. All it
takes is the logo being displayed or seen and those who had any experience with Commodore. A good 75-85% of them will remember the Company and its
brand. Besides Commodore 64 was so sucessful that EVERY software company in the world at the time produced it. Only the young kids would not know or remember Commodore or the really old people suffering from memory loss.

Most everyone else who were reasonable old enough would recognize the Commodore logo.

There is approximately, 50-80 Million people still today who would possibly remember the logo and the name. Commodore was a world leader with a name
that pars with Apple, Atari and IBM.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Anders Carlsson <anders.carlsson@mds.mdh.se> wrote in news:k2g3ch82gow.fsf@legolas.mdh.se:

Michael J. Schülke <news0307@mjschuelke.de> writes:

Do you think a 1980s home computer brand would help to sell CD-Rs?

Yes, for nostalgia reasons: "I used to have one of those computers,
and I can still today get stuff from them!"

Maybe the producers of these products, licensed or not, think the
"C= commodore"* logotype looks professional and useable still today.

*) I remember Escom sold "commoDore"-labeled PC:s. Does Tulip also
use this modified logotype, or did they return to the classic one?

All the trademarks are in their arsenal of trademarks pertaining to
Commodore. They bought all of the Commodore trademarks (with possible exception of Amiga trademarks) and some other Commodore assets.

There is very little posted documentation on exactly all of the stuff
acquired by Tulip pertaining to Commodore. All we have is just a news
article posted by someone and none of them really states or indicates
exactly all of the assets of Commodore acquired.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

"Riccardo Rubini" <rrubini@tmicha.net> wrote in news:1sRQa.58069 $qa5.1286927@news2.tin.it:

Anders Carlsson wrote:

*) I remember Escom sold "commoDore"-labeled PC:s. Does Tulip also
use this modified logotype, or did they return to the classic one?

No no, they use the classic one : http://www.commodore.net

Riccardo

True but they have ALL of the trademarks that they can use. Classic ones as well as the modified versions of the trademark. Even the "COMMODORE="
("=" equals the Commodore flags trailer).

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Riccardo Rubini wrote:

But Mr. Melbourne and Tulip have been talking about Commodore branded products in the retail chain. After giving a look at eBay.de I told to
myself : "could it be that... ?". If you look on eBay.de you'll notice a number of Commodore branded products having nothing to do with the Commodore we used to know, not even the 64 Web.it .

[...]

Now the big question arises : who is or who are the licensee of these products ? I have always given for granted these products were released
under an agreement with Tulip. But what if not ?

Probably these are the commercial enthities Tulip was referring to saying "Currently there are about 300
commercial websites that use the name Commodore or Commodore 64 without having a license from Tulip. Tulip will not allow unauthorised
use of the Commodore brand.".

[...]

Now, the story takes a twist, alright ? :-)

Somehow, I still have this funny feeling that they were not about "Funkgeraete"... :-(

Could they be about "Commodore ring" of websites? :-) Some of them can
even be considered "commercial". Can't they?

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Patryk 'Silver Dream !' £ogiewa wrote:

Could they be about "Commodore ring" of websites? :-) Some of them can
even be considered "commercial". Can't they?

I don't know. Why should they be considered commercial ?

Riccardo


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

"Riccardo Rubini" <rubini@despammed.com> writes:

Could they be about "Commodore ring" of websites? :-)
Some of them can even be considered "commercial". Can't they?

I don't know. Why should they be considered commercial ?

On a few of these sites there are banners selling C64 t-shirts and
other stuff. The Devil's advocate could argue this is unauthorized
retail which should be shut down.

--
Anders Carlsson
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

still don't believe that the general public easily recognizes the
Commodore brand.

I think it does. Think of Volkswagen and the first thing that comes to
mind is the VW-BUG even if you saw only a few to nearly none on the
streets for the last years.

And the BUG was produced by far less units than C64
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

Anders Carlsson wrote:

"Riccardo Rubini" <rubini@despammed.com> writes:

Could they be about "Commodore ring" of websites? :-)
Some of them can even be considered "commercial". Can't they?

I don't know. Why should they be considered commercial ?

On a few of these sites there are banners selling C64 t-shirts and
other stuff. The Devil's advocate could argue this is unauthorized
retail which should be shut down.

That's one good example. Linking to small businesses selling anything
related might also be argued the same way. Plus more. No. It's just
about that feeling that they were not about doing any good to the
"community". So - to quote someone from the beginning of the original
Tulip thread - forgive me if I am not thrilled...

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm


Jaque Moreau wrote ...

still don't believe that the general public easily recognizes the
Commodore brand.

I think it does. Think of Volkswagen and the first thing that comes to
mind is the VW-BUG even if you saw only a few to nearly none on the
streets for the last years.

I see your point, and I agree that the C= symbol and name are still easily recognized.

And the BUG was produced by far less units than C64

But, I'm not too sure of that. I haven't tried to check production figures,
so I could be wrong in thinking that more VW Bugs were made than C64s.

Keep in mind that the VW Bug was marketed worldwide and for a great number
of years. I wouldn't be surprised if 20 million were sold in the US alone. Even after the VW Bug lost favor with consumers in the major industrialized nations, it was still produced and sold well in several less advanced countries, those in South America for example. Overall, the Bug was
produced for around 40 years! A true automotive classic.

And even after all these years, it successor being sold today is still easy
to recognize as a descendent of the famed VW Beetle.

Best regards,

Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088
Last 8-bit BBS in the Dallas area. Commodore lives!




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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, wildstar wrote:
|Most everyone else who were reasonable old enough would recognize the |Commodore logo.
|
|There is approximately, 50-80 Million people still today who would
|possibly remember the logo and the name. Commodore was a world leader
|with a name that pars with Apple, Atari and IBM.

Yet there was a hiatus for a while as the bankruptcy court attempted
to divide the properties (and merchandise) between various creditors;
this act of division can be construed to be a judicial act extinguishing
the trademark. Whether the bankruptcy court can 'award' it to someone
else, even a foreign company attempting to do business on our shores, eventually runs afoul of the First Amendment. When that foreign
company ceases to do business here with our mark, it could be argued
that the 'ball' is thrown into the international courts. But as for
our own soils, the trademark would effectively have been abandoned
for want of use. Trademarks that are 'abandoned' generally become
public. It is similar to escheating to the state, as in probate
law.

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