From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>, nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).

A couple of crashes a month is fine?

And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?

Have you considered checking your RAM?

G
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <300620032106223501%gwestonREMOVE@CAPSattbi.com>,
Greg Weston <gwestonREMOVE@CAPSattbi.com> wrote:

In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>, nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).

A couple of crashes a month is fine?

And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?

Have you considered checking your RAM?

I used to crash several times a DAY in OS 9. I hated it.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"We really haven't done everything we could to protect our
customers ... Our products just aren't engineered for security."
-- Brian Valentine, Sr VP in charge of MS Windows' Dev Team
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

In article <20030630154258.20861.00003105@mb-m02.aol.com>,
mikeq1139@aol.com (Mikeq1139) wrote:

<<
I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
better way to do this?

<BR><BR>

OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the system.
What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?

True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month). Anyway, I want to "tread lightly," knowing that I'll probably have to succumb to OSX one day. It looks great, and I know that it's an
improvement (over OS9) in many ways, but from what I gather from people here, when something goes wrong, the fixit remedies are totally
different from the way they've always been. With OS9, I can look at my System Folder and understand it, and fix the problem myself
(occasionally needing help from another Mac user). The OSX system files
look more like Windows files--with cryptic names. From the sound of some
of the discussions about OSX here, you almost have to be a computer programmer to fix an OSX problem. The reason I got hooked on Macs (in
1989) is because non-geeks could maintain them and figure things out intuitively.

If you have the disk space, then install Mac OS X on a separate
partition _AND_ _ALSO_ install a separate Mac OS 9.2.2 that is only to
be used as the Classic environment for Mac OS X.

Now _ONLY_ add in Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels that are
absolutely necessary to use your Mac OS 9 applications (you may even
need to re-install on the special Classic Mac OS 9 some Apps if they
store things in the system folder.

The general idea is that Mac OS 9 has tended to accumulate a lot of
extensions and drivers over the years, some of which are no longer being
used because you never kept the product or you no longer use that
external printer/disk/scanner/modem/etc... any longer.

While I still use Classic apps (like this news reader I'm writing this
reply with), I do not use too many. But for the most part, I do not
have problems with Classic Apps.

Another thing to try. If an App crashes, consider removing it
preferences file and starting clean. Slightly corrupted preference
files have cause Apps to crash in the past, so it is worth a try.

If Mac OS X is crashing a lot, then I would suspect hardware that is not behaving. For example, Mac OS X is less forgiving of some 3rd party
memory cards. The disk drivers may push the disk a little harder, etc...


Good luck. And take as much time as you need to make the decision on switching to Mac OS X.
Bob Harris
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article
<ThomRosario-4730A3.21484430062003@central.isp.giganews.com>,
Thom Rosario <ThomRosario@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <300620032106223501%gwestonREMOVE@CAPSattbi.com>,
Greg Weston <gwestonREMOVE@CAPSattbi.com> wrote:

In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>, nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days. In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).

A couple of crashes a month is fine?

And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?

Have you considered checking your RAM?

I used to crash several times a DAY in OS 9. I hated it.

(Orig. poster) v.9.0.4 was terrible (at least five crashes a day) when I
first got it. I applied all the patches that came later and then it was
fine. But I was glad when 9.1 came out, and things are still fine at
9.2.2. To me, two crashes a month is pretty darn good.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <harris-828656.22511230062003@juggl7.zk3.dec.com>,
Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> wrote:

In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

In article <20030630154258.20861.00003105@mb-m02.aol.com>,
mikeq1139@aol.com (Mikeq1139) wrote:

<<
I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a better way to do this?

<BR><BR>

OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the system.
What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?

True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month). Anyway, I want to "tread lightly," knowing that I'll probably have to succumb to OSX one day. It looks great, and I know that it's an improvement (over OS9) in many ways, but from what I gather from people here, when something goes wrong, the fixit remedies are totally
different from the way they've always been. With OS9, I can look at my System Folder and understand it, and fix the problem myself
(occasionally needing help from another Mac user). The OSX system files look more like Windows files--with cryptic names. From the sound of some of the discussions about OSX here, you almost have to be a computer programmer to fix an OSX problem. The reason I got hooked on Macs (in 1989) is because non-geeks could maintain them and figure things out intuitively.

If you have the disk space, then install Mac OS X on a separate
partition _AND_ _ALSO_ install a separate Mac OS 9.2.2 that is only to
be used as the Classic environment for Mac OS X.

Now _ONLY_ add in Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels that are
absolutely necessary to use your Mac OS 9 applications (you may even
need to re-install on the special Classic Mac OS 9 some Apps if they
store things in the system folder.

The general idea is that Mac OS 9 has tended to accumulate a lot of extensions and drivers over the years, some of which are no longer being used because you never kept the product or you no longer use that
external printer/disk/scanner/modem/etc... any longer.

While I still use Classic apps (like this news reader I'm writing this
reply with), I do not use too many. But for the most part, I do not
have problems with Classic Apps.

Another thing to try. If an App crashes, consider removing it
preferences file and starting clean. Slightly corrupted preference
files have cause Apps to crash in the past, so it is worth a try.

If Mac OS X is crashing a lot, then I would suspect hardware that is not behaving. For example, Mac OS X is less forgiving of some 3rd party
memory cards. The disk drivers may push the disk a little harder, etc...

Good luck. And take as much time as you need to make the decision on switching to Mac OS X.
Bob Harris

Thanks--I'll heed your advice. When you say, "Also install a separate
Mac OS 9.2.2Šfor Classic," do you mean I'll have two instances of OS9 on
my machine? Or by "separate" do you mean "separate partition?"
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <nosredna-5A4943.23492930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

In article
<ThomRosario-4730A3.21484430062003@central.isp.giganews.com>,
Thom Rosario <ThomRosario@nospam.com> wrote:

A couple of crashes a month is fine?

And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?

Have you considered checking your RAM?

I used to crash several times a DAY in OS 9. I hated it.

(Orig. poster) v.9.0.4 was terrible (at least five crashes a day) when I first got it. I applied all the patches that came later and then it was fine. But I was glad when 9.1 came out, and things are still fine at
9.2.2. To me, two crashes a month is pretty darn good.

To be fair..... that was 9.0.4 for me, too.

About that time, my ADC copy of OS X Beta showed up, and I didn't have
to deal w/ OS 9 anymore. Once I went to OS X Beta, I never looked back: warts and all, it was still better than OS 9 was.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"We really haven't done everything we could to protect our
customers ... Our products just aren't engineered for security."
-- Brian Valentine, Sr VP in charge of MS Windows' Dev Team
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <nosredna-F8A3B0.23544130062003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

In article <harris-828656.22511230062003@juggl7.zk3.dec.com>,
Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> wrote:

In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
nosredna <nosredna@suscom.net> wrote:

In article <20030630154258.20861.00003105@mb-m02.aol.com>,
mikeq1139@aol.com (Mikeq1139) wrote:

<<
I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a better way to do this?

<BR><BR>

OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the system.
What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?

True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days. In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month). Anyway, I want to "tread lightly," knowing that I'll probably have to succumb to OSX one day. It looks great, and I know that it's an improvement (over OS9) in many ways, but from what I gather from people here, when something goes wrong, the fixit remedies are totally different from the way they've always been. With OS9, I can look at my System Folder and understand it, and fix the problem myself (occasionally needing help from another Mac user). The OSX system files look more like Windows files--with cryptic names. From the sound of some of the discussions about OSX here, you almost have to be a computer programmer to fix an OSX problem. The reason I got hooked on Macs (in 1989) is because non-geeks could maintain them and figure things out intuitively.

If you have the disk space, then install Mac OS X on a separate
partition _AND_ _ALSO_ install a separate Mac OS 9.2.2 that is only to
be used as the Classic environment for Mac OS X.

Now _ONLY_ add in Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels that are absolutely necessary to use your Mac OS 9 applications (you may even
need to re-install on the special Classic Mac OS 9 some Apps if they
store things in the system folder.

The general idea is that Mac OS 9 has tended to accumulate a lot of extensions and drivers over the years, some of which are no longer being used because you never kept the product or you no longer use that
external printer/disk/scanner/modem/etc... any longer.

While I still use Classic apps (like this news reader I'm writing this reply with), I do not use too many. But for the most part, I do not
have problems with Classic Apps.

Another thing to try. If an App crashes, consider removing it
preferences file and starting clean. Slightly corrupted preference
files have cause Apps to crash in the past, so it is worth a try.

If Mac OS X is crashing a lot, then I would suspect hardware that is not behaving. For example, Mac OS X is less forgiving of some 3rd party memory cards. The disk drivers may push the disk a little harder, etc...

Good luck. And take as much time as you need to make the decision on switching to Mac OS X.
Bob Harris

Thanks--I'll heed your advice. When you say, "Also install a separate
Mac OS 9.2.2Šfor Classic," do you mean I'll have two instances of OS9 on
my machine? Or by "separate" do you mean "separate partition?"

If possible, have a separate partition (or external disk).

Install Mac OS X on separate partition
Install Mac OS 9.2.2 the same separate partition.

So now you have Mac OS X and a very clean Mac OS 9 on the same bootable partition.

It is possible to have 2 Mac OS 9 System Folders on the same partition,
but only 1 of them can be the "Blessed" System Folder. Under Mac OS 9, draging the System file or the Finder file out of and back into the
System Folder will bless that System Folder. There are other ways, but
that is a simple way to do it. A one time I had about 4 or 5 different systems on the same disk (each a different version). I would remove the Finder from all but one of the system folders so that only one was
blessed at a time. When I needed to boot a different version of the Mac
OS for testing something, I would remove the Finder from the current
active system folder and drag the correct Finder back to the system
folder of the version I wanted to boot.

It has been a while, but I think there is a Mac OS 9 installer option
that allows you to install a new system on an existing disk into a new
system folder. I forget if the old system folder is rename, or what.

Another way to do this is to just pull the Finder out of the current
system folder and rename the current system folder to something else,
then using your installer CD, install a new system. It should ignore
the renamed system folder since it has a different name and because the removal of the Finder would have "Unblessed" the folder so it would not
be found based on boot block information.

Now once you have 2 Mac OS 9 system folders, you might be able to put
both finders back in the system folders (last one in should bless that
system folder (only one system folder may be blessed). What I am unsure
of is if Mac OS X would be able to find both system folders on the same
disk or if it would only find the blessed system folder, and if you
decide to use this hack, how much difficulty would it be to switch back
by playing blessing games. In other words, it might get really old very
fast if you need to switch back and fort a lot. A separate partition
for the Mac OS X/Classic system pair, and a separate partition for your existing Mac OS 9 system might be a bit easier to live with.

Once you decide how you want to go and you get stuff installed,...

Boot Mac OS X. Using the Mac OS X "Classic" preferences, specify which version of Mac OS 9 should be started as the Classic environment. You
will select the one on the same partition as Mac OS X.

Now either re-install only those applications that want to put stuff in
the system folder, or copy over the minimum application files from the
old System Folder to the Mac OS 9 system folder that is going to act as
your Classic environment. Remember you are trying to avoid copying
everything over so that if there are some extensions/control panels,
other that might be causing problems you don't bring them over.

Very selectivily you may decide to copy over some preferences for
applications that have complex pref's setups that would be very
difficult to just redo them.

Applications that do not need stuff in the System Folder do _NOT_ need
to be re-installed. They should work fine in the Classic environment
without any special installation work.

One more thing. If you think you will be moving towards Mac OS X, you
might decide to put your current Mac OS 9 system in a smaller (just
large enough) partition and give the bulk of your disk space over to the
Mac OS X/Classic and your applications and data. Mac OS X likes lots of
disk space. Just a thought. Of course if you have an external disk (or second internal disk), that would make life a little easier.

Bob Harris
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113