From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 00:36:34 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

They're updating my $100 64GB/4GB 8-core phone too frequently for my tastes. o <https://i.postimg.cc/pTMh6H1w/update02.jpg> July Moto G7 update
o <https://i.postimg.cc/FzcrSdx8/update01.jpg> Aug Moto G7 update
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Qtg9Ly2H/update03.jpg> Sept Moto G7 update
o <https://i.postimg.cc/DZQ7K2Td/update04.jpg> Oct Moto G7 update
o <https://i.postimg.cc/8kHTKPwT/update05.jpg> Nov Moto G7 update
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hPtcHW3T/update06.jpg> Current Moto G7 Status

Update to this long-standing thread on too many Android updates:
o Are they updating your Android device too frequently lately? May 12, 2020 <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/a_62P0R-O6M>

Here's some screenshots that I pulled out of the thread just now:
o 01Feb2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/vHTvLyt5/update01.jpg>
o 04Apr2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/1zG053y1/update02.jpg>
o 06Jun2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/pTMh6H1w/update02.jpg>
o 01Aug2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/Qtg9Ly2H/update03.jpg>
o 01Jul2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/pTMh6H1w/update02.jpg>
o 04Aug2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/FzcrSdx8/update01.jpg>
o 03Sep2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/Qtg9Ly2H/update03.jpg>
o 01Oct2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/DZQ7K2Td/update04.jpg>
o 01Nov2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/8kHTKPwT/update05.jpg>
o 04Nov2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/hPtcHW3T/update06.jpg>
and today...
o 17Dec2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/qB32Jz3k/decupdate01.jpg>

They keep updating my $100 Moto G7, far more frequently than I'd like.
o They just did it again, today
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6kfPwDw/decupdate03.jpg>

They don't update my iOS devices that often (thank God, as iOS is untested software, which was proven many times by Google), but on iOS, they force
you to log in even though you have no reason nor desire to log into Apple servers. <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
o Can someone helpful tell me why my iPad has been asking for an Apple ID Verification for months on end?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/bx3H0DMGBys>

Luckily, Android _never_ asks you to log in (unlike iOS, the phone,
unrooted, works just fine without a Google Account but iOS can't work, non jailbroken, without the iCloud account that Apple apparently FORCES you to
log into periodically (or you get nagged to death, every single day).

Anyway, they updated, yet again, my Moto G7 for the umpteenth time today.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/4NRVms6p/decupdate02.jpg>

Pretty much they've been pushing OS updates roughly about once a month
o One of which was the upgrade from Android 9 to Android 10

I'm not sure if it's the carrier, Google, or Motorola doing these updates
o Are they updating your Android phone far too frequently lately?
--
The thing about iOS owners is they don't know anything about Android;
yet, we Android owners know all about iOS (because I own both platforms).
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

That seems like a lot of updates. My Pixel2 got an immediate update to
A11 when I bought it in March and one more minor update since then. The
apps, however, are a different story :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
Brian (Talking to crowd): You need to be independent minded.
Crowd: We are! We are!
Person in crowd: I'm not! -- Monty Python
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:14:36 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

That seems like a lot of updates. My Pixel2 got an immediate update to
A11 when I bought it in March and one more minor update since then. The apps, however, are a different story :-(

Hi The Real Bev,

We've known each other (over Usenet) for, well, almost forever, so you
know, I don't bullshit (I back up my facts), and as you know, I assess it
takes no intelligence to get a crappy Android device but it takes work to
get a good one at a good price.

I don't know _who_ (Google, Motorola, T-Mobile) is updating this damn
Android OS, but they're doing it just about once a month, as you can see:
o 01Feb2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/vHTvLyt5/update01.jpg>
o 04Apr2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/1zG053y1/update02.jpg>
o 06Jun2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/pTMh6H1w/update02.jpg>
o 01Aug2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/Qtg9Ly2H/update03.jpg>
o 01Jul2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/pTMh6H1w/update02.jpg>
o 04Aug2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/FzcrSdx8/update01.jpg>
o 03Sep2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/Qtg9Ly2H/update03.jpg>
o 01Oct2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/DZQ7K2Td/update04.jpg>
o 01Nov2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/8kHTKPwT/update05.jpg>
o 04Nov2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/hPtcHW3T/update06.jpg>
o 17Dec2020 update <https://i.postimg.cc/qB32Jz3k/decupdate01.jpg>

So far, the $100 I spent for my 64GB/4GB Moto G7 on Black Friday last year
has been a good choice, for me save for the fact that they update the hell
out of it though, where it's too much for me to have almost monthly Android
OS updates. (I added a $40 400GB SanDisk sdcard this Black Friday, but
ended up giving the damn thing away since someone had only a puny 64GB card
so I'm back to a puny 64GB of additional sdcard storage).

As you know, I don't update ANYTHING unless there's a reason, where, interestingly, for my iPads, the new privacy features of iOS 14 may be the _first_ time ever that I voluntarily update to an iOS release that has
value).
o Facebook blasts Apple in new ads over iPhone privacy change <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/Bzg8LhR6L30>

When I updated my Moto G7 (which was born with Android 9) to Android 10
this July 3rd, I looked and asked and we all agreed there wasn't much is Android 10 that would help or hurt, so I let the thing update itself.
o Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10? What are the pitfalls you've experienced & the benefits?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/X65cMyzAn-g>

Unlike with iOS (which Google proved many times has never been tested even
once for basic security holes), it was a wash whether I should update
Android 9 to Android 10, but nonetheless, they've been updating the OS
about monthly, where there are _different_ kinds of updates we need to keep
in mind when we openly discuss them:
o When we talk of Android updates, what kinds of updates are we talking about? <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/WaKaaPHM_Qs>

It seems that, from the responses, they're updating "some" Android devices
more frequently lately, where once a month (or so) seems a bit much if you
ask me, for my Moto G7.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart, to discuss issues of import to all.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In message <rrg4b1$3sd$1@news.mixmin.net>
Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

where it's too much for me to have almost monthly Android OS updates.

Interesting. My desktop is Ubuntu (was 18.04 until recently when I
updated it to 20.04), and in all the time I've had it, there have
usually been several updates per week, occasionally even two per
day. I'm pleased by that.

In contrast, my Android phone only had updates for two years from
release date, and there were very few in that time. I'm disappointed
by that.

So you're wishing for less updates, and I'm wishing for far more.

David
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 12/17/2020 09:25 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:14:36 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

That seems like a lot of updates. My Pixel2 got an immediate update to
A11 when I bought it in March and one more minor update since then. The
apps, however, are a different story :-(

So far, the $100 I spent for my 64GB/4GB Moto G7 on Black Friday last year has been a good choice, for me save for the fact that they update the hell out of it though, where it's too much for me to have almost monthly Android OS updates. (I added a $40 400GB SanDisk sdcard this Black Friday, but
ended up giving the damn thing away since someone had only a puny 64GB card so I'm back to a puny 64GB of additional sdcard storage).

Subscribe to Best Buy's Deal of the Day; they frequently have excellent prices on sdcards and hard drives. I think I saw a 128gb microsdcard
for under $30 recently.

It seems that, from the responses, they're updating "some" Android devices more frequently lately, where once a month (or so) seems a bit much if you ask me, for my Moto G7.

There seemed to be quite a few incremental Android updates with my G5,
but not that many. Really pissed about the constant nagging to do the
major update, though. NOT going to do that.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Why does everybody always forget the eigthth dwarf? Just because
poor old Lumpy died of cancer doesn't mean he should be written
out of history." -- RMassey
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2020-12-18, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/17/2020 09:25 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 08:14:36 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

That seems like a lot of updates. My Pixel2 got an immediate update to
A11 when I bought it in March and one more minor update since then. The >>> apps, however, are a different story :-(

So far, the $100 I spent for my 64GB/4GB Moto G7 on Black Friday last year >> has been a good choice, for me save for the fact that they update the hell >> out of it though, where it's too much for me to have almost monthly Android >> OS updates. (I added a $40 400GB SanDisk sdcard this Black Friday, but
ended up giving the damn thing away since someone had only a puny 64GB card >> so I'm back to a puny 64GB of additional sdcard storage).

Subscribe to Best Buy's Deal of the Day; they frequently have excellent prices on sdcards and hard drives. I think I saw a 128gb microsdcard
for under $30 recently.

It seems that, from the responses, they're updating "some" Android devices >> more frequently lately, where once a month (or so) seems a bit much if you >> ask me, for my Moto G7.

There seemed to be quite a few incremental Android updates with my G5,
but not that many. Really pissed about the constant nagging to do the
major update, though. NOT going to do that.

The subject about android updates should just apply to phones. Tablets
update are very few & sometimes no updates since day 1. It seems that
IOS get "updated" about every 2 months........
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 01:30:12 -0000 (UTC), lew wrote:

The subject about android updates should just apply to phones. Tablets update are very few & sometimes no updates since day 1. It seems that
IOS get "updated" about every 2 months........

Hi Lew,

Thanks for that information where even I'm surprised (and dismayed) they're updating Android roughly about monthly for me, and based on the news today, they plan on updating Android for longer periods of time than ever before.

For example, I noticed in the news just today, that this is a trend that
Google & Qualcomm seem to be pushing moving forward, at least they say so, and, as you noted, the news used the word "phones" below:

o Google and Qualcomm are working together for faster Android updates <https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/17/22178833/google-qualcomm-snapdragon-888-faster-android-updates-four-years>
"The goal is to make it even easier for users to get the latest version
of Android on their phones (something that isn't always guaranteed)
and to ensure that new Qualcomm chips will support four Android OS
updates and four years of security updates"

In addition, this was in the news today related to all Qualcomm CPUs:
o Qualcomm promises three years of Android updates for its entire SoC lineup <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/qualcomm-promises-three-years-of-android-updates-for-its-entire-soc-lineup/>
"The new plan is three years of major OS updates and
four years of security updates."

"the plan is to roll this out to all Snapdragon chipsets,
including lower-tier ones"

"Qualcomm's and Google's blog posts both contain the same phrasing,
that they will "support 4 Android OS versions and 4 years of security
updates." Read that quote closely and you'll spot two different units
of measurement happening there, which some people have misinterpreted.

While there are four years of security updates, the two companies are
counting the initial release of Android in their quote of "4 Android OS
versions," so it's three years of major Android updates, not four years.

We double-checked with Qualcomm and got back "Qualcomm will support the
launch version + 3 OS upgrades, for a total of 4 major Android OS
versions. Snapdragon 888 will support Android 11, 12, 13, and 14."
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate & discuss facts.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> writes:

So you're wishing for less updates, and I'm wishing for far more.

Likewise. Or actually I want security updates on time every time. Every
time being every month as Google puts out a security update for Android.

Oneplus has been kind of OK with my Oneplus 6 as currently it has
November's security update but at least previously when there was an OS
or phone release happening they have just stopped doing updates for
months.

My work Nokia 7.2 updated to the December security update yesterday. So
still over two weeks from release and there should be little to no need
to modify the patch on this device as it's "Android One" type of thing
so little or no customization. Also no operator influence in these
parts.

Then again, it seems to me most attacks on Android are from infected
apps in the Play store or elsewhere.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 07:25:23 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On 12/17/2020 9:40 AM, David Taylor wrote:

On 17/12/2020 16:14, The Real Bev wrote:

In general, I would rather have more frequent updates than less
frequent.

If the updates are improvements, I agree with you.

Always being rational, I agree fully that there's no reason to update most
of the time unless the update itself, has improvements you actually want.

To back up that claim, readers will note I asked here about whether it was
even worth the upgrade from Android 9 to 10, the answer being it's barely different.
o Those on Android 10... is it worth upgrading from 9 to 10? <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/X65cMyzAn-g>

Being a logically reasonable person, I can't possibly disagree that the
mere frequency of updates, itself, imparts almost nothing of value itself.

What matters is _what_ is that update, which I note for those who aren't
aware of how Apple does updates quite differently than Android:
o When we talk of Android updates, what kinds of updates are we talking about? <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/WaKaaPHM_Qs>

Note that Apple-only owners almost always (based on my experience with
them) have absolutely no clue about Android updates, perhaps for the reason that they believe only what MARKETING feeds them, whose marketing never
talks about the components of Android which _are_ updated frequently.

Also it's likely most Android owners perhaps don't know that an iOS update
is completely different than an Android update, in that Apple controls the entire supply chain save for the final push from the users' carrier.
o Why do some people say iOS is "safer" than Android simply because of the mere frequency of release?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/voFbGKpUoBo>

If the updates are fixes to bugs, I disagree. Frequent fixes to bugs
mean there were frequent bugs. And frequent bugs means they have done a
poor job of testing updates and releasing them too quickly.

I agree with your logic, where rational thought processes should prevail in
our decision to update and in understanding why the OEM feels the need to update. Just updating because MARKETING needs you to update, is
preposterous.

Yet, many people do just that, simply following their MARKETING nose rings.
o These people actually believe the mere frequency of release garners safety.

Me? I don't update anything (Windows, Linux, Android, or iOS) until/unless
I read there is _something_ of value in that update, or if I'm forced to.

I also own plenty of iOS devices, which I think Apple is forced to update
their bugs within days of each other, and even days after an initial
release, which has happened so many times that it's just not funny.

While many/most/some people wait for a release update to prove itself:
o Windows 10 update to 2004. Is it safe at this point? <https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/sb7p4y3E/windows-10-update-to-2004-is-it-safe-at-this-point>

Others throw caution to the wind, and update whenever it's available:
o So the Win 10 2004 update was finally presented to my computer, I'm diving in!
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/ZlIoOV1S/so-the-win-10-2004-update-was-finally-presented-to-my-computer-i-m-diving-in>

Which, personally, I think is just ignorance driving them to update
frequently as we already know almost EVERY release has bugs that aren't
found until people use them en masse, so most prudent people whom I know,
would logically and sensibly delay the release update for a feasible time.
o Question about delaying 2004 upgrade <https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/Mh85snag/question-about-delaying-2004-upgrade>

Personally, I haven't heard of all that many Android releases that were bad
out of the box, but _plenty_ of iOS and Windows releases certainly were
horrid at release time.
o Had my first BSOD in quite a few years (Win 10 v2004) <https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/wm3c9PeI/had-my-first-bsod-in-quite-a-few-years-win-10-v2004>

In fact, I doubt either iOS or Windows has _ever_ shipped a release that
didn't have holes in it so big you could drive a Mack truck through them.
o Has Apple ever released, in the entire history of the iPhone & iPad, a sufficiently tested iOS release?
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/UN9NyYPPMEk>
o A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed hackers to install ransomware undetected.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/hftPQAEZr_g>

BTW, Google & Qualcomm are (yet again) changing how they break up Android
into manageable components which are different for the firmware than for
the software (e.g., Qualcomm issues a lot of the changes to the firmware).
o Google and Qualcomm are working together for faster Android updates <https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/17/22178833/google-qualcomm-snapdragon-888-faster-android-updates-four-years>

In summary, when people compare updates, many don't bring up the huge differences there are in the "parts" of an update - where it's clear as day that anyone who thinks they get something valuable merely by the sheer _frequency_ of the release, must be, IMHO, listening only to MARKETING.

Logically, you don't update unless there is a compelling reason to do so.
--
One bug.... and the entire untested core iOS house of cards falls down. <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/7Mc1sX9XISA>
Google asked "Was it really that easy?", to which the answer was "Yes".
Google proved iOS core code dating back to 1985 has _never_ been tested!
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