From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:18:18 -0700, Michael Vilain <vilain@spamcop.net> wrote:


<snip>

My guess is that some SMB change to 10.4.6 was only tested on Xp, as 98SE is probably considered obsolete.

<snip>
|
|There was a change to Samba and Windows' authentication at some point. |Prior to this change, Windows authenticated with the Samba file server
|by sending over the password in clear text. Then this was changed on
|the Windows site and the password was encrypted prior to being sent over
|to Samba.
|
|You might try changing the authentication type or something like that to |allow for clear-text password authentication.
|
|[just a SWAG, but what the hey...]

When I go to Preferences/Sharing, highlight Windows Sharing (which is checked) and click on Accounts there is, and previously was I think, a warning saying "Sharing with Windows computers requires storing your password in a less
secure manner" which made me assume it was already set to allowing clear text passwords.

I haven't been able to find where in Mac Preferences I can change the authentication type to allow for clear text password authentication as you suggested.

One reason I think you're on the right track is that I went back to Putty, which allows a choice of Raw, Telnet, RLogin, and SSH. I think in the past Telnet and/or Raw worked. Now only SSH works.

Thus by using Putty I can log into terminal, but I'd like to be able to mount the drive with 98SE -- which might be possible once II can figure out how to
do as you suggest.

Possibly the Xp machine automatically can encrypt as you say but the 98SE
can't which didn't matter until the 10.4.6 upgrade?
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <1ufb32ttbilc9slbs7q9aj9di2m925nt4s@4ax.com>,
reply@thisnewsgroup.com wrote:

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:18:18 -0700, Michael Vilain <vilain@spamcop.net> wrote:

<snip>

My guess is that some SMB change to 10.4.6 was only tested on Xp, as 98SE is
probably considered obsolete.

<snip>
|
|There was a change to Samba and Windows' authentication at some point. |Prior to this change, Windows authenticated with the Samba file server
|by sending over the password in clear text. Then this was changed on
|the Windows site and the password was encrypted prior to being sent over |to Samba.
|
|You might try changing the authentication type or something like that to |allow for clear-text password authentication.
|
|[just a SWAG, but what the hey...]

When I go to Preferences/Sharing, highlight Windows Sharing (which is checked)
and click on Accounts there is, and previously was I think, a warning saying "Sharing with Windows computers requires storing your password in a less secure manner" which made me assume it was already set to allowing clear text passwords.

I haven't been able to find where in Mac Preferences I can change the authentication type to allow for clear text password authentication as you suggested.

One reason I think you're on the right track is that I went back to Putty, which allows a choice of Raw, Telnet, RLogin, and SSH. I think in the past Telnet and/or Raw worked. Now only SSH works.

Thus by using Putty I can log into terminal, but I'd like to be able to mount the drive with 98SE -- which might be possible once I can figure out how to do as you suggest.

Possibly the Xp machine automatically can encrypt as you say but the 98SE can't which didn't matter until the 10.4.6 upgrade?

NT 4.0 SP3 and later versions all encrypted. Windows 98 did not unless
you follow the following instructions:

http://www.facetcorp.com/tnotes/facetwin/tn_fw_encrypted_w98.html

Or you could change /etc/smb.conf to pass clear text passwords if all
you have is Windows 98 connecting to the Mac. There's a whole section
on USERNAME/PASSWORD validation on the man page (and on the samba web
site below). The directive is "encrypt passwords", which is set to
"yes" by default.

There's an O'Reiley book:

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba2/index.html

and there's http://www.samba.org

[isn't Google a fabulous thing? Once I remembered the issue, it was
only a couple searches away]

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:21:48 -0700, in comp.sys.mac.system you wrote:
|
|NT 4.0 SP3 and later versions all encrypted. Windows 98 did not unless
|you follow the following instructions:
|
|http://www.facetcorp.com/tnotes/facetwin/tn_fw_encrypted_w98.html
|Or you could change /etc/smb.conf to pass clear text passwords if all
|you have is Windows 98 connecting to the Mac. There's a whole section
|on USERNAME/PASSWORD validation on the man page (and on the samba web
|site below). The directive is "encrypt passwords", which is set to
|"yes" by default.
|
|There's an O'Reiley book:
|
|http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba2/index.html
|
|and there's http://www.samba.org
|
|[isn't Google a fabulous thing? Once I remembered the issue, it was
|only a couple searches away]

Thanks for the details of your reply. I clipped out earlier stuff due to length of this reply.

The Windows instructions you mention appears to add a key EnablePlainTextPassword with a value of 1 to the registry, something which is already there in 98SE. I tried removing it and rebooting, but that didn't help, so I put it back.

I've resurrected my older powerbook from the attic, the one I cloned to the newer one, and it's only running OSX 10.4.4. There is no problem talking to
it from 98SE

After reading on internet and the Man pages on Samba & smb.conf, I pulled my earlier Powerbook (which was the one cloned to start the newer one) which
still runs 10.4.4 so I could compare. First comparing line by line the smb.conf files, I found an entry in the 10.4.6 one stating
client ntml2 auth = no

After further reading, that seemed strange, as no is the default according to smb.conf man, which is the same for both 10.4.4 & 10.4.6. Commenting it out, or deleting it had no effect. If the default had been changed why the line?

So I looked for other client auth items in the Man file, and made sure
that lanman , ntml2, and plaintext were all set to their defaults in case 10.4.6 was mucking with them. No help, no change, though the Man pages say it should work and does on 10.4.4. Clearly from the man pages, if lanman was other than the default of being enabled, 98SE would not work, but it is set to yes in case the default was other than the man pages say on 10.4.6.

In frustration I looked to the only other difference in conf files, the 10.4.4 one had the line
create mode 0750

so, I tried adding it to 10.4.6, again no difference.

Time to step away from this annoying problem for awhile.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <l8hd32lvlo3u46h8gjfndmmjirkkm5rupu@4ax.com>,
reply@thisnewsgroup.com wrote:

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:21:48 -0700, in comp.sys.mac.system you wrote:
|
|NT 4.0 SP3 and later versions all encrypted. Windows 98 did not unless |you follow the following instructions:
|
|http://www.facetcorp.com/tnotes/facetwin/tn_fw_encrypted_w98.html
|Or you could change /etc/smb.conf to pass clear text passwords if all
|you have is Windows 98 connecting to the Mac. There's a whole section
|on USERNAME/PASSWORD validation on the man page (and on the samba web
|site below). The directive is "encrypt passwords", which is set to
|"yes" by default.
|
|There's an O'Reiley book:
|
|http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba2/index.html
|
|and there's http://www.samba.org
|
|[isn't Google a fabulous thing? Once I remembered the issue, it was
|only a couple searches away]

Thanks for the details of your reply. I clipped out earlier stuff due to length of this reply.

The Windows instructions you mention appears to add a key EnablePlainTextPassword with a value of 1 to the registry, something which is already there in 98SE. I tried removing it and rebooting, but that didn't help, so I put it back.

I've resurrected my older powerbook from the attic, the one I cloned to the newer one, and it's only running OSX 10.4.4. There is no problem talking to it from 98SE

After reading on internet and the Man pages on Samba & smb.conf, I pulled my earlier Powerbook (which was the one cloned to start the newer one) which still runs 10.4.4 so I could compare. First comparing line by line the smb.conf files, I found an entry in the 10.4.6 one stating
client ntml2 auth = no

After further reading, that seemed strange, as no is the default according to smb.conf man, which is the same for both 10.4.4 & 10.4.6. Commenting it out,
or deleting it had no effect. If the default had been changed why the line?

So I looked for other client auth items in the Man file, and made sure
that lanman , ntml2, and plaintext were all set to their defaults in case 10.4.6 was mucking with them. No help, no change, though the Man pages say it
should work and does on 10.4.4. Clearly from the man pages, if lanman was other than the default of being enabled, 98SE would not work, but it is set to
yes in case the default was other than the man pages say on 10.4.6.

In frustration I looked to the only other difference in conf files, the 10.4.4
one had the line
create mode 0750

so, I tried adding it to 10.4.6, again no difference.

Time to step away from this annoying problem for awhile.

From all these details, it looks like something was changed in the
10.4.6 release that breaks Samba authentication with Windows 98. If you
have a AppleCare contract, you could log a call with Apple and report
the problem. This isn't the first time Apple has changed network stuff
that's screwed up older systems.

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:08:58 -0700, Michael Vilain <vilain@spamcop.net> wrote:

|In article <l8hd32lvlo3u46h8gjfndmmjirkkm5rupu@4ax.com>,
| reply@thisnewsgroup.com wrote:
<snip>

Time to step away from this annoying problem for awhile.

|
|From all these details, it looks like something was changed in the
|10.4.6 release that breaks Samba authentication with Windows 98. If you |have a AppleCare contract, you could log a call with Apple and report
|the problem. This isn't the first time Apple has changed network stuff |that's screwed up older systems.

The essense of an email of mine made it to macfixit, and the link http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20060407084429735 may last longer than it's posting on http://www.macfixit.com. Somebody may or may not figure
a workaround which would end up there -- if they do I might even subscribe.

For now I'll assume the worst and rewrite some code to run from the Xp laptop to get certain updated files from my main 98SE machine to the Mac.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

I know I'm jumping into this thread a little late, but just wanted to
let you know that I also updated to 10.4.6 in the past few days and
just realized last night that my Windows 98 SE machine is no longer
able to access shares on the Mac. Before the update (10.4.5)
everything worked wubbulously well, but since installing 10.4.6, Win98
cannot display the shares on the Mac, much less connect to them. It
prompts for the share-level password for a share named
\\[mac_name]\IPC$ and doesn't accept anything intelligible as a
password -- the same behaviour as exhibited when connecting to a
2k/xp/2k3 machine that isn't allowing guests to connect. I spent half
the night recreating user accounts, resetting group permissions, etc.
trying to get it to work. Learning from experience, I keep a full
backup of all my machines. I restored the Mac to the last backup
before 10.4.6 was installed, and guess what -- the Win98 machine talks
to it perfectly. Leaving all the network, user, and sharing settings
alone, I installed the 10.4.6 update again. You know what happened
next -- yep, it's broken again. I haven't spent enough time to
actually attempt to figure out what has changed in 10.4.6, but I'm a
bit surprised that we haven't seen more documentation of this on the
'net by now.

The 98 machine is in my living room and I use it all the time to play
MP3s, watch MPEGs, and play console video game cart images in emulators
-- all of that media is stored on the Mac. I could add more storage to
the computer with XP and move all that media there, but I _really_
don't want to. ;-)

BTW, your article link to macfixit doesn't work for me -- it insists I subscribe to macfixit to see the message(s).

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 11 Apr 2006 15:08:05 -0700, toastyking@gmail.com wrote:

|I know I'm jumping into this thread a little late, but just wanted to
|let you know that I also updated to 10.4.6 in the past few days and
|just realized last night that my Windows 98 SE machine is no longer
|able to access shares on the Mac. Before the update (10.4.5)
<snip>
|BTW, your article link to macfixit doesn't work for me -- it insists I |subscribe to macfixit to see the message(s).

Sorry about that. I had forgotten that the articles age in macfixit, so I can't even see it myself now. However, before it aged all it said was
somebody (me) had confirmed a problem, and it quoted a few lines that are a small subset of my comments here.

Similar, but updated information, sent to macwindows.com, nothing ever showed up there.

You've independently confirmed what I needed confirmation on. There probably won't be much more documentation if you and I are the only ones to post here because we have the problem.

Maybe somebody familiar with the guts of Samba will come up with something we can add to smb.conf some day.

toastyking - I sent you a bit more in an email, but your email address may be as fake as mine or it might have lingered in a spam filter. Don't think the extra comments were of interest to general mac community. However if you want to contact me by email use the link http://tinyurl.com/of3d5
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