From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

alvin <wam_bli@NO_SPAM-EMAILS_canada.com> wrote:

We were told that there were no hardware problems...my daughter has
taken it back in, they are currently looking at it again. Disk
Warrior is only available by purchase, looks like. Where we live,
looks like it would be around $ 120, almost out of range. Would Disk
Warrior show the cause for the recurring problem, or fix it, a
re-install does that as well.

Disk Warrior is by far and away the best disk utility available. If
your problem isn't hardware-related, DW will fix it. Many of us think
all Mac users should own a copy.

When you talk of reinstalling, do you mean you've erased the hard drive
and started over? If so, then that pretty much rules out software
problems, since you're started with a new directory each time, and it
does look like the drive should be replaced, regardless of what the
people at the repair shop tell you.
--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Mike Rosenberg <mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid> wrote:

Strider <gkar@myrealbox.com> wrote:

alvin <wam_bli@NO_SPAM-EMAILS_canada.com> wrote:

Hi, this has happened 3 times now

If this problem has happened three times it is quite likely the drive
needs to be replaced

Whoa! There's no indication that they've run Disk Warrior, so at this
point we can't rule out directory problems.

He stated this has happened 3 times and the two previous times the drive
had been wiped. Wiping the drive would have resolved the directory
problem for that incident. If a drive develops the same directory error
three times running, an error that cannot be resolved by Apple's Disk
First Aid, I think we can start looking for hardware issues.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Strider <gkar@myrealbox.com> wrote:

He stated this has happened 3 times and the two previous times the drive
had been wiped. Wiping the drive would have resolved the directory
problem for that incident. If a drive develops the same directory error
three times running, an error that cannot be resolved by Apple's Disk
First Aid, I think we can start looking for hardware issues.

Oh, I certainly agree with you, but in his original post he gave no
indication he had erased the drive at any point. I did subsequently
find that info in a followup of his.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Hmm, suddenly my brain is opening...we re-installed the first
time...pretty sure we erased, not just a reinstall. The place we took
it to installed 10.2, backing up the previous stuff to a folder - is
the drive being erased in this case ?

No; this is just a reinstall.

If they had erased the drive, the only thing that would have been on the drive when you got it back would have been the system--all your folders, programs, and data would have been gone.

If a disk's directory has a problem, and you reinstall without fixing that problem, you don't do yourself any favors--and you may, in fact, make the problem worse.

--
Rude T-shirts for a rude age: http://www.villaintees.com
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more: http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 02 Jul 2003 20:56:02 GMT, tacitr@aol.com (Tacit) wrote:

Hmm, suddenly my brain is opening...we re-installed the first >>time...pretty sure we erased, not just a reinstall. The place we took
it to installed 10.2, backing up the previous stuff to a folder - is
the drive being erased in this case ?

No; this is just a reinstall.

If they had erased the drive, the only thing that would have been on the drive >when you got it back would have been the system--all your folders, programs, >and data would have been gone.

If a disk's directory has a problem, and you reinstall without fixing that >problem, you don't do yourself any favors--and you may, in fact, make the >problem worse.

Just got word that the hard drive needs replacing. Where we are,
the cheapest new drive we can buy is $ 149 (with tax approx $ 170).
My daughter isn't too trusting of anything more she'll have to pay for
with the computer. This is similar

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_400_indigo.html

though she has 128 MB RAM and a 20 GB hard drive. She's not sure
of the present value if she would want to sell after the new drive, so
we're not sure what the next step is.

Thanks for your help and for taking the time to respond and
discuss, much appreciated.

Al
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:16:02 GMT, alvin
<gettingwaytoomuchspam@canada.com> wrote:

On 02 Jul 2003 20:56:02 GMT, tacitr@aol.com (Tacit) wrote:

Hmm, suddenly my brain is opening...we re-installed the first >>>time...pretty sure we erased, not just a reinstall. The place we took
it to installed 10.2, backing up the previous stuff to a folder - is
the drive being erased in this case ?

No; this is just a reinstall.

If they had erased the drive, the only thing that would have been on the drive
when you got it back would have been the system--all your folders, programs, >>and data would have been gone.

If a disk's directory has a problem, and you reinstall without fixing that >>problem, you don't do yourself any favors--and you may, in fact, make the >>problem worse.

Just got word that the hard drive needs replacing. Where we are,
the cheapest new drive we can buy is $ 149 (with tax approx $ 170).
My daughter isn't too trusting of anything more she'll have to pay for
with the computer. This is similar

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_400_indigo.html

though she has 128 MB RAM and a 20 GB hard drive. She's not sure
of the present value if she would want to sell after the new drive, so
we're not sure what the next step is.

Thanks for your help and for taking the time to respond and
discuss, much appreciated.

Al

Given that you can walk into any CompUSA/BestBuy/etc and get a drive,
why not just buy a 40GB IDE drive that commonly goes on sale for $30
at one of those local merchants? Fry's has it for $29 right now.

$150 for a drive is outrageous unless it's a 200GB monstrosity, but I
doubt the iMac would support it.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:35:05 -0400, mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid (Mike
Rosenberg) wrote:

alvin <gettingwaytoomuchspam@canada.com> wrote:

Just got word that the hard drive needs replacing. Where we are,
the cheapest new drive we can buy is $ 149 (with tax approx $ 170).

$149 for a 20 GB hard drive??! They're readily available for around
US$60, which as of today is only $80 Canadian. If that price doesn't
include the installation, you're being ripped off.

Any idea if this system would be able to use a Quantum Fireball
LM15 720 RPM drive ? The guy at the shop said it should be a 5400 RPM
drive or under, does that make sense ? The $ 149 was for a 40 GB
drive, sorry about that. I have the Quantum available to use, but am
not sure if the system will use it, sure hope so.

Thanks,

Al

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:04:25 GMT, foo <foo@bar.com> wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:16:02 GMT, alvin
<gettingwaytoomuchspam@canada.com> wrote:

On 02 Jul 2003 20:56:02 GMT, tacitr@aol.com (Tacit) wrote:

Hmm, suddenly my brain is opening...we re-installed the first >>>>time...pretty sure we erased, not just a reinstall. The place we took >>>>it to installed 10.2, backing up the previous stuff to a folder - is >>>>the drive being erased in this case ?

No; this is just a reinstall.

If they had erased the drive, the only thing that would have been on the drive
when you got it back would have been the system--all your folders, programs, >>>and data would have been gone.

If a disk's directory has a problem, and you reinstall without fixing that >>>problem, you don't do yourself any favors--and you may, in fact, make the >>>problem worse.

Just got word that the hard drive needs replacing. Where we are,
the cheapest new drive we can buy is $ 149 (with tax approx $ 170).
My daughter isn't too trusting of anything more she'll have to pay for
with the computer. This is similar

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_400_indigo.html

though she has 128 MB RAM and a 20 GB hard drive. She's not sure
of the present value if she would want to sell after the new drive, so >>we're not sure what the next step is.

Thanks for your help and for taking the time to respond and
discuss, much appreciated.

Al

Given that you can walk into any CompUSA/BestBuy/etc and get a drive,
why not just buy a 40GB IDE drive that commonly goes on sale for $30
at one of those local merchants? Fry's has it for $29 right now.

$150 for a drive is outrageous unless it's a 200GB monstrosity, but I
doubt the iMac would support it.

Any idea if this system would be able to use a Quantum Fireball
LM15 720 RPM drive ? The guy at the shop said it should be a 5400 RPM
drive or under, does that make sense ? The $ 149 was for a 40 GB
drive, sorry about that. I have the Quantum available to use, but am
not sure if the system will use it, sure hope so.

Thanks,

Al

I'm in Canada, the best price I have seen around where I live is a

30 Gb 2Mb 7200 Rpm Maxtor Ata 133 for $ 86, we just opened a
BestBuy here, haven't gotten there yet, the
http://www.bestbuycanada.ca/ website doesn't have any prices.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Bev A. Kupf <bevakupf@ebv.mimnet.northwestern.edu> wrote:

I think that is the basis of his advice to use 5400 rpm (or slower)
drives. I also think his advice is a bunch of bunk.

And even if it's not bunk (although I agree with you that it is), a 5400
rpm drive should be less expensive than a 7200 rpm model anyway.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:15:12 -0400,
Mike Rosenberg (mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid) wrote:

Bev A. Kupf <bevakupf@ebv.mimnet.northwestern.edu> wrote:

I think that is the basis of his advice to use 5400 rpm (or slower)
drives. I also think his advice is a bunch of bunk.

And even if it's not bunk (although I agree with you that it is), a 5400
rpm drive should be less expensive than a 7200 rpm model anyway.

Agreed. At our local outlet, a 40GB Maxtor 5400 rpm drive is $72.19 (Fireball3), while the equivalent 7200 rpm drive (DiamondMax Plus8) is
$74.55

Even converting to Canadian prices that is a heck of a lot cheaper than
what Alvin was quoted.

Bev
--
Bev A. Kupf
Bev's House of Pancakes
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 4 Jul 2003 23:50:03 GMT, "Bev A. Kupf" <bevakupf@ebv.mimnet.northwestern.edu> wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:15:12 -0400,
Mike Rosenberg (mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid) wrote:

Bev A. Kupf <bevakupf@ebv.mimnet.northwestern.edu> wrote:

I think that is the basis of his advice to use 5400 rpm (or slower)
drives. I also think his advice is a bunch of bunk.

And even if it's not bunk (although I agree with you that it is), a 5400
rpm drive should be less expensive than a 7200 rpm model anyway.

Agreed. At our local outlet, a 40GB Maxtor 5400 rpm drive is $72.19 >(Fireball3), while the equivalent 7200 rpm drive (DiamondMax Plus8) is
$74.55

Even converting to Canadian prices that is a heck of a lot cheaper than
what Alvin was quoted.

Bev

There are some cheaper places in Canada to buy equipment, but I
usually get green when I see prices like that. Even for blank CDR
media, I'm usually there if I can get 50 for $ 25, the lowest I have
seen Japanese Taiyo Yudens is $ 35 for 50. I know of someone who has
a new (oem ?) 30 GB drive for $ 76 (2 MB cache), lowest I have seen.
The original price quoted to me was from the only all - Mac store in
our city, prices are usually higher there. I may be able to get a
used 20 GB drive (7200 rpm) that I could put in the Imac. Anyone like
to comment on how easy / hard it is to open the case and replace the
drive ? Or would that would be like anything else, seems daunting but
when you do it (after the blue in the air clears) it was much easier
than expected ? Looking at a couple of online sites here, they don't
even list a 5400 rpm drive.

Thanks,

Al

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

alvin <gettingwaytoomuchspam@canada.com> wrote:

On 4 Jul 2003 23:50:03 GMT, "Bev A. Kupf" <bevakupf@ebv.mimnet.northwestern.edu> wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:15:12 -0400,
Mike Rosenberg (mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid) wrote:

Bev A. Kupf <bevakupf@ebv.mimnet.northwestern.edu> wrote:

I think that is the basis of his advice to use 5400 rpm (or slower)
drives. I also think his advice is a bunch of bunk.

And even if it's not bunk (although I agree with you that it is), a 5400 >> rpm drive should be less expensive than a 7200 rpm model anyway.

Agreed. At our local outlet, a 40GB Maxtor 5400 rpm drive is $72.19 >(Fireball3), while the equivalent 7200 rpm drive (DiamondMax Plus8) is >$74.55

Even converting to Canadian prices that is a heck of a lot cheaper than >what Alvin was quoted.

Bev

There are some cheaper places in Canada to buy equipment, but I
usually get green when I see prices like that. Even for blank CDR
media, I'm usually there if I can get 50 for $ 25, the lowest I have
seen Japanese Taiyo Yudens is $ 35 for 50. I know of someone who has
a new (oem ?) 30 GB drive for $ 76 (2 MB cache), lowest I have seen.
The original price quoted to me was from the only all - Mac store in
our city, prices are usually higher there. I may be able to get a
used 20 GB drive (7200 rpm) that I could put in the Imac. Anyone like
to comment on how easy / hard it is to open the case and replace the
drive ? Or would that would be like anything else, seems daunting but
when you do it (after the blue in the air clears) it was much easier
than expected ? Looking at a couple of online sites here, they don't
even list a 5400 rpm drive.

I'm assuming we are talking a colorful iMac? I've done drive
replacements on the original Bondi blue and later slot loading machines.
The job is finicky but not really hard - until it comes to putting the
computer back together again.

Use Google to do a search on iMac hard drive replacement. You'll find
several sites that include pictures of the job.

Basically, with the iMac sitting on its screen (put a couple towels down
on the work surface) take the case apart, disconnect a couple wires, and
pull the innards (don't you like technical terms?) up and out of the
plastic case. Pay very very close attention to how the innards are
arranged because you have to get them back that way!! If you have a
digital camera, have some one taking pictures over your shoulder as you
lift it out. Seriously, getting it back in is the hardest part of the
job.

After lifing out the innards you take off a wire cage, remove the drive
power cable and IDE cable, disconnect the drive, plug in the new drive,
and put it all back together again. If you have a slot loading machine
you'll immediately get to see if you got the innards lined up right.
Does the boot CD go in? Dang it!! Take appart and reseat!

Anyway, boot the computer with the system CD, use Disk Utilities to
format the drive and reinstall the OS.

The first time I did this it took me 45 minutes - I took my time paying
close attention and drawing pictures as I took it apart. And it took me
about 10 minutes to get the drive/logic board assembly mounted into the
case properly. The second one took me 10 minutes.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

alvin <gettingwaytoomuchspam@canada.com> wrote:

[big snip]

Thanks for this Stridr, very much appreciated, am doing the Google
search. So far my biggest problem is getting it apart...not a good
start :-) Took out 2 screws underneath, but can't figure out how &
where to seperate the machine. Googling, but haven't found pix yet,
they will be very handy. Much appreciated.

Sorry - I should have mentioned http://www.theimac.com

You should find everything you need there.
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