From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

I'm not a Mac guy but my daughter's iBook HD went out, so I installed
another. However when I try to install the OS from the install CD's it
say's that it can't install on the HD and has a big red exclamation
icon on it. I used the drive utility to create one big partition and
clean whatever was on the drive off. When I look at the properties of
the drive in drive utility it says bootable. Anyone got any ideas how
to fix this? I hoping it's something simple that my lack of Mac
knowledge is up against.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

FLY135 <fly_135@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'm not a Mac guy but my daughter's iBook HD went out, so I installed another. However when I try to install the OS from the install CD's it
say's that it can't install on the HD and has a big red exclamation
icon on it. I used the drive utility to create one big partition and
clean whatever was on the drive off. When I look at the properties of
the drive in drive utility it says bootable. Anyone got any ideas how
to fix this?

Can you be more specific about the iBook model and about how you
formatted these partitions? m.


--
matt neuburg, phd = matt@tidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
AppleScript - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596102119
Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

FLY135 <fly_135@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'm not a Mac guy but my daughter's iBook HD went out, so I installed another. However when I try to install the OS from the install CD's it
say's that it can't install on the HD and has a big red exclamation
icon on it. I used the drive utility to create one big partition and
clean whatever was on the drive off. When I look at the properties of
the drive in drive utility it says bootable. Anyone got any ideas how
to fix this? I hoping it's something simple that my lack of Mac
knowledge is up against.

Two possible explanations occur to me. I think the second one is most
likely.

1. If it is a very old iBook model (466 MHz or slower, has a
white-and-coloured curved case with a carry handle) then there is a
limitation in the firmware which requires Mac OS X to be installed on a partition which is located completely within the first 8 GB of the hard
drive.

You must partition the hard drive such that the first partition is
slightly under 8 GB, and any remaining space can be allocated to a
second partition (which should mainly be used for data storage).

See this article on Apple's web site for further details:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106235

2. If the CD you are attempting to install from is an "Upgrade" version
of Mac OS X then it cannot be installed on a bare hard drive, only on
top of an existing Mac OS X installation (typically an earlier version).

These CDs were supplied with a computer purchased shortly after a new
version of Mac OS X was released (or available at low cost for a limited
time, if not supplied with the computer).

In order to install from this CD, you will have to locate the original
CDs supplied with the computer (which will probably be a multi-CD set),
and use the "Restore" CD set to put the original software back on the
drive. You can then use the Mac OS X "Upgrade" CD to install a later
version of Mac OS X on top of the original one.

This is usually a better option than starting from the original
"Install" CD, because it ensures that all applications supplied with the computer are present. Some are not included as part of a separate Mac OS
X installation (e.g. iPhoto may be supplied with the computer, not as
part of a standalone Mac OS X installation), and using the "Install" CD
may require multiple installation steps. It also takes a lot less time
to do a "Restore" than a full install of Mac OS X.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <1he2ci0.1ypxwdn1jtuhniN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David
Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

1. If it is a very old iBook model (466 MHz or slower, has a white-and-coloured curved case with a carry handle) then there is a limitation in the firmware which requires Mac OS X to be installed on a partition which is located completely within the first 8 GB of the hard drive.

My clamshell iBook has a 40GB hard drive, partitioned into a single
chunk, running Panther.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system


matt neuburg wrote:

Can you be more specific about the iBook model and about how you
formatted these partitions? m.

I found this on Apple's web site...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220

I think that the problem is that I didn't....

- Look for the "Partition Type:" line. A PowerPC-based Mac can only
install Mac OS X on a disk with the "Apple_partition_scheme."

I didn't see this when I partitioned. And I figured that it would
default to the correct partition type. I hope this is the problem.
The error is exactly as described on the link.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system


David Empson wrote:

1. If it is a very old iBook model (466 MHz or slower, has a white-and-coloured curved case with a carry handle) then there is a limitation in the firmware which requires Mac OS X to be installed on a partition which is located completely within the first 8 GB of the hard drive.

You must partition the hard drive such that the first partition is
slightly under 8 GB, and any remaining space can be allocated to a
second partition (which should mainly be used for data storage).

See this article on Apple's web site for further details:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106235

I'll keep this in mind. I believe the iBook is 800Mhz. The error I'm
getting is described in the link in my other post. If the other fix
doens't work I'll try making a small boot partition.

2. If the CD you are attempting to install from is an "Upgrade" version
of Mac OS X then it cannot be installed on a bare hard drive, only on
top of an existing Mac OS X installation (typically an earlier version).

It's not an upgrade version. The error I got from trying a upgrade
version referenced the fact that it was an upgrade.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

FLY135 wrote:

matt neuburg wrote:

Can you be more specific about the iBook model and about how you
formatted these partitions? m.

I found this on Apple's web site...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220

I think that the problem is that I didn't....

- Look for the "Partition Type:" line. A PowerPC-based Mac can only
install Mac OS X on a disk with the "Apple_partition_scheme."

I didn't see this when I partitioned. And I figured that it would
default to the correct partition type. I hope this is the problem.
The error is exactly as described on the link.

The link refers to differing partition schema for Intel Macs vs. PPCs.

Besides, you have one partition. It's probably that your OEM install
disk is checking for specs that are no longer there, as your HD is
different from the original.

If you have a retail install disk of any osX, try that. And, yes, I'd
reformat just before the install to be sure.

--
john mcwilliams
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <ncKdna0bu7_XzNvZRVn-uQ@comcast.com>, John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

Besides, you have one partition. It's probably that your OEM install
disk is checking for specs that are no longer there, as your HD is
different from the original.

I've swapped drives into PowerBooks and not had any problem installing.
FWIW.

If you have a retail install disk of any osX, try that. And, yes, I'd reformat just before the install to be sure.

You are aware that there is no such thing as a "reformat" for ATA
drives, right? There is an "erase" function in Disk Utility, but no
"reformat".
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Randall Ainsworth <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote:

In article <1he2ci0.1ypxwdn1jtuhniN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David
Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

1. If it is a very old iBook model (466 MHz or slower, has a white-and-coloured curved case with a carry handle) then there is a limitation in the firmware which requires Mac OS X to be installed on a partition which is located completely within the first 8 GB of the hard drive.

My clamshell iBook has a 40GB hard drive, partitioned into a single
chunk, running Panther.

That's odd. Is Apple's article wrong? It explicity lists the first two
iBook models as being affected.

Perhaps this was addressed in a firmware update, or Panther had a
workaround such as ensuring the critical file(s) loaded by Open Firmware
are located within the first 8 GB.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

FLY135 <fly_135@hotmail.com> wrote:

matt neuburg wrote:

Can you be more specific about the iBook model and about how you
formatted these partitions? m.

I found this on Apple's web site...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220

That shouldn't be relevant - it only applies to recent Mac models with
Intel processors.

I think that the problem is that I didn't....

- Look for the "Partition Type:" line. A PowerPC-based Mac can only
install Mac OS X on a disk with the "Apple_partition_scheme."

I didn't see this when I partitioned. And I figured that it would
default to the correct partition type. I hope this is the problem.
The error is exactly as described on the link.

With the latest Tiger version of Disk Utility there is an Options
button. On my PowerBook G4 it offers three choices:

GUID Partition Table (for starting up an Intel Mac)
Apple Partition Table (for starting up a PowerPC Mac)
Master Boot Record (for starting up DOS or Windows)

Only the second one will work if you want to boot an iBook. It should be
the default.

The Panther version and earlier Tiger versions of Disk Utility
(including the CD/DVD for 10.4) probably don't offer the GUID choice.

Other comments:

- It would be useful to confirm the iBook's processor speed, but if it
is a white rectangular model then it is at least 500 MHz and is
supported by all versions of Mac OS X to date, which rules out version incompatibilities.

- I'm assuming the hard drive is installed inside the iBook. If you
connected it via USB then the error is appearing because Mac OS X cannot
be booted from a USB drive, so the installer won't let you proceed. The
drive must be mounted internally or connected via Firewire.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Dave Balderstone wrote:

In article <ncKdna0bu7_XzNvZRVn-uQ@comcast.com>, John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

Besides, you have one partition. It's probably that your OEM install
disk is checking for specs that are no longer there, as your HD is >>different from the original.

I've swapped drives into PowerBooks and not had any problem installing.
FWIW.

Just to be clear: using the OEM disk that came with the PB?

If you have a retail install disk of any osX, try that. And, yes, I'd >>reformat just before the install to be sure.

You are aware that there is no such thing as a "reformat" for ATA
drives, right? There is an "erase" function in Disk Utility, but no "reformat".

Is there anything to this point other than semantics?

--
John McWilliams
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <2ImdnaFEQJFr_tvZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

Just to be clear: using the OEM disk that came with the PB?

Yes

Is there anything to this point other than semantics?

Semantics is defined in my dictionary as "related to meaning."

If you are telling a new user to do a "reformat", then that user is
likely to waste time searching for a non-existant command, and then
come back to tell you he can't find the option.

Use the correct terminology. To do otherwise wastes peoples' time.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Dave Balderstone wrote:

In article <2ImdnaFEQJFr_tvZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

Just to be clear: using the OEM disk that came with the PB?

Yes

Is there anything to this point other than semantics?

Semantics is defined in my dictionary as "related to meaning."

If you are telling a new user to do a "reformat", then that user is
likely to waste time searching for a non-existant command, and then
come back to tell you he can't find the option.

Use the correct terminology. To do otherwise wastes peoples' time.

Dave-

Your message is clear, and I don't disagree, but you have a high-handed
way of expressing it. Er, not exclusive to me nor this subject.

--
John McWilliams
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <kOednejh4ISF6tvZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

Your message is clear, and I don't disagree, but you have a high-handed
way of expressing it. Er, not exclusive to me nor this subject.

<shrug>

Welcome to USENET, open to all.

--
"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B, sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

FLY135 <fly_135@hotmail.com> wrote:

matt neuburg wrote:

Can you be more specific about the iBook model and about how you
formatted these partitions? m.

I found this on Apple's web site...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220

I think that the problem is that I didn't....

- Look for the "Partition Type:" line. A PowerPC-based Mac can only
install Mac OS X on a disk with the "Apple_partition_scheme."

I didn't see this when I partitioned. And I figured that it would
default to the correct partition type. I hope this is the problem.
The error is exactly as described on the link.

I can't resist observing that you did not answer the question. What you
should do depends upon what kind of Mac this is, so it is impossible to
discern whether you did what you should have done, and whether there is
an obvious correction, unless we know how the partition was formatted
and what model you are talking about.

m.

--
matt neuburg, phd = matt@tidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
AppleScript - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596102119
Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system


matt neuburg wrote:

I can't resist observing that you did not answer the question. What you should do depends upon what kind of Mac this is, so it is impossible to discern whether you did what you should have done, and whether there is
an obvious correction, unless we know how the partition was formatted
and what model you are talking about.

That's because I thought that I had already found the answer. Or at
least the next thing to try. Turns out that I simply needed to reboot
the iBook after partitioning. I went home at lunch today and booted up
the install disk with the intention of checking my partition type.
This time the install was happy with the drive.

Apparently when you install a foreign disk, then partition it and
create the file system, the OS install doesn't like the drive until the
iBook is rebooted. FDISK on the PC used to do that too, except it
would ask to reboot on exiting the utility.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Dave Balderstone wrote:

In article <kOednejh4ISF6tvZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

Your message is clear, and I don't disagree, but you have a high-handed >>way of expressing it. Er, not exclusive to me nor this subject.

<shrug>

I expected no more and no less than that.

Welcome to USENET, open to all.

Of course, Dave, you're all opinion, 24/7, but thanks for the welcome.
I'm glad it's still open to us all.

--
John McWilliams
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <ws-dnfI4o5loMdvZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

I expected no more and no less than that.

Then why did you ask?

Welcome to USENET, open to all.

Of course, Dave, you're all opinion, 24/7, but thanks for the welcome.

Opinion on some things, experience in others, expertise in yet more.
I've been doing user support long enough (over 20 years, BTW) that I no
longer suffer fools gladly, am aware of and confident in my knowledge
and abilities, and long past overly concerning myself with those who
launch personal attacks on USENET. I also enjoy the use of sarcasm,
particulary when the people I apply it to fail to recognize it.

Bottom line: You (deliberately or just out of laziness?) gave the OP
erroneous advice, and I corrected it. You seem to have a problem with
that, but it ain't *my* problem. Why should I worry about your reaction
to my posts in a public, unmoderated, open forum? If you want
discussion forums where your particular expectations will be met,
you're entirely free to go find or create one.

You also have the freedom to use the filtering and killlfile
capabilities of your newsreader, but I'm sure you don't need me to tell
you that.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Dave Balderstone wrote:

In article <ws-dnfI4o5loMdvZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

I expected no more and no less than that.

Then why did you ask?

Welcome to USENET, open to all.

Of course, Dave, you're all opinion, 24/7, but thanks for the welcome.

Opinion on some things, experience in others, expertise in yet more.
I've been doing user support long enough (over 20 years, BTW) that I no longer suffer fools gladly, am aware of and confident in my knowledge
and abilities, and long past overly concerning myself with those who
launch personal attacks on USENET. I also enjoy the use of sarcasm, particulary when the people I apply it to fail to recognize it.

Bottom line: You (deliberately or just out of laziness?) gave the OP erroneous advice, and I corrected it. You seem to have a problem with
that, but it ain't *my* problem. Why should I worry about your reaction
to my posts in a public, unmoderated, open forum? If you want
discussion forums where your particular expectations will be met,
you're entirely free to go find or create one.

You also have the freedom to use the filtering and killlfile
capabilities of your newsreader, but I'm sure you don't need me to tell
you that.

All right; I over did it. My erroneous advice, tho, was using a term
familiar to most, but not included in the menu of Disk Utility;
certainly not deliberately, nor was it lazy, unless you expect one to go through each step of a suggested procedure, something I did in fact do
when I was tech support.

In any event, I was suggesting that you could modify the form in which
you give advice, which sometimes comes across as dismissive, possibly arrogant.

That's not to suggest you begin to suffer fools gladly or anything....

Ah, anyway, did not mean to ire- well, not a lot....

--
John McWilliams
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <4u2dnZ39ufcpSdvZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, John
McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote:

All right; I over did it. My erroneous advice, tho, was using a term familiar to most, but not included in the menu of Disk Utility;
certainly not deliberately, nor was it lazy, unless you expect one to go through each step of a suggested procedure, something I did in fact do
when I was tech support.

It's something I do quite often when offering advice here, just because
things have changed a lot in the last five years. I find myself tempted
to use the "old, familiar terms" but it's important to realize that new
Mac users won't know them at all.

In any event, I was suggesting that you could modify the form in which
you give advice, which sometimes comes across as dismissive, possibly arrogant.

I appreciate that. Sometimes I am dismissive and, yes, arrogant. Often,
it's quite deliberate. I can be that way in person, too. Even at work.

Text is a communication medium without body language and intonation,
two things we humans use extensively to understand context. We need to
be careful with it as a result.

That's not to suggest you begin to suffer fools gladly or anything....

I didn't think that for a moment. ;-)

Ah, anyway, did not mean to ire- well, not a lot....

I don't mind getting poked occasionally. Keeps me on my toes. Pax.
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