From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In the Windows newsgroup we were discussing how Windows differs from iOS and Android in terms of (a) frequency of update (b) length of update (c)
component separation and (d) mandatory versus voluntary (see below).

Can someone who knows macOS explain how it generally is updated?

See the context of the question in the discussion included in the sig.
--
John Doe wrote on 02.05.2021 21:38

That's how operating systems are, generally. You might be able to choose, Apple or Android, but you may as well get used to whatever they feed you.

What's really critical is to figure out HOW each operating system updates.
(I think most people still do not understand what I am about to say below.)

Windows 10 for example, seems to have (at least) 4 major components
(1) The operating system (updated about twice yearly, is voluntary I think)
(2) The security patches (updated about monthly, I'm not sure if mandatory)
(3) Microsoft key apps (updated asynchronously I think, voluntary I think)
(4) All the rest of your (non Microsoft core) apps (updated asynchronously)

Within reason all four of these main parts seem to be updated frequently for (almost) as long as you can practically own the device (at least in terms of pragmatic typical electronic system lifetimes I think).

In contrast Android has a different update model with different lifetimes.
(1) The operating system (updated about yearly, is voluntary)
(2) The security patches (updated about monthly, I think are also voluntary) (3) Google key apps (updated many times a month I think, voluntary I think)
(4) Core framework of currently about 25 functions (updated often I think)
(5) All the rest of your (non Google core) apps (updated asynchronously)

The difference is parts #1 and #2 are pushed out by the device manufacturer. And they push them out for three or four (how long depends on the OEM).

Parts #3 and #4 (eg Projects Treble & Mainline) are not only far more
frequent than most people realize but they both completely bypass the manufacturer of the phone and they both occur at that frequency for
essentially the life of the Android device using the Google Play update mechanism (at least within general practical electronic terms).

Part #5 also lasts essentially for the life of the device (as with Windows).

In huge contrast, currently iOS is completely different in terms of updates. (1) The operating system (updated roughly about monthly or so, is voluntary) (2) All the rest of your (non Apple core) apps (updated asynchronously)

And iOS is completely different in that there is a cutoff life that is
longer for some things and shorter for others.

Anyone who claims iOS is updated either longer or shorter than for the other consumer operating system is just ignorant because for some things iOS is updated longer and for other things it's updated for shorter lifetimes.

Likewise anyone who claims iOS is updated either more frequently or less frequently is also ignorant because for some things iOS is updated more frequently and for others iOS is updated far less frequently (mostly due to
the nature that everything is currently lumped into a single OS release).

Notice how hugely different these three operating system update models are? They're NOT the same.

Not in length of support.
Nor in frequency.

Mostly due to how Android & Windows & iOS break components down into parts.

BTW, if someone can list how Linux and macOS break components into parts it would be instructive for all of us in terms of learning the differences.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 5/2/21 9:54 PM, paul wrote:

What's really critical is to figure out HOW each operating system updates.
(I think most people still do not understand what I am about to say below.)

Windows 10 for example, seems to have (at least) 4 major components
(1) The operating system (updated about twice yearly, is voluntary I think) (2) The security patches (updated about monthly, I'm not sure if mandatory)

No system updates are voluntary Windows 10. You can delay things for a
month, but after that updates WILL be forced on you.

In this area, Windows sucks ass.

In huge contrast, currently iOS is completely different in terms of updates. (1) The operating system (updated roughly about monthly or so, is voluntary) (2) All the rest of your (non Apple core) apps (updated asynchronously)

And iOS is completely different in that there is a cutoff life that is
longer for some things and shorter for others.

iOS has a minimum of 5 years of OS upgrades. Miniumum. Which is WAY
longer than Android anything.

I still have a iPhone 5. SEVEN years old at the time. It was running 10.3.3. In September 2019 I turned it on the for hell of it. I was
stunned to see an iOS update. It is now running 10.3.4.

Yahoo it, you will see that iOS 10.3.3 DID receive an update.

Anyone who claims iOS is updated either longer or shorter than for the other consumer operating system is just ignorant because for some things iOS is updated longer and for other things it's updated for shorter lifetimes.

Anyone who claims iOS is NOT updated longer than Android is a lying
Android shill.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-03 04:29:09 +0000, Bob Campbell said:

On 5/2/21 9:54 PM, paul wrote:

What's really critical is to figure out HOW each operating system updates. >> (I think most people still do not understand what I am about to say below.) >>
Windows 10 for example, seems to have (at least) 4 major components
(1) The operating system (updated about twice yearly, is voluntary I think) >> (2) The security patches (updated about monthly, I'm not sure if mandatory)

No system updates are voluntary Windows 10. You can delay things for a month, but after that updates WILL be forced on you.

In this area, Windows sucks ass.

<snip>

What do you mean "in this area"?!?

Windoze, and every other Microsloth product, "sucks ass" in *EVERY*
area. Always has done, always will do.


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 03/05/2021 02:54, paul wrote:

In the Windows newsgroup we were discussing how Windows differs from iOS and Android in terms of (a) frequency of update (b) length of update (c) component separation and (d) mandatory versus voluntary (see below).

Can someone who knows macOS explain how it generally is updated?

See the context of the question in the discussion included in the sig.

Hello Paul :-D

May I suggest that you read this article, written by an Apple 'guru',
which you may find helpful? Howard's Blog is 'out of this world!

https://eclecticlight.co/2020/09/30/were-apples-system-updates-less-frequent-and-more-reliable/

If there's more practical info. you'd like, please ask. I'm certainly no
guru (not even a techie!) but I have been using and updating different
Macs. since 2009 (Leopard to start - now using Big Sur)

You may find this Apple article helpful:-

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201260

--
Warm regards,
David B.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <JJmdnTlk35GL4RL9nZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d@supernews.com>, Bob
Campbell <none@none.none> wrote:

iOS has a minimum of 5 years of OS upgrades. Miniumum. Which is WAY longer than Android anything.

yep.

I still have a iPhone 5. SEVEN years old at the time. It was running 10.3.3. In September 2019 I turned it on the for hell of it. I was stunned to see an iOS update. It is now running 10.3.4.

Yahoo it, you will see that iOS 10.3.3 DID receive an update.

the iphone 5s, released a year after the 5 (september, 2013), had a
security update just over a month ago and another two months prior, in
january, 2021.

Anyone who claims iOS is updated either longer or shorter than for the other
consumer operating system is just ignorant because for some things iOS is updated longer and for other things it's updated for shorter lifetimes.

Anyone who claims iOS is NOT updated longer than Android is a lying
Android shill.

in this case, it's 'arlen' the troll.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Your Name wrote on 03.05.2021 09:57

Windoze, and every other Microsloth product, "sucks ass" in *EVERY*
area. Always has done, always will do.

*Can someone who knows macOS explain how it actually is updated?*

This OS update question was asked on all the other newsgroups
who answered the questions in detail & without such childishness.

The Android, Windows, and Linux owners don't believe anything
Google or Microsoft or RedHat/Canonical claim on their web sites
unless it turns out to be actually true & correct information.

Only Apple owners tend to believe EVERYTHING on an Apple web site.
As a result Apple owners tend to be ignorant of how OS's are updated
(IMHO).

Which you are proving by not being able to answer even simple questions.
I was hoping to find at least 1 macOS owner who knows how its updated.

The question remains:
*Can someone who knows macOS explain how it actually is updated?*

As an example, here is how Windows is actually updated:
(1) Operating system (updated twice yearly - often for a decade or more)
(2) Security patches (updated monthly - often for a decade or more)
(3) Microsoft core apps (updated frequently - often for a decade or more)
(4) All the rest of your (non Microsoft core) apps (updated asynchronously)

*Can someone who knows macOS explain how it actually is updated?*
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-03 8:36 a.m., paul wrote:

Your Name wrote on 03.05.2021 09:57

Windoze, and every other Microsloth product, "sucks ass" in *EVERY*
area. Always has done, always will do.

*Can someone who knows macOS explain how it actually is updated?*

Yes.

This OS update question was asked on all the other newsgroups
who answered the questions in detail & without such childishness.

The Android, Windows, and Linux owners don't believe anything
Google or Microsoft or RedHat/Canonical claim on their web sites
unless it turns out to be actually true & correct information.

Only Apple owners tend to believe EVERYTHING on an Apple web site.
As a result Apple owners tend to be ignorant of how OS's are updated
(IMHO).

Which you are proving by not being able to answer even simple questions.
I was hoping to find at least 1 macOS owner who knows how its updated.

The question remains:
*Can someone who knows macOS explain how it actually is updated?*

As an example, here is how Windows is actually updated:
(1) Operating system (updated twice yearly - often for a decade or more)
(2) Security patches (updated monthly - often for a decade or more)
(3) Microsoft core apps (updated frequently - often for a decade or more)
(4) All the rest of your (non Microsoft core) apps (updated asynchronously)

None of that is actually explaining HOW it happens.

It's explaining HOW OFTEN it happens.

*Can someone who knows macOS explain how it actually is updated?*

Yes.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Bob Campbell wrote on 03.05.2021 06:29

Yahoo it, you will see that iOS 10.3.3 DID receive an update.

*This thread is asked to ascertain the answer to how _macOS_ is updated.*
/The examples of the other OSs was to show an example of possible answers./

It's clear each consumer OS (Android, iOS, Windows at least) updates quite differently in terms of components, frequencies and support lifetimes.

When I delved into how Windows, Android & iOS update I found the differences quite huge in terms of component parts, frequency of update, length of support, who supplies the updates to the consumer and how the consumer typically obtains those updates (pull or push for example).

When you ask those questions of each consumer OS newsgroup you find these answers vary by quite a lot as to HOW each ecosystem is supported, at what frequency, and for how long.

Specifically what you find out is what is typical is NOT what is advertised
by the manufacturers (whether that's Google, Microsoft, Apple or Canonical).

Which is why the question is being asked here (& of all the OS newsgroups). This thread is asking specifically for information on how macOS is updated.

a- What are the component parts (and who supplies them to the consumer)?
b- What is the (typical) frequency of update of those component parts?
c- For what period of time are those component parts (typically) updated?
d- How does the consumer obtain those component parts (pull or push)?

*Is there any one here who can answer those basic macOS update questions?*
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-03 9:39 a.m., paul wrote:

Bob Campbell wrote on 03.05.2021 06:29

Yahoo it, you will see that iOS 10.3.3 DID receive an update.

*This thread is asked to ascertain the answer to how _macOS_ is updated.*

No, it's not.

It is here so you may attempt (unsuccessfully) to slam Apple.

/The examples of the other OSs was to show an example of possible answers./

It's clear each consumer OS (Android, iOS, Windows at least) updates quite differently in terms of components, frequencies and support lifetimes.

When I delved into how Windows, Android & iOS update I found the differences quite huge in terms of component parts, frequency of update, length of support, who supplies the updates to the consumer and how the consumer typically obtains those updates (pull or push for example).

When you ask those questions of each consumer OS newsgroup you find these answers vary by quite a lot as to HOW each ecosystem is supported, at what frequency, and for how long.

Specifically what you find out is what is typical is NOT what is advertised by the manufacturers (whether that's Google, Microsoft, Apple or Canonical).

Which is why the question is being asked here (& of all the OS newsgroups). This thread is asking specifically for information on how macOS is updated.

a- What are the component parts (and who supplies them to the consumer)?
b- What is the (typical) frequency of update of those component parts?
c- For what period of time are those component parts (typically) updated?
d- How does the consumer obtain those component parts (pull or push)?

*Is there any one here who can answer those basic macOS update questions?*

Yes.

It's just the no one is interested in answering for YOU.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <030520210539476910%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

I still have a iPhone 5. SEVEN years old at the time. It was running 10.3.3. In September 2019 I turned it on the for hell of it. I was stunned to see an iOS update. It is now running 10.3.4.

Yahoo it, you will see that iOS 10.3.3 DID receive an update.

the iphone 5s, released a year after the 5 (september, 2013), had a
security update just over a month ago and another two months prior, in january, 2021.

today brings yet another security update for older devices as far back
as the nearly 8 year old iphone 5s:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341>
Available for: iPhone 5s, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPad Air, iPad
mini 2, iPad mini 3, and iPod touch (6th generation)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 03:52

today brings yet another security update for older devices as far back
as the nearly 8 year old iphone 5s:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341>
Available for: iPhone 5s, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPad Air, iPad
mini 2, iPad mini 3, and iPod touch (6th generation)

This question wasn't about iOS - it was and is about how macOS updates.
/(the same question was asked of each OS on all the other OS groups)/
/The examples of the other OSs was to show an example of huge differences./

But if you're trying to claim iOS is updated either more frequently or for longer periods of time than is Android - you're simply proving you're wrong.

You don't know what you're talking about as you're ignorant of Android.
(All you Apple iOS game players are ignorant of both iOS & Android updates.)

The fact is that some parts of iOS _are_ updated longer than some parts of Android and yet the fact is some parts of iOS are not updated even close).

You just don't like that fact (or you're completely ignorant of the facts).

It's a fact huge parts of Android are updated far longer than anything in
iOS ever was (you're simply ignorant of how Android is updated because you likely get all your Android information from Apple web site advertising).

Apple web sites don't tell you huge portions of Android are updated forever.

But this thread isn't about the fact iOS isn't updated forever like huge portions of (over three dozen) core Android components are updated forever.

This thread is asking specifically for information on how macOS is updated.
a- What are the component parts (and who supplies them to the consumer)?
b- What is the (typical) frequency of update of those component parts?
c- For what period of time are those component parts (typically) updated?
d- How does the consumer obtain those component parts (pull or push)?

*Is there any one here who isn't completely ignorant about macOS updates?*
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-03 9:08 p.m., paul wrote:

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 03:52

today brings yet another security update for older devices as far back
as the nearly 8 year old iphone 5s:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341>
Available for: iPhone 5s, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPad Air, iPad
mini 2, iPad mini 3, and iPod touch (6th generation)

This question wasn't about iOS - it was and is about how macOS updates.
/(the same question was asked of each OS on all the other OS groups)/
/The examples of the other OSs was to show an example of huge differences./

But if you're trying to claim iOS is updated either more frequently or for longer periods of time than is Android - you're simply proving you're wrong.

You don't know what you're talking about as you're ignorant of Android.
(All you Apple iOS game players are ignorant of both iOS & Android updates.)

The fact is that some parts of iOS _are_ updated longer than some parts of Android and yet the fact is some parts of iOS are not updated even close).

You just don't like that fact (or you're completely ignorant of the facts).

It's a fact huge parts of Android are updated far longer than anything in
iOS ever was (you're simply ignorant of how Android is updated because you likely get all your Android information from Apple web site advertising).

Apple web sites don't tell you huge portions of Android are updated forever.

But this thread isn't about the fact iOS isn't updated forever like huge portions of (over three dozen) core Android components are updated forever.

This thread is asking specifically for information on how macOS is updated. a- What are the component parts (and who supplies them to the consumer)?
b- What is the (typical) frequency of update of those component parts?
c- For what period of time are those component parts (typically) updated?
d- How does the consumer obtain those component parts (pull or push)?

*Is there any one here who isn't completely ignorant about macOS updates?*

Other than you? Lots of us.

We're just not interested in helping you on your crusade.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 04/05/2021 05:08, paul wrote:

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 03:52

today brings yet another security update for older devices as far back
as the nearly 8 year old iphone 5s:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341>
Available for: iPhone 5s, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPad Air, iPad
mini 2, iPad mini 3, and iPod touch (6th generation)

This question wasn't about iOS - it was and is about how macOS updates.
/(the same question was asked of each OS on all the other OS groups)/
/The examples of the other OSs was to show an example of huge differences./

But if you're trying to claim iOS is updated either more frequently or for longer periods of time than is Android - you're simply proving you're wrong.

You don't know what you're talking about as you're ignorant of Android.
(All you Apple iOS game players are ignorant of both iOS & Android updates.)

The fact is that some parts of iOS _are_ updated longer than some parts of Android and yet the fact is some parts of iOS are not updated even close).

You just don't like that fact (or you're completely ignorant of the facts).

It's a fact huge parts of Android are updated far longer than anything in
iOS ever was (you're simply ignorant of how Android is updated because you likely get all your Android information from Apple web site advertising).

Apple web sites don't tell you huge portions of Android are updated forever.

But this thread isn't about the fact iOS isn't updated forever like huge portions of (over three dozen) core Android components are updated forever.

This thread is asking specifically for information on how macOS is updated. a- What are the component parts (and who supplies them to the consumer)?
b- What is the (typical) frequency of update of those component parts?
c- For what period of time are those component parts (typically) updated?
d- How does the consumer obtain those component parts (pull or push)?

*Is there any one here who isn't completely ignorant about macOS updates*?

I will help you, Paul.

Please ask one specific question and I will try to provide the answer.

--
Kind regards,
David
My pal 'philo' considers 'nospam' to be a troll/implant. I don't trust
him either! ;-)


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 12:34

8 > 3

Your statements prove you are completely ignorant of how Android updates.
You get all your information about Android _only_ from Apple's web site.

About three dozen core Android OS components are updated forever.
*forever is >> 8 years*

The fact is yuou are ignorant that while some components of iOS _are_
updated longer than equivalent components in Android, a huge portion of the core Android OS is updated frequently & forever (where forever in this sense means there is no planned EOL such that the updates outlast the device).
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 03.05.2021 11:39

iOS has a minimum of 5 years of OS upgrades. Miniumum. Which is WAY
longer than Android anything.

yep.

You get _all_ your information about other OSs _only_ from Apple web sites.

The question is asking how macOS is updated (which you didn't answer
likely because you don't know the answer - which is OK - as you clearly
do not know how the other operating systems are actually updated based
on your response - and the ignorant responses from the others to date).

The fact is your comments about the other operating systems appears to indicate you're ignorant of how they're actually updated.

Glaringly it seems you're ignorant of Project Treble & Project Mainline
& you also appear to be wholly ignorant of how key Android apps are updated.

The fact you clearly don't know how Android is updated is further evidence
all your data about Android likely comes _only_ from Apple advertisements.

What does Apple advertising tell you about Project Mainline for example? https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/

These core Android OS components have no known end of support date.
1- adbd com.google.android.adbd (APEX)
2- Android Neural Network API Runtime com.google.android.neuralnetworks (APEX) 3- Captive Portal Login com.google.android.captiveportallogin (APK)
4- Cell Broadcast com.google.android.cellbroadcast (APEX)
5- Conscrypt com.google.android.conscrypt (APEX)
6- DNS Resolver com.google.android.resolv (APEX)
7- Documents UI com.google.android.documentsui (APK)
8- ExtServices (APEX) com.google.android.extservices (APEX)
9- ExtServices (APK) com.google.android.ext.services (APK)
10- IPsec/IKEv2 Library com.google.android.ipsec (APEX)
11- Media Codecs com.google.android.media.swcodec (APEX)
12- Media Framework Components com.google.android.media (APEX)
13- Media Provider com.google.android.mediaprovider (APEX)
14- Module Metadata com.google.android.modulemetadata (APK)
15- Network Stack Components com.google.android.networkstack (APK)
16- Network Stack Permission Configuration com.google.android.networkstack.permissionconfig (APK)
17- Permission Controller (APEX) com.google.android.permission (APEX)
18- Permission Controller (APK) com.google.android.permissioncontroller (APK) 19- SDK Extensions com.google.android.sdkext (APEX)
20- Statsd com.google.android.os.statsd (APEX)
21- Telemetry Train Version Package com.google.mainline.telemetry (APK)
22- Tethering com.google.android.tethering (APEX)
23- Time Zone Data 2 com.google.android.tzdata2 (APEX)
24- Time Zone Data com.google.android.tzdata (APEX)
25- Wi-Fi3 com.google.android.wifi (APEX)

That doesn't even count the key Google apps (akin to Safari & the App Store) whose functional & security updates are pushed to Android phones multiple times a month completely independent of the manufacturer's bloatware
(with no end of support date like Apple has for its equivalent iOS key apps). 26- Android Auto
27- Contacts
28- Files by Google
29- Find My Device
30- Gboard
31- GMail
32- Google
33- Google Assistant
34- Google Calendar
35- Google Chrome
36- Google Docs
37- Google Drive
38- Google Maps
39- Google Play
40- Google Text-to-Speech
41- Messages
42- YouTube
(and a few others which perhaps aren't on all Android phones by default)

The fact you don't know any of this is further evidence _all_ your
data about Android comes _only_ from Apple web page advertisements.

You speak out of ignorance - not of fact.

the iphone 5s, released a year after the 5 (september, 2013), had a
security update just over a month ago and another two months prior, in january, 2021.

You appear to be wholly ignorant of both Project Treble & Project Mainline
(& you appear to be ignorant of how Google updates key apps like Chrome).

You appear to also be ignorant that major Android manufacturers push
(roughly) monthly security updates to many Android phones for 4 years.

Google and Qualcomm Will Provide Support for Four Years of Android Updates https://www.droid-life.com/2020/12/16/google-and-qualcomm-will-provide-four-years-of-android-updates-going-forward/

Since you appear to get _all_ your Android information from the Apple
web site, note those 4 years are exceeded by the two dozen (and counting)
apps directly updated ad infinitum as part of Project Mainline.

Google takes even more control over OS updates with Android 12 https://www.androidauthority.com/project-mainline-art-android-12-1202045/

"Android 12 integrates the Android Runtime (ART) into Project Mainline.
Google can issue ART upgrades to Android 12 devices through Google Play updates.
This is good news for timely bug and security fixes without the long waits associated with full OS updates."

Anyone who claims iOS is updated either longer or shorter than for the other
consumer operating system is just ignorant because for some things iOS is >>> updated longer and for other things it's updated for shorter lifetimes.

Anyone who claims iOS is NOT updated longer than Android is a lying
Android shill.

And yet it's fact not found on the Apple web site that the core OS of
Android is updated in ways you iOS owners couldn't imagine is possible.

But this question isn't about iOS, which intelligent people already
know has components which are updated both longer & shorter than Android.

This question is about macOS.

This exact question was asked of Linux users who gave good responses.
Their responses weren't just repeating garbage found on advertisements.

The question remains of how specifically is the macOS updated:
a- What are the component parts?
b- What is the frequency of update of those component parts?
c- For what period of time are those component parts typically updated?
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

David Brooks wrote on 04.05.2021 09:02

I will help you, Paul.
Please ask one specific question and I will try to provide the answer.

When I asked this _same_ question (exact words!) on the Linux OS newsgroup, everyone pitched in with extremely detailed intelligent helpful information.

I gave them the _same_ examples and they responded with clarity.
In fact the amount of complexity of how the various linux distibutions
are updated is mind boggling in terms of how EASY it must be for Apple
to update macOS.

Even something as simple as Android is mind bogglingly more complicated
than what iOS updates are given Apple controls almost every level of iOS.

It is likely muuuuuuuuch simpler for the macOS updates too (for the same reason that Apple controls everything).

And yet nobody seems to know the answer as far as I have seen so far.

As an example of the type of intelligent answers I'd expect from a macOS newsgroup, here's the answer as to how Android is updated (as the example).

Android is broken down into these components:
(a) The chips (made by the chip makers & assembled by the manufacturers)
(b) Low level firmware for those chips (maintained by the chip makers)
(c) The Vendor Interface (VI insulates everything below from that above)
(d) The Android CoreOS framework (Project Mainline's core Android modules)
(e) The Android Developer API (AndroidStudio codes for compatibility)
(f) The Compatibility Test Suite (CTS works across hardware ecosystems)
(g) Key Google & manufacturer apps (eg Google Pay & Samsung Pay)
(h) Android apps

If we take each of those levels we find they are updated independently:
(a) The manufacturer puts the design together & supports that hardware
https://source.android.com/devices/bootloader/partitions/product-interfaces (b) The low level firmware is becoming more & more updated via Google Play
https://www.androidauthority.com/gpu-driver-updates-phones-1096423/
(c) The vendor interface is updated via Project Treble (eg with Qualcomm)
https://www.androidauthority.com/project-treble-818225/
(d) The core Android framework is updated via Google Play (Project Mainline)
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/
(e) The Android API is updated independently by Google (Android Studio)
https://developer.android.com/reference
(f) All apps must pass the compatibility test suite to be on Google Play
https://source.android.com/compatibility/cts
(g) The key OEM apps are usually updated on Google Play (or Samsung Play)
https://developer.android.com/work/dpc/system-updates
(h) Android apps are updated asynchronously by each developer

As you can see almost everything on Android at the low level is updated constantly (usually patches are monthly) & support often lasts 4 years https://9to5google.com/2020/12/16/android-updates-4-years/

Yet almost everything on Android at the high level is updated many times
a month and there is no planned EOL date (ie support is forever or for the life of the phone, whichever comes first) and these higher level updates
of the core Android OS framework are all available on the Google Play Store.

By way of stark contrast the update for macOS must be vastly simpler than either that of Android or of Linux and yet nobody here can explain it yet.

Can you?
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-04 8:24 a.m., paul wrote:

David Brooks wrote on 04.05.2021 09:02

I will help you, Paul.
Please ask one specific question and I will try to provide the answer.

When I asked this _same_ question (exact words!) on the Linux OS newsgroup, everyone pitched in with extremely detailed intelligent helpful information.

I gave them the _same_ examples and they responded with clarity.
In fact the amount of complexity of how the various linux distibutions
are updated is mind boggling in terms of how EASY it must be for Apple
to update macOS.

Even something as simple as Android is mind bogglingly more complicated
than what iOS updates are given Apple controls almost every level of iOS.

It is likely muuuuuuuuch simpler for the macOS updates too (for the same reason that Apple controls everything).

And yet nobody seems to know the answer as far as I have seen so far.

As an example of the type of intelligent answers I'd expect from a macOS newsgroup, here's the answer as to how Android is updated (as the example).

Android is broken down into these components:
(a) The chips (made by the chip makers & assembled by the manufacturers)
(b) Low level firmware for those chips (maintained by the chip makers)
(c) The Vendor Interface (VI insulates everything below from that above)
(d) The Android CoreOS framework (Project Mainline's core Android modules) (e) The Android Developer API (AndroidStudio codes for compatibility)
(f) The Compatibility Test Suite (CTS works across hardware ecosystems)
(g) Key Google & manufacturer apps (eg Google Pay & Samsung Pay)
(h) Android apps

If we take each of those levels we find they are updated independently:
(a) The manufacturer puts the design together & supports that hardware
https://source.android.com/devices/bootloader/partitions/product-interfaces
(b) The low level firmware is becoming more & more updated via Google Play
https://www.androidauthority.com/gpu-driver-updates-phones-1096423/
(c) The vendor interface is updated via Project Treble (eg with Qualcomm)
https://www.androidauthority.com/project-treble-818225/
(d) The core Android framework is updated via Google Play (Project Mainline)
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/
(e) The Android API is updated independently by Google (Android Studio)
https://developer.android.com/reference
(f) All apps must pass the compatibility test suite to be on Google Play
https://source.android.com/compatibility/cts
(g) The key OEM apps are usually updated on Google Play (or Samsung Play)
https://developer.android.com/work/dpc/system-updates
(h) Android apps are updated asynchronously by each developer

As you can see almost everything on Android at the low level is updated constantly (usually patches are monthly) & support often lasts 4 years https://9to5google.com/2020/12/16/android-updates-4-years/

Yet almost everything on Android at the high level is updated many times
a month and there is no planned EOL date (ie support is forever or for the life of the phone, whichever comes first) and these higher level updates
of the core Android OS framework are all available on the Google Play Store.

By way of stark contrast the update for macOS must be vastly simpler than either that of Android or of Linux and yet nobody here can explain it yet.

Can you?

Yes.

Next question.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-04 7:09 a.m., paul wrote:

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 12:34

8 > 3

Your statements prove you are completely ignorant of how Android updates.
You get all your information about Android _only_ from Apple's web site.

About three dozen core Android OS components are updated forever.
*forever is >> 8 years*

So that would be three dozen out of how many thousand?

The fact is yuou are ignorant that while some components of iOS _are_
updated longer than equivalent components in Android, a huge portion of the core Android OS is updated frequently & forever (where forever in this sense means there is no planned EOL such that the updates outlast the device).

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <s6rki4$kfi$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

8 > 3

Your statements prove you are completely ignorant of how Android updates.
You get all your information about Android _only_ from Apple's web site.

nope. i get my info from *many* web sites, including google and various
android specific ones.

you, on the other hand, get your information from your butthole.

About three dozen core Android OS components are updated forever.

nothing is updated forever.

two of my android devices have not received updates in several years.

android is typically supported for 2-3 years, depending on device.

google guarantees 3 years for *their* phones only:

<https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en>
Pixel phones get Android version updates for at least 3 years from
when the device first became available on the Google Store.

samsung *just* announced 4 years for *some* samsung phones.

<https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsung-galaxy-4-year-software-update-po licy-explains/>
Samsung had recently announced that it would offer four years of
software support to most of its Galaxy smartphones and tablets.

a cheap noname android phone might be 1 year of updates, if that much.
some have none.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <s6rktk$qht$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

Glaringly it seems you're ignorant of Project Treble & Project Mainline
& you also appear to be wholly ignorant of how key Android apps are updated.

apparently it's *you* who is wholly ignorant of project treble &
project mainline.



In article <s6rnp6$ar6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

Help me understand Google's Project Treble & Project Mainline please.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

By way of stark contrast the update for macOS must be vastly simpler than either that of Android or of Linux and yet nobody here can explain it yet.

Can you?

It just works. [shrug]

--
Paulie wanna cracker!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 10:09

apparently it's *you* who is wholly ignorant of project treble &
project mainline.

And yet it is you who is ignorant that even Qualcomm GPU updates are now available on Google Play as part of Project Treble's frequent updates.
https://www.androidauthority.com/gpu-driver-updates-phones-1096423/

And it is you who is ignorant of the huge portion of the core Android
framework which is also updated over Google Play as part of Mainline. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.arumcomm.mainlineupdater

The only thing you know about Android is what is on the Apple web site.

The fact is that some things in iOS _are_ updated longer (albeit less frequently) than Android - but the fact also is most are decidedly not.

Most of Android is updated for essentially the life of the device (as there
are no plans to drop support for the Android core framework on Google Play). --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 18:09

nope. i get my info from *many* web sites, including google and various android specific ones.

If that were true you wouldn't be so ignorant of how Android is updated.

you, on the other hand, get your information from your butthole.

And yet intelligent people on this ng will note I listed EXACTLY which 26 Android core Framework components are updated via Project Mainline.

If I get that kind of accuracy out of my butthole it simply means even my butthole is more intelligent than you will ever be.

About three dozen core Android OS components are updated forever.

nothing is updated forever.

You play silly games because you HATE Android is updated longer than iOS.

two of my android devices have not received updates in several years.

Mine receive so many updates I'm getting tired of installing them all.

android is typically supported for 2-3 years, depending on device.

Not only are the core Android OS framework components updated forever
(there is no plan for EOL) but most (if not all) are open sourced.

You HATE iOS support drops sooner than do core Android OS components.
Android forever >> iOS EOL

google guarantees 3 years for *their* phones only:

You HATE iOS support for key apps drops sooner than do Android key apps
Android Chrome support >> iOS Safari support

samsung *just* announced 4 years for *some* samsung phones.

When you say that it proves you're ignorant of what Project Mainline is.

a cheap noname android phone might be 1 year of updates, if that much.
some have none.

Why is it I have had updates from Android 7 to 9 to 10 to 11 and you don't?
And why are my last few years' updates almost monthly and yours aren't?

Methinks you only know about Android what Apple tells you on their web site. --- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <s6s48j$nhv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

And yet it is you who is ignorant that even Qualcomm GPU updates are now available on Google Play as part of Project Treble's frequent updates.

that's for specific hardware, not android.

Most of Android is updated for essentially the life of the device (as there are no plans to drop support for the Android core framework on Google Play).

where 'life of the device' is typically 3 years.

after that, no more updates.

some devices are less.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

In article <s6s54i$14uc$1@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

You play silly games because you HATE Android is updated longer than iOS.

it isn't.

ios is updated for 2-3 times as long as android.

yesterday, apple released an update for the iphone 5s, which was
released nearly 8 years ago.

the nexus 5 was released about the same time as the iphone 5s (a month
later), but it hasn't received updates in several years.

once again, you are wrong.

android is typically supported for 2-3 years, depending on device.

Not only are the core Android OS framework components updated forever

no they're not.

(there is no plan for EOL)

yes there is.

google says 3 years. samsung says 4 years.

many devices are 1-2 years.

but most (if not all) are open sourced.

nope on that too.

a relatively small amount of android is open source.

You HATE iOS support drops sooner than do core Android OS components.

it doesn't.

Android forever >> iOS EOL

nothing is forever.

other than your ignorant trolling, that is.

Methinks you only know about Android what Apple tells you on their web site.

youthinks wrong.

apple doesn't say anything about android on their web site.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 22:32

You play silly games because you HATE Android is updated longer than iOS.

it isn't.

You only know about Android what Apple tells you on the Apple web site.

ios is updated for 2-3 times as long as android.

And yet the core OS components of Android are not only updated forever
but they're also made open source as a matter of policy by Google.
*Android forever >> iOS EOL*

yesterday, apple released an update for the iphone 5s, which was
released nearly 8 years ago.

Core Apple apps (like Safari) are EOL'd far sooner than Google's core apps.
*Android Chrome support is forever >> iOS Safari support EOL*

the nexus 5 was released about the same time as the iphone 5s (a month later), but it hasn't received updates in several years.

I am getting so many monthly updates on my Android phone it's tiresome.

once again, you are wrong.

Once again the only thing you know about Android is what Apple tells you.

android is typically supported for 2-3 years, depending on device.

Not only are the core Android OS framework components updated forever

no they're not.

Not only are the core Android OS Framework components updated with no EOL
but they're also open sourced by Google as a matter of policy.

You HATE iOS has no long term support like that and never will have it.

(there is no plan for EOL)

yes there is.

Not only is there no plan for EOL but _all_ the components are open sourced!

google says 3 years. samsung says 4 years.

many devices are 1-2 years.

You HATE that Google Android core OS framework components are updated more frequently and for far longer than iOS core OS framework components.

but most (if not all) are open sourced.

nope on that too.
a relatively small amount of android is open source.

Which of the project mainstream core OS components are _NOT_ open source?
You don't know the answer because you only know what Apple tells you.

You HATE iOS support drops sooner than do core Android OS components.

it doesn't.

When is the last iOS Safari update versus the last Android Chrome update?

Android forever >> iOS EOL

nothing is forever.

You HATE that there is no EOL planned for the core Android OS components!
Call it whatever you want but not only do they NOT plan on EOL for the core Android OS components but they're also open sourced as a matter of policy.

You HATE that Android support like that goes on forever & iOS just stops.

apple doesn't say anything about android on their web site.

You make me laugh because _that's_ why you're completely Android ignorant.

You only know what Apple tells you.

You know nothing that isn't on the Apple web site.

While _some_ parts of iOS are updated longer than some parts of Android, the core OS components and the key apps on Android are updated far longer than anything on iOS ever was and ever will be.

You hate Android core OS support time far exceeds that of iOS core support.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

You HATE

Hi, Paul.

--
Paulie wanna cracker!
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-04 1:15 p.m., paul wrote:

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 22:32

You play silly games because you HATE Android is updated longer than iOS. >> it isn't.

You only know about Android what Apple tells you on the Apple web site.

ios is updated for 2-3 times as long as android.

And yet the core OS components of Android are not only updated forever
but they're also made open source as a matter of policy by Google.
*Android forever >> iOS EOL*

Which doesn't matter if there is no mechanism to get them onto your
older Android phone...
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-04 11:52 a.m., paul wrote:

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 18:09

nope. i get my info from *many* web sites, including google and various
android specific ones.

If that were true you wouldn't be so ignorant of how Android is updated.

Something you haven't actually explained.

You've made claims about how long it's updated (unsupported by any
sources as always)..

...but no explanations of how it actually happens.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 04/05/2021 16:24, paul wrote:

David Brooks wrote on 04.05.2021 09:02

I will help you, Paul.
Please ask one specific question and I will try to provide the answer.

When I asked this _same_ question (exact words!) on the Linux OS newsgroup, everyone pitched in with extremely detailed intelligent helpful information.

I gave them the _same_ examples and they responded with clarity.
In fact the amount of complexity of how the various linux distibutions
are updated is mind boggling in terms of how EASY it must be for Apple
to update macOS.

Even something as simple as Android is mind bogglingly more complicated
than what iOS updates are given Apple controls almost every level of iOS.

It is likely muuuuuuuuch simpler for the macOS updates too (for the same reason that Apple controls everything).

And yet nobody seems to know the answer as far as I have seen so far.

As an example of the type of intelligent answers I'd expect from a macOS newsgroup, here's the answer as to how Android is updated (as the example).

Android is broken down into these components:
(a) The chips (made by the chip makers & assembled by the manufacturers)
(b) Low level firmware for those chips (maintained by the chip makers)
(c) The Vendor Interface (VI insulates everything below from that above)
(d) The Android CoreOS framework (Project Mainline's core Android modules) (e) The Android Developer API (AndroidStudio codes for compatibility)
(f) The Compatibility Test Suite (CTS works across hardware ecosystems)
(g) Key Google & manufacturer apps (eg Google Pay & Samsung Pay)
(h) Android apps

If we take each of those levels we find they are updated independently:
(a) The manufacturer puts the design together & supports that hardware
https://source.android.com/devices/bootloader/partitions/product-interfaces
(b) The low level firmware is becoming more & more updated via Google Play
https://www.androidauthority.com/gpu-driver-updates-phones-1096423/
(c) The vendor interface is updated via Project Treble (eg with Qualcomm)
https://www.androidauthority.com/project-treble-818225/
(d) The core Android framework is updated via Google Play (Project Mainline)
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/
(e) The Android API is updated independently by Google (Android Studio)
https://developer.android.com/reference
(f) All apps must pass the compatibility test suite to be on Google Play
https://source.android.com/compatibility/cts
(g) The key OEM apps are usually updated on Google Play (or Samsung Play)
https://developer.android.com/work/dpc/system-updates
(h) Android apps are updated asynchronously by each developer

As you can see almost everything on Android at the low level is updated constantly (usually patches are monthly) & support often lasts 4 years https://9to5google.com/2020/12/16/android-updates-4-years/

Yet almost everything on Android at the high level is updated many times
a month and there is no planned EOL date (ie support is forever or for the life of the phone, whichever comes first) and these higher level updates
of the core Android OS framework are all available on the Google Play Store.

By way of stark contrast the update for macOS must be vastly simpler than either that of Android or of Linux and yet nobody here can explain it yet.

Can you?

I can point you here:- https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201541

HTH

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

David Brooks wrote on 05.05.2021 00:49

I can point you here:- https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201541

The problem is the only thing you Apple users know is only what Apple tells
you so you're completely clueless of how modern operating systems update.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 21:32

where 'life of the device' is typically 3 years.

Given you are wholly clueless that Apple ends support for most of iOS well before Google does for most of Android let's take just a single component.

When does iOS Safari support end?
When does Android Chrome support end?
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-04 7:06 p.m., paul wrote:

David Brooks wrote on 05.05.2021 00:49

I can point you here:- https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201541

The problem is the only thing you Apple users know is only what Apple tells you so you're completely clueless of how modern operating systems update.

And how is it you know anything about how Android is updated...

...other than by what Google tells you?
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2021-05-04 7:10 p.m., paul wrote:

nospam wrote on 04.05.2021 21:32

where 'life of the device' is typically 3 years.

Given you are wholly clueless that Apple ends support for most of iOS well before Google does for most of Android let's take just a single component.

When does iOS Safari support end?

We don't know yet.

It hasn't ended.

When does Android Chrome support end?

'Template:Google Chrome release compatibility

Android 5.0 and later 90 2014-'

In case you're ignorant of it...

(And of course you are)

...Android was first released in 2008.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 05/05/2021 03:06, paul wrote:

David Brooks wrote on 05.05.2021 00:49

I can point you here:- https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201541

The problem is the only thing you Apple users know is only what Apple tells you so you're completely clueless of how modern operating systems update.

That is not so!

Have you read here? https://objective-see.com/blog/blog_0x64.html


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 05 May 2021 at 03:06:48 BST, paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

David Brooks wrote on 05.05.2021 00:49

I can point you here:- https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201541

The problem is the only thing you Apple users know is only what Apple tells you so you're completely clueless of how modern operating systems update.

Not sure I give a monkey's, frankly. I tell it to do the update, and it does so. And afterwards, the same apps that were running before are restarted.

Anything else I need to know? No, I didn't think so.

--
Tim


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113