Will the presence of the older Airport card (11mbps) affect the
speed of my iMac and Airport Extreme (54mbps)?
Earle Jones <earle.jones@comcast.net> writes:
Will the presence of the older Airport card (11mbps) affect the
speed of my iMac and Airport Extreme (54mbps)?
Well, both 11Mb/s (802.11b) and and 54Mb/s (11g) use the 2.4GHz
frequency range (as do many cordless phones), so there may be some
radio interface that will slow things down.
Other than that, make sure that the network name (i.e., SSID) is
different for the slow and fast networks. If both types of devices are
on the same network than the 11g devices will slow down so that the
11b ones can talk with them.
It's not clear that the OP is going to have two base stations. It
sounds like he is asking if he can have a mix of 802.11 b and 802.11g clients on one network and if the presence of the slower client will adversely affect the faster one. If I'm correct, the answer is "yes"
but not to the extent of pulling the 54 Mb/sec transfers down to 11
Mb/sec.
Earle Jones <earle.jones@comcast.net> writes:[...]
Will the presence of the older Airport card (11mbps) affect the
speed of my iMac and Airport Extreme (54mbps)?
Other than that, make sure that the network name (i.e., SSID) is
different for the slow and fast networks. If both types of devices are
on the same network than the 11g devices will slow down so that the
11b ones can talk with them.
In article <m2k69z7wi6.fsf@gandalf.local>,
David Magda <dmagda+trace050401@ee.ryerson.ca> wrote:
Earle Jones <earle.jones@comcast.net> writes:
Will the presence of the older Airport card (11mbps) affect the
speed of my iMac and Airport Extreme (54mbps)?
Well, both 11Mb/s (802.11b) and and 54Mb/s (11g) use the 2.4GHz
frequency range (as do many cordless phones), so there may be some
radio interface that will slow things down.
Other than that, make sure that the network name (i.e., SSID) is
different for the slow and fast networks. If both types of devices are
on the same network than the 11g devices will slow down so that the
11b ones can talk with them.
It's not clear that the OP is going to have two base stations. It
sounds like he is asking if he can have a mix of 802.11 b and 802.11g clients on one network and if the presence of the slower client will adversely affect the faster one. If I'm correct, the answer is "yes"
but not to the extent of pulling the 54 Mb/sec transfers down to 11
Mb/sec
Tom Stiller wrote:
It's not clear that the OP is going to have two base stations. It
sounds like he is asking if he can have a mix of 802.11 b and 802.11g clients on one network and if the presence of the slower client will adversely affect the faster one. If I'm correct, the answer is "yes"
but not to the extent of pulling the 54 Mb/sec transfers down to 11 Mb/sec.
I'm quite certain that you are correct.
Here's what I don't know: I have a similar situation -- six Macs and a
PeeCee on the AirPort Extreme network. All are 802.11g except one of
the Macs, an older PowerBook with an 802.11b card hanging off the side.
Does the network slow down /only/ when the 802.11b card is active, i.e,
does it automatically return to its maximum possible speed when that
card is taken out of the loop because the older Mac is put to sleep or
turned off? Or is it necessary to take some action -- restart the
AirPort Extreme Base Station, e.g. -- to get back to full speed?
Tom Stiller wrote:
It's not clear that the OP is going to have two base stations. It
sounds like he is asking if he can have a mix of 802.11 b and 802.11g clients on one network and if the presence of the slower client will adversely affect the faster one. If I'm correct, the answer is "yes"
but not to the extent of pulling the 54 Mb/sec transfers down to 11 Mb/sec.
I'm quite certain that you are correct.
Here's what I don't know: I have a similar situation -- six Macs and a
PeeCee on the AirPort Extreme network. All are 802.11g except one of
the Macs, an older PowerBook with an 802.11b card hanging off the side.
Does the network slow down /only/ when the 802.11b card is active, i.e,
does it automatically return to its maximum possible speed when that
card is taken out of the loop because the older Mac is put to sleep or
turned off? Or is it necessary to take some action -- restart the
AirPort Extreme Base Station, e.g. -- to get back to full speed?
In article <080420062235037445%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net>
wrote:
Tom Stiller wrote:
It's not clear that the OP is going to have two base stations. It sounds like he is asking if he can have a mix of 802.11 b and 802.11g clients on one network and if the presence of the slower client will adversely affect the faster one. If I'm correct, the answer is "yes" but not to the extent of pulling the 54 Mb/sec transfers down to 11 Mb/sec.
I'm quite certain that you are correct.
Here's what I don't know: I have a similar situation -- six Macs and a PeeCee on the AirPort Extreme network. All are 802.11g except one of
the Macs, an older PowerBook with an 802.11b card hanging off the side.
Does the network slow down /only/ when the 802.11b card is active, i.e, does it automatically return to its maximum possible speed when that
card is taken out of the loop because the older Mac is put to sleep or turned off? Or is it necessary to take some action -- restart the
AirPort Extreme Base Station, e.g. -- to get back to full speed?
No, the network is slowed down because the base station is operating in
b/g mode. The addition of an 802.11b client slows it down even more.
See <http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/whitepapers/maximizing_80211g_invest ment.pdf> for a fuller explanation.
In article <tomstiller-A2B36E.22591308042006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Tom Stiller <tomstiller@comcast.net> wrote:
No, the network is slowed down because the base station is operating in b/g mode. The addition of an 802.11b client slows it down even more.
See <http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/whitepapers/maximizing_80211g_invest ment.pdf> for a fuller explanation.
That conflicts with Apple's more recent claims and my experience with my
own network. Your information is dated 2003 btw.
<http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Designing_AirPort_Networks_v4.2.pdf>
Here's what I don't know...
Does the network slow down /only/ when the 802.11b card is active, i.e, does it automatically return to its maximum possible speed when that
card is taken out of the loop because the older Mac is put to sleep or turned off? Or is it necessary to take some action -- restart the
AirPort Extreme Base Station, e.g. -- to get back to full speed?
No, the network is slowed down because the base station is operating in
b/g mode. The addition of an 802.11b client slows it down even more.
See <http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/whitepapers/maximizing_80211g_invest ment.pdf> for a fuller explanation.
In article <invalid-1630F5.22360308042006@news-50.dca.giganews.com>,
Madwen <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:
In article <tomstiller-A2B36E.22591308042006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Tom Stiller <tomstiller@comcast.net> wrote:
No, the network is slowed down because the base station is operating in b/g mode. The addition of an 802.11b client slows it down even more. See <http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/whitepapers/maximizing_80211g_invest ment.pdf> for a fuller explanation.
That conflicts with Apple's more recent claims and my experience with my own network. Your information is dated 2003 btw.
<http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Designing_AirPort_Networks_v4.2.pdf>
apple's document doesn't conflict with proxim's
... - it just says that the clients run at 'its highest speed'
without ever saying what speed that actually is.
...if the base station is in b/g mode, it needs to listen for both
types of packets, and the 'highest speed' is going to be lower than
if it was listening for only 802.11g.
more documentation at:--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
<http://www.atheros.com/pt/atheros_range_whitepaper.pdf>
table 1-1 shows that g-only mode has a maximum throughput of a little
more than half versus b/g hybrid. it goes on to explain exactly why
there is a substantial speed hit.
In article <080420062114398137%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article
<invalid-1630F5.22360308042006@news-50.dca.giganews.com>, Madwen <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:
In article
<tomstiller-A2B36E.22591308042006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Tom Stiller <tomstiller@comcast.net> wrote:
No, the network is slowed down because the base station is
operating in b/g mode. The addition of an 802.11b client slows
it down even more. See <http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/whitepapers/maximizing_8021 1g_inves t ment.pdf> for a fuller explanation.
That conflicts with Apple's more recent claims and my experience
with my own network. Your information is dated 2003 btw.
<http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Designing_AirPort_Networks_v4.2.
apple's document doesn't conflict with proxim's
But what Tom said does conflict with Apple's latest manual on
designing Airport Extreme networks:
"Choosing the Network Mode Choose 802.11b/g Compatible from the Mode
pop-up menu if computers with 802.11g or 802.11b wireless cards or
will join the network. Each client computer will transmit at its
highest speed. Choose 802.11g Only if only computers with 802.11g
wireless cards will join the network. The transmission rate of the
network will be at 802.11g speed, up to 54 megabits per second.
Computers with 802.11b wireless cards will not be able to join this
network. Choose 802.11b Only if computers with 802.11b wireless
cards will join the network. The transmission rate of the network
will be at 802.11b speed, up to 11 megabits per second. Computers
with 802.11g cards will be able to join this network, but will join
at 802.11b speed."
... - it just says that the clients run at 'its highest speed'
without ever saying what speed that actually is.
The meaning of "highest" is pretty clear. Are you saying that Apple
is engaging in misrepresentation?
...if the base station is in b/g mode, it needs to listen for both
types of packets, and the 'highest speed' is going to be lower than
if it was listening for only 802.11g.
Your argument, FWIW, is with Apple, not me.
more documentation at:
<http://www.atheros.com/pt/atheros_range_whitepaper.pdf>
table 1-1 shows that g-only mode has a maximum throughput of a
little more than half versus b/g hybrid. it goes on to explain
exactly why there is a substantial speed hit.
In article <invalid-93DEF9.00154409042006@news-50.dca.giganews.com>,
Madwen <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:
In article <080420062114398137%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article
<invalid-1630F5.22360308042006@news-50.dca.giganews.com>, Madwen <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:
In article <tomstiller-A2B36E.22591308042006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Tom Stiller <tomstiller@comcast.net> wrote:
No, the network is slowed down because the base station is
operating in b/g mode. The addition of an 802.11b client slows
it down even more. See <http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/whitepapers/maximizing_8021 1g_inves t ment.pdf> for a fuller explanation.
That conflicts with Apple's more recent claims and my experience
with my own network. Your information is dated 2003 btw.
<http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Designing_AirPort_Networks_v4.2.
apple's document doesn't conflict with proxim's
But what Tom said does conflict with Apple's latest manual on
designing Airport Extreme networks:
"Choosing the Network Mode Choose 802.11b/g Compatible from the Mode pop-up menu if computers with 802.11g or 802.11b wireless cards or
will join the network. Each client computer will transmit at its
highest speed. Choose 802.11g Only if only computers with 802.11g wireless cards will join the network. The transmission rate of the network will be at 802.11g speed, up to 54 megabits per second. Computers with 802.11b wireless cards will not be able to join this network. Choose 802.11b Only if computers with 802.11b wireless
cards will join the network. The transmission rate of the network
will be at 802.11b speed, up to 11 megabits per second. Computers
with 802.11g cards will be able to join this network, but will join
at 802.11b speed."
... - it just says that the clients run at 'its highest speed'
without ever saying what speed that actually is.
The meaning of "highest" is pretty clear. Are you saying that Apple
is engaging in misrepresentation?
First, I don't think there has been any major change on the 802.11 a/g protocols sinc 2003.
Second, note the use of the phrase "up to 54 megabits per second" in
Apple's document. They could have said "up to 100 megabits per second"
and still be (technically) correct. 54 Mb/s is the burst rate for
802.11g and does not account for any transmission delays or protocol overhead.
Third, stop and think a bit. In order to communicate using both a fast
and faster protocol, the base station...
...must "switch gears" periodically
to pass traffic to each group (b/g). A single radio can't hear "g mode" traffic while communicating in "b mode" and vice versa.
...if the base station is in b/g mode, it needs to listen for both
types of packets, and the 'highest speed' is going to be lower than
if it was listening for only 802.11g.
Your argument, FWIW, is with Apple, not me.
I don't have an argument with anyone, the facts speak for themselves.
Your _interpretation_ may vary.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113more documentation at:
<http://www.atheros.com/pt/atheros_range_whitepaper.pdf>
table 1-1 shows that g-only mode has a maximum throughput of a
little more than half versus b/g hybrid. it goes on to explain
exactly why there is a substantial speed hit.
There's nothing wrong with my "interpretation". The Apple manual
*clearly* says that in 802.11b/g mode, each client computer will
transmit at its highest speed. "Highest speed" clearly means the
maximum transmission speed of which the computer is capable. Reading it
any other way requires a great deal of equivocation. What I don't understand is why you would wish to equivocate. If Apple is wrong or trying to mislead Airport users, then you should say so instead of
trying to blame it on my "interpretation".
Look again. The "up to" language was in reference to 802.11g
networks--- not 802.11b/g networks. You're attempting to switch
gears here and I don't understand why. The document says, "Each
client computer will transmit at its highest speed." Once again, the meaning of "highest" is very clear.
There's nothing wrong with my "interpretation". The Apple manual
*clearly* says that in 802.11b/g mode, each client computer will
transmit at its highest speed. "Highest speed" clearly means the
maximum transmission speed of which the computer is capable.
In article <invalid-952BB5.09373409042006@news-50.dca.giganews.com>,
Madwen <invalid@nospam.com> wrote:
There's nothing wrong with my "interpretation". The Apple manual *clearly* says that in 802.11b/g mode, each client computer will
transmit at its highest speed. "Highest speed" clearly means the
maximum transmission speed of which the computer is capable. Reading it any other way requires a great deal of equivocation. What I don't understand is why you would wish to equivocate. If Apple is wrong or trying to mislead Airport users, then you should say so instead of
trying to blame it on my "interpretation".
Yes, it will transmit at its highest speed, but for how long and under
what conditions? You seem to think that any radio can transmit at any time...
......and achieve full data throughput without regard for any other
clients on the same network. In reality, substantial negotiation occurs
to insure that transmissions from multiple clients do not collide and
that a given client does not "hog" the available bandwidth. The net
result is that individual packets are transmitted at the "highest speed"
but overall net throughput is substantially less.
I don't think Apple is wrong or being deliberately misleading....
...., nor do I think they intended to offer a complete description of
the 802.11 communication protocols in their discussion of how to set
up an AirPort wireless network.
As to your interpretation, I think it's incredibly naive to think that
any useful data transmission scheme can sustain a data rate equal to the
raw bandwidth of the channel.
Whether you agree or not, the facts have been presented and the readers
can judge for themselves how the mixing of 802.11 a/g traffic on a
network will affect the overall capacity of the network.
I'm finished with this discussion.
In article <080420062235037445%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net>
wrote:
Tom Stiller wrote:
It's not clear that the OP is going to have two base stations. It sounds like he is asking if he can have a mix of 802.11 b and 802.11g clients on one network and if the presence of the slower client will adversely affect the faster one. If I'm correct, the answer is "yes" but not to the extent of pulling the 54 Mb/sec transfers down to 11 Mb/sec.
I'm quite certain that you are correct.
Here's what I don't know: I have a similar situation -- six Macs and a PeeCee on the AirPort Extreme network. All are 802.11g except one of
the Macs, an older PowerBook with an 802.11b card hanging off the side.
Does the network slow down /only/ when the 802.11b card is active, i.e, does it automatically return to its maximum possible speed when that
card is taken out of the loop because the older Mac is put to sleep or turned off? Or is it necessary to take some action -- restart the
AirPort Extreme Base Station, e.g. -- to get back to full speed?
Set the Mode at 802.11b/g and each computer will transmit at its maximum speed. No restart is needed because the slower client does not slow the others down if you have the Mode set correctly.
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