From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

...and all of them are raving about the performance of Apple's latest:
the M1.

'The fan is the most notable difference between Apple’s two new laptops based on its own custom M1 chip:'

<https://www.theverge.com/21570497/apple-macbook-pro-2020-m1-review>

'As with that transition, the move toward Apple silicon has been years
in the making.'

<https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/17/macbook-air-m1-review-the-right-apple-silicon-mac-for-most/>

'When Apple said it would start producing Macs with its own
system-on-chip processors, custom CPU and GPU silicon (and a bunch of
other stuff) to replace parts from Intel and AMD, we figured it would be
good. I never expected it would be this good.'

<https://www.macworld.com/article/3596603/macbook-air-m1-review-an-absolutely-stunning-debut-for-apple-silicon-in-a-mac.html>

'The new ARM core has been the subject of a great deal of speculation
since Apple announced it would move away from Intel CPUs and towards its
own designs.'

<https://www.extremetech.com/computing/317438-the-new-apple-m1-reviews-put-amd-intel-officially-on-notice>

'Quibbling about massively parallel workloads—which the M1 wasn't
designed for—aside, Apple has clearly broken the ice on high-performance
ARM desktop and laptop designs. '

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/hands-on-with-the-apple-m1-a-seriously-fast-x86-competitor/>

'The MacBook Air's performance has always remained secondary to its
price and size, but that paradigm has shifted with the introduction of Apple’s own M1 processor. '

<https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-air-m1-late-2020>
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Alan Baker wrote:

...and all of them are raving about the performance of Apple's latest:
the M1.

'The fan is the most notable difference between Apple’s two new laptops based on its own custom M1 chip:'

I've had a Huawei Matebook X for a couple of years

<https://laptopmedia.com/series/huawei-matebook-x>

I'd say it's a shameless macbook air clone, solid aluminium with no fan
(mine is an i5 but i7 models are available) so I assumed apple were
already fanless.

Lets face it, Apple have moved Macs from Motorola->powerPC->x86, and
have had iOS devices on ARM for nearly 20 years, I'd expect them to get
the CPU migration right.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 06:53:34 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Lets face it, Apple have moved Macs from Motorola->powerPC->x86, and
have had iOS devices on ARM for nearly 20 years, I'd expect them to get
the CPU migration right.

Hi Andy Burns,

Each thread below is chock full of facts the apologists literally hate.
o The TSMC-Silicon Mac technology Apple licensed from ARM is hype.

For example, notice how _limited_ these TSMC Silicon Macs prove to be?
o The new TSMC Silicon powered MacBook Pro can't even use a eGPU <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/_jHTerfLHF8>

These TSMC Silicon designs licensed from ARM by Apple are limited:
o The new ARM technology TSMC Silicon powered MacBook Pro maxes out at 16GB of RAM & the M1 supports only 2 USB ports
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/5QbTpwJFT-0>

Most people realize Apple is almost all MARKETING & almost no R&D spend:
o Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D than anyone else in tech? <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/STrAkx09VYk>

Hence, there's a reason that iPhone CPUs almost all need to be throttled:
o Apple admits to the crime of secretly & purposefully throttling iPhones <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/l6gAjvW6aqQ>

Such that almost every major chip designed by Apple is permanently flawed:
o Which Apple CPUs, bootroms, & SEP secure enclave coprocessors do NOT already have well-known unpatchable fatal design flaws?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6WKS9KpSyJA>

And worse, Apple has _never_ made a best-in-class major chip, ever (AFAIK):
o Did Apple (yet again) fail in chip design (just like they did with modems) this time with graphics chips?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/Bz7wouZhKcU>

Note: Every thread above contains cites that Aplogists _hate_ but which
they can only deny by not even bothering to _read_ the cites.

Why do these apologists always deny even well published facts?
o I don't know why.

I suspect they actually _believe_ in what MARKETING bullshit Apple fed them
o Where they then can't reconcile actual facts which don't fit into hype

There's a reason that Apple is all MARKETING and the lowest R&D percentage spend in the entire high tech industry (nobody can find anyone lower than
Apple in R&D percentage spend)...
--
Steve Jobs was proud of their high MARKETING over their dismally low R&D
o And Apple has the ungodly profits to prove why.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2020-11-18 2:17 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 06:53:34 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Lets face it, Apple have moved Macs from Motorola->powerPC->x86, and
have had iOS devices on ARM for nearly 20 years, I'd expect them to get
the CPU migration right.

Hi Andy Burns,

Each thread below is chock full of facts the apologists literally hate.
o The TSMC-Silicon Mac technology Apple licensed from ARM is hype.

For example, notice how _limited_ these TSMC Silicon Macs prove to be?
o The new TSMC Silicon powered MacBook Pro can't even use a eGPU <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/_jHTerfLHF8>

These TSMC Silicon designs licensed from ARM by Apple are limited:
o The new ARM technology TSMC Silicon powered MacBook Pro maxes out at 16GB of RAM & the M1 supports only 2 USB ports
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/5QbTpwJFT-0>

And Arlen's delusions continue.

Apple doesn't license designs from ARM.

Most people realize Apple is almost all MARKETING & almost no R&D spend:
o Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D than anyone else in tech? <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/STrAkx09VYk>

That's simply a lie by omission. They may spend less as a percentage of revenue...

...but they make so much more revenue.

Such that almost every major chip designed by Apple is permanently flawed:

But you just said that Apple doesn't design chips.

o Which Apple CPUs, bootroms, & SEP secure enclave coprocessors do NOT already have well-known unpatchable fatal design flaws?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6WKS9KpSyJA>

And worse, Apple has _never_ made a best-in-class major chip, ever (AFAIK):
o Did Apple (yet again) fail in chip design (just like they did with modems) this time with graphics chips?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/Bz7wouZhKcU>

Apple M1.

Note: Every thread above contains cites that Aplogists _hate_ but which
they can only deny by not even bothering to _read_ the cites.

Why do these apologists always deny even well published facts?
o I don't know why.

I suspect they actually _believe_ in what MARKETING bullshit Apple fed them
o Where they then can't reconcile actual facts which don't fit into hype

There's a reason that Apple is all MARKETING and the lowest R&D percentage spend in the entire high tech industry (nobody can find anyone lower than Apple in R&D percentage spend)...

No one has tried, because it's irrelevant.

Apple makes literally billions in revenue, but R&D spending doesn't need
to be proportional to revenue when you're selling millions upon millions
of identical units.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2020-11-18 2:17 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 06:53:34 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Lets face it, Apple have moved Macs from Motorola->powerPC->x86,
and have had iOS devices on ARM for nearly 20 years, I'd expect
them to get the CPU migration right.

Hi Andy Burns,

Each thread below is chock full of facts the apologists literally
hate. o The TSMC-Silicon Mac technology Apple licensed from ARM is
hype.

For those who aren't fundamentally delusional liars:

'The secret sauce lies in Apple's in-house CPU microarchitecture.
Apple's long journey into custom CPU microarchitectures started off with
the release of the Apple A6 back in 2012 in the iPhone 5. Even back then
with their first-generation “Swift” design, the company had marked some impressive performance figures compared to the mobile competition.

The real shocker that really made waves through the industry was however Apple's subsequent release of the Cyclone CPU microarchitecture in
2013's Apple A7 SoC and iPhone 5S. Apple's early adoption of the 64-bit
Armv8 ISA shocked everybody, as the company was the first in the
industry to implement the new instruction set architecture, but they
beat even Arm's own CPU teams by more than a year, as the Cortex-A57
(Arm own 64-bit microarchitecture design) would not see light of day
until late 2014.'

<https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/2>

Any one care to stand up and say that AnandTech doesn't know what
they're talking about?

:-)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Hi Andy Burns,

While Apple "might" pull it off on the TSMC Silicon ARM technology Macs
o Where's the evidence that Apple has _ever_ designed a best-in-class SoC?

The problem is, as I see it, twofold on Apple reputed "design" prowess.
1. MARKETING makes claims that are just pure bullshit
2. Which is fine - but what's worse, Apple owners _believe_ the BS!

You don't find the same infantile gullibility among Android/Windows owners.
o Windows & Android owners basically know exactly what M$ and Google ar

It's only the child-like Apple apologists on these newsgroups
o Who literally self-identify with the image that MARKETING promotes

Even as that image has almost no basic in actual facts
o (Much like how religious fanatics are - sans a single shred of fact.)

Apple has _never_ designed a CPU that could stand tall in the real world.
o Nor a modem (although they farmed that out; nor a GPU (they failed).

Nor an iOS release, which was proven, beyond doubt, was _never_ tested
o Google Project Zero claimed the sophomoric iOS code didn't even _work_

Nor even something as trivially simple as a basic web browser
o Safari was proven full of holes that Apple never even once tested (ever!)

FACT:
The vast majority of iPhone CPUs get throttled software after about a year.
o What good is a CPU design that _must_ be cut in half speed in a year?

Only after Apple was caught red handed, do they now give you the "choice":
The user is faced with the unacceptable choice of:
a. You must choose unacceptable performance
b. You must choose unacceptable stability
*You must pick one!*

Apple claims you have a third unacceptable option due to their poor design
o You can choose the unacceptable option of a premature expensive battery

Every single year.
o Year, after year, after year. (You now have "choices" - all unacceptable)

Apple would want you to believe throttling is only on old iPhones
o And yet, _every_ major iOS release introduces _new_ throttling!

From iOS 10 to iOS 13, like clockwork, Apple throttled most iPhones
o Every iPhone CPU is, one by one, being throttled after about a year <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/Mzh1IvniDr8>

Just this week Apple lost another set of lawsuits on throttling:
o November 18th, 2020 - Lawsuits on Apple's lowering of iPhone life <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/esbnfB6OSmc>

And Apple admitted to the crime they purposefully lowered iPhone life
o Apple publicly admits committing the crime to shorten iPhone life <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/l6gAjvW6aqQ>

Apple settled the lawsuit because the evidence was overwhelming & obvious
o Apple agrees to $500M to settle secret throttling to lower iPhone lifespan <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/jN-h4WvWTEA>

And I didn't even get _started_ on egregious software flaws in Apple OS's
o It's been proven time & again, Apple doesn't ever test OS's sufficiently

o Apple (yet again) failed to find their own iOS 14 actively exploited security holes
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/LYDOl3iy3yQ>

The list goes on and on and on (ad infinitum) of Apple's security holes
o Anyone who wishes to dispute this fact can ask for more detail

I'll be glad to comply as I have been studying Apple owners for decades
o They are gullible to pure MARKETING hype (much like religious fanatics)
--
Note I'm not claiming Microsoft or Google are much better, as they're not;
but what I'm stating is the pure hard facts that Apple is all MARKETING and almost no R&D (and the huge unpatchable holes in their designs prove it).

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2020-11-19 7:09 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:

Hi Andy Burns,

While Apple "might" pull it off on the TSMC Silicon ARM technology Macs
o Where's the evidence that Apple has _ever_ designed a best-in-class SoC?

You mean other than things like this:

'As of October 2020, the best mobile processor is Apple A14 Bionic which
will power the upcoming iPhone 12 Lineup. The second best processor is
A13 Bionic from iPhone 11 series.'

<https://www.techcenturion.com/smartphone-processors-ranking>

Just FYI, the top ten with scores are:

Apple A14 Bionic: 165 (available September 2020)

Apple A13 Bionic: 154 (available September 2019)

Snapdragon 865+: 150 (announced July 2020)

Snapdragon 865: 149 (available March 2020)

Dimensity 1000: 146 (available 2020)

Apple A12 Bionic: 146 (available September 2018)

Dimensity 1000+: 146 (available May 2020)

Snapdragon 855+: 145 (available Q3 2019)

Kirin 990 5G: 144 (available September 2019)

Snapdragon 855: 144 (available March 2019)

So it looks to me like Apple's CPUs are regularly faster than the best non-Apple CPUs a year or even two newer.

:-)
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

...that doesn't rank Apple's chips as the best.


And naturally, you have to ignore the sites that don't even test them.

:-)

On 2020-11-19 7:09 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:

Hi Andy Burns,

While Apple "might" pull it off on the TSMC Silicon ARM technology Macs
o Where's the evidence that Apple has _ever_ designed a best-in-class SoC?

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Apple is...all about... *Much ado about nothing...*

Just so you know, what happened in this thread is two things that _always_ happen in Apple newsgroups (because of the oddities of Apple cultists like
Alan Baker clearly is and Apple apologists like nospam always is).

1. Apple makes what is really a minor technical change (in that designing
with ARM and fab'ing with TSMC Silicon is no big deal whatsoever technically)...

2. And yet the Apple cultists are bowled over... by the sheer MARKETING of
it all. Ooooh... Aaaaah... Apple does what everyone else already does.

Ooooh... Aaaah...

Other than to Intel, and maybe not to even them, this is a non event.
o It's _only_ a huge deal to the Apple cultists who are wowed by bullshit.

There are facts that need to be realized, one of which is that Apple is
almost all MARKETING and the lowest R&D spend in the entire tech industry.

Another fact that needs to be realized is that Apple has _never_ in its
entire history _ever_ made a best-in-class CPU (nobody can find an Apple
design that they tout which _also_ isn't so badly flawed that it must be throttled in a year or that it has huge unpatchable egregious holes).

Don't even get me started on how everyone proved Apple has _never_ in the entire history of the Mac or iOS ever sufficiently tested the OS (Google,
for example, _proved_ beyond doubt, the code couldn't possibly have been
tested for the many (many) many (many) many areas they found lacking. (Such that hackers won't even _accept_ Apple zero-day bugs as they have too many already.)

In summary, Apple choosing ARM over Intel is no big deal technically, nor
is choosing to make TSMC Silicon a big deal; but wow can they make a big
deal out of nothing.

The fact remains Apple has _never_ made a best-in-class CPU; so what makes
the apologists & cultists think this will be any different?

Much ado about nothing...
--
o Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D than _anyone_ in tech? companies?<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/STrAkx09VYk>

o Which Apple CPUs, bootroms, & SEP secure enclave coprocessors do NOT
already have well-known unpatchable fatal design flaws? <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6WKS9KpSyJA>

o Did Apple (yet again) fail in chip design (just like they did with
modems) this time with graphics chips? <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.system/c/Bz7wouZhKcU>

o Why zero day Android exploits cost far more than zero day iOS exploits <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/9koS-SuRqgw>

o Google proved Apple couldn't possibly have tested their code for even
basic security/privacy for over two years <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/gM5ioMg9m8w/m/7U2rz7emAwAJ>

o Every Apple CPU gets performance throttling software added after about a
year <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/MowwVxafiaQ/m/SQt5aHKXCQAJ>

And the list goes on and on and on and on...
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