Nick Andre wrote to Aaron Thomas <=-

On 26 Aug 20 09:29, Aaron Thomas said the following to Nick Andre:

In related news: Last night I wanted to watch the RNC convention, and I

don

have cable. The only broadcast channel that offered to show it was PBS. So tuned to PBS, and they showed bits and pieces of the convention with anti-Trump commentary breaks every 2 minutes. There was really no way to

wa

Remember in the 80's and early 90's when CNN was actually somewhat
decent? No opinions, no nonsense. I heard that Ted Turner is even
pissed how his creation turned out today. And remember how the major
news channels used to thumb their noses at tabloid shows like Hard Copy and Current Affair? PBS was actually not that bad? And even TLC
actually had some redeeming social enlightenment value before Here
Comes Honey Boo-boo?

I like to pinpoint the OJ trial as the first real noticable shift from serious reporting to tabloid/gonzo journalism going mainstream and the rise of opinion shows and "expert panels" and blahblahblah feedback discussions.

Clinton's blowjob scandals were the icing on the cake... uhh, so to
speak.

Nick

I think you are right here. People usually blame the Internet for the decline in mainstream news, and the need to compete with blogs and such. But I don't buy this. The reason is I don't think they are trying to be respectable and decent. For example, I read an article on news.com.au, which is a major Australian online news site, about the RNC convention, and it was pure editorialising. The writer was blithely assuming that all the readers would have the exact same reaction. There are manufactured stories based on a few tweets. This is fake news, making a story out of nothing. So many clickbait or just false headlines. Partisan positions, moralising and paternalistic attitudes.

Now this always happened to a degree, but standards really slipped. I do remember when news was more objective. Now, they clearly have a particular "voice", which speaks for a very particular segment of society. And these changes were happening 20 years ago.

... Dennis Katsonis
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

On 27 Aug 20 11:03:00, Dennis Katsonis said the following to Nick Andre:

I think you are right here. People usually blame the Internet for the decl in mainstream news, and the need to compete with blogs and such. But I don buy this. The reason is I don't think they are trying to be respectable an decent. For example, I read an article on news.com.au, which is a major Australian online news site, about the RNC convention, and it was pure editorialising. The writer was blithely assuming that all the readers woul

Oh I've seen the editorialising too, I'm in Canada and not sure if you read my other messages but it is mostly a liberal-leaning slant in all of our media here. But... I'm one to actually agree that the Internet "kinda-sorta" is the problem. Specifically social media. The rise of Twitter has made various news outlets just copy-n-paste from Twitter as its seen as the official voice for whoever it is, whether its a celebrity or President Trump or whoever.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-

On 27 Aug 20 11:03:00, Dennis Katsonis said the following to Nick
Andre:

I think you are right here. People usually blame the Internet for the

decl

in mainstream news, and the need to compete with blogs and such. But I

don

buy this. The reason is I don't think they are trying to be respectable

an

decent. For example, I read an article on news.com.au, which is a major Australian online news site, about the RNC convention, and it was pure editorialising. The writer was blithely assuming that all the readers

woul

Oh I've seen the editorialising too, I'm in Canada and not sure if you read my other messages but it is mostly a liberal-leaning slant in all
of our media here. But... I'm one to actually agree that the Internet "kinda-sorta" is the problem. Specifically social media. The rise of Twitter has made various news outlets just copy-n-paste from Twitter as its seen as the official voice for whoever it is, whether its a
celebrity or President Trump or whoever.

I haven't seen all the thread. I remember at the time the 9/11 attacks happened, shortly afterwards, the media when talking about Afghanistan and Al Quaeda would always include a paragraph about Iraq. Not that it was related, it was just there. They were clearly pushing an agenda.

Social media has definately accelerated things big time, but I think the rot was set in beforehand. I find it hard to believe we would have a great mainstream media, if it weren't for social media. Do they really need to take 4 tweets and manufacture a story? Is it really necessary? Or is it more that journalists now see their job as pushing a social agenda?

I think people going into journalism now, more and more, see their role as pushing social change, pushing an agenda, and you only really make it, if you agree with the groupthink of the MSM.


... Dennis Katsonis
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
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On 08-26-20 08:45, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Nick Andre about Re: First Racist Presiden <=-

Who do you have for your provider (Cable provider)
Is Newsmax TV where you are. - It's quite refreshing not having to
watch liberal hacks.

The news shows that I watch have prominent Republicans participating,
including one who was chairman of the RNC. None of them can stand what
Trump is doing to their party. There are also a number of other
Republicans who have come out in support of Biden, including ex-cabinet officiers.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:08:32, 27 Aug 2020
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

I read through Fox news' stories this mornign kinda fast, so then I read the headlines at cnn.com to see how different they would be. And they were pretty different!

After reading Fox first, I couldn't overlook the fact that CNN isn't saying anything about the violence in Kenosha, except for the (old already) story about the unarmed black man being shot. Nothing about violent "peaceful protesters" in Minneapolis looting and burning stores, nothing about peaceful protesters smashing and burning busineses in Oakland, nothing about the 71 year old business owner getting his jaw broken by "peaceful protesters" in Kenosha, nothing about the 85 year old woman being mugged in Chicago.

The news over at CNN is a lot more peaceful! Maybe that's what liberals like about it. The focus at CNN is on the guy who was shot by police (the black guy - no mention about any other color getting shot by police despite it happening every day.) Instead, a few weak jabs at the RNC convention, and even one story where they take a shot at some paramedics who accidentally pronounced a woman dead when she was still alive.

The evidence that they're painting pictures was easy to see this morning. CNN don't deliver news anymore. Do liberals even watch it? Or do they watch Fox so they can find stuff to complain about? It's ok, I'm guilty of it too.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 27 Aug 2020, Dale Shipp said the following...

The news shows that I watch have prominent Republicans participating, including one who was chairman of the RNC. None of them can stand what Trump is doing to their party. There are also a number of other Republicans who have come out in support of Biden, including ex-cabinet officiers.

Care to share what shows are those that you're watching?
I would say that those alleged Republicans breaking away are self centered and are only are thinking of themselves. If true; they are idiots for doing so because it's still very premature. They don't realize that they will have to answer to the Republican constituents that got them to Washington, D.C., specially when Biden loses.

What are these folks (the alleged Republicans, whom are riden w/biden) suggesting that Trump did, that would of caused them to go to the darkside.

Yes the DNC is very much the darkside, it is place and or it can be a set of ideas that suggest America should be shunned and be apologetic within the
U.S. and around the world. It does not like walls, it would have no police departments, no accountability for crimes. It's true just look at Democratic Cities within Our Nation. Several are a disaster.

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same mistakes from 2016. All they do is complain about the other side, they have not indicated
any agenda or what they would do differently.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
_[]_³³Äij³ ³ Fidonet ³ ³FSX Net³ ³ Trump ³ ³ Another Message ³
{ NET 267 ³ ³1:267/150³ ³21:1/127³ ³ Train ³ ³ by Gregory ³
/ 00ÄÄÄÄ00'-¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00ÄÄ00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄ00Ä00ÄÙ¨€ÀÄÄ00ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ00ÄÄÄÙ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A44 2020/02/04 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Aaron Thomas wrote to All <=-

The news over at CNN is a lot more peaceful! Maybe that's what liberals like about it.

Lefties have a hard time with reality, in general. Especially when reality won't follow their Narrative.

Note that I don't use the term "liberal". The classical liberals are actually pretty nice, smart people and really have more in common with the Republicans today.

The evidence that they're painting pictures was easy to see this
morning. CNN don't deliver news anymore. Do liberals even watch it? Or
do they watch Fox so they can find stuff to complain about? It's ok,
I'm guilty of it too.

Lefties get upset whenever they see someone reporting facts that go counter
to their Narrative. So they most likely watch CNN to get a warm fuzzy. Then they head over to Fox because they also get antsy when they aren't angry at someone/something.


... "Uh honey, a P5 with a 20" monitor is perfect for mail"
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)

Gregory Deyss wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

You're fired, Donald!

You're hate for him, just means, he is doing a Great job.

Lefties hate anyone who are more successful then they are - which is pretty much everyone else because Lefties are pretty much useless people.

Their hate for the people who succeed has been fueled by the miseducation
that they have received all their lives. Leftie "teachers" (really indoctrinators) who are envious of the nice lives that the people who have succeeded live. Those "teachers" believe themselves to be far more intelligent than others, and therefore, more important. So they are envious and mad that others who do things like start successful businesses and
invent products that everyone wants make far more then they do.

... When your IQ hits 21, SELL!!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same mistakes fro 2016. All they do is complain about the other side, they have not indicated any agenda or what they would do differently.

Joe Biden said he would "unite this country," but to me that's vague. He hasn't said -how- he would unite us. And on that sour note, I'm not in favor of being "united" anyway. In a country like this, we've always had division over policies, and the only the Communist Party could change that.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 28 Aug 20 12:52, Aaron Thomas said the following to Gregory Deyss:

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same mistakes fro 2016. All they do is complain about the other side, they have not indicated any agenda or what they would do differently.

Joe Biden said he would "unite this country," but to me that's vague. He hasn't said -how- he would unite us. And on that sour note, I'm not in favo

Didn't Obama say the same thing at election time... twice?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello, Aaron Thomas.
On 8/27/20 9:31 AM you wrote:

The evidence that they're painting pictures was easy to see this
morning. CNN don't deliver news anymore. Do liberals even watch
it? Or do they watch Fox so they can find stuff to complain about?
It's ok, I'm guilty of it too.

The only time I hear about CNN is when conservatives are whining about it. I'm pretty sure you lot are keeping them on the air.


--
Mike
BBS: warensemble.com
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: South of Heaven - warensemble.com (1:154/30.1)

Hello Aaron,

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same
mistakes from 2016. All they do is complain about the other side,
they have not indicated any agenda or what they would do GD>differently.

Joe Biden said he would "unite this country," but to me that's vague. He
hasn't said -how- he would unite us. And on that sour note, I'm not in
favor of being "united" anyway. In a country like this, we've always had division over policies, and the only the Communist Party could change that.

"Only the Communist Party could change that." ~Aaron Thomas

Do realize the Communist Party USA has been around for quite a while.
Gus Hall ran for president several times, as a full-fledged member of
the party. Here is the constitution of the Communist Party USA -

https://www.cpusa.org/party_info/cpusa-constitution/


Joe Biden is a lifelong Democrat. Are you saying, or suggesting,
that Joe Biden should change his party affiliation, becoming the
first full-fledged Communist to be elected POTUS?

--Lee

--
I Take A Sheet In The Pool

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello Nick,

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same mistakes

froGD>2016. All they do is complain about the other side, they have not indicated GD> any agenda or what they would do differently. AT> AT>Joe
Biden said he would "unite this country," but to me that's vague. He AT>hasn't said -how- he would unite us. And on that sour note, I'm not in favo

Didn't Obama say the same thing at election time... twice?

And what an Obamanation it was!

--Lee

--
Hey hey! Ho ho! Donald Trump has got to go!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 08-28-20 09:01, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Republicans & Trump <=-

The news shows that I watch have prominent Republicans participating, including one who was chairman of the RNC. None of them can stand what Trump is doing to their party. There are also a number of other Republicans who have come out in support of Biden, including ex-cabinet officiers.

Care to share what shows are those that you're watching?

CNN, MSMBC, Foxnews, NBC, ABC, CBS.

I would say that those alleged Republicans breaking away are self
centered and are only are thinking of themselves. If true; they are

You are mixed up. It is Trump who only thinks of himself. The people I mentioned are thinking about the American people and America.

idiots for doing so because it's still very premature. They don't
realize that they will have to answer to the Republican constituents
that got them to Washington, D.C., specially when Biden loses.

Why do you think that they were elected to DC? I see a moderate number
of prominent Republican strategists who have supported the campaigns of previous Republicans for President and for other offices. These are the
people who work behind the scenes to help a candidate get elected. They
are honest people, unlike the number of of people involved in the Trump campaign who are now convicted felons or charged with a felony.

A former Republican Secretary of State spoke in support of Biden during
the Democratic convention. The former chairman of the Republican
National Committee is a frequent commentator speaking against Trump.

What are these folks (the alleged Republicans, whom are riden w/biden) suggesting that Trump did, that would of caused them to go to the darkside.

How about more than 20,000 lies in 3 1/2 years. How about frequent
disregard for the law, including during the Republican Convention. A
small sample of reasons can be found by going to the website makeamericagreat.com .

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same
mistakes from 2016. All they do is complain about the other side, they have not indicated any agenda or what they would do differently.

Actually Biden has published much of what he would do. It was the
Republicans who spent much of their convention complaining about the
other side and who did not present any agenda nor platform.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:02:22, 29 Aug 2020
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Note that I don't use the term "liberal". The classical liberals are actua

I relate the term to wasting a liberal amount of tax revenue, or liberating criminals.

Lefties get upset whenever they see someone reporting facts that go counter to their Narrative. So they most likely watch CNN to get a warm fuzzy. T

I noticed that Fox News is not really biased like many people claim. They are not reluctant to report Republican failures or Democrat success stories.

I tune into CNN sometimes just for a wider variety of non-political news stories, but I get a little offended when they inject anti-Trump messages into everything. That's something that conservative news like Fox, OANN, & NY
Post don't do. You don't get a Fox news story saying something like "ISIS advancing in Syria due to lack of action from Obama." (even though that would probably be accurate.)

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Joe Biden said he would "unite this country," but to me that's vague. He hasn't said -how- he would unite us. And on that sour note, I'm not in favo

Didn't Obama say the same thing at election time... twice?

I don't remember him saying that, but probably. The only thing he accomplished in 8 years was 1) bolstered ISIS 2) bolstered North Korea & 3) made
healthcare less affordable.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Joe Biden is a lifelong Democrat. Are you saying, or suggesting,
that Joe Biden should change his party affiliation, becoming the
first full-fledged Communist to be elected POTUS?

Why not? He wants us all to be "united," presumably about policy. Is there a better way to unite us than forcing us at gunpoint?

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Aaron,

Joe Biden is a lifelong Democrat. Are you saying, or suggesting,
that Joe Biden should change his party affiliation, becoming the
first full-fledged Communist to be elected POTUS?

Why not? He wants us all to be "united," presumably about policy. Is there a
better way to unite us than forcing us at gunpoint?

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help.

--Lee

--
It's not for women.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Re: Republicans & Trump
By: Lee Lofaso to Aaron Thomas on Sun Aug 30 2020 05:47 am

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help.

Now that HAS to be a troll.
===
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423 - Calgary, AB (1:342/17)

Hello Kostie,

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help.

Now that HAS to be a troll.

I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment is poorly written,
and also totally understood. Furthermore, after about 1980
the courts misinterpreted it to something else entirely.

The amendment is not about the right to bear arms, but "a
well regulated militia" having "the right of the people to
bear arms". Kind of like those in the militia having the
right to bear arms, as part of that militia. The state
controls the militia. Individuals who are part of the
militia have the right to bear arms while those outside
of the militia do not have the same right.

That is how the courts viewed it, up until about 1980.
Then the courts turned to extreme right-wing interpretations.
Which is why there is so much out of control crime these
days.

--Lee

--
Every bite is a different temperature

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello, Lee Lofaso.
On 8/30/20 9:06 PM you wrote:

Hello Kostie,

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help. Now that HAS to be a

troll.

I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment is poorly written, and also
totally understood. Furthermore, after about 1980 the courts misinterpreted it to something else entirely.

So... Repeal and replace?


--
Mike
BBS: warensemble.com
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: South of Heaven - warensemble.com (1:154/30.1)

Re: Republicans & Trump
By: Lee Lofaso to Kostie Muirhead on Sun Aug 30 2020 09:06 pm

Now that HAS to be a troll.

I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment is poorly written,
and also totally understood. Furthermore, after about 1980
Which is why there is so much out of control crime these
days.

Hoo boy. There's just so much to cover here, that I'll just stick with a basic premise:

Firearms function as a force equalizer - no more and no less.

As such, the solution to present issues is neither to arm everyone, nor to disarm everyone, as neither of those solutions have anything at all to do with the root issues.

Further, there are benefits to allowing civilian armaments, and the level to which a state allows such can be an important barometer of several political realities.

If you can see and accept the above premises we can have a further conversation, but if not we're not likely to be able to have a discussion on the matter that does not end up at lease somewhat emotionally motivated.
===
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423 - Calgary, AB (1:342/17)

Hello Mike,

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help. Now that HAS to be a

troll.

I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment is poorly written, and also
totally understood. Furthermore, after about 1980 the courts LL>misinterpreted it to something else entirely.

So... Repeal and replace?

Why bother to replace once it has been repealed?

--Lee

--
Whose streets? / Our streets!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello Kostie,

Now that HAS to be a troll.

I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment is poorly written,
and also totally understood. Furthermore, after about 1980
Which is why there is so much out of control crime these
days.

Hoo boy. There's just so much to cover here, that I'll just stick with a
basic premise:

Firearms function as a force equalizer - no more and no less.

Which is why the state has a militia. With folks in the militia
having the right to bear arms.

As such, the solution to present issues is neither to arm everyone, nor to
disarm everyone, as neither of those solutions have anything at all to do with the root issues.

Reference is made only to "A well regulated Militia" - not the people
at large, as not all people are in that "well regulated Militia." Do
try to keep up.

Further, there are benefits to allowing civilian armaments, and the level to
which a state allows such can be an important barometer of several
political realities.

That may be. But it is up to each state to decide. Or municipality.

If you can see and accept the above premises we can have a further
conversation, but if not we're not likely to be able to have a discussion
on the matter that does not end up at lease somewhat emotionally motivated. ===

Misinterpreting the 2nd Amendment to make it easier for gun
manufacturers to sell their product is what the issue is all
about.

Limiting who is allowed to buy or own guns limits the
number of guns that can be sold. The more guns sold means
more profit for the gun manufacturers. No matter how many
innocent people get killed by those guns that are sold.

Now convince me all the people in the USA are part of the
"well regulated Militia". Can't do it? Don't feel bad. Nobody
else can, either.

--Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Re: Republicans & Trump
By: Lee Lofaso to Kostie Muirhead on Mon Aug 31 2020 05:51 am

Now that HAS to be a troll.

I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment is poorly written,

Firearms function as a force equalizer - no more and no less.

Which is why the state has a militia. With folks in the militia
having the right to bear arms.

If you can follow and agree to the premise that firearms only function as a force equalizer, what the second amendment does or does not say and what you think it should or should not say is a completely irrelevant discussion.

I live in Canada where restrictive changes HAVE been made, and the data after a couple decades of that experiment show that firearm restrictions have very little to no effect on overall violent crime, homicide, or suicide numbers. Sure, if you remove enough guns you'll reduce the number of people *shot* but that does not equate to reducing the number of people *killed* The latter is a far more important measure in my mind, and requires systemic cultural changes rather than simple band-aid solutions like gun control.

Anyone who's been shown that reality and instead chooses to focus on the guns means an individual either cannot think logically, or has a political agenda to push that benefits from dishonest language. Either way, you should view said individual with extreme caution when approaching the ballot booth.
===
Underminer
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Fidonet: 1:342/17
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423 - Calgary, AB (1:342/17)

Hello Kostie,

Now that HAS to be a troll. LL>> I am being serious. The 2nd Amendment >>>>> is poorly written,

Firearms function as a force equalizer - no more and no less.

Which is why the state has a militia. With folks in the militia
having the right to bear arms.

If you can follow and agree to the premise that firearms only function as a
force equalizer, what the second amendment does or does not say and what
you think it should or should not say is a completely irrelevant
discussion.

Once upon a time, Japan had no guns. Samurai armed with swords,
serving their shogun. Then Japan had guns. Samurai armed with guns,
serving their shogun. Not liking the result, Japan returned to no
guns, samurai serving their shogun. White came to visit shogun.
Samurai having no guns never had a chance. Shogun not happy.

Guns are manufactured to kill people. Guns do not care who they
kill. And neither do the people who use those guns to kill.

Guns are not a "force equalizer", but a weapon of terror.

There are more public mass shootings in the USA than in any other
country in the world.

Why is that?

Americans own nearly half (46%) of the estimated 857 million
civilian-owned guns worldwide.

India is second, at 71 million.

About 66% of US gun owners own multiple guns.

About 61% of gun deaths in the USA are suicides.

Guns are manufactured to kill people. Usually people who want
to kill themselves, rather than others.

Of course, only one gun is all that is really needed to off oneself.
Along with one bullet.

Personally, I like the Japanese way. No gun, or bullet, required.

I live in Canada where restrictive changes HAVE been made, and the data
after a couple decades of that experiment show that firearm restrictions
have very little to no effect on overall violent crime, homicide, or
suicide numbers.

If someone is intent on killing himself, he is going to find a way
to do it. Even if it kills him. Same if someone is intent on killing
someone else. But most kill themselves before they kill someone else.

Sure, if you remove enough guns you'll reduce the number of people *shot*
but that does not equate to reducing the number of people *killed*

Kind of hard to do a mass shooting with a knife. Columbine would
never have happened if those two kids had been armed only with knives.
Or at Parkland, where scores of other students were murdered.

The latter is a far more important measure in my mind, and requires systemic
cultural changes rather than simple band-aid solutions like gun control.

Japan banned guns, that ban lasting for about a century, before
having to re-introduce it after the White Man made his appearance.
Japan later went to war against Russia, attacked Pearl Harbor, and
invaded much of the Pacific. Today, not many folks in Japan own a
gun. Which is why gun violence in Japan has a death rate of 0.04
per 100,000.

Anyone who's been shown that reality and instead chooses to focus on the
guns means an individual either cannot think logically, or has a political agenda to push that benefits from dishonest language.

I am basing my comments on data and reports that can be easily
verified. One of those sources is the 2018 Switzerland-based Small
Arms Survey (SAS) report. Another source is humanoshpere.org.
But there are other sites that confirm the same thing.

Either way, you should view said individual with extreme caution when
approaching the ballot booth.

St. Paul (the one in the bible) did tell us to "Question everything."

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Re: Republicans & Trump
By: Lee Lofaso to Kostie Muirhead on Mon Aug 31 2020 04:52 pm

Guns are not a "force equalizer", but a weapon of terror.
There are more public mass shootings in the USA than in any other
country in the world.

Do you care about shootings, or killings? They lead in civilian involved shootings, but barely register in terms of overall violent crime or mass killings as a whole.

About 66% of US gun owners own multiple guns.

And? Completely irrelevant to anything. That's equivalent to changing a discussion about driving age to how many cars are in a household. Data being related does not make it relevant.

Guns are manufactured to kill people. Usually people who want
to kill themselves, rather than others.
Of course, only one gun is all that is really needed to off oneself.
Along with one bullet.
Personally, I like the Japanese way. No gun, or bullet, required.

Ok, if you're seriously comparing the morality of different ways to off oneself I really have to wonder about your thought process.

If someone is intent on killing himself, he is going to find a way
to do it. Even if it kills him. Same if someone is intent on killing someone else. But most kill themselves before they kill someone else.

Umm, Ok. That's kind of exactly what my point is - the implement is the last thing you should be looking at if you actually want to affect change. Changing access to implements without addressing root causes doesn't actually change anything.

Kind of hard to do a mass shooting with a knife. Columbine would

Mass *shooting* yes, mass *killing* no. There's mass stabbing and killings with other bladed weapons ALL THE DAMN TIME in the world. We've fairly recently seen a mass murder rivaling any shooting conducted with nothing more than a rental truck.

If you don't like guns, that's fine. But arguing that somehow changing the second amendment in the US is going to stop all the issues with violence is *at best* just a waste of energy that's far better spent nearly anywhere else. There's major cultural, socio-economic, media, political, and mental health access issues that do *actually* need attention and would *actually* pay dividends. Gun control is at best just safety theatre in the same vein as the overly intrusive TSA nonsense one has to deal with if travelling in the US. Do you think that preventing a 90 year old woman from carrying too much shampoo onto a plane actually does anything to prevent someone crashing it into a building?
===
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Hello Kostie,

Guns are not a "force equalizer", but a weapon of terror.
There are more public mass shootings in the USA than in any other >LL>country in the world.

Do you care about shootings, or killings? They lead in civilian involved
shootings, but barely register in terms of overall violent crime or mass killings as a whole.

Japan has 0.04 deaths per 100,000 people killed by guns.
That pales in comparison with how many people in the USA
who are killed by guns.

There are more public mass shootings in the USA than in any other
country in the world. There is a reason why. That reason is easy
access to guns. No real rules of any kind. Want a gun? Go to a gun
show. No need for any background check. Or anything at all. Just
tell the salesman you are old enough to buy one. That should do it.
Assuming you've got the cash to buy it. Not sure if any of those
dealers allow for buying on credit ...

About 66% of US gun owners own multiple guns.

And? Completely irrelevant to anything.

The more guns, and ammo to go with those guns, the more people
that can be killed. Remember, there are more public mass shootings
in the USA than in any other country in the world.

That's equivalent to changing a discussion about driving age to how many
cars are in a household.

Americans love their guns. The more the merrier.

Data being related does not make it relevant.

Well, it is far easier, and faster, to grab another (preloaded) gun
than it is to reload. Especially when shooting at a large crowd.

Guns are manufactured to kill people. Usually people who want
to kill themselves, rather than others.
Of course, only one gun is all that is really needed to off oneself. >LL>Along with one bullet.
Personally, I like the Japanese way. No gun, or bullet, required.

Ok, if you're seriously comparing the morality of different ways to off
oneself I really have to wonder about your thought process.

Some people are born killers. That is what they do. Kind of like
their life's calling. And when their task has been completed, they
always save one last bullet for themself. Except a few, who either
didn't count right, or chickened out when it came to the end.

If someone is intent on killing himself, he is going to find a way
to do it. Even if it kills him. Same if someone is intent on killing >LL>someone else. But most kill themselves before they kill someone else.

Umm, Ok. That's kind of exactly what my point is - the implement is the last
thing you should be looking at if you actually want to affect change. Changing access to implements without addressing root causes doesn't
actually change anything.

Why did a white kid walk into a black church in South Carolina
and mow down a bunch of black people saying their prayers? What
kind of change did he have in mind? After the cops showed up, he
gave himself up without a fight. Now he is likely to be executed.

Did that make black churches any safer for black folks to pray in?
No. Did that stop white racists from murdering black folks in cold
blood? No. Did that change society's view on the death penalty?
No.

So why have a 2nd Amendment? What does it accomplish?

Kind of hard to do a mass shooting with a knife. Columbine would

Mass *shooting* yes, mass *killing* no.

People who get shot as opposed to some other way usually die.

There's mass stabbing and killings with other bladed weapons ALL THE DAMN
TIME in the world.

The difference being more who are shot die rather than those who
were not.

We've fairly recently seen a mass murder rivaling any shooting conducted
with nothing more than a rental truck.

A rental truck is not a suicide bomber. Although a suicide bomber
can be viewed as a mass murderer.

If you don't like guns, that's fine. But arguing that somehow changing the
second amendment in the US is going to stop all the issues with violence is *at best* just a waste of energy that's far better spent nearly anywhere else. There's major cultural, socio-economic, media, political, and mental health access issues that do *actually* need attention and would *actually* pay dividends. Gun control is at best just safety theatre in the same vein
as the overly intrusive TSA nonsense one has to deal with if travelling in the US. Do you think that preventing a 90 year old woman from carrying too much shampoo onto a plane actually does anything to prevent someone
crashing it into a building?

I'll have to be really careful the next time I am on an airplane.
Those 90 year-old women can be dangerous. Truly dangerous. With, or
without, their shampoo. Or walking stick.

--Lee

--
If PBS won't do it, who will?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

... The only thing he accomplished
made
healthcare less affordable.

Depends on where you live, I think... In any case, our heath care isn't that expensive in NYS. YMMV

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Depends on where you live, I think... In any case, our heath care isn't tha expensive in NYS. YMMV

You're right, people in other states have different plans and
different medical systems to deal with, but we are all suckers when we pay the penalty for not having coverage.

Maybe Obama was looking out for the medical industry when he enacted it, to reduce the # of uninsured people the hospitals have to care for. But I have a friend who makes little money as a cashier at a gas station, and he pays that penalty every year because it's cheaper than the gas station's health insurance.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 29 Aug 2020, Dale Shipp said the following...

You are mixed up. It is Trump who only thinks of himself. The people I mentioned are thinking about the American people and America.

Which people of those, the Republicans who are riden with biden. These people might need your help, because when Trump wins in November the
Republican constituents (voters) who those in office will be pissed.
Please don't surprised when these people lose their jobs, due to being voted out of office.

Trump didn't need to run for President, he did so out of desire because the country has been going in the wrong direction.
Stupid politicians on both sides letting other countries Rip the United
States off with the largest abuses coming from China. Remember nafta, I will never know why Bill Clinton thought this was good for America, because it was
a disaster for American business and the American family.

If Trump has thought only of himself, then why is the President donating his salary every quarter?

President Trump has done more then more for the Black folks then any
President in the past 50 years.
Funding Black Colleges.
Prison Reform.
First Step Act.
Opportunity Zones within urban environments.

Why do you think that they were elected to DC? I see a moderate number
of prominent Republican strategists who have supported the campaigns of previous Republicans for President and for other offices. These are the people who work behind the scenes to help a candidate get elected.

Yeah support is fine, but these people can not win their bid without the vote from the people.

The Democratic Party is a mess and they are repeating the same mistakes from 2016. All they do is complain about the other side, the have not indicated any agenda or what they would do differently.

Actually Biden has published much of what he would do.

From the NY POST
Joe Biden signed the death warrant for his campaign last week, even if he doesn't know it. The joint manifesto he released with Bernie Sanders is 110 pages of radical far-left policies - from a job-killing $2 trillion climate agenda to eliminating cash bail and dismantling border protection.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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On 28 Aug 2020, Aaron Thomas said the following...

I tune into CNN sometimes just for a wider variety of non-political news stories, but I get a little offended when they inject anti-Trump
messages into everything. That's something that conservative news like Fox, OANN, & NY Post don't do. You don't get a Fox news story saying something like "ISIS advancing in Syria due to lack of action from
Obama." (even though that would probably be accurate.)

Brave man watching CNN, I avoid watching CNN and PMS_MSNBC, you will never get the truth from those networks, see if you can get Newsmax TV. Trust me, Aaron it will be like a breath of fresh air.

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On 29 Aug 2020, Kostie Muirhead said the following...

Re: Republicans & Trump
By: Lee Lofaso to Aaron Thomas on Sun Aug 30 2020 05:47 am

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help.

Now that HAS to be a troll.

You have no idea of how Right you are Kostie.

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the truth from those networks, see if you can get Newsmax TV. Trust me, Aar it will be like a breath of fresh air.

Thanks for that tip. I'll try Newsmax TV. I was delighted when I first learned about OANN. They are pretty cool.

I'll always be a Fox News fan, but they've been getting a little irritating lately with their typical media antics, covering stories about "black man shot by police." I thought they were better than that, but it seems like they too want to aim for shock value and use irelevant race-reporting.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
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Am 01 Sep 20 21:57:35 schrob Lee Lofaso an Kostie Muirhead zum Thema <Republicans & Trump>

Japan has 0.04 deaths per 100,000 people killed by guns.

Most of which are suicides.


Sayonara,
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

On 09-03-20 08:25, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Republicans & Trump <=-

You are mixed up. It is Trump who only thinks of himself. The people I mentioned are thinking about the American people and America.

Which people of those, the Republicans who are riden with biden. These people might need your help, because when Trump wins in November the Republican constituents (voters) who those in office will be pissed. Please don't surprised when these people lose their jobs, due to being voted out of office.

None of the ones I am aware of are running for office at the current
time, although one of them was elected to the post of Lt. Governor
before he became the chairman of the RNC.

Trump didn't need to run for President, he did so out of desire
because the country has been going in the wrong direction.

Others, including some close to Trump, have said that he never expected
to win but rather just hoped to boost his business interests. I don't
put a lot of credibility in that statement. But then, who can really
know what goes on in his mind from day to day.

If Trump has thought only of himself, then why is the President
donating his salary every quarter?

Because money is not all that important to him -- power and self
approval is what he craves.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 02:24:08, 04 Sep 2020
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On 03 Sep 2020, Aaron Thomas said the following...

the truth from those networks, see if you can get Newsmax TV. Trust me it will be like a breath of fresh air.

Thanks for that tip. I'll try Newsmax TV. I was delighted when I first learned about OANN. They are pretty cool.

I'll always be a Fox News fan, but they've been getting a little irritating lately with their typical media antics, covering stories
about "black man shot by police." I thought they were better than that, but it seems like they too want to aim for shock value and use irelevant race-reporting.

Fox News has a few critics all of which are Democrats.
Chris Wallace, Juan Williams and the most irritating person of all has to be Jessica Tarlov who is the absolute worst.
The people within fox news panels have to be thinking, who invited this bitch?

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On 04 Sep 2020, Dale Shipp said the following...

On 09-03-20 08:25, Gregory Deyss <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Republicans & Trump <=-

You are mixed up. It is Trump who only thinks of himself. The peopl mentioned are thinking about the American people and America.

Which people of those, the Republicans who are riden with biden. Thes people might need your help, because when Trump wins in November the Republican constituents (voters) who those in office will be pissed. Please don't surprised when these people lose their jobs, due to bein voted out of office.

None of the ones I am aware of are running for office at the current
time, although one of them was elected to the post of Lt. Governor
before he became the chairman of the RNC.

Trump didn't need to run for President, he did so out of desire because the country has been going in the wrong direction.

Others, including some close to Trump, have said that he never expected
to win but rather just hoped to boost his business interests. I don't
put a lot of credibility in that statement. But then, who can really
know what goes on in his mind from day to day.

Stared off at a good neutral point but then the needle leaned left with your comment who know what goes through his mind, your not paying attention.
What goes through his mind is carried out for the benefit of all Americans.

If Trump has thought only of himself, then why is the President donating his salary every quarter?

Because money is not all that important to him -- power and self
approval is what he craves.

I would disagree with that statement, but everyone wants to be respected. Before he ran for the Presidency, nearly everyone respected Donald Trump. Republicans and Democrats alike. including the African-American civil
leaders.

Andrew Cuomo should be arrested on the grounds of a treasonous threat, suggesting to Donald Trump, don't come to NY, never-mind bodyguards you will need an army. He has one of those by the way.

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Chris Wallace, Juan Williams and the most irritating person of all has to b Jessica Tarlov who is the absolute worst.

Chris Wallace is a liberal? I never noticed that about him. He doesn't seem that bad. I liked his handling of the Trump/Clinton debate.

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Greg,

Repealing the 2nd Amendment would help.

Now that HAS to be a troll.

You have no idea of how Right you are Kostie.

John Paul Stevens, retired Justice of the Supreme Court, claimed
it best to repeal the Second Amendment. Imagine that. A Republican.
Died at age 99 last July. Said it was misinterpreted by the Court
back in 2008 and the only solution now is to repeal it.

Stevens was one of the four dissenting Justices in the 2008 ruling
that changed the meaning of the amendment.

--Lee

--
Probably the best beer in the world

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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