Hello everybody!

I am actually a huge fan of the USA, and as a European I see the intellectual and also economic strength of the USA quite positively. Even though the U.S. has lost a lot of credit with the world community in recent years, many of the standards that exist there are still considered a model for Western-style democracies.

I have been to the USA 15 times, partly on business, partly on vacation. Of course, this can not be compared to when you live there, that's clear to me. I have made quite a few friends here and am at least more familiar with the situation in the US than a complete outsider.

Trump's reign has been very upsetting to me from the outside. Here in Europe, too, we are dealing with some autocrats, even in the EU. I was all the more horrified when I witnessed Trump's deliberate separation of the transatlantic alliances. The fact that the United Kingdom has also lost its global value dramatically as a result of the Brexit is only mentioned in passing, but as a big fan of the UK, too, I was very shocked by it.

What amazes me, and not only in the USA, is the fact that only a few global media corporations, which ultimately only want to spread sensations and conspiracy theories among the people in order to earn a lot of money, can now have such an influence on broad sections of the population. Supplemented by dubious information sites with unverifiable rumors it is in the last 20 years apparently worldwide succeeded to divide us, the people, deeply.

I am the last one who believes in conspiracy theories, and it is not even necessary. It is easy to explain why this has developed: Many populists have taken the unfortunate methods of a regime that has its roots in Austria and Germany and transported them into the 21st century. There is no political agenda anymore, only division.

In the USA while Biden tries to lead the country into the future, the Reps can think of nothing but blockade politics. Their greed for power goes so far that they harm their own country. They have no ideas or proposals, at least none that are useful. They would rather run after a narcissistic criminal and liar than finally reform their rotten party. One can only hope that the Democrats win the midterm elections and sanity prevails. Once Trump was more than enough. The recovery of the USA will take time anyway.

As I said, I see comparable structures and challenges for upright democrats worldwide, so this is not a monopoly of the U.S. that things are currently going so tragically in the development of our society.

Michael


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
* Origin: Silent Chat Point (2:310/31.4)

Michael,

I have been to the USA 15 times, ...

Beuhhh ... more than 100 ...

Of course, this can not be compared to when you live there,

When I add it all up, I was there 7-8 years. I know my way aound in DC better than in Brussels ...

Many populists
have taken the unfortunate methods of a regime that has its roots in Austria and Germany and transported them into the 21st century.

Invoking Godwin's Law? I'm outta here ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Re: Re: The future of the USA
By: Ward Dossche to Michael Mrak on Thu May 13 2021 18:26:14

I have been to the USA 15 times, ...

Beuhhh ... more than 100 ...

Lucky You. I only make it once a year for 1 week or 10 days.

Many populists
have taken the unfortunate methods of a regime that has its roots in Austria and Germany and transported
them into the 21st century.

Invoking Godwin's Law? I'm outta here ...

Well, history more or less always catches up with you. In the end, this topic is about constructed hatred that divides
the people, and the Nazis were highly professional in this respect. With the difference that the Nazis then killed
those who thought differently.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Silent Chat BBS - fidobbs.mrak.at (2:31/124)

On 13 May 2021, Michael Mrak said the following...

What amazes me, and not only in the USA, is the fact that only a few global media corporations, which ultimately only want to spread
sensations and conspiracy theories among the people in order to earn a
lot of money, can now have such an influence on broad sections of the population. Supplemented by dubious information sites with unverifiable rumors it is in the last 20 years apparently worldwide succeeded to
divide us, the people, deeply.

The trick, it seems to me, is to make non-political things political. Take,
for example, a worldwide pandemic. Normally, if the most knowledgeable
disease experts on the planet tell you that a) it exists, b) it's dangerous, and c) it's very contageous, we'd follow their advice. But make it political and people can justify a "belief" that it doesn't even exist. Apparently ignorance isn't ignorance if it's a political position.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Jeff Thiele wrote to Michael Mrak <=-

The trick, it seems to me, is to make non-political things political. Take, for example, a worldwide pandemic. Normally, if the most knowledgeable disease experts on the planet tell you that a) it exists,
b) it's dangerous, and c) it's very contageous, we'd follow their
advice. But make it political and people can justify a "belief" that it doesn't even exist. Apparently ignorance isn't ignorance if it's a political position.

I think this is disingenious. The *politics* is more along the lines of things like this:
* Deciding when to open schools based on political lobbying by teacher's unions, after declaring loudly that all decisions should and would be made only by "following the science". Ignoring it when the CDC is caught out parroting the email messages sent to them in the lobbying process and presenting it as their "science based" opinions.
* Instituting lockdowns based primarily on a totally false and discredited model from a single fraudulent scientist. Then doubling down when he, and his models, have been exposed as being fraudulent.
* Insisting on masks to be worn outside, when the science shows CLEARLY that there is no greater protection from infection (or infecting) in general outside interaction.
* Insisting on masks indoors, and making arbitary decisions about which businesses can or cannot be open and what the physical seperation between patrons should be when there are really good peer-reviewed scientific studies that say that masks make a very minor difference in the propogation of the virus, and that what is more important is the length of time your in the same envirionment. In fact the same study shows that masks can make the problem worse by forcing air up and thus distributing the virus more widely within the enclosed space.
* Insisting on masks in spite of the fact that it is very well known that there are specific procedures which make them effective, such as changing them regularly, not touching them, washing your hands etc.
* Ignoring the preeminent medical authority's opinion, stated on their website, that masks outside of a clinical envirionment are primarily only useful for ameriolating the public panic and have NO scientifically proven effect in diminishing the spread of the virus.
* Insisting that only expensive medication from "Big Pharma" should be used to treat the virus, or symtoms of the virus, and that generic well proven medication which has been administered almost one BILLION times is too harmful to be used.
* Harping on the concept of a "pandemic" which simply means an epidemic is present in more than one continet. Using that some argument, then many other common diseases are also pandemics. Using that as scare tactics to allocate TRILLIONS of dollars to pork projects and push partisan NON-SCIENTIFIC pet projects.
* Generating fear in the population and using it as justification for political control of that population. It is a fundamental concept that you cannot govern without the consent of the governed. Using the scare tactics to generate consent is making it political.
* When the "most knowledgeable disease experts" are denigrated and vilified because they do what scientists are supposed to do and question the accepted beliefs based on the evidence they see, then that's politics.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point.


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On 13 May 2021, Boondock said the following...

The trick, it seems to me, is to make non-political things political. Take, for example, a worldwide pandemic. Normally, if the most knowledgeable disease experts on the planet tell you that a) it exist b) it's dangerous, and c) it's very contageous, we'd follow their advice. But make it political and people can justify a "belief" that doesn't even exist. Apparently ignorance isn't ignorance if it's a political position.

I think this is disingenious. The *politics* is more along the lines of things like this:

I would disagree. Especially early on, the "belief" that the virus was a hoax was political. Later on, numerous attempts were made to downplay the danger ("You have a 99.98% chance of survival" without taking into account how many people 0.02% of 330 million people is, for example), to call into question
the actual death rates ("Only 6% of fatalities were due to COVID alone", for example) and so on and so forth. These were all attempts to deceive, and all occurred largely on one side of the political aisle.

* Deciding when to open schools based on political lobbying by teacher's unions, after declaring loudly that all decisions should and would be
made only by "following the science". Ignoring it when the CDC is caught out parroting the email messages sent to them in the lobbying process
and presenting it as their "science based" opinions.

I think that the teachers would have a vested interest in the safety of their work environment. To be fair, other groups were also lobbying the CDC with their recommendations.

As far as the actual influence goes, the CDC did not change their opinion
based on the emails, but did take some suggestions on how to word certain things. That's a big difference.

* Instituting lockdowns based primarily on a totally false and
discredited model from a single fraudulent scientist. Then doubling down when he, and his models, have been exposed as being fraudulent.

Who would this scientist be? Lockdowns definitely made a difference; the only legitimate political criticism would be whether that difference was worth the cost to the economy.

* Insisting on masks to be worn outside, when the science shows CLEARLY that there is no greater protection from infection (or infecting) in general outside interaction.

That depends on the conditions, especially crowd density. Wearing a mask
while going for a job with no one else around is one thing; going to an
outdoor concert is quite another.

* Insisting on masks indoors, and making arbitary decisions about which businesses can or cannot be open and what the physical seperation between patrons should be when there are really good peer-reviewed scientific studies that say that masks make a very minor difference in the propogation of the virus, and that what is more important is the length
of time your in the same envirionment. In fact the same study shows that masks can make the problem worse by forcing air up and thus distributing the virus more widely within the enclosed space.

I guess no one's presented surgeons with this evidence, then? Suffice it to say, I'm very skeptical about this, because masks do break up puffs of air quite well.

* Insisting on masks in spite of the fact that it is very well known
that there are specific procedures which make them effective, such as changing them regularly, not touching them, washing your hands etc.

What's your point here? We shouldn't insist on masks because they can be effective? What happened to your previous point?

* Ignoring the preeminent medical authority's opinion, stated on their website, that masks outside of a clinical envirionment are primarily
only useful for ameriolating the public panic and have NO scientifically proven effect in diminishing the spread of the virus.

I don't recall any "preeminent medical authority" saying that. In the early days of the virus when there were mask shortages, it was recommended that ordinary people forgo them to make sure that medical workers and those who really needed them had access to the meager supply. That recommendation
changed with the increased availability of masks, of course.

* Insisting that only expensive medication from "Big Pharma" should be used to treat the virus, or symtoms of the virus, and that generic well proven medication which has been administered almost one BILLION times
is too harmful to be used.

Hydroxychloroquine does not work in most cases, and can be detrimental. That one is definitely political, because the only reason people keep bringing it
up is because Donald Trump can never, ever be wrong about anything. This is exactly the behavior I was referring to. But what did Trump take when he had COVID? Was it not the "expensive medication from 'Big Pharma'" that you so decry?

* Harping on the concept of a "pandemic" which simply means an epidemic
is present in more than one continet. Using that some argument, then
many other common diseases are also pandemics. Using that as scare
tactics to allocate TRILLIONS of dollars to pork projects and push partisan NON-SCIENTIFIC pet projects.

It's an aptly descriptic term. COVID is indeed a pandemic. Are you saying
it's not?

* Generating fear in the population and using it as justification for political control of that population. It is a fundamental concept that
you cannot govern without the consent of the governed. Using the scare tactics to generate consent is making it political.

Reality can be scary.

* When the "most knowledgeable disease experts" are denigrated and vilified because they do what scientists are supposed to do and question the accepted beliefs based on the evidence they see, then that's
politics.

You mention no names, but I seriously doubt that these are the "most knowledgeable disease experts" who are questioning the "accepted beliefs," as none of their ideas have yet been proven and many have been shown to be in error. Unknowledgeable people disputing knowledgeable opinions when in fact they have no idea what they're talking about is a hallmark of right-wing politics.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point.

Having read this, I am in fact more confident in my original assessment.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

In the USA while Biden tries to lead the country into the future, the Reps can >hink of nothing but blockade politics. Their greed for power goes so far that t
ey harm their own country.

You get what you give, i.e. if you use "blockade politics," it will be
used against you later. Many of us would also disagree about Biden leading
the country into the future, unless that is a future where everything is too expensive, all the work (and the jobs that accompany it) is done outside
of the USA, and the majority of us either work for the government or are on government basic assistance.

Sorry that is not a future that interests me much, even if it does mean
we've "gone green" and have world peace.

Also, if you look at the suppression of free speach for those that won't
just follow along "for the greater good," you have something going on with
this administration (or, more precisely, their supporters) that is much
closer to the Germany/Austria type thing you mentioned than it was under
the previous administration.


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On 13 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Also, if you look at the suppression of free speach for those that won't just follow along "for the greater good," you have something going on
with this administration (or, more precisely, their supporters) that is much closer to the Germany/Austria type thing you mentioned than it was under the previous administration.

No one's free speech has been suppressed. Sure, Trump can't post on Facebook
or Twitter anymore, but hey, now he's got his own blog and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Clearly free speech is not what you think it is.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Jeff Thiele wrote to Boondock <=-

Having read this, I am in fact more confident in my original
assessment.

<sigh> Of course you are...

... You can tune a piano, but you can`t tuna fish.
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Hello Jeff!

13 May 21 12:43, you wrote to me:

The trick, it seems to me, is to make non-political things political. Take, for example, a worldwide pandemic. Normally, if the most knowledgeable disease experts on the planet tell you that a) it
exists, b) it's dangerous, and c) it's very contageous, we'd follow
their advice. But make it political and people can justify a "belief"
that it doesn't even exist. Apparently ignorance isn't ignorance if
it's a political position.

I can't tell you how much I share your opinion. What really frustrates me in the meantime is that it has become absolutely impossible to take countermeasures.

I admire you for your patience and your empathetic responses to some of the messages here.

Michael


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
* Origin: Silent Chat Point (2:310/31.4)

Hello Ward,

I have been to the USA 15 times, ...

Beuhhh ... more than 100 ...

Of course, this can not be compared to when you live there,

When I add it all up, I was there 7-8 years. I know my way aound in DC better than in Brussels ...

DC is easy. New Orleans is fun. Dells, Texas is insane. All the
streets were one-way. Once you enter, you are committed. Took me
almost all day to escape.

Many populists
have taken the unfortunate methods of a regime that has its roots in
Austria and Germany and transported them into the 21st century.

Invoking Godwin's Law? I'm outta here ...

Please. Let's not insult my high school English teacher.
He was from Austria. And taught us lots of German words we
never knew.

--Lee

--
It's not for women.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Michael,

I have been to the USA 15 times, ...

Beuhhh ... more than 100 ...

Lucky You. I only make it once a year for 1 week or 10 days.

I have also been to the USA many times. Sometimes from Canada,
sometimes from Mexico, sometimes from other places. But I always
make it back. Somehow.

Many populists
have taken the unfortunate methods of a regime that has its roots in

Austria and Germany and transported

them into the 21st century.

Invoking Godwin's Law? I'm outta here ...

My high school Englsh teacher was from Austria.
He taught us lots of German words none of us knew.
Always smiled at us when mentioning those words.
Years later, some of us caught his joke. The words
he was telling us were all German dog commands.

And then there was my neighbor when I was a kid.
He went to Europe and came back with a German wife.
She was beautiful. Couldn't speak a word of English,
but she was soooooo beautiful ...

Well, history more or less always catches up with you.

I found many of Trump's postures to be more like Benito Mussolini
rather than Adolf Hitler. Would have been a perfect match had he
shaved his head. And I cannot imagine him with half a mustache ...

In the end, this topic is about constructed hatred that divides
the people, and the Nazis were highly professional in this respect. With the
difference that the Nazis then killed those who thought differently.

All democracies have fascist tendencies. Even the USA has shown
acts of fascism from time to time. If fascism takes hold here,
it will be more of a fascism with a smile than the militaristic
fascism of Germany and Japan.

--Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

What amazes me, and not only in the USA, is the fact that only a few global media corporations, which ultimately only want to spread
sensations and conspiracy theories among the people in order to earn a
lot of money, can now have such an influence on broad sections of the population. Supplemented by dubious information sites with unverifiable rumors it is in the last 20 years apparently worldwide succeeded to
divide us, the people, deeply.

You're totally right about that.

In the USA, and southward from the USA, we've got Telemundo and Univision acting as the 'super spreaders' of false information for Spanish speaking people.

The media in the western hemisphere is full of misinformation. I see they have led you to believe that Trump was autocratic. His policies were right-leaning, but his policies did not lead to outrage from the left - only fake outrage.

Now Biden is literally destroying America, and the media is probably being
paid to say the opposite.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 13 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

In the USA, and southward from the USA, we've got Telemundo and Univision acting as the 'super spreaders' of false information for Spanish speaking people.

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If you're referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your grasp on reality.

The media in the western hemisphere is full of misinformation. I see
they have led you to believe that Trump was autocratic. His policies
were right-leaning, but his policies did not lead to outrage from the
left - only fake outrage.

Trump was autocratic. He was quite infamous for tolerating no dissent from those around him. His policies were indeed right-leaning, and also cruel, petty, and vindictive. It did in fact lead to quite a lot of very real
outrage from the left, especially the separation of families at the border.

Now Biden is literally destroying America, and the media is probably
being paid to say the opposite.

Biden is not literally destroying America. Your belief without proof that somebody somewhere is probably making money off of disagreeing with you
speaks volumes.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Also, if you look at the suppression of free speach for those that won't just follow along "for the greater good," you have something going on with this administration (or, more precisely, their supporters) that is much closer to the Germany/Austria type thing you mentioned than it was under the previous administration.

No one's free speech has been suppressed. Sure, Trump can't post on Facebook or Twitter anymore, but hey, now he's got his own blog and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Clearly free speech is not what you think it is.

I wasn't talking about Trump.

Actually, you are a perfect example of what I was pointing out. Someone expresses an opinion here, and you are quick to jump in (even if the
message is not addressed to you) to point out that they are stupid or their point is invalid, which I am guessing you will hope will shut them up.

"Or, more precisely, their supporters..." but I know you are doing it for
the "greater good" and my invalid point is stupid and should not be brought
up. <GRIN>


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Jeff Thiele wrote to Boondock <=-

Having read this, I am in fact more confident in my original
assessment.

<sigh> Of course you are...

Boondock,
This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego,
please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle option
Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

Thanks!


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I admire you for your patience and your empathetic responses to some of the mes
ages here.

He is one of our FIDOnet members of the leftist elite thought police. He
is not so patient or empathetic when we don't just take his word for things
and give into his point of view.


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On 14 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

No one's free speech has been suppressed. Sure, Trump can't post on Face or Twitter anymore, but hey, now he's got his own blog and there's nothi anyone can do about it. Clearly free speech is not what you think it is.

I wasn't talking about Trump.

Ok.

Actually, you are a perfect example of what I was pointing out. Someone expresses an opinion here, and you are quick to jump in (even if the message is not addressed to you) to point out that they are stupid or their point is invalid, which I am guessing you will hope will shut them up.

I do not suppress anyone's free speech. If you don't want your points called stupi or invalid, stop making stupid or invalid points. Freedom of speech
does not in any way guarantee that one's speech will go unchallenged and I
have no idea where you got that notion from.

"Or, more precisely, their supporters..." but I know you are doing it for the "greater good" and my invalid point is stupid and should not be brought up. <GRIN>

Again, no one's free speech is being suppressed. I'm not saying it shouldn't
be brought up; I'm saying it's not guaranteed to go unchallenged. You seem to have a fundamental confusion on this point.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 14 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

I admire you for your patience and your empathetic responses to some of t >mes
ages here.

He is one of our FIDOnet members of the leftist elite thought police. He is not so patient or empathetic when we don't just take his word for things and give into his point of view.

Apparently Mike thinks I'm trying to suppress his free speech by challenging his statements, and that somehow makes me the "thought police." Mike is
clearly a very confused person.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 14 May 2021, Michael Mrak said the following...

Hello Jeff!

Hello!

The trick, it seems to me, is to make non-political things political. Take, for example, a worldwide pandemic. Normally, if the most knowledgeable disease experts on the planet tell you that a) it exists, b) it's dangerous, and c) it's very contageous, we'd follow their advice. But make it political and people can justify a "belief" that it doesn't even exist. Apparently ignorance isn't ignorance if it's a political position.

I can't tell you how much I share your opinion. What really frustrates
me in the meantime is that it has become absolutely impossible to take countermeasures.

It has. We are only as strong as our weakest link, and quite a few of our
links are not only weak but take ingorant pride in their weakness.

I admire you for your patience and your empathetic responses to some of the messages here.

Thanks! I try.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 14 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Actually, you are a perfect example of what I was pointing out. Someone expresses an opinion here, and you are quick to jump in (even if the message is not addressed to you) to point out that they are stupid or their point is invalid, which I am guessing you will hope will shut them up.

First of all, it's my understanding that this is a public forum, all messages are considered public, and anyone may respond to any public message regardless of who it's addressed to, especially if they're the one being discussed in
the third person in said public message.

Second of all, I am here to discuss politics, as the title of the feed would suggest. I am not here to shut anyone up, nor have I ever asked or demanded that anyone shut up, nor have I ever requested that someone be shut up. On the contrary it would seem that I am responsible for generating a fair amount of discussion in this tiny little corner of the internet.

You really need to understand the difference between suppression of free
speech and having the ideas contained in one's exercise of free speech challenged. They are very near polar opposite approaches to public discourse.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Boondock,
This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego, please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle
option Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

Thanks!

Done.

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Re: Re: The future of the USA
By: Mike Powell to BOONDOCK on Fri May 14 2021 11:09:00

This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego, please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle option Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

Ok.. NOW it seems correct :-)

Boondock
===
BoonDock
El Gato de Fuego - elgato.synchronetbbs.org 4:92/1 - Pedasi/Panama



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This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego, please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle optio
Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

Ok.. NOW it seems correct :-)

Yes, thanks! :)


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The media in the western hemisphere is full of misinformation. I see they have
led you to believe that Trump was autocratic. His policies were right-leaning,
but his policies did not lead to outrage from the left - only fake outrage.

I disagree somewhat re: the outrage being fake. Misinformed, yes and, for some, because we were turning away from left. I think only other
politicians, and a few others who saw some benefit from unrest, were faking
it.

I was talking last night to a friend of mine. Afterwards, I was reflecting
on how, for the last 4 years, they were really hard to talk to. It is very weird seeing a normally rational person get so upset about a political
figure. There have been a lot of political figures that I don't like or
don't trust, but I have never got that emotional about any of them.


* SLMR 2.1a * "La Quinta." Spanish for "Next to Denny's."
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Mike,

Having read this, I am in fact more confident in my original
assessment.

<sigh> Of course you are...

Boondock,
This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego, please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle option Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

28 Apr 2021, nodelist.118: ,1,El_Gato_De_Fuego_BBS,Panama_City, John_Dovey,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:elgato.synchronetbbs.org

12 May 2021, nodelist.132: Node removed from the nodelist

Seems he has been transformed ...

Thanks!

.... into something else. :)

Remember when safe sex was not getting caught in the act?

At six feet apart? Only Long Dong Silver could manage that.

For more info about the Donger -

https://medium.com/illumination/the-legend-of-long-dong-silver
-931116078740


--Lee

--
My body, my choice! / Her body, her choice!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Boondock,

Boondock,
This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego,
please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle
option Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

Thanks!

Done.

You heard da man! Real Names only! Nobody can have just one!

--Lee

--
Because not everyone likes licorice

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Aaron Thomas wrote to Michael Mrak <=-

Now Biden is literally destroying America, and the media is probably
being paid to say the opposite.

Mostly they're being paid to not say anything and keep everything quiet.

That's why companies like CNN are in financial difficulties. They've built a business around collecting eyeballs on their content. But no one is listening to "Orange Man Bad" anymore and they are losing big today.

I expected to see them going bankrupt by now, but I think someone (Soros? China?) is bankrolling them right now.


... 10 days and 18 messages later, "Oh I understand now"
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)

Mike Powell wrote to JEFF THIELE <=-

Actually, you are a perfect example of what I was pointing out.
Someone expresses an opinion here, and you are quick to jump in (even
if the message is not addressed to you) to point out that they are
stupid or their point is invalid, which I am guessing you will hope
will shut them up.

That's exactly what Jeff and his ilk are tasked to do.

1. Yell down anyone who does not follow the Narrative so they stop posting. They can't have counterpoints to the Narrative.
2. If that doesn't work, spew a bunch of incoherent drivel to "make them look bad".
3. Tire people out arguing here so that they don't have the energy to actually do something.


... Misfortune: The kind of fortune that never misses.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 (1:275/89)

Hello Mike,

Also, if you look at the suppression of free speach for those that

won't

just follow along "for the greater good," you have something going on
with this administration (or, more precisely, their supporters) that

is

much closer to the Germany/Austria type thing you mentioned than it

was

under the previous administration.

No one's free speech has been suppressed. Sure, Trump can't post on
Facebook
or Twitter anymore, but hey, now he's got his own blog and there's nothing
anyone can do about it. Clearly free speech is not what you think it is.

I wasn't talking about Trump.

Doesn't matter. The issue really is not about Trump, but stupidity.

Actually, you are a perfect example of what I was pointing out. Someone expresses an opinion here, and you are quick to jump in (even if the message is not addressed to you) to point out that they are stupid or their
point is invalid, which I am guessing you will hope will shut them up.

Jeff is not saying that you, or anybody else, is stupid. Trump has
done many stupid things during his four years in office. He is not the
only politician who has done stupid things, only the most notable.

"Or, more precisely, their supporters..." but I know you are doing it for the "greater good" and my invalid point is stupid and should not be brought
up. <GRIN>

We have all seen some of the things his stupid supporters have
done, including their violent and criminal acts taking over the
capitol building. Should that have been left unsaid?

Stupid is as stupid does. Is it allowable (under rules of free speech)
for participants to post messages about stupidity, or what stupid
people do? I mean, stupid people do stupid things. How is it against
the rules to say a stupid person does stupid things? I mean, Trump
has been doing that for years. Not just acting stupid, but being
stupid. Of course, now that he lost the election and is out of office
we no longer notice the stupid things he does. Which is quite a
reflief for most of us ...

--Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True
--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Jeff,

I admire you for your patience and your empathetic responses MP>to some

of t messages here. He is one of our FIDOnet members of MP>the leftist elite thought police. He is not so patient or MP>empathetic when we don't just take his word for things and give MP>into his point of view.

Apparently Mike thinks I'm trying to suppress his free speech by challenging
his statements, and that somehow makes me the "thought police." Mike is clearly a very confused person.

That he may be. But even confused persons should always be welcome to
have their own say in public forums, especially those dedicated to the
world of politics.

--Lee

--
Every bite is a different temperature

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Jeff,

Actually, you are a perfect example of what I was pointing out.

Someone

expresses an opinion here, and you are quick to jump in (even if the
message is not addressed to you) to point out that they are stupid or
their point is invalid, which I am guessing you will hope will shut

them

up.

First of all, it's my understanding that this is a public forum, all messages
are considered public, and anyone may respond to any public message regardless of who it's addressed to, especially if they're the one being tdiscussed in he third person in said public message.

Everybody is free to express their own opinion in this forum.
This is Fidonet, where there are no moderators to suppress anyone's
voice.

Second of all, I am here to discuss politics, as the title of the feed would
suggest. I am not here to shut anyone up, nor have I ever asked or demanded
that anyone shut up, nor have I ever requested that someone be shut up. On the contrary it would seem that I am responsible for generating a fair amount dof iscussion in this tiny little corner of the internet.

It is good to find so many folks freely expressing their own opinions.

You really need to understand the difference between suppression of free speech and having the ideas contained in one's exercise of free speech challenged. They are very near polar opposite approaches to public discourse.

Even those who disagree with freedom of speech are welcome to have
their own say. Such is the beauty of Fidonet.

--Lee

--
It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello John,

This is a real names echo. If you are the sysop of El Gato del Fuego,
please check the settings in SCFG and make sure you have the toggle

option

Post Using Real Names set to Yes.

Ok.. NOW it seems correct :-)

Does it?

28 Apr 2021, nodelist.118: ,1,El_Gato_De_Fuego_BBS,Panama_City, John_Dovey,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:elgato.synchronetbbs.org

12 May 2021, nodelist.132: Node removed from the nodelist

Boondock

You can call me Al.
You can call me Sam.
You can call me anything you want to ...

===
BoonDock
El Gato de Fuego - elgato.synchronetbbs.org 4:92/1 - Pedasi/Panama

The Swamp Thing (you can call me anything you want to)
Lee's Place

--
It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If you're referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your
grasp on reality.

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even more outrageous and fake than CNN.

Trump was autocratic. He was quite infamous for tolerating no dissent
from those around him. His policies were indeed right-leaning, and also cruel, petty, and vindictive. It did in fact lead to quite a lot of very real outrage from the left, especially the separation of families at the border.

Nobody tolerates dissent in the workplace. You're either a team player or you're done. Kissing butts to be politically correct (aka not firing people) would be careless and weak.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Hello Aaron!

15 May 21 10:05, you wrote to Jeff Thiele:

Trump was autocratic. He was quite infamous for tolerating no
dissent from those around him. His policies were indeed
right-leaning, and also cruel, petty, and vindictive. It did in
fact lead to quite a lot of very real outrage from the left,
especially the separation of families at the border.

Nobody tolerates dissent in the workplace. You're either a team player
or you're done. Kissing butts to be politically correct (aka not
firing people) would be careless and weak.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that
the foreigners don't know about.

Is that what you mean by "free speech"? Simply being able to insult and belittle?

It's not a US problem alone, apparently there are people worldwide who live in a parallel universe and simply ignore fact-based evidence. I think this is a great pity and also dangerous for a living democracy. I am aware that in the USA, for example, there is no way to convince so-called "Trumpists" that they are simply wrong about the content. It's all about ideology and hate.

You can also find comparable things here in Europe, so it doesn't hurt to think outside the box. Take Poland, where the government is currently implementing "democratic corrections" to the free press. Or Hungary, where the head of state openly admits that he wants to transform the country into an "illiberal democracy" - as if there can be an illiberal democracy. Great Britain, where the Brexit was "elected" by means of mass dumbing down by Robert Murdoch's media and also by Facebook and Co. All "democratically", of course.

I could go on and on about many countries in which precisely this political unculture is now standard. I don't even want to talk about Russia and the situation there (also called democracy there). Unfortunately, this phenomenon also applies to the USA, where, as it seems to me at least, there is no longer any consensus orientation in society. This is not only sad, it ultimately serves no one except the pied pipers who want exactly that.

Michael


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
* Origin: Silent Chat Point (2:310/31.4)

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If you're referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your grasp on reality.

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even more outrageous and fake than CNN.

He obviously is discussing something he knows nothing about. I can't
believe he doesn't know that they have news (or at least they did back when they were available to watch here).

Nobody tolerates dissent in the workplace. You're either a team player or you're done. Kissing butts to be politically correct (aka not firing people) would be careless and weak.

If you work for the government in a non-appointed role (i.e. you are in a
merit or tenured job), and you don't do anything blatantly stupid (watch
porn, don't show up at all, sniff people's hair), you might be able to get
away with not being a team player. Same thing if you work in a union shop.

You are correct, though, in the real world and in appointed government positions, you are there to be a team player or you likely won't be there
long.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

Some of the citizens don't know it, either... or don't like it and won't
ever admit it.


* SLMR 2.1a * No viruses detected. Must be a pair of Nanites.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

I was talking last night to a friend of mine. Afterwards, I was reflecting on how, for the last 4 years, they were really hard to talk
to. It is very weird seeing a normally rational person get so upset
about a political figure. There have been a lot of political figures
that I don't like or don't trust, but I have never got that emotional about any of them.

For me it's still hard to talk politics with people. As you may have noticed, everyone still wants to talk about Trump. (I don't.)

The comfort of Trump in office felt great. I didn't feel threatened by North Korea, Iran, Russia, or central american gangs, but of course all that has changed now.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Re: The future of the USA
By: Lee Lofaso to John Dovey on Sun May 16 2021 00:53:30

Does it?
28 Apr 2021, nodelist.118: ,1,El_Gato_De_Fuego_BBS,Panama_City, John_Dovey,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:elgato.synchronetbbs.org
12 May 2021, nodelist.132: Node removed from the nodelist

Not that it's really relevant, but there was a hickup at the ZC level. It will eventually get corrected. My Akas will be 4:92,0,1 and 4:920,0,1 as well as 4:920/69. It'll get there :-)


John Dovey
===
BoonDock
El Gato de Fuego - elgato.synchronetbbs.org 4:92/1 - Pedasi/Panama



... The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: El Gato de Fuego - elgato.synchronetbbs.org (4:92/1)

* Originally in POLITICS
* Crossposted in FN_SYSOP

Hi John,

On 2021-05-16 16:42:53, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

My Akas will be 4:92,0,1 and 4:920,0,1 as well as 4:920/69. It'll get there :-)

What are you going to do with the /1 AKA's? You don't really need them from a technical point of view...

Bye, Wilfred.
--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi John,

Not that it's really relevant, but there was a hickup at the ZC level.

Not at this ZCs level, nor ZC1 nor ZC3.

* 0rigin: El Gato de Fuego - elgato.synchronetbbs.org (4:92/1)

You're also posting from an FTN-address which is not in the nodelist.

Plus your clocksettings are incorrect ...

Date: 16 May 21 16:42:53

It's now 19:50 in my time zone which differs 7hrs from yours ... ?

\%/@rd
--- DB4
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

On 16 May 2021, Lee Lofaso said the following...

That he may be. But even confused persons should always be welcome to
have their own say in public forums, especially those dedicated to the world of politics.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 15 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If you' referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your grasp on reality.

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even more outrageous and fake than CNN.

CNN's news stories are neither fake nor outrageous, so you're not really
saying much here.

Trump was autocratic. He was quite infamous for tolerating no dissent from those around him. His policies were indeed right-leaning, and al cruel, petty, and vindictive. It did in fact lead to quite a lot of v real outrage from the left, especially the separation of families at border.

Nobody tolerates dissent in the workplace. You're either a team player or you're done. Kissing butts to be politically correct (aka not firing people) would be careless and weak.

Wow. Where do you work? Dissent is very well-tolerated in my workplace. We
work together to try to find the best solutions, and an environment where dissent was not tolerated would not work well at all for us.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America unhappy. That sounds pretty divisive to me.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 16 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If yo referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your grasp on reality.

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even outrageous and fake than CNN.

He obviously is discussing something he knows nothing about. I can't believe he doesn't know that they have news (or at least they did back when they were available to watch here).

I am fully aware that they have news, but that is not the focus of their programming.

Nobody tolerates dissent in the workplace. You're either a team player o you're done. Kissing butts to be politically correct (aka not firing peo would be careless and weak.

If you work for the government in a non-appointed role (i.e. you are in a merit or tenured job), and you don't do anything blatantly stupid (watch porn, don't show up at all, sniff people's hair), you might be able to
get away with not being a team player. Same thing if you work in a
union shop.

You can dissent AND be a team player. That's what I do at work. Biden
tolerates dissent. If Biden says, "I think we should bomb X," and some adviser says "I don't think that's a good idea because A, B, and C," Biden's going to listen and at least take their dissent under consideration.

If Trump said, "I think we should bomb X," and some adviser said, "I don't think that's a good idea because A, B, and C," Trump would be more likely to bomb X anyway, bomb Y out of spite, and fire the advisor via a denigrating tweet.

You are correct, though, in the real world and in appointed government positions, you are there to be a team player or you likely won't be there long.

Dissent is not an indication of a non-team-player.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

Some of the citizens don't know it, either... or don't like it and won't ever admit it.

You seem to think that 1/2 is some kind of mandate. The key fact you don't
seem to realize is that there is another 1/2 just as big (or slightly bigger, by about 7 million or so).

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Aaron,

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If

you're

referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your
grasp on reality.

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even more
outrageous and fake than CNN.

Don Lemon has thrown in the towel. Ellen DeGeneres has also thrown
in the towel. Maybe she is his replacement. If so, we will soon find
out Monday night, on The Handout. Sponsored by CNN.

Trump was autocratic. He was quite infamous for tolerating no dissent
from those around him. His policies were indeed right-leaning, and

also

cruel, petty, and vindictive. It did in fact lead to quite a lot of

very

real outrage from the left, especially the separation of families at

the

border.

Nobody tolerates dissent in the workplace. You're either a team player or you're done. Kissing butts to be politically correct (aka not firing people)
would be careless and weak.

Members of a union go on strike when they are not satisfied.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

Biden whooped Trump's ass. That is the fact that everybody in the
entire world knows. Including Donald Trump. Whooped his ass by over
7 million votes. A landslide win in the electoral college. Even
certified by the Congress. Despite the actions a a small group of
misfits who decided to act like a bunch of juveniles.

--Lee

--
Popular vote!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 15 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

For me it's still hard to talk politics with people. As you may have noticed, everyone still wants to talk about Trump. (I don't.)

Ok.

The comfort of Trump in office felt great. I didn't feel threatened by North Korea, Iran, Russia, or central american gangs, but of course all that has changed now.

Well, so much for not wanting to talk about Trump.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

Is that what you mean by "free speech"? Simply being able to insult and belittle?

He made half of us happy with his policies. The belittling was a mistake that Trump made. He should have had better manners. They (Democrats/liberals/Hollywood) got revenge by insulting Trump (and his supporters too) on every TV channel, on every TV show, even on Family Guy.

In North Korea I bet you know the outcome of insulting the country's leader. But in the USA we're allowed to say whatever we want about anybody with no punishment, until somebody puts a black lady on a bottle of pancake syrup.

am aware that in the USA, for example, there is no way to convince so-called "Trumpists" that they are simply wrong about the content. It's all about ideology and hate.

I don't believe that to be true. Look at our conversations with liberals here in Fidonet; we're willing to be wrong, and the liberals are NOT willing to be wrong. If you prove one of them wrong, they will ignore your message,
disappear for a few days, then come back with another hilariously derranged story. None of these liberal guys have ever said "Oops! My mistake. You were right."

There's no such thing as "Trumpists." We were conservatives before Trump, and we're conservatives now that he's gone. He makes no difference to us at this point. He was a great president, but he failed big time in the election, and
we didn't appreciate that.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even outrageous and fake than CNN.

He obviously is discussing something he knows nothing about. I can't believe he doesn't know that they have news (or at least they did back when they were available to watch here).

Our pal is a little racist sometimes, saying stuff like "Telemundo is all telenovelas and no news," but the left has taught us all that racism is fun to joke about, with Russians getting toilet paper in their happy meals, Asian people can't speak English or drive well, and now "Telemundo is all telenovelas & no news."

If you work for the government in a non-appointed role (i.e. you are in a merit or tenured job), and you don't do anything blatantly stupid (watch porn, don't show up at all, sniff people's hair), you might be able to
get away with not being a team player. Same thing if you work in a
union shop.

It's no secret anymore, but part of our culture is that you have to become an elected official to get away with sexually aggressive behavior in the workplace. Some Democrats respect it, whereas they only rape and/or sexually assault 1 or 2 women during their tenure, but it's guys like Andrew Cuomo who ruin it by just grabbing every female within arm's reach like some kind of mutant gorilla "on steroids."

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that foreigners don't know about.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America unhappy. That sounds pretty
divisive to me.

1/2 of America is still unhappy months into the Biden disaster.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

For me it's still hard to talk politics with people. As you may have noticed, everyone still wants to talk about Trump. (I don't.)

Me, either, really. They like falling back on "He (Biden) is better than
Trump anyway," but I always think to myself "You always said how horrible
you thought Trump was, so saying someone is better than him (in your eyes)
does not say too much!" :)

The comfort of Trump in office felt great. I didn't feel threatened by North Korea, Iran, Russia, or central american gangs, but of course all that has changed now.

Interesting about how one of the campaign talking points was that Trump
didn't know anything about diplomacy like Biden did but, now that he is
gone, the Middle East is heating up again, Russia vs. Ukraine is heating up again, China vs. everyone is heating up again, and we have a crisis at our southern border.


* SLMR 2.1a * He's dead Jim. Grab his tricorder. I'll get his wallet.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Our pal is a little racist sometimes, saying stuff like "Telemundo is all telenovelas and no news," but the left has taught us all that racism is fun to
joke about, with Russians getting toilet paper in their happy meals, Asian people can't speak English or drive well, and now "Telemundo is all telenovela
& no news."

Not sure about "racist," but some statements from some leftists would lead one to believe that everyone of color is underinformed and cannot help
themselves. I see and know otherwise.

... but it's guys like Andrew Cuomo who
ruin it by just grabbing every female within arm's reach like some kind of mutant gorilla "on steroids."

In his case, maybe it is "stareoids." :)


* SLMR 2.1a * He does the work of 3 men.... Larry Moe & Curly.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

It's not a US problem alone, apparently there are people worldwide who live in
parallel universe and simply ignore fact-based evidence. I think this is a gre
t pity and also dangerous for a living democracy. I am aware that in the USA, f
r example, there is no way to convince so-called "Trumpists" that they are simp
y wrong about the content. It's all about ideology and hate.

Living in the states, you see plenty of people on the other side who are
the same way. There are examples here which you seem to be ignoring.

You can also find comparable things here in Europe, so it doesn't hurt to think
outside the box. Take Poland, where the government is currently implementing "d
mocratic corrections" to the free press. Or Hungary, where the head of state op
nly admits that he wants to transform the country into an "illiberal democracy"
- as if there can be an illiberal democracy. Great Britain, where the Brexit wa
"elected" by means of mass dumbing down by Robert Murdoch's media and also by
acebook and Co. All "democratically", of course.

Our country was not doing anything like those countries are, until after
Trump was no longer in power. Or before he was elected when, for example,
the IRS was harassing groups whose beliefs did not line up with those of
the group in power.

Trump expressed opinions but never used the military or other government organizations to harass or suppress citizens.


* SLMR 2.1a * EBCDIC: Erase Backup Chew Disk Ignite Cards
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
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Michael Mrak wrote to All <=-

In the USA while Biden tries to lead the country into the future, the
Reps can think of nothing but blockade politics. Their greed for power goes so far that they harm their own country. They have no ideas or proposals, at least none that are useful. They would rather run after a narcissistic criminal and liar than finally reform their rotten party.
One can only hope that the Democrats win the midterm elections and
sanity prevails. Once Trump was more than enough. The recovery of the
USA will take time anyway.

As I said, I see comparable structures and challenges for upright democrats worldwide, so this is not a monopoly of the U.S. that things
are currently going so tragically in the development of our society.

Well, that we can agree on. :-) It's not a "USA" problem; it's a problem
with mankind as a whole! People will never agree completely, but meanwhile depravity grows and grows...

I don't agree that Reps are doing nothing but blockade politics. Gun Control, for example, has become a very 'political' issue with Dems pretty much siding FOR gun control and Reps pretty much siding for FREEDOM as declared by the constitution.

Abortion is another. Murdering Jews in the 40's was not okay, but murdering
the unborn is for some reason okay?

SMH

The United States was formed by God fearing Christians, but they wouldn't recognize it today...





... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
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Hello John,

Does it?
28 Apr 2021, nodelist.118: ,1,El_Gato_De_Fuego_BBS,Panama_City,
John_Dovey,-Unpublished-,300,CM,IBN:elgato.synchronetbbs.org
12 May 2021, nodelist.132: Node removed from the nodelist

Not that it's really relevant, but there was a hickup at the ZC level. It will eventually get corrected. My Akas will be 4:92,0,1 and 4:920,0,1 as well as 4:920/69. It'll get there :-)

I'm sure it will. Eventually. This thing called Fidonet is a hobby.
Not like NASA, which had trained engineers to walk on the Moon. And
one geologist who went there to verify they did their job (the last
man on the Moon.

Not that anybody actually set foot on the Moon.

--Lee

--
Love! Not hate! Makes America great!
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On 17 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact foreigners don't know about.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America unhappy. That sounds pretty divisive to me.

1/2 of America is still unhappy months into the Biden disaster.

1/2 of America (plus 7 million) was unhappy for four years.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 16 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Our pal is a little racist sometimes, saying stuff like "Telemundo is all telenovelas and no news," but the left has taught us all that racism is fun to joke about, with Russians getting toilet paper in their happy meals, Asian people can't speak English or drive well, and now
"Telemundo is all telenovelas & no news."

Excuse me? I never said that. I said that they're not a news-focused network and aren't spreading misinformation. Did that bug you so much that you have
to invent quotes and falsely attribute them to me? Good to know.

It's no secret anymore, but part of our culture is that you have to
become an elected official to get away with sexually aggressive behavior in the workplace. Some Democrats respect it, whereas they only rape
and/or sexually assault 1 or 2 women during their tenure, but it's guys like Andrew Cuomo who ruin it by just grabbing every female within arm's reach like some kind of mutant gorilla "on steroids."

Many Republicans respect it. It's not a question of party affiliation; it's a matter of power. Don't forget that Roger Ailes resigned from Fox News after being accused of sexual harassment by several female employees, sexual harassment that he was apparently not very secretive about at all. And then there's Dennis Hastert, who was elevated by Republicans to Speaker of the House. But yeah, focus on Cuomo if it makes you feel good about your party.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 16 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

He made half of us happy with his policies. The belittling was a mistake that Trump made. He should have had better manners. They (Democrats/liberals/Hollywood) got revenge by insulting Trump (and his supporters too) on every TV channel, on every TV show, even on Family
Guy.

(By half, Aaron means around seven million less than one half.)

In North Korea I bet you know the outcome of insulting the country's leader. But in the USA we're allowed to say whatever we want about
anybody with no punishment, until somebody puts a black lady on a bottle of pancake syrup.

(There was no punishment meted out in the Aunt Jemima syrup bottle incident.
In fact, there was no government action at all concerning the bottle, nor was there ever any threat of government action. The company that produces the
syrup chose to change the packaging all on their own. Aaron is grossly misrepresenting this by implying that the syrup company was in some way punished.)

I don't believe that to be true. Look at our conversations with liberals here in Fidonet; we're willing to be wrong, and the liberals are NOT willing to be wrong. If you prove one of them wrong, they will ignore
your message, disappear for a few days, then come back with another hilariously derranged story. None of these liberal guys have ever said "Oops! My mistake. You were right."

(I have. I've also noticed that disappearing for a few days now and then is
par for the course here. In the most recent instance of my being gone for a
few days, we had to put a pet down, were busy searching for a new pet to rescue, were traveling to and from another city to pick up said new pet, and then were busy doing all of the things one must do to welcome a new puppy into a home with other dogs.)

There's no such thing as "Trumpists." We were conservatives before
Trump, and we're conservatives now that he's gone. He makes no
difference to us at this point. He was a great president, but he failed big time in the election, and we didn't appreciate that.

(By "big time," Aaron is presumably referring to the 7 million votes by which Trump legitimately lost the election despite Aaron's insistence that 1/2 of
the country was happy with Trump.)

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 16 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

They're not right-wing news outlets, if that's what you mean. If yo referring to their fine selections of telenovellas, I question your grasp on reality.

They are not just soap operas. They have CNNlike news with stories even outrageous and fake than CNN.

He obviously is discussing something he knows nothing about. I can't believe he doesn't know that they have news (or at least they did back when they were available to watch here).

I know exactly what I'm talking about. I know that they have news, but they
are not spreading misinformation. The telenovella remark, which seems to
have flown right over conservative heads, was to acknowledge that there is fiction-based programming on those networks, but the news isn't it. I never said that they don't have news. I did acknowledge that one might consider
their news to be misinformation if one considered right-wing news outlets to
be reliable (which they are not).

We have many Spanish-language stations in our lineup here, including but not limited to thos mentioned.

If you work for the government in a non-appointed role (i.e. you are in a merit or tenured job), and you don't do anything blatantly stupid (watch porn, don't show up at all, sniff people's hair), you might be able to
get away with not being a team player. Same thing if you work in a
union shop.

Unless your job involves working with a team to solve problems. In these situations, dissent is a healthy asset. This is the sort of dissent I was referring to. Of course Trump had issues with dissent among the populace, but that's not at all what I was referring to. I was referring to dissent from
his staff, cabinet, and advisors -- Trump was notoriously intolerant of it.

Trump's policies made 1/2 of America happy. That's the key fact that the foreigners don't know about.

Some of the citizens don't know it, either... or don't like it and won't ever admit it.

1/2 - 7,000,000+. With 158,000,000+ votes cast in the 2020 election, it's
much closer to 55/45 than 50/50. If Trump had indeed made 1/2 half of America happy, he probably would have won re-election. But he didn't. He lost by a
wide margin.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 17 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Not sure about "racist," but some statements from some leftists would
lead one to believe that everyone of color is underinformed and cannot help themselves. I see and know otherwise.

Some statements from conservatives would lead one to believe that everyone of color is uninformed and cannot help themselves. Such as, oh, I don't know, statements that Telemundo and Univision are spreading misinformation
throughout Mexico and Central America, for example.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 17 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

outside the box. Take Poland, where the government is currently implement "d
mocratic corrections" to the free press. Or Hungary, where the head of st op
nly admits that he wants to transform the country into an "illiberal democracy"

Our country was not doing anything like those countries are, until after Trump was no longer in power. Or before he was elected when, for
example, the IRS was harassing groups whose beliefs did not line up with those of the group in power.

1. Trump on more than one occasion referred to the press as "the enemy of the people."
2. The Trump administration on multiple occasions revoked press passes as punishment for unfavorable coverage.
3. The IRS incident was related to applications for non-profit status by
groups with political sounding names, such as "Pennsylvania Tea Party." The type of non-profit status they were seeking cannot be held by groups whose primary activity is political.

Trump expressed opinions but never used the military or other government organizations to harass or suppress citizens.

Remember that photo op in front of the church, wiht the upside-down Bible? There was a whole lot of harassment and suppression going on there, as people were gassed and beaten to make way for the president to walk through.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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Mike Powell wrote to AARON THOMAS <=-

Interesting about how one of the campaign talking points was that Trump didn't know anything about diplomacy like Biden did but, now that he is gone, the Middle East is heating up again, Russia vs. Ukraine is
heating up again, China vs. everyone is heating up again, and we have a crisis at our southern border.

You would have thought that after the Vietnam debacle people would realize that Democrats are horrible at foreign policy. I think it has something to do with their complete lack of understanding of human nature.


... Adam ate the apple, and our teeth still ache.
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Interesting about how one of the campaign talking points was that Trump didn't know anything about diplomacy like Biden did but, now that he is gone, the Middle East is heating up again, Russia vs. Ukraine is heating up again, China vs. everyone is heating up again, and we have a crisis
at our southern border.

Maybe Joe Biden really does know everything about diplomacy, but his team of neurologists don't want stability in the world or even in the USA right now.
So in order for Joe to comply with their recomendations, he needs to stay quiet. He'll "get in trouble" if he talks too much.

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Not sure about "racist," but some statements from some leftists would lead one to believe that everyone of color is underinformed and cannot help themselves. I see and know otherwise.

Some statements from conservatives would lead one to believe that everyone of color is uninformed and cannot help themselves. Such as, oh, I don't know, statements that Telemundo and Univision are spreading misinformation throughout Mexico and Central America, for example.

I never made that statement. I only stated that they have news programs, something you initially made light of. Confusing your sources again?


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1. Trump on more than one occasion referred to the press as "the enemy of the people."
2. The Trump administration on multiple occasions revoked press passes as punishment for unfavorable coverage.

From:
https://freebeacon.com/politics/kamala-harris-enemies-list/
===
Report: Kamala Harris Keeps Enemies List of Journalists Who Don't
'Appreciate Her Life Experience'

Binders full of racists

Andrew Stiles May 17, 2021 3:40 pm

Vice President Kamala Harris keeps a list of reporters and other
political types who might be racist, according to a profile published in
the Atlantic on Monday.

"The vice president and her team tend to dismiss reporters. Trying to
get her to take a few questions after events is treated as an act of
impish aggression," writes Edward-Isaac Dovere. "And Harris herself
tracks political players and reporters whom she thinks don't fully
understand her or appreciate her life experience."

[More at the link, and thanks to Sean Dennis for originally sharing this.]

I would say not taking unscripted questions at all is not any better than revoking a single individual's press pass. At least Joe sometimes slips up
and takes unscripted questions (and seems to like to). I have not seen a Kamala presser where she doesn't get up and leave before question time.
Now that a lot of the COVID mandates are going away, I wonder what excuse
she will give now.

Also, asking questions or using words she doesn't like makes you a racist.


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On 18 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Not sure about "racist," but some statements from some leftists wou lead one to believe that everyone of color is underinformed and can help themselves. I see and know otherwise.

Some statements from conservatives would lead one to believe that everyo color is uninformed and cannot help themselves. Such as, oh, I don't kno statements that Telemundo and Univision are spreading misinformation throughout Mexico and Central America, for example.

Did I say you said it? Nope. Aaron said it: "In the USA, and southward from
the USA, we've got Telemundo and Univision acting as the 'super spreaders' of false information for Spanish speaking people."

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 18 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

2. The Trump administration on multiple occasions revoked press passes a punishment for unfavorable coverage.

Report: Kamala Harris Keeps Enemies List of Journalists Who Don't 'Appreciate Her Life Experience'
I would say not taking unscripted questions at all is not any better than revoking a single individual's press pass. At least Joe sometimes slips up and takes unscripted questions (and seems to like to). I have not
seen a Kamala presser where she doesn't get up and leave before question time. Now that a lot of the COVID mandates are going away, I wonder what excuse she will give now.

Revoking a press pass means that a particular news outlet is not allowed to report first-hand on what happens at the press conference, regardless of whether they (or anyone) gets to ask any questions. I'm not sure what you
mean by "unscripted questions." Are you implying that the Q&A is staged, and
do you have any evidence of this?

Also, revoking of a press pass does not just cut access to the President and the Vice President, but also the Press Secretary. I notice you left Jen Psaki out of your rebuttal. Her back-and-forths with Fox News' Peter Doocy are
quite well-known.

Also, asking questions or using words she doesn't like makes you a
racist.

Ok, back to the basics, I guess. In human society, words are used to express ideas. Words have meanings, and those meanings can change over time. Words
are also very expressive; there are quite a lot of them and word choice can
be used to convey very nuanced messages. Due to a phenomenon known as "connotation," certain words can take on meaning different from their
original ones. In practice, one can often infer another's leanings, political or otherwise, from their word choice.

I know nuance isn't your strong suit, but come on.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 18 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

1/2 of America is still unhappy months into the Biden disaster.

1/2 of America (plus 7 million) was unhappy for four years.

You have to understand that # includes all the fake votes too, since
none of them were cancelled.

No credible evidence of widespread voter fraud has been found. Several individual instances of voter fraud were uncovered, but those votes were not counted.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
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On 18 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Excuse me? I never said that. I said that they're not a news-focused network and aren't spreading misinformation. Did that bug you so much that you have to invent quotes and falsely attribute them to me? Good know.

They are news focused. They are the world news for everyone who speaks Spanish. But it's "not news focused" unless it's American liberal news in English?

They are entertainment-focused and also provide news. Hence the telenovellas.

Many Republicans respect it. It's not a question of party affiliation it's a matter of power. Don't forget that Roger Ailes resigned from F

Roger Ailes isn't a republican - he's an entertainer at best.

Roger Ailes was a media consultant for the Republican presidents Richard
Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George H.W. Bush. Not a Republican my @$$.

about at all. And then there's Dennis Hastert, who was elevated by Republicans to Speaker of the House. But yeah, focus on Cuomo if it makes you feel good about your party.

Dennis Hastert is old news. Which party has done more to accomodate sex offenders in recent years?

There's also Matt Gaetz, who has not been asked to resign from any appointments. That Hastert is old news doesn't make it irrelevant by any
means.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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1/2 of America is still unhappy months into the Biden disaster.

1/2 of America (plus 7 million) was unhappy for four years.

You have to understand that # includes all the fake votes too, since none of them were cancelled.

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Excuse me? I never said that. I said that they're not a news-focused network and aren't spreading misinformation. Did that bug you so much
that you have to invent quotes and falsely attribute them to me? Good to know.

They are news focused. They are the world news for everyone who speaks
Spanish. But it's "not news focused" unless it's American liberal news in English?

Many Republicans respect it. It's not a question of party affiliation; it's a matter of power. Don't forget that Roger Ailes resigned from Fox

Roger Ailes isn't a republican - he's an entertainer at best.

about at all. And then there's Dennis Hastert, who was elevated by Republicans to Speaker of the House. But yeah, focus on Cuomo if it
makes you feel good about your party.

Dennis Hastert is old news. Which party has done more to accomodate sex offenders in recent years?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
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Maybe Joe Biden really does know everything about diplomacy, but his team of neurologists don't want stability in the world or even in the USA right now. So in order for Joe to comply with their recomendations, he needs to stay quiet. He'll "get in trouble" if he talks too much.

LOL I thought it was pretty funny when he said that. Knowing him he might
have been joking... or might not have been! :)


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Did I say you said it? Nope.

You did act like you thought they didn't have news in order to make Aaron
look stupid.


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On 19 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Did I say you said it? Nope.

You did act like you thought they didn't have news in order to make Aaron look stupid.

I never said they didn't have news. I said that their news wasn't spreading misinformation, and that they're not a news-oriented network. As a non-news-oriented network, they also contain fictional programming. You
tried to twist it as if I'd said that it had to be either news or
telenovellas, but not both, which I never said. The truth is, you feel the
need to misrepresent what I actually said in order to make Aaron *not* look stupid.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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On 19 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

Did I say you said it? Nope.

You did act like you thought they didn't have news in order to make Aaron look stupid.

Additionally, neither you nor Aaron has presented evidence that Telemundo and Univision are spreading misinformation throughout Spanish-speaking areas. Instead, you have invented something I never said and then proved it "wrong," as if that won the issue for you. It did not. My original statement still stands; Aaron's original statement has been challenged and has as of yet not been proven.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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Ron Lauzon wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Mike Powell wrote to AARON THOMAS <=-

Interesting about how one of the campaign talking points was that Trump didn't know anything about diplomacy like Biden did but, now that he is gone, the Middle East is heating up again, Russia vs. Ukraine is
heating up again, China vs. everyone is heating up again, and we have a crisis at our southern border.

You would have thought that after the Vietnam debacle people would
realize that Democrats are horrible at foreign policy. I think it has something to do with their complete lack of understanding of human
nature.

People are horrible at dealing with other people... The Middle East will
not be quiet until the antichrist makes a false peace. IMO, we should
be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of the stand against the others that
it causes... God's chosen people? Yeah, put me there too.

(And yes, I am a Christian)




... Be alert! The country needs more lerts.
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Roger Ailes was a media consultant for the Republican presidents Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George H.W. Bush. Not a Republican my @$$.

He's a Republican voter, but you can't expect anyone to believe that 20,000 unaccompanied children at the border has nothing to do with Democrat
pedophilia when Joe Biden is the one who is trafficking all those children here.

He brings unaccompanied children here rampantly; not adults because adults are yucky to Democrats.

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Roger Ailes was a media consultant for the Republican presidents Rich Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George H.W. Bush. Not a Republican my @$$.

He's a Republican voter, but you can't expect anyone to believe that 20,000 unaccompanied children at the border has nothing to do with Democrat pedophilia when Joe Biden is the one who is trafficking all
those children here.

Nice try, but no. Ailes is definitely a Republican. Biden is not trafficking children. He is granting them asylum and finding them appropriate homes. Your claims are absurd.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Roger Ailes was a media consultant for the Republican presidents Rich Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George H.W. Bush. Not a Republican my @$$.

He's a Republican voter, but you can't expect anyone to believe that 20,000 unaccompanied children at the border has nothing to do with Democrat pedophilia when Joe Biden is the one who is trafficking all
those children here.
He brings unaccompanied children here rampantly; not adults because
adults are yucky to Democrats.

Are they, though? Your previous posts would indicate otherwise. Flip-flop
much?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.
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JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

People are horrible at dealing with other people...

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the past go.

The Middle East
will not be quiet until the antichrist makes a false peace. IMO, we
should be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of the stand against the
others that it causes... God's chosen people? Yeah, put me there too.

I've often said that the problem with Isreal is that you basically have two groups of @$$holes who think they are God's Chosen. When you have that situation, there's little hope for common ground.

But the problem won't solve itself over night, or even over a generation. The start is to quiet things down. You have groups people who are mad at other groups of people because of <bad event>. They pass that hate down to the next generation. But if that next generation has no real reason to be mad at the other group of people, that hate fades and they start asking "why can't we life together".

One good thing about Trump is that he started to quiet the Middle East and start that process. But the Democrats have completely messed that up (like they always do).


... If you smoke after sex you're doing it too fast.
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quiet. He'll "get in trouble" if he talks too much.

LOL I thought it was pretty funny when he said that. Knowing him he
might have been joking... or might not have been! :)

Obama has been wanting to strangle the old man for some time now ;)

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Hello Ron,

People are horrible at dealing with other people...

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the past
go.

That is not the problem in the Middle East. You have one group
of people (Arabs) who have had their own land stolen from them by
another people (the Jews). And now the same people (Jews) want to
steal more of their (Arabs) land.

The Middle East will not be quiet until the antichrist makes a JA>false

peace. IMO, we should be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of JA>the stand against the others that it causes... God's chosen people? JA>Yeah, put me there too.

God told Moses the Holy Land was to be shared with others. IOW,
the Holy Land was *not* for Jews only. God's chosen people were
to live in peace with the peoples already there. That is what
God told Moses - plus forbidding him from entering.

I've often said that the problem with Isreal is that you basically have two
groups of @$$holes who think they are God's Chosen. When you have that situation, there's little hope for common ground.

Two peoples, three faiths. The problem is not religion. Peoples
of all three faiths get along fine. The problem within Judaism is
that the majority of Jews have replaced their faith with that of
a political state. Israel is not so much a democracy, but rather
a theocracy - not much different from Iran.

But the problem won't solve itself over night, or even over a generation.

The state of Israel was created in 1948. The lands given to them
belonged to the Arabs. Naturally, Arabs would object to land being
given to a group of people who had no legitimate right to own those
lands. Remember, there were Jews in Palestine before any Arabs had
land stolen from them. And yes, Araba and Jews lived in peace.

Even after land was given to the Jews that was not enough.
The Jews wanted more. So they decided to go to war in order
to steal more land. Armed and trained by the British, it was
really easy.

Another war followed. And another. Always on Arab lands.
And always started by the Jews.

Today it is another land grab. Jews invading Gaza. Just because
they can.

US President Joe Biden gave a deadline of yesterday to Israeli
PM Benjamin Netanatyu to stop the bombing. What will he do if it
continues?

Will President Biden choose to protect the Palestinians, or will
he choose to protect his friend, the Israeli leader who is bombing
the hell out of them?

I suggest he allows NATO to move in, thus putting an end to the
Israeli massacre. Send NATO member Turkey to Jerusalem, with Erdogen
in charge. He'll know what to do.

The start is to quiet things down.

That is not gonna happen. Not with an Israeli bent on mass destruction.

You have groups people who are mad at other groups of people because of <bad

event>> .

Palestinians are just trying to defend themselves, and their own land.

They pass that hate down to the next generation.

How do you defend yourself from planes, bombs, tanks and enemy
soldiers? Do realize those soldiers are armed, and dangerous.

But if that next generation has no real reason to be mad at the
other group of people, that hate fades and they start asking "why can't we life together".

Christians, Jews, and Muslims would love to live in peace.
And that is what most have done throughout the centuries.
Living in peace, with each other. Throughout the world.

But that is not what is happening in the Levant.
Jews are stealing other peoples' lands. Palestinians
can never have a country of their own because the Jews
want all that land for themselves. Plus more.

How much land to the Jews want? It tells you exactly
how much in their holy book - the torah. Basically, all
the lands from the Mediterranean to the Garden of Eden,
located in Iraq.

One good thing about Trump is that he started to quiet the Middle East and start that process.

Your stupid-ass president *gave* Jerusalem to the Jews, without
regard to international law or any other law. The status of Jerusalem
is between the Arabs and the Jews to decide - as noted by the United
Nations. Which is why no other country in the world recognizes
Jerusalem as part of Israel.

But the Democrats have completely messed that up (like they always do).

Who built a US embassy in Jerusalem?

--Lee

--
Pork: the other white meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 20 May 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...

People are horrible at dealing with other people...

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the past go.

Says the guy whose party absolutely opposes the removal of statues and monuments glorifying the Confederacy.

The Middle East
will not be quiet until the antichrist makes a false peace. IMO, we should be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of the stand against the others that it causes... God's chosen people? Yeah, put me there too.

If you think that the Israelis can do no wrong because they're in your Holy Book, I suggest that you read that Holy Book again. From the beginning. One
of the overarching themes of the Old Testament is the Israelites repeated disobedience and atonement. They repeatedly did what was in their own best interest instead of abiding by their God's laws and commands.

I've often said that the problem with Isreal is that you basically have two groups of @$$holes who think they are God's Chosen. When you have that situation, there's little hope for common ground.

The problem with Israel is that as compensation for their treatment at the hands of the Germans in WWII, the Jews were given the land of the
Palestinians, who had absolutely nothing to do with WWII.

But the problem won't solve itself over night, or even over a
generation. The start is to quiet things down. You have groups people who are mad at other groups of people because of <bad event>. They pass that hate down to the next generation. But if that next generation has
no real reason to be mad at the other group of people, that hate fades
and they start asking "why can't we life together".

<Bad event> happened in 1948. And <bad event> continues to happen every time Israel makes another land grab.

One good thing about Trump is that he started to quiet the Middle East
and start that process. But the Democrats have completely messed that
up (like they always do).

What exactly did the Democrats do? Can you draw a clear line of cause and effect?

Or is it that the Israelis were expected to evict six families from Israeli-controlled Palestine in yet another land grab, and this upset the Palestinians?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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He brings unaccompanied children here rampantly; not adults because adults are yucky to Democrats.

Are they, though? Your previous posts would indicate otherwise. Flip-flop much?

You're correct: Joe Biden is also trafficking adult slaves, but it's the children in the cages that draw the most attention & outrage.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 20 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

He brings unaccompanied children here rampantly; not adults beca adults are yucky to Democrats.

Are they, though? Your previous posts would indicate otherwise. Flip- much?

You're correct: Joe Biden is also trafficking adult slaves, but it's the children in the cages that draw the most attention & outrage.

Joe Biden is not trafficking anyone. There is a huge difference between smuggling humans across the border and human trafficking. You are ignoring
the issue of consent to serve your own dishonest purposes.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Joe Biden is not trafficking anyone. There is a huge difference between smuggling humans across the border and human trafficking. You are
ignoring the issue of consent to serve your own dishonest purposes.

Trump had the migrants waiting by the door, and Biden removed the door. He's more guilty than the cartels.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 20 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Joe Biden is not trafficking anyone. There is a huge difference betwe smuggling humans across the border and human trafficking. You are ignoring the issue of consent to serve your own dishonest purposes.

Trump had the migrants waiting by the door, and Biden removed the door. He's more guilty than the cartels.

Migration and smuggling differ from human trafficking on the matter of
consent. Trump played right into the cartels' hands by making the migrants
wait in Mexico, where the cartels could continue to prey on them.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the past go.

People here let it go/forget about it when it suits them, and march it out
as if it happened yesterday when it suits them.

I typed "people" with my left hand. :)

I've often said that the problem with Isreal is that you basically have two groups of @$$holes who think they are God's Chosen. When you have that situation, there's little hope for common ground.

Several years ago, PBS had a documentary where they interviewed the
decendents of Jews, Christians, and Muslims who lived in the area before
the Zionist movement started (before WW I). Things were apparently much
more peaceful before outsiders showed up and starting claiming ownership to land that was previously treated as "public," and started guarding said
land with hired thugs from Russia and other European nations.

The Ottomans tried to keep things under control, and apparently the
outsiders and natives were close to agreeing to live together when WW I
broke out and the Ottomans suddenly had their hands full.

The rest of the story is history. Britian controlled the area then gave it
to the Zionists after WW II without addressing any of the issues.

One good thing about Trump is that he started to quiet the Middle East and start that process.

Yes. Too bad it was not continued.


* SLMR 2.1a * Mainframe: the biggest PC peripheral you can buy.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
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Hello Jeff,

People are horrible at dealing with other people...

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the
past go.

Says the guy whose party absolutely opposes the removal of statues and monuments glorifying the Confederacy.

Most of those statues were erected during the days of Jim Crow.
When they came down, most people cheered.

The Middle East
will not be quiet until the antichrist makes a false peace. IMO,

we

should be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of the stand against

the

others that it causes... God's chosen people? Yeah, put me there

too.

If you think that the Israelis can do no wrong because they're in your Holy
Book, I suggest that you read that Holy Book again. From the beginning. One
of the overarching themes of the Old Testament is the Israelites repeated disobedience and atonement. They repeatedly did what was in their own best interest instead of abiding by their God's laws and commands.

Not Israel, which is just a political state, but the Jewish people.
The same goes for Muslims, and Hindus, and peoples of other faiths.

If one reads the Holy Book, God showed Moses the Holy Land, but told
him not to enter. He told Moses the Holy Land was to be shared with
those who lived there. Not to be the sole possession of His "chosen
people".

I've often said that the problem with Isreal is that you basically have
two groups of @$$holes who think they are God's Chosen. When you have
that situation, there's little hope for common ground.

The problem with Israel is that as compensation for their treatment at the hands of the Germans in WWII, the Jews were given the land of the Palestinians, who had absolutely nothing to do with WWII.

The Jews traded their religion for a political ideology/state.
What used to be known as Judaism has become Zionism. That it what
most Jews believe in today.

But the problem won't solve itself over night, or even over a
generation. The start is to quiet things down. You have groups

people

who are mad at other groups of people because of <bad event>. They

pass

that hate down to the next generation. But if that next generation

has

no real reason to be mad at the other group of people, that hate

fades

and they start asking "why can't we life together".

<Bad event> happened in 1948. And <bad event> continues to happen every time
Israel makes another land grab.

The Jews were trained and armed by the British just prior to Israel
being declared a state. Those trained and armed Israelis then made
war against Palestinians in order to gain more land than was given
to them by the United Nations. And yet there are some folks who
continue to falsely claim that Palestinians attacked the Jews on Israeli-occupied lands.

What do you think is going on in Gaza today? It is another land
grab by Israel. Nothing legit about it. At all.

One good thing about Trump is that he started to quiet the Middle East
and start that process. But the Democrats have completely messed that
up (like they always do).

What exactly did the Democrats do? Can you draw a clear line of cause and effect?

The status of Jerusalem is to be decided between Israel and Palestine.
That is what the United Nations declared back in the days when Israel
was declared a state. Now you tell me what legal authority Donald Trump
had to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel?

Or is it that the Israelis were expected to evict six families from Israeli-controlled Palestine in yet another land grab, and this upset the Palestinians?

There must be a cease fire to end the violence. In order to maintain
the peace, NATO must enforce it. Therefore, bring Turkish troops to
Jerusalem, and let Erdogen make sure the entire area is safe for all.

--Lee

--
Love trumps hate!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Migration and smuggling differ from human trafficking on the matter of consent. Trump played right into the cartels' hands by making the
migrants wait in Mexico, where the cartels could continue to prey on
them.

Trump was looking out for the best interests of the American people, and Joe's looking out for the best interests of the cartels.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 21 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Migration and smuggling differ from human trafficking on the matter o consent. Trump played right into the cartels' hands by making the migrants wait in Mexico, where the cartels could continue to prey on them.

Trump was looking out for the best interests of the American people, and Joe's looking out for the best interests of the cartels.

The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the American people.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Mike Powell wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the past go.

People here let it go/forget about it when it suits them, and march it
out as if it happened yesterday when it suits them.

But the only way that works is when you have large numbers of people who won't let it go.

I typed "people" with my left hand. :)

8)

One good thing about Trump is that he started to quiet the Middle East and start that process.

Yes. Too bad it was not continued.

Yes. The Democrats have such a great track record of foreign policy. Not.


... Invest in negotiable blondes...
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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On 22 May 2021, Ron Lauzon said the following...

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the p go.

People here let it go/forget about it when it suits them, and march i out as if it happened yesterday when it suits them.

But the only way that works is when you have large numbers of people who won't let it go.

Like those Confederate statues, perhaps?

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Hello Jeff!

22 May 21 15:21, you wrote to Aaron Thomas:

Trump was looking out for the best interests of the American
people, and Joe's looking out for the best interests of the
cartels.

The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the American people.

That's interesting, both Trump and other extreme right-wing parties in Europe or worldwide use the topic of migration to unsettle and frighten. With the massive support of powerful media corporations, which generate high circulations from it. So one helps the other.

Michael


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Trump was looking out for the best interests of the American people, Joe's looking out for the best interests of the cartels.

The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the American people.

Categorizing them all as "refugees" doesn't make them all refugees.

Sexual slavery is a threat to the American people; if we allow it to happen,
we are weak.

Heroin, fentanyl, and cocaine are a threat to the American people. There are Americans who are hooked on these things. People categorized as "refugees" are bringing those items here rampantly, threatening the health of the American people.

The refugees? You must be talking about some children from Syria? They sound like refugees. People who smuggle drugs and children in to the USA are not refugees. But under that guise, you can hand them your wallet and feel good about it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
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The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the American people.

That's interesting, both Trump and other extreme right-wing parties in Europe o
worldwide use the topic of migration to unsettle and frighten. With the massive
support of powerful media corporations, which generate high circulations from i
t. So one helps the other.

Most migrants are likely not a threat. However, when I look at this
country I see that we already have enough bad apples. Why risk letting
more just come and wander around? They most certainly all are not good
people, and they all most certainly are not really from the Americas or
Mexico.

I don't mind legal immigration, where our government gets a chance to vet someone before deciding if they are OK to let in. From what I can tell,
the US is NOT nearly as strict as other countries. Canada, our neighbor,
is generally more strict than we are. Last I checked, they won't even let
you visit if you have a DUI/DWI on your record, for example. Where I have
a problem is letting people in that we don't properly vet or know anything about.

I have not checked, but I would guess that Austria is not real thrilled
about letting just anyone in, either.


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Hello Mike!

23 May 21 10:08, you wrote to me:

I have not checked, but I would guess that Austria is not real
thrilled about letting just anyone in, either.

No sane government allows unregulated migration. That's not the issue I think, I personally don't know any government (right or left) that has unregulated immigration on the agenda.

The difference is that primarily extreme right governments (e.g. also in Hungary) exploit this issue to the maximum for party political reasons. This is perhaps understandable according to the motto "the end justifies the means", but in my opinion it is deeply immoral.

Take the situation in Syria, a dictator by Putin's grace has triggered genocides and a huge flight movement in recent decades. Families, babies - certainly the majority of them not criminals - are now stranded mainly in countries like Greece. Of course, the rich countries cannot solve the misery of this world alone. However, it is disgusting to create enemy images out of these poorest of the poor and this serves above all to stir up resentment and prejudice.

Michael
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
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On 22 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

Trump was looking out for the best interests of the American peo Joe's looking out for the best interests of the cartels.

The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the American people.

Categorizing them all as "refugees" doesn't make them all refugees.

Trump was specifically targeting refugees.

Sexual slavery is a threat to the American people; if we allow it to happen, we are weak.

We fight it as we can, where we can. Closing off entry for refugees will do nothing to combat sexual slavery.

Heroin, fentanyl, and cocaine are a threat to the American people. There are Americans who are hooked on these things. People categorized as "refugees" are bringing those items here rampantly, threatening the
health of the American people.

No, they're not. Some people are, but not the refugees. Trump used the
refugees as part of a numbers game. He said he was keeping the "bad people" from entering the country, but in fact he was going after the low-hanging fruit, the peaceful people seeking asylum in order to make it look like he
was doing something.

The refugees? You must be talking about some children from Syria? They sound like refugees. People who smuggle drugs and children in to the USA are not refugees. But under that guise, you can hand them your wallet
and feel good about it.

Yes, refugees. Some are from Syria, but most are from the Northern Triangle.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

like refugees. People who smuggle drugs and children in to the USA are not refugees. But under that guise, you can hand them your wallet and feel good about it.

My guess would be that what makes him feel most good about it is the fact
that it upsets people like you. :)


* SLMR 2.1a * Blessed are the censors; they shall inhibit the earth.
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On 24 May 2021, Mike Powell said the following...

like refugees. People who smuggle drugs and children in to the USA are n refugees. But under that guise, you can hand them your wallet and feel g about it.

My guess would be that what makes him feel most good about it is the fact that it upsets people like you. :)

The people who turn themselves in at the border are not child- or drug-smugglers. They are refugees seeking asylum. But they're the easy
targets. Lock them out and we can say, "Deportations are up X%! Our country
is safer!" But the people you'd be deporting are not the dangerous ones.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

Ron Lauzon wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

People are horrible at dealing with other people...

People pass on their problems to the next generation and won't let the past go.

Agreed, and entrophy says things will continue to break down evern more
over time (and generations).

The Middle East
will not be quiet until the antichrist makes a false peace. IMO, we
should be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of the stand against the
others that it causes... God's chosen people? Yeah, put me there too.

I've often said that the problem with Isreal is that you basically have two groups of @$$holes who think they are God's Chosen. When you have that situation, there's little hope for common ground.

Derogotory name calling aside, that's exactly it! You can believe one of
three things - Issac's people are the chosen ones of God (that's what
I believe); Ishmael's people are the chosen ones (goes again the Bible);
or that there is no such thing as a 'chosen' group or the promised land.

And I'll point out that belief in one doesn't make it fact, and we have
no proof of any. It's taken in faith.

That being said, I don't think there will be true peace there until
Christ comes back to reign.

But the problem won't solve itself over night, or even over a
generation. The start is to quiet things down. You have groups people who are mad at other groups of people because of <bad event>. They
pass that hate down to the next generation. But if that next
generation has no real reason to be mad at the other group of people,
that hate fades and they start asking "why can't we life together".

Good point. And fits US here in the USA as well!




... This tagline is freeware; future support is unavailable.
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Jeff Thiele wrote to Ron Lauzon <=-

The Middle East
will not be quiet until the antichrist makes a false peace. IMO, we should be FRIENDS with Isreal, regardless of the stand against the others that it causes... God's chosen people? Yeah, put me there too.

If you think that the Israelis can do no wrong because they're in your Holy Book, I suggest that you read that Holy Book again. From the beginning. One of the overarching themes of the Old Testament is the Israelites repeated disobedience and atonement. They repeatedly did
what was in their own best interest instead of abiding by their God's
laws and commands.

Yep! That's how Ishmael came to be! Faith in God's promises was not there!

And no, I never said they could do no wrong. "For all have sinned and
come short of the glory of God." I just meant, as a Christian, I side
with the group that God says is his chosen people, and the promised
land does indeed cover MUCH much more of what they currently have.





... Oh, I almost forgot . . . It's absolutley VITAL to insta
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On 21 May 2021, JIMMY ANDERSON said the following...

If you think that the Israelis can do no wrong because they're in you Holy Book, I suggest that you read that Holy Book again. From the beginning. One of the overarching themes of the Old Testament is the Israelites repeated disobedience and atonement. They repeatedly did what was in their own best interest instead of abiding by their God's laws and commands.

Yep! That's how Ishmael came to be! Faith in God's promises was not
there!
And no, I never said they could do no wrong. "For all have sinned and
come short of the glory of God." I just meant, as a Christian, I side
with the group that God says is his chosen people, and the promised
land does indeed cover MUCH much more of what they currently have.

They are people, just like you and I. And they are most definitely not
treating their neighbors as themselves.

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the American peo

Categorizing them all as "refugees" doesn't make them all refugees.

Trump was specifically targeting refugees.

According to Fidolibs, refugees are people who illegally sneak into the USA because we have higher wages.

We fight it as we can, where we can. Closing off entry for refugees will do nothing to combat sexual slavery.

I doubt that your victims are saying that.

are Americans who are hooked on these things. People categorized as "refugees" are bringing those items here rampantly, threatening the health of the American people.

No, they're not. Some people are, but not the refugees. Trump used the

Not a chance in hell that they're bringing drugs with them as they sneak into the USA?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 24 May 2021, Aaron Thomas said the following...

The refugees were not, and are not, a threat to the America

Categorizing them all as "refugees" doesn't make them all refuge

Trump was specifically targeting refugees.

According to Fidolibs, refugees are people who illegally sneak into the USA because we have higher wages.

I am not familiar with "Fidolibs." However, if they do not seek asylum, they are not refugees.

We fight it as we can, where we can. Closing off entry for refugees w do nothing to combat sexual slavery.

I doubt that your victims are saying that.

Doubt all you want. It means nothing without evidence.

are Americans who are hooked on these things. People categorized "refugees" are bringing those items here rampantly, threatening health of the American people.

No, they're not. Some people are, but not the refugees. Trump used th

Not a chance in hell that they're bringing drugs with them as they sneak into the USA?

Not when they turn themselves in at the first opportunity, often on the southern side of the wall. (Did you read the Texas Monthly article?)

Jeff.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to RON LAUZON <=-

But the problem won't solve itself over night, or even over a
generation. The start is to quiet things down. You have groups people who are mad at other groups of people because of <bad event>. They
pass that hate down to the next generation. But if that next
generation has no real reason to be mad at the other group of people,
that hate fades and they start asking "why can't we life together".

Good point. And fits US here in the USA as well!

Yes. For a long time, we've had peace in the U.S. between groups who were at each other's throats in other places in the world.

Then came the Marxists who messed it all up. Lefties only know how to destroy.

... Excuse me if I sound bitter....I taste that way too
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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like refugees. People who smuggle drugs and children in to the USA are n refugees. But under that guise, you can hand them your wallet and feel g about it.

My guess would be that what makes him feel most good about it is the fact that it upsets people like you. :)

I suspect most Democrat voters are trying to get back at somebody. For some, they're trying to get back at their parents who rejected their homosexuality.

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