• Re: Proton Encrypted and Private E-Mail Is a Fraud

    From Stainless Steel Rat@Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1] to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.privacy on Sunday, July 07, 2024 12:18:10
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2024 00:33:15 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
    said in Message-ID: <51806c4b1812fd6170511532a8950e63@dizum.com>:

    Encrypted mail service Proton hands suspect's personal info to local
    cops

    Infosec in brief Encrypted email service Proton Mail is in hot water
    again from some quarters, and for the same thing that earned it flak
    before: Handing user data over to law enforcement.

    Nothing new here -- in fact, the incident you're referring to is several
    years old.

    Proton, which offers several services it touts as being secure and
    safe, includes an end-to-end encrypted email product. Ostensibly
    designed for the privacy conscious, Proton say it is unable to read
    the content of email and attachments, be free of trackers and ads,
    and have the "highest standards of privacy."

    The phrase, "famous last words" comes to mind here. If Proton had just a
    copy of your PGP public key, they would be correct -- there would be no way for them to decrypt your email traffic. However, they have both halves of
    the PGP key-pair, so it is entirely within the realm of possibility that
    they could be compelled to decrypt a user's email -- it just hasn't happened yet.

    The case of Hushmail some 17 years ago proves this -- Hushmail made similar claims, and the DEA compelled Hush to decrypt the emails for a list of accounts. A DEA spokesman boasted of having received in excess of 100,000 decrypted email messages.

    Be as that may, there is still user info Proton has access to and can
    be pressured to divulge. In 2021, the Switzerland-based vendor
    provided local police with the IP address and device details of a
    netizen the cops were trying to identify. That individual a French climate activist who was already known to police was later arrested.

    Shortly after that kerfuffle, Proton removed the claim that it didn't
    track user IP addresses from its website. Proton has also previously
    been accused of offering real-time surveillance of users to
    authorities.

    No surprise here, frankly.

    In this latest instance, Proton handed over an account's recovery
    email address information to Swiss police concerning a suspect
    believed to be supporting Catalonian separatists. Spanish cops handed
    the recovery address to Apple, which was reportedly able to identify
    the individual associated with the account.

    Proton told advocacy outfit Restore Privacy it was well aware of the
    case, but its hands were tied under Swiss laws against terrorism.

    That is true of most providers, frankly -- Proton is hardly alone in this regard. The suspect was insane to use an Apple email as a recovery address.

    "Proton has minimal user information, as illustrated by the fact that
    in this case data obtained from Apple was used to identify the
    terrorism suspect," a Proton spokesperson protested. "Proton provides privacy by default and not anonymity by default because anonymity
    requires certain user actions to ensure proper OpSec, such as not
    adding your Apple account as an optional recovery method."

    They're right -- this was unbelievably stupid on the part of the suspect.

    When we reached out to Proton it directed us to a Twitter thread from
    its CEO Andy Yen, in which he says much the same.

    Again, no surprise there.

    Stainless Steel Rat

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Running Man@runningman@writeable.com to alt.privacy on Sunday, July 07, 2024 12:18:25
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On 07/07/2024 13:18 Stainless Steel Rat <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
    On Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2024 00:33:15 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
    said in Message-ID: <51806c4b1812fd6170511532a8950e63@dizum.com>:

    Encrypted mail service Proton hands suspect's personal info to local
    cops

    Infosec in brief Encrypted email service Proton Mail is in hot water
    again from some quarters, and for the same thing that earned it flak
    before: Handing user data over to law enforcement.

    Nothing new here -- in fact, the incident you're referring to is several years old.

    Proton, which offers several services it touts as being secure and
    safe, includes an end-to-end encrypted email product. Ostensibly
    designed for the privacy conscious, Proton say it is unable to read
    the content of email and attachments, be free of trackers and ads,
    and have the "highest standards of privacy."

    The phrase, "famous last words" comes to mind here. If Proton had just a copy of your PGP public key, they would be correct -- there would be no way for them to decrypt your email traffic. However, they have both halves of the PGP key-pair, so it is entirely within the realm of possibility that they could be compelled to decrypt a user's email -- it just hasn't happened yet.

    The case of Hushmail some 17 years ago proves this -- Hushmail made similar claims, and the DEA compelled Hush to decrypt the emails for a list of accounts. A DEA spokesman boasted of having received in excess of 100,000 decrypted email messages.

    Be as that may, there is still user info Proton has access to and can
    be pressured to divulge. In 2021, the Switzerland-based vendor
    provided local police with the IP address and device details of a
    netizen the cops were trying to identify. That individual a French climate >> activist who was already known to police was later arrested.

    Shortly after that kerfuffle, Proton removed the claim that it didn't
    track user IP addresses from its website. Proton has also previously
    been accused of offering real-time surveillance of users to
    authorities.

    No surprise here, frankly.

    In this latest instance, Proton handed over an account's recovery
    email address information to Swiss police concerning a suspect
    believed to be supporting Catalonian separatists. Spanish cops handed
    the recovery address to Apple, which was reportedly able to identify
    the individual associated with the account.

    Proton told advocacy outfit Restore Privacy it was well aware of the
    case, but its hands were tied under Swiss laws against terrorism.

    That is true of most providers, frankly -- Proton is hardly alone in this regard. The suspect was insane to use an Apple email as a recovery address.

    "Proton has minimal user information, as illustrated by the fact that
    in this case data obtained from Apple was used to identify the
    terrorism suspect," a Proton spokesperson protested. "Proton provides
    privacy by default and not anonymity by default because anonymity
    requires certain user actions to ensure proper OpSec, such as not
    adding your Apple account as an optional recovery method."

    They're right -- this was unbelievably stupid on the part of the suspect.

    When we reached out to Proton it directed us to a Twitter thread from
    its CEO Andy Yen, in which he says much the same.


    Anyone who believes in the security of online encrypted email services
    is a dunce.

    If you want confidentiality use PGP mail from you own computer.
    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2