• Question about Tor and it's 'onion' choice

    From karl@karl@bogus.net to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.privacy on Thursday, July 11, 2024 00:29:32
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    Why does this onion choice supposedly make Tor more secure? If a Tor
    relay point can be compromised, cannot an onion relay also? Does not
    this onion double the work of having to keep check on two types of
    relays instead of only the Tor relay network?

    I don't understand the necessity of this onion thing.

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From SEC3@admin@sec3.net to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.privacy on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 23:45:28
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On 7/10/24 18:29, karl@bogus.net wrote:
    Why does this onion choice supposedly make Tor more secure? If a Tor
    relay point can be compromised, cannot an onion relay also? Does not
    this onion double the work of having to keep check on two types of
    relays instead of only the Tor relay network?

    I don't understand the necessity of this onion thing.

    It's a user's choice whether they want to inject their remailer message
    into the remailer network via a Tor hidden service like Mixmin's

    3fd6guyxldqnjaqtfzejnjvq6bj7ilv5u7g7ovbubhwoeqhc222zvrad.onion:25

    or whether they want to inject it directly via the SMTP server of the
    entry remailer, say fleegle.mixmin.net:25

    The former method hides your IP address from the the entry remailer.

    The later method reveals your IP address to the entry remailer.
    --
    SEC3

    YAMN Help Tutorial - https://www.sec3.net/yamnhelp/

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From noreply@noreply@mixmin.net to alt.privacy on Thursday, July 11, 2024 00:48:39
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 00:29:32 +0200 (CEST), karl@bogus.net wrote:
    Why does this onion choice supposedly make Tor more secure? If a Tor
    relay point can be compromised, cannot an onion relay also? Does not
    this onion double the work of having to keep check on two types of
    relays instead of only the Tor relay network?
    I don't understand the necessity of this onion thing.

    The Tor Project website (https://www.torproject.org) is the best place
    to start (but Windows 7/8 users will soon be looking for alternatives);
    Omnimix is very well maintained, including its built-in customized Tor
    feature, and it works great on common Windows versions (from XP to 11); Omnimix' Tor also works as a proxy with most popular web browsers, e.g.

    Firefox Browser v128.0 (64-bit):
    Tools > Settings > General > Network Settings >
    Settings... > Manual proxy configuration:
    SOCKS Host: 127.0.0.1
    Port: 9150
    SOCKS v5
    Proxy DNS when using SOCKS v5

    Pale Moon v33.2 (64-bit):
    Preferences > Advanced > Network > Connection >
    Settings > Manual proxy configuration:
    SOCKS Host: 127.0.0.1
    Port: 9054
    SOCKS v5

    https://www.danner-net.de/omom/tutortor.htm
    OmniMix * Tutorial * Tor PreviousTopNext
    Tor is a real-time onion-routing system, which thereby allows anonymous >Internet communication without any delay. That makes it useful to hide
    your identity especially while surfing the web or using other services,
    that aren't available by mail. But the lack of latency on the other
    hand substantially increases the chances for an adversary. So for
    anonymous mailing setting up a free email account through Tor is only
    the second best solution.
    Nevertheless OmniMix enables you to benefit from Tor with various kinds
    of communication, which require immediate response, e.g. the retrieval
    of remailer statistics or a stealthy Mixmaster packet delivery to entry >remailers. The program is preconfigured to run its own Tor instance and
    use that for every Internet connection it establishes. You have to read
    the 'Configuration' chapter only when problems arise or in case you're >interested in what's going on 'under the hood'.
    But there are further services provided by OmniMix based on Tor, which
    you can read about in the 'TorPlus' chapter. .../omom/tutortorplus.htm >Configuration
    https://www.danner-net.de/omom/tutortorconfig.htm
    OmniMix * Tutorial * Tor * Configuration PreviousTopNext
    In order to hide your communication with the Mixmaster network, OmniMix
    has to bypass your ISP's mail server and connect directly to the entry >remailer via the Tor network. Provided that Tor is installed on your
    system and running, activate the routing through Tor for the specific
    task by specifying the SOCKS protocol, which OmniMix has to use for the >communication with Tor.
    E.g. to access the 'Anon Mail Host' by selecting SOCKS version 4, you
    have to enter the IP address of the remailer into the 'Host' field of
    the 'Anon Mail S(MTP)' tab, version 4a requires the host name, whereas
    with version 5 you have the choice. To access a hidden service, enter
    its name (ending with '.onion') as the remailer's host name. Since in
    this case Tor has to resolve a name, the protocol alternatives are only
    SOCKS version 4a and 5.
    Like Vidalia, the controller software that comes with Tor, OmniMix is
    capable of interacting with Tor in many ways, launching, remote
    controlling and shutting down the Tor instance it uses. That's what the >options under the 'Tor' tab are designated for.
    There's always a risk that the Tor connections of different
    simultaneous tasks use the same routing up to the exit node, which may
    allow an adversary sitting there to figure out relations. Therefore,
    even if you already use Tor with your webbrowser, it's advisable to
    separate communication by running another instance for exclusive access
    by OmniMix, which is easy to achieve:
    At the 'Run' tab set the paths to Tor ('tor.exe') and its configuration
    file ('torrc'). With a 'Start' button click OmniMix launches that Tor >executable and, with 'Autoconnect' at the 'Control' tab activated, >establishes a connection with its control port. After clicking
    'Shutdown' OmniMix orders Tor to shut down, then closes the control
    port connection. To start and stop Tor automatically in conjunction
    with OmniMix itself activate 'Autostart' and 'Autoclose'.
    At least for your first experiments it can be wise to check the 'Tor
    Window' box, which opens a command window when starting Tor, showing
    the logged data and allowing to terminate the program by closing this
    window instead of having to end the 'tor.exe' process from within the
    Windows Task Manager. Finally when Tor runs and connects correctly
    uncheck the box to get rid of that window.
    With 'Check DNS' it's possible to recognize unsecure domain name
    resolutions, as it makes Tor generate a notice-level event for each >connection to the SOCKS port, indicating whether the request uses a
    domain name or an IP address. Thereby it allows to detect the
    revelation of communication targets via unsecured DNS requests. If
    Tor gets an IP address it may have been resolved with a direct DNS
    server access bypassing the Tor gateway, which means that your target
    address has become public.
    A message like the following appearing in the Tor log therefore
    indicates, that everything is all right:
    17:01:25.062 650 NOTICE Your application (using socks5 to port 25)
    instructed Tor to take care of the DNS resolution itself if necessary.
    This is good.
    This option only takes effect with Tor instances newly launched by
    OmniMix.
    When Tor is started and a control port connection established the
    color of both Tor activity scales in the indicator field change from
    grey to yellow. If that doesn't happen first check whether a new
    'tor.exe' entry shows up in the Processes list of the Windows Task
    Manager. Furthermore look whether the paths to Tor and its
    configuration file are set correctly and whether SOCKS and control
    port through which Tor tries to communicate are available and not
    already occupied by another application.
    Setting 'Host', the address of the Tor instance, and 'Port', its
    SOCKS port, at the 'Config' tab is mandatory to allow OmniMix to
    route external connections with servers on the Internet through
    Tor's anonymizing SOCKS proxy service. The Tor SOCKS port number of
    the OmniMix system defaults to 9054, as 9050 and 9150 are usually
    occupied by a standard Tor installation resp. the Tor Browser. Shut
    down Tor before changing the port number.
    Using the 'Host' location from the 'Config' tab, the 'Port'
    parameter at the 'Control' tab is required to connect with Tor's
    control port in order to send commands and retrieve status data,
    which then are displayed at the 'Tor' list. The Tor control port
    number of the OmniMix system defaults to 9055, as 9051 and 9151 are
    usually occupied by a standard Tor installation resp. the Tor
    Browser. Shut down Tor before changing the port number.
    To protect Tor's control port from unauthorized access there are
    two authentication methods, both supported by OmniMix. Switching
    between them requires editing the 'torrc' configuration file
    manually.
    If you intend to control Tor from different computers, 'Password' >authentication would be the right choice. At the 'ConTor' tab
    select 'Password' authentication and enter your password, e.g.
    'my_password'. Be aware, that leading and trailing spaces are
    relevant! Then at the command prompt within the Tor directory
    calculate the hash value for the chosen password with the command >g:\Programs\OmniMix\tor>tor --hash-password my_password
    Oct 06 22:36:45.707 [notice] Tor v0.1.1.23. This is experimental
    software. Do not rely on it for strong anonymity. >16:56DDB73813D8F525606245C49111696B791B87D7DCEFF575083DB78D31
    Finally, to enable Tor to check, whether the sent password is
    correct, add the 'HashedControlPassword' option with the
    resulting hash code to the 'torrc' file
    HashedControlPassword >16:56DDB73813D8F525606245C49111696B791B87D7DCEFF575083DB78D31
    The alternative to a constant password would be the 'Cookie'
    authentication method, where at each launch Tor generates a file
    named 'control_auth_cookie' anew within its data directory
    containing 32 random bytes. Those bytes then have to be read by
    the controller application in order to use them for
    authentication. That's why apart from the activation of that
    method by adding
    CookieAuthentication 1
    to the 'torrc' file, the location of this file has to be set by
    means of the 'Cookie' file selector.
    Cookie authentication, which usually is limited to local
    controllers, as it requires access to a file in Tor's data
    folder, is the default method when using the OmniMix system's
    Tor instance.
    There are further torrc parameters relevant for anonymity
    reasons:
    *MaxCircuitDirtiness defines for how long (in seconds) Tor
    continues reusing a circuit for new
    connections.
    'MaxCircuitDirtiness 0' makes Tor set
    up a new route for every connection
    request.
    *NewCircuitPeriod determines how often (in seconds) Tor
    retries making new circuits if current
    ones are dirty, which means already used.
    At the 'Command' tab you find all instruments to influence a running
    Tor instance, but for sending commands a connection to the control
    port of the respective Tor instance has to be established.
    At the 'Events' list select the data you want to be logged at the 'Tor'
    tab. If you're connected press 'Set' to transfer the new settings to
    Tor. With 'Off' no more data are listed. That's advisable in particular
    for the period you request certain data from Tor by selecting an item
    from the dropdown list and pressing the 'Info' button. Otherwise you'd
    get a mixture of Tor events and the specific data you requested.
    Once connected
    *Info requests the information specified by the pulldown menu
    adjacent to it.
    *NewNym initiates the switch to a clean server circuit. This is a
    secure way to use separate Tor circuits for different jobs
    that are done one after another.
    The available 'Info' data are
    *Version The version of the server's software, including the
    name of the software.
    *Config location The path to Tor's configuration file 'torrc' on your
    disc.
    *Network Status A short space-separated listing of all router
    identities.
    *Known Routers A detailed listing of all routers known to Tor and
    their characteristics.
    *IP Address The best guess at our external IP address.
    *Circuit Status Information about the circuits built.
    *Stream Status Information about the stream status.
    *Connection Status Information about the onion routing connection
    status.
    *Entry Guards Listing of the currently chosen entry guards.
    A smart way to access the OmniMix system at home from throughout the
    Internet are Tor Hidden Services. You don't have to know the server's
    IP address and the communication is completely hidden and end-to-end >encrypted, as it never leaves the Tor network.
    The 'Hidden' tab allows to attach four local server ports, which don't >necessarily have to be offered by OmniMix, to the Tor network, making
    them available from the Internet.
    For each of the local services you intend to offer you just have to
    check the 'Active' box, enter the port number under which it has to be >accessed from the Internet at 'Port Ext', the local IP address of your >service at 'Address Int' and its local port number at 'Port Int'. To
    install the Hidden Service Tor finally has to be restarted. It now >initializes the Hidden Service by creating an encryption key associated
    with a random .onion address, the future address of your Hidden Service. >These credentials are stored in the files 'hostname' and 'private_key', >located in the folder defined in the 'Hidden Svc Dir' field. You may
    backup them in a safe place.
    Instead of reading your Hidden Service's .onion address directly from
    the 'hostname' file you can also get it from the 'Data' tab. With a
    click on 'Update' OmniMix not only requests the Hidden Service's address, >which you can copy to the clipboard by using the '*' button. It also
    tries to retrieve Tor's current SOCKS and control port number as well as,
    if available, the WAN IP address of Tor's host computer. By the way, the >latter offers OmniMix a great opportunity to replace external DDNS
    services, which is explained in the 'TorIP' chapter.
    If you want to change the .onion address because you don't like the
    randomly created term, or you need a new one for a different task, press
    the '-' button next to the 'HS Address' field and restart Tor. But keep
    in mind, only backing up the files 'hostname' and 'private_key' from the >Hidden Service directory before they are removed with a reset allows you
    to reactivate the old address some day.
    [end quote]

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From karl@karl@bogus.net to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.privacy on Thursday, July 11, 2024 04:05:27
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On Wed, 10 Jul 24 23:45:28 UTC, you wrote:

    On 7/10/24 18:29, karl@bogus.net wrote:
    Why does this onion choice supposedly make Tor more secure? If a Tor
    relay point can be compromised, cannot an onion relay also? Does not
    this onion double the work of having to keep check on two types of
    relays instead of only the Tor relay network?

    I don't understand the necessity of this onion thing.

    It's a user's choice whether they want to inject their remailer message
    into the remailer network via a Tor hidden service like Mixmin's

    3fd6guyxldqnjaqtfzejnjvq6bj7ilv5u7g7ovbubhwoeqhc222zvrad.onion:25

    or whether they want to inject it directly via the SMTP server of the
    entry remailer, say fleegle.mixmin.net:25

    The former method hides your IP address from the the entry remailer.

    The later method reveals your IP address to the entry remailer.


    In other words, all my non-onion Host Manger entries in QSL will not
    hide my IP. Somewhere, years back, I thought that was the reason for
    Tor being written.

    So, all Tor does is function somewhat like a VPN. It protects my IP
    from being known by the sites I visit, plus from a site trying to
    download something to me which I didn't ask for - If I don't screw up
    Tor's basic settings.

    Finally, Tor's onion choice does hide my IP from the entry remailer.
    (?)
    --
    SEC3

    YAMN Help Tutorial - https://www.sec3.net/yamnhelp/

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From Yamn Remailer@noreply@mixmin.net to alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server on Thursday, July 11, 2024 08:13:58
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:

    On 7/10/24 18:29, karl@bogus.net wrote:
    Why does this onion choice supposedly make Tor more secure? If a Tor
    relay point can be compromised, cannot an onion relay also? Does not
    this onion double the work of having to keep check on two types of
    relays instead of only the Tor relay network?

    I don't understand the necessity of this onion thing.

    It's a user's choice whether they want to inject their remailer message
    into the remailer network via a Tor hidden service like Mixmin's

    3fd6guyxldqnjaqtfzejnjvq6bj7ilv5u7g7ovbubhwoeqhc222zvrad.onion:25

    or whether they want to inject it directly via the SMTP server of the
    entry remailer, say fleegle.mixmin.net:25

    The former method hides your IP address from the the entry remailer.

    The later method reveals your IP address to the entry remailer.

    Nope, that's wrong. Your address is NEVER revealed!

    Tor always hides the client's IP address.

    What a .onion service does is to implement another anonymizing circuit
    from the server to a rendezvous point with the end of the client's
    circuit. That provides anonymity to the server as well, which thereby
    then offers a "hidden service". For the client it additionally means,
    that data no longer leave the Tor network on their way to the server, as
    there no longer is an 3rd party exit node, which connects with the
    server over the open Internet.

    HTH

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From Yamn Remailer@noreply@mixmin.net to alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server on Friday, July 12, 2024 23:05:39
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 08:13:58 +0100, you wrote:

    Tor always hides the client's IP address.

    That's what I thought I had read years ago. I cannot find any
    reference to this question these days. It disturbs me that you say
    SEC3 is mistaken. That person KNOWS what they are talking
    about...confusing.

    I joined the Tor forum to get the question answered by some 'expert'.
    That web site is horrible concoction of everything some jackass
    techie thought he had to put into one page. It is a MESS. If I get an
    answer to the question, I'll post it here - if I get an answer. From
    what I went through trying to sign up and then post, I have little
    hope for that site. I can't believe what a mess it is. (Don't bother >telling me how great and informative it is. I ain't going to answer
    any trolls.)

    There are tons of videos on YouTube explaining the Tor network's onion
    routing.

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From karl@karl@bogus.com to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.privacy on Saturday, July 13, 2024 02:51:51
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 01:11:32 +0200 (CEST), you wrote:

    On 7/12/2024 3:11 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:

    Flawed question indicating that you know nothing about either and
    can't resolve the use thereof.

    The OP did a good job explaining it to you. It's not their fault
    your ears hiss when you walk.


    Correct. Spot on.

    The OP is so dense that he couldn't pour warm piss out of a boot
    if the instructions were written on the heel.

    What chaps my ass, is that he's using free software, and comes here
    DEMANDING free support and gets surly when he doesn't get the
    answer he wants to hear. Very arrogant tone.

    He can take a moment of all his free time and go fuck himself.

    Doesn't it get boring pretending to be six different posters? Get
    offline and go back to beating your wife and dog. Or did you end up
    killing the mutt and putting your wife in hospital with your sick
    anger? Is that why you have such free time online?

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
  • From karl@karl@bogus.com to alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.privacy on Saturday, July 13, 2024 04:09:04
    From Newsgroup: alt.privacy

    On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 23:05:39 +0100, you wrote:

    Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 08:13:58 +0100, you wrote:

    Tor always hides the client's IP address.

    That's what I thought I had read years ago. I cannot find any
    reference to this question these days. It disturbs me that you say
    SEC3 is mistaken. That person KNOWS what they are talking >about...confusing.

    I joined the Tor forum to get the question answered by some 'expert'.
    That web site is horrible concoction of everything some jackass
    techie thought he had to put into one page. It is a MESS. If I get an >answer to the question, I'll post it here - if I get an answer. From
    what I went through trying to sign up and then post, I have little
    hope for that site. I can't believe what a mess it is. (Don't bother >telling me how great and informative it is. I ain't going to answer
    any trolls.)

    There are tons of videos on YouTube explaining the Tor network's onion routing.

    I'm not interested in the onion routing. I do believe that it does
    what everyone says it does. What I'm asking is does using QSL with
    the Tor proxy - without any onion flavoring, still hide my IP from
    the entry remailer? I read years ago that this was the fact.

    I have the question posted in the Tor forum. Let's see what answer I
    get there. Unfortunately, that forum is ridiculous. You have a
    waiting period before your registration is accepted. You have a
    waiting period for your post to be "authorized".. Then you have a
    waiting period for any answer to be checked out. The entire site is ridiculous.
    =====
    All remailers except Yamn are killfiled

    --- Synchronet 3.21e-Win32 NewsLink 1.2