From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


Bill Knight <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote in message news:WgZPa.14758$C07.13925@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
- snip project hacking PC into IIe case while retaining IIe motherboard -

Interesting project. I like many here would love to have an Apple II with
the power of a modern PC. You seem to be doing this literally. ;) May I ask
if this is to be a conversation piece or a workhorse? If it's to be used regularly reliability is a major concern. The biggest issue that pops into
my mind is heat. The idea of an Athlon, Nividia GPU and a IIe sharing a
small poor ventilated case seems to work against that. Fully loaded IIe's
are known to be toasty and many people ran/run them with their lids off.
Your proposed design would likely be much warmer. In order too cool it adequately I imagine you'd have to install multiple fans virtually requiring you cut holes in the IIe case, deterring from the visual appeal of the hack.
To avoid that, why not dump the IIe components and use an emulator in there place?

If your heart is set on have a dual architecture machine, why not try
swapping one or both of the motherboards for more compact/cooler running variants? A IIe case is vertically challenged so you'll have a rough time putting any expansion cards in even with a 90 degree adapter. How about
using a IIc motherboard in place of the IIe's. It has all the standard IIe peripherals built in and has a fairly small footprint. You could jam the IIc power supply into the case and not have to worry about monkeying around with
a PC powersupply. For the PC end have you considered use one of the VIA mini-itx (smaller than micro-atx) boards ? They're cheap integrated PC compatible motherboards with CPU that run far cooler and use much less power than Pentiums or Athlons. There's a whole community jamming them into all
sorts of interesting things www.mini-itx.com. It seems feasible that a combination like this could live together peacefully in the same case.

Just some thoughts.

- Liam


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hey all, I'm embarking on an interesting mod project with one of my old
Apple IIe machines. My goal is to fit a decent PC inside it (making use of a microATX Nforce 2 motherboard and AMD processor) while simultaneously
retaining the Apple IIe functionality. Basically what I'm going to do is
this:
1. Mount the new motherboard on top of the Apple IIe board. Issues: need to find a way to mount the memory expansion and disk controller from the IIe at
a 90* angle. I have seen this for AGP cards, so some creating soldering
should work.
2. Wire Apple IIe keyboard to ps/2, but include switch to change input from going to ps/2 port to going to Apple IIe. Issues: either need to create a circuit to translate signals along the Apple IIe ribbon cable to something
the ps/2 port can handle OR solder the keys from the Apple IIe keyboard to a ps/2 controller from an IBM keyboard (and then have a switch to cut off
either the ps/2 output or Apple IIe output so that its either bypassing the traces and going to the IBM vs. bypassing IBM and using original traces & ribbon cable to go with Apple IIe.
3. Mount a 2u 300watt PSU, which is close enough in size to the original:
apple IIe PSU:
9.75" long, 3.5" wide, 2.25" tall
2u:
8.2" long, 4" wide, 2.8" tall
This should work in powering the IIe fine, since all it needs is a series of 12v and 5v inputs (can pull from a drive attachment on the 2u)
4. Mount CDROM in external IIe disk drive enclosure. I just gutted a broken
one and test fitted my slot loading CDROM, but it looks like the CDROM is
just a bit too long to fit in with the original floppy faceplate (I was
hoping to keep that and just stick the CD through the slot for the disk... I may be able to take the CDROM apart and shave down the length a bit, other option is a laptop CDROM drive, but as far as I can tell none are slot
loading. Maybe able to make floppy front swing up like a door...). I will
use a custom ribbon cable of ~ 50 wires and a thick gauge wire to provide
the 40 IDE required signals, the +/-12 and +/- 5 volt lines for power, and
the R, L and Ground for audio through one cable, preserving original look.
5. Hard drive will be mounted inside, either below keyboard or above PSU. PC speakers will be taken apart and mounted inside. PC fans will be mounted at angles to provide airflow through existing ventilation holes on sides. A SLK-800 copper CPU heatsink will be used, but with the fan blowing air
through it sideways (no vertical clearance).
6. Apple IIe motherboard will be moved back some, and new outputs fashioned, with switch to go between PC output and IIe


Yes this is ambitious, and yes I am crazy :-)
BUT... If anyone has any suggestions, or more importantly, ideas as to how
to do some of this (especially concerning the switching between IIe and PC mode, and other electrical things) feel free to comment...Preliminary
fitting looks good


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


"Bill Knight" <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote

Hi, Bill

I think that your idea is indeed an ambitious one but my first thought,
while reading your post, was if you can do all of that, wouldn't it be great
if you could develop an ethernet card for a IIe that would actually work.
The LanceGS might work, in theory but there are no drivers for it. If you
could develop an ethernet card and driver for the IIe, you would be quite
the hero in my book.

Either way, good luck on your plan, and at least think about the IIe
ethernet card. If you could do one, you could easily do the other.


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hi. That sounds like an ambitious project. How are you going to get an
Apple IIe motherboard to turn on with an ATX "soft power" power supply?
Besides that, you are looking at major heat issues.

Hope this helps,
Jason Whorton



"Bill Knight" <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote in message news:WgZPa.14758$C07.13925@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Hey all, I'm embarking on an interesting mod project with one of my

old

Apple IIe machines. My goal is to fit a decent PC inside it (making

use of a

microATX Nforce 2 motherboard and AMD processor) while simultaneously retaining the Apple IIe functionality. Basically what I'm going to do

is

this:
1. Mount the new motherboard on top of the Apple IIe board. Issues:

need to

find a way to mount the memory expansion and disk controller from the

IIe at

a 90* angle. I have seen this for AGP cards, so some creating

soldering

should work.
2. Wire Apple IIe keyboard to ps/2, but include switch to change input

from

going to ps/2 port to going to Apple IIe. Issues: either need to

create a

circuit to translate signals along the Apple IIe ribbon cable to

something

the ps/2 port can handle OR solder the keys from the Apple IIe

keyboard to a

ps/2 controller from an IBM keyboard (and then have a switch to cut

off

either the ps/2 output or Apple IIe output so that its either

bypassing the

traces and going to the IBM vs. bypassing IBM and using original

traces &

ribbon cable to go with Apple IIe.
3. Mount a 2u 300watt PSU, which is close enough in size to the

original:

apple IIe PSU:
9.75" long, 3.5" wide, 2.25" tall
2u:
8.2" long, 4" wide, 2.8" tall
This should work in powering the IIe fine, since all it needs is a

series of

12v and 5v inputs (can pull from a drive attachment on the 2u)
4. Mount CDROM in external IIe disk drive enclosure. I just gutted a

broken

one and test fitted my slot loading CDROM, but it looks like the CDROM

is

just a bit too long to fit in with the original floppy faceplate (I

was

hoping to keep that and just stick the CD through the slot for the

disk... I

may be able to take the CDROM apart and shave down the length a bit,

other

option is a laptop CDROM drive, but as far as I can tell none are slot loading. Maybe able to make floppy front swing up like a door...). I

will

use a custom ribbon cable of ~ 50 wires and a thick gauge wire to

provide

the 40 IDE required signals, the +/-12 and +/- 5 volt lines for power,

and

the R, L and Ground for audio through one cable, preserving original

look.

5. Hard drive will be mounted inside, either below keyboard or above

PSU. PC

speakers will be taken apart and mounted inside. PC fans will be

mounted at

angles to provide airflow through existing ventilation holes on sides.

A

SLK-800 copper CPU heatsink will be used, but with the fan blowing air through it sideways (no vertical clearance).
6. Apple IIe motherboard will be moved back some, and new outputs

fashioned,

with switch to go between PC output and IIe

Yes this is ambitious, and yes I am crazy :-)
BUT... If anyone has any suggestions, or more importantly, ideas as to

how

to do some of this (especially concerning the switching between IIe

and PC

mode, and other electrical things) feel free to comment...Preliminary
fitting looks good

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

"Liam Busey" <buseyl@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<vh1jegcjesn17a@corp.supernews.com>...

Bill Knight <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote in message news:WgZPa.14758$C07.13925@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
- snip project hacking PC into IIe case while retaining IIe motherboard -

Interesting project. I like many here would love to have an Apple II with
the power of a modern PC. You seem to be doing this literally. ;) May I ask if this is to be a conversation piece or a workhorse? If it's to be used regularly reliability is a major concern. The biggest issue that pops into
my mind is heat. The idea of an Athlon, Nividia GPU and a IIe sharing a
small poor ventilated case seems to work against that. Fully loaded IIe's
are known to be toasty and many people ran/run them with their lids off.
Your proposed design would likely be much warmer. In order too cool it adequately I imagine you'd have to install multiple fans virtually requiring you cut holes in the IIe case, deterring from the visual appeal of the hack. To avoid that, why not dump the IIe components and use an emulator in there place?

If you find a way to connect //e components to the PC, I'd be willing
to customize "my" emulator for your hardware.

-uso.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Well, I don't have a IIgs and I do have 2 IIes so I figured I'd use what I have. Plus I have lots of memories with the IIe and actually have never used
a IIgs.
"Michael Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:KAmQa.8408$qn1.6396@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...

Bill Knight <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote in message news:WgZPa.14758$C07.13925@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Hey all, I'm embarking on an interesting mod project with one of my old Apple IIe machines. My goal is to fit a decent PC inside it (making use

of

a

microATX Nforce 2 motherboard and AMD processor) while simultaneously retaining the Apple IIe functionality.

...

Yes this is ambitious, and yes I am crazy :-)
BUT... If anyone has any suggestions, or more importantly, ideas as to

how

to do some of this (especially concerning the switching between IIe and

PC

mode, and other electrical things) feel free to comment...Preliminary fitting looks good

What about combining an Apple IIgs with a Mac instead? I think it would

be

easier to share ADB peripherals since both are wired for ADB, easier to
share SCSI peripherals since both are wired for SCSI, easier to interface
the two via network standards such as Appletalk/Localtalk, etc. A person could even use a Mac TCP/IP stack for ethernet.... :-)

- Mike

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

I was thinking of having the PC part act as the main power controller, and
hide a small momentary button so that the motherboard will get its power on signal. Then once that happens the powersupply will fire up and the IIe will boot.

"Jason Whorton" <jason at microxl.com> wrote in message news:vh215b94mf5g01@corp.supernews.com...

Hi. That sounds like an ambitious project. How are you going to get an Apple IIe motherboard to turn on with an ATX "soft power" power supply? Besides that, you are looking at major heat issues.

Hope this helps,
Jason Whorton

"Bill Knight" <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote in message news:WgZPa.14758$C07.13925@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Hey all, I'm embarking on an interesting mod project with one of my

old

Apple IIe machines. My goal is to fit a decent PC inside it (making

use of a

microATX Nforce 2 motherboard and AMD processor) while simultaneously retaining the Apple IIe functionality. Basically what I'm going to do

is

this:
1. Mount the new motherboard on top of the Apple IIe board. Issues:

need to

find a way to mount the memory expansion and disk controller from the

IIe at

a 90* angle. I have seen this for AGP cards, so some creating

soldering

should work.
2. Wire Apple IIe keyboard to ps/2, but include switch to change input

from

going to ps/2 port to going to Apple IIe. Issues: either need to

create a

circuit to translate signals along the Apple IIe ribbon cable to

something

the ps/2 port can handle OR solder the keys from the Apple IIe

keyboard to a

ps/2 controller from an IBM keyboard (and then have a switch to cut

off

either the ps/2 output or Apple IIe output so that its either

bypassing the

traces and going to the IBM vs. bypassing IBM and using original

traces &

ribbon cable to go with Apple IIe.
3. Mount a 2u 300watt PSU, which is close enough in size to the

original:

apple IIe PSU:
9.75" long, 3.5" wide, 2.25" tall
2u:
8.2" long, 4" wide, 2.8" tall
This should work in powering the IIe fine, since all it needs is a

series of

12v and 5v inputs (can pull from a drive attachment on the 2u)
4. Mount CDROM in external IIe disk drive enclosure. I just gutted a

broken

one and test fitted my slot loading CDROM, but it looks like the CDROM

is

just a bit too long to fit in with the original floppy faceplate (I

was

hoping to keep that and just stick the CD through the slot for the

disk... I

may be able to take the CDROM apart and shave down the length a bit,

other

option is a laptop CDROM drive, but as far as I can tell none are slot loading. Maybe able to make floppy front swing up like a door...). I

will

use a custom ribbon cable of ~ 50 wires and a thick gauge wire to

provide

the 40 IDE required signals, the +/-12 and +/- 5 volt lines for power,

and

the R, L and Ground for audio through one cable, preserving original

look.

5. Hard drive will be mounted inside, either below keyboard or above

PSU. PC

speakers will be taken apart and mounted inside. PC fans will be

mounted at

angles to provide airflow through existing ventilation holes on sides.

A

SLK-800 copper CPU heatsink will be used, but with the fan blowing air through it sideways (no vertical clearance).
6. Apple IIe motherboard will be moved back some, and new outputs

fashioned,

with switch to go between PC output and IIe

Yes this is ambitious, and yes I am crazy :-)
BUT... If anyone has any suggestions, or more importantly, ideas as to

how

to do some of this (especially concerning the switching between IIe

and PC

mode, and other electrical things) feel free to comment...Preliminary fitting looks good

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Well my original idea was to have just a new PC inside an Apple IIe case,
but then I thought that it would certainly be cool to have dual... I never thought about the IIc motherboard, I will look into that. I was trying to figure out if there was a smaller variant (the thought also crossed my mind
to see how hard it would be to mod a Mac LC Apple IIe PDS card). It may well turn out that the dual computer idea will not work, if so then I will scrap
the IIe part and just use the new PC with an emulator.

I looked into the mini-itx epia boards, but decided that I wanted a little
more oomph, plus I already have a lot of Athlon compatible stuff (heatsinks, memory, and probably a 1800+ CPU if I decide to upgrade my main computer
soon), plus the Nforce 2 platform provides fairly powerful graphics, sound,
and LAN all onboard, removing the need to have expansion cards, 90* adaptors and such.

As far as cooling goes, I was considering making some brackets that sorta
look like this:
\
|
-
(sorry that looks like crap, but basically it attaches on the base, goes up like 3" and then angles in, then I could mount a fan at an angle to pull air
in from one side on the top ventilation holes, then do the same deal on the other side except exhausting. It looks like a couple 60mm case fans would
work here. I might have to cut some interior plastic [like the sides of the hole for the top lid, they stick down like an inch or so and would impede airflow.])


"Liam Busey" <buseyl@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:vh1jegcjesn17a@corp.supernews.com...

Bill Knight <admin@ghettogamer.com> wrote in message news:WgZPa.14758$C07.13925@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
- snip project hacking PC into IIe case while retaining IIe motherboard -

Interesting project. I like many here would love to have an Apple II with
the power of a modern PC. You seem to be doing this literally. ;) May I

ask

if this is to be a conversation piece or a workhorse? If it's to be used regularly reliability is a major concern. The biggest issue that pops into
my mind is heat. The idea of an Athlon, Nividia GPU and a IIe sharing a
small poor ventilated case seems to work against that. Fully loaded IIe's
are known to be toasty and many people ran/run them with their lids off.
Your proposed design would likely be much warmer. In order too cool it adequately I imagine you'd have to install multiple fans virtually

requiring

you cut holes in the IIe case, deterring from the visual appeal of the

hack.

To avoid that, why not dump the IIe components and use an emulator in

there

place?

If your heart is set on have a dual architecture machine, why not try swapping one or both of the motherboards for more compact/cooler running variants? A IIe case is vertically challenged so you'll have a rough time putting any expansion cards in even with a 90 degree adapter. How about
using a IIc motherboard in place of the IIe's. It has all the standard IIe peripherals built in and has a fairly small footprint. You could jam the

IIc

power supply into the case and not have to worry about monkeying around

with

a PC powersupply. For the PC end have you considered use one of the VIA mini-itx (smaller than micro-atx) boards ? They're cheap integrated PC compatible motherboards with CPU that run far cooler and use much less

power

than Pentiums or Athlons. There's a whole community jamming them into all sorts of interesting things www.mini-itx.com. It seems feasible that a combination like this could live together peacefully in the same case.

Just some thoughts.

- Liam

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Bill,
My advice is to use an external Bugg Power Supply and contact it's creator, Dr. Stephen Buggie. The Bugg PS will solve several of your design challenges: A. Heat build up from PS is eliminated
B. Steve's PS already can come to operate one, two and even three Apple II computers of //e or IIGS configurations, so an Apple //e-IBM hybrid seems doable. I use one that is in excess of 250 watts.
C. The removal of the internal PS frees up a lot of space and this can resolve much of your card problem:
1. portions of the left internal rail that support the //e's lid can be trimmed away and allow four new slot (salvaged from a non-working Apple ][) to be put in the PS's old area. Move the motherboard to the right a bit, and you should be able to make room for five new slots. These can be connected to whichever slots you want on the MB by soldering connections on the underside of the MB, or using bits of cannibalized cards to make short inserts in the topside of the MB's slots. Trim the right rail and you can also free up slot 7 easily,
OR
2. simply move the MB to the left. With the PS gone and the lid rails trimmed, there's room for the memory card and slots 1-4. Let's see, a 1 meg memory card, S1=printer card, S2=hard drive, S3=accelerator/Quickie Scanner/Echo/etc., S4=mouse*.

Either way, your 90-degree angled slot adapters could be angle in opposite directions to allow two cards to lay flat across the MB:

||||| --,,-- |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
01256 34 7

* The new PS/2 MouseCard Adapter was just released (I'm demoing it at KansasFest next week.), so with a radio controlled wireless mouse and two receivers (one connected the PS/2 MouseCard Adapter and Apple MouseCard, and the other connected to the IBM mouse port), you could use a single mouse, like your single keyboard, to operate both computers--you could leave them both on the same operational frequency channels so the use of the mouse would be seamless!
][--JaY

BTW, did I miss it, or have you addressed the monitor question?
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113