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  • 3.5 drive on II+

    From Bill Garber@willy46pa@comcast.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Monday, July 14, 2003 03:42:42
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


    Hi,

    I sold my UDC and thought I could use the UniDisk 3.5"
    drive on the II+, but it doesn't work. Is that the only controller
    that will work? This sucks, coz someone beat me out of a UDC
    on eBay. You know who you are Michael. Oops, sorry. Anyway,
    I need a solution to this dilemma. I'll even buy it from you Mike.

    Thanks,

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa@comcast.net



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  • From Wayne Stewart@waynes@telus.dotnet to comp.sys.apple2 on Monday, July 14, 2003 15:01:34
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



    Bill Garber wrote:
    Hi,

    I sold my UDC and thought I could use the UniDisk 3.5"
    drive on the II+, but it doesn't work. Is that the only controller
    that will work? This sucks, coz someone beat me out of a UDC
    on eBay. You know who you are Michael. Oops, sorry. Anyway,
    I need a solution to this dilemma. I'll even buy it from you Mike.

    Thanks,

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa@comcast.net

    You can use the 3.5" UniDisk on the II+. What you can't do is
    auto-boot off one. To boot off one you need to do something like
    going into basic and typing PR#x. I'm currently using a 3.5"
    UniDisk on an Integer basic II.


    Wayne

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  • From Patrick Schaefer@PSchaefer@epost.de to comp.sys.apple2 on Monday, July 14, 2003 18:20:45
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Wayne Stewart schrieb:

    You can use the 3.5" UniDisk on the II+. What you can't do is
    auto-boot off one. To boot off one you need to do something like
    going into basic and typing PR#x. I'm currently using a 3.5"
    UniDisk on an Integer basic II.

    How did you connect it, if not to an UDC? To a Disk II controller card?

    And which capacity do you get? 35 tracks with 16 sectors?


    Patrick
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  • From markREMOVE@markREMOVE@syndicomm.com (Mark Percival) to comp.sys.apple2 on Monday, July 14, 2003 23:32:48
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:42:42 -0400, "Bill Garber"
    <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    I sold my UDC and thought I could use the UniDisk 3.5"
    drive on the II+, but it doesn't work. Is that the only controller
    that will work?

    A "Apple 3.5 floppy disk controller card" (aka Liron card) will work.

    A Superdrive card *might* work. I seem to recall someone saying it
    did on a II plus.

    Mark R. Percival - RTC Host - Syndicomm Online Apple II Forum
    "Midweek Madness!" Every Wednesday Night : 7:00 PM - 9:00 PM Pacific Time

    http://www.syndicomm.com
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  • From Don Bruder@dakidd@sonic.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 06:40:23
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    In article <lUMQa.2306$r8.884@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
    "Michael Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote:

    Bill Garber <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message news:4kqdnU9_AeOVF46iXTWJhQ@comcast.com...
    "Mark Percival" <markREMOVE@syndicomm.com> wrote in message news:d0t6hvg0tf37450rcl88u9gd6qvpsq3ke7@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:42:42 -0400, "Bill Garber"
    <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    A "Apple 3.5 floppy disk controller card" (aka Liron card) will work.

    A Superdrive card *might* work. I seem to recall someone saying it
    did on a II plus.

    I tried both, and both crash into the monitor on attempt at access.

    As a troubleshooting step, it would be helpful to know if the card/drive setup works on the enhanced IIe, but not an unenhanced IIe. The drive card firmware may include 65c02 instructions that are not being recognized by the 6502 in the Apple II+.

    - Mike



    If that's the case, I can't see any harm (other than to "original"/"collectable" status) in just dropping a 'c02 into it. Then
    again, it's possible (not likely, just possible) that the cards might
    want to play with mousetext chars or something silly like that...

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  • From Peter Ibbotson@spambox@ibbotson.demon.co.uk to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 09:11:59
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    "Don Bruder" <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote in message news:CgOQa.1896$dk4.96545@typhoon.sonic.net...
    In article <lQNQa.2955$s_3.27@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
    "Michael Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote:
    I recall seeing some postings on comp.sys.apple2 from around 1990 that stated that the implementation of the RDY line on the 65c02 is
    inconsistent
    with the 6502 which causes other problems. A better option might be to
    drop
    in a 65816, which more faithfully recreates the 6502 functionality (in
    6502
    emulation mode).

    Huh... Hadn't heard about that. I've always believed the 'c02 was
    supposed to be pin-for-pin replacement for, as well as a functional
    superset of, the "plain" '02. Y'learn somethin' new every day! :)

    (And no, I'm not being snide)


    Michael is right. IIRC the problem is in the hold time on the data bus the
    cmos part removes the data too quickly for the data bus latches to work reliably. One of the Apple //e tech notes discusses the problem (In this
    case between a 6502 and a 6502A but the same thing applies).

    --
    Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply
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  • From Wayne Stewart@waynes@telus.dotnet to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 15:21:47
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



    Michael Pender wrote:

    I recall seeing some postings on comp.sys.apple2 from around 1990 that
    stated that the implementation of the RDY line on the 65c02 is inconsistent with the 6502 which causes other problems. A better option might be to drop in a 65816, which more faithfully recreates the 6502 functionality (in 6502 emulation mode).

    - Mike

    65816s are a bit on the scarce side. There are a couple of 65C02s that
    do work with the II+ though. The GTE and the Rockwell.

    Wayne

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  • From Bill Garber@willy46pa@comcast.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 15:08:59
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



    "Michael Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:lQNQa.2955$s_3.27@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
    Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote in message news:rlNQa.1882$dk4.95590@typhoon.sonic.net...

    If that's the case, I can't see any harm (other than to "original"/"collectable" status) in just dropping a 'c02 into it. Then again, it's possible (not likely, just possible) that the cards might
    want to play with mousetext chars or something silly like that...

    I recall seeing some postings on comp.sys.apple2 from around 1990 that
    stated that the implementation of the RDY line on the 65c02 is
    inconsistent
    with the 6502 which causes other problems. A better option might be to
    drop
    in a 65816, which more faithfully recreates the 6502 functionality (in
    6502
    emulation mode).

    Although the '816 is basically pin compatible to the 6502,
    they are not signal compatible. And to answer other posts
    without opening another new one, YES, the Liron and UniDisk
    combo does in fact work in my IIe and IIgs. I haven't tried it on
    an unenhanced IIe but I'm sure it will give the same results.
    I may need to remove and check the pins on all my roms, as I
    haven't done that yet, but will before installing in the case that
    I just received today. Oh, and I did change the mechanism in the
    UniDisk drive, could that be a problem? I assumed the same mech
    would work out of an Apple 3.5 drive. Thank you all. Let me know
    if you think of any other troubleshooting techniques.

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa@comcast.net



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  • From Wayne Stewart@waynes@telus.dotnet to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 20:44:28
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



    Wayne Stewart wrote:


    Michael Pender wrote:

    I recall seeing some postings on comp.sys.apple2 from around 1990 that
    stated that the implementation of the RDY line on the 65c02 is
    inconsistent
    with the 6502 which causes other problems. A better option might be
    to drop
    in a 65816, which more faithfully recreates the 6502 functionality (in
    6502
    emulation mode).

    - Mike


    65816s are a bit on the scarce side. There are a couple of 65C02s that
    do work with the II+ though. The GTE and the Rockwell.

    Wayne

    AAAAAAAAAK, I was thinking 65802. A 65816 won't work in a II+ without an adapter which would effectively turn it into a 65802. 65802s are hard to
    find. The Rockwell and GTE 65C02 are fairly easy to come by.

    Wayne

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  • From markREMOVE@markREMOVE@syndicomm.com (Mark Percival) to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 23:03:08
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    "Mark Percival" <markREMOVE@syndicomm.com> wrote in message >news:d0t6hvg0tf37450rcl88u9gd6qvpsq3ke7@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:42:42 -0400, "Bill Garber"
    <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    I sold my UDC and thought I could use the UniDisk 3.5"
    drive on the II+, but it doesn't work. Is that the only controller
    that will work?

    A "Apple 3.5 floppy disk controller card" (aka Liron card) will work.

    A Superdrive card *might* work. I seem to recall someone saying it
    did on a II plus.

    I tried both, and both crash into the monitor on attempt at access.

    I know for a fact that a Unidisk 3.5 + Liron card does work on a Apple
    ][ plus. I've used it this way many times. How much RAM does your ][
    plus have and what are you trying to boot?
    Mark R. Percival - RTC Host - Syndicomm Online Apple II Forum
    "Midweek Madness!" Every Wednesday Night : 7:00 PM - 9:00 PM Pacific Time

    http://www.syndicomm.com
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  • From Bill Garber@willy46pa@comcast.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 23:50:56
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



    "Mark Percival" <markREMOVE@syndicomm.com> wrote in message news:mvf9hvocbate6i6p9hfkaq7f0cmq30hfa1@4ax.com...
    On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    "Mark Percival" <markREMOVE@syndicomm.com> wrote in message >news:d0t6hvg0tf37450rcl88u9gd6qvpsq3ke7@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:42:42 -0400, "Bill Garber"
    <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    I sold my UDC and thought I could use the UniDisk 3.5"
    drive on the II+, but it doesn't work. Is that the only controller
    that will work?

    I know for a fact that a Unidisk 3.5 + Liron card does work on a Apple
    ][ plus. I've used it this way many times. How much RAM does your ][
    plus have and what are you trying to boot?

    Aw Mark, you're too late. I got the problem licked. I have it in slot 4
    and working great. Had a fried memory chip and another questionable
    chip on the Language card. It will not work in slot 5 or 7 with the Apple
    5.25 controller in slot 6. I think if I switch to Disk IIs, then it might
    let
    me use it in a higher slot but I am happy with it now. I have yet to find
    a 65C02 that works, I've tried NCR and GTE and I think the only Rockwell
    I have is in a good working IIc and I'll not jeopardize that to update a
    II+.
    Oh, and so far I can boot into ProDOS 1.2. I think I have 1.4 somewhere
    as well as 1.8 and 1.9, but I know 2.0.3 is not going to without 128k,
    80 col, and 65C02. Might as well have a IIe then. ;-)
    I do thank you for the post and if I need more info I know I can count
    on you. Thanks.

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa@comcast.net



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  • From Wayne Stewart@waynes@telus.dotnet to comp.sys.apple2 on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 06:36:43
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Bill Garber wrote:

    Oh, and so far I can boot into ProDOS 1.2. I think I have 1.4 somewhere
    as well as 1.8 and 1.9, but I know 2.0.3 is not going to without 128k,
    80 col, and 65C02. Might as well have a IIe then. ;-)

    You don't need the 80 column card or 128k to use ProDOS 2.0.3. All you
    need is 64k and a 65C02

    Wayne

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  • From markREMOVE@markREMOVE@syndicomm.com (Mark Percival) to comp.sys.apple2 on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 09:21:00
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

    Oh, and so far I can boot into ProDOS 1.2. I think I have 1.4 somewhere
    as well as 1.8 and 1.9, but I know 2.0.3 is not going to without 128k,
    80 col, and 65C02. Might as well have a IIe then. ;-)

    Actually all I think is required is the 65C02. The IIe's 128K and 80
    columns are optional.

    Mark R. Percival - RTC Host - Syndicomm Online Apple II Forum
    "Midweek Madness!" Every Wednesday Night : 7:00 PM - 9:00 PM Pacific Time

    http://www.syndicomm.com
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  • From Steven N. Hirsch@shirsch@adelphia.net to comp.sys.apple2 on Friday, July 18, 2003 12:00:52
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Roger Johnstone wrote:
    In <8GednYCGI7qaVomiXTWJiQ@comcast.com> Bill Garber wrote:


    I have yet to find a 65C02 that works, I've tried NCR and GTE and I
    think the only Rockwell I have is in a good working IIc and I'll not >>jeopardize that to update a II+.


    Bob Sander-Cederlof's Apple Assembly Lines, available at Scott Alfter's
    web site <http://salfter.dyndns.org/aal.shtml>, has an article on
    putting a 65C02 in an Apple II+.

    This is from the December 1984 issue:

    (snip)

    I never had much luck with that approach. Just posted another letter
    from Assembly Lines (in this thread) with a one-wire fix that did the trick.

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  • From jim symolon@jsymolon01@SPAMattbiBAIT.com to comp.sys.apple2 on Sunday, July 20, 2003 13:31:34
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

    Bill Garber wrote:

    Thank you Steve, I am going to give that a shot. I may need to get new 200ns 4116's. I seem to have a mix of 150's and 200's. That can't be good in itself.
    Wonder who owned this before I did.

    Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
    Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
    Email - willy46pa@comcast.net

    From my dabblings with hardware, the 150s should not be a problem. The faster chips just have a shorter set up time than the 200s.

    Unless you mean to use all 150s ?

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