From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Are you asking about using a CD-RW on an Apple IIgs to burn CD's?

Thank you,
Jason Whorton



"M. Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ZjhRa.11936$kI5.6672@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

How hard is it to install a SCSI card in a IIgs and then add an

external

hard drive or Zip drive?

Are drivers available to add a CDROM? What about a CD-R/W?

- Mike

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Jason Whorton <jason at microxl.com> wrote in message news:vhbbhshviuoub0@corp.supernews.com...

Are you asking about using a CD-RW on an Apple IIgs to burn CD's?

Thank you,
Jason Whorton

Yes, I would like to be able to read CDs or DVDs and maybe even burn CDs
from an Apple II.


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Attaching an Apple CD-150 or other com[patible CD-ROM drive is easy. No
Cd-RW is available...

"M. Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ZjhRa.11936$kI5.6672@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

How hard is it to install a SCSI card in a IIgs and then add an external
hard drive or Zip drive?

Are drivers available to add a CDROM? What about a CD-R/W?

- Mike

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hi. An Apple IIgs can read some CD-ROM discs, but it cannot read DVD's
or make any type of CD or DVD. It takes a fair amount of computing
power to create a CD or DVD, and unfortunately, our beloved Apple II
line was stopped way before it ever had that much power.
Also, I see that you posted this to the marketplace newsgroup.
Please don't post irrelevant stuff there. There's enough off-topic
stuff there already.

Hope this helps,
Jason Whorton



"M. Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:FklRa.14351$kI5.2917@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Jason Whorton <jason at microxl.com> wrote in message news:vhbbhshviuoub0@corp.supernews.com...

Are you asking about using a CD-RW on an Apple IIgs to burn CD's?

Thank you,
Jason Whorton

Yes, I would like to be able to read CDs or DVDs and maybe even burn

CDs

from an Apple II.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

"M. Pender" wrote:

Yes, I would like to be able to read CDs or DVDs and maybe even burn CDs
from an Apple II.

That'll be impossible!

There is no software CD burning utilities or support for DVDs on Apple II.

I often have considered getting a CD-ROM drive for my Apple IIGS, but the
main limitation is the lack of CD software for it which are extremely rare.

Your best bet is to get the official Apple computer, "Apple II High-Speed Controller" card for it, this will easily work with SCSI devices on either Apple IIe or IIGS. Such a card usually fetch high prices on E-Bay, as they
are highly sought after. The software driver can be downloaded from Apple's official website.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



M. Pender wrote:

How hard is it to install a SCSI card in a IIgs and then add an external
hard drive or Zip drive?

Are drivers available to add a CDROM? What about a CD-R/W?

- Mike

Likely the hardest part about installing a SCSI card is the acquisition. There's no software to write CDs on an Apple II.
Zip drives work well enough. Currently I have a hard drive, 200mb
Syquest, 230mb magneto-optical, and a 40x Toshiba CD-ROM connected to
a ramfast Rev D on my IIgs. The CD-ROM is a little overkill speedwise
but what the heck.

The most common SCSI cards are the CMS, Rev C, Apple Hi-Speed, and the
ramfast. I own at least one of each of these and I'd rate them in that
order from least to most desirable.
If you just want a hard drive you might consider a CFFA card or a Focus
drive. Last I heard the Focus was still coming with system 6.0.1
installed.

Wayne

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

The hardest thing to find is an apple SCSI card nowadays. The other stuff
can be had cheap.

Most cost effective hard drive is to get an external SCSI-1 case. The case
has a CN50F pass thru connectors on it and there is a 50pin ribbon cable
inside to hook to the drive itself. Look for an "external scsi" on ebay.
Some ads will be for enclosures by themselves, some will have drives in
them. Nowadays the most of the external drives on ebay are many GB in size, but if you find one in the 250mb-1gb range that should be quite sufficient
for an a2. If you can't find one with a drive in it, just buy a SCSI-1 enclosure by itself then find a nice 50-pin SCSI drive to put in it. You should be able to get the pair for under $20 plus shipping.

For a CD-ROM the Apple CDSC and CD150 I have personally tested and they work fine. I think there are others listed in the comp.sys.apple2 faq that work.
I see CD150s on ebay every now and then (again-- $10-$20 should be max you
will have to pay for one of these) but not very many CDSCs). But CD Roms
for an A2 are rare. No application/game CD-ROMs per se-- most are just archive/data type CD-ROMs (file libraries in *.SHK format).

As far as writing CDRW or reading DVDs, no. But if you install the ISO9660 drivers in GSOS you should be able to read most CDROMs formatted on PCs--
but you can't do much with anything other than plain text unless you burn an ISO CD of *.shk files. You can play audio CDs too... but you have to use
the headphone port on the CD drive for audio, I don't know of any way to
route the audio through the GS speakers unless there is some stereo card out there with a line-in port?

Then you would need cables. From scsi card to hard drive you need a DB25M
to CN50M. If you have an external HD and CDROM and need to connect them in
the chain then you need a CN50M to CN50M cable. Some drives have
terminating resistors but a CN50M terminating plug to put on the end of the chain is always nice to have. Again, cheap. Just search for SCSI cable on ebay and there should be a bunch.

I recently found out that using appletalk to access the CD-ROM drive of a
mac performa over a network connection is not a noticable speed difference
over using a local CDSC with a Rev C SCSI card. The mac can read the CD
much faster which makes directory navigation a little better, but the lower bandwidth causes slowdown when you need to copy a lot of files over. I use
a mac for backing up my a2 hard drive, etc. over the network so I just keep
a data CD in the mac CDrom and whenever I need to pull something from the archive I just map the network drive and it is there.

comp.sys.apple2 faq should have directions regarding the drivers you need to install in gsos to get the devices to show up (scsi.manager et al) as well
as instructions for formatting and partitioning your HD.

"M. Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ZjhRa.11936$kI5.6672@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

How hard is it to install a SCSI card in a IIgs and then add an external
hard drive or Zip drive?

Are drivers available to add a CDROM? What about a CD-R/W?

- Mike

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Phil Abel <phil_nonospam_abel@nonospam_prodigy_nonospam.net> wrote in
message news:ywVRa.1975$ZE7.1406@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

As far as writing CDRW or reading DVDs, no. But if you install the

ISO9660

drivers in GSOS you should be able to read most CDROMs formatted on PCs--
but you can't do much with anything other than plain text unless you burn

an

ISO CD of *.shk files. You can play audio CDs too... but you have to use
the headphone port on the CD drive for audio, I don't know of any way to route the audio through the GS speakers unless there is some stereo card

out

there with a line-in port?

...

I recently found out that using appletalk to access the CD-ROM drive of a
mac performa over a network connection is not a noticable speed difference over using a local CDSC with a Rev C SCSI card. The mac can read the CD
much faster which makes directory navigation a little better, but the

lower

bandwidth causes slowdown when you need to copy a lot of files over. I

use

a mac for backing up my a2 hard drive, etc. over the network so I just

keep

a data CD in the mac CDrom and whenever I need to pull something from the archive I just map the network drive and it is there.

I'd like to be able to burn a single DVD with the combined contents of
Asimov, ground, and any other interesting archive sites. Short of that, a CDROM with most of the interesting bits would be useful. I like the
Appletalk approach - I could just create an area on a Mac's hard disk for files, download files from the net to the Mac and use the Mac as a file server/print server.

I had thought I would get better throughput by connecting the SCSI
peripherals directly to the IIgs, but maybe not. However, I'll still want a hard drive to use as a boot volume.

- Mike


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

Hello. Here is your original post:

"How hard is it to install a SCSI card in a IIgs and then add an
external
hard drive or Zip drive?

Are drivers available to add a CDROM? What about a CD-R/W?

- Mike"

There isn't one word of that post that relates to buying or selling. If
you are asking about DVD and CD-RW for an Apple II computer, then you
obviously have not read the FAQ and have done almost no research at all.
Sorry that I got out of line while spoon feeding you.

Jeez,
Jason Whorton






"Michael Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:19rRa.17205$kI5.449@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Jason Whorton <jason at microxl.com> wrote in message news:vhc8kasr2bfk7f@corp.supernews.com...

Hi. An Apple IIgs can read some CD-ROM discs, but it cannot read

DVD's

or make any type of CD or DVD. It takes a fair amount of computing
power to create a CD or DVD, and unfortunately, our beloved Apple II
line was stopped way before it ever had that much power.
Also, I see that you posted this to the marketplace newsgroup.
Please don't post irrelevant stuff there. There's enough off-topic
stuff there already.

I'm "in the market" to purchase SCSI devices for an Apple II. I would

think

that's about as "on-topic" as subject matter gets.

--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

"M. Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote:

How hard is it to install a SCSI card in a IIgs and then add an external
hard drive or Zip drive?

Are drivers available to add a CDROM? What about a CD-R/W?

SCSI:

Hard drive=yes
Zip drive=yes
CDROM=yes
CD-RW=no

I had a 1GB hard disk on my IIGS chained to my Apple High
Speed SCSI card and a CD-ROM and SCSI Zip drive chained
off them.

The Zip drive was nice. If you format the Zip disk as HFS
(making sure the HFS FST is installed on your IIGS
system disk), you don't have to partition the Zip disk.

I found some old Apple SCSI CD-ROM drives. I then
kept one of them as is for CD-ROM and removed the
CD-ROM from the other enclosure and installed the
Insider internal SCSI Zip Drive into it. Worked great.
It was cool to see the black Zip drive inside the
platinum Apple CD-ROM case with Apple logo too.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

"Jason Whorton" <jason at microxl.com> wrote:

Hi. An Apple IIgs can read some CD-ROM discs, but it cannot read DVD's
or make any type of CD or DVD. It takes a fair amount of computing
power to create a CD or DVD, and unfortunately, our beloved Apple II
line was stopped way before it ever had that much power.

Not really. If drivers and controllers for the task existed,
it would not be a problem for the IIGS. Packet writing
(as in InCD or DirectCD) would be no problem for the
IIGS. It does not take nearly the uninterrupted transfer
bandwidth of a traditional CD burn. Even with normal
CD burning, with buffer underun technology this is
much less a problem.

For MPEG compression and decompression, there
are external boxes even for the PC that take over the
function freeing the PC CPU. Of course these won't
work on the IIGS as is but IF the IIGS development
resources of the 80's were still present, it may be
possible to have an equivalent.

This things are not possible not because of technical
limitations but because of lack of developers due to
lack of a market.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2



Michael Pender wrote:

That's a clever hack--putting the zip drive in the CDROM enclosure. I'm thinking about adding a Zip instead of a hard drive. Its slower, but I'm
not sure I'll really notice given the bus speed limitations of an Apple II.

Possibly with a rev C SCSI card you might not notice a huge difference.
With anything faster I'm sure you would.

Wayne


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

"Michael Pender" <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote:

Supertimer <supertimer@aol.com> wrote:

The Zip drive was nice. If you format the Zip disk as HFS
(making sure the HFS FST is installed on your IIGS
system disk), you don't have to partition the Zip disk.

I found some old Apple SCSI CD-ROM drives. I then
kept one of them as is for CD-ROM and removed the
CD-ROM from the other enclosure and installed the
Insider internal SCSI Zip Drive into it. Worked great.
It was cool to see the black Zip drive inside the
platinum Apple CD-ROM case with Apple logo too.

That's a clever hack--putting the zip drive in the CDROM enclosure. I'm >thinking about adding a Zip instead of a hard drive. Its slower, but I'm
not sure I'll really notice given the bus speed limitations of an Apple II.

You would think you wouldn't notice but surprisingly
the Zip drive still feels a lot more sluggish than an
SCSI hard disk drive or even a Focus IDE drive (ie.
a notebook hard drive on an IDE card).

The Zip drive was about as fast on the IIGS as the
PC Transporter card's RAM in Apple mode, used
as a slot based RAM disk. I would say it was
at least 3 times slower than my SCSI drive and
some 2.5 times slower than my Focus drive. Just
from feel.

What was really cool about the Zip drive was that
you could read and write to PC formatted Zip
disks with Peter Watson's MUG! utility. I used it
to transfer a lot of large files back and forth, well
worth the $10 shareware fee.
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <PHrTa.55064$EZ2.2595@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
news.verizon.net <mpender@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'm not really interested in watching DVD movies from a IIgs, but it would
be nice to be able to burn a DVD with a Mac or a PC and then read it from
the IIgs.

DVD-ROMs can be burned in ISO-9660 format as well as UDF. While a UDF
DVD-ROM definitely won't work, maybe an ISO-9660 or hybrid ISO/UDF DVD-ROM would work. (An even stranger beast would be a DVD-ROM with HFS or even
ProDOS filesystems on it...you can do this with CD-ROM easily enough, and as far as burning software goes, a DVD-R isn't much more than a really large CD-R.)

Testing this would require a SCSI DVD-ROM drive, though...all of the DVD-ROM drives I have are IDE.

_/_ Scott Alfter
/ v \ salfter@salfter.dyndns.org
(IIGS( http://alfter.us Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/HspiVgTKos01OwkRAnBUAKC+R+1ZZ+p9AWtmSKyHpP0sKoH+OQCgpN6Z /ptV9/857EkH3YjT8GpT6v0=
=D7DV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2


"Scott Alfter" <salfter@salfter.dyndns.org> wrote in message news:CTzTa.14691$Bp2.7692@fed1read07...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
DVD-ROMs can be burned in ISO-9660 format as well as UDF. While a UDF DVD-ROM definitely won't work, maybe an ISO-9660 or hybrid ISO/UDF DVD-ROM would work. (An even stranger beast would be a DVD-ROM with HFS or even ProDOS filesystems on it...you can do this with CD-ROM easily enough, and

as

far as burning software goes, a DVD-R isn't much more than a really large CD-R.)

May I add that there is one other big difference. CDs are burned using a pinpoint IR light beam, where DVD is burned using a finer and much
hotter UV beam. For the record.

Testing this would require a SCSI DVD-ROM drive, though...all of the

DVD-ROM

drives I have are IDE.

Come to think of it, I've never seen or heard of a SCSI DVD drive.
I think I will go and search for one. ;-)

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprises };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy46pa@comcast.net



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/19/03


--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.apple2

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <wY6cnZRzD8heTIOiXTWJjA@comcast.com>,
Bill Garber <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote:

"Scott Alfter" <salfter@salfter.dyndns.org> wrote in message >news:CTzTa.14691$Bp2.7692@fed1read07...

DVD-ROMs can be burned in ISO-9660 format as well as UDF. While a UDF
DVD-ROM definitely won't work, maybe an ISO-9660 or hybrid ISO/UDF
DVD-ROM would work. (An even stranger beast would be a DVD-ROM with HFS
or even ProDOS filesystems on it...you can do this with CD-ROM easily
enough, and as far as burning software goes, a DVD-R isn't much more than
a really large CD-R.)

May I add that there is one other big difference. CDs are burned using a >pinpoint IR light beam, where DVD is burned using a finer and much
hotter UV beam. For the record.

That's a physical difference in the process. The software controlling the burner doesn't need to concern itself with that detail...it's abstracted
away by the hardware. (FWIW, DVDs are read and burned with a red (visible) laser, while CDs are read and burned with an infrared laser.)

Testing this would require a SCSI DVD-ROM drive, though...all of the
DVD-ROM drives I have are IDE.

Come to think of it, I've never seen or heard of a SCSI DVD drive.
I think I will go and search for one. ;-)

They exist (built a system with one a few years ago), but they're not at all common. They're a bit more expensive (but SCSI always is more expensive),
and at least back then their speeds usually lagged behind what was available
in IDE. I suspect they've since caught up.

(The cheapest price that turned up on Pricewatch for a SCSI DVD-ROM drive was $58 for a Pioneer U03S 6x drive. The fastest SCSI DVD-ROM that turned up
was a 12x from Toshiba (probably the same drive I used before); the lowest price on that is $118. By comparison, the last IDE DVD-ROM drive I bought
was a 16x from BTC that cost $35 at Fry's; the lowest price given by
Pricewatch for a 16x IDE DVD-ROM drive is $26 (for a Pioneer, not a no-name).)

_/_ Scott Alfter
/ v \ salfter@salfter.dyndns.org
(IIGS( http://alfter.us Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/HuVSVgTKos01OwkRAhIuAJ9p4PwkjGwMQeqxJ7165LfS086bRgCgsbbX uYUnJP24BNUdXI/07KCcSUc=
=zIfo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--- Synchronet 3.18b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113