here we go again...
Let's look at the evidence:
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Oh, opposed to the Spectrum...
Well, let's say that I own 3 C64's and 2 speccies. Both speccies have all sorts of technical problems and remind me of Lada's: you have to keep
working at them to keep them running,
they are going to market an official C64 emulator, which
will probably kill the C64 emulation/abandonware scene
Tulip is reviving Commodore and the C64, by the way. At first only in software (i.e., they are going to market an official C64 emulator, which
will probably kill the C64 emulation/abandonware scene),
but they are speaking of hardware too.
Let's look at the evidence:
Let's look at the evidence:
Sinclair QL wrote:
Την/On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:28:32 +0200,ο(η) Peter de Vroomen
<peterv@ditweghaluh.jaytown.com> έγραψε/wrote:
Tulip is reviving Commodore and the C64, by the way. At first only in
software (i.e., they are going to market an official C64 emulator,
which
will probably kill the C64 emulation/abandonware scene), but they are
speaking of hardware too.
PeterV
See.... you're running by yourselves and still managed to finish last ;-)
Although Amstrad hasn't (technically) got the Sinclair name anymore, ZX
Hmmm, seems like the internet has passed you by....
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=1191859 http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=1196410
Amstrad *has* got the Sinclair name these days, and I claim my five (R) symbols.
In article <9gm7hv8oukb1dimd9cd2v0ran797pmplro@4ax.com>,
The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Let's look at the evidence:
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
66046 bytes of RAM when you include the 1024 nybbles of color RAM.
All accessible with a bit of 6510 assembly.
Maybe you should take part in the 1k game competition to prove your >points?:-)
Crap as opposed to what? Or is this simply a sad attempt at trolling?
Oh, opposed to the Spectrum...
Well, let's say that I own 3 C64's and 2 speccies. Both speccies have all >sorts of technical problems and remind me of Lada's: you have to keep
working at them to keep them running, and the occasional bash will help. The >C64's remind me of Nissan's: nobody actually wants them because they are >ugly, but they offer the best value that money can buy.
Tulip is reviving Commodore and the C64, by the way. At first only in >software (i.e., they are going to market an official C64 emulator, which
will probably kill the C64 emulation/abandonware scene), but they are >speaking of hardware too.
Peter de Vroomen wrote:
Tulip is reviving Commodore and the C64, by the way. At first only in
software (i.e., they are going to market an official C64 emulator, which
will probably kill the C64 emulation/abandonware scene),
Now that will take some doing, if it's going to be successful. Especially >when you got the excellent open-source VICE Commodore emulator, available
on most OSs.
Are there any really any successful commercial 'pay money for' Speccy >emulators? I know there are a few *shareware* ones. But from what I've seen >and read most people are using Spin or Spectaculator, or if your using
Linux, Fuse.
When I was a young lad being a Speccy owner meant bashing the Commodore >crowd simply 'because'... but then one day I actually used my mate's
64... and was amazed! Really! I'm a big fan of the Speccy and all things >Clive but I gotta say the 64 is a great machine.
Let's look at the evidence:
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware based spritesto
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown, and really *REALLY* blockygraphics. How
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovelyfast
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode?
Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be theworst
basic I have ever seen on any computer. Even typing nothing on it get'sthat
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode.
At least we could type a program inmistakes.
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for finding
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longerto load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, beingsuperbly
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing with hugekeys
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype). Spectrum, small, light, powerful!
Let's look at the evidence:
Let's look at the evidence:
X-Archive-No:Yes
"The Starglider" <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >news:9gm7hv8oukb1dimd9cd2v0ran797pmplro@4ax.com...
[snip crap]mmmm
yawn
[shrugs]
¨*PLONK*
Ok. Even though it's obvious this guy is trolling i'm going to defend my beloved c64 step by step. I guess i'm just bored.
Slow compared to... the spectrum?
Last thing i heard 6 million people are still using the c64. And Tulip is
now resurrecting them. I don't see anyone resurrect the Spectrum.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:16 +0200, "D.B." <sorry@no.spam> wrote:
X-Archive-No:Yes
"The Starglider" <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >>news:9gm7hv8oukb1dimd9cd2v0ran797pmplro@4ax.com...
[snip crap]
mmmm
yawn
[shrugs]
¨*PLONK*
So does that mean that he has no valid proof that the C64 wasn't crap???Probably csc's answer to Lister, and has never actually *used* a C64.
Poor show dear boy!
And there's a demo and coding scene for the spectrum just as large
as the commode's.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:11:15 +0200, "Roland (.funxiun.)" ><NOSPAMusenetNOSPAM@NOSPAMfunxiunNOSPAM.808 (808=com)> wrote:
here we go again...That's the best counter-argument you could come up with. In that case, I am >right. The C64 was, is and always will be crap.
"The Starglider" <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message...
So does that mean that he has no valid proof that the C64 wasn't crap???
Hi.
What is a speccy? Sorry for my ignorance, but I never even heard of it.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:14:00 +0100, The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:am
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:11:15 +0200, "Roland (.funxiun.)" ><NOSPAMusenetNOSPAM@NOSPAMfunxiunNOSPAM.808 (808=com)> wrote:
here we go again...That's the best counter-argument you could come up with. In that case, I
right. The C64 was, is and always will be crap.
Let Google decide:
!Z80 on RISC OS
Let Google decide:
Currrent number of 2003 MiniGames: Commodore 5, Sinclair 2, Amstrad 1At least 1 of those is for VIC-20, not C-64.
with 2.5 months to go before the deadline. :-)
Afterthought: MS Windows to this day has no task priority setting.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:00:12 +0100, The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:57:13 GMT, paul s <nospam@nospam.forme> wrote:
Yes, there was, Z80 did very well.
Are there any really any successful commercial 'pay money for' Speccy >>emulators? I know there are a few *shareware* ones. But from what I've seen >>and read most people are using Spin or Spectaculator, or if your using >>Linux, Fuse.
!Z80 on RISC OS was very 'swish' indeed and seemed to be doing quite
well last time I was in those waters. Dunno how it stacked up in the
great scheme of emulation seeing as there aren't that many RISC OS users
to start with, let alone with Spectrum fever, and even fewer willing to
shell out 15 quid or so. But it must have been quite good cos it's one
of the very few applications I've ever paid money for (and, no, I don't pirate) and I don't remember any PD or shareware emulators even working
post RISC OS 3.50.
When I was a young lad being a Speccy owner meant bashing the Commodore crowd simply 'because'... but then one day I actually used my mate's
64... and was amazed! Really! I'm a big fan of the Speccy and all things Clive but I gotta say the 64 is a great machine.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:14:00 +0100, The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:am
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:11:15 +0200, "Roland (.funxiun.)" ><NOSPAMusenetNOSPAM@NOSPAMfunxiunNOSPAM.808 (808=com)> wrote:
here we go again...That's the best counter-argument you could come up with. In that case, I
right. The C64 was, is and always will be crap.
Let Google decide:
R.
(*sigh*)
http://www.funxiun.com
.dark.elektronix.
review of the Amiga 1000
The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
Let's look at the evidence:
As for the Speccy I didn't note it in my first post as it didn't exist
for many years after.
..it's competition is the Commodore Amiga series
Read a bit of the official Sinclair history at: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/sinclairbasic/history.html
...mind you, that's normal for Commode Users.
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
At least 1 of those is for VIC-20, not C-64.
"shephed" <smokey@twist1up.com> wrote in message news:oLZQa.796$ib2.120539@twister.neo.rr.com...
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
No, you would be physically disabled. Retarded is when you have something wrong with your mind, a situation I'm sure you are quite used to.
So does that mean that he has no valid proof that the C64 wasn't crap???
Poor show dear boy!
Just a simple reply: If you don't like a certain (8-bit) machine,
then just don't use it rather than complaining about others who like
their C64 (I do and I don't really care about what you say).
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Let's look at the evidence:
Remove "wibble" in
E Mail address
TO REPLY.
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Typical flame war crap from the 80's... Same crap grammer and spelling >issues..Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >> > Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Pay attention class! If you fan the flame war, check your grammer.
Note: "You might win, but your still retarted."
Corrected: "You might win, but you're still retarded."
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:00:12 +0100, The Starglider ><the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:57:13 GMT, paul s <nospam@nospam.forme> wrote:
Yes, there was, Z80 did very well.
Are there any really any successful commercial 'pay money for' Speccy >>>emulators? I know there are a few *shareware* ones. But from what I've seen >>>and read most people are using Spin or Spectaculator, or if your using >>>Linux, Fuse.
!Z80 on RISC OS was very 'swish' indeed and seemed to be doing quite
well last time I was in those waters. Dunno how it stacked up in the
great scheme of emulation seeing as there aren't that many RISC OS users
to start with, let alone with Spectrum fever, and even fewer willing to
shell out 15 quid or so. But it must have been quite good cos it's one
of the very few applications I've ever paid money for (and, no, I don't >pirate) and I don't remember any PD or shareware emulators even working
post RISC OS 3.50.
Let's look at the evidence:to
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware based sprites
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.graphics. How
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown, and really *REALLY* blocky
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!fast
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovely
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode? Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?worst
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be the
basic I have ever seen on any computer. Even typing nothing on it get'sthat
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode. At least we could type aprogram in
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for findingmistakes.
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.to load
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longer
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.superbly
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, being
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.keys
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing with huge
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype). Spectrum, small, light, powerful!in
--
****************The Starglider***************** Remove "wibble"
* Web site:http://www.starglider.dynu.com * E-Mailaddress
* * TO REPLY.
*E-Mail: the_starglider2002@yahoo-wibble.co.uk* _WW_
* * /_ _\
*********************************************** | O O |
Games?
From Dictionary.com
So does that mean that he has no valid proof that the C64 wasn't crap???
Poor show dear boy!
Depends on the standard you're judging by. At the time it was
introduced and
for several years after it was a very advanced game & small business
system.
By the time the Spectrum 128 came out it was just about ready to
retire. To judge it by how well it handled the standards of 8 to 10
years after it's introduction it fares poorly on benchmarks.
Of course you need to judge it by how well it actually handles what it
is used for. On that standard it does quite well. Demo coders are
still getting the C64 to do new things, and within the limits of 3
channel sound (6 if the 2d SID modification is made) it has very good
music synthesis capabilities.
It's not able to handle VGA screens natively. So it might be said
that it's graphics are poor. That's a matter of the standard you're
judging by again. Commodore was pushing the limits of what could be
done with a home game console when they designed the Ultimax and
luckily for us the 'Max was expanded into a full blown small business
system that was also a state of the art game console
Of course there have been many hardware & software projects that added
to the many capabilities of the C-64. 80 column hi res screens,
multimeg memories, IBM compatibles harnessed as disk drives, internest connectivity to name a few.
Of course the things that an 8bit 'can't' do such as a Windows OS
(GEOS is one), a Unix knockoff (LUnix). I'm sure that there are many
more 'impossibilities' running around out there and of course the
severak multitasking/multiuser OSes running on C-64
Personally I'd use longevity of the system on the open market as the
best judge of the quality machines. The 64 to this day has the best
claim to the best selling and longest market life of any computer
made.
The Apples went through many models offering partial compatibility
with their predecessors. The Sinclairs and Ataris also limited
compatibility between models as they changed regularly. The C64 made
a few cosmetic changes to lower chip count & a case redesign, but it
remained a C-64. Even it's successor the C-128 family offered a C-64 compatability that only a very few hardware intensive programs could
break.
All of this has been well covered here and elsewhere...didn't think a
rehash was needed :)
Fritz
toSo it should, the CPC is a good computer. The only reason the Spectrumcame
second was due to its larger user base. C64 compared to Spectrum, well
meBut
its a hard one, depends on what you looking for in a computer I guess.
can'tCPC against the Spectrum, well the CPC win in every respect, well I
honestly think of one thing that the Spectrum was better at?
Games?
c64: 1981
Spectrum: 1982
By the time the Spectrum 128 came out it was just about ready to
retire.
big-go@dplanet.ch (Biggo) writes:
c64: 1981
Spectrum: 1982
I thought both were released during 1982. Was the C64 available
anywhere in the world (US, Japan?) already in the end of 1981?
Pay attention class! If you fan the flame war, check your grammer.
"Richard Wilson" <rich@bitwise-systems.com> wrote in message >news:3F14353E.9728899@bitwise-systems.com...
"Roland (.funxiun.)" wrote:
Let Google decide:
I think MicroMart already decided this one. If I remember correctly, the
Amstrad CPC also beat the C64 in their Best Computer of all time
competition!
Richard
So it should, the CPC is a good computer. The only reason the Spectrum came >second was due to its larger user base. C64 compared to Spectrum, well to me >its a hard one, depends on what you looking for in a computer I guess. But >CPC against the Spectrum, well the CPC win in every respect, well I can't >honestly think of one thing that the Spectrum was better at?
Ah ha but
if you fight Commodore vs Sinclair
http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=Commodore&q2=Sinclair&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us
Sir Clive Wins
Richard Wilson <rich@bitwise-systems.com> writes:
Currrent number of 2003 MiniGames: Commodore 5, Sinclair 2, Amstrad 1At least 1 of those is for VIC-20, not C-64.
with 2.5 months to go before the deadline. :-)
Two to be exact. On the other hand, there seems to be no entry for the
48K Spectrum, or are we comparing Commodore 64 with Spectrum 128K rather
than the classic 48K model?
The Starglider wrote:
Ah! The typical American response. Not even bothering to look outside
of their own country to see what else happens in the world. I bet you
think WW2 started in 1942 as well, didn't you? The Commode 64 was not
the leader, simple as that!
Although I'm German and don't really feel offended by that, I feel that if >arguments like that enter the discussion it deserves a short and painless >*PLONK*
WOW!!! what a pointless argument we have here
This is a test.
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Just a simple reply: If you don't like a certain (8-bit) machine, then just >don't use it rather than complaining about others who like their C64 (I do >and I don't really care about what you say). Every machine has it's own >spirit. Some like it and others do not. If you're in love with your speccy: >fine, that's your business - not ours.
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >> > Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Typical flame war crap from the 80's... Same crap grammer and spelling >issues..
Pay attention class! If you fan the flame war, check your grammer.
Note: "You might win, but your still retarted."
Corrected: "You might win, but you're still retarded."
The Starglider wrote:
Let's look at the evidence:
Remove "wibble" in
E Mail address
TO REPLY.
Why would I want to remove the wibble? It's is appropriate for you.
wibble, v. [...] 2. intr. Brit. slang. To speak or write, especially at great >length, without saying anything important; to
witter or waffle; to talk
drivel. Freq. with on. Also trans. with direct speech as object.
"The Starglider" <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message >news:9gm7hv8oukb1dimd9cd2v0ran797pmplro@4ax.com...
Let's look at the evidence:
Shut up, you mindless, mouth-breathing, UTTER bastard.
On 15-Jul-03 at 11:51am +0100, <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Let's look at the evidence:
[ Snip! ]
Rates an 8.7 out of 10 on the TrollScale[tm].
--_____ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Glenn P.," <C128User@FVI.Net> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
I have never seen anything that was specifically written for the
commode 128. Maybe there is now, but not when the machine was being sold!
Off my head, I can only name three games I know existed in C128
versions: Kikstart (?), The Last V8 and a cricket (!) game by Audiogenic.
The last one was one of the very few I saw a review of in the Swedish speaking magazine I used to read. They didn't grasp much of the game.
"Phil-on-a-hill" <malcnospam@gothcorp.co.uk> wrote in message news:AZ%Qa.12253$nP.8874@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
toSo it should, the CPC is a good computer. The only reason the Spectrumcame
second was due to its larger user base. C64 compared to Spectrum, well
meBut
its a hard one, depends on what you looking for in a computer I guess.
can'tCPC against the Spectrum, well the CPC win in every respect, well I
honestly think of one thing that the Spectrum was better at?
Games?
You never played an Amstrad did you?
Both computers share the same processorequal
and sound chip so both versions of the same game would be more or less
sometimes the spectrum version is better, other times it the CPC version. This got more to do with the programmers talents than the computers.it
Now on to the graphics. If a game was designed on the Amstrad to use all
graphical features it just blows the spectrum away,
however a lot of the
games were designed for the weakest computer so that porting over to different formats would be easier and cheaper
hence many Amstrad games look
like Spectums dull O' graphics amd don't take advantage of the full 16 colours on screen (more on the PLUS).
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Oh by the way I don't hate Spectrums or anything.
The Starglider wrote:great
Let's look at the evidence:
Remove "wibble" in
E Mail address
TO REPLY.
Why would I want to remove the wibble? It's is appropriate for you.
wibble, v. [...] 2. intr. Brit. slang. To speak or write, especially at
length, without saying anything important; totalk
witter or waffle; to
drivel. Freq. with on. Also trans. with direct speech as object.
Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chip grating away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior??? What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
On 15 Jul 2003 19:48:56 +0200, Anders Carlsson<anders.carlsson@mds.mdh.se>
wrote:Amstrad 1
Richard Wilson <rich@bitwise-systems.com> writes:
Currrent number of 2003 MiniGames: Commodore 5, Sinclair 2,
thewith 2.5 months to go before the deadline. :-)At least 1 of those is for VIC-20, not C-64.
Two to be exact. On the other hand, there seems to be no entry for
rather48K Spectrum, or are we comparing Commodore 64 with Spectrum 128K
because thatthan the classic 48K model?
Well, yes. I can't see the point of comparing with the Commode 128,
was even worse!commode 128.
I have never seen anything that was specifically written for the
Maybe there is now, but not when the machine was being sold!
At least 1 of those is for VIC-20, not C-64.
A VIC-20, had one of those before i got my spectrum 128K. Spent zillions
of hours typing if i wanted to play a game :-) after the taperecorder
broke down : I couldn't afford another :-( .
Peter Thomas <see-my-sig@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:47:16 GMT, "shephed" <smokey@twist1up.com>
wrote:
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
At time of writing, this cliche has been used about 5,060 times on Usenet[1].
And another 30 times in the last 7 hours. This is the most stupid, most conceptually incorrect "tag line" I ever happened to read in my life.
How can it be so popular?
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:23:47 +0000 (UTC), albert@pikkukorppi.cs.tut.fi (Ojala Pasi 'Albert') wrote:
In article <9gm7hv8oukb1dimd9cd2v0ran797pmplro@4ax.com>,
The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Let's look at the evidence:
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
66046 bytes of RAM when you include the 1024 nybbles of color RAM.
All accessible with a bit of 6510 assembly.
As an additional, does the fact that you can't count and 65536 bytes plus 1024
nybbles equals 66048 bytes (and not 66046)?
Frodo Morris wrote:
Y The Starglider wrote:
If he had bloody read the post, he would see that I was critisizing
the Americans, not the Germans!
And I wanted to point out that I'm not feeling offended by that BECAUSE I'm German. I noticed that it was directed at the Americans.
Oh come on, you know that you Don't Mention the War when there are
Germans around - they either get upset or use it as a chance to
advertise their new ZX81 membranes they have in stock.
Hehe, I think those times are over. Most of the younger folks here are able to cope with the matter in an objective way. It's not the fact that WWII was mentioned, but that argument just didn't fit the discussion.
It seems that
when Starglider is running out of arguments he has to throw around insults that
are way beyond the waistline...
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:31:51 +0100, Frodo Morris <graham.lee@wadham.ox.invalid.ac.uk> wrote:
The Starglider wrote:
If he had bloody read the post, he would see that I was critisizing the >>>Americans, not the Germans!
Oh come on, you know that you Don't Mention the War when there are
Germans around - they either get upset or use it as a chance to
advertise their new ZX81 membranes they have in stock.
Ooh! Cutting! Very cutting! I like this post!
Floris van den Berg <flvdbergMASTER@NOSPAMwxs.nl> wrote:c64
Slow compared to... the spectrum? Compared to current PCs? Obviously a
is slower than a PC.
*And* it's slower than a Spectrum too.
To the Speccy. What were they thinking at CBM when they decided to give
the 64 16 shades of brown?
isLast thing i heard 6 million people are still using the c64. And Tulip
now resurrecting them. I don't see anyone resurrect the Spectrum.
No need to resurrect something that's alive. New Spectrums are still
sold today. *New* Spectrums, not second-hand brown doorstops.
Personally i love the looks of the commodore.
Ha! No wonder you manage to stand c64 graphics. You need glasses.
YOU DON'T SAY! Next, you'll be telling me that the PC has better graphics than an Amiga (which obviously makes it a better machine in every respect known to man ... not).
Phil-on-a-hill wrote:graphics
YOU DON'T SAY! Next, you'll be telling me that the PC has better
respectthan an Amiga (which obviously makes it a better machine in every
known to man ... not).
Only through third-party upgrades, the PC's native graphics capability
is a pile of toss.
"Frodo Morris" <graham.lee@wadham.ox.invalid.ac.uk> wrote in message news:bf3p70$2sh$1@news.ox.ac.uk...
Phil-on-a-hill wrote:
YOU DON'T SAY! Next, you'll be telling me that the PC has better
graphics
than an Amiga (which obviously makes it a better machine in every
respect
known to man ... not).
Only through third-party upgrades, the PC's native graphics capability
is a pile of toss.
Er .... yeah.
capabilityOnly through third-party upgrades, the PC's native graphics
slots,is a pile of toss.
OK, remove any and all expansion cards from your PCI, AGP and ISA
and tell me how good your PC's graphics capability is.
Only through third-party upgrades, the PC's native graphics
capability
OK, remove any and all expansion cards from your PCI, AGP and ISAis a pile of toss.
slots,
and tell me how good your PC's graphics capability is.
Do the led's on the keyboard count as graphics?
Let's look at the evidence:to
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware based sprites
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.graphics. How
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown, and really *REALLY* blocky
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!fast
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovely
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode? Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?worst
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be the
basic I have ever seen on any computer. Even typing nothing on it get'sthat
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode. At least we could type aprogram in
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for findingmistakes.
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.to load
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longer
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.superbly
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, being
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.keys
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing with huge
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype). Spectrum, small, light, powerful!in
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All of us who frequently visit the comp.sys.cbm news group love the
C64 and we don't really care about your "evidence", which in big
parts is incorrect or very subjective (at least I don't). We are
going to continue to love the C64 no matter what you say. I have
never used a Spectrum but it might be a good computer as well. I
don't want to say that a particular home computer is better than
another than. I think it has much to do with which computer you grew
up with which one you think is best.
Users of intel i810 systems need not participate.
If we all had the same taste, most women would be single.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:47:16 GMT, "shephed" <smokey@twist1up.com> wrote:
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >>Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.Again, this is the post that wins the "Crossed the line of taste" by offending >several people who are disabled who post here.
big-go@dplanet.ch (Biggo) wrote in message news:<1fy6khg.1pvmtwzxrhml9N%big-go
This is the most stupid, most
conceptually incorrect "tag line" I ever happened to read in my life.
How can it be so popular?
Because it is true.
It isn't. Special Olympics are for physically disabled persons, while "retarded" refers to mentally handicapped persons.
True or not, it's a stupid thing to say, not because you're telling
someone "you're retarded" (which, in fact, you're not), but because
you're putting down an entire "class" of people who have nothing to do
with the discussion.
Only if you can get a higher resolution than the Speccy :-)OK, remove any and all expansion cards from your PCI, AGP and ISAslots,
and tell me how good your PC's graphics capability is.Do the led's on the keyboard count as graphics?
PS: Shouldnt it read "Even if you win, you are still retarded." ?
And another 30 times in the last 7 hours. This is the most stupid, most >conceptually incorrect "tag line" I ever happened to read in my life.Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the SpecialAt time of writing, this cliche has been used about 5,060 times on
Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Usenet[1].
How can it be so popular?
Shut up, you mindless, mouth-breathing, UTTER bastard.Mouth-breathing? How else would I breath (apart from my nose)? Through my >ears???
This is one of the funniest fuck-ups in a reply I have ever seen! Thank you >Dave!
Biggo wrote:
It isn't. Special Olympics are for physically disabled persons, while
"retarded" refers to mentally handicapped persons.
True or not, it's a stupid thing to say, not because you're telling
someone "you're retarded" (which, in fact, you're not), but because
you're putting down an entire "class" of people who have nothing to do
with the discussion.
They don't? I thought they were in the Speccy camp.
We are going to continue to love the C64 no matter what you say.
go and see what the Commodore can do
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:47:16 GMT, "shephed" <smokey@twist1up.com> wrote:
Arguing over what 8-bit computer is the best is like winning the Special >Olympics. You might win, but your still retarded.
Again, this is the post that wins the "Crossed the line of taste" by offending
several people who are disabled who post here.
I wonder if the Iraqi
info minister owned a Spectrum... Similar mindset if you ask me...
A C64 manifesto !!!
The following message is not intended to morons like 'The
Starglider','Biggo' and other people like this from both the Spectrum
and the Commodore world, they all lack my respect. What can you admire
in a soul that finds satisfaction and pleasure in some low and dirty
actions like these ones. Instead of focusing your energy in something creative on the machine you love, you came here and throw with dirt
and crap on us, only because you belive in the superiority of your
computer. Who gives you the right to act like this? I often wonder how
old are actually the people that start those stupid flamewars. If
they're teenagers, than there is almost nothing to blame them for,
we've all been like this in our lives. But what if they are grown up
people, matures, what then? It is now when you really begin to pittyfy
them. What small and insignificant pleasure they find in those
actions? Those are the actions of a complexed character, someone
affected and driven by his inferiority complexes. Is that sort of
person, which never had any real friends when he was small, which was desperate to get a girl, but all he could managed was to masturbate constantly, telling to him how good he was and how nobody deserved
him. It is like this how those guys get here and do those sort of
things. The satisfaction and the illusion of making some noise, is the
only thing they find pleasure in. But enough with this psichology
crap, it's not what I wanted to say in the first place. I want to
express my views on those 2 computer, Commodore and Spectrum.
I myself have been a Commodore user for a long time, I can say that I
grew up with this computer. And that's why I can say that I know it's
powers very well. Also since a couple of years ago, I became
interested in the Spectrum scene (mostly the russian side, the only
part that is still creating for the Spectrum, since all the rest of
the Spectrum scene seem to be driven only by frustrated englishmen). I
want to tell to every flamewar-ist wannabe to go and actually check
what the machine can really do, instead of coming here and acting like
an ape. So, please dear Spectrum users, go and see what the Commodore
can do, go and download an emulator (Vice) and look at Krestology
demo, look there for the quality of the graphics and the amazing
music, try to capture the flow of that demo, can you see the
masterpiece? Move on to Deus ex machina, by the same crew, watch and
drool at what the Commodore can do, look at the full screen photos,
look at the amazing effect-music syncronization, go on then and check
Royal Arte,+H2k, Soiled Legacy, Dutch Breeze, Digital Magic... (grab
them from www.c64.ch). Have you done that? Look at how fast it loads
using those mighty 2 bit irq loaders, I hope now you are convinced of
how fast the 1541 drive can be. the Ok, now take you Spectrums, with
which you probably can't do anything important these days, because
most of the actual stuff produced for the Speccy runns on the russians clones, if you are unlucky, get yourself an Speccy emulator and start
looking at the Spectrum demos. I have seen most of them, so I can pin
point you to the best of them. So start with Dogma, Inbetween, Shit
for brainz, Binary Love, ... etc. Are you shocked yet? Have you
finally seen what the Spectrum can really do? Check that blocky
graphics carefully, those giant pixels of the speccy are really scary
no? :) look at the graphics, and compare them with Krestology and Deus
ex machina? What do you say now? The only solution for you guys to
enjoy the Spectrum demos is to get really drunk or watch them from 3
or 4 meters so to see those ugly chunky effects in a better quality.
Ok, enough with the graphics. What about the sound? Sid vs Ay? Here
the difference is smaller. Most of the C64 sids rock, look at HVSC
collection for them, and if you wanna be amazed listen to the ones
from Mitch&Dane, GRG, Jeff, DJB ... I have that collection of 9000
tunes of Speccy music. I have listen to most of it. Well from what I
heard, nothing impressed me very much, the sound of the Ay simply
lacks the melody of the Sid, it's to coarse, to metallic, it's to
monotone, most of the speccy tunes use the same instruments and they
sound almost the same (that fast style with ugly drums). But I must
admit that a few speccy melodies captured me (covered amiga tunes)
and I listen them very much. But overall, the Speccy can do very few
with it's weak Ay/Ym chips (have in mind that the original spectrum
didn't even had such a chip, it came with a beeper, now that's
hillaroius, I simply don't know how those frustrated speccy users have
the guts to even talk about this). Now, the last thing, the CPU, the
main argument in every flamewar so far. Yes the z80 is faster than the
6510. But that doesn't mean much. Because of the simpler architecture,
the z80 eats a lot of tacts for it opcodes and it looses a lot of
precious time with this. Also, the z80 inside a spectrum looses a lot
of time with the graphics part, lacking a custom made graphics chip,
like the Vic2 is on the C64. The speed advantage is insignificat, it's
only noticeable in vectored graphics. Which are used in the demos
only, the games in this mode simply suck. Let's go on to the games
now. The spectrum fanatics brag and yell everytime that their games
were better. They often compare the same games (the one that runns on
the speccy vs the one that runns on the C64). Most of the time they
are right, some games that were good on the Speccy, really suck on the
C64. But this is only because the coders were lazy, and they ported
the z80 code to the C64, instead of doing an optimized c64 version.
It's not the fault of the computer, it's the fault of the programmers.
Blame them. But this wasn't always the case. I'll start with some
older games. Look at how Green Beret was on C64 and how dull and
colorless was in the Speccy. Then look at masterpieces like Mayhem in monsterland, look at the colors (it had new colors on the c64, using
all kinds of tricks), look at the Creatures series, Turrican (have you
guys actually played Turrican on the speccy, it's hillarious) games
that were impossible to create on the speccy, because it lacked way to
many features. Look at the new games on the C64, look at what Cadaver
did with the Metal Warrior series and BOFH, and wait for the upcoming
4-th MW game, which will blow everything away. Some of the spectrum
users said that the spectrum is still sold, but the quantities are so
small that it doesn't even matter. Some say the c64 is ugly? Are you
guys insane, have you actually saw a C64c? Just look at how beautiful
the spectrum rusian clones are, they seem to be designed with an axe
not with a machine. Didn't you found amusing how frustrated the
speccy users are (this doesn't come as a surprise for me, as I too
once had a Spectrum, in my youth, and I perfectly rememeber the moment
when my dad smashed it to the wall, that damn thing reseted too often
by itself). I didn't saw a commodore users starting a flamewar now,
what is the purpose of this when you are perfectly satisfied with your computer? Look at how spread the Commodore is in the world, it's
practically everywhere (all of Europe, US, Canada, South America,
Australia (even Tasmania), even China, where the reds illegally cloned
it massively, and in the end Iraq :))
There are so many things happening in the Commodore world, the
Spectrum user can only dream at what the commodore did and does. Let
me tell you now about the modern things the C64 does today. As both
the scenes are involved in improving their computers with hardware
addons, I will talk about the SCPU. Yes, I am a happy user of such a
device. A C=64 with a scpu kicks the Sprinter computer right in the
balls, having 20 Mhz+16 Mb ram, while still maintaining most of the compatibility with a regular C64. I am curious to see how many
Spectrum users had actually went online with their computer, using a
16 bit multitasking Operating system which is both a GUI and a CLI.
Who of them managed to get on irc, read/send emails, telnet to a shell account, using ftp, having their computer hosting a website and
serving it with a http server, listening to an amiga mod, .xm, .s3m,
or a .wav (in 8 bit quality with the Digimax), or looking at a JPG, or streaming a 5 Mb wav or Jpg directly in the SCPU Ram of a fellow C64
users situated on the otherside of the world, and this in the same
time, only with a C64+SCPU running multitasking Wings OS. You speccy
users can only dream about those things. And there are more features developing for this OS.
Indeed, the Spectrum scene is just a 'sect', but Commodore Scene is a religion !!!
Please don't take my message as an insult to your computer, I have
absolutly no problems or issues with the Speccy, I respect it for what
it does. But please, stop being such morons and attack the C64 driven
only by the hate that your computer is not so powerful and versatile
as our C64 is. Let it be, use your Speccys quietly(learn this from the rusians speccy users, which are smart enough to igonore you and don't
have your problems) or better come join the C64 scene :)))))
Peace,
Mihai
PS. In the end, everything depends on the man behind the computer, be
it Commodore or Spectrum, it is only him who can do the magic.
Oh god the Speculum shovelers are at it again...
You're wasting your time, it's not really about the C64 being crap. The
title to this thread translates to read: "The C64 is crap because my parents >couldn't afford a C64 or an Atari 8-bit or even a BBC Micro, so they got me >the Spectrum."
It's all to do with jealously pure and simple. They know the C64 is good,
but they'll swear theirs is better because of gameplay, only because that's >the only thing they can say about their machine. (Yes I know the BASIC is >better on the speccy before you jump in...) good games, big deal...
Another reason they defend the Speccy is, it's British and the C64 is >American. A few of the Brits are jealous of the US, this is just another >angle for them to make fun of the USofA and to make themselves feel better.
I love the Spectrum, it's a great little machine for what is was designed to >do (and I own nearly all the models except the ZX80, 81 and the QL) I just >find it a pity that the regulars on comp.sys.sinclair have this silly >attitude. Sometimes I feel embarrassed to be a speccy fan to be honest. You >can't even say "Commodore" without calling it commode, for gods sake!
The people on comp.sys.cbm or the Amstrad newsgroup don't say spackdrum or >speculum every time we mention the Spectrum, but you just can't let it go
can you? I bet you were going to say, "You're taking too seriously blah >blah, it's just a bit of fun!" Well I can't be bothered with your so called >'fun and games' because it isn't, it's more than the C64 vs. the speccy. >There's no point for comp.sys.cbm'ers to defend the C64, we know what our >machines can do, and we don't have to prove anything. Even if we did, you >still choose to believe in the crap you're saying. I wonder if the Iraqi
info minister owned a Spectrum... Similar mindset if you ask me...
The Speckdrum might have the more queer Fellowship,
but it still has only a Z80.
The Starglider wrote:[snip]
We have class, and taste, and that's why we know that the C64 is crap.
I may very well be. But I can't judge the Speccy because Holland is a
wealthy country so everybody had C64s in my days.
"shephed" <smokey@twist1up.com> wrote in news:oLZQa.796$ib2.120539 @twister.neo.rr.com:
You might win, but your still retarded.
My still retarded what?
Which one is frustrated???
snip 10k message<
I mentioned the
Iraqi info minister because he spouts the total opposite of truth, like you flamers do... Has nothing to do with dictators...
lets see if they the go for the obvious insult, and you didn't disappoint,
You know you're right, we actually agree on something... only sane people by C64s
Bill Bertram <ADSR6581_removethis_@aol.com> wrote:
You live in the same nation as George Pinocchio Bush, and you
talk about "truth"? Come on.
Yep. One wonders why they decided to get mad on a breadbox. Spectrumusers are still sane *after* they got their Speccy. :-P
Derek Jolly. Tuesday. comp.sys.sinclair. Tch, eh?
"shephed" <smokey@twist1up.com> wrote in news:oLZQa.796$ib2.120539
@twister.neo.rr.com:
You might win, but your still retarded.
My still retarded what?
It would appear that the verb "to retard" isn't transitive in this sense; possibly it's some kind of technical term used in distilling industry: "Jings! All mah whisky got spoiled efter the still retarded. Er... Hoots
mon, or something". Clearly, victory gained at such expense to one's machinery would have to be considered somewhat phyrric.
Er, do you own a distillery?
"Biggo" <big-go@dplanet.ch> wrote in message news:1fy7spa.d2rabe11omc9nN%big-go@dplanet.ch...
You live in the same nation as George Pinocchio Bush, and you
talk about "truth"? Come on.
Last time I checked, Tony Blair was the leader of my nation...
Nah, you missed "in" in front of that sane bit, mate. :-P
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:11:15 +0200, "Roland (.funxiun.)" <NOSPAMusenetNOSPAM@NOSPAMfunxiunNOSPAM.808 (808=com)> wrote:am
here we go again...
That's the best counter-argument you could come up with. In that case, I
right. The C64 was, is and always will be crap.in
--
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since all the rest of
the Spectrum scene seem to be driven only by frustrated englishmen).
Ok, now take you Spectrums, with
which you probably can't do anything important these days,
because
most of the actual stuff produced for the Speccy runns on the russians >clones,
if you are unlucky, get yourself an Speccy emulator and start
looking at the Spectrum demos. I have seen most of them, so I can pin
point you to the best of them. So start with Dogma, Inbetween, Shit
for brainz, Binary Love, ... etc. Are you shocked yet? Have you
finally seen what the Spectrum can really do? Check that blocky
graphics carefully, those giant pixels of the speccy are really scary
no? :)
I'll start with some
older games. Look at how Green Beret was on C64 and how dull and
colorless was in the Speccy.
Then look at masterpieces like Mayhem in
monsterland, look at the colors (it had new colors on the c64, using
all kinds of tricks), look at the Creatures series, Turrican (have you
guys actually played Turrican on the speccy, it's hillarious)
Some of the spectrum
users said that the spectrum is still sold, but the quantities are so
small that it doesn't even matter.
Some say the c64 is ugly? Are you
guys insane, have you actually saw a C64c? Just look at how beautiful
the spectrum rusian clones are, they seem to be designed with an axe
not with a machine.
Didn't you found amusing how frustrated the
speccy users are (this doesn't come as a surprise for me, as I too
once had a Spectrum, in my youth, and I perfectly rememeber the moment
when my dad smashed it to the wall, that damn thing reseted too often
by itself). I didn't saw a commodore users starting a flamewar now,
what is the purpose of this when you are perfectly satisfied with your >computer? Look at how spread the Commodore is in the world, it's
practically everywhere
(all of Europe, US, Canada, South America,
Australia (even Tasmania), even China, where the reds illegally cloned
it massively, and in the end Iraq :))
There are so many things happening in the Commodore world, the
Spectrum user can only dream at what the commodore did and does.
Indeed, the Spectrum scene is just a 'sect', but Commodore Scene is a >religion !!!
Please don't take my message as an insult to your computer, I have
absolutly no problems or issues with the Speccy, I respect it for what
it does. But please, stop being such morons and attack the C64 driven
only by the hate that your computer is not so powerful and versatile
as our C64 is.
Let it be, use your Speccys quietly(learn this from the
rusians speccy users, which are smart enough to igonore you and don't
have your problems) or better come join the C64 scene :)))))
I think you'll find that there are some who constantly refer to the little >black wonder as a "spackdrum". I find it most funny that they can't
actually find a legitimate word that puts it down that rhymes!
Why thank you, how gracious of you... ;-)I wonder if the IraqiGood argument, it closes oh so beautifully your "we're smarter than
info minister owned a Spectrum... Similar mindset if you ask me...
this" post.
This is he point where I bring up Adolf Hitler and the thread stops,No this is where you go off on a tangent about dictators... I mentioned the >Iraqi info minister because he spouts the total opposite of truth, like you >flamers do... Has nothing to do with dictators...
right? You know, Hitler, the guy who was Evil personified until another
ex-friend of the USA started to act weird? Remember? He came before
Osama, before Saddam, even before Noriega and Khomeini and
(sorry if I seem to be over-explaining myself, pals, I'm replying to an >AOLer afterOoh, how cutting, I'm a AOL user...
all).
Made my day that has, you people are so
predictable, I was going to use another email address, but then I thought, >lets see if they the go for the obvious insult, and you didn't disappoint, >lol
Naaaah, not even Hitler, fscked up as he could be, would have bought aYou know you're right, we actually agree on something... only sane people by >C64s
c64. <gdrlh>
The Starglider aka Wibble wrote ...little
I think you'll find that there are some who constantly refer to the
black wonder as a "spackdrum". I find it most funny that they can't >actually find a legitimate word that puts it down that rhymes!
spackdrum
rectum
Yes, I did.
version.Both computers share the same processorequal
and sound chip so both versions of the same game would be more or less
sometimes the spectrum version is better, other times it the CPC
This got more to do with the programmers talents than the computers.
Now on to the graphics. If a game was designed on the Amstrad to use allit
graphical features it just blows the spectrum away,
YOU DON'T SAY! Next, you'll be telling me that the PC has better graphics than an Amiga (which obviously makes it a better machine in every respect known to man ... not).
theyhowever a lot of the
games were designed for the weakest computer so that porting over to different formats would be easier and cheaper
Either that, or many more people made games for the 'weakest' computer because many more people bought, played and enjoyed the games more than
did on other formats?
hence many Amstrad games look
like Spectums dull O' graphics amd don't take advantage of the full 16 colours on screen (more on the PLUS).
Hardly anything in the history of man took advantage of the Amstrad's full potential ... I wonder why that is?
Correct me if I'm wrong?
I did.
cameSo it should, the CPC is a good computer. The only reason the Spectrum
mesecond was due to its larger user base. C64 compared to Spectrum, well to
Butits a hard one, depends on what you looking for in a computer I guess.
can'tCPC against the Spectrum, well the CPC win in every respect, well I
honestly think of one thing that the Spectrum was better at?
Sales?
--in
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littleI think you'll find that there are some who constantly refer to the
You forgot the best one of all "Speculum" lolblack wonder as a "spackdrum". I find it most funny that they can'tspackdrum
actually find a legitimate word that puts it down that rhymes!
rectum
I'm pretty sure that he was seen a few months back with one of the
world's most famous blood-thirsty civilian-killing fascists.
If you're looking for a pic, see this...
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/09/30/sproject.irq.regime.change/rumsfeld.80s.jpg
...although I'm not sure which blood-thirsty civilian-killing fascist
it is. I do get confused.
So, so far, not one single commode user has come up with a decent argumentto
attempt to prove to us that the Commode 64 was actually any good (which it isn't).Crap
So, that must mean, that there is a lot of truth in what I said about it.
games, crap graphics, crap sound, crap design, crap cost (when released).in
I'm utterly stunned it lasted as long as it did!
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You don't understand. This is "tradition" - only Starglider has gone anddone it
a bit differently. The Annual flamewar should start with a crosspost "TheC64
was crap - Discuss" to c.s.c. We then start with petty bickering, untilthe real
techy guys get involved, when we start having some well informed,interesting
arguments about he relative merits of each machine.
It's just fun, really. The last couple were excellent reading.
I may very well be. But I can't judge the Speccy because Holland is a
wealthy country so everybody had C64s in my days.
What? No BBCs? Strange people...
hannibal <hannibal@videocam.net.au> wrote:
go and see what the Commodore can do
I see: it can render a man verbose, dull and incredibly lacking in the
humour department. Oh, and it's crap, btw. Discuss.
Let's look at the evidence:
Slow. A poxy slow processor,
hence the reliance on hardware based sprites to
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown, and really *REALLY* blocky graphics. How
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovely fast
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode? Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chip grating away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???
What
are you all on?
Or are you all tine deaf?
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be the > worst
basic I have ever seen on any computer.
Even typing nothing on it get's that
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode. At least we could type a program in
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for finding > mistakes.
Sales - The commode is dead.
At least Spectrums are still being sold around the
world.
Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could only manage
about 22 million.
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longer to load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, being superbly designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing with huge keys
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype). Spectrum, small, light, powerful!
The Starglider aka Wibble wrote ...
I think you'll find that there are some who constantly refer to the little >>black wonder as a "spackdrum". I find it most funny that they can't >>actually find a legitimate word that puts it down that rhymes!
spackdrum
rectum
"Biggo" <big-go@dplanet.ch> wrote in message >news:1fy7pfd.vqtdr356svifN%big-go@dplanet.ch...
hannibal <hannibal@videocam.net.au> wrote:
go and see what the Commodore can do
I see: it can render a man verbose, dull and incredibly lacking in the
humour department. Oh, and it's crap, btw. Discuss.
Simply unbelievable.
Here someone gave you a point-by-point comparision / contrast between the 64 >and Spectrum yet all you have to offer in exchange is THAT?
Y'know, not only did you Spackdrum lusers LAUNCH this pissing contest, you >Sinclair-heads have YET to tell us WHY the Spectrum is oh so much better
than the 64 - all you guys have done is sling insults. To me, the Spectrum
is and always will be JUST a ZX81 with color - I have owned one in the past, >so I know of what I speak.
On 16 Jul 2003 12:03:36 -0700, hannibal@videocam.net.au (hannibal)
wrote:
Then look at masterpieces like Mayhem in
monsterland, look at the colors (it had new colors on the c64, using
all kinds of tricks), look at the Creatures series, Turrican (have you
guys actually played Turrican on the speccy, it's hillarious)
Turbo Espirt on the 64.
Feud on the 64.
Target Renegade on the 64.
My, how we laughed...
And there you have it. It all comes down to what each user is used to. >Whether it's poking away on a rubber chiclet keyboard or merrily tapping
away on a typewriter-style keyboard... if you're comfortable with it, hey, >why gripe about what the other side uses? If you can't think of anything
nice to say, then just don't say anything!
Now - a historical question - since this is apparently an "annual" >"tradition", I wonder which side has inaugurated more flamewars?
And you haven't yet come up with a single decent argument to prove to us
that the Commodore 64 was actually a bad system at all, other than that it's >your half-baked opinion. Saying "it's crap" over and over doesn't
constitute factual proof - only opinion. :)
But anyway. If we're going to go by Starglider logic, the moon is made of >green cheese and I drove my car to Mars this morning. Since nobody has put
up an argument against this, it must be truth.
"The Starglider" <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message...
So does that mean that he has no valid proof that the C64 wasn't crap???
Hi.
What is a speccy? Sorry for my ignorance, but I never even heard of it. I do remember a time in the 80s where the C64 was intensely popular. When I was at one point consumed in everything C64, I never bothered to notice any other systems because I guess they really weren't contenders in terms of popularity. I do remember the TI-99, the Tandy CRS-80, but they were all garbage. I think you and your speccy are an analogy comparable to OS/2 vs Windows.
Let's say that thing you call speccy or spectrum or whatever the
heck it is, let's say it is better technically, who really cares?
The
leader was always C64, like Windows was over OS/2.
Now go play with your speccy, you little child.
Ok, think of it like this, the Amstrad has one up on the Spectrum due to >graphics, but what is it that the Spectrum has up on the Amstrad? i know
what you saying, like I prefer my CPC more than my Amiga also cause I'm not >too happy about swapping floppies every few seconds for the OS etc. But the >Amiga is surely the better computer overall. Let me know what the Spectrum >has over the Amstrad, then I can die happy or something, lol
Who cares what's better? Use what you like. By the logic some of the people >in this thread are using, your 8-bits are all crap because my P3/1GHZ@1030 >with a GeForce II MX and 256MB of Mushkin RAM at 2-2-2 and a 60GB Maxtor HD >is better than your computers.
I'll go off on that tangent! I thought it was the US dictator that
spouted the total opposite of the truth. You know, the confused Robin
Hood wannabee who robs from the poor to give to the rich.
Here someone gave you a point-by-point comparision / contrast between the 64 and Spectrum yet all you have to offer in exchange is THAT?
you Sinclair-heads have YET to tell us WHY the Spectrum is oh so much better than the 64
Simply unbelievable.
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware basedsprites to
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown,
and really *REALLY* blocky graphics.
My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chip grating
away at some tune.
It's not clean, and you people think that's superior??? What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to bethe worst
basic I have ever seen on any computer.
Even typing nothing on it get's that
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode.
At least we could type a program in
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takeslonger to load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, beingsuperbly
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing withhuge keys
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype).Spectrum,
small, light, powerful!
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:27:30 -0400, "Decimal Cat" <wells@acadia.net>
wrote:
Unless you compare it to my 3.2Ghz P4, with 1Gb RAM, 200Gb Hard drive, Soundblaster Audigy 5.1 Digital soundcard, GeForce FX 256Mg Gfx card and
Who cares what's better? Use what you like. By the logic some of the
people in this thread are using, your 8-bits are all crap because my >>P3/1GHZ@1030 with a GeForce II MX and 256MB of Mushkin RAM at 2-2-2 and a >>60GB Maxtor HD is better than your computers.
DVD writer drive.
Which then makes your computer worse than mine.
On 16 Jul 2003 23:30:20 -0700, spacerogue5@yahoo.com (Vasko Altiparmakov) wrote:
...
Are U refering to ZX Spectrum48 vs C64? HA HA HA HA!
That rubber thing cannot be considered as a computer. What a Troll.
Actually, either the 48k or the 128k, both were well within the lifespan of the
commode 64.
Let's look at the evidence:
Slow. A poxy slow processor,
Wow!
"6502 uses a single clock cycle (the base cycle, plus a cycle rotated[snipped!]
90 degrees out of phase) to generate the timing for four internal
execution stages, so th
Don't bother with the techno-babble. It's already been well proved that even though the 6502 uses less clock cycles, the z80 had better programming methods,
making it easily possible to still outperform the 6502.
I happen to have learned machine code from the book "Z80 & 6502
Machine Code". Have you noticed that 6502 machine instructions execute
in minimum 2, maximum 6 machine cycles, while Z80 machine instructions >execute in minimum 6 (or was it 8?), maximum 20+ machine cycles.
Must've been a crap book then.
hence the reliance on hardware based sprites to
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
I bet you'll say the same thing about procesors in the last 20 years.
"They are all crap. They use FPUs."
Hardware sprites are a great idea, since sprites are common thing.
Not that common anymore. Most gaming designs are slowly adapting to 3D now. And
3D was something the Commode 64 was shite at.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown, and really *REALLY* blocky graphics. How
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovely fast
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode? >> Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chip grating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???
beep, beep! hi hi.
Beep beep, or with Tim Follin, 6 channel sound with various sound waveforms. Or
with the AY, 3 channel "clean" goodness, not that grating awful sound the SID produces.
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
You never had access to the full 64K of RAM, because you don't know
how, i have. It's quite simple, you'll just have to figure out.
No, we dealt with 128k instead, with a 128k machine that was supported, unlike
the total lack of software for the commode 128.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be the > worst
basic I have ever seen on any computer.
Me too. :) Anyway, all old style interpreted Basic on 8-bit computers
are infunctional. You can only play around with it.
Yes, I don't think I should've included that point in the argument, as it is seriously true. Well, you do have the advantage of being able to blame Microsoft
for that one.
Even typing nothing on it get's that
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode. At least we could type a program in
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for finding > mistakes.
Basic? How old are U? 4th grade?
What if you have to type Pascal? You redefine the whole rubberboard?
Er... no, we typed in Pascal. Simple!
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longer to load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
1st you have to find it's position on the tape with your walkman.
I've seen C64 load 64K in 10-20 sec, from disk. Seriosly, you could >understand the advantiges of disk's only if you had one. Even if the
disk is 50 times slower than tape.
that's good to hear. Likewise, I love being able to load 128k into my machine in
about 3-5 seconds from disk.
By that time Apple, Atari and Commodore made 32bit machines, with GUI.
paul s <nospam@nospam.forme> writes:
less money on the computer means more beer money. :-)
The latest computer I spent money to acquire was my Amiga 1200/HDD/1084
for ~$100. The latest computer I bought new was my Amiga 500+ in 1992.
Some days I'm contemplating replacing my 200 MHz PC with something new,
but then I realize I don't have any needs for more processing power, so
I let it be.
It's imposible to type on a rubber keyboard.
I only have heard of 1 chanel beeper noicy sound. Usualy slowing the
rest of the work when playing.
i don't think the Spectrum (48k) can be used mutch, since i don't
think it has implementation for standard i/o ports.
The Starglider <the_starglider2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<k1ichvcvkqrtoberi94mb3n8lhkpo6bijq@4ax.com>...
On 16 Jul 2003 23:30:20 -0700, spacerogue5@yahoo.com (Vasko Altiparmakov)
wrote:
...
Are U refering to ZX Spectrum48 vs C64? HA HA HA HA!
That rubber thing cannot be considered as a computer. What a Troll.
Actually, either the 48k or the 128k, both were well within the lifespan
of the commode 64.
It's silly to se a man working on ZX Spectrum 48. It looks like a
calculator. It's imposible to type on a rubber keyboard. Havent seen
Spectrum 128k, but i am sure it has many advanteges over C64. Simply
it's a machine produced in 1985+, however it has no chance against
A1000.
It's so obvious that the Spectrum isn't a typewriter.
And Jeff wins the award for "Trying to stop a flamewar, but making itworse by
posting binaries to non-binary groups, which is a worse offense".
Is there a real English dictionary there? Or just a yankee one? Bet it doesn't have "Grammer" in it, unless they've started listing actor
surnames.
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:58:57 -0400, "Decimal Cat" <wells@acadia.net>wrote:
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware based spritesto
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown,
and really *REALLY* blocky graphics. How
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!fast
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovely
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode?
Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be theworst
basic I have ever seen on any computer. Even typing nothing on it get'sthat
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode.
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for findingmistakes.
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longerto load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, beingsuperbly
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing with hugekeys
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype).
small, light, powerful!
--
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:58:57 -0400, "Decimal Cat" <wells@acadia.net>wrote:
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware based spritesto
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown,
and really *REALLY* blocky graphics. How
I laugh whenever I see digitised pictures on a commode 64!fast
Crap games - Paradroid Vs. Quazatron. No contest. Carrier Command. Lovely
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the Commode?
Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that's superior???What
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be theworst
basic I have ever seen on any computer. Even typing nothing on it get'sthat
stupid Syntax Error message on the Commode.
basic 15 times faster on the Speccy, with a decent system for findingmistakes.
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longerto load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, beingsuperbly
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing with hugekeys
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype).
small, light, powerful!
--
Let's look at the evidence:
Slow. A poxy slow processor, hence the reliance on hardware based sprites
to make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown, and really *REALLY* blocky
graphics.
Slow. A poxy slow processor,
Wow!
"6502 uses a single clock cycle (the base cycle, plus a cycle rotated
90 degrees out of phase) to generate the timing for four internal
execution stages, so that there were instructions which executed in
one external 'cycle' (this is different from clock-doubling, which
uses a phase-locked-loop to generate a faster internal clock which is synchronised with an external clock). Z80, uses the external clock
directly, so an equivalent instruction would take four cycles, meaning
a 2MHz 6502 would be roughly equivalent to a 8MHz Z80."
I happen to have learned machine code from the book "Z80 & 6502
Machine Code". Have you noticed that 6502 machine instructions execute
in minimum 2, maximum 6 machine cycles, while Z80 machine instructions execute in minimum 6 (or was it 8?), maximum 20+ machine cycles.
hence the reliance on hardware based sprites to
make sure games don't turn out utterly crap.
I bet you'll say the same thing about procesors in the last 20 years.
"They are all crap. They use FPUs."
Hardware sprites are a great idea, since sprites are common thing.
64K Ram - Lies! You never had access to the full 64K of RAM.
You never had access to the full 64K of RAM, because you don't know
how, i have.
It's quite simple, you'll just have to figure out.
Crap Basic - Who's bright idea was it to incluse what I consider to be the > worst
basic I have ever seen on any computer.
Me too. :) Anyway, all old style interpreted Basic on 8-bit computers
are infunctional. You can only play around with it.
Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could only manage about 22 million.
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longer to load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
1st you have to find it's position on the tape with your walkman.
I've seen C64 load 64K in 10-20 sec, from disk. Seriosly, you could understand the advantiges of disk's only if you had one. Even if the
disk is 50 times slower than tape.
Terrible graphics - 15 shades of brown,
16 colors. Wipe the layer of dust off your monitor.
and really *REALLY* blocky graphics. How
Opinion.
3D shaded graphics on the Speccy. What the fuck went wrong on the
Commode?
Can't comment here - but you'll more than likely use my inexperience in
this
area as some way within your fractured mind to "prove" that it's wrong.
Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that'sWhat
superior???
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
<Homer-AngryDad> THAT'S NOT FACT, THAT'S OPINION! </Homer-AngryDad>
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.
Also can't comment here, because I've never seen or heard of a Speccy
here
in the USA. ( Sure. Go ahead and rip on my nationality because I didn't
go
searching for other computers from other countries to use, make yourself
look like even more of an idiot than you already do. )
Loading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes longerto load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Can't argue there - the drives are sluggish, but JiffyDOS fixes that in
no
time.
Cost - the commodes were sold at rip off prices. The speccy, beingsuperbly
designed, meant that it was sold at a fraction of the price.
I for one got a C64 I could easily repair off eBay along with two dead
boards for $1.75 + shipping.
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing withkeys
huge
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype).
Do you have any facts to support your argument, or just opinion?
Spectrum,
small, light, powerful!
--
Not very good as a doorstop, then. Maybe as a flotation device if you
caulked the ports.
Sales, userbase, games, software, expansion. There, I think that's pretty damned
important.
Darren Salt wrote:
I may very well be. But I can't judge the Speccy because Holland is aWhat? No BBCs? Strange people...
wealthy country so everybody had C64s in my days.
Well, one guy did have an Elcorn Electron, claiming it to be superiour to
the C64.
But he bought a C64 when he had the money so he could play games like everybody else.
Software - Assuming you mean software that isn't games, you've gotta be >joking if you think there is more serious stuff for the Spectrum. It
doesn't even have a 40 column mode, never mind an 80 column mode, which
IMO is required to do any serious WP/DTP/Spreadsheets etc.
And expansion. There may be a few extra expansions for the Spectrum, but
my CPC Plus had 576K, 3" floppy, 2x5.25" floppies (with ParaDOS, 800K
DOS), TV Tuner, Light Pen, Speech Synth, Mouse, real keyboard, RGB
display, Multiface II, RAM Drive, Fully populated 8 slot ROM box with
Maxam, Protext etc, etc back in about 1993.
Software - Assuming you mean software that isn't games, you've gotta be >>joking if you think there is more serious stuff for the Spectrum. It >>doesn't even have a 40 column mode, never mind an 80 column mode, which
IMO is required to do any serious WP/DTP/Spreadsheets etc.
No, it had a 64 column mode.
Better technically? :))
It's a useless rubber shit, with no i/o ports.
Have anyone seen RS232 or Centronix on ZX Spectrum?
You can connect C64 on a PLC if you want and make it usefull.
Vasko, since you are so learned, you must realize the fallacies in
this statement: ".. Z80, uses the external clock directly, so an
equivalent instruction would take four cycles, meaning a 2MHz 6502
would be roughly equivalent to a 8MHz Z80". This would be true if the
Z80 was a 6502. The Z80 is not a 6502 and has a very different
instruction set architecture and a very different hardware
architecture. It does not do things the same way a
6502 does them. I would have serious doubts about any book that made
claims like that.
Sales, userbase, games, software, expansion. There, I think that's prettydamned
important.
and really *REALLY* blocky graphics. How
Opinion.
Not opinion. Check games like Uridium (Hewson) on the Commodore and the Spectrum and you'll see the difference.
The fact of the matter is that the Commode wasn't exploited at all, not to mention that it was so difficult to program, you needed to pass Torture Endurance school in order to do it ;-)
Sound - My god. My ears bleed every time I hear that damned SID chipgrating
away at some tune. It's not clean, and you people think that'sWhat
superior???
are you all on? Or are you all tine deaf?
<Homer-AngryDad> THAT'S NOT FACT, THAT'S OPINION! </Homer-AngryDad>
Here I have to agree I liked the SID pretty much, although it was only
REALLY audible with an external amp. The fact of the matter is that it is
so midrange it sounds like a Rockman guitar effect... Without a decent
Aural Exciter/Equalizer you can't really hear anything out of it.
Sales - The commode is dead. At least Spectrums are still being soldaround the
world. Speccy sales now up to about 25 million. The commode could onlymanage
about 22 million.
Also can't comment here, because I've never seen or heard of a Speccy
here
in the USA. ( Sure. Go ahead and rip on my nationality because I didn't
go
searching for other computers from other countries to use, make yourself look like even more of an idiot than you already do. )
That's because you weren't probably involved in computing around 82-83.
The Spectrum did sell in the US under the Timex/Sinclair badge. The US
model (TS 2068) had also 64K ram and better graphics (and colors) than the Commode.
longerLoading times - Oh how I laugh when your commode disk drive takes
standardto load
a program than it does to load a program by cassette on the speccy.
Can't argue there - the drives are sluggish, but JiffyDOS fixes that in
no
time.
You try a Disciple/PlusD disk i/f on the Speccy, you'll see even
Turbocharged the C64 can't even come close.
The fact is that the C64 speedloaders on tape were slower than the
Spectrum load routines :-)tape
Oh and by the way, in order to make a PERFECT backup of almost any C64
is to feed it thru a Spectrum Mic->Ear port. Perfect C64 backups all the
time (Did it for many friends with C64s back in the day). The cost of
buying a Spectrum to do so, was cheaper than any decent C64 copier ;-)
Looks - let's face it, the commode was ugly. A huge beige thing withkeys
huge
(required for your neanderthal fingers so you wouldn't mistype).
Do you have any facts to support your argument, or just opinion?
Hehe you're quasi right here. The keyboard was okay however the damn thing looks like a donut that sits in the bottom of the pile at Walmart ;-)
Spectrum,
small, light, powerful!
--
Not very good as a doorstop, then. Maybe as a flotation device if you caulked the ports.
Depends. You forget that in Europe doors are real and not flimsy cardboard ;-) (Been there I was amazed) (also most of the time, walls are walls and
not stupid #$@%@#%@#%@# drywall... ). So to effectively stop that door you need something of massive proportions like the C64 ;-)
Hi Sinclair,
You seem fairly reasonable, unlike a lot of the others from both sides
that
posted in this thread. It's like I've always said, I don't think the
Speccy
is a bad computer - I CAN'T say that, because I've never even seen one. I guess I'll have to grab an emulator one of these days. . I just take
offense
to Starglider insulting it for no other reason than to start a pointless flamewar.
*snip*
I will, if I ever get around to checking out a Speccy emulator. But the VIC-II chip was still fairly impressive for it's time, especially
considering that according to Bil Herd, it was hand-designed by their engineers.
You might want to try out one of the high-level languages written for it sometime. I'll admit the BASIC language is a bit. . well. . archaic. They didn't change much of it from the VIC-20, from what I saw. The biggest headache this ever gave me in programming was that there were no "read
disk
directory" or "read error channel" commands in native basic, but a few subroutines at the bottom of the program solved that.
I don't know if you have a real C64 from which to judge this from, but
the
rudimentary audio amp circuit for the SID may be bad - in all my tests,
the
SID gave pretty good volume with or without an amp when inside a C64.
8580
SID, or 6581 SID? (Usually a difference of whether you've got the older breadbin style, or the 64C, the more streamlined model. )
Well, I would've been involved in computing then, but, see. . in 82 I
wasn't
born yet, and in 83 I was 1.
Hmm. . interesting.
Out of curiousity, have their been any hard drive interfaces made for the Speccy? We have a couple (IDE64, CMD commercial), and they're both way
faster than the regular floppy drives. Because of the obvious limitations
of
tape/floppy drives now, a lot of us use hard drives.
The newer model, the 64C that I mentioned above looked better and had a
more
ergonomic design.
Duh! of course he's got something to do with a dictator!No this is where you go off on a tangent about dictators... I mentioned >theThe Iraqi Information Minister has nothing to do with dictators? Eh?
Iraqi info minister because he spouts the total opposite of truth, like >you
flamers do... Has nothing to do with dictators...
I'm pretty sure that he was seen a few months back with one of the
world's most famous blood-thirsty civilian-killing fascists.
If you're looking for a pic, see this... >>http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/09/30/sproject.irq.regime.change/rumsfeld.80s.jpg
...although I'm not sure which blood-thirsty civilian-killing fascist
it is. I do get confused.
You've taken what
I've said out of context. Biggo was talking about dictators, when I was only >referring to the info minister. But you knew that anyway didn't you... >Pedant.
Is that e-mail address part of a permanent AOL account? I mean, I knowI was with freeserve dial-up for a few years, until recently.
loads of people who have used AOL, I first started out with it. You
know, just about everyone messes around with the "X hours free!" demo
they get, then they cancel the service and move to a real ISP.
I see no real reason to use AOL unless you like big bright colours andWanna reason? It's FREE broadband for a year! Sure it's shit, but it does
pop-ups.
the job...
Try RealSpec which emulates even the ZX Spectrum +3e (a nice mod with Hard >drive :-)
.... There were program loaders around 95 that defeated that....
prettySales, userbase, games, software, expansion. There, I think that's
damned
important.
Sales... ya, Userbase... ya...... games... ya but only for game released
1984 and before.
Software? No way ,the CPC has more software, especially
serious stuff
oh and CP/M. Expansion? Nah I don't think so but of course it
not so clear cut these days.
Software? No way ,the CPC has more software, especially
serious stuff
But who ever used it?
Have anyone seen RS232 or Centronix on ZX Spectrum? [...]
hannibal@videocam.net.au (hannibal) wrote in messagenews:<4f35449c.0307161103.1dd921e@posting.google.com>...
older games. Look at how Green Beret was on C64 and how dull and
colorless was in the Speccy.
Funny that eh? I think the Sperctrum version of Green Beret is miles
better than the C64 version. I prefer the detailed graphics to
low-res and colourful. Different strokes for different folks I
suppose.
Better technically? :))
It's a useless rubber shit, with no i/o ports.
Have anyone seen RS232 or Centronix on ZX Spectrum?
Is there a real English dictionary there? Or just a yankee one? Bet it doesn't have "Grammer" in it, unless they've started listing actor surnames.
Busted... <grin>
Software? No way ,the CPC has more software, especially
serious stuff
But who ever used it?
spacerogue5@yahoo.com (Vasko Altiparmakov) wrote in message news:<b052b774.0307162230.4b2ad893@posting.google.com>...
Vasko, since you are so learned, you must realize the fallacies in
this statement: ".. Z80, uses the external clock directly, so an
equivalent instruction would take four cycles, meaning a 2MHz 6502
would be roughly equivalent to a 8MHz Z80". This would be true if the
Z80 was a 6502.
The Z80 is not a 6502 and has a very different
instruction set architecture and a very different hardware
architecture.
It does not do things the same way a
6502 does them. I would have serious doubts about any book that made
claims like that.
A past flamewar found that a 1 MHz 6502 is roughly equivalent to a 2
MHz Z80.
In my opinion this is being very kind to the 6502. Included
among the examples used to derive this figure was a BCD accumulator.
BCD arithmetic is nearly useless in the grand scheme of things and
since the 6502 has a BCD 'mode', it managed to perform well in that particular instance;
no comparison was made for BCD
multiplications/divisions for which the Z80 has special instructions.
Not enough emphasis was placed on real algorithms that access main
memory, which the Z80 is much quicker at than a 6502 and which would
have a large impact on cpu performance. For a 6502 to operate at this
2:1 ratio, it must also use absolute zero page addressing, which I
suppose is fine and good for apps that take control of the system and
are written by one person.
Using this 2:1 ratio, the original Spectrum is 75% faster than a C64.
Minimum 4 cycles. Programmers use 4-cycle instructions and 7-cycle
memory access instructions predominantly and only use 20+ cycle
instructions on rare occasions.
In the old days, the maximum speed
6502 available was 2MHz, versus an 8MHz Z80. The plain Z80 has since
been upgraded to 20MHz;
I don't know if they bothered to move the 6502
to a more modern process.
There are good reasons why the Z80 became the dominant 8-bit general
purpose cpu back in the day (have I managed to exclude the 8051
here?). It was more suitable for "real systems", be it embedded or
high-end computing due to a number of factors including: availability
of a comprehensive set of quality peripheral chips, ease of
interfacing, speed and an ISA that supported code sharing, fast task switching and up to 128 peripherals without degrading performance.
The 6502's main attraction was on price.
When it first came out at
$25, competitor processors were selling at $180.
Hardware sprites are great if you don't have the power to do it in
software.
But if there is the choice, it is ALWAYS better to do it in
software.
Z80 programs are half the size of 6502 programs. Should be able to
spot that one in your book :-)
There is a fundamental difference in the original purpose of the C64
and the Spectrum.
The C64 is clearly a game computer;
Basic or any
kind of introduction to computing is secondary.
The primary purpose
of the Spectrum is an introduction to computing, hence some effort was
put into incorporating a decent version of Basic, providing syntax
checking on every line entered for novice programmers, and supplying one-touch key entry since no one at that time could type.
In truth it's very hard to estimate Spectrum sales. Some 2 dozen
Spectrum variants, authorized clones and illegal clones have been made
around the world, with very large followings in the UK, Portugal,
Spain and all the eastern block countries.
I wouldn't be surprised if
Spectrum sales topped 20 million but I wouldn't wager that they passed
C64 sales, simply because the Spectrum did not exist in the American
market for more than 4 months (during which time 160,000 units sold).
What makes it close is that the Spectrum was dominant in the Soviet
Union.
You have to admit the 64 had some of the worst peripherals of all the
8 bits.
They also cost the most. I would rather have tape than a
$200+ disk system that performed worse than tape.
But you are right,
most people forked over the extra $ for a fastload cartridge to fix
the hardware bugs.
Even then, the disk drive only performed as well
as a stringy floppy.
Personally, I had/have a disk system with DD 5.25" and 3.5" drives.
Transfer rate is 250kbps, if I remember right (it's been a while)
which allows the loading of memory snapshots in a couple of seconds, including access time.
Cheers,
Alvin
Vasko,
I appreciate that you slapped the butt of this uneducated, poor fellow with your well-founded arguments. But still, this guy is a troll, probably a 30 year old frustrated programmer that pretends to be 12 just to revive a
stupid flamewar tradition (or the more I think about it, he's probably not doing it for traditions sake). All I can say is: Don't feed the troll. ;-)
Regards,
Steppe
The worse however disadvantage of the C64 was that it forced you to do several things a certain way, while the Speccy was extremely open.Moreover
due to the "British school" of programming (ie if the program doesn'tfit
the machine... MAKE it fit as opposed to the now predominant "American school" of programming which says if the program doesn't fit themachine
BUY a BIGGER machine) programmers squeezed out of the Spectrum eventhings
the designers couldn't fathom that were possible! Ie Karnov (anyonecomputer
remembers that coin-op conversion?). Or three-channel sound from a
WITHOUT a dedicated sound chip!
big-go@dplanet.ch (Biggo) writes:
It's so obvious that the Spectrum isn't a typewriter.
"The reason we didn't look for a word processor was that we thought
the Spectrum has as much use for one as a fish has use for a bicycle."
Flame wars aren't objective.
Using this 2:1 ratio, the original Spectrum is 75% faster than a C64.
It may be, but it is usless.
C64 is a
computer. You can load Pascal if you like, or some new OS's made by anthusiast. You can load GEOS, a GUI. Most important of all you can interconect with other other pheriperials and machines to crosstalk.
All the words on the keyboard
look silly, especialy if you put some other hi-level lang.
You have to admit the 64 had some of the worst peripherals of all the
8 bits.
They're not bad. C64's serial bus protocols speed was bad.
They also cost the most. I would rather have tape than a
$200+ disk system that performed worse than tape.
That's because you can't have a standard 5.25" or 3.5" disc drive on
the ZX.
The speed of 5.25" disk drive is <= of the tape with turbo program.
If you load a turbo program for the disk drive, it is uncomparable.
Personally, I had/have a disk system with DD 5.25" and 3.5" drives. Transfer rate is 250kbps, if I remember right (it's been a while)
which allows the loading of memory snapshots in a couple of seconds, including access time.
Was it on a ZX Spectrum 48k?
big-go@dplanet.ch (Biggo) writes:
It's so obvious that the Spectrum isn't a typewriter.
But you have word processor(s), at least the Tasword series. A magazine reviewing word processors on various computers ignored looking for one
on the Spectrum, but a few issues later had to recapitulate after
finding Tasword. Approximate apology quote:
"The reason we didn't look for a word processor was that we thought
the Spectrum has as much use for one as a fish has use for a bicycle."
"Steppe" <steppe_not_for@spam_demodungeon.com> wrote in message news:<3f16917b$1@news.nefonline.de>...
Vasko,
I appreciate that you slapped the butt of this uneducated, poor fellow with >> your well-founded arguments. But still, this guy is a troll, probably a 30 >> year old frustrated programmer that pretends to be 12 just to revive a
stupid flamewar tradition (or the more I think about it, he's probably not >> doing it for traditions sake). All I can say is: Don't feed the troll. ;-) >>
Regards,
Steppe
I feel shtupid about feeding the trolls and have noticed that nobody
else does. That 1st post left me so amazed that i reacted instantly,
but in a comic way more than serious. I havent seen this kind of
arguing since primary school.
due to the "British school" of programming (ie if the program doesn't fit
the machine... MAKE it fit as opposed to the now predominant "American school" of programming which says if the program doesn't fit the machine
BUY a BIGGER machine)
programmers squeezed out of the Spectrum even things
the designers couldn't fathom that were possible!
I've always felt 64ers were lazy because of
the dedicated hardware instead of being excited about all the
marvellous things they could force it to do.
Again an opinion based on ignorance.You should take a look at the demos
which take the C64 way beyond what it is designed to be able to do.
In this respect the Spectrum and C64 scenes are quite similar,
both have fun trying to squeeze most out of the hardware they have.
Then you haven't been following the C64 demo scene.
Some of the demos
let the VIC and SID chips do things that are way beyond what its
designers could have ever dreamed of. After watching those demos I'm
often left wondering how they pulled that effect off (what the
hell...the VIC chip can't do that....?)
Surprisingly (or maybe not) most of the critisism Spectrum users have on
the C64 is based on misconceptions or just plain ignorance.
--
Peter van Merkerk
peter.van.merkerk(at)dse.nl
I know. I never saw any of those techniques used in a game orcommercial
program, though. Enthusiasts are *never* lazy. Official programmersused
the C64 at its worst.
It's like if every program on the Spectrum was
written in BASIC. On a Spectrum, you *had* to take the machine to its
limits. (See another thread somewhere for the theory of the "British
way" and "American way").
In this respect the Spectrum and C64 scenes are quite similar,
both have fun trying to squeeze most out of the hardware they have.
Yep.
to itsThen you haven't been following the C64 demo scene.
What lately? Of course we haven't. It's a pity no one pushed the C64
limits when it was still for sale in the shops.
I know. I never saw any of those techniques used in a game orcommercial
program, though. Enthusiasts are *never* lazy. Official programmersused
the C64 at its worst.
I think that is a gross generalization. Of course there was plenty of >commercial crap for the C64 that barely touched its potential. Then
again there was also quite a few commercial software titles that did use
at least some of those techniques. Popular techniques like opening up
the borders (which commodore claimed to be impossible) and sprite >multiplexing were commonly used in commercial games. Other techniques
weren't too practical in games, some consume too many CPU cycles, others
are too timing sensitive so it would not work on NTSC or PAL versions of
the C64. Another reason is that the C64 programmers didn't _have_ to
rely on undocumented or complicated techniques to obtain acceptable
graphics and sound. On the other hand they did have to deal with the
6502 which is (as Speccy fans are eager to point out) a bit of kludge >compared to programming a Z80.
The Annual C64 Vs. Spectrum - regular as clockwork!
There are unofficial graphics modes (FLI) which allow you to use 2
colors in a 8x1 pixel block in hires mode, effectively increasing the
color resolution by 8. However these modes require a lot of processor
cycles, and I have never seen them used in actual games. I've heard that >there is something similar for the spectrum, but that that was a
hardware solution.
Anyway, unlike screenshots from some C64 games/demos, I haven't seen
really impressive screenshots from Spectrum games/demos. I'm still
inclined to believe that a C64 pushed to its limits can do better than a >Spectrum pushed to its limits in the graphics department.
Here I have to agree I liked the SID pretty much, although it was onlyis
REALLY audible with an external amp. The fact of the matter is that it
so midrange it sounds like a Rockman guitar effect... Without a decent
Aural Exciter/Equalizer you can't really hear anything out of it.
You should visit a doctor, your hearing has been impaired by that
spectrum beeper
I think this would be a good time to mention http://www.zxdemo.org/item.php?id=4801 ...
(The fact that the C64 has a huge community devoted to remaking theclassic
tracks with proper instruments is the real giveaway, though :-) )
Anyway, unlike screenshots from some C64 games/demos, I haven't seen
really impressive screenshots from Spectrum games/demos. I'm still
inclined to believe that a C64 pushed to its limits can do better than a >Spectrum pushed to its limits in the graphics department.
I think this would be a good time to mention http://www.zxdemo.org/item.php?id=4801 ...
it'sHere I have to agree I liked the SID pretty much, although it was onlyis
REALLY audible with an external amp. The fact of the matter is that it
so midrange it sounds like a Rockman guitar effect... Without a decent
Aural Exciter/Equalizer you can't really hear anything out of it.
You should visit a doctor, your hearing has been impaired by that
spectrum beeper
Well, personal taste and all that, but my experience of the SID is that
good for squeally guitar effects and not much else. I doubt I could stand listening to an entire album of SID noise (and I've been to enough cross- platform demo parties to know...) - whereas the AY/YM chips have projectslike
(blatant plug alert!) http://ayriders.zxdemo.org/ devoted to them. Isthere
anything similar for the SID? I'm not aware of it.
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